Debates of Oct. 2nd, 2008

This is page numbers 1487 to 1518 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was million .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 81-16(2) Fiscal Update

Minister’s Statement 82-16(2) Literacy In The North

Health Care Core Service Reductions

Net Metering Services

Proposed Revenue Options

Initiatives To Address The High Cost Of Living

Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Proposed Revenue Options Versus Expenditure Reductions

Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Proposed Revenue Options

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Question 405-16(2) Proposed Resource Taxation Option

Question 406-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Question 407-16(2) Fuel Price Regulations

Question 408-16(2) Cost Of New Tax Collection Efforts

Question 409-16(2) Initiatives To Address The High Cost Of Living

Bill 10

An Act To Amend The Pharmacy Act Bill 13

An Act To Amend The Legal Profession Act

Tabling of Documents

Bill 19 Donation Of Food Act

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tabled Document 75-16(2): Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, 2008–2009

Concurrence Of Td 75-16(2) Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, 2008–2009 (Committee Motion Carried)

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

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Prayer.

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the Day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister’s Statement 81-16(2) Fiscal Update

Ministers’ Statements

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide an update on the fiscal planning being undertaken by the Government of the Northwest Territories for the coming fiscal year.

The government’s planning for the 2009–10 fiscal year began almost as soon as the review of the 2008 budget was completed. The 2008 budget outlined a fiscal strategy that included making significant reductions to our operating expenditure base — $135 million over two years, with a portion reallocated to investment priorities over the next four years. Operating expenditure forced growth would be capped at 3 per cent per year, excluding compensation and benefits, and we would increase revenues by $10 million starting in 2009–10.

The fiscal plan included in the budget identified spending reductions of $33 million in 2008–09 and a further $28 million in 2009–10. Further reductions would be identified through a variety of review processes. These measures were necessary to ensure the government avoids incurring operating deficits and instead achieves the operating surpluses we need to finance our infrastructure investments.

Nonetheless, to be effective no strategy can be cast in stone. A strategy is simply a plan to achieve a goal. We have reduced our target for expenditure reductions and increased our target for new revenues. This will bring our fiscal target to $111 million in reductions and incremental revenues.

In this case our fiscal goal is clear: to put the Government of the Northwest Territories on a sound, long term fiscal footing that allows us to achieve our vision and goals largely within our own fiscal resources. We cannot continue to spend every dollar we bring in to do the same things we have always done but pay more every year to do it.

We want to be able to make the investments needed in programs and infrastructure that will make a difference in the lives of NWT residents. We want to be able to approach the federal government from a position of fiscal strength rather than need, and we want to be able to assure the residents and businesses of the Northwest Territories of our commitment to fiscal stability.

These objectives become increasingly important in light of the very uncertain economic conditions we are currently experiencing, both in financial markets and in the energy sector. The NWT economy is strong. However, we must ensure that we are able to respond to changes that may result from international and national events.

Mr. Speaker, budget making is about making choices, and we want to ensure that the choices included in the government’s fiscal plans reflect the best advice, input and suggestions available. GNWT departments are currently preparing business plans for the coming fiscal year that will outline how our proposed actions and investments will further the achievement of the vision set out by this Assembly. We will be reviewing those plans with standing committees in November with a view to preparing the 2009–10 budget. We look forward to receiving input from Members on these plans.

Over the summer my Cabinet colleagues and I reviewed the fiscal strategy adopted last year, and we believe that some adjustments are needed to ensure that we stay on course. We have heard the concerns raised by MLAs and the public about the impacts of reductions on government services, on staff and on communities. We have heard the concerns from standing committees that we need to explore revenue options. We remain committed to the expenditure reductions already identified for 2009–10 and to finding ways to make government spending more efficient and effective, but we are also looking for alternatives to further large scale spending cuts.

This means looking at our revenues. We have set a target for raising a further $30 million starting in 2010–11, bringing our total revenue targets to $40 million.

Last month I began a consultation process to seek the views of NWT residents on how we can increase our revenues. We have laid out a wide range of revenue options for people to consider, and although it is not our intention to implement all of these options, we need to ensure we consider those that might best meet our needs.

Last week I attended a two day round table discussion at which representatives from all segments of the Northwest Territories provided their thoughts on how the government could achieve its fiscal objectives. The consultation is not meant to focus solely on tax increases. We want people to consider other ways to increase our revenue capacity; for example, through economic and population growth.

I would like to stress, however, that there are no easy ways to raise revenues from taxes. Each option will have some negative implications. We need to weigh those possible effects against those of further expenditure reductions. If it is not possible to identify some revenue measures that we can get general agreement on from residents and business, it will be necessary to revisit the expenditure side of our budget.

I encourage anyone with an interest in this issue to submit your comments to the Department of Finance by October 15. The results of the consultation will be shared with the public and discussed with the standing committee in November. Decisions on revenue measures will be announced in the budget in February.

Mr. Speaker, the 2008 budget spoke to the need to change the way we invest in infrastructure in order to get the maximum value for our capital dollars. This year will mark a significant change in the way we do our capital budgeting. The 2009–10 Capital Estimates will be presented for review by the Legislative Assembly during this session rather than in February with the Main Estimates. This earlier approach to capital planning will ideally allow contractors to fit our projects into their schedules, encouraging more bids and greater competition for GNWT projects. In addition, we continue to examine other ways to improve the GNWT’s capital planning process.

Before I conclude, Mr. Speaker, I would like to share some excellent advice I received during last week’s revenue round table regarding what a government should strive for in its fiscal planning.

First, the government must offer a vision for the future. This vision provides governments with guideposts that keep us on the road to long term success while we struggle with problems that may

sidetrack us temporarily. Yesterday the Premier reminded us of the vision set by this Assembly: strong individuals, families and communities sharing the benefits and responsibilities of a unified, environmentally sustainable and prosperous Northwest Territories.

Second, government must strive to provide value for money. Our goal should be to provide the best quality government services at the lowest cost to our citizens.

Third, the government should save revenues collected from taxation of non-renewable resources so that future generations may enjoy the same benefits that we do.

Fourth, government should avoid passing on to future generations the cost of providing goods and services enjoyed by the current generation. This means not running deficits.

This is timely advice. We must keep the long term horizon in view while we deal with the short term challenges. We have had a tendency in the GNWT to do fiscal planning within a fairly short horizon of three to four years. We should not limit ourselves to looking ahead only a few years. We need to take a longer term view to picture what our territory could look like and what steps we might need to get there. We need to think about where we want to be 15 to 20 years from now and what this means for the investments we make today. We must also ensure we don’t mortgage our children’s future in doing so.

