Debates of Oct. 21st, 2005

This is page numbers 449 - 470 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was education .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Graduation Levels For 2004-2005 School Year

Update On Early Learning And Childcare Negotiations

Minister Absent From The House

Colville Lake School

Alzheimer's Society Of Alberta And The Nwt

Calculation Of Workers' Compensation Benefits

Day Care Service In Lutselk'e

Adult Literacy

Policing Our Small Communities

Fiscal Responsibility

Student Financial Assistance Program

Recognition Of Inuvik Pages

Tribute To Hay River

Strengths And Weaknesses Of Consensus Government

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Liard River Ferry Services

Colville Lake School Expansion

Using Northern Construction Firms

Corporate Tax Overpayment

Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Adult Basic Education

Northern Contractor Participation In Housing Initiatives

Housing For Pre-trades Entrance Program Students

Employment Insurance As Income

Colville Lake School

Tabled Document 51-15(4): Photographs Of Colville Lake School

Tabled Document 52-15(4): NWT Human Rights Commission 2004-2005 Annual Report

Tabled Document 53-15(4): Package Of 45 Letters Of Complaint Regarding Liard River Ferry Dispute

Appointment Of Electoral Boundaries Commission

Appointment Of Conflict Of Interest Commissioner

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 449

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, Members. Welcome back to the House. Members, before we begin today, my office has been informed by one of our colleagues, Mr. Pokiak , that he has lost one of his older sisters, Ms. Annie Noksana, who passed away quietly and peacefully in Tuktoyaktuk. I would like to pass on the House's condolences to Mr. Pokiak and his family on the loss of his sister.

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 49-15(4): Graduation Levels For 2004-2005 School Year

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 449

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Good morning, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, in June of this year, communities throughout the Northwest Territories honoured their high school graduates. At the time these events were taking place, members of education authorities and educators told me that this was a banner year in terms of the number of students meeting graduation requirements. Now that the official numbers are in, I can confirm that, indeed, graduation levels were higher during the 2004-2005 academic year than they have ever been.

For reporting purposes, graduates are counted as of September 30th each year. During the past year, there were 343 high school graduates in the Northwest Territories. This is an increase of more than 50 graduates over last year and, based on preliminary population figures, represents a graduation rate of 51 percent. Previously, the highest rate for graduation in the NWT was 45 percent.

It is important to note that the increase is primarily the result of more students graduating in our smaller communities. In 2004, communities outside of Yellowknife, in the regional centres of Hay River, Fort Smith and Inuvik, produced 69 graduates. That number increased to 107 in 2005. Legislators, educators and administrators can be proud that the actions that have been taken to enhance community-based education activities and to complete grade extensions are resulting in more students accessing high school programs and completing their studies.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to note that the number of aboriginal graduates from our schools has increased substantially. In 2000, 30 percent of all graduates in the NWT were aboriginal. This year, 49 percent of all graduates in the Northwest Territories were aboriginal.

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the students, their families, educators and education authorities in the Northwest Territories on their successful effort. Their collective contributions have demonstrated how commitment and hard work can pay off.

I look forward to working together with our partners to build on the successes of the 2004-2005 academic year and to continue to improve and strengthen the results of the school system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 49-15(4): Graduation Levels For 2004-2005 School Year

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 449

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 50-15(4): Update On Early Learning And Childcare Negotiations

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 449

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have heard a great deal in this Legislative Assembly, since the beginning of this session, about the need to invest in early learning and childcare programming. The Report on Pre-Budget Consultation, prepared by the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight, discussed, in some detail, the needs in our communities with respect to these programs.

Like most Canadians, northern residents welcomed the federal government's commitment to provide funding to enhance the early learning and childcare environment. The promise of funding to achieve a national vision is exciting. It was our intention to utilize this funding to focus on increased training opportunities for childcare workers and increased eligibility for parents wanting to access day care subsidies.

This week, I attended the federal, provincial and territorial Ministers of Social Development meeting to discuss the early learning and childcare negotiations with Minister Ken Dryden. Unfortunately, our negotiations with Ottawa have been very disappointing. Despite our significant efforts to secure an adequate funding arrangement, the federal offer remains unchanged and, therefore, unacceptable to

the Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut governments.

To participate fully in this program in a way that ensures we can provide a level of comparable service to our residents, the Northwest Territories needs funding based on the fiscal reality of delivering programs and services in the North. The federal offer, as put forward by Minister Dryden, based on a per capita allocation, is woefully inadequate and is based on a lack of understanding of the realities of northern life.

Mr. Speaker, the position of the Government of the Northwest Territories on this issue is consistent with the approach we have taken since the inception of this Legislative Assembly two years ago. We believe that this program should be provided on a base plus basis, similar to other federal programs.

Mr. Speaker, without a funding agreement that provides an adequate level of funding, residents of the Northwest Territories will not see the same level of improvement in early learning and childcare that will be seen in other parts of the country. Mr. Speaker, this is completely unacceptable.

