Debates of Feb. 17th, 2003

This is page numbers 87 - 122 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was capital .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Strategy To Reduce Impaired Driving

Territorial Premiers' Meeting With Prime Minister

Heritage Day 2003

Do I Need To See The Nurse Or Doctor?

Family Violence Legislation

Premier Absent From The House

Condolence On Passing Of Peter Elanik

Corporate Capital Planning Process

Capital Planning Consultation

Inadequate Support For Small Communities In The Capital Planning Process

Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Capital Planning Process

Fairness And Equity In The Capital Planning Process

Public Expectations For Capital Spending

Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Balanced Approach To Capital Spending

Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities

Transparency Of Capital Planning Ranking Criteria

Appreciation Evening In Jean Marie River

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Further To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Supplementary To 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Rationale For Changes To The Capital Plan

Balanced Approach To Capital Spending

Needs-based Capital Investment

Linking Priorities To Capital Allocations

Lack Of Infrastructure In Small Communities

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Tabled Document 9-14(6): Letter From Minister Miltenberger To Federal Health Minister Anne Mclellan Regarding The Health Minister's Visit To The North

Tabled Document 10-14(6): Letter From Nova Scotia Premier, The Honourable John Hamm, Regarding Territorial Health Care Funding

Tabled Document 11-14(6): The Future Of Health Care In Canada - A Public Lecture With Mr. Roy Romanow, February 13, 2003

Tabled Document 12-14(6): NWT Liquor Commission 2001-2002 Annual Report

Tabled Document 13-14(6): NWT Power Corporation 2002 Annual Report

Tabled Document 14-14(6): NWT Housing Corporation 2001-2002 Annual Report

Bill 5:

An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act

Bill 4:

An Act To Amend The Consumer Protection Act

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Mr. McLeod , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen , Honourable Tony Whitford

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 87

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Bonjour, mes amis. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 10-14(6): Strategy To Reduce Impaired Driving

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 87

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, later this afternoon, I intend to introduce at act to amend the Motor Vehicles Act. These amendments are aimed at strengthening the act as a forceful deterrent to drinking and driving.

Last October, I made a statement in this Assembly to report substantial progress over the past decade in reducing the number of alcohol-related traffic accidents and the number of deaths and injuries that result from them. I was pleased to report that real progress has been made. At the same time, it was discouraging to acknowledge that people are still being killed and injured in alcohol-related accidents. These kinds of accidents need not happen at all.

Driving a motor vehicle is a serious undertaking. We need to give it our full attention. The consumption of alcohol impairs our mental judgment and diminishes our physical reflexes. Thankfully, it seems, more and more drivers have come to understand that drinking and driving just don't mix. Still, there are those who have not received the message that society no longer tolerates this type of preventable accident.

In brief, Mr. Speaker, the amendments I propose will provide for new administrative suspensions of driver's licenses for impaired driving. These are administrative rather than judicial procedures that enforcement officers can invoke immediately and separately from the criminal justice process.

A person driving a motor vehicle with a blood alcohol content of greater than .05 percent would be subject to a 24-hour license suspension and a 30-day suspension for a second offence within a two-year period. A person found driving with a blood alcohol content of greater than .08 percent would be subject to a 90-day suspension.

A problem here in the Northwest Territories, as well as in southern Canada, has been with people who continue driving even after their driver's license has been suspended. In these cases, the amendments provide for an immediate 30-day vehicle impoundment.

The amendments also attach new conditions for the reinstatement of a suspended driver's licence. Suspended drivers may be required to undergo drug and alcohol assessment and, if necessary, a complete rehabilitation program as part of the licence reinstatement process.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, the amendments authorize the introduction of a graduated licensing system for new drivers.

Over the past decade, the NWT has fallen behind most other jurisdictions in Canada in enacting these or similar measures to deter impaired driving. These amendments will bring our laws in line with those in effect elsewhere in Canada.

In being amongst the last in Canada to bring in these types of impaired driving deterrents, we have had the advantage of studying how they worked in other jurisdictions before introducing them here. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, I am confident that the bill I will introduce later today is a carefully considered and well-written piece of legislation.

I wish these amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act could finally eliminate impaired driving altogether, however we can never expect a law to succeed so well in its purpose. I have no doubt though, Mr. Speaker, these amendments will deliver our message. Drinking and driving is dangerous. Drinking and driving is irresponsible. In the Northwest Territories, it is unacceptable. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 10-14(6): Strategy To Reduce Impaired Driving

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 87

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 11-14(6): Territorial Premiers' Meeting With Prime Minister

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 87

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier has asked me to inform the House that the Prime Minister has agreed to meet with him, Nunavut Premier Okalik and Yukon Premier Fentie on Thursday morning in Ottawa to discuss federal funding for territorial health care.

---Applause

The Premier has also asked that I express, on behalf of Cabinet, our appreciation for the support received to date on this important issue from MLAs, our MP and Senator, the NWT health community and NWT residents.

I will keep the House informed on further developments until the Premier returns. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 11-14(6): Territorial Premiers' Meeting With Prime Minister

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Ootes .

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Minister's Statement 12-14(6): Heritage Day 2003

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, Monday, February 17th, is Heritage Day in the Northwest Territories and throughout Canada.

Each year the Heritage Canada Foundation encourages Canadians to celebrate a nation-wide theme. The theme this year is "The Heritage of our Town." The Heritage Canada Foundation asks the question, "Why does a town exist?" The foundation suggests that heritage is found in a name, in the community's aspirations or in historical figures.