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Minister’s Statement 81-16(2) Fiscal Update

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister’s Statement 82-16(2) Literacy In The North

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. This week is NWT Literacy Week. Earlier this week we celebrated some special northern contributions to literacy.

Mardy Voudrach of Tuktoyaktuk was awarded the 2008 Council of the Federation Literacy Award for the Northwest Territories. Ms. Voudrach was honoured for her success in learning and improving her education while dealing with a disability.

Hilary Gemmell of Fort Smith won the Ministerial Literacy Award for Educators for her service to the North through her work at Aurora College and abroad. She has worked very hard for adult literacy in the Northwest Territories. Even in retirement she continues to volunteer, teaching learners with disabilities.

The Hay River Literacy Society also was honoured with the Ministerial Literacy Award for Organizations. This group of volunteers hosts education events for all ages and sponsors literacy

programs in Hay River. They help make educational support available to all learners.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment’s new Northwest Territories Literacy Strategy will soon be in place. During this time of rapid economic expansion education is of paramount importance, because many northern residents lack the basic skills to fill the jobs that are being created or to meet the entrance requirements for job specific training programs. Effective learning initiatives are crucial for the evolution of an equitable northern society where all residents are able to access new opportunities and benefit from the prosperity of our region.

In the 21st century the black and white concept of

people either being literate or illiterate is somewhat outdated. In today’s society literacy is a continuum of skill development, which includes reading a variety of printed materials, writing, numeracy, use of technology, oral communications, critical thinking and problem solving.

The NWT Literacy Strategy addresses the needs of northern residents of all ages in the various roles they play at home, in the workplace and also in the community.

The strategy sets out four major goals that will contribute toward NWT literacy development over the next ten years:

increasing literacy levels of Northwest

Territories residents of all ages;

supporting literacy in the official languages of the Northwest Territories;

promoting

literacy partnerships;

building community capacity to meet local

literacy needs.

Included in the Literacy Strategy are objectives and actions that address the learning needs of young children and families, out of school youth, working age adults and seniors.

Now that the Literacy Strategy has been completed, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is proceeding with implementation. An accountability framework is being developed so that we will be able to measure progress on the Literacy Strategy goals, objectives and actions. A multi-stakeholder Literacy Strategy advisory committee has been established to guide implementation of the Literacy Strategy. As well, a Literacy Strategy communications plan will be developed.

The new NWT Literacy Strategy is a key component in achieving the vision of strong individuals, families and communities sharing the benefits of a prosperous Northwest Territories that this Legislative Assembly laid out in Northerners Working Together. Northern residents without

adequate education skills experience challenges participating in the labour market, earning sufficient income, managing their own health and contributing to community development.

Through the new Literacy Strategy the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will address these learning challenges and work towards the fulfillment of our overall Government of the Northwest Territories vision of healthy, self-reliant people and also prosperous communities.

In addition to NWT Literacy Week, October is also the home of Canadian Library Month, a month dedicated to raising awareness of the role that libraries play in our lives. A library can be a haven for learners of all ages and literacy levels. Libraries can be a way to experience other worlds, cultures and opinions.

Our community libraries play a sometimes quiet but always important role in supporting literacy. In the Northwest Territories we are proud to offer excellent library services. The Government of the Northwest Territories supports Canadian Library Month by purchasing promotional materials for all of our public libraries. We would like to encourage everyone to recognize the role that public libraries play in their communities. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 82-16(2) Literacy In The North

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Health Care Core Service Reductions

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to read out a fax that’s distributed to all the communities in the Mackenzie Delta. It comes from Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services.

“Re: Reduction of Core Services — Susie Husky Health Centre, Aklavik, NT.

“The Northwest Territories is experiencing a nursing shortage, along with the rest of Canada. This means that at times the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority has to restrict the services we normally provide to our clients. Your community will be affected as follows.

“Essential services only:

“From Friday, August 29, 2008, at 0830 a.m. to Friday, August 29, 2008, at 1700 p.m. there will be no scheduled appointments or clinics.

“A nurse will be available for urgent cases and emergencies at (867) 978-2516, or you may contact the Inuvik Hospital emergency department at (867) 777-8161.

“Tele-Care NWT is a family health and support line which will help you decide what to do, such as how to: take care of yourself (example: health information); call your local nurse or social worker; every day — 24 hours a day — 7 days a week, call 1-888-255-1010.

“We regret the inconvenience and want to assure the community that the BDHSSA has been exploring every possible option to resolve this problem.”

Mr. Speaker, we get this letter distributed to our communities almost every month, but health care is an essential service. We’re still having problems providing services to the communities in the Northwest Territories, especially in the region of the Beaufort-Delta.

This has been going on for quite some time. I think that as a government we have to find unique ways to deal with these challenges that we face. We have to find ways to get around the collective bargaining agreement, to allow for nurses who want to go into the communities, who have admitted they’re willing to go into the communities, but because of union issues we’re having challenges.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister of Health and Social Services in regard to this urgent matter.

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Health Care Core Service Reductions

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Net Metering Services

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are myriad ways we can build our local economies, provide opportunities for jobs in our communities and reduce environmental impacts of energy generation. One effective way is to provide for net metering. This is the chance for residents to generate their own power from renewable energy and to be connected to the power grid so they can contribute power when they have excess and draw power when they need it.

This issue has been before the Public Utilities Board for several years, and the Power Corporation has been asked to provide the option for this service. I believe some connection standards are being set. Yet today, when a Weledeh constituent stands prepared to fund a residential solar system to be tied to the grid and the Department of Environment and Natural Resources is prepared to support the project through existing incentives, our utilities are unprepared to respond. There is currently a policy void, a lack of net metering capability and no method of purchasing excess power.

Many northern residents like my constituent wish to be more self-sufficient and environmentally

responsible through generation of renewable energy and contributing to the power grid. Last year 17 per cent of Yellowknife’s power requirements were met through diesel generation, an amount probably greater than any of our diesel powered communities. No wonder NTPC is back at the trough, as my old friend Johnny Dennison used to say, seeking to raise electricity rates. Diesel is expensive and environmentally costly as well. Depending on it leaves us vulnerable to the vagaries of global markets.

