Debates of Oct. 20th, 2005

This is page numbers 413 - 448 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was communities .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Speaker's Ruling

Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Fasd Conference

NWT Games Program

Small Business Week (october 16-22)

Energy Efficient Building Designs

Effect Of Rising Fuel Costs On Traditional Lifestyle

Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Subsidies To Counter Rising Fuel Costs

Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Surplus Hydroelectric Power

Smart Energy Solutions

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Liard River Ferry Crossing Labour Dispute

Addressing The High Cost Of Living

Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

GNWT Vehicle Replacement Policy

Harvester Assistance Programs

Control Of Energy Resources

Written Question 16-15(4): Assistance To Hunters And Trappers

Revert To Item 7: Oral Questions

Liard River Ferry Crossing Labour Dispute

Fuel Tax Relief For Registered Hunters And Trappers

Regional Superintendents For The Sahtu Region

Responsibility For Labour Legislation

Financial Administration Manual Directive 302

Federal Socio-economic Impact Funding

Liard River Ferry Crossing Labour Dispute

Liard River Ferry Crossing Labour Dispute

Food Mail Program Pilot Project

Fort Liard Community Housing Project

Beverage Container Recovery Program

GNWT Vehicle Replacement Policies

Fort Good Hope Water Quality

Tabled Document 45-15(4): From The Ground Up: NWT Housing Corporation 2004-2005 Annual Report

Tabled Document 46-15(4): Status Of Women Council Press Release Regarding The Fort Smith Childcare Facility

Tabled Document 47-15(4): Status Of Women Council History Of Issues Related To Childcare

Tabled Document 48-15(4): Sahtu Divisional Education Council Letter Regarding The Colville Lake School

Tabled Document 49-15(4): Arctic Co-operatives Ltd. Letter Regarding The Beverage Container Recycling Program

Tabled Document 50-15(4): Report Of The Chief Electoral Officer On The North Slave By-election

Bill 13:

An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act

Bill 14: Public Airports Act

Bill 16: Tobacco Control Act

Bill 17:

An Act To Amend The Public Colleges Act

Bill 12:

An Act To Amend The Territorial Court Act

Bill 15: Court Security Act

National Day Of Healing And Reconciliation

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 5:

An Act To Amend The Judicature Act

Bill 7: Personal Directives Act

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 1: Prayer

Page 413

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, Members. Welcome back to the House. Before we begin, I will now provide my ruling on the point of order raised by the Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee , yesterday during oral question period.

Ms. Lee rose alleging that earlier, during oral questions, the Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen , contravened Rule 23(c), (h), (i), (j), (

k) and (m).

Firstly, Ms. Lee alleged that in referencing a previous decision to close the Dene K'onia facility, Mrs. Groenewegen contravened Rule 23(

c) in rising on a matter that had been decided by the House during the current session. On this point, I find that there is no point of order since the matter had been considered and decided during the budget debate of the Third Session and we are now in the Fourth Session.

With respect to the matter of 23(h), alleging against a Member; 23(i), imputes false or hidden motives; 23(j), uttering deliberate falsehood; 23(k), using abusive or insulting language; and 23(m), offending the practices and precedent of the Assembly, your Chair will deal with these together.

To establish the context of Ms. Lee 's point of order, I will quote Mrs. Groenewegen 's comments from page 875 of unedited Hansard in her question to the Honourable Brendan Bell , Minister of Justice , "Would the Minister of Justice consider reopening the Dene K'onia Young Offenders' Facility? I maintain to you today that if we had an ounce of support from the Yellowknife MLAs to keep the Dene K'onia operating for all these same reasons, we wouldn't be having this discussion today." Before we go any further, I will rule no, that the Member for Range Lake does not have a point of order under rules 23(h), 23(j), 23(

k) or 23(m). I find no explicit allegation, charge of uttering a falsehood, abusive language, or an offence against the practices and traditions of the House in these statements. The question remains, however, whether Mrs. Groenewegen 's comments constituted an imputation of motive on the part of the Yellowknife MLAs.

First, your Chair is not interested in whether there was support or not from Members of any previous question before the House or any Member's perception of support or non-support. The question before the Chair is whether Mrs. Groenewegen 's comments bring in the motives of other Members.

In allowing debate to the point of order, Mrs. Groenewegen attempted to clarify her comments. I refer

to page 911 of unedited Hansard, where Mrs. Groenewegen explains, "I am saying if we had, and if that had affected the decision, I am saying we would not be having this discussion today, because we wouldn't have an empty building to be moving TTC into." Your Chair finds these remarks helpful in determining that the honourable Member for Hay River South did not intend to impute motives in this matter and, therefore, on the final matter of Rule 23(i), I find the Member for Range Lake does not have a point of order.

I would like to thank those Members who shared their thoughts during the debate on the point of order. It serves to illustrate that during the often highly charged proceedings of this House, there are often conflicting opinions, points of view and

interpretation of what is said and done. Your Chair recognizes this fact of parliamentary life, and I encourage all Members to recognize it, as well.

Colleagues, with your indulgence, I would also like to take this opportunity to make a comment on the use of question period generally. Given what I have observed over the past few days, question period, Members, is not an opportunity for debate. It is a forum for seeking information from the government. It disturbs me that, increasingly, Members are using

preambles to questions to make statements, argue points of view, comment on other Members' references, and generally debate the merits of one position or another.

While your Chair has been lenient and permitted a great deal of latitude in allowing meaningful public debate, the result, as illustrated by Ms. Lee 's feeling on a need to rise on a point of order, is not in the best interest of the House or the people that we serve. I don't have to remind Members that the public does pay attention to the debates in this House. Our rules are in place to ensure the dignity and the importance of the work done here. Therefore, I will ask all Members to use question period in the manner intended, and to review the rules and guidelines we have in place and conduct yourselves accordingly. Thank you, Members, for your attention.

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 45-15(4): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 413

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to provide an update on the negotiations for the Devolution and Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement.

