Debates of March 26th, 1992

This is page numbers 464 - 491 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Ministers' Statement 47-12(2): First Ministers' Conference On The Economy

Formation Of Kiguti Dental Services, Keewatin

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O388-12(2): Availability Of Doctors In Inuvik

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O393-12(2): Invitation To Have Dr. Andre Lalonde Appear As Witness

Question O394-12(2): Private Sector Participation In NWT Power Corporation

Question O395-12(2): Regional Superintendent, Baffin Region

Question O396-12(2): Extension Of Quiuaq School, Clyde River

Question O397-12(2): Departmental Directive To Eliminate Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Question O398-12(2): Resignation Of Deputy Minister Of Social Services, Bernie Doyle

Question O399-12(2): Ontario Court Of Appeal Decision On Right Of Prisoners To Vote

Question O400-12(2): Clarification Of Mr. Bernie Doyle's Place Of Employment

Question O401-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Abortion Patient's Concerns

Question O402-12(2): Procedure For Accepting Patient Complaints

Report Of The Standing Committee On Finance On The Review Of Bills 5, 12, 22 And 23

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Notice Of Motion 10-12(2): Canada's Participation On The International Whaling Commission

Second Reading Of Bill 26: Liquor Act

Second Reading Of Bill 27: Wildlife Conservation Act

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Hon. John Ningark , Hon. Dennis Patterson , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Todd , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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--- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 464

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Thursday, March 26, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Honourable Government Leader , Ms. Cournoyea .

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Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

It was the previous government's intention, and I would affirm the intention of this government, to establish the Northwest Territories Power Corporation as a going concern responsive to northern needs and to offer the corporation for private sector participation.

Consistent with that objective, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation Act was amended during the eighth session of the 11th Assembly. This amendment gave the Public Utilities Board, the PUB, the authority to set the rates of the corporation. This regulatory regime is consistent with that of Centra Power and Northland Utilities and will come into effect April 1, 1992.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories maintains authority over the corporation, as owner, and may issue directives to the corporation as required. The corporation remains accountable to this Assembly through myself, as Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation . ,

The Public Utilities Board was established to protect the public interest in the supply of energy throughout the Northwest Territories by public utilities and to remove the opportunity for political influence. As of April 1, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation will be subject to the same review, accountability and regulation as any public utility operating in the Northwest Territories.

April 1991, the corporation submitted a cost of service methodology to the Public Utilities Board. Each submission to the Public Utilities Board included a thorough public consultation process and resulted in clear directives from the PUB to the corporation.

During the next several months, the corporation will participate in public hearings into its current revenue requirement submission. The corporation then intends to file a cost of service study, incorporating the PUB's December 1991 recommendations, and to file a rate zone proposal.

I am confident that these regulatory changes, coupled with operational experience, will result in further improvements in the delivery of electrical service and profitability by the corporation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as Members know, I have returned from a trip to Ottawa. If Members would like, I could make a report today or tomorrow. There was not ample time for translation...

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Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Excuse me, Ms. Cournoyea . There is no statement filed.

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Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as I began, I said the statement was not filed because I have just returned from Ottawa, and I would like to offer to the Legislative Assembly, today, a statement as an emergency statement. although it can wait until tomorrow. Thank you.

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Ministers' Statement 46-12(2): Regulation Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Minister has just indicated it is an emergency statement. Proceed, please.

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Ministers' Statement 47-12(2): First Ministers' Conference On The Economy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 464

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Members.

I would like to take the opportunity today to inform Members of the Legislative Assembly of the discussions at the recent First Ministers' Conference on the Economy.

To begin with, it is important to note that the Government of the Northwest Territories was a full and equal participant. Officials were part of each and every working group. I believe this is a sign of the growing acceptance and recognition of the North's place in Canadian confederation.

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Ministers' Statement 47-12(2): First Ministers' Conference On The Economy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 465

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear!