Mr. Speaker, the government will not accept an agreement that means our residents will not be treated the same as other Canadians. It is clear that we have gone as far as we can to resolve this issue with Minister Dryden and his officials. The next step is for Premier Handley to raise this issue with Prime Minister Martin at their next meeting. We are hopeful that the Prime Minister will take steps to resolve this issue so the children and families of the Northwest Territories will receive the same level of service as all other Canadians.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the support of, and advice from, the Members of the Legislative Assembly as we work to resolve this issue. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 50-15(4): Update On Early Learning And Childcare Negotiations

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 450

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 51-15(4): Minister Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 450

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Michael Miltenberger will be absent from the House today to attend a federal/provincial/territorial Ministers of Health meeting in Toronto. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 51-15(4): Minister Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 450

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I tabled a letter from the Colville Lake District Education Authority on October 18, 2005, in the House. That letter outlined several concerns that the district education authority has with the adequacy of the program space, classrooms and lack of sanitary facilities in the Colville Lake school.

There are 41 people, 36 students and five staff, in that building approved for an occupancy load for 40 people. One room teaches kindergarten to Grade 12. The lack of space is such that one teacher teaches in the cloakroom, just a few feet away from the honey bucket. Mr. Speaker, I would maintain that this is not conducive to a good learning environment, nor is it really healthy. In fact, it's outrageous in this day and age. It's a crying shame, Mr. Speaker.

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

Some Hon. Members

Crying shame!

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

A crying shame that we have to put our students in this type of building.

In examining the history of an addition for the Colville Lake School, I know the project has been delayed, and reduced in scope, since 2000-2001. That's five years, Mr. Speaker. It went from a $1.5 million addition to be concluded in 2005-2006 in the 2000-2001 Main Estimates, to a modular classroom, at the cost of $448,000, to be delivered in 2007-2008 in this year's main estimates. In fact, Mr. Speaker, at one point in the 2003-2004 Main Estimates, the project did not even appear in the books for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

The capital standards state the number one priority is life, safety and health concerns. I think that a -- and I do note the word "a" -- honey bucket may qualify as a health concern in schools. Also note that the capital standards also called for separate bathrooms for each of the sexes, built to current building concerns.

Mr. Speaker, with the amount of concerns that the DEA from Colville Lake has with the current school, I am expecting to be one awesome modular classroom. Just so people understand, modular classroom is just another way of saying portable classroom. I don't believe it's possible to complete a portable classroom to meet the program requirements in Colville. A portable...

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Yakeleya , your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. A portable classroom may have a lifespan of 20 years. It makes more sense to renovate and put an addition onto the existing structure. I will have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Colville Lake School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Alzheimer's Society Of Alberta And The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 450

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to talk about a disease that affects an estimated 280,000 Canadians and can strike adults at any age. It

affects one in 13 people over the age of 65, and there is no known cause or cure. The disease I am referring to, Mr. Speaker, is the most common form of dementia, known as Alzheimer's. This dreaded affliction is a progressive, degenerative disease that affects the brain and, eventually, all aspects of a person's life, from mental abilities, emotions and moods, to behaviour and physical abilities.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to know that there is some help and support for people in the Northwest Territories who may be affected by this disease. The Alzheimer's Society of Alberta and the Northwest Territories was created in 2002, due mainly to the efforts of Marjorie Sandercock, who is currently the chair of the Yellowknife chapter. Other members I would like to mention include: Krista McLean, Jan Stirling, Linda Henry, Barb Bromley, Esther Braden, Wendy Carter, Lib Lowing and Mabel Collinson.

One of the main aims of the Alzheimer's Society is to develop awareness of this dreaded disease. Last year, the YK

chapter partnered with the city library to create an Alzheimer's Disease Research Centre at the Yellowknife Public Library. These resources, which were funded by Health Canada, are available throughout the NWT.

The Yellowknife Alzheimer's

chapter has also been part of an annual fundraising event across Canada called Coffee Break. For a few hours during the day, all proceeds from coffee sales at various venues are donated to the Alzheimer's Society. This year, the group has brought in close to $1,300 from coffee breaks at BHP, Diavik, the Gourmet Cup and at the Baker's Centre.

This coming January, the Yellowknife

chapter will be promoting a stage play to heighten Alzheimer's awareness. Directed by Chris Foreman, who will also be acting along with Erica Tesar, Strangers Among Us is a play about Alzheimer's disease. It will be presented at the Baker's Centre, and I encourage everyone to go out and support this worthy group at that time by attending this event.

On a much larger scale of support, Mr. Speaker, I encourage this government to continue to move forward with its plans to build a dementia facility next to the Aven Centre. This is a much needed facility in the Northwest Territories that will specifically cater to those affected by Alzheimer's disease and other dementia. Currently, these people are housed in the hospital or other facilities that do not meet their needs. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Alzheimer's Society Of Alberta And The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 451

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Ramsay .

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Alzheimer's Society Of Alberta And The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 451

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The dementia centre is a much needed facility not only for the people with these diseases, but for the caregivers who, over time, can face burnout from the constant care and vigilance that is often required. I would like to thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your time today.

---Applause

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Alzheimer's Society Of Alberta And The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 451

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Calculation Of Workers' Compensation Benefits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 451

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, Mr. Speaker. The issue of unresolved workers' compensation claims of injured workers has been the subject of many of my statements and questions. For some injured workers, Mr. Speaker, through our process, it has become a never-ending treadmill of appeals and systemic process. For a number of these workers, when they think they are getting ahead, wouldn't you know it, but along comes some rule changes.

Mr. Speaker, just to explain briefly, if a worker is injured on the job, they expect to receive a disability pension, or allowance, depending on their injury, for the time that they are not able to work. In order to determine the amount of this compensation, the WCB takes into account their finances for a year, and a calculation is done on whatever their earnings or remuneration were.