Mr. Speaker, it is important that we continue to focus our attention on the benefits from resource development that should flow to the Northwest Territories to address the immediate pressure and impacts resource development is

having on our communities. We remain of the view that the long-term solution to this issue is the negotiation of a fair devolution agreement that provides NWT governments with the resources and authorities to mitigate these impacts.

It is for this reason we believe that northern control of northern resources is the principle at the heart of our participation in the Northern Strategy. Any effective, sustainable strategy for the North must be based on the transfer of responsibility for northern lands and resources from the federal government to northern governments. Equally important, this transfer must be accompanied by an agreement that makes northern governments the primary beneficiaries of the revenues generated by these northern resources.

After the last formal negotiating session last spring, several issues remained outstanding, the most important being the language describing net fiscal benefits in the agreement-in-principle. A resolution to this issue has been made particularly difficult, given the position taken by the federal government that a final determination on this matter cannot be reached until the Expert Panel on Equalization and Territorial Formula Financing has issued its report.

As I noted in the sessional statement, it is for this reason that we worked, over the summer, to ensure the expert panel and the Panel on Fiscal Imbalance established by the Council of the Federation fully understood our views on the fiscal issues facing the Northwest Territories. We expect both panels will make recommendations on the treatment of resource revenues for provinces and territories, recommendations that will profoundly impact on devolution negotiations.

Mr. Speaker, we have also been working to resolve the remaining issues frustrating the negotiating process with federal Ministers. Since last spring, Minister Roland , Minister Bell and I have met with the Deputy Prime Minister and other federal Ministers. At my last meeting with the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, the Honourable Andy Scott, at the end of September, I proposed a number of potential solutions to resolve the remaining issues and move us toward an AIP. Minister Scott agreed to consider these proposals as a basis for resuming negotiations, and promised to respond to us in the near future.

It is our hope that the federal government will respond in a positive manner and honour the commitment made by the Prime Minister to reach an AIP this year and a final agreement in 2006.

Over the summer months, I also had the opportunity to meet individually and collectively with aboriginal leaders to discuss these negotiations. We agreed to continue to work together to seek resolution of the outstanding issues in a collaborative way, resulting in a fair and equitable deal for the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, a Devolution and Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement is a crucial element to the continued development of the Northwest Territories and to increase investment in critically needed programs in our communities. It is a goal we must continue to work toward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 45-15(4): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 414

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 46-15(4): Fasd Conference

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 414

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. FASD is a lifelong disability. Early diagnosis, supportive environments and a range of special supports and services are necessary to assist individuals and their families in their journey toward self-reliance and well-being.

Today and tomorrow, the Department of Health and Social Services is hosting an NWT Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder Conference in Yellowknife.

The theme for the conference is, Diagnosis: Creating a Path for a Healthy Future. Leading national specialists in the field of FASD, as well as northern FASD experts, will be giving presentations related to FASD diagnosis. The conference has over 75 participants, with representatives from every region in the NWT. The participants include a wide range of health and social services professionals including, among others, social workers, nurses, physicians, NGOs, counsellors, early childhood consultants, school principals and community justice workers.

The conference will focus on sharing information about the Canadian FASD diagnostic guidelines. We want to increase awareness of these guidelines and the necessity for diagnostic and community teams to address the needs of children and their families.

Through a number of break-out working sessions during the conference, participants will be able to provide input to determine what we need to do to utilize the guidelines, what the challenges will be, and how we will apply these guidelines in smaller community settings.

This conference will analyze different program models from across Canada. Participants will examine all levels of services from public health nurses to early learning, and from childcare consultants to NGO support providers. At the end of the conference, direction will be provided for the development of FASD teams and a communication mechanism to keep people informed.

As a member of the Canada Northwest Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder Partnership, I recently met with the Ministers from Alberta, British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nunavut and Yukon in Calgary. The partnership is an alliance of seven jurisdictions working toward the development and promotion of an inter-provincial/territorial approach to prevention, intervention, care and support of individuals affected by FASD. At the meeting in Calgary, we discussed the progress and development of the Canada Northwest FASD Research Network and the need for more collaboration between the federal government and the partnership jurisdictions.

This weekend, the Canada Northwest FASD Research Network is conducting a research forum in Yellowknife, initiating a research network to promote the development of evidence-based practices in supporting adolescents and adults with FASD. This is the final of three forums that the network has been conducting this fall; the previous two took place in Winnipeg and Calgary in September. Approximately 35 participants will engage in

the discussions related to FASD research with representatives from each of the seven jurisdictions of the partnership, including physicians, psychologists, researchers and those who work in the areas of social services, justice, FASD and mental health.

Mr. Speaker, solutions lie in the networks of community supports available to at-risk women and their families, and we believe that every community can make the commitment to the next generation of children so that every baby in the NWT has the potential to enjoy a healthy life. We are committed to preventing FASD in our territory. It is an important task and, with conferences such as this, we are working together to achieve this goal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 46-15(4): Fasd Conference

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 415

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod.

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Minister's Statement 47-15(4): NWT Games Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 415

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to provide Members with an update today on the NWT Games Program. As Members will recall, the first NWT Winter Games were held earlier this year in Fort Smith, from March 18th to 21st. The first NWT Summer Games followed in Inuvik, from July 8th to 10th.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to share some of the highlights from these events:

• In total, there were 28 of 33 communities represented at both games.

• In Fort Smith, a total of 257 youth and coaches participated. In Inuvik, the number increased to 272.

• Fort Smith featured 17 events, including curling, cross-country skiing, speed skating, biathlon, tae kwon do and gymnastics. The Inuvik games included 16 different activities, including trap shooting, swimming, canoeing, softball, tennis, lacrosse, wrestling and more. Both events included Dene and Inuit games.

• As part of the cultural component, the Fort Smith hosts arranged sessions on making medicine bags and carving, and in Inuvik, the host community welcomed the Fort Good Hope Drummers, who performed over the weekend, and held sessions on beading and drumming.