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Ministers' Statement 47-12(2): First Ministers' Conference On The Economy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 465

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Because the meetings covered many of the different issues and areas, I will not try to summarize them. Rather, I would like to focus on the North's interests and concerns and thereby illustrate why we must continue to be at each of these meetings.

The discussions focused on eight topic areas including social programs, training, investment in infrastructure, interprovincial trade, international trade, fisheries, agriculture and crossborder shopping.

Social Programs

The discussion on social programs focused primarily on health care and the need to find more cost-effective ways of delivering this vital service. Ideas which were debated included increased efforts to promote health and prevent illness and disabilities; reduced reliance on hospital and medical doctors in favour of more flexible community-based care; development of national health goals and objectives; and increased public input and awareness of health issues.

What is of particular importance is how far ahead this territory and Assembly are in these areas. We have already initiated public awareness programs focused at preventing the need for high-cost treatment. Consultations are already under way with regional health boards as to the best model of health care delivery. Finally, a special committee on health and social services has been established by this Assembly.

Training

The second issue area included not only training in the narrow institutional sense but brought in all facets of education, social insurance, unemployment insurance and on-the-job training. The consensus which emerged was that there must be greater flexibility and willingness by the federal government within a broad national framework to allow for a redesign of current programs to address regional human resource development needs.

A new round of consultation between federal officials and representatives of provinces, territories and the private sector will soon be initiated. The Government of the Northwest Territories intends to participate actively in these discussions so that the changes to the current system will allow us to use social assistance and training funds more effectively to help train people and assist them in seeking out jobs rather than pay for them to stay at home.

Investment In Infrastructure

The third issue area, investment in infrastructure, received a great deal of debate. All First Ministers saw it as a means of creating jobs in the short term while investing in long-term economic opportunities. Roads, wharves and other forms of infrastructure will be a key component in unlocking the Northwest Territories' huge resource and tourist potential. A new federal cost-sharing highways program would allow us to upgrade and build vital infrastructure which we could otherwise not afford.

At the same time, it would free up funds to spend on other infrastructure initiatives such as airports or resource-based facilities. This initiative has been fast-tracked, and I hope to be able to report back to MLAs very soon.

Interprovincial Trade

On the fourth subject, interprovincial trade, I am able to announce immediate implications for the Northwest Territories. First Ministers agreed to move aggressively to reduce all forms of internal trade barriers such as subsidies, contracting

restrictions, procurement rules, and restrictions to labour mobility. However, as part of this initiative, we were able to achieve a special exemption for the Northwest Territories in light of its high level of unemployment and cost of doing business. In conjunction with the business incentive policy and other initiatives designed to maximize northern benefits from our capital spending, this should help northern businesses in these tough economic times.

The areas which were of lesser interest to the Northwest Territories international trade, agriculture and cross-border shopping received little discussion. But the final one, fisheries, did provide us with an important opportunity to press our point. We were successful in ascertaining our role in all facets of the Atlantic fishery and the management of those fish stocks off Baffin Island. This included clear and unequivocal recognition of all provisions of aboriginal land claims agreements which provide for the participation of aboriginal people in this important economic resource.

Mr. Speaker, this has only been a short

summary of a day and a half of very intense discussions, and I have tried to outline only the key issues to the Northwest Territories. Of equal importance was the tone and conduct of the meetings themselves. All First Ministers recognize the grave economic situation facing the country and the need to work cooperatively in dealing with these problems. As we face the tough choices brought on by difficult financial times, I believe we in this House will have to do the same. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Ministers' Statement 47-12(2): First Ministers' Conference On The Economy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 465

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister's statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Formation Of Kiguti Dental Services, Keewatin

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 465

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is with great pleasure that I rise today to inform this House of the formation of Kiguti Dental Services. Kiguti Dental Services is a joint venture between the Tapiriit Development Corporation of the Keewatin and the Adam Dental Clinic out of Yellowknife and lqaluit.

Mr. Speaker, one of the most exciting aspects of this development is its marriage of dental care expertise, as provided by the staff of the Adam Dental Clinic, and strong Inuit participation as provided by the Tapiriit Development Corporation.