Mr. Speaker, there are literally millions of residential solar systems around the world, including Canada, where net metering is simply business as usual. In fact, ATCO, the parent company of one of our utility firms, Northland, provides net metering service in some of their regions of operation. This is not a new science. This is off the shelf technology that residents have been requesting for many years.

Building capacity to meet increasing power demands in communities is expensive, yet here is an opportunity where residents themselves are willing to cover the upfront capital costs for long term reductions in overall costs. It’s a win-win situation.

Mr. Speaker, several specifics have been identified here. Northerners have waited patiently on this issue without results. Given today’s economic and environmental circumstances, this is not acceptable. Rather than slogging through the typical experience where utilities set up hurdles to net metering, like expensive systems, let’s get everyone to the table, define a reason….

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Net Metering Services

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Bromley , the time for your Member’s statement has expired. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday there were a number of Members’ statements and oral questions on revenue options identified by the Minister of Finance in September. Before I get into details, I want to acknowledge, first, that I know that the list of potential taxes proposed by Cabinet is not official. They are simply discussion points to help encourage us, Cabinet and the public to identify real and acceptable options to revenue generation.

What I don’t understand is why the Finance Minister would put forward options that clearly have negative ramifications, options that radically increase the cost of living for all Northerners, thus resulting in a mass exodus, or a potential mass exodus, from the Northwest Territories. These are options that most people, including many of the MLAs on this side of the House, will be unable to

support. Why cause the unnecessary panic and frustration?

A territorial sales tax: it’s clearly a horrible idea. A hotel room tax: this doesn’t make any sense. Most of the hotel rooms in the NWT are being used by people from the NWT, and we would simply be recirculating money as opposed to bringing in new money. An airport departure tax: there is some merit to this, considering the number of non-resident workers who fly in and out of the NWT. Unfortunately, it also penalizes those of us who choose to live here. It is already expensive enough to travel out of the NWT. We simply can’t make it tougher.

The solutions to our financial difficulties should not focus on increasing taxes on our residents. Rather, they should be focused on finding ways to increase our population and ensure that we as Northerners get benefits from all the resource extraction that is current in the NWT. Has the Minister of Finance met with the diamond mines to ensure that they are meeting their obligations under the socio-economic agreements with respect to northern employment? Let’s reduce the number of fly in/fly out workers.

Has Cabinet pursued the completion of legislation that will make it easier for local businesses to recruit international and foreign workers, workers who will move to and live in the Northwest Territories?

What progress has Cabinet made on getting the federal government to increase our northern tax credits? The rate for zone A has not increased in over 20 years. It’s time for an increase that will decrease the cost of living for all Northerners.

A resource tax: I keep hearing that we can’t get this done, that it can’t happen. Why not? It would be in the best interest of the people of the NWT and would bring in needed dollars from our northern resources. I keep hearing references to all the good things the government is doing to reduce the cost of living: $140 million in subsidies to help lower our cost of living. The problem is that these subsidies don’t help reduce the cost of living. Rather, they simply provide northern residents who are struggling with an ability to pay for the basic needs: housing, food and heat….

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Abernethy , your time for Members’ statements has expired.

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

There’s not much left, Mr. Speaker; thank you. Has Cabinet pursued opportunities that actually reduce the cost of living in the NWT? If so, what are their options?

Mr. Speaker, during the last session the Members on this side of the House asked government to

increase revenue in order to avoid cutting programs and laying off employees. Unfortunately, many of the revenue options introduced in September are not acceptable and should not be pursued.

Later today I’ll be asking the appropriate Ministers some specific questions on revenue options for the Government of the Northwest Territories.

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Initiatives To Address The High Cost Of Living

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to use my Member’s statement today to continue to talk about the cost of living here in the Northwest Territories. Yesterday I spoke about how offside the government is with their proposed tax initiatives and how by even discussing increasing the cost of living they are scaring residents and potential residents away.

Last winter I heard from many residents who were having a difficult time paying their home heating fuel bills, and now this winter it is going to be 25 per cent more than last winter. I really am worried that coupled with the proposed 19 per cent rate increase for power, residents are going to be buried by utility bills this winter.

In regard to home heating fuel and gasoline I’m very curious as to what role the government can play in protecting the consumer from what I would view as gouging at the pump and at the fuel truck. When world oil prices fall, residents here in Yellowknife watch enviously as prices of gas at the pump fall by 12 to 15 cents per litre in southern Canada. Here, for some reason, they stay at levels that just do not seem to make sense to me or to residents. Why are residents here subjected to over-inflated prices?

And I do not buy the argument that fuel is stored here and that the supplier paid a certain price for it and now has to sell it at the higher price. If that were true, why is it that when world oil prices rise, the price at the pump rises the next day?

Again, who is protecting the consumer, and is there gouging going on? Watching fuel prices this past year would certainly lead me to believe that gouging is taking place. Why do retailers all sell at the exact same price? Isn’t that called price fixing, Mr. Speaker? We live in a climate where heating our homes is life and death. For starters, the Government of the Northwest Territories should be demanding that the federal government immediately take the 5 per cent GST off of home heating fuel. This would at least provide a little bit of relief for our residents this coming winter.

Mr. Speaker, even though there is a 9.1 cents per litre tax on diesel fuel, there was a period late last

winter when diesel fuel, which is essentially the same as home heating fuel, was less per litre at the pump. Residents would have saved money by filling up their diesel vehicle at Circle K and siphoning it into their home fuel tank, saving them some money. These types of scenarios should never be allowed to exist. Someone should be watching the prices and protecting the consumer.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Initiatives To Address The High Cost Of Living

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal Competition Bureau should be consulted, and I’d like to see an investigation conducted here in the Northwest Territories market communities. Does it really cost 30 cents a litre to transport fuel from Edmonton? The scary thing for residents here in the North Slave region is that we’re building a $170 million bridge that we don’t need with money we don’t have, only to charge tolls and make goods like fuel more expensive for residents here in the North Slave. Mahsi.

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Initiatives To Address The High Cost Of Living

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Members’ Statements

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Every year the Government of the Northwest Territories, through EC&E, helps many students through university. During the course of the four years at university the students, as we all know, have a habit of gathering a lot of belongings. We pay their way to and from school. They come back after they’re done university, and they provide return of service.

However, Mr. Speaker, there is a gap, as we do not assist them in shipping their items back home. Many of them would like to bring their items back home after four years of gathering them. They are put in a position where they have to either sell or ship the items home at their own cost.