• Fort Smith wowed the participants with a tobogganing party that included fireworks and a bonfire. In Inuvik, a major highlight was the recently opened Family Aquatic Centre. For many youth, this was a real treat.

Mr. Speaker, the primary objective of the NWT Games Program is to create opportunities for youth to participate in a multi-sport event, and encourage them to make healthy choices, such as getting involved in sport and physical activity.

Mr. Speaker, events like the NWT Games are not possible without contributions from a large number of people, and I would like to publicly recognize the following:

• all members of the Legislative Assembly; in particular, my colleagues who were able to attend both events;

• the Honourable Stephen Owen, Minister of State for Sport, and the Honourable Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Western Arctic Member of Parliament, for their support and contribution;

• volunteers and staff of the Sport North Federation, who were responsible for managing the program, and who had a significant presence at both events;

• Municipal and Community Affairs staff from all regions, who supported both games through a significant contribution of time and effort;

• the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic, the Mackenzie Recreation Association, and the Beaufort-Delta Sahtu Recreation Association, for their collective support;

• the departments of Health and Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment, for funding support and assistance with healthy choices events that took place;

• finally, and most importantly, the volunteers in Fort Smith and Inuvik, who took on the monumental challenge of staging these incredible events, and for giving our youth the experience of a lifetime.

Mr. Speaker, now that these two events are completed, Municipal and Community Affairs is conducting an evaluation to assist in discussions with Sport Canada on future initiatives, and for consideration in our own long-term sport and recreation planning. Once this evaluation is completed, I will report back to the Members with an update on the long-term plans for the games. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 47-15(4): NWT Games Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 415

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Minister's Statement 48-15(4): Small Business Week (october 16-22)

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 415

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is Small Business Week in Canada. Since its inception in 1979, Small Business Week has become a nation-wide celebration of entrepreneurship, organized by the Business Development Bank of Canada.

This year's theme is: "You're the Power Behind the Canadian Economy, Let's Share the Energy!"

Entrepreneurs have become the primary driving force behind our national economy by identifying and supplying market demands, responding to change, and being prepared to take risks. Nowhere, Mr. Speaker, is this

more apparent than here in the Northwest Territories, where 91 percent of our business community have annual sales under $1 million.

These small businesses are the foundation of our smallest and vibrant sectors, and key components of our emergence as a leader in resource exploration and development.

I would like to pay tribute today to the men and women who, as northern entrepreneurs, are transforming their ideas into solid business plans and providing the energy and innovation to fuel our competitive and prosperous northern business environment.

Our tourism industry, Mr. Speaker, is a prime example: built almost entirely on the commitment, hard work and endurance of small enterprises and their owner/operators.

The Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, through its support of the NWT Business Development and Investment Corporation, and the Canada/NWT Business Service Centre, is committed to supporting and promoting small business in the NWT. We recognize small business is, and will continue to be, the backbone in the development and diversification of our rapidly growing northern economy.

The NWT Business Development and Investment Corporation facilitates access to capital for small businesses in the NWT by promoting business financial programs and assistance available from the GNWT, other governments, government agencies and the private market.

The Canada/NWT Business Service Centre offers a combination of products, services, publications and expert referrals to help clients get current and comprehensive business information on a wide range of topics, such as writing a business plan, starting a business, finding new markets and preparing for exporting.

Together, we are working to build a prosperous, diverse and sustainable business environment for the benefit of all residents of the Northwest Territories.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 48-15(4): Small Business Week (october 16-22)

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 416

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Energy Efficient Building Designs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 416

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in this session, Mr. Speaker, I started off with a statement on energy related issues, and I would like to continue on that same theme today. In fact, it was just today, at noon hour, that I had the pleasure of, at the invitation of the NWT Architects' Association, having a brief discussion with them about energy related issues. They are having a work-up here in Yellowknife, on best energy practices in designing northern buildings.

Mr. Speaker, this organization is made up of professionals in the design, architecture and engineering practices from both the public and the private sectors. They have years of good work behind them in designing and building structures here in the NWT. Something that I have learned more about, and this Assembly should be paying a lot more attention to, is not just how to build a building so that it looks good and functions well, but that in the years that it will be up and running, we are paying attention very closely to the lifecycle operating costs of that.

It is politically expedient in this environment, Mr. Speaker, to want to build something big, build it quick, and take advantage of maybe being there to help cut the ribbon and take the credit for it. But we have got to be much more cognizant of stepping back and making sure that the departments and agencies include our boards and agencies in this, because they are big consumers of building space and utilities. They have got to be incorporating the very best practices in building design and operating costs.

One of the messages that the architects would have for us, Mr. Speaker, is that, in the NWT, if we had incorporated best building practices and technology for everything we built in the last five years, we could have saved enough money to build a whole school. If we add about five percent on to the upfront costs of putting up a building, it will pay for itself many times over.

Mr. Speaker, we need to look at policy and, potentially, legislation to help reinforce what is already going on in our design and build world. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Energy Efficient Building Designs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 416

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Effect Of Rising Fuel Costs On Traditional Lifestyle

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 416

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to speak about the effects of the rising energy costs on the lifestyle that this territory and this country was built on. That lifestyle I am speaking about, Mr. Speaker, is our ability to continue to live a traditional lifestyle. We still have many people in the NWT who continue to try to live off the land. Even with the cost of everything going up, residents will still continue to go out and live on the land, because it is just the way of life in the NWT. Fur harvesters are still trying to earn some kind of living by trapping.

People go to whaling camps, go fishing, and continue a tradition that has been carried on for generations. Not much is going to prevent these harvesters from trying to earn a living off the land, Mr. Speaker.

When all the harvesters return to their communities, now they have to contend with the high cost of fuel to heat their homes, and the high cost of power and food. There was a time when it was cheaper to go out on the land to harvest for food. Now it costs less to go to the grocery store and buy pork chops. The former RWED had some good programs to help the trappers with the fur harvest industry. But more needs to be done with all the harvesters who are battling the high cost of living. All they want, Mr. Speaker, is a chance to be a little more independent. They are not looking for handouts; they just want a good break.