Now in the NWT, Mr. Speaker, and Nunavut, we have a lot of seasonal jobs, like firefighting, mineral exploration, fishing and trapping, and they are the only sorts of income for some people. As I said, a lot of them are very seasonal by nature.

I am advised that Newfoundland and Nova Scotia do include employment insurance earnings in the remuneration calculations in the case of workers who may get injured on seasonal jobs.

Mr. Speaker, there have been a number of cases before the WCB Appeals Tribunal on the issue of whether or not to include employment insurance earnings. In fact, this tribunal has ruled in favour of some workers, with regard to the inclusion of EI. Once again, when workers think they are going to receive fairness and justice, guess what? Those rules get changed.

The WCB Governance Council, in September of this year, revised a policy redefining remuneration that specifically excluded employment insurance from the calculation for these workers. In addition to that, they backdated it, Mr. Speaker, all the way back to 1977. Mr. Speaker, this action flies in the face of tribunal decisions and, indeed, in the face of the high number of seasonal workers in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, and it's time that this policy was revisited. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Calculation Of Workers' Compensation Benefits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 451

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Day Care Service In Lutselk'e

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 451

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about the day care arrangements that the residents and the children of Lutselk'e are faced with every day. This issue has been brought forward by other Members, and also is an important topic in the pre-budget consultation report that was tabled in the House earlier this week.

Mr. Speaker, I will again talk about, and remind the Members opposite about, the unsafe, unhealthy and unstable conditions these kids and staff are dealing with every day. Unsafe conditions exist in the large community

hall that these kids are brought into every day, and at times there is still heavy equipment left out from the previous night's meetings. There are many hiding places small children can find interesting, and there are many other distractions the staff have to be wary of just for the safety of the children. It's healthy because, at times, the hall is not cleaned from the previous night's late meetings, leaving this task to the day care staff. It's unhealthy because of the detection of radon underneath the building several years ago that has still never been addressed. It's an unstable environment the day care has to be concerned about during the day.

The community may have unscheduled meetings that require the use of the hall that day, leaving the day care with no options but to close the doors for the day, disrupting the work schedules of these working parents who are trying to earn a living in a small community.

Mr. Speaker, I want these concerns not to be taken lightly by this government. It is not only an important concern of Lutselk'e, but in many other northern communities that are struggling to make day care service a reality. In Lutselk'e in particular, Mr. Speaker, there are empty housing units that have not been occupied for at least a year and may be empty for another year or two.

I hope that this government, the Housing and Education Ministers in particular, can put their heads together and hammer out some temporary arrangements to allow the use of an empty housing unit to be converted and utilized as a day care facility. It would eliminate many of these unsafe, unhealthy, and unstable concerns, and put parents' minds at ease, even if for a few months, while, at the same time, a long-term arrangement can be developed and implemented to the satisfaction of the Lutselk'e residents. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Day Care Service In Lutselk'e

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 452

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Adult Literacy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 452

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I speak about the importance of literacy. Literacy is helping people understand and use information. Somewhere, with functional literacy, people should be able to understand and reply to letters, complete forms, and apply for jobs and have the skills necessary to function effectively in a society.

During the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight's pre-budget consultation, the NWT Literacy Council made an excellent presentation to the committee. Some of the statistics on literacy were shocking, Mr. Speaker. Thirty-three percent of NWT adults have less than a Grade 12 education, Mr. Speaker. The situation is even worse for aboriginal people in the North. Fifty-five percent of aboriginal adults have less than a Grade 12 education, Mr. Speaker.

Another important measure for literacy is Grade 9 education. Again, aboriginal adults are far worse than non-aboriginal counterparts. Over 25 percent of aboriginal adults have less than a Grade 9 education. In smaller communities, this approach is 30 percent, Mr. Speaker. In Yellowknife, this is less than five percent.

Mr. Speaker, the needs are, clearly, strongest in the smaller communities, yet the Aurora College program is highly focused on three major campuses. That will be Yellowknife, Inuvik and Fort Smith. What is needed in the NWT is a concerted effort to set up adult education programming in small communities.

Mr. Speaker, I suggest that Aurora College needs to go beyond the current ABE programming. We need to prepare the people of the North for pre-trades certification programs, and also management diploma programs. Every five years, Aurora College prepares a corporate plan that identifies the priorities for the next five years. That is currently underway, Mr. Speaker. It is great to see. But now they can hear the people, the public, and what the communities want the program to deliver.

Mr. Speaker, my suggestion is that Aurora College should get to our communities to identify the needs, and to set out short and long-term goals and objectives, based on the community priorities. People in the communities know what they need and what they want. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Adult Literacy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 452

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Policing Our Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 452

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today I will be addressing community policing concerns raised by my constituents and the residents all throughout the North. Several years ago, particularly in the 14th Assembly, the small non-tax based communities met with the special committee members to discuss this issue. All remote communities indicated that safety of residents and community policing was the highest priority. There was a case where a victim was so injured that he could not even walk to get help. Even this did not get the police to their community. That was pointed out in the final report by that committee.

Today, Mr. Speaker, these same problems still exist. The community of Nahanni Butte has lodged complaints of two incidents over the course of this summer, where the police were called and did not arrive for some 48 hours later.

