Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1992

This is page numbers 235 - 250 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was policy .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Minister Of Justice's Lack Of Response To Questions Regarding Legal Aid

Waiving

Section Of Business Incentive Policy

News/north's Coverage Of Mr. Patterson's Resignation From Cabinet

Workplace Safety Education And Awareness

Inequities In Subsidies For Water And Sewer Services

Professionalism Of R.c.m.p. Yellowknife Detachment

G.n.w.t. Policy On Decentralization

South Slave Divisional Board Of Education Decision Regarding House Parents

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Water And Sewer Subsidy In Tax-based Municipalities

Furniture Contract For Legislative Assembly Building

Corrective Act To Ensure Pensioners Receive Cheques In Timely Fashion

Salaries And Operating Costs When Ferry Shut Down

Written Question 7-12(3): Status Of The South Slave Divisional Board Of Education

Written Question 8-12(3): Activities Of The Languages Commissioner

Statistics From Secure Custody Young Offenders Facilities

Statistics For The Women's Correctional Centre In Fort Smith

Statistics On In-service Training Person Years

Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Court Decisions On The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Mr. Todd , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 235

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Before I begin the orders of the day, I would like to recognize in the visitors' gallery, students from the Arctic College Executive Secretary Program, and their instructor Suzanne Linttell.

---Applause

Also in the visitors' gallery today we have students from the Northern Studies Program at Sir John Franklin High School, and their instructor George Diveky.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Zoe .

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Minister Of Justice's Lack Of Response To Questions Regarding Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 235

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express serious concern about the response this House received yesterday from the Minister of Justice on key questions regarding the government's response to the Auditor General. Mr. Speaker, the report of the Auditor General of Canada on this government's 1990-91 financial statements pointed to several critical deficiencies in the administration of the legal aid system. This is an important issue, Mr. Speaker. In 1990-91, the legal aid system spent $4.6 million. Over the past five years, legal aid costs have increased by 112 per cent.

Yet, the Auditor General of Canada reported that the Department of Justice was not able to produce accurate statistics, that controls were inadequate, and that statutory requirements for reporting to the House had not been met.

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts was extremely concerned about these shortcomings, Mr. Speaker, and commented on them in a report brought to this Assembly on June 25 and October 1, 1992. The Public Accounts Committee made three specific recommendations: to improve the department's computer information system; to establish appropriate eligibility criteria and means testing procedures; and, to develop a simply worded code of rights and responsibilities so that people could better understand the legal aid system.

I am shocked and dismayed by the way the Minister responded to yesterday's questions on whether his department has made progress. He did not know the answers, Mr. Speaker. To make matters worse, he stated that if we do not give him advance notice, we cannot expect him to know the answers to our questions. Mr. Speaker, this is an unacceptable response. This issue was highlighted by the Auditor General and serious concerns were brought to this House by the standing committee.

The department should be ashamed to find the sort of conditions that were reported to exist within the legal aid system. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

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Minister Of Justice's Lack Of Response To Questions Regarding Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 235

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Zoe .

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Minister Of Justice's Lack Of Response To Questions Regarding Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 235

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and honourable colleagues. The Minister should be asking for regular updates on what the department is doing. He should be monitoring their work to make sure that it gets done. If he is doing his job, he should not require advance notice of questions in order to be able to provide at the very least, a progress report on this management priority within his department. That is what leadership and ministerial accountability are all about, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

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Minister Of Justice's Lack Of Response To Questions Regarding Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 235

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Dent .

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Waiving

Section Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 235

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Monday when the Committee of the Whole considered the Legislative Assembly's capital budget, I raised some important questions about the process used to tender furniture requirements for the new Legislative Assembly building. Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment on this process today, and in particular on the decision to waive the five per cent bid adjustment for local content during the evaluation of these tenders.

As most honourable Members will be aware, our Business Incentive Policy provides for a tender adjustment of 15 per cent for northern content. It also provides for an additional five per cent tender adjustment for local content, unless otherwise specified in the contract documents. Mr. Speaker, my concern this afternoon is that the Minister decided to waive the local content adjustment on this tender. It does not seem right that decisions about whether to waive certain parts of the Business Incentive Policy are made without a set of specific guidelines.

Without them, northern businesses are left frustrated and wondering whether unfair advantage has been given to other bidders. It is important for the Minister to ensure consistency in the application of the Business Incentive Policy. A decision to waive the five per cent local preference adjustment in one case, will be seen by the business community as a precedent to be considered in other tenders. If the government is going to establish such incentives in its policies only to waive them at a later time, then why have them there at all?

