Debates of Feb. 9th, 2009

This is page numbers 2061 - 2094 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was communities .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 11-16(3): Moving Forward In The 16th Legislative Assembly

Minister’s Statement 12-16(3): Apprenticeship And Occupational Certification Awards And Recognition

Minister’s Statement 13-16(3): Cook Program Graduation – North Slave Correctional Centre

Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Confidence Motion Debate

Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Need For Airport Runway Lights

Aboriginal Language Interpreter/translator Programs

Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Confidence Motion Debate

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Need For Airport Runway Lights

Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Aboriginal Language Interpreter/translator Program

Gravel Source For Aklavik Transportation Infrastructure

Written Question 3-16(3): GNWT Employee Performance Bonuses

Petition 5-16(3): NWT Electrical Power Rates

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Before we begin, colleagues, I would like to inform you that we have two interpreters today. Channel two is the Gwich’in and channel three is Tlicho. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. Honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 11-16(3): Moving Forward In The 16th Legislative Assembly

Ministers’ Statements

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank Members and my Cabinet colleagues for their honesty and frankness in our debate last Friday.

I know the issue of notification of changes to my personal life is a concern for some Members. I want to apologize for the effect this has had on the work of this Assembly.

Members have been clear that they expect better communications from government, and I acknowledge there are steps we can take to make things better.

My Cabinet colleagues and I have discussed ways to improve our information sharing with Members and the public. As a start, we are prepared to discuss our communications protocols with Members and come up with a renewed protocol that meets the needs of Members.

I restate our invitation for Members to appoint representatives to sit on our Strategic Initiative Committees. As these committees start to do more policy work, Members will have an opportunity for input as this work proceeds.

I think there is general agreement among all Members that we need to move forward and do the

best work we can for the people of our Territory. As I stated on Friday, I hope all Members can recommit to the spirit of collaboration expressed when we first came together as the 16th Legislative

Assembly. Thank you.

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Minister’s Statement 11-16(3): Moving Forward In The 16th Legislative Assembly

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister’s Statement 12-16(3): Apprenticeship And Occupational Certification Awards And Recognition

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, the week of February 1st to 7th was Apprenticeship and

Occupational Certification Week in the NWT. I am pleased to be able to share that we had much to celebrate. One hundred and fifty-three Northerners are in the process of occupational certification in the NWT, which is the highest number ever. The number of apprentices registered in the NWT has increased substantially for the first time in several years. As of January 2009, there were 427 apprentices, just over half of whom are in their first year. This is an increase of more than 25 percent from the previous year.

The reasons for this increase are numerous, but they are all rooted in the commitment of northern employers to the apprenticeship system.

This year, there has been increased involvement in all areas of apprenticeship, from employers and apprentices to Aurora College and Education, Culture and Employment.

Employers have been very supportive of the program, not only in taking on new apprentices but also giving their time to the trade advisory committees.

This week we celebrate our many new award winners and graduates from the program. There are recipients from every region of the Territory this year, another great reason to celebrate!

Following the apprenticeship and occupational certification review, there have been many changes made at ECE. The registration process for apprentices has been updated and the act and regulations are being reviewed. Staff have

undergone professional development updates, and we are working closer than ever with our partners.

Aurora College has also updated their trades programs, with a renovation of the trades facility at Thebacha Campus, and the addition of the new mobile trades training facility in Inuvik.

It is an exciting time to be involved in apprenticeship and occupational certification in the NWT, and I hope you will join me in celebrating this year’s successes. Mahsi.

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Minister’s Statement 13-16(3): Cook Program Graduation – North Slave Correctional Centre

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, today it is my privilege to announce the first graduation of the North Slave Correctional Centre’s cooking program.

This was a partnership between NSCC and Aurora College. Five young men received their camp cook certificates last Thursday. Everyone who attended the graduation saw their pride at finishing the program: they now have skills they never had before. This opens a world of new opportunities; all they have to do is choose to take them.

Aurora College has been an active partner in the delivery of cooking programs throughout the NWT, and we certainly saw that with this program. The effective partnership between Aurora College staff and NSCC food service staff is proof that when we work together, great things can happen.

Our correctional facilities are not warehouses for offenders who are just waiting out their sentences. Our treatment and support programs are focused on rehabilitating offenders and dealing with the root causes of their criminal behaviour. Our goal is to give them the skills they need to reintegrate into their communities. Specialty training programs like this aren’t right for everyone. But for certain offenders, they can be the key to getting employment, taking responsibility for their behaviour, and staying on the straight and narrow.

This was an opportunity for these five young men; a chance to start again. They’ll go back to their communities with new skills. They prepared a delicious meal for their guests, and I know they’ll be excellent cooks. I’ll be watching their careers with interest.

Our Territory has a growing need for qualified cooks, and there are employment opportunities in the food service industry. Graduates of the cooking program have both the ability and the opportunity to further explore and pursue this as a lifetime career choice.

The vast majority of offenders eventually leave custody and go back to their communities. We are always glad when people deal with the issues that were leading them to offend, and take the steps they need to become productive members of society. Our goal is to have safe, secure communities. Developing offenders’ employment skills is one key to helping them reintegrate into their communities and stay out of trouble in the future. Mahsi cho.

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Minister’s Statement 13-16(3): Cook Program Graduation – North Slave Correctional Centre

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to talk about the need to have a proper drainage study done for Lutselk’e in order to properly apply any sort of debt reduction that will be effective. This study and follow-up work is imperative.

Like many small communities here in the North, when the summer rolls around there is a long list of projects that are crammed into a short construction season. Every year new plots of land are surveyed, new housing units are built, new roads are cleared, and existing roads are maintained. All of these activities cannot properly be done without taking into account the drainage characteristics of a particular area. This is a major problem for residents of Lutselk’e. The community cannot effectively do some of these projects until the community has proper drainage.

In Lutselk’e much of the community is situated on sloping terrain and drainage has an everyday impact. Spring rain runoff makes a very wet and muddy mess for residents and unwelcome sights for visitors to this small, isolated community.

There is no question that proper drainage for this community will greatly improve all future municipal works projects. Yards can be developed without coming back year after year to repair. New housing units can be built on long-lasting, solid foundations. And roads can be properly drained, paving the way for future dust control applications.

