Debates of Feb. 11th, 1997

This is page numbers 523 - 556 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was policy .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Inuit Hunting Methods

Traditional Seal Hunt

Television Item On The Maritime Seal Harvest

North Slave Economic Development

Appreciation To Elizabeth Tumblin's School Class

Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Television Item On The Maritime Seal Harvest

Pages Visiting From Rankin Inlet

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Polar Bear Survey Methods

Crafts Produced By Inmates

Education Council Budget Reductions

Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Definition Of Community Empowerment

Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Process For Contract Proposals

Self-government Negotiations

Clarification Of Responsibility For Privatization

Sale Of Crafts At Ycc

Item 10: Petitions

Written Question 14-13(4): Information On Staffing Appeals

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Bill 12:

An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Enuaraq , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Honourable Samuel Gargan , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Honourable Don Morin , Honourable Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable Manitok Thompson , Honourable John Todd

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 523

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk . Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Inuit Hunting Methods

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon, Members. I would like to talk about being a hunter, about hunting and how to treat animals. I would like people to know in the early 60s I lived in an outpost camp and I am happy that I am an Inuk to this day. I am trying to say that when we lived in an outpost camp and if there was no game, we could not survive. My father and mother used to tell us that we have to respect the game and take good care of the game whether it is caribou, or seal, or any kind of animal.

If I killed an animal, I would be very happy and I would make sure that the animal is killed before I start skinning this animal. Before I came to Yellowknife, I would go out hunting on the weekends for my family and relatives. When I went hunting and caught an animal, we would say a prayer to give thanks. Mr. Speaker, I would like to tell the people that we have to respect animals that we kill. We have seen footage on animals being slaughtered. I would like people to know that this is not our practice. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

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Inuit Hunting Methods

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mahsi, Mr. Barnabas . Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas .

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Traditional Seal Hunt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translation) I will be speaking in Inuktitut as well. Yesterday, on the national television news, I was shocked to see the slaughter of seals, and how they slaughtered the seals for the skins. Let me go back to the history of my ancestors. They had to hunt to survive and use the skins for clothing. They never skinned a live seal, even if they were really hungry. From our ancestors and elders we have been taught when we injure an animal, we have to do our best to kill the animal so that it does not suffer because they respected what the seal could give them and because the seal was their main diet.

Today, the seal is still an important part of our diet. Mr. Speaker, I do not know of any hunter who would skin a live seal. Our main purpose to hunt seals now is for the food. We do not only hunt for the skins. Mr. Speaker, there are very few jobs in my constituency. Some hunters could hunt just for skins, but they do not do this. They know how many seals their families can eat and even though they could make more money from the skins, they just kill enough for their families. Often they give to the elders of the communities and people with dog teams.

If they do kill too many seals to eat, they ... (Translation ends)

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Traditional Seal Hunt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for the High Arctic is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Barnabas , you have unanimous consent.

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Traditional Seal Hunt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Members for giving me consent. In the spring and summer, when they kill too many seals they cache the meat to use later when seals are hard to find. Mr. Speaker, I want people to know that we do not kill seals just for their skins. The animals we hunt have been a very important part of our lives and we respect them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.(Translation ends)

-- Applause

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Traditional Seal Hunt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas . Again, to correct before I recognized Mr. Barnabas , I also thanked him. I wanted to thank Mr. Enuaraq and recognize Mr. Barnabas . Members' statements. Ms. Thompson .

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Television Item On The Maritime Seal Harvest

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 523

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was very disturbed by what I saw on the National News last night. There was film footage of men torturing seals before they died. Mr. Speaker, I was disturbed for two reasons. The first being that no animal should be mistreated like this. The second is that in my culture the seal is very important. Our elders would be horrified if they saw a hunter mistreat a seal or any animal, for that matter. Mr. Speaker, my father spoke to me this morning about this news item. He was also upset at what he saw. My father is a well known and respected seal hunter.

His skills are very well known in the Keewatin Region. He has many years of experience in teaching hunting skills on the land and in the school. Just as he learned from his grandfather, Agotemmariq, about hunting and the respect that they should show the animals they kill, he has taken this knowledge and shared it with the youth. It is taboo in our traditional laws to torture or abuse any living thing from an insect to a polar bear or whale. Elders tell these stories to the younger generations so that they will grow up

-- Applause

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Television Item On The Maritime Seal Harvest

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 524

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson . Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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North Slave Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 524

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I rise to tell this House how my region has looked to the future of economic development. Back in 1980, Charlie Charlo's dream for having our people trained and employed started to become a reality with the construction of the Nishi Khon Complex. This building is owned by the Rae-Edzo Dene Band Development Corporation which is the first ever in the history of the N.W.T. to become a publicly owned aboriginal company.