Mr. Speaker, I will be calling on the Minister of Public Works to provide this House with some clarification of the rationale for his decisions with regard to the furniture tender for the Legislative Assembly building. I will also be asking the Minister to develop a set of specific criteria, detailing the circumstances under which tender adjustment requirements are to be waived. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Waiving

Section Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Nerysoo .

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News/north's Coverage Of Mr. Patterson's Resignation From Cabinet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again the Northern News Services has got an issue wrong. I think the matter of Mr. Patterson 's resignation in this House is not a result of weeks of attacks or, for that matter, rumours. The note which was sent is a matter of very serious consideration of this House.

I want to read a

section regarding a matter of privilege: Beauchesne's citation 93, "it is generally accepted that any threat or attempt to influence the vote or actions of a Member is a breach of privilege." The note which was sent could be considered a serious breach of privilege. Most Members know that such a matter is of serious consequence.

Even more importantly, the honourable Member passed that note as a Minister, one who is responsible for and acts on behalf of all Members. His actions are seen as being responsible to and for Members.

I wanted to make that point because I do not want to hear the suggestion that Mr. Patterson is on this side of the House as a result of some rumour or a tax from the ordinary Members of this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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News/north's Coverage Of Mr. Patterson's Resignation From Cabinet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements, Ms. Mike .

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Workplace Safety Education And Awareness

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to comment today on workplace safety, education and enforcement.

While I realize that the Workers' Compensation Board portfolio is now vacant, it is my view that there are too many outstanding issues to allow the matter of the Workers' Compensation Board in the Northwest Territories to await the appointment of a permanent Minister. During this interim period, I would expect that the Government Leader , who is now the acting Minister, will also be an active Minister.

The honourable Members will recall the former Minister's acknowledgement that the W.C.B. is developing a scheme for sending employers money on more PYs and the bigger administration budget to carry out the workplace safety education and awareness. Mr. Speaker, I do not agree with the way the Workers' Compensation Board is trying to become the sole delivery agent for workplace safety programming. I believe that this will create a costly duplication of services and an unclear mandate.

The establishment of policies for the Department of Safety and Public Services states that the Minister and the department have the mandate for the administration of public safety in the Northwest Territories, including promoting and enforcing public and workers' safety. Further, the government's own programs and service manual clearly state that one of the purposes of the safety division is to provide safety education programs, to create a positive safety attitude and lower accident rates.

The department already has this mandate, Mr. Speaker. Why has the Workers' Compensation Board moved into this area by creating its own self-serving safety department? A regional presence will be required to carry out safety awareness and education programs in all communities in the Northwest Territories. The Department of Safety and Public Services already had that regional presence. Inspectors with the Department of Safety and Public Services already perform a safety education and awareness function during work site visits.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Workplace Safety Education And Awareness

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Ms. Mike .

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Workplace Safety Education And Awareness

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and colleagues. If the Workers' Compensation Board really wants to have an impact on workplace safety, it will consider making agreements with the G.N.W.T. to fund effective cross training, using existing human resources and operations.

Honestly, Mr. Speaker, this government is going to have to start clearing up the confusion and doing a better job in this area. That will not be accomplished by handling responsibilities for safety programs through the Workers' Compensation Board, which is Yellowknife based, and which sees itself accountable only to organized labour, large industrial associations and has a recent record of questionable financial responsibilities.

It will be accomplished by holding the Minister of Safety and Public Services accountable for the mandate which already applies to his department and by providing him with the appropriate financial support through a memorandum of understanding with the W.C.B. and the cost effective use of existing resources. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Workplace Safety Education And Awareness

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Inequities In Subsidies For Water And Sewer Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 236

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very concerned about the apparent inequities in the manner in which the government provides subsidy programs to municipalities in the

Northwest Territories for the provision of water and sewage services.

At the present time the Department of Municipal Community Affairs administers the water and sewage subsidy program that pays the difference between the economic and subsidized rates of water and sewer services to residential and commercial users in the settlement corporations and the hamlets. With the exception of Norman Wells and Iqaluit, there are no water or sewer subsidy program for tax-based municipalities. Norman Wells and Iqaluit receive subsides that are negotiated in the turn over agreements with this government.

I understand that a policy was developed by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs to deal with the water and sewer subsidy for taxed-based municipalities, but that was never approved by the Financial Management Board. When we, in Fort Simpson, first heard about it we were quite happy about the positive move of this government.

Mr. Speaker, this situation caused a great deal of inequity within the system and placed a great deal of financial strain on municipal taxing authorities. In Fort Simpson, the current policy on water and sewer subsidy has caused a tremendous strain on the financial resources of the municipal government. Although classified as a tax-based municipality, the village of Fort Simpson simply does not have a large tax-base to draw upon. In fact, it is smaller in actual population than the larger hamlets, such as Pond Inlet, Rae-Edzo or Pangnirtung.