As well, residents and visitors will finally be able to enjoy this picturesque community without having a cloud of dust hanging over them for many of the dry days. Community residents can go outside without having to use rubber boots all the time.

I look forward to working with the Minister and the community in getting the ball rolling for this important community project. We may someday see a time when mud and dust is not an everyday issue for smaller communities like Lutselk’e.

Later today I will have follow-up questions from my statement for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs .

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Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

It’s obvious that more people than I were thinking over the weekend about the events that occurred last Friday. I’d like to thank the Premier for his statement.

I want to take this opportunity to thank all Members of this House for their openness and their honesty in their remarks that were made during the confidence motion debate on Friday. It was gratifying for me, at least, to hear the frustrations of the Members on the other side of the floor as well as the Members on this side of the floor. I found it a somewhat cathartic experience to be able to express my own concerns and reservations publicly and to all of Cabinet in one fell swoop. Everyone heard it at the same time. For me it cleared the air, I got a load off my chest, and let everyone know where I stand and how I feel.

So now what? As a friend of mine says. Did we really hear each other? Will we really make an effort to solve this impasse or will each side retreat into their corners to sulk and plot anew on how to get the other side?

It will take an effort on our part, all of us; an honest effort from every one of us. We all have to be the grown-ups that we can be and play nice in the sandbox, as has been said before.

Can we overcome our distrust? See the others’ point of view? Leave aside our instinctive vindictiveness? Ignore the personality conflicts and work together for the better of our Territory and our residents? I hope so.

I believe all of us in this beautiful room in this wonderful building love the NWT, and deep down we’re all here to make improvements for our people. We’ve reached an impasse, but it’s not insurmountable. The outcome all depends on how we look at the problem and how we tackle it. I will do my part to reach out and find solutions, offer to compromise and work things out. I only hope I get a positive reception and the same willingness to fix the problem from those I offer my hand to.

The two sides of this House have different expectations regarding how things should work between the two bodies that we’ve established. But I believe we all want the same result. Can we actually talk this out? Find common ground? Can each side compromise and change a bit, develop new processes and protocols to suit both sides? I say yes and expect no less from the rest of my colleagues.

What is needed for us to go forward is a large dose of humility and another of common sense. Talk is cheap; it’s actions that count.

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Ms. Bisaro , your time for Member’s statement has expired.

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Talk is cheap; it’s actions that count. Let our future actions show that we really mean what was said on Friday.

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

On Friday this Legislature passed a motion requesting that Cabinet stop the implementation of the proposed Supplementary Health Benefits Program. All 11 Members on this side of the House, the majority of this Legislature, the majority of this Assembly supported that motion. The seven Members of Cabinet abstained.

During the debate on the motion the Minister of Health and Social Services said, according to the unedited Hansard of Friday, February 6, 2009, “I believe the intent of the policy is reasonable...” She further stated that, “Those who can afford to should contribute to the cost of benefits that supplement their health care.” I believe that these comments go to the heart of the problems that we’re experiencing with the proposed Supplementary Health Benefits Program.

The Minister has committed to means testing for supplemental health benefits regardless of any sound evidence that suggests it’s the right thing to do. There’s a remote chance that it may be right; however, without a financial analysis or research to demonstrate or back up that it is the right way to go, it is premature to commit so rigidly to that model of delivery. It is short sighted and does not allow for the development of a reasonable policy or program.

The Minister and Cabinet need to listen to what the majority of Members and the public have said. They need to immediately cease the implementation of this policy and rethink their devotion to means testing. They need to do the research and financial analysis with an open mind and no preconceived attitudes that their way is the best and only way to do things. There are other options. I strongly believe that a full cost analysis will demonstrate that means testing of supplementary health benefits will do more harm than good and will ultimately cost us all far more than it saves.

The motion on Friday is clear. The majority has spoken. Go back to the drawing board on the changes to supplementary health benefits with no preconceived notions. Allow common sense to prevail. Develop a program that is in the best interest of all Northerners. Do the right thing.

At the appropriate time I will have questions related to this Member’s statement for the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services .

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Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

The water treatment plant in Sachs Harbour has experienced many freeze-ups since the official opening in July 2005. There are serious design flaws that need to be corrected in order to ensure safety for drinking water for my constituents.

Also, because of the problems with the chlorination system, the water treatment plant in the community has been under a boil water advisory since July 2008, seven and a half months. Needless to say, my constituents of Sachs Harbour are very frustrated with the way the state of the water treatment in the community, and how it has been handled.

To my knowledge of this situation, there is more than enough blame to go around. Everyone involved in the design, construction, and ongoing operation has attempted to fix this, have tried over and over the last four years. I’m not going to sit here and assign blame or demand heads must roll. All I want to see is a clear way forward and reassurance for my residents of Sachs Harbour that the government is taking this problem very seriously, that there is a plan in place to ensure the safety of drinking water in Sachs Harbour and it is safe for my constituents.

I will have questions for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs at the appropriate time.

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Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Good afternoon, my friends. Given the difficult economic times we are currently in, more people in the Northwest Territories may find themselves in financial difficulty which could lead to declaring bankruptcy.

In bankruptcy, some essential assets are exempt in order to allow people to rebuild their lives, and those are defined in law. I took a look at the current NWT legislation that sets out what exemptions people can keep if they do file for bankruptcy. I was surprised at how outdated the NWT legislation is, which came into force in 1948. In reference to livestock, bees, ploughs, the items that have no reflection on what the majority of NWT residents own in this century.

I was also shocked at how low the value of exemption property was in the NWT legislation. The equipment necessary to work is capped at the maximum of $600, including things like a motor vehicle, your principal residence was capped at $3,000. The maximum of household furniture and appliances was $200.

If the intention of the legislation is to provide people with some essential assets so they can rebuild their lives after bankruptcy, then it needs to be updated and reflect the reality of life in the Northwest Territories today.