The 33 communities in the Northwest Territories vary greatly in geography, in history and in size. We should celebrate the heritage that makes our communities unique.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to draw your attention to a special heritage project the Department of Education, Culture and Employment launched at the Chief Jimmy Bruneau School in Rae-Edzo on January 24th. The Web site, "Lessons from the Land: The Idaa Trail," is an excellent example of honouring the heritage of the territory. I would invite Members to view the display of Dogrib culture and heritage in the Great Hall today.

While visiting the Web site, anyone from anywhere in our territory and around the world can participate in a virtual journey along the historic trade route, the Idaa Trail.

We will be continuing the recognition of our northern heritage with the production of our second "Lessons from the Land" series highlighting "Journeys of Nuligak" from the Beaufort-Delta area and the Inuvialuit people.

In the Northwest Territories, many of the elders who built our communities and created the history that we now celebrate are still alive, or their stories live through their children.

I encourage everyone to speak to an elder. If you have a story about your community, share that story. Visit a classroom and share your knowledge.

Special events have been planned to celebrate the heritage of our communities throughout the North. I invite everyone to participate in those.

It is important that we recognize the value of our heritage not just on designated days such as today, but through each day of the year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 12-14(6): Heritage Day 2003

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 13-14(6): Do I Need To See The Nurse Or Doctor?

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the saying "knowledge is power" is particularly true when it comes to health and well-being. Information about how to assess and care for minor illnesses or conditions empowers people -- it gives us confidence to make informed decisions and to seek advice when needed. It also has the added benefit of reducing unnecessary trips to the health care or hospital, because people can recognize whether symptoms are serious enough to warrant medical advice.

For this reason, Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to distribute to Members advance copies of home resources on health and social services. These resources include a self-care handbook called "Do I Need to See the Nurse/Doctor?" and a brochure on core health and social services. The mail-out of these resources to all NWT households by the end of February fulfills two commitments in the Health and Social Services System Action Plan. This action also supports a primary goal of this Assembly, to have healthy, educated individuals making responsible personal choices for themselves and their families.

It is important to state that the self-care handbook should be viewed as an aid to self-care. With this resource in our homes, we have ready access to basic advice on how to manage the everyday ailments that accompany life, like coughs, colds, sore throats, scrapes, upset stomachs and fevers. The handbook also suggests what we can do to help our families through troubled or stressful times.

Mr. Speaker, whether we are parents, caregivers or concerned friends, we have all had times when we needed ready to access basic health information. Sometimes, the most valuable thing gained from a self-care handbook is reassurance that the self-care we are currently providing is the right thing to do. Of course, there are also times when the condition warrants medical attention. The handbook is set up to flag obvious signs and symptoms of a more serious condition and it indicates how soon we should get medical help.

The brochure on core health and social services offers basic information of another kind -- it describes the kinds of service the public can expect from the NWT health and social services system. The brochure also provides information about where and how these services are delivered and why some services must be referred to specialists located outside a person's home community.

It is obvious to all Canadians and certainly to Northerners that there are high demands on our health and social services and programs. We need to take steps to ensure services are there, where and when we need them. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, people have an important role to play, to use our health and social services wisely. The brochure and self-care handbook gives people tools for their active participation in their own health and well-being, increases confidence in self-care and promotes good health. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 13-14(6): Do I Need To See The Nurse Or Doctor?

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Minister's Statement 14-14(6): Family Violence Legislation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to report on the progress of our work on family violence legislation.

The Department of Justice has completed researching the feasibility of introducing family violence legislation in the NWT. From this research and discussions with local stakeholders groups, we believe this legislation could be a useful legal tool for victims of family violence. I have discussed this issue with my Cabinet colleagues and have received their approval in principle.

Mr. Speaker, family violence legislation complements the Criminal Code process. This legislation provides a civil remedy that can be used whether or not the grounds exist to lay criminal charges. People who are at risk of violence can apply under this legislation, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for an emergency order. This emergency order could include:

• restraining the family member from contacting or communication with the victim;

• exclusive occupation of the residence;

• removal of the family member from the home;

• restrictions on contact or communication;

• police assistance to remove personal belongings to the victim;

• seizure of firearms; and,

• possession of personal property such as vehicles, bank accounts and credit cards.

Mr. Speaker, this legislation gives people who are at risk of violence another legal tool that they can use to protect themselves and their families. It gives everyone involved the opportunity to step back and consider their actions and options.

Mr. Speaker, in order to ensure this legislation is effective in the NWT, I believe we need to have a public consultation on whether or not our residents want this legislation and what the legislation should include. For example, we need to ask the public:

• Who should be able to apply for an order?

• What constitutes family violence?

• What remedies do we want to include in our legislation?

We also need to determine the most suitable and effective delivery model for all NWT communities. Family violence legislation is not just an issue in larger centres. Consultation needs to take place in large and small communities. We were proposing to begin a two or three-month consultation period in April. This consultation would form the basis of legislation introduced early in the mandate of the next Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, other jurisdictions have told us that it is crucial that consultation be done prior to developing and introducing this legislation. A thoughtful and thorough consultation builds awareness of the issue and support for this remedy. It will help us develop legislation that works in the North.

I understand some Members feel we are not moving quickly enough to deal with the issue of family violence. I understand some feel we should introduce legislation immediately. The earliest legislation could be ready for introduction is June, however, it would mean that important decisions would be made without the input of residents. Even if introduced in June, the earliest the legislation could be in force would be late 2003 or early 2004. This legislation will require considerable work and planning to implement.