Despite this, the current policy of the government is that the current water and sewer system in Fort Simpson should be operating as a stand-alone system. This is simply unrealistic.

Mr. Speaker, the best possible solution for this problem is for the government to introduce a water and sewer subsidy program for all tax-based municipalities. Failing that, an exception must be made to recognize the special difficulties faced by Fort Simpson and to provide a subsidy program to the community, similar to what is available to hamlets in the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

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Inequities In Subsidies For Water And Sewer Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements, Mr. Morin .

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Professionalism Of R.c.m.p. Yellowknife Detachment

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning I was at the Yellowknife detachment of the R.C.M.P. to provide assistance with an incident. I was impressed by the manner in which the obviously over-worked and under-staffed detachment goes about its business. This potentially dangerous and stressful situation was handled in a quiet and efficient manner, with compassion shown for all involved, including the suspect. The policemen, some of whom had worked all night and were supposed to be off shift at 3:00 a.m., were still at work without complaints until the problem was resolved at 8:00 a.m.

The situation was potentially dangerous due to the fact that weapons were involved, but it was handled without fuss, and with no injury to anyone.

The citizens of this city should be grateful for the quality of police officers it has who provide protection under trying circumstances. I, for one, have had a view of the Yellowknife detachment that makes me sleep better after seeing the type of people who do the work and the way they go about keeping peace in this community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Professionalism Of R.c.m.p. Yellowknife Detachment

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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G.n.w.t. Policy On Decentralization

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to raise some points on a policy which this government is adopting. This policy is being called decentralization. It is called decentralization because some positions are being moved out of Yellowknife. I know that this is a sore point for the people and Members of Yellowknife. I would like to point out that it is also a sore point for the communities that are not the centre of each region. Mr. Antoine and other Members have made reference to this.

Between sessions I was able to talk to a number of people from hamlet councils, regional and community organizations mostly in the two communities I represent, Baker Lake and Arviat.

What is being called decentralization by this government is not decentralization. It is recentralization of positions into regional centres. The present regional centres are: Inuvik; Cambridge Bay; Fort Smith; Rankin Inlet and Iqaluit. These are the five communities to which the majority of these positions are going. To me, that is recentralization, not decentralization. It is giving opportunities where there is already much economic activity. What are the communities which are not regional centres getting? Nothing, they are getting just token positions, as in Baker Lake.

I will use as an example a position which was moved from Baker Laker two years ago, which was the position of the regional arts and crafts officer under the Department of Economic Development and Tourism. That position, rather than being moved to Rankin Inlet, should have been moved to Arviat where the real need is. There is much higher unemployment in that community per capita than in other communities in the region.

Mr. Speaker, I for one, would like to see real decentralization in the transfer of more of these positions to the communities that really need the employment opportunities, such as Arviat. To me, that would be real decentralization of this government and not recentralization. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

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G.n.w.t. Policy On Decentralization

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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South Slave Divisional Board Of Education Decision Regarding House Parents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 237

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to comment on the decision announced by the South Slave Divisional Board of Education regarding the house parents at the Lutsel K'e boarding home

in Fort Smith. The honourable Members will know that I have raised this matter previously.

On November 19 and 20, I questioned the former Minister of Education about the fact that the committee had been established to investigate allegations surrounding the performance of the house parents. I was concerned at the time, that the so-called inquiry committee comprised several of the same board members who had earlier voted to suspend the house parents.

I questioned the Minister as to how they could possibly conduct an independent review. I remained concerned about that, Mr. Speaker, particularly now that their recommendations have apparently been used by the divisional board as the basis for terminating the house parents. I am even more concerned about the procedures that have been used in implementing this decision. The constituent to whom I had been talking was not personally informed of the divisional board's decision by telephone or personal contact. In fact, she was sent a letter around the same time that the press was advised of her termination. News/North received notification of her dismal before she did.

Mr. Speaker, this is not appropriate. I believe that this is a shameful way to treat people and it should not be tolerated by the government. Mr. Speaker, the House and divisional board should be clear about one thing. Subsection 23 of the Education Act provides that it is the Ministers responsibility to operate student residences and boarding programs for students. This may be delegated to the divisional board, but the statutory obligation of the Minister is clear under the act. Where is delegated authority being abused?

Where it is not being exercised according to proper standards of administrative conduct, the Minister should step in and take direct action. I trust that the Government Leader , in her capacity as acting Minister, will examine this matter and take action accordingly. Thank you.