We live in a territory that is absolutely rich with resources, yet people in Inuvik probably paid more for natural gas than southern Canada would have to when the gas is shipped there. Now it is time for this government to share some of these rich resources with the people of the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Effect Of Rising Fuel Costs On Traditional Lifestyle

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 417

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 417

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

(Translation) Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I am concerned about the welfare of hunters and trappers in my region. Because of the rise in fuel costs in my region, hunters and trappers are finding it very difficult to continue their long-standing way of life.

Mr. Speaker, hunting and trapping is not a hobby; it is a way of life for aboriginal people. It is a way of life that has been seriously threatened by resource development, climate change, the missing caribou herds and, most recently, the price of fuel. Gas prices have gone up so high, it is putting the cost of hunting and trapping in jeopardy. The cost of living is constantly rising and is very difficult.

Mr. Speaker, as a provider of food, the farmers are very important to the development of civilization. In other provinces, like Alberta, farmers get tax breaks on fuel they use for farm equipment. Mr. Speaker, the hunters and trappers in my region are the farmers. Their harvest provides us with food and some of our clothing. It allows our culture to be preserved and our traditions to continue. In fact, from all the aboriginal cultures in the NWT, the Tlicho traps the most. There are 300 trappers in my region. Forty percent of us hunt and fish.

We can see where we benefit from using our land for food, but it takes fuel to get us out on the land in my region. Now we have to pay $1.31 to $1.56 per litre for gas. That is not reasonable. Again, Mr. Speaker, the government should recognize the importance of hunters and trappers to the aboriginal culture by providing them with a tax break in terms of road gas rates in order that they may continue to live their traditional way of life. At this time I would like to say thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 417

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Subsidies To Counter Rising Fuel Costs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 417

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I will be addressing heating and fuel, affordable fuel for all residents and fuel subsidies for our elders. Last week, many of us identified and discussed the skyrocketing costs of fuel. I have reservations as to the Minister's approach to these problems, Mr. Speaker, by launching another information campaign to the residents to reduce their usage of energy as an immediate solution. Most changes such as these require time and start-up costs. The Arctic Energy Alliance has been campaigning on these issues already. Thirdly, who really benefits from these campaigns?

Mainly communications and consulting firms; not our residents. Rebates can be delivered to the residents in many ways across the territory: lower retail fuel costs in the communities, not higher; more flexibility in the home heating subsidy programs; and additional funding for smaller communities to assist with fuel expenses.

I would like to reiterate, Mr. Speaker, that no one should ever have to choose between food and heat. Mr. Speaker, that is happening today in our communities throughout the Territories. Seniors often need special care, and in response, family members assist and live at the elder's home permanently or temporarily. During this time, benefits and programs must not be denied to them. Without this very important program, the extraordinary heating costs experienced in the North would be overwhelming for the elders and others with limited income.

This year, the GNWT will be increasing the cost of fuel in many communities. The rationale given is external conditions. If the GNWT purchases and delivers the fuel once or twice a year far in advance, then the current market conditions should not influence the overall price.

Secondly, if, and only if, the GNWT is projecting a revenue surplus to offset the operating costs, then why are small communities bearing the brunt of this change? Why are we raising our fuel costs when everywhere else in the world is dropping, Mr. Speaker? We need to maintain our comprehensive strategy, not recover the costs from the little communities and the people who have no long-term fixed incomes, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Subsidies To Counter Rising Fuel Costs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 417

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 417

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had a Member's statement ready to go today about energy, but, after hearing the interview on CBC Radio this morning with the president of the Housing Corporation, I am sorry, but I have to come back to the Housing Corporation again.

How can this corporation have the audacity to go on the radio and try to defend itself by contradicting the observations of the Members of this House? As far as I am concerned, the gloves are now off. I will make it my personal mission to point out, in painstaking detail, the tabled documents and the information in this House that will back up my comments. Obviously, the president doesn't get my point. I have no problem with investing money. I have no problem with spending money. I have a very big problem with wasting money. I also have a problem with lack of transparency and accountability.

---Applause

In the interview, it was stated that there are three units occupied in the Tuktoyaktuk seniors' complex. I am telling you, Mr. Speaker, that I, and almost all the Regular Members of this House, toured that facility with the

caretaker this spring, and I could see with my own eyes that the units were not occupied. So let's not split hairs over whether there are now three occupied units. One is the caretaker and his wife, for sure. My point, which seems to be getting missed here, is that the NWT Housing Corporation has limited resources. We have a critical shortage of housing in the North. We cannot afford to build multi-million dollar facilities, operate and maintain these, and accumulate costs of tens of thousands of dollars per year with no one in it, even if we had the money to throw away, which we don't. Sure, we can reprofile after the fact, but that is not the solution.

The other point of bringing up this facility is that it is not an isolated occurrence. I said that if the seniors' complexes in Deline and Fort Resolution have not yet been profiled, they also missed their target audience of housing seniors in those communities. Surely, with all the consultation and surveys about poor housing needs that the Housing Corporation has undertaken over the years, they can do a little better than this. Consultation in the community should have revealed whether or not there would be uptake or buy-in from the seniors.

Admittedly, there are some cultural issues that needed to be taken into account, but those concerns should not be foreign to this government. We have a critical housing shortage. We have a budget. Is it too much to ask that we try to match those resources to those needs? If we don't have...

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mrs. Groenewegen , your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Is it too much to ask that we try to match those resources to those needs? If we don't have a housing shortage, then we need to ask ourselves if we have a housing mandate. If public housing has been turned over to ECE, and our local LHOs and district offices are doing a good job of delivering local social housing and regional housing programs, what do we need the NWT Housing Corporation for? Let's just roll them into another department.

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

They do have an overstaffed headquarters. If they transferred $30 million to ECE for social housing, and ECE had to hire 12 positions associated with that transfer, why didn't the staff in the Housing Corporation go down, and why weren't the PYs transferred with the program?