Before implementing this legislation, extensive training must take place. RCMP officers, justices of the peace, shelter and crisis line workers all need to be trained on the legislation and their role. Other service providers, including community justice committees, victims' services groups, court workers, social workers and medical staff all need to be trained on how the orders work. A coordinator, a justice of the peace, a shelter/crisis line and additional RCMP officers may all need to be hired.

Public education on the protections available under this legislation must also take place before it is implemented. Family violence legislation will not protect residents if they are not aware of what protection is available to them.

Another option that could be considered is to table draft legislation during the June session. This legislation would be based on models adopted in other provinces and would be used as part of the consultation process on this issue. This would signal the government's commitment to enact this legislation but allow for a thorough consultation process.

Mr. Speaker, these are three options for how we can move forward with this legislation. All three show that the department is committed to proceeding with family violence legislation. I will consult further with my colleagues in the Legislative Assembly to determine the most effective way to proceed at this time. I recognize this is an important issue for all Members. I appreciate their continued support and interest.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 14-14(6): Family Violence Legislation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 89

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 15-14(6): Premier Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 89

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House this week to address the issue of territorial health care funding in Ottawa. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 15-14(6): Premier Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 89

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Any further Ministers' statements? Colleagues, I would like to direct your attention to the visitors' gallery and the Grade 2 students from Sissons School here in Yellowknife, along with their teacher Ms. Tara Brown.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Condolence On Passing Of Peter Elanik

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is with deep regret and much sadness that I wish to express my condolences to the Elanik family of Aklavik on the passing of Peter Elanik, who passed away February 12, 2003. My deepest sympathies with Peter's wife Mary Ann, and their children, Peter and Gordie Kasook. I would also like to extend my sympathy to Peter's other relatives, family and friends. Peter always took good care of his family. He was always great in assisting others in his community. Peter taught many children bush skills and survival skills.

With his wife Mary Ann, they took many young men and people down to the whaling camp to give them more experience on the land and the whaling activities, especially at Shingle Point on the Beaufort Sea. He worked as a counsellor on a casual basis at Charlie Soupay Friendship Centre. He had a positive impact on all those who knew him, especially the community of Aklavik. Peter will be greatly missed by the people of Aklavik and the surrounding communities. He was the kind of man who went out of his way to help others.

With the support of Peter's family, friends and relatives, I know his memory will always prevail and we will be able to overcome his loss and passing and carry on the work that Peter did. May God bless you all and be with you in this time of sorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Condolence On Passing Of Peter Elanik

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Indeed, condolences of the Legislature go to the family members. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, Mr. Speaker, I and the other Regular Members will be making statements about the Government of the Northwest Territories corporate capital planning process. As the committees apprised the House last week in our reports on the main estimates, Members have significant concerns about the process now used to rank projects in the capital plan. Mr. Speaker, Members discovered the Government of the Northwest Territories had adopted a revised corporate capital planning process starting with the 2002-2003 capital acquisition plan.

According to the explanation offered in appendix B of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates document, this process allows for the allocation of available capital funding according to priority and need on a government-wide basis, as opposed to the prior process of allocating a capital budget target to individual departments. Mr. Speaker, in theory, this sounds fair. But, Mr. Speaker, Members are not convinced that the application of the process has been so fair. Now, perhaps we have just a problem in communication.

Perhaps the government just hasn't properly explained how projects qualify for inclusion in the plan, but as things stand right now, we have not had reasonable explanations for a number of projects we have seen in the plan.

Another concern, Mr. Speaker, highlighted in last year's report and it continues this year, revolves around consultation. We have been told that community consultation is carried out on a departmental basis and that this consultation is taken into consideration in the development of the initial capital needs assessment, the ranking of the projects, and all the way through the review process. Unfortunately, Regular Members have not been given any evidence that these consultations are coordinated in any way, or if the communities see them as being adequate. Mr.

Speaker, public sector spending is often the exclusive economic driver in our smallest communities, yet we do not see the importance of that included in the criteria for ranking capital projects. Ranking projects by priorities that are led by the protection of people and the protection of assets does not allow for a more responsive approach that recognizes the social benefits of capital spending in small communities.

Mr. Speaker, as my colleagues will point out today, there is a broad range of concern over how this new capital planning process is rolled out. Members were very critical of this process when we considered the estimates last year, and are disappointed that we have not seen any significant improvement a full year later. We need to hear from the government that they will examine the process and work with the Regular Members to make sure that we have a fair, open and transparent process for setting the capital budget. We want a process that recognizes the needs and diversity of all of our regions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Capital Planning Consultation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, as well, have a concern with the corporate capital planning process that this government is now using, more in the area of planning and how projects would fit into that capital planning process. Previous to that, we used to, as Members, be informed on the five-year government capital plan and we would take that to our constituencies and meet with the leaders in our communities to discuss the importance of those initiatives in our communities. Mr. Speaker, those days seem to be gone.

Now we have a letter that gets sent out to communities saying this is what the plan is, but little discussion after that. In fact, when you take the document that we were going over this session, the main estimates, in that document there is a capital acquisition plan that lays out a five-year plan. Unfortunately, Mr.

Speaker, what we find from time to time is that we have projects that seem to just pop up in the plan without any prior discussion or knowledge from Members, without substantiation on the purposes of the new expenditures and how they've managed to leapfrog the other initiatives that have been laid out, and discussed and put into place with information that can be debated and we can carry back to our communities.