---Applause

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South Slave Divisional Board Of Education Decision Regarding House Parents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 238

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 119-12(3): Economic Development Officer For Pelly Bay

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 238

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on November 26, 1992. It concerns the economic development officer for Taloyoak. The superintendent of Economic Development and Tourism for the Kitikmeot met with the Hamlet Council of Taloyoak on November 25, 1992, on the subject of filling the position of economic development officer for that community. At that time he informed the hamlet that the position was in the process of being advertised and that the council would be advised of development. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 119-12(3): Economic Development Officer For Pelly Bay

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 238

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Public Works . Earlier today I spoke about my concerns regarding the way furniture requirements for the new Legislative Assembly building have been tendered. I am particularly concerned about the decision to waive the requirements for the five per cent tender adjustment for local content which should have been provided under the Business Incentive Policy. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, will the Minister advise the House why the five per cent discount for local content was not applied to the evaluation of these bids?

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Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. After the decision was made for the five percent preference to be lifted from the supply of furniture to the Legislative Assembly we wrote to some M.L.A.s of the Legislative Assembly. I would be happy to table that letter in this House. Thank

you.

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Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a copy of that letter and I did want it on the public record, so I am glad to hear the Minister will be tabling it. I am aware of the reasons given in that letter, Mr. Speaker. I still have a problem with the process that was used in the tender call. The original tender documents were made available to prospective contractors on September 11, 1992. These documents indicated that the adjustment for local content would apply to bidders from Yellowknife and Dettah.

However, on September 30, just two days before the tender's closing date, an addendum was issued which indicated that local preference had been waived for this tender and only northern preference would apply. Mr. Speaker, this does not seem like a well planned decision. Can the Minister advise this House what new information he received between September 11 and 30 which convinced him that the tender adjustment for local content should be waived?

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Supplementary To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 238

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On all northern tenders the Business Incentive Policy is applied equally. There is a 15 per cent preference for northern businesses over southern businesses to equalize the higher cost of doing business in the Northwest Territories. There is also a five per cent preference given to local businesses to equalize doing business in a small community compared to a bigger

community. The Business Incentive Policy is not geared to give anybody an advantage over any other bidder. It is geared to equalize the bidding process. That is the reason this is done. All conditions of the tender are published when the initial tender documents are given to the contractors. Addendums to those contracts are a normal way of doing business when there are other issues involved in the contract. An addendum to this contract was issued two days prior to closing. It was an administrative oversight not to note it until this time.

It was noted and we felt at that time it would not affect any of the people capable of bidding on that contract. They were all informed to adjust their tenders in time for closing. It equalized the playing field for all northern businesses. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

I understand there were two parts to this project. Can the Minister indicate whether either part of the tender was awarded to a firm which would not have qualified under the local preference provisions originally outlined in the September 11 documents?

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Supplementary To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

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Further Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Will the Minister confirm that the successful bidder on part "a" of the tender, a firm which would not have qualified for local preference under the Business Incentive Policy, also submitted a part "a" bid that was over $245,000, or 38 per cent more than the next highest bid.

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Supplementary To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There was one bidder that responded to the tender documents and the specifications. That bidder was United Carpet/United Furniture from Hay River. It was the only bidder that met the specifications, so it was the only bid that was acceptable to us. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Question 157-12(3): Reason For Not Applying Discount Under Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is also for the Minister of Public Works . Like my colleague from Yellowknife Frame Lake, I am concerned about the procedures used by the department to award the contracts for the acquisition of furniture for the new Legislative Assembly building. I would like to focus on how the decision was made to waive the five per cent local content adjustment for this tender only. Can the Minister indicate whether this decision to waive the local preference provisions of the Business Incentive Policy was a Cabinet decision, or something made up within the Minister's department?

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Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The authority to waive the five per cent preference on these tenders is the Senior Management Preference Committee, established to oversee the implementation of this policy. The committee is chaired by the deputy minister of Government Services and Public Works and it has deputy minister level representation for the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, Finance, Transportation and Economic Development and Tourism. The reason for waiving the five per cent local preference was so all northern businesses that were qualified to bid could bid on this contract on equal footing. The five percent policy is not meant to give any company an advantage over another company. Thank you.

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Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since this is a departure from government policy -- the B.I.P. is laid out very clearly -- I would like to ask the Minister, in waiving this local preference provision, what consultation took place with his colleagues prior to announcing this decision?

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Supplementary To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. None.

