Debates of Oct. 26th, 2004

This is page numbers 987 - 1012 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

National Students Against Impaired Driving Day

Zero Tolerance Against Child Sexual Abuse

Equal Pay Settlement Agreement

Taxation Of Financial Assistance Provided To Post-secondary Aboriginal Students

Concerns Regarding The Student Financial Assistance Program

Medical Travel Coverage For Students

Enbridge Pipelines Long Service Awards Recipients

Beaufort-delta Legal Aid Services

Hospital Waiting Times

Housing For Teachers In Small Communities

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Emergency Room Wait Times

Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Market Housing Initiative

Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Eligibility For Legal Aid Before A Justice Of The Peace

Update On Disabled NWT Residents In Alberta Facilities

Treatment Of Contractors In Market Housing Initiative

Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Taxation Of Financial Support Provided To Post-secondary Aboriginal Students

Written Question 54-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Written Question 55-15(3): Power Generated At Jackfish And Bluefish Plants

Written Question 56-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Written Question 57-15(3): Benefits From Oil And Gas Exploration

Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Return To Written Question 34-15(3): Fort Good Hope Water Treatment Plant

Return To Written Question 36-14(3): Need For A Youth Centre In Deninu Kue

Return To Written Question 37-15(3): Communities Without Gymnasiums

Tabled Document 85-15(3): Letter From Tulita Teachers To The GNWT Re: Housing For Teachers

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 987

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, Members. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod .

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Minister's Statement 67-15(3): National Students Against Impaired Driving Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 987

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon, I would like to announce to the House that I have proclaimed today, Tuesday, October 26, 2004, as National Students Against Impaired Driving Day.

---Applause

This will be the sixth annual National Students Against Impaired Driving Day in which student organizations at more than 400 schools from every province and territory will participate. This national day of action aims to raise awareness of, and to prevent, impaired driving. In making this proclamation, the Government of the Northwest Territories conveys its support for community-minded youth groups that want to draw attention to the needless tragedies caused by impaired driving.

On Wednesday, October 6, 2004, the Great Hall of this Legislative Assembly witnessed the kickoff of the Department of Transportation's Strategy to Reduce Impaired Driving initiative, STRID. It should be noted that Yellowknife's St. Patrick High School Students Against Drinking and Driving, SADD, under the leadership of teacher/liaison Ms. Michelle Thoms, contributed to the legislative changes that will come into force December 1, 2004.

I would like to especially thank these students in addition to all the students in the NWT. Through their participation in SADD chapters, young adults of the North spread the important message to make the right choice not to drink and drive. I am encouraged by the longevity of the St. Patrick High School SADD

chapter which will be celebrating the 10th anniversary in November during National Addictions Awareness Week. I would like to encourage all high schools in the Northwest Territories to be part of the SADD initiative.

Mr. Speaker, Tuesday, October 26, 2004, is a very important day. Today I would like to take the opportunity to ask every resident of the Northwest Territories to stand behind the commitment of the SADD students and their promise to educate their peers about this very important issue. These students will persuade drivers of every age that drinking and driving is a bad idea. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 67-15(3): National Students Against Impaired Driving Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 987

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Zero Tolerance Against Child Sexual Abuse

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 987

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to take a few minutes to recognize and honour those in our neighbourhoods and communities who are victims of sexual abuse and who are suffering silently. I would especially like to honour the stories of those who are victimized as children and let them know we, as a society, demand and accept nothing less than zero tolerance against any kind of violence, especially when it comes to sexual violence or violence of any kind against our young and innocent children.

Mr. Speaker, I don't believe there is any task more important for people who sit around this room and for leaders in our communities than protecting our young children. When we fail in this regard, we, as adults and as public persons, all have to take our share of collective responsibility for that.

On this day I want to, in a very public way, send a private message to each and every one of the victims out there and say to them that it is never your fault when adults around you and adults you trust violate you physically, sexually, mentally, or in any way that makes you feel inadequate or makes you feel less than the perfect little person that you are. It is the adults who are to blame. I want to also say to them very loudly and clearly, Mr.

Speaker, that we understand profoundly that it takes enormous strength and courage for any victim of child abuse and child sexual abuse to speak out about what was done to them. I want to tell them that they have the right to find their own time and place to tell their stories in ways that feel right to them whenever and however they are ready. We honour them for that.