I bring this issue forward after hearing the story of a student who’d just completed four years of university and was coming back up North to work. She wanted to bring all her furnishings back home, yet after making some inquiries was told that she couldn’t. They looked into it, and they decided, “Yes, we will assist you,” but by then it was too late. She had sold most of her belongings. A couple of more students may be finished this year. They have similar concerns, and I’ve heard from them.

Mr. Speaker, we bring a lot of new people in from down South to work up North, and we pay for shipping everything they have up here. Then when

they finish here — sometimes it’s not very long — we pay to ship their items back to wherever it is they’re from. The students are Northerners: northern born, northern raised for the most part. They’re going to spend their entire career working in the North because it’s their home, and sometimes I think we send them the wrong message. In our attempt to attract and recruit so many new hires from down South, I think we unintentionally overlook or take our own for granted.

Mr. Speaker, it’s a matter of a slight policy change. If we as an Assembly, or the department itself, have the authority to make that policy change, then I think that is something that should be done without question. If it’s something that they’ve overlooked, I think they should deal with it so we do not have to have students who spend four years at university having to worry about what they’re going to do with everything they’ve gathered over the course of four years.

I’ll have questions for the Minister of EC&E at the appropriate time.

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Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Proposed Revenue Options Versus Expenditure Reductions

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said yesterday, the problem with this government is it has a spending problem, not a revenue problem, and it continues to be obvious more so even today. I only wish there were a program like the Tree of Peace to send the Finance Minister to, to make sure he understands that, but we don’t.

So it’s about time this government realizes that you could lower the cost of living in government and do business better at the same time without raising taxes. We need someone over there on that Cabinet side of this building to understand that we don’t need new taxes.

Again, Mr. Speaker, we need imagination to solve this problem. This problem we face is no different from what I would normally call kitchen table economics. When money is tight in my house, we ask the question: what are we are spending it on? We take a look at the realities we live under, and we say: well, we can’t afford that; we’ll have to work around that. But this government does not take into account its spending choices and would rather consider laying off the public service and raising taxes than looking at itself.

The reality is here. This government has enjoyed the Dijon mustard lifestyle far too long, and it should start shopping at the Co-op, because that is just as good when times are tight.

Let me tell you again: good financial policies will encourage investments that will help grow our tax base in the North. They will encourage businesses to hire more employees. I hope the Finance Minister is listening.

Last week in my riding of Yellowknife Centre, the Shoppers Drug Mart opened up. It has hired 20 more people. That’s bread and butter economics that the Finance Minister should start to pay attention to, because those people will bring in new taxes and that’s additional grant money from the federal government. But, no, that’s too shocking, this new business trend to working with business and fostering this. We’d rather help subsidize, at a $140 million subsidy, than help people get jobs, because the system sometimes pulls them back into social programs instead of getting them up on their own two feet.

Mr. Speaker, where is the zero based program review? It’s been asked for, for about a year now, by this side of the House. It’s obvious that we wouldn’t want to rush into anything. Maybe the Finance Minister just wants to get to know about this good idea before he marries into it. Of course, we wouldn’t want to rush him on this issue. We’d rather tax first, from what seems to be obvious.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent at this time to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Proposed Revenue Options Versus Expenditure Reductions

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, we need a program review. Of course, it’s obvious we can’t review all the government all at the same time, but we could start, as other Members have said here, with two or three departments to see how we could achieve business by doing things better. It’s true that not all programs are bad, but let me tell you, a number are working properly.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I don’t want to see us raise taxes just to bail out health boards to the tune of $217 million in write-offs without going to the taxpayer and saying: we tried our very best. We’re not trying our best. Pay attention, Finance Minister .

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Proposed Revenue Options Versus Expenditure Reductions

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Today I’d like to talk about the slow response by the Department of Transportation regarding issues raised by residents of Fort Resolution for repair and reconstruction of Highway No. 6.

Mr. Speaker, I first raised this issue last February by asking the former Minister of Transportation

questions about repairs and future plans for Highway No. 6. The Minister committed to allocating $1 million of repair work to be carried out this summer. The condition in this

section of highway is worse than when I first raised the issue last winter. We are talking about a serious safety issue here on this highway. I was listening to the Minister’s responses to questions raised by my colleagues from Nahendeh and Mackenzie Delta about their highways. A common denominator I heard in the Minister’s response was that the number one priority for the department was safety.

Mr. Speaker, if the department considers safety a top priority for all NWT highways, then this work on Highway No. 6 must be done quickly. I have driven this highway many times this summer and did not see any improvements being made. We are fortunate not to have lost lives on this

section of the road. The worst

section in this road is approximately 13 kilometres long, from kilometre 70 to 83, where some of the sections of the road are washing away, some other sections are below grade, and there are sections only six metres wide. I believe the standard is eight metres.

This highway is maintained by a local contractor, but the safety and the meeting of minimum standards is the responsibility of the Department of Transportation. With the potential of a mine opening along Highway No. 6, this highway will see increased use, and we don’t want to see any lives lost on this highway.

Later on I will have questions for the Minister of Transportation on this issue.

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Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since most of us on this side picked on the Finance Minister yesterday, I figure that it’s my turn today.

Since the publication and promotion of the revenue options

paper a short while ago, I have heard from

quite a number of people in regard to the proposed options. From their comments two things became quickly evident: the concern for the current high cost of living that they experience and a strong aversion to an increased tax burden on individuals.

I absolutely agree with both of these concerns. I said publicly some time ago that any new revenue must have minimal impact on NWT residents as individuals. My constituents expressed the need to see the Finance Minister consider other possible actions to raise revenue. Targeting the earnings of fly in/fly out workers is high on their list, as is targeting the profits of resource companies. Any revenue grab that increases the cost of living for

our residents is not acceptable to the constituents of Frame Lake.

Mr. Speaker, all MLAs received many, many cost cutting suggestions last year prior to the passing of this previous year’s budget. Implement only some of these suggestions and our revenue needs will be thoroughly reduced. For example, has the government seriously considered reducing or eliminating the printing of annual reports, and if not, why not?

Savings can be achieved by reducing wasteful spending, and it is our front line and middle management people who know where that wasteful spending is happening. The Finance Minister must consider establishing a committee of GNWT employees composed only of front line and middle management staff who represent all departments and agencies, a committee that reports directly to the MLAs and/or the Finance Minister . Let them tell us what they see. Implement their recommendations, and I guarantee that our expenditures will be reduced significantly.