Exemptions vary among provinces and territories. After division, Nunavut implemented and amended the legislation. The exemption items include tools, vehicles, other equipment used by people for hunting, fishing, trapping, and for gathering of food. The legislation also includes exemptions for medical aids and devices necessary for the health and mobility of disabled people. It also makes some important exemptions of money received under the common experience payments cannot be exempted. In Alberta the exemptions of personal property can get as high as $40,000.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

In Alberta, the exemptions for personal property can be as high as $40,000 and the maximum exemption of equipment for work is $10,000. These

are exemptions for other jurisdictions. How inadequate our current legislation is facing the reality of what’s happening today. It also shows how vulnerable NWT residents are under this legislation.

The government needs to ensure the residents of the Northwest Territories have updated legislation that reflects the reality and views on exemptions of assets. I urge the Minister and Cabinet to make every effort to implement this legislation and make the amendments necessary so people who do declare bankruptcy can at least rebuild their lives.

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Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Need For Airport Runway Lights

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Today I want to go back to something I raised last June in this House: the need for runway lights in Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte. Both these communities have a very good airport runway, but they have raised the concern that the lack of runway lights can seriously compromise the safety of residents.

Most community airports across the NWT are equipped with basic infrastructure such as adequate runways, navigational aids, and runway lighting. This ensures that communities can safely be accessed by air 24 hours a day, particularly in the winter months.

The lack of runway lights makes it very difficult for essential services such as medevacs to travel to Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte at night or during inclement weather. This is a serious disadvantage and can compromise the health and public safety of the residents in these communities. The ability to react quickly to medical emergency and/or policing situations is the biggest concern. The Minister of Transportation has stated that public safety is the number one priority of his department.

I urge the Minister to extend his commitment to public safety to the residents of Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte and make sure that these airports have the necessary infrastructure to operate at night.

I also ask the Minister to make a commitment to include airport runway lights for Jean Marie and Nahanni Butte in the 2010-2011 capital plan of his department. Mahsi cho.

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Need For Airport Runway Lights

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Aboriginal Language Interpreter/translator Programs

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome to this Assembly a group of adult students and their instructors from the Goyatiko Language Centre in Dettah. These women are currently taking interpreter/translator training at Goyatiko.

The Goyatiko Language Society is a non-profit society established by a number of Yellowknives Dene who are working very hard to save their traditional languages, the Weledeh dialect of the Tlicho language and the Dene Suline or Chipewyan language. The students with us today are taking interpreter/translator training so that they will be able to assist in delivering services for their own First Nations and for institutions such as this Assembly, the hospitals, court and various boards and agencies. These students are also taking courses for Aurora College’s Aboriginal Language and Culture Instructor Program at Goyatiko.

Mr. Speaker, ALCIP, as it’s known, training will give these students an Aurora College certificate or diploma. However, the Aurora College has cut the Interpreter/Translator Diploma Program, so these students are taking this particular training even though they will not receive a college diploma for it.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT has made a real commitment to aboriginal language education in our schools through effective programs such as Language Nests. As languages are recovered, we will increasingly need certified, well-trained interpreters. Thus we need to re-establish the Interpreter/Translator Diploma Program at Aurora College at appropriate locations for good enrolment. The commitment of the students with us today to take the program, despite not receiving a diploma, highlights the need to re-establish this program as soon as possible.

In light of our current review of the Official Languages Act, I suggest that Members of the Standing Committee on Government Operations might want to talk to these students to see how important this training is to the preservation, development and enhancement of our endangered aboriginal languages here in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, colleagues, please join me in welcoming this dedicated group of people to our Assembly today. We have Mary Rose Sundberg and Betty Harnum, and students Jeannie Martin, Stella Martin, Margaret Martin-Baillargeon, Nora Crookedhand, Irene Soldat, and Alice Wilflad.

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Aboriginal Language Interpreter/translator Programs

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to speak about an issue of safety that affects all our northern communities. It is an environmental concern, a liability of abandoned gas stations here in the North. Abandoned gas stations are a problem because long after the doors close and the profits are taken and gone, those underground fuel tanks are still there and sometimes even the spills are there until they are forced to clean these up. These sites usually require substantial environmental cleanup and remediation, but it will sit there until they’re forced to.

In Yellowknife there are at least two gas stations that are sitting empty in prime commercial space; one sitting downtown in my riding and the other sitting between Tim Horton’s and Wal-Mart. Mr. Speaker, this has an effect on the community. Mr. Speaker, they’re fenced in but they look more like eyesores than anything.

Mr. Speaker, the community-at-large is not expecting these to be cleaned up because they know deep down inside there is no one forcing them to clean these properties up. Where is the public interest in this issue? Mr. Speaker, I don’t think there is any interest at all. It’s my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that there are no municipal bylaws that can force these property owners to clean up and remove those tanks and those properties as long as they are paying their property tax. The eyesore and potential environmental liability sits there and waits.

I think the territorial government should step up to the plate and should create a property law in the Northwest Territories that forces these people, when they walk away from these sites for more than a year and they certainly have no intent to reopen these facilities, that they should be acting in the interest of the public. The public stewardship should be taken as first priority and that should be that they clean these sites up. I’d hate to think that many owners have walked away from these sites and they’re going to ignore their liability for as long as they can, but some do. Sometimes that falls on the public purse to take responsibility of what should be done up front.

Mr. Speaker, I have problems with this, but I’d say that there are solutions. The Alberta government has a solution for assessing part of the cost and the remediation of those sites up front. Mr. Speaker, I think there are plenty of examples of where we can find solutions to this problem. What about performance bonds up front? We could start considering those actions to make sure the public interest is always foremost on our minds.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, the potential health and environmental risks are underpinned by a process that is inadvertently protecting by them paying their taxes and then not being forced to clean up. Mr. Speaker, I stand with the community in making sure that our environment is clean and we are responsible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there are eight communities in the Northwest Territories that have hydro development power. Mr. Speaker, these hydro development powers were the gift of the federal government when they had NCPC. Mostly these hydro stations were there because of the mining companies south of the lake of the Great Slave Lake and that area here. These hydro power initiatives that were a gift by the federal government then became the gift of the Northwest Territories and those communities that do enjoy the low cost of hydro power.