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Further Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 239

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

It must have come as a big surprise to some of his colleagues then to go in the face of government policy. On

Monday, the Minister appeared before the Committee of the Whole to present the Legislative Assembly's capital budget. At that time it was indicated that in expectation of the Management and Services Board, the board would remain at arm's length, and I quote, "the tendering process followed would be the normal government tendering process". Recognizing that the Management and Services Board anticipated that the normal government tendering process was to be followed, is it the department's position that waiving the five per cent local preference provision is a part of this normal process?

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Supplementary To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is part of the normal process. It has been waived before on a bridge where all the steel has come from the south. One of the principles in establishing the Business Incentive Policy is that businesses can set up business in the north and stock items that are available to the general public. When items are not stocked, such as a large furniture order like this or bridge steel, then the five per cent preference should be waived. Close to 90 per cent of it is going to come from the south.

There is a spirit and intent clause in the policy that gives the committee the ability to waive that five per cent policy. That is in order to close loopholes in the policy and to ensure that all bidders are playing on an equal playing field. The Business Incentive Policy is not there to give anyone an advantage over anyone else. It is there to equalize things so that all bidders are equal. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Monday you also indicated, during your presentation to this Assembly, that at this point in time the Management and Services Board has not been officially notified as to the results of that particular tendering process. Can the Minister tell the House what the normal procedure is for informing client departments, such as the M.S.B., when extraordinary or unusual procedures are followed in awarding contract tenders?

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Supplementary To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If an extraordinary or a different from normal policy was used, we would inform the client departments right away. In this case, it does follow the policy; it is normal. The spirit of intent clause is in there and it was applied. The committee has the ability to visit every tender that we put out as a government and to ensure that all tenders are put out on an equal playing field so that all people are treated equal. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Question 158-12(3): Authority Responsible For Decision To Waive Local Preference Provisions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Public Works . I understand that the tender documents for this furniture required for the new Legislative Assembly specified that only desk tops manufactured under the REFF brand should be purchased. There is only one supplier of this product in the Northwest Territories. Can the Minister indicate whether, by specifying only the REFF products, he allowed one supply firm to exert any unfair advantage over other bidders?

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Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In most tenders when you are tendering supply of materials or furniture, you have to specify a standard. It is a quality standard. REFF was referred to in the tender, but it did not give the REFF representation any special consideration. There were other manufacturers available, four that I know of personally, and there are more than that which make the same quality furniture that is acceptable on this tender. Those people who chose not to bid the same quality had their bid rejected.

If I put out a tender for apples and they bid oranges, their bid will be rejected because it is as different as day and night. It is as simple as that. If you do not respond to tenders properly, your tender will not be accepted. Everybody had an equal playing field on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Is the Minister aware that Westinghouse, which purchased several furniture operations including REFF in 1989, has now announced its intent to sell some of its core assets? Included in the sale is the Knoll Group, to which REFF has generally been linked. This has resulted in dealer and customer concerns about the future of distribution and supply consistency. Did the Minister or his officials carry out an analysis of whether consistent replacement, repair and upgrading services will be available for these products after they are installed?

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Supplementary To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 240

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Prior to putting out the furniture tender for the Legislative Assembly, the furniture design process took over 20 months of research and development. Some of the criteria established for the standards to select the furniture were the quality and durability of the construction and the ease of installation; simple basic design; freedom from current fads or details; an off the shelf system for inventory reasons; furniture additions easy to match

to the existing furniture; wood product to compliment the building design element; and, it was supposed to be in the medium price range. A number of furniture systems were examined and considered to be appropriate quality. The technical standard which was established meets the above criteria.

The REFF product was chosen because of the availability to replace damaged furniture. They carry it in stock and you just have to order it. That stock is supposed to be there in the future. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

John Todd

Keewatin Central

We have all been talking about restraint for this last year. If there is only one outfit which is able to provide this furniture, have we not in the tender call set the standards too high, given the current time of restraint?

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Supplementary To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not believe we have set the standards too high. It is in the medium price range. The furniture is supposed to last 50 years and the building is supposed to last 100 years. I believe we have got the best value for our dollar, and there is more than one supplier that supplies that quality of furniture in that price range. I believe that it was a level playing field, everything was equal for all bidders. Those who chose to bid a lesser quality knew the risk of doing that and the bid was rejected. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Final supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Given the Minister's answers, would the Minister indicate whether an appropriate opportunity was provided to other suppliers bidding on this contract to demonstrate or showcase products other than REFF to determine whether they could meet the required specifications?