Mr. Speaker, I stand by everything I said in my Member's statement. Hopefully, over the next few days, I can create enough concern about the operations of this corporation to warrant an in-depth review of its programs and policies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Review Of Housing Corporation Programs And Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Member's statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today will be on the high cost of living that is plaguing many of the residents here in the Northwest Territories, and the government's inaction towards this high cost of living.

For the past two years, I have been mentioning ways in which the government could ease the pain for our residents and put more money back in their wallet. Mr. Speaker, the government just does not seem to be paying attention to the fact that some people cannot afford to buy groceries for their kids because they are paying $1.00 per litre for home heating fuel and $1.20 a litre for gas. This, Mr. Speaker, is in Yellowknife. Outside of Yellowknife, in the small communities, it is even more of a burden. The term "working poor" has never been more of a reality than it is today.

There are obviously worldwide implications like hurricanes, geopolitical events and business moves that can impact the prices we pay for gas, home heating fuel and energy. Most of this, Mr. Speaker, cannot be helped.

As a government representing the 43,000 people who live here, we have to identify creative ways to put more money in people's pockets so that they can have the resources to battle these ever-increasing costs. A number of ways that we can accomplish this is not only giving our residents more money to pay their bills, but also to track and retain people to live here. Firstly, I do not understand why the federal government, who knows full well the dispute we have with them on resource revenue sharing, do not agree to put this money aside and look at establishing a resource revenue trust fund.

This would ultimately benefit all residents for years to come. The State of Alaska has a fund that pays out dividends yearly to all residents of between $900 and $2,100 per resident. The province of Alberta has a heritage trust fund that has been very successful in earning income for residents of the province. Last year alone, that fund had investment income of $934 million, which is almost our entire operating budget, Mr. Speaker.

From a tax perspective, I have maintained that we should be lobbying the federal government to exempt the territory from paying the GST.

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Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

We should also look at tax credits for interest paid on mortgages. This would provide immediate help to many residents. The hardest part of it is we have the oil, gas and natural resources here, and we have to have some type of direct benefit from our own resources. If the Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline goes ahead, it will join the Norman Wells line leaving the territory. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 418

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Ramsay .

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Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We wave goodbye to this natural resource at the wellhead, and then we pay outrageous prices to bring it back. Why can't a small refinery be built in Norman Wells, or Inuvik, to supply this territory the fuel that it needs? My opinion certainly mirrors that of public opinion; that is that this government has not done nearly enough to address the high cost of living here. It is high time that it had a serious look at options to try to finally give some relief to our residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Options To Address The High Cost Of Living

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak in honour of Small Business Week, and start by saying that this government would not know the meaning of the theme "You have the Power Behind the Canadian Economy - Let's Share the Energy" if it were written on their foreheads.

Mr. Speaker, last week, I met with the representatives from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. I learned, again, the challenges and opportunities our small businesses face in the North. I learned that they are very concerned about the ever-increasing input costs, like the high insurance premiums, cost of energy, fuel, taxes, from all three levels of government, and WCB premiums and, on top of all that, mountains of paperwork and red tape from this government, and chronic shortage of trained labour.

In spite of that, Mr. Speaker, they continue to provide our economy with good jobs, even if they keep losing them to bigger employers like the government and large industries. They give generously to numerous organizations and causes in communities they operate in. They go through endless ups and downs, but they persevere. They stick around. They are investing money and time and their sweat, because they believe in what they do because they have faith in our economy.

It is just too bad, Mr. Speaker, that this government does not have half as much of faith and confidence in them. For years, this government has been pointing its finger everywhere outward as to why we don't have economic development opportunities going on in so many of regional centres and small communities. They say it is because we don't have EDA funding. We don't have resource revenue sharing...

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Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Excuse me, Ms. Lee . The interpreters cannot keep up with the translation. Can you please slow down a bit in your Member's statement? Thank you, Ms. Lee .

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Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry. I will slow down. Where was I? They go through endless ups and downs, but they persevere. They stick around. They are investing money and time and their sweat, because they believe in what they do. It is just too bad, Mr. Speaker, that this government does not have half as much faith and confidence in them. For years, this government has been pointing its finger everywhere outward as to why we don't have economic development opportunities going on in so many of our regional centres and small communities.

They say it's because we don't have EDA funding, we don't have resource revenue sharing money, no royalty dividends, no money, no industries. The list of blame and whining goes on and on. So what does this government do when it gets a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to some real money and real investment opportunities that these die-hard northern businesses can really sink their teeth into, Mr. Speaker, like the $200 million plus housing and infrastructure project that could come from the pipeline development?

Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

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Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Ms. Lee .

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Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, what do they do? They become hypnotized by the charming, magic spell of one former Finance Minister of this government, who now wears the hat of a consultant for Echo-Novel. This Cabinet has become completely blinded and deaf to the pleas of MLAs or anyone with contrary opinions. I guess we just don't have that magic spell, Mr. Speaker. They don't talk to northern people. They ignore proposals submitted by builders in Yellowknife and Hay River. They so shamelessly announce to the world we have no capacity here, we can't build housing here.

They cannot fly fast enough to take their money to give to Calgary, Alberta, and to the already bloated Ralph Klein coffers, Mr. Speaker. Shame on this government. Mr. Speaker. These businesses have earned their right to insist that this government's long-term economic plan includes them, and I will do everything I can to make sure that the northern businesses have the first right of refusal to every penny of that $220 million plus. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Challenges Faced By Small Business Operators

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 419

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member's statement is on the big picture of energy in relation to some of my honourable colleagues' Member's statements. We are like the Eveready bunny rabbit on the TV commercial that keeps going and going and going, with the emphasis on Eveready. Mr. Speaker, we, in the North, have a tremendous amount of opportunities to deal with energy resources. We're on the verge of the biggest single mega project in Canada: the long-awaited pipeline, to the various hydro potential opportunities we have in the North. This is only the tip of the iceberg as to what we, as northerners, are allowing the federal government to dictate our quality of living and lead us around.