Mr. Speaker, this government plans on a five-year basis, as we know. But it's a 20-year cycle that the government uses to substantiate replacement of buildings and so on. We know when a new building is built that there is a 40-year life expectancy and somewhere in there, 20 years or so, will be a fairly significant retrofit. But we don't seem to see that anymore. We see a lot of changes happening in meetings and behind closed doors and we get to find out about it after a news release or after the department has gone through the process of planning with committee.

So we want to know if, in fact, this new plan that they've established is even going to be followed. Even as unclear as it is, we don't see that happening and we want to know why that is and if they are going to follow something that all residents of the territories can know that this government can be accountable on. Thank you.

---Applause

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Capital Planning Consultation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Inadequate Support For Small Communities In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the government develops the capital plans, we have been told that the departments consult with the communities to hear about their needs and priorities.

---Interjection

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Inadequate Support For Small Communities In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, when the Special Joint Committee on Non-Taxed-Based Community Affairs travelled to communities, we heard that many of the small community governments are not sure what capital functions they are expected to perform. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, many communities do not feel they have the support to be able to deal with their capital plan properly. Mr. Speaker, small communities cannot afford to have engineers on staff to help them, nor can GNWT engineers assist each community government with capital planning budgeting processes.

Many community governments do not have up-to-date information about the existing municipal facilities. Many do not have a maintenance management system in place. With turnover in the administration of municipal governments, communities need better ways to keep track of their information about the condition and repairs done to facilities. This information would help in identifying needs and priorities when the time comes for any input into the capital planning process, Mr. Speaker. The skills that are needed to plan and manage infrastructure projects are specialized.

Small communities do not have the money to employ engineers and planners on a full-time basis. How, then, Mr. Speaker, is a small community expected to participate in a consultation in a meaningful way, Mr. Speaker? This government needs to provide better support to small community governments to do their capital planning and project management. Small communities need this government to assist with provision of engineering support and maintenance management systems. I will be following up with questions to the appropriate Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Inadequate Support For Small Communities In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the government introduced a new corporate capital planning process last year, we were told that the preliminary five-year plan is first reviewed by a deputy ministers' steering committee, then it is reviewed by the Financial Management Board prior to its review by standing committees. The final approval is given when presented in the main estimates to the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, this new process was introduced and implemented without any input from Members on this side of the House.

I am particularly concerned about an apparent expansion in the role the deputy ministers' steering committee plays in setting priorities for capital spending. Mr. Speaker, while I recognize that ultimately Ministers and Members of the Legislative Assembly are accountable to the public on how public money is voted on and spent, the capital review committee is composed entirely of deputy ministers. Mr. Speaker, with this approach, Ministers may never know about all the projects proposed or which ones were dropped from consideration.

Certainly, Members are not able to get that level of detail when reviewing business plans. If the details of the process remain more transparent, Mr. Speaker, the public and Members of this Legislature would know about the consultations that have taken place. You would hear about the projects that were initially proposed and which ones were non-starters. Most importantly, Mr. Speaker, we would know how the deputy ministers review committee arrived at their last capital spending priority recommendations for the Financial Management Board. Mr.

Speaker, because it is unfair to both myself and other Members of this House just how the final decisions are made, I have to form my own judgments and conclusions about how projects are justified. I know that the capital budget is limited, Mr. Speaker, and that there is not much money to go around. Let's satisfy the public and ourselves that what we do have to spend is adequately and reasonably justified. Mr. Speaker, I have always advocated for an open and transparent government.

I strongly believe that the capital planning process is transparent as well and the reasons for decisions to remove or include projects should be communicated to all concerned. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Fairness And Equity In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. These days there is a constant tug-of-war in our Assembly for the money available for building and maintaining our schools, roads, airports and other infrastructure. It's further complicated, Mr. Speaker, in our consensus system of governing with the very legitimate expectations of departments and agencies, MLAs and Ministers, communities and regions, that everyone will get a share of the pie.

Let's face it. As MLAs, we all want to see something built, something improved, something new in each of our ridings and towns at least once in our four-year terms. But with a shrinking capital budget pegged this year at only $74 million, it's not a realistic or a sustainable expectation. How do we address it? How do we manage to do this to satisfy the ideal of fiscal fairness and yet deliver spending where and when it's most needed and get the best value for the taxpayers' dollar?

In previous Assemblies, Mr. Speaker, departments have had more or less a constant amount of dollars. After departments and MLAs and committees have worked out priorities, a letter was sent to mayors and chiefs. It was sent by the Premier to describe the spending initiatives planned for the coming year in each community. It invited comment, but no real input into planning. This changed somewhat with this Assembly. Now there is one pool of money the departments must share.

For the past two years, a committee of deputy ministers has used a priority system rating safety or people and property first, to work out who gets how much money. Mr. Speaker, MLAs have been frustrated with this approach. It diminishes our voices and the voices of community and regional leaders in how capital dollars are spent. Informing the municipalities and regions after the decisions have been made is not the way to go.

A suggestion I would like to make is that we look at a process where community leaders, MLAs and officials from the departments can all get together and create a spending plan that has everyone's interests in mind. Mr. Speaker, at one time I believe community governments were encouraged to prepare a multi-year community capital plan within their fiscal framework. This makes sense.