Mr. Speaker, in all cases in small communities, police are never called frivolously. They were called because safety of residents and people were threatened. I recognize the enormous demands placed on our policing services in the North, and the safety of our residents is our government's number one job. I do not believe that, when assessing any emergency policing situation in our small communities, remoteness should be a factor. I do not believe, Mr. Speaker, that cost of travel should be a factor. At the very least, attention must be given as soon as possible.

Our constituents must trust that we will always receive this type of attention, and that we will always be there for them, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Policing Our Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 452

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Fiscal Responsibility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 453

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my Member's statement is about fiscal responsibility and how it relates to the repayment of corporate income tax overpayment.

As all Members of this House know, we are well aware of how this Assembly has the unfortunate task or, I should say, the burden ahead of us in the next year to repay the federal government close to $300 million for its corporate overpayment tax that dates back to 2002.

This can no longer be pushed back or ignored by this government. When the last government realized -- that is the 14th Assembly -- over four years ago that it received an overpayment of corporate income tax of over $300 million, they had some tough choices ahead of them. But they decided to spend it, Mr. Speaker. They knew that spending it wouldn't fall on their government. It would fall on the government that followed them to pay it back.

Mr. Speaker, decisions like that, treating it like an interest-free loan, was not responsible. Mr. Speaker, the government of that day, the 14th Assembly, spent like it was footloose and fancy free, spending with no regard to who has to cover the payment. I am not sure that they were hoping that; either they were thinking or hedging their bets on the fact that they would get a resource revenue agreement or whatnot, but, unfortunately, it is time to pay. If they were hoping that pennies would fall from heaven, and their bacon would be covered, well, unfortunately, it is our bacon that has to pay the piper.

Mr. Speaker, that is not fair of the last Assembly to put that burden on this government. We now have to be smart and a lot wiser with our fiscal policies. I compliment Minister Roland on his fiscal work that he has done, but we need to go one step further. Waiting for a grant from Canada, as they often talk about our resource revenue sharing agreement, is like having them dangle a carrot in front of us. It is there, but it just seems to always be out of reach.

Frankly, Mr. Speaker, I am tired of waiting for that resource revenue agreement, but we have this burden in front of us. Mr. Speaker, we need a sound fiscal policy that says when we realize we have an overpayment of some sort, we clearly set it aside and not put that burden on the next government to figure out how they should pay for it. The government of the day with the overpayment looks like the heroes, and the government that has to pay looks like zeros.

So, Mr. Speaker, in closing, I will have awe-inspiring questions for the Finance Minister . I know he will be really receptive to the points I make. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Fiscal Responsibility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 453

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 453

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak on the administration of the Student Financial Assistance program. Although I believe that the SFA in the NWT is one of, if not the best in Canada, there are still some problems with the administration of the program. Inuvik, Hay River, Norman Wells and Fort Smith are some of the larger regional centres in the NWT outside of Yellowknife, yet there are no offices in these communities that have decision-making authority. Everything has to go through an office in Yellowknife that is far removed from the regions.

Mr. Speaker, just to give you an example of what I am speaking about, I have a constituent who went to school in Fort Smith, and he was transferring to Edmonton. He had verbal approval to bring his truck and his belongings down, and they would pay his way home. He gets down to Edmonton, and he gets told that they are not going to pay his way home, because it wasn't where he was going to school. It cost $128 less to go from Edmonton to Inuvik than it would from Fort Smith to Inuvik.

I just think, Mr. Speaker, if we had regional staff who had a chance to know their clients, and they were empowered to make decisions in these kinds of cases, we might get more sensible results. Even the student financial assistance board, Mr. Speaker, has no members from outside of Yellowknife. Is Yellowknife the only community in the NWT with the college? Mr. Speaker, I am not here to knock Yellowknife, but too many decisions made for the rest of the NWT are done here, and they should be at the regions. We should have regional offices that have the authority to make decisions that are affecting these students.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Thank you.

---Applause

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Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 453

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Recognition Of Inuvik Pages

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 453

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I won't be following on my colleague's statement about student financial assistance.

---Laughter

Instead, with it being Friday and knowing that the Pages that have been serving us here in this House for the last week are from Inuvik, I thought I would just recognize their efforts and the time they have spent with us. I have heard from many Members how they liked the service they provided, and how polite they are. That shows you that the students from Inuvik are representing their community well here. I would like to recognize the six Pages we have here. Both Mr. McLeod and I joined our efforts together to make sure we had a full complement.

They are: Hayley Rodgers; Alyssa Ross; Kaylin Horassi; Angie Donley; Jessica Wilson; and Laska Edwards. I would also like to thank Mr. McLeod's CA, Meeka Kisoun, for supporting them and making sure they met all their school work while they were down here, as well as kept them safe while they are away from their parents. Thank you.

---Applause

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Recognition Of Inuvik Pages

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 454

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Member's statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Tribute To Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 454

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I wanted to talk about one of my favourite subjects: Hay River.

---Laughter

In a couple of weeks, I will be coming up to 31 years in Hay River. Over those years, I have been involved in many aspects of life in Hay River, so I can say, with some authority, that Hay River is a great place to live, to work, and to raise a family. There are so many things to be involved in. If volunteering is your thing, there are a host of opportunities to join the large community-minded people in Hay River.