Mr. Speaker, we don't have enough means to deal with our energy issues because, Mr. Speaker, we don't have constitutional protection or clout to tell the federal government enough is enough. We can, and do, pay our own way and make a significant contribution to Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I made reference to the Eveready bunny, earlier in my statement, that keeps going on and on and on. The question that may be asked is, is this government the Eveready bunny in that we just keep going and going and going and rely heavily on the feds to change our batteries or to wind us up and keep leading us on to what we are doing today, whining about the sad state of our government, the need to get a fair share of the resource revenue sharing, to look at our energy in the North here?

Mr. Speaker, until we have the clout, as may be in the constitutional rights in Canada, we will continue to deal with our energy issues as we are doing with our communities by creating various awareness campaign programs and taking responsibility for personal energy use and to make the tough choices. We have to decide either to pay for food or pay for fuel today. Mr. Speaker, we, as northern people, are losing a lot of energy, both in resource development payments and the ability to take a stand against the federal government.

As a territory, in the early days of Confederation, we appreciated their guidance, and now that we're big enough, we have to realize that we need to say to this federal government, can we leave our sandbox now, and allow us the dignity to be rightfully participant in the nation we call Canada.

The Premier has called himself, has been referred to as Gandhi as other Members...

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Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Yakeleya , your time for Members' statement has expired.

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Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

I see unanimous consent to continue my statement, Mr. Speaker.

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Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. The Premier has been referred to as Gandhi, by other Members. He's also called himself the Maytag repairman in the House here. Mr. Speaker, I want to give the Sahtu vision to our Premier . The Sahtu would like to call him the Eveready bunny. Go get him, Mr. Premier . Tell all the world that our energy is not for sale, and to get their hands out of the pockets of the northern people. Thank you.

---Applause

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Taking Control Of Northern Energy Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Surplus Hydroelectric Power

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the wise use of energy, energy conservation and energy consumption in the Northwest Territories are all topics in today's session. I'd just like to touch on some of the not-so-wise use of energy by this government.

Mr. Speaker, the Taltson hydro system is both currently underused and underdeveloped. Since the closure of the Pine Point Mine in the late '80s, demand on the system has been steadily declining. The average of 10 megawatts being used for most of the year, with the capacity of 20 megawatts in the system, leaves us with 10 megawatts of excess power that represents a significant loss in potential revenues for the Power Corporation, which, in turn, results in higher energy costs for consumers.

Mr. Speaker, when this government had an opportunity to sell the surplus power as interruptible power to prospective consumers, and possibly utilize some to heat many of the government buildings at a very reduced rate, they did not take the initiative seriously and, subsequently, nothing materialized. Mr. Speaker, these recommendations, along with many other good suggestions on how this government could realize more energy revenues, thus resulting in lower rates for individual households overall, and the recommendations on how this government can reduce government infrastructure heating costs, were all reviewed and compiled in a detailed report paid for by this government five years ago.

Mr. Speaker, five years ago, when the prices of crude oil and other fossil fuels were at record lows, not taking action on any of these recommendations was construed as the best practice. But today, Mr. Speaker, we are in an energy crisis situation, one that requires immediate action on all fronts by this government. So, Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to stress the importance of rising energy costs to northerners, and urge that this government make a wise decision and take a proactive approach to lessening some of the pressures of these rising, higher costs of living in the North for northerners, by seriously incorporating or revisiting some of the recommendations made in the report that was shelved five years ago. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Surplus Hydroelectric Power

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Smart Energy Solutions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 420

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise again today, as I did in October 2004, and even last week during this session, to again urge this government in a common sense approach, a proactive approach on implementing smart energy solutions that will ease the burden on this government that we are faced with. I'm not suggesting, in any way, that we create a new, bloated bureaucracy, department or added infrastructure, or let alone open up the flood gates to the consultants on a new study feeding frenzy. It's time that we stopped this callow behaviour and we start with some cerebral activity on this matter. There are simple solutions out there, Mr. Speaker. Let's start using them.

Mr. Speaker, there are smart things we can do. Smart energy is a culture, so let's stop trying to force it; let's finally embrace it. Let's stop buying vehicles that don't fit our need. Let's create a territorial replacement policy on vehicles that purchases vehicles that truly suit our needs and our usages. Let's stop buying four-by-four trucks when mid-sized vehicles will do. Let's stop buying full-size vans when minivans will do. If we continue to buy vehicles on the worst side of the miles-per-gallon scale, we're just throwing money down the drain. Let's buy smart vehicles.

On smart vehicles, I would never suggest that we should put our highways or patrol folks or ENR patrol folks in those types of vehicles, but mid-size vehicles would do, and they truly would serve the purpose.

So, Mr. Speaker, what's stopping us from finally putting our pens to paper with a simple policy to say let's buy smart vehicles that use energy wisely? Mr. Speaker, later today, our lucky Premier will have questions from me. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Smart Energy Solutions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to introduce, in the gallery, a professor that's visiting with us here in Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories. He's been involved in the first ever distance education program from the University of Melbourne in Australia. Dr. John Owen is joined with his wife, Pam, both from Melbourne, Australia. Also with them is Karen Hicks, programs advisor to FMBS, who's been helping with the delivery of the program and has helped with the program. I believe we have 19 GNWT staff involved in that program. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Handley .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to recognize Dr. David Malcolm, the executive director for the Arctic Energy Alliance,...

---Applause

and a man who recently saw the light and just moved to Weledeh. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to introduce Mr. Darrin Guinan and a local business man, Mr. Gord Humphries, up in the gallery. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Ms. Pauline DeHaan, the communications coordinator for the Arctic Energy Alliance. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I don't know if he's still there, but I'd like to recognize the federal Conservative Party rep for the NWT, a past chief and the original constituent of Tu Nedhe, Rick Edjericon. He was up there, but I don't think he's there now.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Again, I can't see if he's there, but I know that Mr. Jim Lynn, a parent, one of the affected parents of the Territorial Treatment Centre decision, was going to join us in the Assembly this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize the leaders from the Akaitcho Territory: Rick Edjericon, Peter Liske and Mr. Crookedhand. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod.