These eight communities are all on all-weather road highway systems in terms of their connection with this power here, compared to 23 diesel communities that are not on hydro power plus the two communities that are served by natural gas. The 23 communities, Mr. Speaker, five of these 23 diesel communities are on the highway system, 18 of them are fly-in communities where the high cost of living is double, sometimes, compared to Yellowknife rates or even triple in terms of Edmonton’s rates in terms of the inflation.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to this government’s initiative in terms of the NWT Hydro Strategy and also the document that came out in terms of review of regulations and review of the Power Subsidy Program and electrical rates in the Northwest Territories.

My issue, Mr. Speaker, is with the community of Deline. I have been pursuing this initiative on the hydro project to the Bear River hydro that didn’t come through, so now they’re looking to mini-hydro.

I would ask this government here to consider the Deline mini-hydro as a project that is high on its priorities in terms of its Hydro Strategy, in terms of the cost of living, in terms of how can they proceed with the community and this government through the lead Minister of the Energy Coordinating Committee in terms of putting some serious dollars, sitting down with the community, iron out their differences in terms of what is the best for this community in terms of bringing the costs of living down and having the community be an owner in terms of having mini-hydro in the community.

My issue will be with the lead Minister on the Energy Coordinating committee in terms of the Deline mini-hydro project. Thank you.

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Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to speak today about Friday and the motion that was narrowly defeated. I’d like to thank all of my constituents who gave me their thoughts and feelings on this motion. I appreciate and respect the views that I got from all of my constituents. I just wanted to take a moment today to summarize why I supported the motion and where do we go from here.

For me, the motion on Friday would have addressed a number of concerns, the biggest one being the proposed changes to the Supplementary Health Benefits Plan. It would have been an opportune time to ask a potential new Premier and Cabinet what their positions on the changes were and whether or not they supported it.

The same can be same for board reform, Mr. Speaker. Do you support the initiative, yes or no? It would have made it easier to hold the Premier and Cabinet accountable for these items had they confirmed it through the Territorial Leadership Committee.

Also, the issue of the Opportunities Fund and the future use of these dollars could have been on the table. An interesting note to this, Mr. Speaker, is that on Friday afternoon, while the motion to remove the Cabinet was being defeated, the deal closed on the $34 million loan, which was quite a coincidence.

As it pertains to the economy, it would have been a great time to ask a new Premier and Cabinet some very important questions on how they would stimulate the NWT economy.

Mr. Speaker, these opportunities passed us by on Friday and now it’s time for us to move on. I certainly hope that the Premier and Cabinet were not high-fiving each other this morning during Cabinet, but rather trying to understand and appreciate all of the issues that brought us to presenting this motion on Friday. I’d hope that they’d come up with a plan to address these real concerns. Mr. Speaker, we want good government -- honest, open and transparent communications -- not backroom deals, half-hearted delays, poor policy and bad communications.

These are the reasons people in the Northwest Territories were upset while Members were upset. Mr. Speaker, as we move forward, the questions and the scrutiny

will be getting much more severe. Mr. Speaker, there will be a tremendous amount of pressure put on Members to work together, as the Premier said, to find a way. Mr. Speaker, I do hope to be a part of the solution as we go forward from here and I look forward to discussions that are going to take place. Thank you.

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Confidence Motion Debate

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

: I would like to recognize some very special visitors in the gallery today. We have10 young women and men who are visiting us for a few days from the Ontario Legislature Internship Program. They are here to observe consensus government in action, and I’m sure, being familiar with the Ontario Legislature, that they will find that we are very well-behaved in here. I want to recognize Emma Stanley-Cochrane, Chelsea Peet, Meghan Buckham, Angela Hersey, Kim Hokan, Tejas Aivalli, Igor Delov, Waqas Iqbal and David Donavon. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly and welcome to Yellowknife.

---Applause

The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to recognize my wife in the House and welcome her to the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Just to repeat, I’d like to welcome the members of the Goyatiko program on languages and interpreters translation. Welcome to the instructors Mary Rose Sundberg and Betty Harnum. Also the students, again: Jeannie Martin, Stella Martin, Margaret Martin-Baillargeon, Nora Crookedhand, Irene Soldat and Alice Wilflad. Welcome.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

I’d like to recognize a friend and classmate in Fort Smith way back when and a fellow golfer, Alex Wilflad.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Monfwi , Mr. Lafferty .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I too, would like to recognize Mary Rose Sundberg and

also Betty Harnum and the students for keeping up the good work continuing with our traditions. Mahsi.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . If we’ve missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the House. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I spoke of the problems that are occurring in the ongoing successful operation of the water treatment plant in Sachs Harbour; problems with freeze-ups and chlorination that are impacting my constituents’ access to safe drinking water on a consistent basis. My questions are for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , the Honourable Robert C. McLeod . Can the Minister tell me in this Assembly: what is this government doing to address the issues that affect the operation of the Sachs Harbour water treatment plant?

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to assure the Member and the residents of Sachs Harbour that the government takes the issue of safe drinking water very seriously and we’re committed to finding resolution for the issues that have been plaguing this plant in Sachs Harbour as soon as we can. Right now we’re working with our partners at Public Works and Services at identifying the solution for the intake pipe to the water treatment plant. We’re at the design approval stage right now and hopefully I’ll be able to provide the Member with more information when that becomes available.

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thanks to the Minister for that information. I’m pleased to hear that DPW and MACA are working closely together on providing a solution to this issue.

On the issue of the boil water advisory, can the Minister tell me when we expect to lift the ban on the drinking water?

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, we’re waiting right now for the hamlet to complete some remedial work at the plant and in the water delivery truck itself. When we get two clean water samples

in a row, the environmental health officer will more than likely remove the boil water advisory.

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

The Minister answers and speaks to the issue I raised in my Member’s statement and that’s that everyone, including the hamlet staff, have a role to play in the delivery of our safe drinking water and share some of the blame for the current situation. Can the Minister tell this Assembly what the department is doing to support the hamlet in acquiring the necessary training for the hamlet staff in dealing with the operations and maintenance issues?

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, our partners at Public Works and Services are working to make sure that all the equipment in the water treatment plant is functioning. As far as MACA goes, MACA is always working to ensure that water treatment plant operators are trained in the operation of the plant and ensuring standards can be maintained.