Our employees do care, Mr. Speaker, and they will assist us in reducing our spending if we give them the opportunity. I look forward to a letter from the Minister of Finance advising us of the establishment of our new staff committee.

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Ms. Groenewegen .

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to talk about the tax revenue options paper that was put out by the Minister of Finance — really quite an extraordinary waste of time. We might as well have been asked to go out and ask our constituents if they’d like us to poke them in the eye with a sharp stick.

Given the fact that the cost of living is at a historic, astronomical high level and we’re going into the winter season here, what a catastrophic waste of time to discuss this. If the government really had any ideas about a resource pact, then the time and effort would have been better invested in coming forward with something we could consider in that area.

Let me just read off a few of these here. Personal income tax, payroll tax, corporate income tax, capital tax, fuel tax, tobacco tax, insurance tax, liquor tax, sales tax, hotel tax, carbon tax, property tax, health insurance premiums, highway tolls, airport fee or tax. Mr. Speaker, obviously not a lot of thought went into this list. It was just throwing everything on the table, and now we’ve spent money bringing people in to talk about this.

Really, the only thing I’m concerned about now is that by putting such an untenable list on the table in front of us — perhaps when we have to react and respond in the predictable way that this is not going to fly — this government will then use our reaction, our response, to say, “Well, sorry; we can’t buy into any of these revenue options and any tax options,” which are completely unpalatable. Then we’re going to have to look at further program cuts. I hope that isn’t the sinister plot behind this discussion paper.

Let me state clearly for the record now that we aren’t going to be drawn into any such trap. We recognize that most of what you put on the table is a red herring. We’ve been down the road before on some of these taxes, and the Minister of Finance well knows that there was absolutely no appetite in the public. This is to add insult to injury at a time when we are trying to retain Northerners and recruit Northerners to our territory. Then to put forward even something as ridiculous as some of these suggestions…. Spend your time on something useful. Think what you can do about our resource tax.

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Proposed Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to introduce to the Assembly Elder Samuel George and Elder Jeff Anderson. They are missionaries doing good work in our community. My wife and I have had the pleasure to get to know them while they are here. Elder George is from Utah, I believe, and Elder Anderson is from Idaho, if I am correct. Anyway, they are here to do good work in our community.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to be able to acknowledge and recognize a constituent of mine, Mr. Ron Shaefer. With him is his niece Renee Grandejambe. Welcome to the Assembly.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . If I’ve missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the House. I hope you are enjoying the proceedings.

Item 7, acknowledgements. Item 8, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I am hearing is the Finance Minister conceding on most of these tax initiatives. I am really curious about why he is wasting everyone’s time. It seems quite clear on that side of the House that they don’t even think all of these are going to be taken seriously by them, let alone the public. So why didn’t the Finance Minister put the test to committee, one by one on these suggestions, and ask if committee would support these or not? Can I get that answer? Thank you.

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There were briefings provided to committee about the potential options on May 27. I quote from Hansard, page 613, a report from the Standing Committee on Government Operations.

“Committee members found that in order to create long-term financial stability for the Northwest Territories, the governments should not only look at reducing costs but also explore options for revenue increases…. The creation of a heritage trust fund…. The committee also encouraged the government to look into alternative means to generate revenue, like taxation of minerals and resources and the introduction of a carbon tax, or changes to the fuel tax administration. The committee hopes that alternatives and new initiatives for revenue generation will be presented during the next business planning cycle.”

Mr. Speaker, we have taken that advice very clearly. I indicated in my Minister’s statement today that we had made adjustments. We are doing the work to come to committee, and we appreciate the feedback from the Members.

I would also suggest to the House that if we just arbitrarily came forward and said we are doing this, that or the other thing, then we would be pilloried for not consulting appropriately and making these decisions without giving the people, or possibly the Members, the freedom to chose from an amount of taxes that are available for consideration.

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

It’s nice to see, for a change, that the other side of the House is listening to our side of the House, but I don’t seem to remember seeing a fuel tax. I remember a sales tax in that list.

Mr. Speaker, I think I heard from the Finance Minister ’s little special speech there, which he had seemingly prepared, that he recited carbon tax and resource tax. Why aren’t you putting your focus into those ones that we suggested as opposed to some

of these red herrings, such as sales tax? You’re really wasting our time, your time and the public’s time. Why didn’t he do that?

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

First it was Dijon mustard; now it’s red herring. I don’t even particularly care for fish.

However, clearly, Mr. Speaker, we have left everything on the table. As we look at concluding the consultation process, we will look at all the options that are there. I laid out yesterday some very significant potential revenue generators in terms of the territorial nominee program for immigration that we believe could bring in as many as 150 new Northerners a year plus their families.

I also suggested and laid out the option to look at fully using the SEAs, socio-economic agreements, which are bilateral agreements with the mines, where we could bring, as the Member for Kam Lake has raised in this House, hundreds of those current fly in/fly out workers who could actually take up residence in the North. We are going to look at the whole range of options.

Once again, I do appreciate the Member’s feedback. I would ask him to bear with us through the consultation process, but clearly their feedback is critical as well. Thank you.

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Speaking on that line, has he heard anyone out there say that they wanted a sales tax? Because if we open that door — whether it’s 1 per cent, 8 per cent, whatever per cent — we’ll never shut it. Has he heard anyone glowingly say that this was a good idea? Where did this crazy idea of a sales tax come from?

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

What I have heard people across the land say is that there is a level of service the government provides that they have come to expect and count on, that we have huge needs out there that we need resources to meet. We are taking the steps on the revenue side, but we’re also looking to control our expenditures. Nobody necessarily likes taxes, but we have to weigh whatever taxes are going to be there against the value that they bring for the common good in terms of the programs and services for the people of the Northwest Territories.

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know what? A lot of people want to know how much this is going to cost when they find out what a waste of time has been conceded by Cabinet. I mean, you could have spent a lot of time…. Just an extra meeting with Regular Members to say that these are the good ideas you should maybe take to the public. We’re not saying that it has to be these ideas, but we’re saying these are the ones that I’m sure they’ll be willing to listen to.

So how much is this little fiasco going to cost the general public to just hear no, no, no? Thank you.

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I don’t agree with the label of “fiasco.” The Member himself has asked in this House, if I can quote from page 1194 of Hansard, June 12, where he asked the Finance Minister of the day:

“What is he doing on revenue options? What is he doing to put new revenue options on the table for the Territories to go forward so we can make up for these ups and downs in our revenue stream?”