--- Applause

Mr. Speaker, up to now dental services have been provided from the South and, to put it bluntly, teeth in the Keewatin are in bad shape. With the formation of Kiguti Dental Services, Inuit will no longer. be merely patients; they will play an integral role in the decision-making process.

Kiguti Dental Services will begin operating at the end of this month with a staff of nine residing in Rankin Inlet. This means dental services will now be provided by residents rather than outsiders. It also means tax revenues will belong to the Northwest Territories, rather than Manitoba, and that additional jobs will be created in Rankin Inlet as local businesses provide logistic services.

I should also point out that the switch to these dental services from those provided out of Manitoba will not add any additional costs to the health care system in the Northwest Territories. In fact, Mr. Speaker, Kiguti will operate as a non-profit organization and any surplus revenues will be used to improve the state of dental health care in the Keewatin.

I think this development shows that the people of Keewatin have once again taken the initiative to make changes which will better their socio-economic circumstances.

Before closing, Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not reiterate a point I made in my Member's statement on Tuesday -- that this government has gone on long enough about downsizing, postponing projects and reducing the size of government. It is time to move on; build consumer and investor confidence to ensure the long-term health of the economy of the Northwest Territories. As you can see, Mr. Speaker, the people of the Keewatin understand this and have done exactly that. Thank you.

--- Applause

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Formation Of Kiguti Dental Services, Keewatin

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 466

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Return To Question O313-12(2): Conservation Plan For Peary Caribou

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 466

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O313-12(2), asked by Mr. Ludy Pudluk on March 12, 1992. A Peary caribou recovery plan is being developed by a team of caribou researchers from across Canada. The chairman is a biologist from the Department of Renewable Resources. She wrote a letter last year to hunters and trappers associations' presidents informing them that the Peary caribou recovery team was established and that communities would be involved in making management decisions. Meetings or workshops will be held with communities in the High Arctic when a draft recovery plan is developed.

Residents of Resolute and Grise Fiord are concerned about the low numbers of Peary caribou and have voluntarily reduced the harvest. The Department of Renewable Resources had been providing funds to assist residents to travel to other hunting areas. Until Peary caribou increase in numbers, the department will continue, as much as possible, to assist residents to obtain caribou from other areas. Thank you.

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Return To Question O313-12(2): Conservation Plan For Peary Caribou

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O231-12(2): Negotiation Of Agreement With Federal Departments

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 466

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O231-12(2), asked by Mr. Nerysoo on March 3, 1992. The Canada/Northwest Territories Accord, currently under negotiation for a five-year extension, has been in place in the Northwest Territories on a year-to-year basis since 1987. The accord was designed to redirect money previously spent on social assistance, for the development of new training and work experience programs. These programs are directed to social assistance recipients to enhance their employment opportunities.

The new agreement proposes that both the federal government, through the Canada Employment and Immigration Commission, and the territorial government, through the Department of Social Services, will continue to provide $750,000 from each government, for a total of $1.5 million toward funding employment enhancement projects. The Department of Education is a partner to the agreement, as is Health and Welfare Canada.

The Department of Social Services retains the responsibility for referral of clients to the projects. During the first three years of the agreement the Government of the Northwest Territories' funding of $750,000 was transferred to Canada Employment and Immigration Commission for administration along with the federal portion under their Canadian job strategy program.

During the last two years, approximately half of the Government of the Northwest Territories' portion was administered by the Department of Education through their training-on-the-job program, and half by Arctic College through their upgrading and specialized skill development programs. Canada Employment and Immigration Commission will continue to administer their portion through their Canadian job strategy program. The Department of Social Services retained the client referral responsibility to all administrative bodies.

The new agreement proposes to continue the current arrangement for five years, from 1991 to 1996. The five year extension will allow more time for planning projects and allow clients to embark on career paths from upgrading, to training on the job, to job placement.