MACA is contributing significant resources, as far as this goes, and this is one of the benefits of having bundled water treatment plants, where you have the water treatment plants in each community that are pretty well the same and you train one community plant operator and then they can basically answer questions in the other ones. It’s all interchangeable parts and everything. I think that would be a good thing for the future of water treatment plants.

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Question 74-16(3): Water Treatment Plant In Sachs Harbour

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Justice in regard to my Member’s statement in regard to the NWT Exemptions Act. In relation to this legislation, like I said in my statement, was that it was basically enacted in 1948 and it’s still pretty well in the books on what was stated, which talks about items that basically, when you talk about livestock, you talk about bees, you talk about fowl, waterfowl I suppose. I don’t know what that’s all about, but again it’s so outdated it doesn’t really meet the reality of the Northwest Territories today.

One of the first things that was done in Nunavut, once they became a Nunavut Territory, is they made amendments to that legislation. I’d like to ask the Minister of Justice exactly what the government is doing to speed up or make amendments to the NWT Exemptions Act so that the people that do file for bankruptcy realize they are going to be going

through a tough time, but also ensuring that we have bankruptcy legislation that’s similar in other jurisdictions and other territories across Canada so that they can also get a fair break realizing that they are going to be going through some tough times. I’d like to ask the Minister of Justice , where are we in this legislation? How soon are we going to bring it into the House?

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister of Justice , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

Monfwi

Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, this act that the Member is referring to does go back to 1948. There has been one minor amendment in the 15th Assembly. The Member is quite correct about

meeting the standards of today’s modern legislation act. One of the exemptions announced that it refers to is that it does not reflect our cost of living here in the North and also does not include categories that are standard in other jurisdictions. The Member has also alluded to other jurisdictions, as well, with their acts. So, certainly, my department is doing their research. We’re in the process of amending the act as we speak. I’m glad Mr. Krutko brought this to our attention a couple of weeks back and we are in the planning process of making some amendments.

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my opening comments, there are certain maximums on the exemptions such as $600 in regard to different types of equipment; $3,000 in regard to loss of your residence; and also household items, furniture, appliances, $200. I’d like to ask the Minister, in regard to the amounts that are present in the legislation, probably the closest legislation to reflect us is Nunavut, and I know they did increase those fees up to, I think, $35,000. In Alberta it’s $40,000. I’d like to ask the Minister, are you also looking at those fee structures that presently are in place and comparable to other jurisdictions? Thank you.

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

Monfwi

Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Justice

Certainly we need to compile what the other jurisdictions have in place. With respect to Nunavut, the current legislation that they have, the changes that have been initiated, certainly we’ll take those into consideration; Alberta, as the Member indicated, and other jurisdictions as well. We realize that the act is outdated and we need to make some amendments. Based on the outcome, we will certainly make some changes to that act.

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister how soon can he bring this legislation back to this House so that we can deal with it. Supposedly we can have it ready for the May session or even looking at the fall session. I hope we can get it in sooner than later, because we realize the urgency of this legislation in regard to the difficulties that we’re seeing in the Northwest Territories with people losing their jobs, losing their

livelihood. I’d like to ask the Minister how soon…If we put a rush on this, can we get it back into the House?

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

Monfwi

Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, certainly we need to work with other jurisdictions compiling that information, but the ideal plan is to deliver this legislation by this summer in this House.

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I only noted two jurisdictions and I think I posed the jurisdiction that really reflects the Northwest Territories is Alberta, which is basically our neighbour to the south. I’d like to ask the Minister if he’d seriously consider implementing the Alberta legislation in regard to property real estate and also looking at similar economies that we have here in the Northwest Territories and Alberta. Thank you.

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

Monfwi

Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, certainly Alberta experience and also the legislation will be part of our ongoing discussion and amendment to our current act that we have in place, along with other jurisdictional documentation and their acts which will also come into play throughout our discussion with our department. We will certainly bring it forward to the standing committee on a moving-forward basis. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 75-16(3): Archaic Bankruptcy Legislation In The Northwest Territories

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, as a follow-up to my Member’s statement, I have questions for the Minister of MACA on the need for drainage in Lutselk’e. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of MACA tell me when the last drainage study had been completed in Lutselk’e? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have that information right now, but I will be sure to gather the information and relay it on to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, can I get the Minister to commit to either completing the study or updating the study this spring? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, once we see the study, I can commit to the Member that we will work with the community to upgrade the study

once we find out where the study is at. We will commit to working with the community on the upgrade because, at the end of the day, it would be a community responsibility to do some planning with the drainage, but MACA will assist the community any way we can. Thank you.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for me to think of a more important issue to all of the community of Lutselk’e than theft. That was a major issue during the time I was campaigning in Lutselk’e and also in my follow-up visit. I would like this study or any plans falling out from the study not to be a prolonged process. I am not sure if the Minister will be able to do this, but just for the record, I would like to know if the Minister can tell me if a technical plan can be completed to allow materials to do the actual work, to enable us to allow the materials to be shipped into Lutselk’e this fall. Thank you.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, first of all, we have to find the plan and then we’d have to work out the details as to the financing and who is going to be responsible for financing the work that is supposed to be done. Again, we go back to the fact that the communities now are more in charge of their own infrastructure and they decide how the money is going to be used. MACA’s role is to assist them technically any way that they can. Thank you.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I already know that the community doesn’t have enough money in the new plan to do this work. The communities with the new plan do have difficulty expanding beyond what seems to be a fairly standard infrastructure or mobile equipment type of expenditures. I am going to ask the Minister again...For more expediency, I think some of our issues here in the government have been that the community waits for a long time before projects get on the books and even longer for the projects to actually start.

Can the Minister tell me that he is prepared to meet with the local government to actually start plans towards trying to put some money together so that work can be done in Lutselk’e on that issue as soon as possible? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, we talk about dust, and I have lived in a small community for a number of years. I am well aware of the spring runoff and things like that. I will make a commitment to the Member that we will try to put something together as soon as we can, to sit down with the community at the end of the day. MACA will meet with the community at their request. Being a band community, we usually have to work with the band quite closely with anything that goes into their

community. We will make an attempt to engage with the band and be able to find us some time to sit down and see if we can put something together as far as the study goes and the issues facing the community. Thank you.