He further goes on to say:

“The issue really is: when are we going to deal with this issue? The fact is that there are no revenue generating initiatives in this. We’ve heard: We’re going to think about it. We plan to do it. We hope we’ll get $10 million in our revenue stream. But people are asking when. From my point of view, I need to know when we’re going to do this. Mr. Speaker, will the Finance Minister tell us today when we will see this discussion paper?”

Mr. Speaker, we have worked hard and long over the course of the summer to comply with the very specific request from the Member for Yellowknife Centre . I would hope that he would be a tad more appreciative of the work that has gone in, approach it in a constructive manner and offer us his best advice during this process.

Applause.

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Question 397-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m having trouble hearing you over all the raucous noise in the chamber.

In my statement I spoke about suggested ways to reduce expenditures and save money, and I asked a specific question in my statement. I’d like to address the same question to the Finance Minister . Has this government given serious consideration to the implementation of electronic distribution of annual reports for our departments, our boards and our agencies, and if not, why not? Thank you.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That suggestion has been made. We believe, as the Member does, that there is potential there. That matter is currently under review to see how we could do that to meet all our obligations and to put a cost on not doing it as opposed to

doing it electronically to make sure that we have the proper records and such. That is a suggestion that we think is a good one.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I’m glad to see that occasionally the other side does listen to us, because I believe I made that suggestion some time ago. That came from a constituent, by the way, so I think that is evidence of what I was saying in my statement, that there are a lot of suggestions out there which we would be well advised to listen to.

I’d like to ask the Minister when we can expect to see a conclusion of the review that he says is ongoing.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

As I indicated in the House yesterday, the process is going to carry on until the middle of October. We’ve asked people to provide feedback. We’re pulling together the work from the two day round table, at which point we will print up and release the document with the results and recommendations from the round table. At the same time, we’ll be considering all the feedback. As I indicated, then we will start building our suggestions and recommendations into the business planning process that we’ll be starting in mid-November.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I thought I heard the Minister talking about the round table recommendations, and I hope he means that the review of printing reports is part of that consideration of the stuff that came from the round table.

I’d like to ask the Minister, as well, if he can tell me whether or not we have any policies in place that guide the use of print advertising by our department.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Yes, there are.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for that very brief answer, Mr. Minister. I wonder if you could tell me what those policies are.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Yes, I can, but the rules of the House preclude me giving them in any great detail. I will commit to the Member that we will forward to the Member the luminous policies that are there in regard to print advertising.

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Question 398-16(2) Proposed Revenue Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my Member’s statement on the net metering issue. It involves, I believe, the Minister of ENR for renewable energy, the Minister of NTPC, Mr. Roland , and the Minister of PUB , Mr. McLeod.

So I don’t have a druthers on who this is directed at, but I’d like to begin by finding out exactly what regulatory process is required to set up net metering for Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The Hon. Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of net metering is one that has been looked at. In fact, a recommendation was made by the PUB through, I believe, the 2006–2008 General Rate Application. At that point there was direction given to look at what opportunities there were and come back with a proposal on that. It affects a number of areas. For example, when an individual or a company is generating power for themselves and they want to hook up to the system, there’s the interconnection guidelines that have to fall into place. They’ve been working on those.

The Power Corporation itself is open to having discussions with individuals who would like to hook up to the system. There are a number of factors that do fall into this, though. It is, for example, building into the rates if they’re going to buy power from a company or an individual. Standby rates the Power Corporation would have to take into consideration. As well, there are some hook up fees.

One of the other areas that they’re trying to deal with is the metering system. Right now it’s to have a meter be able to record the existing pattern going in one direction and then flowing back the other if the individual or company needs to draw down power from our existing grid.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thanks for those comments. I think that if the Minister were to look into this, the process actually began a number of years before that. I wonder if I could find out exactly where we’re at right now and when we can expect the capability for this operationally to be in place.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

We are working on coming forward with all the information, and I will get the additional information on exactly where, for example, the metering system is. I know from the Power Corporation side they’re open to having discussions. There are a number of factors, for example, to buying back the power, standby rates and some of the safety issues there. I will commit to the Member to get back the detail on just where we’re sitting today with that.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I appreciate that offer. That sounds wonderful. The experience in other jurisdictions — and I want to stress that this has been done for millions of households, so this is off the shelf technology. But where it has been done for the first time, typically the utility or some powers that be end up putting barriers in place through, for example, requiring unrealistically expensive meters and so

on. I wonder if we can expedite this process by just getting all the players together at the table. I think this is a modus operandi of this government.

Would the Minister be able to facilitate getting people together on a very practical basis to come up with an efficient way of getting this done and then having it approved through the regulatory process but very much expediting this process?

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

I think there are a number of factors that are occurring as we have this discussion. In fact, I think Northland NWT is in the final phases of coming up with some of these arrangements that would see an agreement in place between a customer and their own company. That, I believe, has gone forward to the PUB for review. So these things are coming in place, and if there are areas with problems, I’ll gladly look at ways we can bring the appropriate parties together to try to make things happen.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Great. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks again to the Minister for those comments. Again, I just want to stress that the experience in other jurisdictions is that when they tried to do this sort of thing, they’ve had to go through a long process because of the unreasonable requirements that initially come out of the utilities. It’s just sort of a heads up and an opportunity for us to expedite the system in an efficient way by dealing with that.

Maybe I’ll just ask if the Minister would be willing to at least be aware of that and be keen should the opportunity come up to deal with that issue before the years go by again.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

We are looking at a number of ways to try to reduce the cost of living in the Northwest Territories. The Member is right; this is not a new area. It is fairly new for the Northwest Territories or at least for the Power Corporation. Yes, we know that we need to step up to the plate in this area to look at what we can do. There has to be recognition from all parties, though, that there’s a fixed infrastructure in place for the Northwest Territories and our communities.

Although we’re trying to transition away, for example, from diesel generation, there’s still that fixed cost, the backup that we have to take into the equation when we talk about setting up these agreements and standby rates and so on.

So those are things that come into the mix, and as I’ve informed the Member, we’ll be looking at ways we can try to step up to the plate here and make it happen. I’ll be glad to sit down with the Member and go through more detail as well.

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Question 399-16(2) Net Metering Options

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of MACA , who is also the Minister responsible for consumer protection in the Northwest Territories.