To take the idea one step further, I would suggest that we only need to do this once every four years at the beginning of our terms, so we can reduce the annual spending scrimmage that takes up so much of our time and creates so much uncertainty and conflict at the community level and here in this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Fairness And Equity In The Capital Planning Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Public Expectations For Capital Spending

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the finance Minister in his Budget Address tells us that we must slow down capital investment, and that total capital investment expenditures are expected to decrease 48 percent from $143 million in 2002-2003 to $74 million in 2003-2004. Mr. Speaker, we know that this is not enough to meet all the needs of the Northwest Territories. We know that much of our infrastructure is aging. Although the economy is booming in some places, we do not get the full benefit of corporate taxes or royalties that are being generated.

Without this additional money, we cannot replace or build new needed facilities. The business community recognizes the problem and has been very supportive in lobbying the federal government to invest more money in the Northwest Territories. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, I think that we have to be realistic about our expectations for capital spending. Most of the capital budget is eaten up in the maintenance and upkeep in existing facilities, roads, water and sewer, et cetera. This leaves very little money left over for new projects. Mr.

Speaker, in an effort to better manage what little money is available for discretionary spending, the government has introduced a new system that attempts to assign priority to community needs and I applaud the government for trying to make the best use of what is available. However, Mr. Speaker, perhaps the government could do a better job of explaining this new scheme.

When the special committee met with people in the communities across the North, they heard that the ranking criteria used in the capital planning process have not been adequately explained, that projected O and M costs are not adequately documented and that there is no systematic consideration of location options for regional and territorial facilities. Mr. Speaker, the residents of the Northwest Territories have expectations that this government will build and maintain roads, health centres, and recreational facilities in each community.

Because the process used to identify and rate projects is not well understood, we may be raising public expectations unrealistically. Mr. Speaker, the capital budget is not nearly enough to replace the aging infrastructure or to meet the demands of population growth and program demands. In fact, it is barely enough to maintain what is already in place. This makes it even more important that the government be very open and transparent about the choices that are made for new spending. Community expectations have been raised when they have been consulted and when they have identified their priorities.

This government should be prepared to explain how they made the choice of which project to support and which ones to drop. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Public Expectations For Capital Spending

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to focus on the need to link capital spending to service delivery standards in the communities. Mr. Speaker, Northerners have a right to fair and equitable access to services. Although it is not realistic to expect all services to be provided at the local level, it is fair to expect to have access to education, health care, policing services and addiction services. Alcohol and drug abuse has long been an epidemic in the North. We know about it and we know something needs to be done. The dollars have to follow the words.

We need to focus on capital spending on facilities to support people who want to become sober and drug free. People are asking for these services, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we really want to help solve a lot of the social problems in the territories, we have to help people get off drugs and alcohol. We need to spend some capital money on addictions facilities to support the work of the addiction workers. Mr. Speaker, our current practice of hiring an alcohol and drug counsellor in communities is, at best, a token gesture.

Without providing any other support or facility programs, we are setting up both the counsellor and the addict for failure. The Premier and Ministers have said we have to quit smoking and drinking. It seems to me that the words and actions of the government do not match. Mr. Speaker, the government recently spent about $50 million creating a territorial jail. If even one-fifth of this was channeled to the prevention of addictions, we would have healthier Northerners. I do not think that the current process used to identify and choose capital projects puts enough of a priority on the health of the NWT residents.

I would like to see changes in how projects are picked. The health and welfare of Northerners comes ahead of protecting and maintaining government facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Balanced Approach To Capital Spending

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, am concerned about the current process used to identify projects. As I understand the ranking criteria, Mr. Speaker, the priorities are not seen to consider the needs of the small communities of the North. These criteria, especially the protection of people, may lead to projects from larger centres being placed before the needs of smaller communities. We need a more balanced approach to capital investment, Mr. Speaker.

The government needs to establish a mechanism for meeting community involvement in the planning process, not just for local planning but for regional and territorial planning needs as well. The government also needs to ensure there is sufficient capital money to allocate the projects in smaller communities, even if it means not spending on mega projects such as territorial facilities that are not located in the smaller communities. There needs to be a mechanism set aside for the capital budget to meet the needs of the smaller communities based on planning criteria that is meaningful to their needs.

I believe the government needs to make some changes to the ranking criteria for capital projects. The criteria should be simple and easily understood. It's not enough to just have a process either, Mr. Speaker. When decisions are made, it must be seen by all. Mr. Speaker, decisions on which capital projects get funded cannot be made behind closed doors with no explanation to the communities nor to the standing committees to justify those decisions. The government should be prepared to provide information about capital needs and the way priorities are assigned to projects.

They should be prepared to report back to the municipal governments about the results of their input. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Balanced Approach To Capital Spending

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to add an opinion about this very important topic. Mr. Speaker, I think that the reality of our financial situation is quite dire. I think while there is a consensus that we have to do our necessary spending, the approaching debt wall in front of us is getting closer and closer. Mr. Speaker, one thing that needs to be remembered is the fact that this government has seen a major, major reduction in capital spending. Just in this year, capital expenditures are expected to decrease by 48 percent from $143 million last year to $74 million in this coming year.

This is a very small amount out of $611 million in the total budget. I do believe that, as long as we have so little money in the capital budget, we will continue to hear concerns about what's going on behind closed doors and the ever present feeling that whoever squeaks the loudest or whoever bugs the Minister hardest or whoever pounds the desk the loudest will get the capital budget in their riding. Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate that this government has to make very tough choices in order to meet the spending needs in areas such as health and social services, but I think it's incumbent on all of us to come up with ways to do it better and reduce costs where we can. I think there are many realities that I must point out as a Member from Yellowknife, which is seen as one of the richest areas. But the reality is, Mr. Speaker, that the tax-based communities are not getting a lot of help from the GNWT to replace their aging infrastructure.