Mr. Speaker, I want to further tell them that when they do speak up, we, as a society, will listen to them and that we will have laws and other mechanisms in place that will confirm, once again, that we, as a society, believe, practice and enforce the principle of zero tolerance against any violence, especially against our children. Even if, along the way, we find disappointments in telling their stories and having their stories taken seriously, and even when, at times, it is just too painful to keep speaking out, I want to tell them, please don't be discouraged and please don't stop because if you believe and we believe,

you will eventually have your say and justice will be done because there are many adults who are here to help you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Zero Tolerance Against Child Sexual Abuse

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 988

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Equal Pay Settlement Agreement

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 988

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. In 1989, the Public Service Alliance of Canada filed an equal pay or work of equal value complaint against the Government of the Northwest Territories. The complaint alleged that the government had broken the Canadian Human Rights Act by paying men more than women in similar jobs. In June of 2002, three years later, this government, the Public Service Alliance of Canada, and the Canadian Human Rights Commission agreed on a deal for GNWT unionized employees regarding equal pay for work of equal value; an historic settlement, Mr. Speaker. It recognized that both former and current workers, regardless of gender, deserved the same pay for the jobs they performed.

The settlement recognized our obligation as an employer to compensate employees between 1989 and 1998, and resulted in a government-wide re-assessment of the value of many jobs our civil service performs. The settlement applies to both casual part-time, as well as full-time employees. An estimated $50 million was set aside for the total settlement. Some $23 million of that was distributed by the time of the settlement in June of 2002.

Mr. Speaker, a deadline of December 31st of this year, two months from now, was set for application for those who had not received their compensation. Our government undertook to contact those who had not applied and, understandably, some employees were not captured in the search process. The chance for them to find out if they are eligible runs out in two months. I am told there are still hundreds of names on the casual employee list who could be eligible.

Mr. Speaker, tremendous effort and expense went into this historic settlement. It seems many who should get their rightful share of the $50 million allocation have yet to file. I will be asking the Minister about our progress to date and what is being done to make a final call for the workers at the appropriate time today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Equal Pay Settlement Agreement

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 988

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Taxation Of Financial Assistance Provided To Post-secondary Aboriginal Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 988

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to talk about the financial assistance First Nations students receive for their post-secondary education.

Mr. Speaker, starting in the year 2007, the Canadian Revenue Agency will be issuing the first T4-A tax forms to First Nations students who have received money from their bands for their college and university education. By doing this, the federal government is treating post-secondary student financial assistance as a taxable income and is demonstrating a lack of regard to First Nations treaty rights.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is taxing the educational funding which struggling students have accessed, which include tuition fees, book allowance and living allowance, scholarships, bursaries and travel dollars that will result in well-rounded and well-educated people upon the completion of their studies, ultimately for the benefit of the country but especially for the benefit of the treaty aboriginals themselves and the people that they represent.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to reiterate that a responsible federal government looks after the regular people they are serving that make up this vast country.

It is the responsibility of this government to lobby the federal government to not treat post-secondary education assistance programs for treaty Indians as a taxable income, and to remind them to recognize and respect this right that has already been established when the first treaty was signed and has already been proven in our Canadian justice system and perhaps focus their attention on taxing the faceless corporate giants who are always overlooked when federal taxation proponents rear their ugly heads as persons receiving what I consider negligible benefits given the conditions that they had to endure to be considered eligible for such a benefit.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Taxation Of Financial Assistance Provided To Post-secondary Aboriginal Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 988

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Concerns Regarding The Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 988

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to speak today about student financial assistance and some of the problems that constituents of mine and many others are having with the way in which policies and rules are enforced.

I have a constituent who ventured south to attend college for the first time last fall, after attending school here from kindergarten to Grade 12. This person was enrolled in six courses in the first semester. When they realized six courses were too much for them to handle, it was too late to withdraw. This young person gave it their best attempt and passed three of the six courses. They then went on and passed all of their courses in the second semester. This individual came back to Yellowknife for the summer to find employment and to earn some money to go back to school.

What they found when they returned home was a letter from Education, Culture and Employment advising them that: a, they are on suspension for one year; and, b,

they would have to pay back the money that was given to them from the previous year. Talk about a low blow for a student that is planning on going back to school.

Mr. Speaker, this young person who, as I said, has gone to school their entire career, kindergarten to Grade 12, in the North, is trying to get an education to come back to the North to be a productive citizen here. They can accept the fact that they are on suspension for SFA; that is one thing. Mr. Speaker, what they can't accept is the fact that they are being ordered to repay these loans while still at school.

Mr. Speaker, I find it unacceptable that students are being asked to repay loans when they are still at school. This is unfair to these students who are really only trying to better themselves with an education. It is quite a nice gesture by the Government of the Northwest Territories to waive interest charges for the first year. However, a $5,500 bill to a student is too much for most to handle or for most to cope with. There has to be a better way to address concerns like the one I have mentioned, and other colleagues before me have spoken about the same concern. It is not a new problem.

The appeals process goes by the book. I am suggesting that the department not be so rigid, Mr. Speaker, and show some flexibility and show some compassion to the students who find themselves in this unfortunate type of situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Concerns Regarding The Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Medical Travel Coverage For Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to address an issue that has recently come to my attention through one of my constituents. This concern is related to medical travel benefits and coverage of these students while attending school outside of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, for instance, say a student is studying in the south at a college or university recognized by NWT Student Financial Assistance as a qualifying educational institution.