At about the same time the Nishi Khon Forest Service was established, which has over the years trained and employed many residents of the North Slave region and is owned by the residents of the region, this company started out to be just the seasonal forest fire response team on contract with our government. It has over the years expanded to include N. K. Freeway, the highway maintenance company; PCL/NK, our regional construction company; and NK/Canadian, the helicopter company to provide forest fire response, as well as a number of other businesses that operate within the region and provide training and employment for our people.

The Rae-Edzo Dene Band Development Corporation has expanded from its original beginnings by acquiring partial ownership in Bellanca Developments in Yellowknife, Polar Vision in various communities throughout the north, and by building and leasing space to the government and a variety of other tenants in Rae-Edzo.

Through the years the band councils have established a variety of businesses with each community. All communities within my region now have development corporations that negotiate construction contracts with this government for housing and capital projects that affect each community and employ and train all local people.

The Rae Dogrib Band has purchased a motel in Rae and operates it using all locally trained staff. They also own a large percentage of Northern Distributors Shell bulk oil plant here in Yellowknife, with the hopes of utilizing local trained truck drivers to provide fuel hauls on the winter roads and highways. The Band also has a construction company that takes care of all housing requirements within Rae-Edzo.

Snare Lake, being the smallest community, is not being left behind. Over the last few years they have expanded operations to include a hotel facility in the community. Mr. Speaker, may I have unanimous consent to conclude my statement, please?

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North Slave Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 524

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for North Slave is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Rabesca , you have unanimous consent.

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North Slave Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 524

James Rabesca

North Slave

A hotel facility in the community, a 50 person construction camp, a general store, a construction and maintenance operation, and are dealing with other exciting projects.

Rae Lakes has also worked hard to provide employment and training to their residents. Over the years the Band Council has acquired a fishing lodge, a motel facility in the community, and has also negotiated for and built all housing and capital projects for the community.

Wha Ti is also providing employment and training for its residents. They operate a fishing lodge and motel, as well as negotiate all construction projects that take place within their community. All using local employment and services wherever possible.

Mr. Speaker, my region has come a long way from the early 1980s, and we feel we are headed in the right direction. We are trying to provide all our people with opportunities that will benefit them and their families for years to come. There is, of course, a long way to go to fully realize the potential of employment and business opportunities within my region, but we feel we do have a good head start. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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North Slave Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 524

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca . Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Appreciation To Elizabeth Tumblin's School Class

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 524

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as an elected official we have an opportunity to see the good, the bad, and the sometimes ludicrous in public life. Every statement, question, or action becomes scrutinized, criticized, and sometimes, on those rare occasions, applauded. However, my fondest moments to date as an elected official have been when asked to speak at schools or to interact with constituents outside the rhetoric of political life.

This past November, I was invited to speak at Elizabeth Tumblin's class at Nakashuk Elementary School in Iqaluit. Today, when I opened my mail with the usual complaints, issues, and of course bills, it was to great delight that I received letters from Mrs. Tumblin's students in their own handwriting, thanking me for speaking to the class. The students also included their hand drawn pictures of me, and I might add that they give competition in their artistic ability with our own resident artist, Mr. Barnabas .

Mr. Speaker, needless to say that it made my day. The students were doing a project on government and Nunavut, and I was quite impressed with the quality of questions asked by the students. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the students of Elizabeth Tumblin's' class for writing me and I look forward to visiting the other schools in Iqaluit when I return home in March. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Appreciation To Elizabeth Tumblin's School Class

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we heard about the second school fire in Fort McPherson in just over a year. Like the other people in my community, I was hoping that it was a mechanical problem that caused the fire. It was really upsetting to learn today that the RCMP think that it is another case of arson.

Mr. Speaker, the community of Fort McPherson is hurting from these losses. The first fire, where we lost our school, was bad enough. It is worse because everyone in the community saw the difficulties last year. If someone actually set this fire, they did it knowing how much it would hurt the people of Fort McPherson.

Mr. Speaker, the community of Fort McPherson wants to deal with this problem. The arson at the school is only one sign of the problems of the youth. There are some children who are, in the words of the Mayor, unruly, incompetent, and mischievous. They believe that they are untouchable and in some ways they are. The current Young Offenders Act does not apply to them as they are too young. They know that even though, as they get older, the Young Offenders Act is usually not more than a slap on the wrist. Fort McPherson is asking for help dealing with this problem.

We have to find who is responsible for this, whatever it takes. We have to find a way to deal with the youth who are on the wrong path of life.

Mr. Speaker, we would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services , along with the Minister of Justice , to support the community by sending a team of professional investigators to help us resolve this problem. We need to develop a plan for working with the youth in addressing the social problems, which have brought... Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do I have any nays? You have some nays. Agreed? Thank you. You have unanimous consent. Mr. Krutko .