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Question 76-16(3): Need For A Drainage Study In Lutselk’e

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on my Member’s statement to the Minister of Transportation . Any time I do my tours for my communities, for Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte, they often raise the question about the runway lights because they are there every day. They see the need for it. In fact, a few opportunities were missed that they could have benefited from using these runway lights. I would like to ask the Minister, how much work has been done to date in identifying communities or the funding resources toward establishing runway lights for the smaller communities? Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is an issue that has been ongoing for some time. We have had a number of discussions with the Member and also the communities involved and concern over the safety of our aircraft landing in our smaller communities where the runway lights are not always operational and where that could leave our aircraft as it comes into the community for a landing. We have had many occasions where these lights were vandalized and other occasions where the operators did damage to them. We can’t really depend on them being a safe form of providing lighting, flare pots were considered adequate.

We plan to continue to use these as a form of lighting for our runways until we can come up with something better or something that would be more reliable. Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, damages can occur for many reasons such as animals as well, but despite that, our communities would like to see these runway lights. I would like to ask the Minister to begin deliberations for the 2010-11 budget to establish runway lights for two of my smaller communities. Can the Minister do that, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, to replace these lights, the cost factor is an issue. For the replacement of lights in these small communities for the airports, the price tag on replacement is around $300,000. In both of the

communities that the Member has raised, we replaced lights on a number of occasions. We have another community in his riding where the lights have been damaged three times over the last year and a half. It has become a very big concern. It is a safety issue. Until we can find a way to work this through or find a system where the lights are not continually damaged through either the maintenance of the runways or vandalism, we will have to continue to depend on flare pots, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, the communities report that the infrastructure is basically there but there is certainly damage. I don’t think we are reinstalling new runway lights, but more or less fixing what is there, Mr. Speaker. Once again, I would like to ask the Minister to consider the request of the community and look at putting this in the 2010-11 budget year. Will the Minister commit to that? Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated before, the lights have already been replaced on a number of occasions. The cost factor is getting to be very huge. We have one community in his riding where they have paid for the repairs of the lights. We would certainly consider that if the Member would be willing to talk to the leaders or we can talk to the leaders to see if they would be interested in doing so. I can certainly provide them with the information on how much it costs and maybe if we shared the responsibility or looked at a way through this, that the community would bear the burden of the cost, we certainly can consider it. Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What can this Minister commit to to help our community?

---Laughter

The request is simple there, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister to consider the needs of the smaller communities’ infrastructure there. Can he look at re-establishing runway lights in these communities? Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

I certainly can commit to the communities continuing to use their flare pots…

---Laughter

…and having the people in the communities to put these in place whenever there is a need for the aircraft to land in the time of darkness. Other than that, Mr. Speaker, we are very reluctant to do it on a continual basis where the lights are damaged from improper care or maintenance or vandalism. It

has become very costly and it is not something we can afford to do over and over again. Until we can find a better system, that is the only answer I can give him. Thank you.

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Question 77-16(3): Need For Airport Runway Lights

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 78-16(3): Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement today, I talked about the issue of abandoned gas stations and the environmental liability that that could potentially pose to a community. Mr. Speaker, I can easily ask this question to MACA under Commissioner’s land and about how to deal with land. I think it is better suited under ENR, with that Minister, under environmental protection. So I wouldn’t want the other Minister to get off easy here today. Mr.

Speaker, my question to the Minister of ENR is, would they take a look at the situation by coming up with regulations that if a gas station closes with no plan to reopen, within a year they have to start remediating that site to make sure that there are no contaminants left in the ground and we do this in the interest of the public? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 78-16(3): Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 78-16(3): Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I will commit to work with the department and other related departments that have an interest in this, with MACA and such, to get a common briefing note to find out what the issue is, where the gaps are and what are the potentials to close those gaps. Thank you.

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Question 78-16(3): Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, that was fine.

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Question 78-16(3): Environmental Remediation Of Abandoned Gas Stations

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services as a follow-up to my Member’s statement. During the debate on the Supplementary Health Benefits Program, it became clear that, although they were prepared to review the program, which is obviously great, the Minister and Cabinet are still committed to the concept of means testing. In the absence of any research or financial analysis, I am

confused by his position, to be quite honest. I was wondering if I can get the Minister to please help me understand why Cabinet is so committed to the concept of means testing, especially in the absence of any financial analysis, the information needed to make reasonable and sound decisions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, I believe in all of our discussions in the House and listening to the Members and the public, I have stated that we have listened. We understand that there is a lot of work that needs to be done. We are taking it back and putting it under full review. I am not sure if we are just debating on semantics. I want to reconfirm to the Member and this House that I have already directed the department to review the changes proposed. We expect that we have to do a lot of analysis before they get brought back. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I have to admit that I am still confused. I still don’t quite understand how anybody can make decisions and commit to things like means testing in the absence of financial information such as financial analysis. The Minister has indicated in the debate that they are still committed to affordability, which includes some level of means testing. I was just wondering if she can help me understand that aspect of their argument, why they are still committed to means testing while they go through this review. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, we are examining the policy, the changes. I am not going to put anything off or on the table. I think that the message is loud and clear that we need to review the program changes. The government is undertaking to do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you for that response from the Minister. I am curious. Does that mean that the government and Cabinet are no longer committed to means testing and that any policy they bring forward will go through a thorough research and analysis which includes the possibility of no means testing on the supplementary health benefits when it does come forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

We will look at all aspects of this program. Mr. Speaker, I think there is still a good analysis we need to do to know how to address the situation where, under the existing program, while a family that makes $50,000 gross are having to pay some of the benefits, but somebody who is making $150,000 net might not

have to. I just want to let the Member and the public know that the government is taking these program changes back. We are going to review it from top to bottom and we pledge that we have to have very good financial analysis to bring them back. I am committed to working with the stakeholders and the Standing Committee on Social Programs on the process and the substance of this review. There should be no question about our commitment to make sure that we have reviewed this program again to see how we can make it work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again, thanks to the Minister for that. It still doesn’t sound like there is any commitment that means testing is completely off the table, but I will leave that one alone for now.