Assuming this student has submitted a signed temporary leave of absence form and has done everything necessary to remain insured with NWT health coverage, this student would receive basic insured benefits. Now, assume that this student finds it necessary to travel to a larger centre for medical treatment while attending school. Would they be covered under medical travel? The answer is no. A student does not receive medical travel benefits because the travel is not considered as originating inside the Northwest Territories.

Students are not travelling on vacation or just visiting outside the Territories for a week or two. A student is still a resident of the NWT. They retain their northern residence as their primary address and continue to use their NWT driver's licence. Most students return to their home community for spring break, reading week, as well as Christmas vacation and the four months during summer and fall semester breaks.

In addition to all this, we also anticipate that a number of these students will return to the North to seek permanent employment. Most students rely on student financial assistance, part-time employment and, if they are fortunate enough, their parents are able to help them financially. But they are most likely not in a position to afford costly medical travel insurance. The burden of an unexpected medical trip could financially end their studies for that particular year or longer.

Students who are able to attend one of our northern post-secondary facilities are not faced with this expense and I believe that all students deserve the government's support, as they further their education, in the fair way.

I urge the Minister to review this portion of the medical travel policy with a view to granting medical travel protection to all NWT students while on temporary leave of absence from the Northwest Territories to attend school. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Medical Travel Coverage For Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Medical Travel Coverage For Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Enbridge Pipelines Long Service Awards Recipients

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate three long-term employees of Enbridge Pipelines NWT Ltd. It gives me great pleasure to recognize them publicly for 20 years of service. These individuals are Mr. Mark Gerlock, Mr. Steven Vandell, and Mr. Frank Villeneuve of Fort Simpson, NWT; gentlemen all.

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Enbridge Pipelines Long Service Awards Recipients

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Enbridge Pipelines Long Service Awards Recipients

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

I had the great honour of working with these individuals for 17 years during my career with Enbridge Pipelines and they have offered much volunteerism to the communities in which they have worked. For that I honour them and thank them on behalf of the people and the communities that I represent. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Enbridge Pipelines Long Service Awards Recipients

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Beaufort-delta Legal Aid Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 989

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Honourable Charles Dent , Minister of Justice , was interviewed on CBC Radio on Monday, October 25, 2004, and spoke of changes to the way the legal aid services in the Beaufort-Delta would be delivered in Justice of the Peace Court. A local justice of the peace in Inuvik had expressed concern that the legal aid lawyers would no longer represent people in JP court.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister did say that the court workers would be available for clients at proceedings in Justice of the Peace Court. Now, I realize that proceedings in Justice of the Peace Court are usually not serious, but I am concerned that there may be circumstances where it

would be appropriate for a person to be represented by a legal aid lawyer. For example, bail hearings can be conducted in JP court and I would think that this would be a circumstance where it would be appropriate to be represented by a lawyer. The question then becomes whether the court worker is able to recognize this need and arrange for proper representation.

I am also aware, Mr. Speaker, that some communities do not have a resident justice of the peace or court worker. In these cases, I would assume that a court worker would accompany a justice of the peace and would be available to help persons appearing before the court. The Minister also made it clear in his interview that the Legal Aid office in Inuvik was the only place in the NWT where a lawyer attended a JP court. I cannot understand the Minister's reluctance to continue a practice in one region that is not offered to the rest of the residents in the NWT.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Justice at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Beaufort-delta Legal Aid Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 990

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Hospital Waiting Times

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 990

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to talk about the waiting times in the emergency rooms and our clinics in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, I've heard that you can wait three to four days if you're absolutely lucky to get into an appointment at a clinic. You're lucky to find a spot. Normally you have to wait two, three, and even sometimes four weeks to get an appointment with the doctor in one of those clinics. That's, of course, again, if you're lucky enough to have a family doctor. Mr.

Speaker, at this time, clinics offer you suggestions, if it's a high priority, to march on down to the emergency room, which people do. But, Mr. Speaker, I know even from my own experience, but my constituents are complaining that the emergency room is more like an endurance contest to be able to survive waiting hours on end.

So I can say this from personal experience. But do you know what, Mr. Speaker? There are many people who talk about sitting there for six and eight hours and more just to receive basic care. I've even heard, through my own research, that in Vancouver you can probably get faster service through the emergency room than we do in the NWT. Mr. Speaker, one of the sad things is that we sometimes forget that the waiting in the emergency room just doesn't end there. You're waiting in the waiting room, then you get moved into the examining room and wait even longer.

Mr. Speaker, the problem as I see it is that you could get 100 nursing staff there and that would not solve the problem. The problem is the shortage of doctors in that emergency room making this happen. Mr. Speaker, the way our system is designed, a doctor needs to diagnose your ailment before they can allow the nurses to go ahead and do the treatment. That's the real problem. People are waiting there in dire circumstances for hours on end to be seen. Mr.