The agreement recognizes that the Government of the Northwest Territories will administer the accord by utilizing two committee structures: regional committees made up of representatives from Canada Employment and Immigration, Social Services and Education, who will approve projects submitted by community groups; 2) a management committee in Yellowknife made up of similar representation which will provide policy guidelines and administrative procedures.

Mr. Speaker, approximately 250 social assistance recipients per year have participated in the accord projects in the past. Some participants may remain on from year to year to accommodate their upgrading, training and job placement needs.

The five-year agreement is in the final draft process and is expected to be finalized and signed in early spring of 1992. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question O231-12(2): Negotiation Of Agreement With Federal Departments

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 466

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health . Mr. Speaker, in reviewing unedited Hansard of yesterday, when we discussed the issue of abortions with the Minister of Health , the Minister replied, 'I stand behind the process that we have.' I would like to ask the Minister if he can explain to this House what is the process that they have,

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Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 466

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to get a clarification if this is the process of complaints by patients.

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Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell , if you could clarify the process you are referring to.

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Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 466

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, my question was formulated from page 1623 of unedited Hansard. It was asked by one of my colleagues, Mr. Nerysoo , in respect to how he was going to address the matter with department officials in regard to medical procedures regarding abortions with the hospital.

Mr. Speaker, maybe for further clarification, if I may be allowed to

preamble prior to my question, the fact is that he did indicate that there is a proper process that he stands behind. What is the process? Is it a medically standard procedure?

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Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I apologize. I see the point that the Member is raising. As I mentioned yesterday, the Stanton board has been asked to conduct a review of hospital abortion practices or procedures. The review will be done by someone who does not work for the hospital or the Department of Health. It will be comprehensive, objective and respect the confidentiality of patients. It will be open to outside input. And finally, the conclusions and recommendations of the review will be made available to the public and Members of this House. I will circulate my letter that I have written to the Stanton board on the matter later this afternoon.

I would also like to say, Mr. Speaker, that we are prepared to have Dr. Kinloch of the Department of Health, and the executive director of the hospital, Ms. Olenek, available as professional witnesses during the discussions on my capital budget in committee of the whole, to answer specific questions on abortion procedures. We are also attempting to arrange a suitable time for representatives of the hospital board and staff and my department to meet with the media to answer any questions that they might have on this.

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Return To Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, that does not answer my question, but I will pursue the issue at hand. Yesterday the Minister indicated, and I checked unedited Hansard, that he was going to look into this matter through a public review. Later on in question period, at the point that I did ask him about the public review, he did indicate that he did not state it was a public review, and when I asked him to check Hansard he said he would check Hansard and correct his statement. I have not heard any correction to the statement that he made. Could the Minister now clarify what type of review will be conducted into this matter? and will it be a public review as he stated publicly?

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Supplementary To Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the honourable Member for bringing this to my attention. I did mention to her yesterday that I did state in this House, and as I was talking I guess I did say a lot, and in error I said the word "public," that it would be a public statement. It is going to be a review, and the results will be made public. It is not going to be a public review, but it will be an independent review and the results and the recommendations will be made public.

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Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Taking into consideration that the Minister will be doing a review in respect to this matter, can the Minister inform this House when he expects that this review will be completed and a report received by his office?

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Supplementary To Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are endeavouring to proceed with this matter with all haste, but as with anything else, we have time against us. I will endeavour to have the committee in place by the first of April, and the results of this will certainly be presented to the House in June.

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Further Return Question O382-12(2): Clarification Of The Process The Minister Stands Behind Re Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

New question, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

If I may ask a new question to the same Minister. I was somewhat astounded, as I kept reading through the unedited Hansard of yesterday, that when I asked the Minister yesterday if the issue of the medical procedures used in abortions have ever been brought to his attention or his department officials' attention, he indicated it was never brought to his attention.

I would like to quote Hansard, in one particular area, where he has many time discussed issues with the executive director of the Status of Women Council to the degree where he states, and I quote: "I meet the executive director quite frequently in different social functions, and this has never been addressed to me." Does the Minister expect that the issue of abortions and medical procedures should be addressed to him at social functions?