In the motion we talked about timing. Is the Minister now ready to commit to pushing off the implementation date of this program to no sooner than April 1, 2010? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

We received the motion on Friday as a recommendation from this House. Cabinet and I, as Minister, are reviewing that recommendation. We will communicate back to the Member as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Before I go on, colleagues, I am concerned. I have noticed one Member using a BlackBerry in the House. Our rules do not allow BlackBerries in the House. I would request the Member to remove any BlackBerries from the House. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, my questions are addressed to the Minister of Health and Social Services . At the risk of being repetitive, I am kind of on the same wavelength as my colleague, Mr. Abernethy . As I heard the Minister answer questions earlier last week, the Minister to me…I heard her state that the intent of the policy as passed by Cabinet in September of 2007 will remain the same. If the policy is not up for review, it is my feeling that we will have some residents in our Territory who are going to be paying more for supplementary health benefit costs than they do at present.

When this change takes effect in April 1, 2010, can the Minister promise that an NWT resident will not pay more for supplementary health

benefits than a resident anywhere else in Canada at that time? Thank you.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that answering that question yes or no could predetermine the review process. Really, I just want to make it clear that we have heard loud and clear that the packages as they are presented were inadequate, and are in need for some real sound financial analysis and justification. We need to go beyond the changes proposed on the implications. There are myriads of issues and concerns that we have been hearing since we launched in December, 2008.

It was suggested this morning that we should cease to implement that. I think putting off the effective date has effectively done that. I am committed to...First of all, we have to set out a process on how we are going to review these, and I expect I will be coming back to the Standing Committee on Social Programs on that and I am open to making sure that the review is full and comprehensive. I don’t want to put anything on the table or off the table. As it is now, until that policy has changed, the policy intent is there but it’s just not effective until it becomes effective and the date right now is September 1st . I just want to reiterate that I am

open to full review and we will make whatever changes are necessary upon that review, but I don’t want to predetermine the outcome of that review. Thank you.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I guess, perhaps, we talk an awful lot about the intent of the policy. Maybe I need to ask the Minister, and I will ask the Minister, what exactly is meant by the intent of the policy? Does that mean that we are trying to cover the lower income end of our workforce or does that mean, as well, that we are going to use a means test in order to try to pay for the extra cost that’s being incurred? So what is the meaning of the intent of the policy? Thank you.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

The intent was not to make some part of our population pay for those who we are hoping to include that are currently excluded. The intent of the policy, as it was approved in September of 2007, is that we need to add an affordability or an ability to pay or inability to pay as one of the factors in determining eligibility. Now, I have committed that we will review this scenario because we have heard loud and clear about concerns who we are including, who we are excluding, who we are expanding it to, what are the cost implications, near and far on a number of issues. So I am committing to the Member, and again to this House, that I am going into this

process open minded and I would ask Members to do the same and I haven’t got a predetermined position on that. Thank you.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I guess, if I hear the Minister properly, then the intent is not to have -- to go back to my first question -- some residents in our Territory paying more than residents in other parts of this great land and other parts of Canada. To the Minister, we have talked a lot about the policy and the intended policy changes to cover people at the lower end of the workforce. I would like to ask the Minister what is the estimated additional cost to provide this coverage to the lower income end of our workforce? I would like to get a number, please. Thank you.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

That’s the kind of number that we need to update and verify because remember this policy was approved back in 2007 and we need to work out numbers and obtaining and confirming and getting better and more blue chip information, as they say, to learn more about this policy, and changes will be the important part of this exercise. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister for the answer. It’s about what I expected. I would have thought that that information would have been available to us now if we are going to be putting a policy in place and we expect that there was going to be an additional cost. I would have thought that cost would have been known upfront. That said, when will the Minister be able to provide that number to Members of this House? Thank you.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, I need to correct that also. The Member said in her last question that from what I am saying, no one in the Territories will pay more than what they are paying in the southern jurisdictions. I have no idea to determine that right now, because the packages that we offer under the Supplementary Health Program are very different than a package of programs they offer down south. For example, homecare is included as supp health in Yellowknife or in the Territories, which is not the case down south.

Mr. Speaker, the reason why we don’t have an exact number as to exactly who is going to benefit with these changes and how much that is going to cost is because of the fact that we’re dealing with a population that comes and goes. Health programs are demand driven. Once you set a policy on who is eligible, whoever is eligible under that criteria will come in and benefit. Right now, under these program changes, we are trying to include those who were not included before. But until they come

and benefit from it, we aren’t going to know exactly how much that is. We will provide the Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs, as we move forward on this review process, some of the numbers in income levels, age breakdown, what we are offering under supplementary health right now, who we expect will get into the new program. We will come with all this information so that the Standing Committee on Social Programs can give us feedback on how we move forward from here as we start the review. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 80-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, one of the things I could have included in my list of reasons why the motion came forward on Friday was power rates. I have been hearing from a number of constituents, people who live in apartments, Mr. Speaker, are paying over $300 a month for power rates. When the latest increase to power rates came up and the GRA was approved, it was because oil was $140 a barrel. People could buy that. The interesting thing is, though, people were told because consumption was down.

Now, consumption is down for a reason; it’s because people are putting in energy efficient appliances, they are changing their light bulbs, they are conserving energy, but I think the government, the Power Corporation and NUL should have been upfront with residents of the Northwest Territories that if you conserve power, you are going to pay more and that’s exactly what’s happened. It’s had a perverse effect, Mr. Speaker.

The first question I have for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation is when are residents going to get some relief from the high rates they are paying and now that oil is hovering around $40 a barrel? When are these rates going to be rolled back to give our residents some relief?

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Northwest Territories Power Corporation, Mr. Roland .

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Power Corporation rate, general rate application that went in, was to pay for fuel that was purchased not this season but the season prior to that to make up the loss there. So we would see, as we go through refueling, the cost would be looked at again and most general rate applications come on a three-year cycle. So we would have to look at those costs, but again the general rate application that went forward to the PUB that was approved was based on previous year’s costing off fuel supplies, and most of our communities that are

run on diesel are refueled once a year and that affects those communities. So it would affect on how we would move forward with any numbers.

Meanwhile, we are doing work on the discussion paper that was launched around our rates and generation distribution. Thank you.