Speaker, some of those chairs -- and I can speak from personal experience -- feel more like milk crates as you're sitting on them and I'd like to see a supplementary appropriation someday for lazyboys for the amount of time we're making people wait there. Six and eight hours is truly unfair and unreasonable, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the real emergency is we don't have enough doctors in that emergency room. What would the cost be to offer that service? Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt in my mind that two to three people waiting there hours on end is equivalent to the cost of the service of having a doctor there in real dollars. So I guess I ask, what is the cost of not having more doctors in that emergency room?

Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent at this time to finish my Member's statement?

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Hospital Waiting Times

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 990

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Hawkins , you may conclude your statement.

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Hospital Waiting Times

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 990

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it's a real crisis because real people mean real money and they are just sitting there. That's real time lost to both our government, as well as to our world out there. Mr. Speaker, if someone gets tired of waiting after three, four, five hours...I mean, there are priorities and people understand that, but you have to sign a waiver to leave the hospital now. So people do get exhausted and are taking their kids home because they just cannot sit there.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions later for the Minister, but there are just some points I want to raise in closing. This should be a high priority, not a low priority. What do we need to happen for those low priority people who sit out there for six hours? Do we have to wait until they become a low priority moving to a high priority? Then it won't be a news story, it will be a real emergency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Hospital Waiting Times

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 990

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Housing For Teachers In Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 990

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, gone are the days of the government bringing professionals into our smaller communities, putting them in housing units, pay for their living and working in the North by flying them out on vacation trips and rewarding them for long-time service by keeping them in the communities for a number of years. Mr. Speaker, in Tulita and Sahtu, housing is a crisis for our communities. Schools are losing about 50 percent or more teachers every year. Mr.

Speaker, to be a veteran teacher in the school in the Sahtu or the Northwest Territories, all you have to do is stay up to about three years. You see, Mr. Speaker, finding new teachers is not the problem, it's the lack of consistency with teachers who don't know where they will be next or where they will be living next year. It's been said, Mr. Speaker, that trust building, bonding and respect are the building blocks of any type of educational environment and this is not happening in the Sahtu or in the Tulita school.

Mr. Speaker, for example we have three teachers presently living in our local hotel in Tulita. It's good for our

economy for the hotel yet, Mr. Speaker, we have teachers who have no place to live and we expect them to provide quality education classes for our children.

Mr. Speaker, this is unacceptable for people in the Sahtu and Tulita. Mr. Speaker, some of our teachers are sharing houses, the cost of living is very high in the Sahtu, and another thing is the high cost of taxes. For example, Mr. Speaker, in Nunavut, the Nunavut government has gone to bat and they have subsidized the teachers' housing in that jurisdiction. When will this government stand up and admit that maybe it was a mistake to get out of the housing business and stop this process in the Sahtu? Give our students, our people, the best educational opportunity of their lives, by supporting people who, at ground level, have some level of comfort for teaching. Thank you.

---Applause

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Housing For Teachers In Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. I would like to commend the Members on their obedience to the rules regarding Members' statements today.

---Laughter

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 991

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a privilege and a pleasure to recognize family, as always. Today I am pleased to recognize in the House my mother, Esther Braden, and another honoured senior within our community, Mr. Ed Jeske. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question this afternoon is for Mr. Dent in his capacity as Government House Leader and it follows on my statement about the equal pay settlement that our government signed more than two years ago now. The settlement, Mr. Speaker, set out a deadline of the end of December this year for application by employees who feel they may be eligible. Among its many provisions, the settlement recognized affected unionized employees and obliged this government to try to contact them.

I would like to ask the Government House Leader how successful has the government been in concluding arrangements with the affected employees between the years 1989 and 1998? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand that the equal pay unit has made payments to approximately 80 to 85 percent of the estimated 4,300 former and current unionized employees who would be eligible for these payments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for the answer. The settlement also recognized that casual workers who where employed by this government between that period were also included as being eligible. What efforts have been made to contact these casual workers and how successful has that part of the agreement been? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In terms of trying to contact people, since February through August of this year there was one person whose primary function in the office was to try and locate eligible employees who had not yet been located, and of approximately 900 people for whom contact had not been established, they were successful in reaching 135.