Residents in tax-based communities have to pay more in the way of municipal taxes, but we have to line up behind every other community to get capital projects.

---Interjection

There is a public perception, Mr. Speaker, that a lot of the capital budget is spent in Yellowknife and this is not true. While it may be true that the budget is being spent at territorial facilities in Yellowknife, these facilities are not for the sole use of Yellowknife but for all Northerners. We have needs for schools and recreational complexes like everyone else, and I believe we need...Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

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Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her Member's statement. Are there any nays?

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Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

An Hon. Member

Nay.

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Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Sorry, Ms. Lee , you won't be able to conclude your Member's statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Transparency Of Capital Planning Ranking Criteria

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As far as the gentlemen on the other side of the floor are concerned, we are all the same.

---Laughter

The capital planning process, Mr. Speaker, I, like my colleagues, would like to highlight some of the concerns we have with the supposedly new and improved capital acquisition process. If you go on the web site, Mr. Speaker, under capital acquisitions, you will find that the discussion begins something like this: "Commencing with the development of the capital acquisition plan for 02-03, the government has adopted a revised corporate capital planning process.

The process allows for the allocation of available capital funding according to priority and need on a government-wide basis, as opposed to the prior process of allocating a capital budget target to individual departments." Mr. Speaker, it's hard to argue with that, but I think in the past, the public might suggest that the prior practice was simply of Cabinet sitting around and divvying up projects as horse trading exercises, Mr. Speaker. We all know this is a new time. We are new and improved. We are rehabilitated, as it were.

We know we have limited resources and certainly not unlimited needs, insatiable wants. So, in theory, Mr. Speaker, this new process looks fine. But there is almost no way to clearly link this process to GNWT priorities. For that matter, Mr. Speaker, it's hard to define what our priorities are. We certainly can't look to the document we produced at the beginning of the Assembly, Towards a Better Tomorrow, to give us a documentation of our detailed priorities. It just doesn't do that. It's too vague and at too high a level. Mr.

Speaker, without identifying these priorities, it's almost impossible to make a clear link between the capital process and our strategic priorities. If we are going to do anything, Mr. Speaker, step one has to be identifying our priorities in a clear manner and articulating them. Step two, Mr. Speaker, would be to apply ranking criteria to determine what projects should have highest priority. This would give us, and the public certainly, a transparent mechanism for scoring the projects. We would see how they stack up against other projects and this simply isn't the case right now, Mr. Speaker.

As we know, and other Members have mentioned, currently this exercise is done by deputy ministers behind closed doors and it's not good, Mr. Speaker. Ministers on that side of the House have to be prepared to stand up and discuss the ranking and scoring of these projects with Members and with the public so that we can see where they compare. The lack of transparency just creates suspicion. It casts a shadow over the whole process, Mr. Speaker. When Regular Members ask for justification, at best we get a thick, technical assessment of a facility that purports to outline the shortfalls of that individual facility.

But, Mr. Speaker, oftentimes it's about the size of a Toronto phonebook. This is not the same as a score sheet comparing a project against others on the basis of some agreed upon criteria. So, Mr. Speaker, if this truly is our objective, if it is not about patronage and not about pork-barrelling, we shouldn't be afraid to show it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Transparency Of Capital Planning Ranking Criteria

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Appreciation Evening In Jean Marie River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 94

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this part of our agenda gives us the opportunity as MLAs to say a few things about your constituency. I will take the opportunity today to thank the community of Jean Marie for inviting me when they had their appreciation evening on February 8th, last Saturday. The community put together a feast and dance and made presentations to members of the community who have contributed to their community over the years.

The reason for doing that is, in our society in the North, in our small communities, we have different leaders and different people who contribute to our society and our communities and we don't seem to appreciate the time and energy people put into trying to make a better place for people living in the communities. On February 8th, Chief Fred Norwegian and his councillors saw fit to recognize previous chiefs and councillors of Jean Marie and their elders who have contributed to making their community what it is today.

There are many people coming out of Jean Marie River to pursue their careers throughout the North and the south. I think it's from the early beginnings when their community leaders of the day like Louis Norwegian, Jimmy Sanguez, Johnny Sanguez, Gabe Sanguez, Henry Ekali, all these different elders who people don't know in the mainstream in the NWT that they did work very hard and urged their children to get an education and pursue careers. It was a very good evening that allowed me to reflect on our work here and throughout the North.

I think there are many people in other communities and in government and other places, the Member of Parliament and Senators. We seem to focus on looking at the negative side instead of looking at the positive side. I think there are many positives in the North. We have reason to be proud of the work that we do and the work that our people in the communities do. Once again, I just wanted to share with you my tour in my constituency. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Appreciation Evening In Jean Marie River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Colleagues, I would like to bring your attention to the presence in the Speaker's Gallery of Robert Marleau. He's former Clerk of the House of Commons from 1987 to 2000. He is probably the leading authority on procedural matters in Houses of Parliament. Mr. Marleau is here along with his wife Anne to give the Board of Management some assistance on procedural matters. Please welcome Mr. Marleau to the Assembly.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have a number of people in the gallery today who are here to witness some of the work we are doing on our strategy and legislation to reduce impaired driving. I would like to recognize three of them. First of all, Ms. Louise Knox, who is the national president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