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Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

We need to develop a plan for working with the youth in addressing the social problems, which have been brought on by these mischievous actions which have taken place in the community of Fort McPherson and resolve once and for all, the individual or individuals who are responsible for this heinous crime. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Members' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Television Item On The Maritime Seal Harvest

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as others, I would also like to comment on the news story that was there last night on CBC TV, CNN, and other stations. Mr. Speaker, shown on this problem was footage of Newfoundland seal hunters displaying unacceptable behaviour on the treatment of seals that they were harvesting.

I was totally appalled by some of the scenes of cruelty, disrespect, and inhumane practices. I listened to the spokesperson for the sealers and I would agree with her that these were scenes of isolated, unique individuals that do not represent normal hunting practices of the Maritime sealers.

What worries me, Mr. Speaker, and what will be the real tragedy, is the effect that has on the sealskin market that we have slowly been nurturing, ever since Green Peace and others killed the market for seal products that my people, the Inuit, rely on for a living. The market was killed then due to similar pictures being flashed around the world of these same Maritime hunters killing seal pups.

Mr. Speaker, as others have said, it is Inuit tradition to treat all animals with respect, even those that we are harvesting.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would join others in saying shame to the animal rights activists that will exploit these pictures for fund-raising and fighting our seal harvesting around the world, and shame to the those Newfoundland hunters who practice this unacceptable behaviour. Thank you.

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Television Item On The Maritime Seal Harvest

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Members' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Pages Visiting From Rankin Inlet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 525

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very pleased to stand today to recognize three young ladies from Rankin Inlet, who will be serving the House this week as Pages. The three young ladies are Kelly Clark, a grade 8 student, Jody Roach, attending grade 8, and Tracey Roach, who is presently in grade 7. Kelly is the daughter of Donald and Simone Clark, who are very active in the educational community in Rankin. Tracey and Jody are the daughters of Ron and Goretti Roach, who are equally active in the community of Rankin Inlet, and I am very pleased, today, to be able to sponsor their participation this week. I would ask all of you to join with me in welcoming them here to Yellowknife. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Pages Visiting From Rankin Inlet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 526

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Ms Thompson.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 526

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you. I know they are not in the gallery, but they are here. Jamie Kataluk from Coral Harbour, Sabina Paniyuk from Coral Harbour, Charlene Putulik, Repulse Bay, Daucie Autut from Chesterfield, the Pages that will be serving us today. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 526

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Rabesca .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 526

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize some members from my constituency team in the gallery. The Rae-Edzo Junior Boys Soccer Team will represent the Northwest Territories and Canada at the upcoming 1997 Soccer Youth Cultural Exchange in Germany, March 19th to April 2nd.

During these two weeks, the team will play three indoor soccer tournaments in Hamburg, Neubrandenburg and Berlin, and partake in the various cultural events with their German counterparts, who are expected to visit the Northwest Territories in October of this same year.

Soccer has become a winning tradition in Rae-Edzo. The Rae-Edzo Warriors have earned five consecutive NWT soccer championships, a berth into the Arctic Winter Games in Slave Lake, and two bronze medals at the North American Indigenous Games in Saskatchewan and Minnesota. These are the only two medals won in the history of the Northwest Territories in outdoor soccer at an international tournament.

These young Rae-Edzo Warriors have been practising four to five nights a week over the past two years. They will also represent the Northwest Territories at this summer's North American Indigenous Games in Victoria, British Columbia.

The Soccer Youth Cultural Exchange is also special, because it allows our youth to explore another part of the world and build new friendships. It is a time to learn more about the game they love and play so well together, and a time to enjoy a once-in-a-lifetime experience. These adventures help enrich our youth with positive goals and dreams and broadens their knowledge and horizons.

The team representing the NWT and Canada are:

Angus Black, Clayton Lafferty, Lonnie Zoe, Leroy Koyina, Eric Apples, Jimmy Ekendia, Trevor Mantla, Jasper Lamouelle, Caleb Behrens, Gordon Delorme, Jason Green, Michael Botermans, their coach. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 526

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca . Again, just to remind the Members that under the rules of recognition of visitors in the gallery, you have 30 seconds to do it. I think the Member went over two minutes. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Morin .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 526

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a very, very famous person in the gallery today, someone that everyone knows. He is CBC Northbeat news announcer, George Tuccaro, and he is also an all around good guy.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 526

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 526

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Honourable Minister of Wildlife Management. A few days ago I received a call from Taloyoak from a gentleman, a member of Nunavut Wildlife Management Board.