I’ve been receiving a number of calls and complaints from residents about fuel pricing here in Yellowknife. I’m having trouble helping them or explaining to them how pricing is arrived at here in Yellowknife. I can’t explain it. World oil prices go down; prices in southern Canada go down corresponding to those world oil prices — in some cases just recently 12 to 15 cents a litre. But here in Yellowknife it takes a week or ten days before an adjustment is made to the prices at the pump or the fuel truck. Then when oil prices rise, it’s almost an immediate hit at the pump and at the fuel truck for residents here in Yellowknife.

I’m wondering if the Minister can help me and help residents in this market in Yellowknife explain why that is.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Ms. Lee .

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The consumer protection branch

section of MACA is responsible for responding to complaints from consumers about business practices that are unscrupulous or unethical. So far we have not had a direct complaint about gas prices and the possibility being raised by the Member.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I am appreciative of the concerns out there. The rising gas prices are a concern. As far as I know, and having done research in this area in my other capacities, the gas price at the pump is fixed. About 85 per cent of that price is fixed by the crude oil price and some taxation by various levels of the government — federal, provincial and territorial. Incidentally, territorial taxes on the fuel have not gone up since 1992.

There is room there where the prices are determined by not just the cost of bringing the fuel up to destinations but by what’s called rack price, where they look at what other retailers are charging. So there is room where the operators seem to decide what the price is that they think they can sell it for.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for that. I’m familiar with the Yellowknife market. If you look at the retailers here in Yellowknife, everybody seems to have the same price, which would lead me to believe that there’s some type of price fixing going on.

Like I said, there is no corresponding decrease at the pump or at the fuel truck when world oil prices

come down, like there is in southern Canada. I do believe that there should be an investigation. I do believe that the consumer protection division at MACA should work with the federal Competition Bureau

and look at this, have an investigation. I

think the residents here in Yellowknife and maybe in the other market communities.... I’m not familiar with those outside Yellowknife. Maybe we should have a look at that.

I’d like to ask the Minister how her department can work with the federal Competition Bureau to have an investigation on fuel pricing here.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

The Consumer Protection Act

that my department of MACA works under does not have a legislative mechanism to control price changes and frequency and how much. Also, the NWT is not one of the jurisdictions that regulates fuel prices. There are four in Canada who do that.

I’m also aware of situations where there are occasions where price fixing or coercion charges were looked into, and those have not been found to be the case. The only example we know of is an isolated case in Quebec.

Now, having said that, all are options we could consider — it’s not a MACA responsibility — as a government, and we could work with the federal government on how to address this very pressing issue. I’m willing to work with our Members of the Cabinet and the Members of this House to see what options are available for us to address these issues.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

With winter coming I think it’s very important. I want to get a commitment today from the Minister that the government will engage the Competition Bureau of Canada to have a look at the price fixing that’s obviously going on here in Yellowknife and perhaps in other market communities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Charges of price fixing or gouging or coercion are very serious. I don’t have any evidence to prove that right now, but I am willing to see what mechanisms we have in place to look into that and what options are available to the government and work with whatever agencies are out there to see if we could address that question.

In Yellowknife, though, we have a free market. I understand that the Direct Charge Co-op chose not to increase their prices. The other retailers did. Eventually everybody started buying gas at Co-op and the other parties lowered their prices — another situation of free market answering that question in an immediate way.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve lived in Yellowknife for almost 29 years, and I don’t really

recall there being any difference in prices at the pump for any extended period of time whatsoever in that 29 years, and I’ve been driving since I was 18.

Again, I want to ask the Minister: will the Government of the Northwest Territories engage the federal Competition Bureau to launch an investigation into fuel pricing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

I will undertake to look to see what they can do and what the process is, and I will provide that information to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 400-16(2) Motive Fuel Pricing

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. About my Member’s statement in regard to the notices that have been issued to communities on the cancellation of services, especially in the areas of health care and the clinics, which will not take appointments or be able see a doctor…. I would like to ask the Minister: exactly what is her department doing to deal with the nurse shortages in our small communities in light of the desperate situation we are having in Inuvik? Again, the health and well-being of those residents are critical.

Ensuring that they have health care being provided will ensure that we have healthy communities and healthy people. I’d like to ask the Minister: exactly what are you doing to try to resolve this situation where we are shutting down health centres for emergency cases only?

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to advise the Member that notices that the Members get and the Member for Nunakput gets with respect to any reduction of services in health centres — I get a copy of them, and as soon as I get them, I inquire to find out what is causing those reductions in services. Sometimes those causes are very…. We had a water situation, in fact, or sometimes it’s a scheduling problem and other situations.

But I do agree with the Member. By and large, we continue to suffer from a lack of nurses and other health care professionals in the Territories as well as in Canada. We are looking on a daily basis to make sure that reductions of services are avoided as much as we can. Having said that, I consider this my number one priority is to address the service needs in smaller communities.

We understand that we have a fiscal environment that we have to work in. We understand that we

have the pressures from national and international environments with respect to health care professionals, but I consider it’s the most important job I have as the Minister of Health to look at everything possible. I believe that the only change we can really make is to look at the territorial staffing model of doctors, nurses and other health care professionals. I am working on a proposal to come to our Standing Committee on Social Programs to work with our Members and perhaps a joint committee on rural and small communities to see how we can improve the access to services and levels of services in small communities in all social envelope areas for which I am responsible.

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, this issue has been around for some time. I know that the Inuvik Health Board had looked at some alternatives. One of them was looking at the possibility of recruiting professionals from Asia, the Philippines, and bringing them to the Inuvik region. They would work in those communities if those positions were available to them, but because of the collective bargaining agreement and under the Health Act, there were some challenges there. I think that was one of the solutions that was looked at to resolve that issue.

Has the department considered revisiting that situation, especially for the Beaufort-Delta region? Because this seems to be a systemic problem specifically to the Beaufort-Delta region.

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

That will be one of the things that will be looked at, understanding, though, that Nunavut tried that method and that it didn’t quite work out as well as they had hoped. Obviously, that is one of the considerations, but we want to make sure that we do it right.

The second thing is the nomination program that Minister Miltenberger has talked about, bringing more people from southern jurisdictions. That has an implication for making it easier for the professionally trained people to come from other areas. We have to work on the licensing issues. We have to work on making it easier for them to come.