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Supplementary To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, they did. Prior to the tenders, most of the bidders were notified about standards and quality. They all sent in samples after the tenders closed. I would be quite happy to show the Members the samples. There is quite a difference in the samples and in the quality. I still think that we got the best furniture for the price. It is in the medium price range. Everything was done equally so that all people had an equal opportunity to bid. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Question 159-12(3): Unfair Advantage In Specifying Brand Name

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to follow-up on what Mr. Lewis and Mr. Todd are saying, the five per cent preference being waived is to give other people in the communities outside Yellowknife an equal opportunity. A situation arose in my community this spring in which bids were submitted with regard to the construction of a Housing Corporation building and the Highways building. One of the things which happened is that the local band also submitted a bid which was lower than the highest bidder.

However, because the highest bidder was under the Business Incentive Policy, it got the five per cent advantage over the band council. Even though the band council was the lowest bidder it lost out. I would like to ask the Minister why, in this case, he did not waive the five per cent preference in order to give equal opportunity to every business in the communities?

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Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recall that tender. Five per cent local preference was applied to that tender in both cases. I have shown you the sheet, Mr. Gargan . The portion that the band did not get the five per cent local preference on, was the material they bought outside the community. The other bidder, under the Business Incentive Policy registration, is a supplier of material so it stocks the material in its inventory for the general public to buy. That is one of the reasons why we have that local preference and this is the reason they got the local preference on this portion of the tender.

Consequently, when you applied the Business Incentive Policy, the contract was awarded to the lowest bidder. Thank you.

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Return To Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Supplementary To Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, there were two contacts which were awarded at that time. The Minister explained to me that the band council did not get the contract because it was not registered under the Business Incentive Policy. The Minister will recall that I asked questions with regard to this at that time because those are permanent people. Do they need to register? At the time the Minister said, "yes." This is why I asked the question in the first place. Should permanent residents be required to register under the Business Incentive Policy? I would like to ask the Minister whether it was based on the policy that the band council lost out?

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Supplementary To Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 241

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once the Business Incentive Policy was applied to that tender it was

awarded to the lowest bidder and it was not the band. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Question 160-12(3): Reason For Not Waiving Five Per Cent Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources . Mr. Speaker, I received a copy of a letter with respect to the aircraft maintenance facility in Fort Smith, signed by the Minister of Renewable Resources . He indicated that the Department of Renewable Resources will be undertaking a comprehensive review of its Fire Management Program. Therefore, the aircraft maintenance facility project will not proceed until the review of the fire program is completed. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the purpose of undertaking a comprehensive review of the department's Fire Management Program?

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Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government has asked me to find out how we can best utilize the resources that are assigned for fire suppression and forest management with respect to forest fires in the Northwest Territories. It has asked me how we, as a government, can maximize the number of northern contractors in fire operation, and maximize the employment which could be derived from the fire operation. It asked me to work with my department to see how we could achieve this. This is the reason why we have been asked to review our program, for Cabinet to make policies. Thank you.

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Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister how it relates to the operation of fire suppression and fire management to do a review to place this aircraft maintenance facility on hold? What does he feel is the relationship? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I believe something is being developed in Fort Smith and all the groups are working together. We are pursuing a possible location for aircraft maintenance and I am told that the community is no longer able to come up with a united view, on the facility. Cabinet has asked me, until the community is able to work together on this issue, to look into how we could approach aircraft maintenance in the Northwest Territories for fire operations. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 242

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe the idea of the community not being able to be united on coming up with a view with respect to the aircraft maintenance facility is correct. The Minister indicated in his reply that until the community can come up with a united view, they have placed this aircraft maintenance on hold. Is the Department of Renewable Resources reneging on their location for this aircraft maintenance facility? It appears that the Minister indicated that in his reply.

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Supplementary To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we will still pursue aircraft maintenance for the fire operations in the Northwest Territories. At this point, it has to do with reviewing the types of aircraft which we will be maintaining in the maintenance facilities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

I recognize that this is my last supplementary. The Minister indicated that they are still planning for the aircraft maintenance facility. I want a specific yes, or no answer. Is the Minister indicating to me that it is the government's intention to place an aircraft maintenance facility in Fort Smith, or is placing an aircraft maintenance facility in Fort Smith no longer the current commitment of this government?

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Supplementary To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, we are still committed at this time to having a facility in Fort Smith.

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Public Works has explained to us in great detail why the contract for supplying furniture for the Legislative Assembly went to a firm in Hay River on the other side of the lake. He has explained the need to have a level playing field. I am going to test his ingenuity to explain why this contract was awarded in this way.

In September, there was a tender for a tanker. This bituminous oil tanker had three replies to the tender call: Wilmag Equipment from Edmonton, for $67,459; Yellowknife Motors, for $68,808; and Northern Metallic, Hay River, for $70,800. The award was given to the Hay River company even though it was the highest bid. This was done ingeniously, Mr. Speaker. Yellowknife Motors was given a 15 per cent B.I.P. adjustment. The Edmonton firm got zero. The Hay River company, however, got a 20 per cent adjustment. It got the 15 per cent plus the extra five.