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I don’t believe we can wait three years for another GRA. I believe people are having a heck of a time paying their power bill and if someone in a one bedroom apartment in my riding is paying over $300 a month for power, I can’t imagine what people in the smaller communities have to pay for power. Even my own power bill at my house has gone up 30 percent, Mr. Speaker. Like I said, I want to ask the Premier , the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation , can he instruct the Power Corporation to give some relief next year? People cannot afford to wait three years, Mr. Speaker. Can it happen next year? It should happen next year. Thank you.

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Members are aware that the general rate application or any rate changes in rate structure are very complicated. It’s not a matter of a Minister standing up and saying this shall be done. We have to work through the legislation through the Public Utilities Board and establish the cost if there are cost savings, we could look at doing something, making a change. Some of the rate riders that have been put in place that also affect the cost of that power as they’ve reached their target goal of the revenue that was being sought, would drop off as well. I can get back to the Member if there are any of those in place and when those might be able to drop off. Thank you.

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Like I said, if we wait three years, my fear is we are going to lose residents. I already know many people, given the current state of affairs here and the cost of living, are packing their bags and heading south. If we don’t take this concern seriously, more people are going to leave. Paying a power bill of $300 for living in an apartment is very expensive and people can’t continue to pay these high rates of power.

I’d like to ask the Premier , who gave permission...and the one thing people have trouble with is we’re still paying these bonuses to the staff at the Power Corporation in excess of $600,000. When people see those bonuses being paid and then they’re paying this $300 a month for an apartment dweller, I mean, hey, come on, now. They should be ashamed of themselves and we should get some relief for the residents. When is it going to happen?

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

The Member had a couple of different items there in that last question, whether it was a bonus issue or the general rate

application and when there’d be some relief. We haven’t identified a time of relief. All the rate structures and processes in place would require us to go back to the Public Utilities Board.

As for the bonuses in that area, that falls under the authority of the board itself.

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If you go by the logic that the Minister uses on power rates and if we wait three years can residents in the Northwest Territories...Let’s say oil stays at $40 a barrel. Will residents three years from now see a 30 percent to 40 percent decrease in their power rates? I don’t think so. Like I said, we run the Power Corporation. The people of the Northwest Territories own that power corporation and if we’re not going to do anything about it, nobody is.

I’d like to ask the Minister if he will instruct the NWT Power Corporation to cease these bonuses that are paid to their senior staff and roll rates back now that oil’s at $40 a barrel.

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

The Member continues to use today’s price as to why the general rate application was put through. The fact is the purchase of the fuel at the time was much higher than today’s environment. We cannot compare those two. That would not be doing justice to the issue that residents face in the Northwest Territories. We do see the power as a very serious one in the Northwest Territories. That is why the discussion paper has gone out about the rate distribution and the subsidy that is in place. Also, through this budget process that will be in front of Members to look at alternative energies and how we get that in place to help the cost of living issues in the Northwest Territories.

There are a number of things that this government and the Assembly itself is looking at to try to stabilize rates or find a way of lowering them and try to come up with some solution. As I have committed, if there are rate riders in place, depending on which communities to see when we might meet that target, I can get back to Members as to when some of those might be able to be dropped off.

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Question 81-16(3): Relief From High Electrical Power Costs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

The community of Deline has been asking and been getting some support from the territorial government in terms of pursuing a mini-hydro project in the mouth of Bear River. It’s

been a fact that eight communities rely on hydro development along the highway system. There are 23 diesel communities. So far what I’ve heard from the Minister of Finance when he addresses these two communities that are in his address that list Lutselk’e and Whati as diesel communities that would look at alternative power in that community.

I want to ask the lead Minister in the Energy Coordinating Committee, is Deline getting the same kind of continued support in terms of being one of the diesel communities that are off the highway system to get continued support to look at the possibility of having a mini-hydro plant at Deline?

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister responsible for Energy Initiatives, Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can assure the Member from Sahtu that we have provided for funding to look at providing mini-hydro in the Sahtu at both Deline and Tulita and it is in the detail of the budget that the Minister of Finance read out.

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

As the Minister has indicated, I would certainly add support to continue with our hydro development on the Bear River. We know right now today as it stands that the Bear River dam is probably not a very good project to put on the table in terms of our people with respect to the pipeline, but the other issue is the Deline mini-hydro project. I know this project has been in the books with Deline and the government 16 years and yet we’re not seeing too much of the standing stages in terms of construction of the Deline mini-hydro.

I would ask the Minister if he could sit down again with the Deline people and this government and put some real dollars so that we can see a mini-hydro plant within the life of this government at Deline.

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

The NWT Energy Corporation, with the support from Department of ITI, has been working with the community of Deline in conducting feasibility studies for a mini-hydro project. Funding was provided this year to the community and the issue seems to be coming up with a viable project proposal. The community of Deline, as the Member knows, has been looking at a hydrokinetic proposal. The issue seems to be whether the scale of the project that’s being proposed, whether the technology is proven to allow it to go forward.

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

The Minister is very correct in terms of the viability of this UEK turbine for use on the Bear River. Deline is looking at 200 kilowatts. The UEK turbine tested, I understand, could be a possibility. That’s been tested at the University of

Manitoba is my understanding. Deline, as of January 2009, has found two locations, one in Mississippi in the United States and one in B.C., that could look at this technology as being viable for the community of Deline at this location. The numbers seem right by this company in B.C.

Can the Minister commit to have his people go into Deline to sit down and work out their differences, to sit down and say we can have a work plan in terms of having a mini-hydro project in Deline? Can the Minister commit that to me in the House?

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We’re quite prepared to go and consult with the community. I know the community has proposed two locations where they indicate that there are technologies at work. Also, more recently there’s been an announcement that in Ruby, Alaska, they are putting in place a hydrokinetic option. So we’re quite prepared to work with the community to look at these different places.

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Question 82-16(3): Proposed Mini-Hydro Project In Deline

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Certainly the people in the community of Deline will be very pleased with what the Minister has indicated today in the House in terms of looking at viable options. Can the Minister commit within the life of this session here that he will get his officials in Deline to come together and work out a work plan? I know that’s asking maybe too much in terms of what we have of a time frame here, but to commit to the people in Deline that we can look at this viable option and have some dollars committed to in terms of developing and putting a plant on the Bear River for Deline.

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