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Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I also did state in Hansard somewhere along the way here that I am a very public person and I think I was referring to the fact that I do meet many people, and I certainly meet the executive director at many social functions. I do not anticipate that we will discuss the issue of abortion at a social function. However, it is a medium for the meeting of the member and the Minister, and certainly at a time like that it could be said that you have a problem that you would like to discuss at another time. I think this is what I was referring to. At a time like that, they can say they have something to talk about and arrange a time. That is what I was meaning by that.

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Return To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Has the Minister been able to ascertain whether or not his department officials were aware of the medical procedures used in respect to abortions and brought to the department's attention?

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Supplementary To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 467

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I can only reiterate

my offer to have my assistant deputy minister of the Department of Health and the executive director from the hospital, Ms. Olenek, to be made available to answer any technical questions that may be asked.

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Further Return To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I recognize that the Minister may want to bring the issue into committee of the whole for discussion, but I am asking the Minister a question. Have department officials been aware of the issue prior to it becoming a public issue? The Minister indicated, yesterday, that he would determine and ascertain from his department whether or not it was brought to their attention. I would like to know whether it was brought to the department's attention. He did not answer my previous question.

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Supplementary To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

No, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Question O383-12(2): Abortion Issues Brought To Attention Of Minister

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. I apologize to Members. That was a new question by Mrs. Marie-Jewell . I should have gone to Mr. Todd for a new question. Mr. Todd .

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Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

John Todd

Keewatin Central

It is not my intent to prolong the debate on this abortion issue; however, I do have a bureaucratic concern with respect to it. I have some concerns that officials at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital and/or the Department of Health may have been with holding information from the Minister. At 11:15 o'clock this morning, I spoke to Lynn Brooks of the Status of Women Council. Ms. Brooks confirms that she raised this issue in detail during a lengthy conversation with Dr. Richard Nuttal, who is the regional medical health officer in the Department of Health.

She also indicated that she had discussed women's complaints about the abortion procedures with Dr. Donald Hadley at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, as well as with Dr. Jack Bromley of the NWT Medical Association. This is what the lady told me at 11:15 o'clock this morning. These medical professionals were aware of this problem. Did they bother to convey this knowledge to the Minister?

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Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.

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Return To Question O384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Recognizing that subsection 5(

e) of the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act gives the Minister the authority to ensure that adequate standards are maintained in hospitals, is it the Minister's position that these officials should have advised him directly that standards pertaining to surgical procedures used for abortion had been drawn into question by complaints from the Status of Women Council? Should they?

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I have no way of knowing or ascertaining what took place in the conversation between a doctor and the executive director of the Status of Women Council, and what the conclusion of that conversation may have been. Therefore, I would have no way of knowing whether or not the doctor should have conveyed anything to me as a result of that alleged conversation that may have taken place.

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Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I never got an answer to my question. I asked if it is the Minister's position that his officials, who were advised of the problem by the executive director of the Status of Women Council, should have advised him directly. Are his officials with holding information from him?

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford , Ms. Cournoyea .

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, if a hypothetical question is being placed, is it the Speaker who determines whether the question is in order or out of order?

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, whenever a point of order is to be raised in this House, I believe it is the Member's obligation to indicate that it is going to be a point of order, not to be rudely interrupted into the process without advising this House.

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Point of order, Mr. Nerysoo .

Point Of Order

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

No, Mr. Speaker. On a point of order, I did not hear you rule out the particular question as being hypothetical.

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I made no ruling on the question; that is correct. I want to remind all Members that a Minister, in response to an oral question, has the right to take a question as notice. I thought, in this particular case, that this particular question was, in fact, in order. Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to argue with the Speaker, but I believe that question is out of order according to our rule book under

section 35...

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Excuse me, Mr. Whitford . You cannot question the Speaker. Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize if I have questioned your authority in this House. I did not mean to do that; I was merely pointing out something, I thought. I will take the question as notice.