Mr. Speaker, the plans are to run some more advertisements in the very near future to remind people that the deadline for applying is December 31st. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm told that there was one distinct category that had to be created in which to, if you will, park the files of employees whose new positions had not yet been reclassified. This category went by, apparently the number 7777. Employees who may have found their position put into this category, I'm told, may have been overlooked in the settlement process and consequently in the search process, and would not show up on any eligibility lists. Could the Minister confirm that this category indeed was used for this purpose, and what efforts are being made to ensure that those employees are not forgotten by the December deadline? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 991

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Equal Pay Settlement Agreement outlines which groups of jobs are to receive compensation under the settlement, and this agreement is a legal binding

document and is sanctioned by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. Because the settlement agreement does not contain provisions for any payments to employees who are in class code 7777, therefore, the government cannot make any payments to those individual employees. So there is no effort being made to try and provide payments to those individuals because it is outside the scope of what the order is from the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Despite the fact they may or may not have been included in the articles of the settlement, does that mean that they should still be eligible under at least the spirit and intent of the agreement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a result of the order from the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal and their findings, this government has been directed as to how it shall resolve the complaint. That direction is prescriptive and we have to follow what is set out in that approach as it as agreed to by the three parties -- the Public Services Alliance of Canada, this government and the tribunal -- so there is no legal way for this government to even look at going around that and we have not.

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Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services and it is with respect to the medical travel policy that is overseen by his department. Mr. Speaker, I would like to pose a few questions to the Minister just so that this creates public awareness about this and, also, obviously to find out if there is anything that can be changed to fix this discrepancy for our students.

Mr. Speaker, if a student was home during a school break, saw a doctor in their home community who had then referred them for medical treatment which turned out to be scheduled after they had returned to school, would this be considered as being instigated from inside the territory or would it be covered by medical travel? Thank you.

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Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that seems very clearly to me like a hypothetical question.

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Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Some Hon. Members

Ohhhh. Shame.

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Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

But...Hearing silence from the Speaker I will carry on.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, if a student is at home and they are sick and they have to be referred south, if I understood the question, that would be medical travel as far as I am aware. Thank you.

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Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, this student is at home, in their home community, in Hay River -- this is so to make it not hypothetical -- and they have a doctor's appointment and it is determined at that appointment that they need further medical attention, which is not available in their community or in the Northwest Territories. So a referral is made to a southern doctor, but in the meantime the student goes off to their post-secondary education in Grande Prairie. Now, is there medical travel available for that student to go from Grande Prairie to Edmonton for the procedure, as it would have been if they were in Hay River when they traveled? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The question is, I guess, borderline whether it is hypothetical or not, but I'll give the Minister a chance to answer maybe if the policy does address that particular situation. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is asking me for a technical, detailed question very specific to a certain circumstance, and not being an expert on the medical travel detail I am not able to answer that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you. Maybe I could inform the Minister of his policy for medical travel within the Department of Health and Social Services. If the medical travel to a southern institution does not originate from the Northwest Territories, then it is not covered and people understand that when they go on vacation, that's why they buy medical travel insurance, but these students are normally residents here and are out for a very specific purpose: to pursue their post-secondary education. So does the Minister feel that that policy is comprehensive and adequate to address the needs of students attending post-secondary school? Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 992

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mrs. Groenewegen , I'll give you a chance to maybe rephrase your question so that you are actually asking the Minister for his opinion on something. Would you care to rephrase your question, Mrs. Groenewegen ?

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger , revisit the medical travel policy of this government to ensure that students who are attending post-secondary education outside of the Northwest Territories are covered by medical travel? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member has raised an interesting question; one, obviously, that I must become more conversant on. So, yes, I will review the issue.

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Further Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Do you have a final supplementary Mrs. Groenewegen ? Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question will be to the Minister of Health and Social Services and I will refer back to my Member's statement as I've said earlier with my concerns about the waiting period. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is what is the Department of Health and Social Services doing about waiting times and what are they doing to supply reasonable tools for those staff who work there in the emergency room and I consider, at this time, human resources important tools to get the job done? What is the Minister doing about this problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, back in the 14th Assembly there was, I think, over $8 million voted by this Assembly as interim health professions to allow us to better staff our health professions. The majority of that money went into Yellowknife with the nurses, doctors, more specialists. We currently have 29 GP positions in Yellowknife and 22, I believe, are specialist positions. We are also working at better coordinating our referral processes, our medical travel. We are adding nurse practitioners.

So we're investing significantly across the board to deal with waiting times, not only in Yellowknife, but I want to point out we also have significant challenges in small communities where oftentimes we have trouble getting a full complement of nurses where communities are reduced to emergency services because of the inability to get qualified community nurses. So there are challenges across the system and we are making efforts on all those fronts. Thank you.

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can appreciate the fact that the Minister gave me a little bit of a history lesson on the 14th Assembly, Mr. Speaker, but we're a year into the 15th Assembly and I can appreciate that the 14th had priorities as well. Mr. Speaker, I'm talking about real life waiting times. I'm talking about where people have to wait six or eight hours. If you are a mother with a child who has to go get them fed, you just can't sit there and wait; or you're a senior, you can't sit there forever. Mr. Speaker, I'm talking about dealing with the six or eight-hour service delivery.