---Laughter

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Oh, you had me worried there for a while, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize Paul T'seleie, elected council member from the charter community of Good Hope. I'd also like to recognize Chief Peter Liske and Rick Edjericon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we've missed anybody in the gallery today, welcome to the Legislative Assembly. It's always nice to have an audience present. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 421

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today, I know that all the Members were talking about energy, and it's very important, but there's an issue in my riding that's far more important and pressing than stranded gas. It's stranded residents there, Mr. Speaker. The residents have been given notice that the ferry may shut down for the season beginning tonight. Residents are extremely concerned, as there's not enough notice to get in their last minute supplies. So I'd like to ask the Minister if there's truth to the fact that the ferry at the Liard River crossing will be closed today. Thank you.

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Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Return To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct. The department was given notice that the contractor would not be able to provide service as of sometime tonight. It was not notice that was really sufficient enough for us to provide advance notice. We have put the word out in the communities, to Wrigley and Fort Simpson, and we're trying to advise the general public that there will be a disruption of service. We are not in a position, right now, to confirm whether the service will be halted for the season, or on a temporary basis, and we will be making that decision later on today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The concern, of course, is from the community of Wrigley, as well, who hasn't finished their fuelling resupply, and they may, in fact, run out of fuel for the freeze-up season, and that's an extreme concern. It's too bad the federal government didn't rule that an essential service, because it would have prevented the situation as it is, where a community and the residents and the whole fabric of the community could be shut down. So once again, if this government says there will be a disruption of service, can you assure the public and the communities that there will be some type of continuation of service? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are trying to do an analysis of the urgency to have some winter supply brought in. We are contacting the communities. We are contacting some of the larger facilities to see how many organizations, how many companies, will be left in a situation without supply, whether it's food, or whether it's fuel or propane. So we will be compiling that information today. We are doing that currently, as we speak. We will be getting together with some of my Cabinet colleagues to discuss some of the options that are coming forward as to what we can do for the short term, and also to discuss this whole situation on a longer term basis. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It's a huge thing to the communities of Fort Simpson and Wrigley to be shutting down the ferry and actually closing it for the season, because the resupplies haven't been finished. Some people have propane tanks at 10 percent level, and it just won't last the six or eight weeks, Mr. Speaker. So once again, if the Minister can tell me what strategy they have in place to provide continuation of service with regard to the disruption of the ferry service there, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I have answered part of that question earlier. But we are looking at what the options are, what we can do and what's feasible. In a normal season, our average for shutting down the ferry is usually the beginning of November. The earliest we have ever shut down is October 24th. We're a little short of that. We are talking to the different communities to see how urgent it is and what supplies really need to get across.

We will be measuring what the options are in front of us, and we will be deciding that today sometime whether that means we will be looking at alternative methods of bringing supplies and people across. For the short term, we haven't decided what that will actually be at this point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Question 185-15(4): Liard River Ferry Crossing Closure

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I highlighted in my Member's statement, my question will focus on a critical need for gas tax relief for hunters and trappers. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for the FMBS if he would consider making an exception for hunters and trappers to consider an off-road gas tax break for hunters and trappers which would allow them to continue with their traditional harvesting. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the energy costs, the fuel prices across the North, definitely have climbed substantially since this time last year, and we're having to try to adjust with that even from the government's prospective. The idea of a gas tax relief for hunters and trappers would be a difficult one to try and implement as to who would qualify for that and what amounts they would qualify for. That would be a consideration we'd have to look at, but it would be a difficult thing to try to implement. Thank you.

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Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 422

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with that in mind, I would like to ask the Minister about his statement on energy that government will be requesting funds for a conservation and education campaign designed to help residents cope with the increase in fuel bills they will experience this winter. So my question to the Minister is, how specifically will this help hunters and trappers in the North? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I spoke to briefly are some of the things we've yet to deal with in the House through a supplementary appropriation that will be coming forward to Members. So I'm unable to speak to the specifics of it, but there are a number of initiatives the government across the board is looking at, and a number of departments are being involved in that process. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister indicated, I'd like to ask what kinds of other initiatives the department is looking into to help subsidize hunters and trappers with the high fuel costs to retain and continue with their harvesting? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm informed that there are a number of programs out there that help those involved in traditional harvesting through the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, as well as through Industry, Tourism and Investment. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister outlined identifying hunters and trappers would be a difficult task for the department, but I would like to make a suggestion as a question to the department. We do have registered hunters and trappers in our region, and different regions as well, who are regular trappers and hunters. I'm sure the department can work with that status. So if the department can work with that, can they commit to working with the communities to identify those registered hunters and trappers? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is right about the list that each group would have, and I'd be familiar with that, myself, as before I got involved in this line of work, I was involved with the hunters and trappers committee back home. So there are a number of programs out there that we do work with, and maybe through those programs we can look at what can be done. Again, I'm informed that what we call CHAP, or Community Harvesters Assistance Program, is one that was put in place to help harvesters throughout the Northwest Territories. So that might be one of the programs we can look at. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Question 186-15(4): Gasoline Tax Break For Harvesters

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement, I made reference to how the Sahtu made me describe our Premier as the energizer bunny in terms of the energy plans. More specifically, I made reference to how much we're depending on the federal government. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier of the Northwest Territories is, when will this government, or his government, go forward with a solid position, supported by all northern people, that will provide the North with a vision, once and for all, that we are the drivers of our own destiny with respect to any type of energy legislation being planned for the North here? Thank you.