Over the telephone conversation, he indicated to me, Mr. Speaker, that people of Nunavut are concerned about the way the survey is done for polar bears in that area. He also indicated, over the telephone, that when the survey is being done in the Nunavut area, the polar is drugged subsequent to putting on a radio collar and then released. Once the polar bear has been given a radio collar, then the satellite will track the movements of the polar bear. Once the survey has been done and that particular animal is no longer needed, again the polar bear is drugged to remove the radio collar.

My question to the Honourable Minister is, does the Minister have any knowledge of alternative methods as opposed to the drug? Thank you.

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Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 526

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife, and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 526

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I understand the practice is considered acceptable and it is the only viable way of studying polar bears. They are certainly not like sheep. We cannot just walk up to them and pat them on the back and throw a collar around. All large mammals, that could inflict some damage to humans, are approached only after being drugged. There is a very rigorous procedure for this practice to be done and it is done world-wide, as far as I know. There is, at this time, no other viable way of doing the studies. Thank you.

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Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 526

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark .

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Supplementary To Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 526

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to that same Honourable Minister. Mr. Speaker, there has been a

number of occasions whereby the polar bear that has been drugged is known to have lost weight. They are in poor health. In some cases, the polar bear died. Does the Minister have any knowledge of any polar bear that has been drugged a number of times, and subsequently died in the end? Does the Minister have that information from the people of Nunavut? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I would be very interested to know of any fatalities as a result of these exercises and how many times they occur in the conduct of these studies. It is true that polar bears are on the list of threatened species, but we have agreed, through a co-management plan with the local hunters, trappers, the Inuit communities, their organizations and representatives, to come up with co-management plans. Plans on how to conduct the studies to manage the population, in order to allow for some harvesting and yet, come up with a plan to restore the population to a healthy level.

There may be some ways to improve the way in which we conduct our work. Both the government and the union, I think would be interested in knowing if, in fact, our practices and the way we conduct ourselves in these joint efforts could be improved. So, I will ask my department and the Canadian Wildlife Service, if there is any information in regard to the incidents that the Member referred to and share that with you. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Question 286-13(4): Polar Bear Survey Methods

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus .

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Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for Mr. Ng . It is concerning the Department of Justice. I have had businessmen in Yellowknife calling about inmates selling crafts at the correctional centre in town here. They have pointed out that the inmates do not have to pay overhead while they are selling their crafts, while the businessmen in town that have businesses that sell crafts have overhead. They have stores, they have to pay their staff, all the rest of this kind of stuff. What I would like to know is whether this is actually happening or not, that the inmates are allowed to sell crafts at the YCC? Thank you.

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Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice , Mr. Ng .

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Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, there is a carving program that operates at the Yellowknife Correctional Centre and the inmates do have the opportunity to sell some of their finished products through a display case at the correctional facility, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Do the inmates have to purchase their own materials for the crafts that they make?

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Supplementary To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, they pay for their own materials as well as the tools that they use for making the products, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is it appropriate for the government to allow crafts to be sold in such a way when private enterprise is already providing this service and they have to pay for all their overhead? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is important to recognize that it is a part of the rehabilitative process, the programming for some of the inmates and the fact that it provides them with an opportunity to develop some skills that produce some income when they get out of the correctional centre. It provides them with an opportunity to generate some income while they are in there to send back to their families to look after some of their basic needs. Many of them, unfortunately, do not have the opportunity to have income support from their home families when they are in the correctional centre.

In that respect, it is an important issue for the inmates. In addition to that, they do use some of the payments sometimes for some of their fines that they have incurred as part of the sentence that they received, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am assuming that some people must go there exclusively to buy crafts. Has the Minister taken into consideration the liability that we would have to face if a customer was taken hostage while they were at the correctional centre? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 527

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the display area is outside of the secure area so it is not within the confines of the secure area where the inmates reside or operate. In that respect, we do have adequate security and it is, as we all know, a minimum security facility so it has not been a major factor in the assessment of operating that program, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Question 287-13(4): Crafts Produced By Inmates

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment in regards to bussing and the bussing formula and cuts that have resulted because of that new formula. Specifically in the South Slave, they have experienced a 42.8 percent cut in this year's budget from last year. They lost almost $180,000. The people of Yellowknife 1 and Yellowknife 2, between them, have had cuts totalling almost 45 percent of their budgets.

My question to the Minister is, because of these cuts, it has been very clearly indicated to me that the district education authority in Fort Smith, and probably in Hay River as well, is having a very difficult time coping with these cuts. Is the Minister aware of the impact of these cuts and is there any way that we can seek to ameliorate the impact of those cuts?

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Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a complicated one to explain. I will do my best to be concise. The department has worked with the education councils across the Northwest Territories to adjust the formulas for financing the work that the councils do. In the course of these adjustments, there were some redistributions so that what was attempted was to provide a more equitable form of financing. In some areas, like the South Slave, while the amounts that were contributed to the divisional education councils for bussing went down, in other areas, their funding went up.