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Supplementary To Question O384-12(2):lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Further Return To Supplementary 0384-12(2): Lack Of Departmental Communication To Minister Of Health

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Whitford . Oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 468

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Health . Is the Minister aware, or was he made aware by his officials or the director of the Inuvik Regional Hospital, that there was a period of time

in which there was no resident doctor in the Inuvik Regional Hospital or in the community?

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Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

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Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister of Health who authorized that the doctor should be absent from the Inuvik Regional Hospital?

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Supplementary To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe he left on his own.

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Further Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know if it is policy of this government to allow a regional hospital to have all their doctors absent from a particular community.

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Supplementary To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe there are other doctors at that hospital.

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Further Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

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Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, earlier I asked the question, is the Minister aware that all the doctors were absent, not necessarily the general surgeon, but all the doctors were absent from the hospital. I wanted to know if he was knowledgeable of that.

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Supplementary To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

No, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Question O385-12(2): Minister's Awareness Of Absence Of Resident Doctor, Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

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Michael Ballantyne

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Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose a question to the Minister of Health . In reviewing the unedited Hansard, Mr. Speaker, the Minister in his point of privilege yesterday, when he announced his point of privilege, tried to explain to the House what he said to the reporters. I would like to quote: "What I was trying to say to the reporter

was that I have been advised that patients have a choice on whether or not they wish to have pain relief during an abortion procedure." My question to the Minister is, have there been any patients who did not want to have pain relief administered during this procedure?

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Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

I have no knowledge of that.

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Return To Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

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Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the issue at hand is the fact that the public does not feel that the medical procedures used during abortion -- there is a concern in the Territories by women that the procedures used for abortions are not medical procedures. Apparently it has been indicated that the same type of practice is not necessarily used in any other part of the country. If the Minister could think of the pain that could be endured during such a procedure without a pain relief measure taken. I would like to ask the Minister, does he believe that there have been no patients who did not want to have pain relief during this procedure, and that it should not be administered?

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Supplementary To Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

- Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can only say that I can only extend again the offer that Dr. Kinloch of the Department of Health and the executive director of the hospital, Ms. Olenek, will be available as professional people to discuss any concerns that the Members may have from a professional point of view.

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Further Return To Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Question O386-12(2): Patients Not Wanting Pain Relief During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

John Todd

Keewatin Central

The Minister has given me no choice but to ask this question. Yesterday, the Minister indicated that he had no knowledge, there were no complaints about the abortion procedures used at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital. But there were some Health officials who were aware of these complaints. On September 29, 1991, a former patient who had been treated at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, following a failed pregnancy, wrote to the hospital administration. Has the Minister of Health now been informed of this letter dated March 25, 1992?

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Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I said yesterday that Stanton Hospital had received one letter and two concerns and I believe that those were dealt with.. I explained that to the House yesterday. But the specifics as to September, I have no knowledge of that.

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Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 469

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Can the Minister inform the House whether he was advised of this complaint by the hospital administration or by the patient herself?

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Supplementary To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

No, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Can the Minister inform the House whether he was advised of this complaint by the hospital administration or only by the woman herself? Did the hospital administration advise you of this lady's complaint, or did she advise you directly?

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Supplementary To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

If I could ask for some clarification of the complaint, Mr. Todd . If you are talking about a complaint made in September, the Minister was not responsible for the portfolio at that time. So that question would not be an appropriate question to ask. Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, has the Minister of Health now been informed of this complaint by a letter dated March 25, 1992? The answer was yes, I thought. I asked the Minister if he was informed of it by the hospital administration or by the lady herself.

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Supplementary To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I answered, no, to both of those questions.

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Further Return To Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Question O387-12(2): Minister Of Health Being Informed Of Specific Complaint

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O388-12(2): Availability Of Doctors In Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question to the Minister of Health . It is with regard to the doctors in Inuvik. Is the Minister aware at any time, or told by his officials, that there were no doctors available at the hospital within the last month or so?

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Question O388-12(2): Availability Of Doctors In Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O388-12(2): Availability Of Doctors In Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.