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Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have begun to work on defining our vision and our strategy for getting there. That document is referred to as the Northern Strategy. I hope that we can see a signing of that this fall, if the main pieces are included. One of the main pieces, Mr. Speaker, is devolution and resource revenue sharing. We have to come to an agreement with the federal government on a fair share of the revenues that come from our resources. I'm hoping we can do it this fall. If not, we will continue as long as it takes to make sure that every northerner gets their fair share of the benefits from our resources. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories, especially the Norman Wells oil field, has been pumping oil out of this region for the last 80 years or so. Today, I understand, we have 24,000 barrels that runs through the pipeline each day in the North here. The life expectancy is between 2020 to 2030, give or take a few years. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier of the Northwest Territories, in terms of the Northern Strategy, what type of insurance can we expect from this devolution, resource sharing, Northern Strategy, that we don't have a dry bucket to deal with the Norman Wells oil field? I mean, it could run out, and then we could sign a deal. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 423

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I'm working as much as I can every hour I have on this very issue. I've had recent meetings with the Minister of Indian and

Northern Affairs, who is the lead Minister on devolution with the federal government. I hope to meet with the Prime Minister in the next month and intend that we make progress on this, at least to the point where we can sign an agreement-in-principle on devolution and resource revenue sharing.

Mr. Speaker, I also recently met with the aboriginal leaders who participate in the Aboriginal Summit, and we have an agreement with them that we will work together on a bilateral position on resource revenue sharing for the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Norman Wells oil field is a classic example, in terms of the types of things that the federal government will do to us if we don't keep track of them. Mr. Speaker, there are millions of dollars that the federal government is taking, and I think the Premier is well aware of this as we have spoken many times on it. I'd like to ask the Premier if he or his government will, within the lifetime of this government, have any type of plans in terms of bringing forward an energy legislation that will give us protection and not fall into something like the Norman Wells oil field where we get zero, nothing, in terms of the resources and royalties. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct; the Norman Wells oil field and the arrangement the federal government has with the producers in that area is one that has been frustrating for us. The federal government has taken the position that their part ownership in that project is not in lieu of taxes or royalties, and we're of the view it is. We will continue that argument. Mr.

Speaker, I am optimistic that the federal government will realize that doing a fair devolution and resource revenue sharing arrangement with us is not only a good deal for all northern fuel, but it's also a good deal for Canada, because that's how we're going to see maximum benefits come out of our resources in the Northwest Territories. That is what's going to encourage people to promote development, not stand in its way. So, Mr. Speaker, I'm optimistic we can achieve this through negotiations. I hope that we can do it this fall. If we can't, I intend we do it within the next few months.

Mr. Speaker, if that is not possible, then it may be necessary for us, collectively as legislators, to put our heads together and figure out what other vehicle, legislation or whatever it may be, that we have to put in place to achieve what is right for northern residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the federal government has been taking enough from the Northwest Territories, and it is time that Mr. Premier has taken a position that enough is enough. They have taken a lot of resources out of the Northwest Territories and now we are asking for what is rightfully ours, and they are having a hard time with that. I ask the Premier , in terms of supporting him and having all the people in the Northwest Territories support him, when will he be able to come forward to this House in drafting up energy legislation that gives us some clout with having this made in the North and for the northern people? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, the commitment I have from the Prime Minister, a commitment that he made publicly, is that we work toward an agreement-in-principle on resource revenue sharing that would give us what is rightfully ours. We would have that agreement-in-principle in 2005, and that we would have a final agreement in 2006, and implementation of that agreement in 2007. I am going to hold him to that in every way that I possibly can. If that doesn't work, then Mr. Speaker, as I said, we will have to look at alternatives. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Question 187-15(4): Control Of Northern Energy And Resources

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for Seniors , the Honourable Michael Miltenberger , with respect to the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program. I wanted to ask the Minister, with the rising heating costs for seniors, and the growing number of seniors that we are coming face to face with as the years go by in the NWT, we are going to have more seniors that are going to be applying for the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program.

I am just wondering if the Minister can let this House know, and the seniors of the NWT, that the numbers of cords of wood and the litres of fuel that the subsidy program covers are adequately reflective of the rising costs of living in the NWT today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 424

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, the seniors' subsidy is actually the responsibility of the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Mr. Speaker, the amount of subsidy that we provide to seniors is based on the quantity of fuel, whether it is wood or fuel oil, or propane, or whatever they are using. It is not based on the price.

Mr. Speaker, they will get the same amount of fuel under this scheme as they did last year, and if we take fuel oil, it is 2,400 litres of fuel in communities in the southern part -- what we call zone 1 -- and up to 3,200 in zone 3.

Mr. Speaker, there is a formula for wood on the same kind of scale. I want to emphasize it is based on quantity, not on the price. The price should not be a factor for seniors who qualify for this subsidy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Premier . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If we are talking quantity, I know that from seeing seniors and the way they live, I know that as they age, the thermostat seems to be going up every year. They are obviously using more fuel every year, and I just wanted to ask the Minister -- because with these new, higher fuel costs today, more seniors are going to be using woodstoves and such -- whether the rates that are in the subsidy program are going to be reflective of the increased use in woodstoves and the increased consumption of fuel? Are they going to be changing at all? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, right now, I don't believe that there is any plan to change the amounts of fuel that eligible seniors could apply for. Mr. Speaker, the amount on wood, for example, is five cords in zone 1. Mr. Speaker, I should also emphasize that this is a subsidy. It is not meant to cover all of their costs, but to subsidize their costs that they are facing. It is based on amount, not on price.

Mr. Speaker, I should also point out that I believe lower income seniors would also be eligible -- again, I say this without a lot of the detail -- for the federal Fuel Subsidy Program or heating rebate that has recently been announced. There is some increased assistance to seniors and others. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi. I just need to ask the Minister why the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program doesn't include wood pellets, for instance, Mr. Speaker. They are environmentally sound, it is cheaper than a cord of wood, and more seniors are starting to use it because it is easier to use, for one thing. Why aren't wood pellets included in the Fuel Subsidy Program, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 188-15(4): Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Mr. Premier .

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