If you are a sports enthusiast, we have it all from a beautiful golf course with real greens in the summer, to our well-groomed cross-country ski trails in the winter, to hockey for all ages, to just about every other kind of organized sport that you can think of. If you are a nature lover, we have beautiful walking trails close to the picturesque Hay River, or walks along the miles of sandy shoreline of Great Slave Lake.

The cost of housing and living is probably the lowest in the Northwest Territories. We have lots of developed and serviced land for sale. We have great transportation connections -- centrally located on the South Slave highway system -- and affordable options for air travel, whether you are going north or south.

Mr. Speaker, I could go on and on. I could tell the good people of the Northwest Territories about things like our new aquatic centre, our diversified economy, our Arctic College programs, just the good people who live in Hay River. But, Mr. Speaker, I would encourage anyone who hasn't visited Hay River lately, to do so. Instead of driving right by in Enterprise, just turn left and come down. We will be hospitable and we will show you around. Check it out! It is a great community to visit. It is a great community to call home. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Tribute To Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 454

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Strengths And Weaknesses Of Consensus Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 454

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in this House, we take pride in having a consensus style of government where the Members on both sides are supposed to work together to achieve things for the benefit of all our people. When it works, Mr. Speaker, it is really the best form of government, in terms of giving the strongest voice to the smallest constituency of the Territories. But when it doesn't work, Mr.

Speaker, it functions like nothing but a majority dictatorship, where the government knows it has the numbers, and they plough through with their agenda without listening to any input from the Members on this side or the concerned public out there. People are feeling like this is what is happening lately, whether it is the issue of the day care closing, or the nonchalant and no-big-deal attitude about moving money and projects on a political whim.

Mr. Speaker, in the whole debate about Novel housing, the Minister of Housing has the audacity to get up and say, that we have no home building capacity. No one in the North could do the job. He doesn't even care enough to take a few minutes to meet with local builders with proposals.

Mr. Speaker, I suggest the Minister and Cabinet get themselves a little bit of modesty and humbleness, and start listening to the people they are supposed to serve. Mr. Speaker, since the Novel housing issues were raised in this House, I have received at least three calls from people in the North who say they can do the job. There is a business in Hay River, for example, who is actually building trailers and exporting to northern Alberta. He submitted a proposal to the Housing Minister and the Premier last year and has not heard a thing; not even a thank you note.

Mr. Speaker, I urge this government to start acting like a responsible and a responsive government, not an arrogant dictatorship of majority. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Strengths And Weaknesses Of Consensus Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 454

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Strengths And Weaknesses Of Consensus Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 454

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 454

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Members can see, we have a lot of people in the gallery today. We have about 60 students from William MacDonald.

---Applause

I cannot name all of them, but I know they are all very special. They are a Grade 7 social studies class, Mrs. Gale Martin's class, and someone well known in this House, Mr. Radcliffe's Grade 7 class. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to recognize Pat, my foster doll Pat from Tuk, who is sitting there with Cathy Olson. Also in the gallery, although I can't see her, is Lynda Sorensen, who is well known in the Assembly, a former Member from Yellowknife. She is visiting her family in the city. I think she is in the gallery. I would like to welcome everybody to the gallery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 454

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 454

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize some visitors from the Alzheimer's Society of Alberta and the Northwest Territories: Linda Henry; Mabel Collinson; Lib Lowing; and Esther Braden. Welcome. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

Bill Braden

Great Slave

I, too, would like to welcome all the youth who are here today. It is great to see people, that generation, paying attention to what is going on in here. I would very much like to welcome the folks from the other spectrum of the generation...

---Laughter

...our seniors. It is just a great pleasure to welcome my mother, Esther Braden.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a long-term community resident and leader, and now a resident of Weledeh, Ruth Spence.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to introduce someone in our gallery from Inuvik, Ms. Meeka Kisoun, with her baby.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we missed anybody in the gallery today, welcome to the Legislative Assembly. It is always nice to see a full gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to welcome all the students to the House proceedings today. My question is for the Minister of Transportation . As of yesterday, the ferry operations ceased in Fort Simpson. I would like to ask what the department is going to be doing about continuing the ferry service in Fort Simpson. Thank you.

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Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday we indicated to the House that the ferry was going to be shut down yesterday evening. That did happen. The contractor did park the ferry at 6:00 p.m. yesterday, so the service was discontinued. Operations are now suspended until further notice. We are considering the actions of the contractor to be a breach of contract and have notified the contractor, or are in the process of notifying the contractor, that it is so. We will look at ways to continue the service sometime early next week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear that the department is looking at some type of plan to resume service, but next week may even be too late, Mr. Speaker. I have been receiving phone calls from some families, that their propane tanks are at 10 percent. The way propane works, Mr. Speaker, is that at the 10 percent level, the tank is empty. There's a truck waiting on the other side. Can the Minister look at resuming services as soon as possible? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have spent a lot of time looking at the different ways we can have the service back in operation, and the time frames around it. Early next week, Monday or Tuesday, is probably the earliest we're going to be able to get the service back in operation, if we can get it back in operation. That's all I can commit to at this point, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As well, I have been receiving numerous enquiries about the ferry being actually shut right down. As the Minister is aware, we have freezing temperatures, and a big concern is that our ferry, our piece of equipment, will freeze up and be irreparably damaged, that it won't be running next week. I would just like to know what the department is doing about saving our piece of equipment from freeze-up. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is our concern, also. We had some of our people, our staff, go onto the boat last night, and we are taking the steps to ensure that this vessel is safe. It is an asset that is owned by the government, and we will do everything in our power to make sure that it's safe and the security is there. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 455

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche . Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my statement, I talked about the Colville Lake school and the situation that is happening there now. Mr. Speaker, last year Colville Lake historically graduated one student from that school, and they are expecting to graduate another student this year. Over the next three years, Colville Lake is expecting to graduate three students, and will have about 15 new students coming into that school. Mr. Speaker, the project has slipped many times in the Department of Education, in reducing its scope.