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Return To Question O388-12(2): Availability Of Doctors In Inuvik

Question O388-12(2): Availability Of Doctors In Inuvik

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health . In respect to the issue of the medical procedures used for abortions, the point we are raising is the fact that women are enduring pain during such a medical procedure. An anesthesia is not given to the women. The Minister basically indicated, through unedited

Hansard as of yesterday, that if they want it they can ask for it or there are types of pain relief given. Does the Minister believe that during a medical procedure used for abortions that the procedure should allow the use of an anesthetic?

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Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I explained yesterday as best I could what I knew, and I hope the review would explain even further as to what may be necessary to know.

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Return To Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I just cannot imagine the type of answers, and I am really appalled. I would like an answer, yes or no, and an answer as to whether this issue can be dealt with. I am not getting anywhere and I am getting very frustrated. But I am going to keep pursuing the Minister on this issue throughout question period, because it is a critical issue and I am not getting answers for it. The public would probably want to know. I would like to know, during medical procedures, when abortions are being conducted, does the Minister believe that anesthesia should be used?

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Supplementary To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

In your capacity as a Minister, as a government policy. Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

I am not sure, Mr. Speaker, whether or not it is government policy to advise a doctor whether at a particular moment or in a particular procedure, whether there should be anesthesia; I am not sure what the question is. I thought I did indicate yesterday that my information had it that there was a process that took place, everything from counselling prior to the abortion to minor medication to deal with anxiety, and medication to suppress pain would be administered according to a particular type of procedure that was taking place.

The individual at the time and the doctor's advice to the patient, the patient's advice back to the doctor, there was a consultation process that took place throughout, and I believe I explained pain suppressants would be administered accordingly, and if the pain intensified there would be more, and if it was not needed it would be 'less or none. I thought I explained that, but that is as much as I know.

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Further Return To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health , can the Minister of Health give me one example, which is indicated to him by his advisors, why anesthesia should not be used on patients when abortions are performed?

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Supplementary To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 470

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

No, Mr. Speaker, it is not within my ability to answer those specific things. I indicated that

perhaps Dr. Kinloch, who is a medical doctor would be able to better explain the medical procedure than I would be.

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Further Return To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat concerned, if I may explain. Mr. Speaker, I guess the fact of the matter is, the Minister in this House is responsible for the delivery of health in the Territories and he is accountable to this House to ensure that the delivery of health is brought forth. The Department of Health indicated that anesthesia is not administered to patients when abortions are performed. I would like to ask the Minister: Can he give this House an example as to why his advisors advised him that anesthesia should not be administered during this medical procedure?

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Supplementary To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe I said the Department of Health said these things. I believe there are quotes on the radio and stuff like that about anesthetics not being given, but I do not think the department said this.

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Further Return To Question O389-12(2):use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Question O389-12(2): Use Of Anesthetics In Performing Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, if I could ask the Minister of Health why he has changed from a public review to an independent review of the surgical procedures that are being carried out on behalf of people in the NWT at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital. Why is he limiting it only to the Stanton?

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Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had indicated earlier on, and I had erred in saying a 'public" review. What I was referring to, and it has always been the intention, that this be a independent review of which the results would be made public. It is not a public review. No one changed my mind. I recognize the word that I had said would suggest it would be a public review, but it will have public input. But the results of it were to be made public.

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Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

How is the Minister going to ensure that the regions and those others hospitals that refer patients to this hospital, are going to have an input into the review, if it is not a public review?

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Supplementary To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I intend to work as closely as I can on this matter and the terms of reference will direct the review committee to include whatever is necessary

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Further Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

If I could ask the Minister of Health and his advisors, whoever they may be, will the Minister commit to this House that the general public will have an opportunity to have input into the review of the surgical procedures at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital?

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Supplementary To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Could I ask the Minister of Health if he could also provide the necessary expertise for those that are going to be appearing or challenging the remarks or comments of officials, either within his department or at the Yellowknife Stanton Hospital?