What is the Minister specifically doing to address those problems? This is the same Minister for the past four years. Could the Minister answer that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Actually, it's only three years, just for the record. Mr. Speaker, I've articulated and tried to lay out some of the things we are doing. The other thing we are also doing is we're looking at right now planning for a major midlife upgrading renovation at Stanton. One of those key pieces being looked at is the emergency room and how it's structured in terms of the actual physical layout. Mr. Speaker, we've also, over the last number of years, put out a book, "Do I Need to See a Nurse or a Doctor?" and it was sent to every household in the Northwest Territories.

Plus we've also instituted the 1-800 number to give 24-hour-a-day access to qualified medical advice for anybody in the Northwest Territories in most official languages, should they need an initial point of call to get an assessment of what the circumstances may be that they think requires medical attention. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister raises a couple good points about the book and the 1-800 number and he's probably very right that they do serve a purpose, because I've even used the book and I haven't had the pleasure of using the 1-800 number yet, but they are services. But, Mr. Speaker, the book has been out for at least two years and the 1-800 number service has been out since the spring of this year. Mr. Speaker, we are still dealing with six and eight-hour waiting periods. Mr.

Speaker, I can't refer to it too much, but there is a survey being done by this hospital at this time and it doesn't talk about waiting times. It talks about satisfaction, cleanliness, politeness, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but it doesn't talk about waiting times. Mr. Speaker, will this Minister address the waiting times that people have to go through sitting in the waiting room and then in the examining room to get services? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 993

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe we are making all reasonable efforts to do just that. Thank you.

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Third supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My apologies, I didn't hear that, but I will go into my last one. Will the Minister be willing to commit to looking into the problem of waiting times, as well as possibly addressing this problem directly by putting another doctor in this emergency room because the nurses need a doctor to do the job that they do? So would the Minister commit to looking at that problem today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we have this discussion and question and answer period in this House there are staff making note of the concerns, and I will make note of the concerns and I will assure the Member that I will be talking about them with the public administrator and the CEO of Stanton to make sure that we are covering and making all reasonable efforts, covering all our bases and if we're not, if there are gaps, then, yes, I will look at how to address and have those filled. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Question 305-15(3): Emergency Room Wait Times

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services . I am very concerned about a problem an elder in my constituency is having with the health care system; more particularly with the long-term home care in Fort Simpson.

He was recently informed that he now owes approximately $4,000 as rent for staying in the long-term care facility. Setting that aside for now, the question for the Minister, Mr. Speaker, is why is an aboriginal elder paying to stay in a long-term care facility? Is this truly a policy of our health care system today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Michael Miltenberger .

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Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the policy is that there is a rent or a cost billed to all those who require and move into long-term care third-level facilities where there is 24-hour supervision. It is a maximum, I believe, of around $700. Thank you.

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Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My concern is that the maximum amount is $700. It is approximately equivalent to what they receive in old age pension, Mr. Speaker. My thought on this is that this is pretty much their last stop on earth. I was just wondering why we are charging our elders to sit out their remaining life. Particularly, for me, I believe that what is going on here is a treaty right. I am just wondering if the Minister cares to respond with regard to that. Why are we offering a service when it should be classified as a treaty right?

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Supplementary To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first, I would just like to point out that we have some of the best long-term care facilities that I have seen anywhere. They come at a cost that will not be bettered in any jurisdiction in this country. The reality is that there was a decision made, I think in the 13th Assembly, that there would be a modest charge for that high level of service in those specialized facilities. That has been the policy that has been in place. It is the one that we continue to follow today. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very pleased to hear that we do offer the best service and one of the best facilities to provide for our elders that do have to end up in long-term care facilities, Mr. Speaker, but I still don't understand why we have a treaty right and our aboriginal elders are having to pay for it. If the Minister could comment on that again, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will commit to the Member to give him the background on the rationale and reasoning for the $750 and the issue of how the issue of treaty rights was interpreted in this particular case.

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Further Return To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 994

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just the fact that, here again, there is an inconsistency where

some seniors or elders that do have the benefit of insurance to cover their stay in these homes, and now we have aboriginal elders who depend solely on fixed income of their old age pensions and we are taking almost all of it away. I would just like to get that commitment again from the Minister that he will closely review this policy of ours and address it as soon as possible. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first I want to point out that, when this fee was instituted, it was clearly anticipated and it was planned to leave the elders sufficient amount of money that they would not be left without any means to have looked after some of their personal needs. So I made a commitment to the Member. I would also like to point out that, under the federal government, it has a fiduciary responsibility for aboriginal and treaty people and Inuit people, so this $750 would be, if they are treaty, covered through the federal government.