I want to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , what's the rationale the department uses in changing this crucial project from adding on to the existing school, to now having portable classrooms delivered in Colville Lake? Thank you.

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Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the credit of the families in the community, there has been tremendous growth in the population in that school. In the year 2000, there were only 19 students using the school, when we first started talking about an addition. But as the Member has pointed out, there is some pressure to move very quickly on this issue, and a plan to add to that school would probably be time consuming and relatively expensive, because of the nature of that school. It's not a regular shaped building, Mr. Speaker. It's a log structure, which is really quite striking, and has a number of different sides.

I can't remember; I think it's six different sides. So it would be difficult to add to.

In order to accomplish the desire to get the space in the community as quickly as possible, the decision has been made to bring in a modular structure. We will be looking at ways to attach the two buildings together, so that the children don't have to go outside.

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Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, because of the number of students we have in the gallery, I want to make a quick reference. Of these 60 students, if we took only 20 out, and we put all those students in one building, from kindergarten to Grade 12, that's what the children in Colville Lake are faced with. In this time and age, Mr. Speaker, that's just totally unacceptable. So I would like to ask the Minister, can he state, for the people of Colville Lake, that their school, where they send their children each school day of the year, does the school in Colville Lake meet the current standards set out by his department? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure. I can't answer that question. I would doubt that it does. Having seen the school myself, I would expect that that probably doesn't meet our current standards, and we are moving to put the addition in as quickly as we can.

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Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that's totally unacceptable from the Minister of Education to have that type of response to the people of Colville Lake who send their children to school each day, that has a honey bucket that they're using in their school -- the kids are overflowing in that building -- to say he's not sure of the standards that are set out by his department. So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if he can tell this Assembly whether or not his department considers the use of honey buckets in the GNWT educational facilities meets the capital standard that his department has formulated. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the community of Colville Lake started up as a community where the people said they wanted a traditional community. They, still today, don't have a water plant, so we don't have an ability to put in water and plumbing in that community. We understand that that will be installed by MACA within the next year. The modular classroom that we're going to add to the facility there will accommodate modern facilities to take advantage of the water plant that's being installed in the community.

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Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have always said that the community of Colville Lake is a long way out of Yellowknife; it's far away. So sometimes it's out of sight, out of mind, for the people in Colville Lake. If they want to maintain a traditional economy, I support them 100 percent. For a traditional lifestyle, I support them 100 percent. But it's unacceptable, in this day and age, when we have education facilities such as are built in and around the Northwest Territories, that we cannot fix Colville Lake in terms of the use of the honey bucket.

Can the Minister tell us, short of moving the honey bucket to an outhouse in the community, what is the department doing to alleviate the space in the Colville Lake school, to advance an affordable school this year in Colville Lake on the ice road? That would certainly help the people in Colville Lake. Can the Minister inform me? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 456

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure that we can meet the timeline that the Member has asked for, in terms of getting it on the ice road this year. The department will be meeting with the DEA, and with the residents of Colville Lake, to talk about how we can plan to bring the two structures into one unit. We will do our best to advance things as much as we can, but I can't guarantee that we'll make it on the ice road this winter. We will certainly make it a priority to look at whether we can do that, though. Thanks.

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Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further to my Member's statement today, I would like to pose my questions to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I made a statement about the fact that there are a lot of small businesses and northern businesses who go through the ups and downs of running a business in the North, where everything is high. But they stick around, they pay their taxes, they employ our people, they train our people, in the hopes of taking advantage of an economic boom.

One of the things that's going to happen when the pipeline comes is that there's going to be a real potential for building houses. The Minister of Housing is not only not looking at the North, but he won't even meet with people who come to tell him about a proposal. Could I ask the Minister why he refuses to meet with northern contractors who could possibly do the job? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have met with people in the private sector; I've toured different plants in the territory; and I've talked to a lot of people in the private sector about coming forward with a proposal that's a good business case and has financially sound information in it, so that we can proceed on pilot projects. I have not received anything from any of these companies to date, yet they're asking for $3 million to make an investment from this government, with no documentation to back that up. So unless we get that documentation, we will continue to talk with other interested parties.

I know that I mentioned that there are interested parties from Hay River talking to companies down south to look at the possibility of developing portable facilities in the North, so that they can construct these facilities in the North, and it has to be accessible to the transportation links in the North with regard to the pipeline project. The effect of that project will be up and down the valley, and it has to be assured that those communities up and down the valley have access to these programs. That's the whole emphasis behind this program.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I have been talking to those individuals. I have toured their plant. Again, we're waiting for correspondence to come back from the different parties. Thank you.