---Applause

Then, as well, Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce Mr. Percy Kinney, the chief coroner of the Northwest Territories and also Major Karen Hoeft, director of community development of the Salvation Army. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, as well, would like to recognize Dr. Ross Wheeler, medical advisor to the registrar.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Ootes .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the students from St. Patrick High School, the SADD members, along with their teachers Ms. Thoms and Ms. O'Brien.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Mr. Gary Walsh who is director of road licensing and safety, Department of Transportation, who is also here because of special interest in Bill 5,

An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act , which we should read later today.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 95

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to recognize students here today with us from the Sir John Franklin High School Students Against Drunk Driving

chapter and their teacher/advisor Ms. Dianne Simons. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 95

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this time to also recognize the Students Against Drunk Drivers. I would also like to take this opportunity to wish my son Mason a happy 5th birthday today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome everyone who is here today to see their Legislative Assembly in session. Welcome. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs with regard to the whole capital planning process for smaller communities. Our municipalities play an important role in community development and community planning and they also ensure that our community infrastructure is taken care of. Mr. Speaker, capital spending is very important to our small communities. It creates such things as jobs and also improves our infrastructure. Yet, Mr. Speaker, what we find under the new capital planning process is that consultation does not really fit in the process. Mr.

Speaker, the communities have to be involved. What is the government doing to do a better job of coordinating the consultation process between the departments, the regions and the communities so that we'll have community input into the capital planning process?

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Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in order to improve the capital planning consultation process, MACA is presently working with the superintendents in the region to put together planning, so that we can arrange for the capital planning process and the discussions to take place in each individual community with the superintendent for that particular region. We used to do that in the past and it was replaced with a capital planning process where MACA took on the responsibility to address capital planning needs for all the departments and bring that information to the community in that manner.

However, MACA is back to simply concentrating on community affairs capital planning needs. Thank you.

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Return To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the present time, the communities don't seem to fit into these loops. What is the reporting process that's used to ensure that community feedback into any capital planning process is in place, so that they know when they request or have concerns in capital or infrastructure needed in their community, they really get to yourself as Minister? What's the reporting practice used to ensure that their answers are being addressed and there is a reporting process in place?

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Supplementary To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, like I said, MACA is planning to go into each individual community and work out with the community early in the new year what their capital planning needs are for the next five years. We are planning for that time of the year because it's right after the municipal elections and some of the political needs of the community are addressed right after municipal elections. So it's changed at that time. Their priorities change sometimes as the political people change at the community level.

So we go in there and try and get updated information from the community as to what they see as their priority needs. We then take that back to the FMBS and turn that information over to them to deal with in the capital planning process from thereon. We are planning that after FMBS has worked out what we can afford to do, and what can be done, and in what part of the year, we are going to come back to the communities with that information.

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Further Return To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a lot of times community capital planning priorities aren't being considered by this government because they fall outside of the criteria for infrastructure that meets the requirements of the existing capital plan, especially in communities that may be lacking recreation facilities such as a ball diamond or a youth centre or a curling rink. Yet, because it's not one of the priorities in the criteria, communities may wait years for this to happen. How formal a process are we talking about? Right now, the communities do not feel that they are part of this process.

Could the Minister tell me, exactly how does a community get those types of projects into this capital planning process?

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Supplementary To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as for how formal a process it is, MACA generally requires from the community either a motion from the council, the hamlet council, or from the band that would support their requests for capital. We then take that back to FMBS. It's through that process that the needs of the communities are addressed if the government can afford those needs. However, the process of getting back to the community to advise them what we can afford to do that year, we do through a consultation with them after we approve the business plans and they see some of these results in the budget. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's great what we hear from the Minister, but we have to put it into practice. Do you have criteria that are used so that our municipalities...Say you have a newly elected council, you could put something up on the board and say this is the process that you have to follow to get a capital project through this government. Do you have such a preliminary outline of a process that's in place where you can actually see it and it's in black and white? Is there such a document?

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Supplementary To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, MACA, along with the other departments, will be advising the communities of the process that has been approved for capital planning approval. We will take that into the communities, so they are well aware of the process that is being used at this present time, and ask them for input on whether or not they see the need for changes or whether or not there will be any changes in the long run. Bear in mind, the fact that we have a corporate capital planning process right now. I think the important part, Mr.

Speaker, is that communities will be advised that they have input at a certain time of the year. We meet with either the community councils or the planning committee, whatever the communities see as the one that's handling the capital planning for that particular community. Those are the people we meet with and that's the process we are using. Thank you.

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Further To Question 23-14(6): Capital Planning Consultation Process In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat . I understand FMBS is responsible for the corporate capital planning process. Mr. Speaker, Members clearly do not feel that the government is being as open as they should be about how projects get approved in the capital plan. We've noticed that when pressed, departmental Ministers seem to be vague on the details. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister tell us, have all Cabinet Ministers been briefed or trained on how the system is supposed to work?

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Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the FMBS , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, yes, all of the Ministers have been briefed on the corporate capital planning process. But Mr. Speaker, also let me say that, having heard from the Members in the last capital planning cycle and in this one, we are now in the process of reviewing our corporate capital planning process and are looking at bringing something forward very soon. Thank you.

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Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate hearing that there are going to be some changes. The Premier had made a commitment to revisit the corporate capital planning process including the application of the ranking criteria. So Members have been awaiting word on when that would take place. When does the Minister expect -- he said shortly -- Regular Members hearing what changes they recommend?