I will commit once again in this House to give the Member the information and the background on this particular area and the work that was done leading up to the decision to institute a $750 fee. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Question 306-15(3): Long-term Home Care In Fort Simpson

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are to the Minister of Housing . It is in regards to the market housing initiative. I have been thinking and reread the notes of Hansard yesterday. I must tell you, Mr. Speaker, it is a complete outrage that, in last March, the government told us that the sky will fall if we do not waive BIP and if we do not order 22 mobile homes from somewhere in southern Alberta, Las Vegas 1-800 number, because we had to house the teachers and nurses. The Minister tells us yesterday that only 14 have been taken and they have no idea what went wrong.

How are we ever to accept when government comes and says the sky is falling, we have two weeks to do it and you have no control whatsoever to say yes and we are going to make it happen? Nothing has happened and nobody is responsible. I need to hear more from Minister Krutko . Exactly what is going on? Why are the 22 units not installed? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , the Honourable Mr. Krutko .

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Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I tried to explain yesterday to Members, there have been problems in regards to logistics and in regards to damage to these units in transportation. The damage has been fixed, but that was one of the main delays of the project. It was because the trailers were damaged being unloaded off the barges in Lutselk'e and also in Fort Good Hope. Those are the two communities that have not been occupied today because they are behind on the schedule. The whole project has not been delayed in regards to the people that are applying.

Right now, as of today, we have 16 applicants for 22 units. So, technically, we are short. If 16 people take up those units, we will have six units that are still out there. There are two communities that are still not going to be concluded until November. Hopefully, that helps the Member understand the program as it sits as of today. So we are still looking forward to a completion date and doing a review. Hopefully, that answers the Member's question.

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Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It appears that the Minister is picking out only one of the problems. He said yesterday in Hansard, page 2196, and I quote, "we did have some logistical problems by way of transportation, barging, looking at sites for these units, gravel was a problem...and power hookup." Mr. Speaker, I say that they had problems at every corner and every aspect. I have to ask the question, this decision was made in the previous Assembly. This was not a surprise. The Housing Corporation had at least two years to prepare for this.

If they can't figure out how to hook up power, how to do the gravel, how to even have the lots available, how could we have any confidence that they could deliver anything in the Housing Corporation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

I didn't hear a question there. Did you want to reframe your question? Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, my question is if the Housing Corporation can't do any of these areas, power hook-up, gravel, lots, I think those are pretty essential items of building a house. If the Housing Corporation can't do that, how can we have confidence that they can carry on with the other phases of this marketing initiative program?

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 995

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the reality of the Northwest Territories, the whole problem of logistics is a day-to-day problem. You have to depend on other sectors of our economy to be able to carry out our responsibilities. The timelines that we are facing are almost on track to what was projected out there. The Housing Corporation depends on sub-contractors and other contractors to carry out our responsibility of fulfilling our programs. It was the people on the other side of the House that raised the concern that we waived the BIP because of this contract.

We reinstated the BIP so that we can get a maximum benefit to local communities, local contractors or transportation companies to ensure that 50 percent of this capital expense would stay in the Northwest Territories. That was the other side that asked us to do that. Because we did that, we had to put this work out to contracts, but the contracts were not fulfilled until almost July. In order to

meet this deadline, it caused the project to move ahead. So that, Mr. Speaker, is the reason for these logistical changes, but again, to satisfy the opposition, the people on the other side of the House, the BIP was reinstated to ensure that we get the maximum benefit for northerners in our communities and the money stays in our communities. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It never fails to amaze me how we get these morsels of information in the midst of question and answer period, because it never ever was told to me that BIP was reinstated. How nice to find this out as a surprise at the end of October. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I think there are ample reasons to suggest that the Minister should really look into other modes of providing this housing, because this mobile home idea is not working. If they can't even make it off the barge, I really think it is about time the Minister revisit this. Will the Minister revisit this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, we have committed to do a report back to the House in regards to ensuring that we analyze the efforts to date and that we will put forward a report and carry on. We still have other communities that have the same problem. There is a market challenge in other communities in the Northwest Territories. These are some of the communities. There are still communities out there that have this problem of accommodating professionals in our communities. So it is a problem that won't go away simply by removing this program, but we will assess the program. We will come forward with recommendations on where we go from here. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Minister was not privy to this, but, in the midst of this debate in March, there were at least two NWT business people who do this for a living, who build up trailers. They could do it with their eyes closed. They were not even allowed to bid because the department insisted on going with the Edmonton firm. Would the Minister now look at the local businesses that can do the job and deliver them on time? Would he do that, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe we do have people out there that can do the job. Again, the bottom line is affordability. These houses have to be affordable at the end of the day so that people who rent them are able to afford to pay the rent. That is the other thing we are hearing in the House. They can't afford to rent them. But, it has to be affordable so that these people are able to acquire them. So I am open to a bid process and go with the lowest bid that comes in. Again, it has to be affordable. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment in regards to the crisis issues in the Sahtu, and specifically in the Tulita community school. We have teachers staying in hotels. I want to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment what is he doing with his partners in the Sahtu Divisional Education Council to work with the teachers to see that this issue is resolved and that this won't happen again in the future? Thank you.