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Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have to wonder why the government thinks it would be a great idea to invest $26 million in an ATCO/Novel project in Calgary, but thinks that that's an unreasonable thing to consider a $3 million investment. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know, from the Minister, in exactly what way he communicated to these companies that he's looking for a proposal. Was it a letter? In exactly what form did he invite these people to submit a proposal? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, just to clear up the Member's issue regarding the $20 million, we have made no investment in this project. The only time there will be a financial investment will be at the end of the pipeline project, when we will consider looking at acquiring these facilities. So there is no investment by way of dollars switching hands here. It is not going to happen for the next five years.

Right now, it's basically a concept that's being put forward, which is unique in regard to the possibility of having a way of solving our housing crises up and down the valley. I think, in order to do that, we have to think outside the box of how we are going to meet our housing crises in the Northwest Territories, where we have communities with almost 80 percent core need for housing, and in most aboriginal communities, which consists of 20 of our communities in the North which are aboriginal, we exceed 35 percent core need.

We have to solve that problem, and we can't do it the way we're delivering programs today where we're building 50 houses a year. We have to have a way of dealing with the crises that we face going forward.

As I mentioned, in four years, if we continue to deliver the program as we are, we're going to need 4,000 houses in the next 10 years. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 457

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't appreciate the Minister burning up question period time without answering my questions. Mr. Speaker, my question is very specific. There are builders all over the North -- in Hay River, in Yellowknife, and other places -- and let me just talk about the one in Yellowknife who is willing to use people who are in our correctional centre. He is willing to train people. He has built houses. I want to know, very specifically, how and when is the last time he talked to the builder in Kam Lake about how he could get involved in this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, again, I met with the individual a year ago. Basically, at that time, we asked him to put a proposal forward. It has to have a good business case behind it, and it has to be financially sound. That was the offer given at that time. To date, we have not received any correspondence regarding that proposal. So unless we have a proposal, we don't really have anything to talk about. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was there in the tour with the Minister. I recall a proposal, but I may be wrong, so I'd like to ask the Minister, when is the last time, or in what form -- in a letter, e-mail, phone call -- did he communicate to that business in Kam Lake, that we have this investment opportunity in the government, and what can you do, is submit a proposal. I want to know when and how. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, we have staff in our department who deal with the business community in regard to proposals, tenders and whatnot. Right now, we are talking to the individual about the project that we're doing in Norman Wells, with the Metis local in Norman Wells, through the development corporation, and the company she's talking about is part of that proposal. Our people have been talking to them regarding that proposal. So it's not that we haven't been talking to them. If anything, we've been talking with them in the last two weeks, making sure that that proposal is sound and going forward with the partnership that was formed in that case.

Again, there have been ongoing discussions between my office and the individual she's talking about, in ensuring that whatever he does, it has to be on paper, it has to have a good business case, and it has to be financially sound. Thank you.

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Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I may just say I'd like to thank the students for coming today so they can see oral question period, see history being made, and they're part of it today by being in the gallery.

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Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Member for that awe-inspiring question.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, this issue is not a new one. We've been trying to deal with this, and how we can deal with our federal counterparts around this issue. We have looked at a number of issues around our fiscal policy, and what we've looked at putting forward is a fiscal responsibility policy that would look at the overall fiscal situation of the government, our ability to borrow and finance that borrowing.

The issue of the overpayment itself, as the Member stated, was a decision made by a previous government. They were aware of the overpayment, and also aware of the payment plan that the federal government has in place, which is basically a three-year program once it has been identified. That has been flowing since the overpayment has been recognized. We are, in fact, coming up to the final year, where, in the next budget cycle, that overpayment has come due. We can look at ways of doing things differently.

The previous government had looked at it as an interest-free loan and were aware that it would have to be paid back. In fact, we have a fair bit of that cash sitting, waiting to be repaid. Thank you.

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Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To put it in perspective, almost $300 million is approximately 30 percent of this government's budget. By redrafting a fiscal management policy, still doesn't speak to the fact that we're spending money that does not belong to this government. So, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister will not commit to a fiscal policy that stipulates that overpayments be set aside and returned promptly, will the Minister consider a fiscal policy which stipulates that if any overpayment is to be treated as an interest-free loan, as he just pointed out, that money must be specifically voted on in this House by way of a formal motion? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 458

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all funds that come through this government, through the Department of Finance, are voted on in the House. When we present our budget, we present the corporate taxes we receive, our own source revenues, and other fees and disbursements from the federal government. So it does come to this House; it is voted on,

and how we spend that money then is also voted on. So it is taken into account. It's not like we have a separate account sitting on the side that nobody is aware of. All Members are made aware of our fiscal situation, the revenues we have coming in, on that basis.

We have, Mr. Speaker, looked as if we had decided to repay it or use it as an interest-free loan, as had been done in the past. We've looked at our numbers. In fact, our numbers for our fiscal situation, the bottom line, so to speak, would change by quite a small number. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. But we have to consider most loans are paid over 20, 25 or 30 years. This has to be paid back within four years; almost $300 million. Mr. Speaker, this government can never be taken responsibly, until we show that we can deal with overpayments like this in a responsible manner. So we need to be seen as a responsible government, cleaning up the last government's mess. Would the Minister have his officials at least conduct an inter-jurisdictional review of best practices of how federal overpayments are done, and received and taken care of in their provinces? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our fiscal responsibility policy that we put forward to the federal government, and how we deal with the federal government, is based on their terms that this overpayment situation has occurred. They're aware of it; they have the repayment plan that affects every jurisdiction. It's the same plan. It's a three-year plan, and it's also based on your population, of how much is repaid on an annual basis until the third year, which is coming up in the next fiscal cycle we have.