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Supplementary To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the FMB, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, we currently have a committee that is looking at the ways we go about meeting our infrastructure needs. They are undertaking that task right now. I expect to have something to FMB in terms of a proposal of how we could handle it, including the 2004-05 planning year and to have that within the next week to two weeks. As soon as I have approval from FMB, then I will bring it to AOC as a proposal. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, based on the criteria that are now in place, is the Minister confident that he can provide justification to support the capital projects that are included in the 2003-04 budget?

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Supplementary To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the FMB, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, certainly we would not have put the capital projects in the plan if we didn't feel that we could support them and substantiate them. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Your final supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the government is confident that they can justify the projects as they stand in the corporate capital plan now, why has that detailed information never been supplied to the committees?

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Supplementary To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the FMB, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure exactly which detailed information the Member is referring to. We have provided information back to the committee when the letter was received. As we go through the main estimates for each department, we will provide further detail on any capital projects that are included in the 2003-2004 Main Estimates. I don't think there is a difficulty there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 24-14(6): Review Of The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Michael Miltenberger . Mr. Speaker, last week when the Minister gave his Budget Address, he was wearing old moccasins. What he was meaning is that we are in a time of limited financial means and that we must make do with what we have. Mr. Speaker, I see a lot of money going to upgrades in schools and hospitals. Maintaining current facilities eats up a lot of capital dollars. This is fine when infrastructure exists in an area, but it is frustrating when no infrastructure exists.

What it has created is a situation of haves and have-nots. Is the priority of health and social services the protection of people or the protection of assets? Thank you.

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Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, clearly the focus of all we do is to provide service to the people in the communities. To do that, of course, we need facilities that are maintained and operational and able to provide a place from which to provide these services. Thank you.

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Return To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for the answer. I would like to ask him, why do we see money going to building renovations in larger centres for the protection of assets when there is not enough for a health centre in Wekweti which could save lives? What is the priority of the Minister? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, once again, my priority as Minister in this government is to provide the best possible level of health and social services to all the people in the Northwest Territories. We recognize there are different levels of services in some of the communities, especially the smaller ones, and we are of the opinion that it would be very poor management to let current facilities fall to wrack and ruin and focus only on building new facilities. So we are trying to maintain a balance to address both issues. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, if we do get the extra funding from Ottawa, would he try to at least standardize some of the health care in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Supplementary To 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the goals of the action plan is to come up with an integrated service delivery model that will give us that base to work towards. Some communities will have services above the baseline depending on their size. Some may be below. Our challenge will be to bring to those communities that do not have those basic services up to that basic level. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Supplementary To 25-14(6): Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of MACA . The Special Joint Committee on Non-Tax-Based Communities highlighted the need for a better capital planning process for the communities. This included better support to communities for planning infrastructure needs. What is the government doing to help municipal governments get access to the skills and resources that they need for infrastructure planning? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think the government, not just MACA, but FMBS has been reviewing the interim report from the non-tax-based special committee. We are looking at the request that they've made and the suggestions they've made for changes to the corporate capital planning process. I believe the government wants to respond to the committee when we've seen the final report from the committee. Thank you.

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Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the government is looking at the interim report. The special committee also recommended the government consider a formal municipal infrastructure plan to modify the maintenance management system that the communities already use. Will MACA work with municipal governments to explore this further? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, MACA will work with them. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the upkeep and maintenance of existing facilities take up a lot of the existing capital budget. What is MACA doing to work with the municipalities to ensure that the facilities' upkeep and maintenance is done on par with the need of the facility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe MACA works with Public Works in working out an O and M cycle for maintenance in the buildings and renovations as the buildings get older. We do have some form of a

schedule worked out with Public Works to identify with the community what a replacement of those buildings would be in relation to the age of the buildings. We are working with the five-year capital planning processes up to 20-year capital planning processes. However, concentrations are normally in the first five years because that's when the priority funding is identified. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the finance Minister borrowed your moccasins to do his Budget Address, I was hoping his colleagues would wear all of our shoes, so that they could walk a mile in our shoes and understand where we are coming from. I was appalled to find out, Mr. Speaker, that the government did not have a multi-use facility policy. Therefore, they don't build facilities that are multi-use. Arenas, for example. The biggest O and M cost is the arena. What is the position of MACA or Public Works, Mr. Speaker, on multi-purpose buildings? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is quite right. I don't believe we have ever had a design for a multi-purpose building. MACA is now starting to look at what this would include and how it could possibly build this type of building that would address more than one specific need. I believe the intent of the communities is to address housing, and office needs for the other departments, as well as some of the social needs of the communities such as day care centres. We are now looking at a design for that type of building. We don't have one at this time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Question 26-14(6): Capital Planning And Maintenance Schedules In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 27-14(6): Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the negotiator Mr. Handley . Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my Member's statement, we are all aware of the new process for capital planning projects. There are a number of concerns from this side of the House, and it's been expressed on an ongoing basis, and I am glad to hear the Minister state that they are looking at that and they are going to give us some information as to what is to come. What process is in place for how the Ministers deal with the deputy ministers on what projects are given the go ahead and what projects have been dropped off? What process is taking place between Ministers and deputy ministers?

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Question 27-14(6): Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the FMBS , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 27-14(6): Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Question 27-14(6): Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 99

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, under the corporate capital planning process, the process has been to rank projects according to their importance right across the Territories starting with protection of people, to protection of assets, to protection of environment, and our financial investment, and finally meeting program needs. We have used that process. As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, we are now looking at changing that process in response to the suggestions, recommendations and comments that have been made by Members. So we are going through that now. For the next planning pr