In dealing with some of the inequities across the Northwest Territories, there are often, within education councils, offsetting amounts. Had there been no target reduction for the department, the changes in the formula would, in fact, have increased the amount of total funding that would have gone to the South Slave Divisional Education Council. So, what happened was, the formula was changed in order to provide more equity across the Northwest Territories.

If we still had the same amount of money that we had in previous years, it actually would have meant an increase to the South Slave Divisional Education Council. They could have then used the monies any way they wanted. However, after doing all the formula changes, the amount of money, because of our target, was reduced. That meant that overall dollars that education councils received were reduced. They can look at those dollars as being all allocated to bussing or they can recognize there was a change in how the formula was calculated, which will probably be more accurate. They lost money in all areas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That was a case of fiscal ledger domain if I ever saw one. I have seen the formula that the Minister is talking about and I am sure Einstein himself would be scratching his head trying to make sense of it. The Minister indicated, in his comments, that while this thing should have gone up, there was actually a cut but there were offsetting increases in other areas in the budget. Could the Minister specify some of the offsetting areas where there have been increases that would offset this $187,000 cut that the DEA experienced in the South Slave? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, there is no sleight of hand involved here. What happened was that the overall budget for schools was reduced by 5 or 6 percent. While the formula may have gone down for bussing, it may have gone up for the South Slave region for special education. It may have gone up in the basic per capita student grant, however, after all of the formula adjustments were done, there was a five or six percent decrease applied to the total figure. Therefore everything in the budget was reduced. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Trying to follow that lucid response has left me somewhat dizzy. Mr. Speaker, there was a 42.8 percent cut to the bussing formula. The Minister is telling me that overall for the budget for the South Slave, there was only a five or six percent cut. I think is what he is telling me. The people in the South Slave indicate to me that has been an increase in student numbers and their costs are far exceeding the funding that has been specified for bussing, resulting in the possible application of prohibitive user fees or having to take money from other critical areas.

So, can the Minister maybe clarify for me, the difference. Money is given for bussing. There has been a 43 percent cut. You are telling me that they are expected to find the money somewhere else in the budget? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 528

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is up to each individual education council to determine how they spend their funds. They do not have to spend it according to the formula by which the funds are granted to them. They may find reasons for reallocation. So, yes, it is up to the education council to choose whether or not they wish to put the funds into student travel to southern locations or to put it into bussing as an example. I did not say that the South Slave Divisional Education Council took a five or six percent reduction.

I said the funding in the budget for schools that is available across the Northwest Territories was reduced by five or six percent in this current year as compared to last year. That translated, with some of the changes to the formula, to less than five or six percent for some education councils and more than five or six percent to others. I cannot say off of the top of my head where South Slave fits into that formula in this current year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister provide that information once he finds out what the numbers are? You also indicated that there may have been increases in this area or there may have been increases in that area that would possibly offset a 43 percent cut to bussing, nothing specific. May does not pay bus drivers. So I was wondering if you could also specify what areas when you break out the numbers of the budget where those offsetting increases may be. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that I can get that information for the Member fairly quickly. The cuts were explained to the divisional education councils and the authorities in Yellowknife. This exercise was gone through with them so that they saw that the formula adjustments would actually allow an increase in the total funding that they would have seen, except for the target adjustment at the end of the day. The formula adjustments that were made would have meant an increase had we had the forced growth that has historically gone into the department.

Because there was no forced growth and there was, in fact, a reduction in the total funds that were available for schools, it meant the net funds that wound up going to all educational authorities were reduced over what the formula would have been. That information has been provided to the education councils and I would be happy to provide it to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Question 288-13(4): Education Council Budget Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice . It is in relation to the statement that I read in the House. It is in regards to the fire at Fort McPherson. The question is that the department can support the community by sending a team of professionals to try to resolve this heinous crime, and also to sit down with the community to find ways of dealing with the problem of the youth in the community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice . Mr. Ng .

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Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, we would be willing to help. My issue would be that the need to address the issue would have to come from the community, the request for specifically for what type of support that they would want before we could entertain a proposal on what type of individuals to send in to assist the community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The reason that I raised the question is because I have been asked on behalf of the community and the mayor to look into this issue. This is not something that has just occurred. We have had two fires in the last year relating to Chief Julius School which is a $7 million loss, now, to the latest fire which is in the $300,000 or $400,000 range. This is not the first fire that has occurred in the community. We have lost a hotel to fire. We have lost a curling rink to fire. We have lost a Catholic church to fire. These incidents have been going on for several years.