We find that the attempt to create this level playing field with adjusted figures does not really work. This five per cent was applied to the Hay River case even though the Yellowknife bid, from a person in my constituency, was denied that five per cent B.I.P. adjustment that was given to the people of Hay River. Please explain that.

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Further Return To Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Question 161-12(3): Comprehensive Review Of Fire Management Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

That was more in the way of a statement. Could you pose a definitive question to the Minister? Mr. Lewis .

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Question 162-12(3): Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

In the case I have just quoted, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, why was the B.I.P. adjustment of the extra five per cent given to the Hay River contractor and not to the Yellowknife contractor?

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Question 162-12(3): Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Question 162-12(3): Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There must be a good reason, but I am not aware of the issue right now. I will take the question as notice and get back to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 162-12(3): Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also have a question for the Minister of Public Works . The Minister by now knows of my concern about his decision to waive certain sections of the Business Incentive Policy for the tender of furniture requirements for the new Legislative Assembly building. Mr. Lewis has just pointed out another instance in which this policy does not seem to be applied in a consistent manner. If the Minister can waive this five per cent for the policy on the Legislative Assembly, what is to stop him from waiving the B.I.P. on future tenders; not just in Yellowknife, but in any community in the Northwest Territories?

The Minister stated earlier that his department is following the spirit and intent of guidelines but these guidelines seem to be rather slippery. Can the Minister indicate whether a formal set of guidelines has been developed to indicate the circumstances under which the Business Incentive Policy or sections of it are to be waived?

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Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is a set of guidelines, for this committee of senior deputy ministers to follow. It gives direction for applying the spirit and intent. There is nothing stopping this department from waiving the five per cent local preference in future, if it is in the interest of the spirit and intent of the Business Incentive Policy. I would like to make it clear to all Members of this Assembly that there was only one responsive bidder to part "a" of this tender package. The rest were not responsive because they did not meet the quality of the package, so their bids were not acceptable. Consequently, only one person qualified for the tender. Thank you.

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Return To Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I do not recall my question asking about whether there was a responsive tender, because the policy was cancelled in advance of the tenders being submitted. So that was not part of my question. Will the Minister consider developing a set of formal guidelines for whether and when sections of the Business Incentive Policy may be waived, which could be tabled in this House?

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Supplementary To Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With pleasure I will do that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Question 163-12(3): Guidelines Waiving Sections Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Government Leader in her current capacity as Health Minister . She commented earlier that December 1 is designated as World A.I.D.S. day. In the Minister's statement that day, she provided a list of some of the basic information about A.I.D.S. and it has been included in previous years' public education programs. Where is this government going with future educational efforts with respect to A.I.D.S.? There seems to be a disconcerting lack of direction within the Department of Health with regard to the planning and coordinating of A.I.D.S. awareness.

The Standing Committee on Finance noted that there were not even any objectives in the 1992-93 Main Estimates which dealt specifically with A.I.D.S. prevention. Can the acting Minister indicate to the House where this government is actively pursuing specific programs aimed at A.I.D.S. awareness, education and prevention?

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Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 243

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, with regard to health issues; education and knowledge being delivered to communities and regions -- whether it is an issue of the program on A.I.D.S. or many of the other issues surrounding S.T.D.s and new issues that people are dealing with -- the Department of Health and the government in the very first years embarked on a door to door survey for retrieving and giving information. We combatted the lack of will for receiving the information, but the big problem is that as the educational process goes on, there is still the lack of awareness that "it

could not happen to me. This is something that happens to someone else."

We still have the problem of trying to create an audience receptive to whatever we do. As a result, after that program and after numerous meetings with the health boards, it was proposed that many people in the regions felt that they had a different clientele and wanted to deliver an effective program in their area. For example, there was the language issue and the issue of what was acceptable to people and the best way for them to receive information.

As a result, many of the resources that were available in the Department of Health were earmarked to go to the different regional boards and into the different regional programs so that the community of interest could develop a program that would be appropriate to that community, whether it was with language, radio programming or a newspaper or information booklet.

Each nursing station has a high degree of pro-active programs to bring into the community clinics. When I had that responsibility, we did travel to the communities and we were getting more of a response from men to come into the health centres. We felt there could not be an overall program for everybody in the Northwest Territories.

So, how is it best handled? One suggestion was to find something appropriate at the regional levels where people could identify what level of knowledge people were at and what the specific problems in the communities were. A conscious effort was taken to try to provide the resources at the regional health board level so that the exercise could take place. If a community or region came forth with an extra program, then we would entertain it as the Department of Health, in terms of giving the financial resources or going to someone else to try to help.