Everything we do is processed in accordance with the rules, and so on. So I think we're of a position, we've taken the situation as we have it, and worked with the federal government, and have been working with them around a number of other initiatives. But when we look at it, we are scheduled for that repayment coming up. We have taken that into account; it's built into our fiscal plan. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think we continue to avoid the fact that we're spending money that doesn't belong to us, and we've negotiated it into an interest-free loan, by avoiding it and putting it as a burden on the next government. So my awe-inspiring question to the Minister of Finance , whom I have a lot of respect for, is, what, then, will the Minister do to ensure that this government will conduct its finances with integrity and true responsibility, and we don't leave the next government and the next Assembly with any type of burden from our willy-nillyness on dealing with interest-free loans? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let me reaffirm to the Member, and this House, and to the people of the Territories, that this government is not dealing willy-nilly with the finances of the Territories.

---Applause

We, in fact, have taken full responsibility for this and have accounted for it. In the future, working with the federal government, if our fiscal responsibility paper is adopted by them, that would give us much ability to look at how we deal with our finances.

Ultimately, yes, as a government, we do have to look at every time this occurs, and in most cases, it's much smaller than that amount, than the $290 million that has been identified; but, unfortunately, this one was a very large one, and we would be able to deal with these on an annual basis without much impact on our fiscal situation.

As I stated, we did look at the options, and did a scenario, and if we decided to pay it back immediately and just sent the money back, what that would do for our fiscal picture. Our fiscal forecast would not change significantly by doing that. But I will, as I have mentioned to the Members in this House, look at what options are in front of us, and what we can do to make sure that the NWT remains in a sound fiscal position. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I look behind me and I see all these students from the school here in Yellowknife, and some day they'll be applying for SFA when they go to college. I'm sure people here wouldn't want to have their decisions made from an office in Inuvik or Fort Smith. So I would like to ask the Minister of Education , why are there no regional offices in the NWT with the authority to make decisions? Thank you.

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Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 459

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, there are no offices in the student financial assistance system that can make decisions that would have changed the situation the Member spoke of in his Member's statement today. The way our system is set, the officers have no power to overrule the regulations, and the regulations have to be followed explicitly. So a more

important issue is, what can we do to make the regulations work for the students? The Member has brought an important issue to light here, where the regulations, in this situation, cost the government more money than if we had been able to do what was probably the sensible thing and pay for the travel. So I have ensured that we are taking a look at how we can address that issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister talks about regulations. I'm sure these regulations aren't written in stone, and I'm sure we do have the authority, or I'd like to know if the Minister has the authority to overrule some of these decisions, based on facts, not on regulations. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, the current situation is that the Minister cannot overrule the regulations. So the way that we deal with issues when they come to our attention, that we have a problem like the one that the Member has brought up, is we look at how we can change the regulations to go forward in ways that we can recognize better results. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister look at establishing regional offices that have the authority to make decisions for the students, once these regulations are changed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have looked at this issue, in terms of student financial assistance officers. Given the nature of the program and how it works, in that all of the applications come in in a very short period of time, typically two times a year, there aren't enough dedicated staff to spread out across the Territories in a cost-effective way. I am certainly prepared to work with Members to see how we can strengthen the work of the regional offices, to make sure that they're working with students to help them navigate their way through the system. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister spoke of dedicated staff across the Northwest Territories. I'm sure there are not dedicated staff or positions here in Yellowknife that could move across the Northwest Territories. So my final question to the Minister, with this particular constituent that I'm dealing with, the Minister says we can't overrule the decision. So will he look into this constituent's concern and make a good business decision, or is this a final decision? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Ministers cannot overrule a regulation like this and change the situation retroactively. I am committed to looking at the situation and making a change to the regulations, to ensure that we don't run into this sort of situation again. My goal would be to establish a policy whereby travel assistance is provided on a cash basis, so that everybody can look after their own travel themselves, and we don't get into this sort of situation where we pay minute attention to where people are travelling from or how they're travelling. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Question 212-15(4): Regional Student Financial Assistance Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. Mr. Speaker, a few days ago, the Premier stood up here in the House and listed up a bunch of folks that the Workers' Compensation Board had consulted with, prior to building a new building. I was surprised to hear that Regular Members of this House were not a part of that list, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board why there was no notice given to Regular Members that the WCB was proceeding with this new initiative. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can only assume that the reason for that would be that the Worker's Compensation Governance Council sees the stakeholders in that operation as labour and employers, and those are the groups that have been consulted. I know that I have talked to the chair, and have invited him to make a presentation to the standing committee here, so they can discuss the issue of the construction of a new facility. Thank you.

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Return To Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 460

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the meeting scheduled for next Wednesday, a briefing between the WCB, the Minister responsible for the WCB, and the Regular Members of this House, only took place after enquiries were made to the Minister's office to make that happen. I would like to mention to the Minister that assessment rates and monies that are paid to the WCB come out of the pockets of employers here in the Northwest Territories, our constituents, who have every right to come and visit their MLA, when they see assessment rates for next year going up.

I would like to ask the Minister responsible for the WCB if his intention was to share these new assessment rates, that are proposed for 2006, with the Regular Members of this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 213-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questio