So, I am asking the department if they can send an arson team in there. We should have professionals on staff either here in Yellowknife or bring them in from the south to resolve this outstanding problem. It is costing this government and the community millions of dollars. Yet, the crime has not been concluded. The culprit of the fire of the Chief Julius School has not been caught to date. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 529

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again I hear from the honourable Member that the community is concerned about the issue and we will lend any support to that possible. I think it has to be driven from the community that it is unacceptable for these types of situations that cause damage to the community. It impacts everybody in the community. I think that one of the first steps the community should undertake is to formulate a community group to raise their concerns in respect to this specific issue about capturing or charging or finding out the individuals that are involved. It is a serious matter.

I do not know the specifics of what steps the investigation are at currently. But I will check into this matter because it is an important issue. Again, I would say that once

something concrete was requested from the honourable Member, it would be something we could consider, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The reason I stand up in this House and ask questions is because of issues that affect my community. I do not know what it takes to get the attention of the government, but do you want somebody to die in a fire before it is acceptable to a community? I raised this question because my community is concerned about it. When you make the statement that you do not know if it is acceptable or not to the community is why I am standing here asking this question. I find it awfully offensive that the school burns down. It is not resolved. Now, another burns down.

How many fires do you have before it is acceptable to this government to resolve the incidents that are occurring? So I am asking the Minister, again, will he make an attempt to send the resource people to Fort McPherson to try to resolve this issue?

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the point that I am trying to get to is the fact that even if we catch the culprits in this incident, it is a community problem in respect to whether or not it is acceptable by community standards to have individuals out there for whatever reasons getting into these kind of difficulties. The onus would be on the community to a large extent to monitor and to put into place programs that could minimize the possibilities of these types of situations happening. We would be supportive of those types of initiatives.

I do not think that going in, unless it is just the one individual that is setting all these fires that the honourable Member is alluding to, helps. You still have to get to the root cause of the problem of why is this happening. Is it a copycat type of situation because somebody else has done it that other individuals are entertaining that idea and pursuing it?

So, I would say that again, we are willing to assist the community in whatever way we can, but the onus is not and the difficulty is not going to end by the fact of locking up an individual or sending out one individual that might have perpetuated these crimes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to the Minister's statement, I am not too sure if he is saying that he is going help or that someone has to die in a fire before he does anything about. As Minister of Justice , I believe this is an issue which has legal ramifications in regards to arson. There is an offence and also in regards to destruction of property, especially in relation to a community's facility such as a school which is a critical structure to the community. This is the second time in over a year. Basically, nothing has been done in relation to the Department of Justice to put people forth to resolve it. We thought we had something to deal with our social problems.

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Krutko . Would you ask your question please. Supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the Minister is at what time does he intend to have someone go into the community to help assist in this problem?

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Supplementary To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will talk to my departmental staff and assess the situation and meet with the honourable Member and try to come up with the remedy that would be satisfactory. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Question 289-13(4): Fort Mcpherson School Fire

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Before we go on, I know that all the statements that are made, questions, responses are recorded so we know what is being said. One of the things that is not recorded but still could be seen on TV are gestures by Members making gestures to other Members. So, we will ask the Members to be careful the way you conduct yourself on TV too because it will be seen by the public, especially if the camera is on the Member when he is asking a question and having a gesture with it. It will be seen on TV, and if it is, we will be dealing with it. Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien .

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Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . Mr. Speaker, there is still some uncertainty regarding the community empowerment initiative. With that point and to further clarify the initiative I would ask the Minister if she would provide to this House the departmental definition of community empowerment. Thank you.

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Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . Ms. Thompson .

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Return To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 530

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Community empowerment is simply a community solving their own problems and local people taking care of each other. We know that the government made too many decisions about what is best for the people in the communities. Even though these decisions are well intentioned, the result is that the people do not have control over what happens in their communities. So, that is what community empowerment is about. It is about communities having control of, responsibility for and accountability for programs, services and infrastructure

at the community level. Communities set their own priorities and make decisions about certain programs and services which affect them in order to meet their community needs. Locally people manage community affairs to reflect community needs and interests while the territorial government manages those area which affect the NWT as a whole.

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Return To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to the Minister's definition, can the Minister advise this House as to how many communities have been successfully empowered as of today. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ms. Thompson .

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Further Return To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If my budget is passed, there will be a lot more communities that will be successful in community empowerment. So, that is a message to the regular Members, but there has been a lot of successes in community empowerment already. Cape Dorset is one of the communities that has already experienced success in integrating public works, housing, economic development, social services, and government administration into community government operations resulting in more direct control over resources to address local priorities.

In Igloolik, the community is increasing its control of social programs so that it is better able to promote community wellness. Keewatin communities are working on the transfer of airport programs in all the communities in the region so that transportation operations are part of community government operations. We have transferred GLOs, lottery licensing, and land management to the communities. There is also Fort Good Hope who has been looking at how social and infrastructure programs may be integrated so that they are better able to deal with community priorities.