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Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , the Honourable Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my colleague, Minister Krutko , advises me that three units will be available for occupancy in Tulita on October 27th, so within the next day or so they should be available and the teachers have applied for residence in those units. Thank you.

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Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the question I am asking the Minister again is what is his department, along with the Sahtu Divisional Education Council, doing in terms of what kind of strategies they have for this issue not popping up in, say, Fort Good Hope or Deline next year? Are they looking at common strategies to work with the teachers at the divisional education authorities in communities to keep our teachers here so this issue won't be raised again next year? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been talking with my colleague, Mr. Krutko , on numerous occasions, as recently as the lunch hour today, about the need for us to coordinate the plan for next year's market housing so that we can find out from the DEAs and DECs where the demand is and just exactly what the demand is for, whether it is two or three bedroom units, but to make sure that we are responsive with what the expected demand is. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 996

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister. When will this strategy or discussion come to the House or come into the Sahtu region for communities to discuss this amongst themselves to see that the teachers don't have to go through this again next year? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be meeting in a couple of weeks with the board chairs for the regions. This is one of the topics that we will discuss at that time. Until the review that the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation is talking about is completed, we won't be advancing very far on this, but I will advise the chairs that we are interested in talking some about it after the review is complete. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister also look at considering the sensitive issue, I know the previous government has made a decision not to get back into the House on this issue with the education or teachers, so would the Minister give some consideration to that issue? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we have no intention of getting back into employee housing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , the Honourable Charles Dent . I outlined a story for him of a constituent of mine who has gone back to school and is faced with a $5,500 bill that is hanging over their head. I am just wondering what Education, Culture and Employment is going to do to try to address some of the students who face this situation that they didn't quite meet the 60 percent mark, but they are still in school. They can understand that they are under suspension, but why don't we call the dogs off on the $5,500 and allow them to continue their education? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when a person is enrolled in an approved institution, they are not required to make payments on the student loan as long as they are considered full-time under the typical requirements of the NWT Student Financial Assistance program. So if a person makes arrangements to continue on their schooling at their own expense, they would not be expected to repay the student loans, for instance, in the subsequent year. If, however, they haven't made arrangements quickly enough, then the debt has been transferred to FMBS.

Then Education, Culture and Employment can no longer have anything to do with the debt to this government because the debt has been transferred from Education, Culture and Employment to FMBS. Arrangements have to be made then with FMBS. I know that FMBS is prepared to consider token payments as long as the will is there to make good on the loan in the long run and there is a demonstration of good faith by the person who owes the money so that they are making what is $25 or $50 payments each month towards their outstanding debt. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, in this instance, the debt has gone over to the FMBS and they are sending notices in the mail requesting payment of some kind. Even $50 a month for a student is a lot to pay, Mr. Speaker. I am just wondering again, FMBS and ECE not really working together. These are real people, Mr. Speaker, with real problems and each situation is unique. I think, as a department, we're trying to send our students out to get an education and come back and be productive citizens and we need to find a way to be flexible.

I know we have rules, I know we have policies that are in place, but we need some flexibility. I'm just wondering if the Minister is -- and I know there have been other cases like this, this is not a new issue -- prepared to have some flexibility in these situations. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 997

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated, in the policy, it is stated quite clearly on page 16 of the Student Financial Assistance Student Guide that if a student comes to SFA, says they've gone back to school full time, can illustrate by filling in form D, that the institution agrees they are enrolled in a full-time program, their loan is put on hold. Now, if that hasn't happened, if the student doesn't work with the department on a timely basis and the debt gets to be somewhat old, it gets transferred over. It's quite clearly set out in the program guides that this is liable to happen.

So students have to be aware that this is a potential and as long as they're working with SFA, they can keep things within Education, Culture and Employment. I believe that right now the system does accommodate individuals who are prepared to work with us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 998

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 998

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering, if a student who is at university or college in the South and on their own ticket, paying their own way because they're on suspension, having the FMBS debt of $5,500 hanging over their head, if they come back to the North next summer and work and then go back to school and they're reinstated in SFA, what happens to that $5,500 debt that FMBS has over their head. Does ECE go back to FMBS and get that back? How is that all worked out if one doesn't really know what the other one is doing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 998

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 998

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, once you owe the money, you owe the money. So that money is not going to be forgiven, it will have to be recovered. FMBS is not going to forgive it either. The student will have to pay that money back because it represents monies that were paid out that they should not have received in the first place. So that becomes a debt to the government which is going to be recovered. FMBS has demonstrated on numerous occasions that they are willing to be very flexible with people who owe this government money when they're involved in programs to better themselves or making productive choices.

So I'm quite confident that FMBS would continue the arrangements as long as the person remains a student. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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