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Supplementary To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

It is not clear what the Member is referring to by challenging. I think we are looking here for a fact finding mission to determine certain procedures that are associated with medical abortions here in the hospital. I am not sure how else I can answer this. I do not know what is to be challenged.

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Further Return To Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Question O390-12(2): Limiting Review Of Surgical Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk .

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Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health . You said you had knowledge of complaints made by some patients. Where did you learn of that complaint, from the patient or the hospital?

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Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First from the CBC.

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Return To Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Question O391-12(2): Minister Being Made Aware Of Complaints

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 471

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to try and wrap this issue up. If I do not get a direct answer, I am not going to wrap it up. So do not try to sigh too quick. The point I want to bring, and I have to

preamble this issue, is the fact that medical procedures in this Stanton Yellowknife Hospital on abortions are being used where it is allowing women to endure the pain but it is not used in other parts of the country. I quote Dr. Morgentaler this morning on CBC,

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Point of order.

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi , point of order.

Point Of Order

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I believe the Member is making allegations against doctors and medical practitioners at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, that are not substantiated and they are allegations that are not serving the public any good. I do not believe they are serving my constituents and I object to the questioning.

Speaker's Ruling

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

If I could read the rule that has been quoted by Mr. Kakfwi , "If he... makes allegations against another Member, an official or a witness." As Speaker I am having some difficulty with this particular debate. Yesterday in response to oral questions there were pages and pages and pages of responses. The responses touched on every aspect of this very complex issue. I see that the Members have a right to clarify and to understand better definitive responses. At this point, I do not see how this is a point of order.

The rule is not intended to protect every official in the Territories and every official in the country. It seems to me it is very salient to this debate that these facts are discussed opening and fairly. So I do not see it as a point of order.

--- Applause

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I will try once again without being interrupted to pose my question to the Minister of Health . Mr. Speaker, the issue at hand is the fact that a medical procedure used in one of our hospitals to deliver a service to the patients and people of the NWT is basically a procedure that allows for women to endure pain. I am concerned with that particular issue, that unnecessary pain is having to be endured. I would like to ask the Minister, recognizing that this pain is being endured by women, with no anaesthetic being given to alleviate the pain, why does he feel he has to review the issue of how abortions are done at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital?

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Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1, too, am very concerned; and at the first opportunity yesterday, as I said earlier on, I brought this to the attention of the department, and shortly thereafter we instructed the hospital to look into this matter. I will endeavour, through this review, to ascertain whether these allegations are founded or not. If somebody could bring me more information, I would be able to answer these questions, but I only know as much as the Member, hearing on the CBC all of the contradictions from competent medical people about what is alleged to be happening here in the hospital.

But I hope this review will bring this to the front and we will be able to get some answers and be able to know that the standard of treatment in our hospital either is or is not what it should be.

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Return To Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Can the Minister indicate to this, House what is the policy for administration of anesthesia in the medical procedure of abortions?

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Supplementary To Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

I can only offer that I would be prepared to have Dr. Kinloch and Ms. Olenek, the executive director of the hospital, explain from a professional point of view what takes place in procedures like this. The offer still stands.

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Further Return To Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Question O392-12(2): Endurance Of Pain And Reviewing The Issue Of Abortion

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O393-12(2): Invitation To Have Dr. Andre Lalonde Appear As Witness

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I could ask the Minister if he is prepared to invite Dr. Lalonde to appear as well, to provide us with alternative advice and expertise in that particular field. In fact, the individual assessed the procedures at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital; Dr. Kinloch did not.

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Question O393-12(2): Invitation To Have Dr. Andre Lalonde Appear As Witness

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O393-12(2): Invitation To Have Dr. Andre Lalonde Appear As Witness

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have no authority over Dr. Lalonde. I am not sure he would be prepared to come here, but I can take the question as notice and we can get in touch with Mr. Lalonde.

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Question O393-12(2): Invitation To Have Dr. Andre Lalonde Appear As Witness

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question O394-12(2): Private Sector Participation In NWT Power Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 472

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I will change the subject. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Government Leader in her capacity as Minister