We have been working within our budget, but if my budget is passed after this budget session, then we will be able to do more with the communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize that before we see further community empowerment we have to wait for the outcome of this budget. Could the Minister advise this House as to roughly how many communities have been empowered as of this date? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Ms. Thompson .

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Further Return To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said we have a plan in place and we have a lot of communities that are interested in community empowerment but we have not had any money for community empowerment in my department. But we do have the plans in place and we have the teams in place. We have been introducing community empowerment to the communities. If my budget is passed then we will be able to do more with the communities but I can give a list of responsibilities that have been transferred to the communities to the Member if he wants the details. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Question 290-13(4): Definition Of Community Empowerment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Henry .

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Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier on privatization initiatives. There was much discussion in the House on privatization, particularly POL. I note in the unedited Hansard of yesterday, Mr. Kakfwi informed the House that there is no specific policy on privatization. My question to the Premier is, where do they take their initiative from if there is no privatization policy in place? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier .

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Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As far as where we take the initiative from on privatization issues, is we look at services that we do supply to the public through government dollars and we look at what makes sense to privatize and we attempt to solve that problem that way. At this time, it looks like privatization of petroleum products would be a good idea as well as computer services and property management. Thank you.

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Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned, Mr. Kakfwi in Hansard suggested there was no specific policy on privatization. My question to the Premier is, is this factual? Is there no policy on privatization? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, there is no policy on specific privatization issues. It is the government's intent to pursue

initiatives of privatization wherever possible. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 531

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a document that says, Policy Privatization, now it was dated back in 1985. I am wondering if the Premier can tell me if this policy is no longer in effect. It is on privatization. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know about the 1985 paper the Member is speaking of. We as a government took the initiative to explore the options of privatization and that is what we are doing. We are looking at the options of the things we can privatize. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The document I am talking about is the privatization policy and it is signed by the then Commissioner John Parker, dated 85/10/22 but there is an interesting comment.

Article 6 in that particular document states, "Responsible Department: The department whose program or service is under consideration for privatization ..." I would ask if there has been a change to or if indeed this policy is not in place presently. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is 1985. That is from a previous government. We as a government have taken an initiative to privatize and look at the options that are available for us to privatize government functions. We have also made it very clear that the co-ordination of privatization will be within the hands of Mr. Kakfwi as the Minister of RWED . That is the economic arm that deals with economic issues for this government but the actual footwork or the work that has to be done on the ground level, for example POL, Mr. Arlooktoo would handle that work because they are the department that deals with POL so they know that issue best. So they do the ground work. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Question 291-13(4): Origin Of Privatization Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Again, just to remind the Members that when you are making reference to policies of previous Assemblies or governments you can cite from it but you cannot read extensively from a document that is not in front of the House. If you wish to cite more from the document, table it as a tabled document. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Public Works , Mr. Arlooktoo . Last week I asked a number of questions in regards to the tendering process. The Minister was kind enough to send me an overview of contracting procedures. It brings to my attention the process used for proposals whereby the unsuccessful bidders are not informed in detail of the reasons for their non-success.

I wonder if the Minister could tell me if he will revisit this process and direct the department to ensure that those people that have put in bids, have their detailed rating sheets discussed with them as well as the reasons why they were unsuccessful. The reason for my question is that the contractors are concerned that they do not know why they are not successful and I think it is important for the public competitiveness of the industry that those contractors be aware of why they are not successful so they can improve in those particular areas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Return To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, in about 80 percent of the cases the reason why a contract was awarded to one firm and not the other is because of price and those are through our public tenders. In the other cases where we go through request for proposals, the process is a little bit more elaborate. There are more concepts involved, therefore that would make it pretty clear that in most cases it is a cut and dried reason why they did not win. However, I have looked into the issue a bit further and I have taken steps to ensure that in all letters from the Department of Public Works to unsuccessful bidders, that there is an offer to answer questions that they have on their own proposal.

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Return To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate what the Minister has offered and the directions he has given and thank him for that. One of the main criteria for the proposal system is that sometimes the financial amount is not predictable ahead of time. But after the project is finished, I wonder if the Minister would undertake to ensure that all those bidders are informed of the final cost of the project so that this becomes public information. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I will see exactly what the situation is. I understand that in most cases that the final figure for the cost of many projects does become public either through our accounting procedures, public accounts or through the different construction associations. But I will see what the situation is and see if we can respond positively to the Member's request.