The whole idea was to try to get the regional bodies to deal with that because what is appropriate for Deh Cho, in delivering an awareness program, is entirely different from the Sahtu or Baffin for example.

The whole new idea of people coming forward when they become H.I.V. positive, and going to the communities themselves to talk to the people was more important than the A.I.D.S. spots we have for general promotion. These people could provide more to the communities and regions when they make that presentation themselves. We have been funding and giving support to these types of initiatives because we are told that they are more effective than the total global program. Thank you.

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Return To Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While I can appreciate the need for some flexibility and the need to approach this in terms of regional initiatives, somebody has to have the overall responsibility of determining the amount of money that is required, and the overall coordination, etc. The fact of the matter is, A.I.D.S. kills. Somebody has to take the responsibility for putting adequate resources into educational programs. My question is, does the department have, given the flexibility of regional initiatives, an overall strategy with respect to A.I.D.S. awareness?

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Supplementary To Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I know that strategy was begun about four years ago. I will endeavour to see whether that has been consolidated with the input from the boards. There is an overall strategy for the Northwest Territorial global scene, but incorporated in that is a respect to regions. I will get the detailed information for the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Question 164-12(3): Development Of A.i.d.s. Prevention Information

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose my question to the Minister of Renewable Resources . Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Renewable Resources with regard to the aircraft maintenance facility, what was the basis for the Minister's comments indicating that the community was not united on this issue for building such a facility?

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Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the community of Fort Smith was working with the Minister of Economic Development in pursuing a possible joint venture that would allow the community to have a facility. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that the band, the Metis local and the Chamber of Commerce were working together to put together a plan. I was told some time ago that all three groups were not able to put forth a joint venture that was agreed to by all three organizations. Thank you.

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Return To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

I would like to ask the Minister, was this the basis of his department's request for a comprehensive review of the Fire Management Program to delay the building of an aircraft maintenance facility project? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 245

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, this was not the reason why we requested a review of our program. The review of the program was initiated by the interested people of the Northwest Territories. This morning I met with the forestry group, consisting of all areas of the western Arctic. They have been asking the department to see if we could improve our ability to employ or utilize our resources to their full extent in hiring local people. They also wanted us to see

if we could improve our ability to contract northern businesses. The Cabinet asked me to see if we could improve in those areas. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what that has to do with building the aircraft maintenance facility? The aircraft maintenance facility was to try to prevent the dollars from flowing south every year and sending our CL-215s down south to be maintained. That is where you would get all your employment. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister how long he anticipates his department will take to complete its comprehensive review of the Fire Management Program? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you. Until May of 1993.

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Further Return To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, if the comprehensive review is not going to be completed until May of 1993, then that is a very feeble excuse. I find that it is just a matter of trying to slow down the process of building a needed facility in the north and I am not very happy with that decision. I want the Minister to be aware of it. He indicated that the completion of that comprehensive review will be in May of 1993, and these proposals are now being formulated to consider construction of the maintenance facility. Is he indicating that this government will not consider any proposals until at least May of 1993, for just the planning of the construction of the aircraft maintenance facility? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice.

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Supplementary To Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Question 165-12(3): Reason For Stating Community Not United On Aircraft Maintenance Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question 166-12(3): Water And Sewer Subsidy In Tax-based Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . As I noted in my Member's statement there are inequities in the manner in which this department subsidizes water and sewer services throughout the Northwest Territories. At present, subsidies are provided only to users in the general taxation area. As I stated earlier, Mr. Speaker, the current policy is causing a tremendous financial strain on small tax-based municipalities such as Fort Simpson. Would the Minister tell me if his department has developed a policy to provide water and sewer subsidies for users in tax-based municipalities? Thank you.

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Question 166-12(3): Water And Sewer Subsidy In Tax-based Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question 166-12(3): Water And Sewer Subsidy In Tax-based Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I will take the question as notice.

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Question 166-12(3): Water And Sewer Subsidy In Tax-based Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 167-12(3): Furniture Contract For Legislative Assembly Building

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Public Works has taken the question about the tanker as notice, so I will revert back to the furniture, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister indicate whether the successful business on part "a" of the tender for supplying furniture for the Legislative Assembly will be using southern contractors to install and deliver furniture to the new Legislative Assembly building?

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Question 167-12(3): Furniture Contract For Legislative Assembly Building

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 167-12(3): Furniture Contract For Legislative Assembly Building

Question 167-12(3): Furniture Contract For Legislative Assembly Building

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 246

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I cannot confirm that.

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Question 167-12(3): Furniture Contrac