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Further Return To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 532

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One further item that I would like to pursue. If the Minister could provide to me the amount of dollars and the number of contracts that were issued under the construction management proposals or site superintendent services, in a similar fashion as he provided me with the overview of the programs. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I would need to know which year the Member is referring to but I will speak with him privately. I have done a little research on these construction management contracts and find that they are quite rare. So, I will find out from the Member which ones he needs to know about and give it to him.

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Further Return To Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Question 292-13(4): Process For Contract Proposals

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Steen .

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Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Honourable Mr. Antoine , Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs . Mr. Speaker, over the last couple of days, Mr. Antoine has indicated his ministry is mandated to represent and protect the interests of the government of the NWT and the residents of the NWT at self-government and constitutional negotiating tables. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister could define what these interests might be.

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Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs , Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Affairs Ministry has a mandate to represent this government, as well as protect the interests of the whole of the Northwest Territories at the talks that go on in the land claims area. Now, with the self-government talks that are beginning, for example, in the Beaufort-Delta, we have the Gwich'in/Inuvialuit municipalities that have obtained the agreement of the federal government to start talking about self-government negotiations.

We, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, will be representing the government, as well as the interests of the Northwest Territories, at these negotiations. This is protection for this government and the programs and services that we have as a government. We are there at the table to ensure that, during the discussions, that our interests are protected at the table. We are a third party at these negotiations.

We feel that if the federal government and the aboriginal First Nations were to negotiate the self-government arrangements by themselves without us at the table, I think that we would be in serious trouble because what is on the table is existing programs and services that this government is currently providing. During the discussions, all these different programs will be discussed. We need to have our own representatives at the table to protect the interests of this government. Thank you.

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Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the federal government has indicated they will be interested in protecting the Canadian constitutional rights of the citizens. I believe they indicated this by suggesting that any new constitution of the territory would have to conform with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Therefore, I presume the Minister's department will be more concerned with the democratic rights of the NWT residents at the territorial, municipal or community level. Is that correct?

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Supplementary To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Yes, Mr. Speaker. What the honourable Member is making reference to is that, yes, we have to look at all the areas that we are dealing with. We are there to protect the rights of all the citizens of the Northwest Territories at the territorial level as well as the community and regional levels. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated he has had, and will continue to have, an official presence at self-government talks involving Gwich'in/Inuvialuit in the Mackenzie Delta area. Mr. Speaker, I believe it goes without saying, that the Inuvialuit have a record of being fair in regards to how they treat all their residents in the communities. However, is the presence at these tables to ensure the rights of NWT and municipal residents are protected in regards to a resident's ability to vote and seek public office at the community level are protected? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 533

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at these specific negotiations in the Mackenzie Delta and Beaufort-Delta, the negotiations are just beginning now and since it has not been done before, we are, more or less, developing our position when each item is put on the table. For example, governments, then we are involved in developing our mandate on how we are going to deal with it. And, yes, since it is new, we are looking at individual rights as well as collective rights. In the Canadian Charter of Rights, there are provisions

in there that recognize treaty and aboriginal rights. There is a derogation clause in the Canadian Constitution that treaty and aboriginal rights have to be recognized and affirmed. We are in a new type of arrangement that has not been done before and we are doing it. So, we are there, yes, to protect the rights of the people at the territorial level, individual rights as well as collective rights. As negotiations move forward, we will be getting into more and more details of what the honourable Member is raising his concern about. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe there are some concerns at the community levels as to whether or not our individual and democratic rights are on the bargaining table. Could the Minister assure us that the democratic rights of individuals to vote and hold public office at community levels, is not on the bargaining table? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the individual and democratic rights that the honourable Member is referring to are not on the bargaining table. They are protected by the Charter of Rights and we abide by those rights. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Question 293-13(4): Self-government Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco .

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Question 294-13(4): Clarification Of Responsibility For Privatization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, following up on the privatization matters earlier brought up by Mr. Henry . In a letter dated August 6, 1996 from Mr. Arlooktoo to myself as chair of the Infrastructure Committee, which I understand was tabled in the House, the Minister responsible for ED&T is co-ordinating all GNWT privatization initiatives. On page 804 of the unedited Hansard from February 7, 1997, the Premier states that Mr. Todd will be able to answer questions regarding privatization and property management. So, we seem to be getting mixed signals here, Mr. Speaker. In August, Mr.

Kakfwi was responsible for privatization and, on Friday, we were told to direct questions to Mr. Todd . So, my question to the Premier is, can he explain this to me? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 294-13(4): Clarification Of Responsibility For Privatization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Premier .

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Return To Question 294-13(4): Clarification Of Responsibility For Privatization

Question 294-13(4): Clarification Of Responsibility For Privatization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 534

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have said earlier in this House, Mr. Kakfwi is responsible for the co-ordination of all privatization initiatives of this government. Mr. Todd is responsible for the ground work on the privatization of property management. Thank you.

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