Another thing we need to work on is to provide incentives for people to practise in rural communities, and that is not easy to do because of the collective bargaining situation and the financial restraint that we have. But I’m committed to looking at everything we can to see how we make this happen. It will not be easy, but I am working on a proposal.

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, on a recent tour to Tsiigehtchic along with the Minister of Health and the Minister of Justice it came up that there was an individual who is presently working in Holman who does fill in, in Tsiigehtchic during breakup and freeze-up, but the nurse says she’s willing to stay longer. I think that if the nurse is willing to do that, why is that not happening? We have a committed

individual who’s willing to stay longer in a community. We should do everything that we can to accommodate that person to stay as long as they can in a community if they’re willing to do so.

Has the Minister looked into that to find a way to accommodate that nurse and the community, who seem like they get along pretty well? She’s there every breakup and freeze-up. She’s willing to stay longer. So I’d like to ask the Minister: has she had an opportunity to look into that and see if that individual can stay for four months or six months in the community of Tsiigehtchic?

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Yes, I have looked into that and I am looking to extend her stay in Tsiigehtchic. The only thing is that she fills spots in other areas of the Beaufort-Delta service area because she’s employed by the authority. So if she’s taken away from somewhere else, there’s that whole picture.

I do have a communication going to the Member indicating that I’m looking into that. Hopefully, I’ll have a precise answer before I get back to you.

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Lee . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister give me a breakdown on exactly how many times these notices have been given in regard to the shortage of nurses in the Beaufort-Delta communities so we can see how often the nurses aren’t available versus being available and also the movement of nurses from one community to the other just because of the fill-in?

I’d just like to ask the Minister: can we get that information as to exactly when the health centres are on emergency watch versus the communities that are functioning versus the communities that aren’t?

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

It should be noted that all centres in Beaufort-Delta right now are fully functional. We have never had a situation where we have no nurses. We have nurses where there are supposed to be nurses. We have nurses; it’s just that the services are reduced to poor services because they can’t get a backup

they’ve had too

many hours working and they need a break

there is a breakdown in water facilities or something like that.

But I will get back to the Member on maybe over the last six months how many times the services had to be reduced and in which centres.

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Question 401-16(2) Health Care Core Service Reductions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I spoke about repairs to Highway No. 6. I’d like to ask the Minister of Transportation why the repairs to at least the worst sections of Highway No. 6 are not being done when $1 million is set aside specifically for this work this summer.

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct. There was in the June budget $1 million budgeted for work on Highway No. 6. The work is ongoing. It’s a late start in our season, to have our budget approved in June. We have done the design assessment. We’re working on gravel sources, and we’ll continue to do so.

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, in speaking with a former long term highway employee and contractor, I was told that it could take as little as three weeks to do the work and repairs, repairing the worst

section of the highway once equipment is mobilized. I was wondering if the Minister could take the initiative to try to get the work started as soon as possible.

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

The Member is correct that work can commence very quickly once all the design, once the drainage, once all the surveys are done — gravel production, everything else is completed. In this case we still are doing the design and we have completed the majority of what we plan to do. We want to go into the community and share that information with the community that the Member represents and move forward. Providing everything is in order, we hope to have the work done by the end of November, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

A quick, final question. I was wondering if the Minister could commit to passing information on about the new

schedule and scope of work for repairs to Highway No. 6 to me as soon as possible so I can pass the information on to my constituents.

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, certainly, we can commit to doing that. We’ll share the information with the honourable Member and also give him the time and the dates that we plan to go into the community of Resolute and share that information with the community. Thank you.

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Question 402-16(2) Repair And Reconstruction Of Highway No. 6

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, I have some questions about the Deh Cho Bridge. I’m not sure who’s handling that file now, whether it’s the Minister of Transportation or not. Having said that, there’s been quite a bit of progress made on the Deh Cho Bridge. I had occasion to drive to Yellowknife once this summer and saw the platform that was built out into the middle of the river from which the work is being conducted, and a significant amount of progress has taken place. However, it was communicated in a media

article about a week ago that the bridge is about six weeks behind

schedule and that this may have an impact on the work that’s been done to date.

Now, when all the discussion was taking place on the bridge and the concession agreement, there was reference made to cost overruns. I wasn’t very satisfied with the description of cost overruns. Basically, it said anything unforeseen. So I don’t know if the delay in the

schedule to date on the Deh Cho Bridge would have been classified as unforeseen cost. This is on the minds of a lot of Northerners. They’re wanting to know, if this delay in the

schedule is going to cause the price of the bridge to escalate, who’s going to pay for it?

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Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, we’re on schedule. The bridge is anticipated to be built by 2010. There is, as the Member indicated, some slippage in time frames. At the initial start of this project some material didn’t arrive as was expected, and also the high water deferred the initial start-up.

We are behind a little over a month, a month to six weeks. We expect to have all the four piers done over the winter, and we don’t expect any cost overruns.

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Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

So more specifically, then, if the contractors who are involved in this incur additional costs because of the six week delay and getting into colder temperatures and so on, just for the benefit of the public who are interested, these additional costs will not be borne by the Government of the Northwest Territories. In fact, the fixed price contract stays.

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Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, the contract has, as the Member indicated, been signed under a maximum guaranteed price, and we expect any delays or things of that nature to be borne by the contractor and the corporation. Thank you.

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Question 403-16(2) Status Of Deh Cho Bridge Construction

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement I spoke to the removal of students who are planning to come back to the Northwest Territories to do their return of service — and they do it gladly.

I would like to direct my questions today to the Minister of ECE . I’d like to ask the Minister of ECE : what’s the department’s policy on student removal once they’ve completed university or college?

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Throughout Canada our SFA program is one of the most successful, generous programs that we have, and it continues to be so.

With respect to the students who are returning, it’s always been our goal to have those students return to our Northwest Territories or even to our communities to work for our government or community governments.

For the removal program that the Member is referring to, we do offer trips to the destination of students’ studies or the institution where they are studying. We cover their cost of travelling either by air or by vehicle. Most of the time students travel by vehicle, so they can take all their belongings there and back. So those are the areas that we cover. We also cover the basic, essential needs of the students that are living in the institution, whether it be residence or their household. Mahsi.

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

I have never been one to question the generosity of our Student Financial Assistance. I have stood up here many times and praised it as being the best in the country, so that’s not the issue here. The issue here is: do we have a policy to pay for students’ removal back to the North?

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, specific to the policy itself we currently do not have a policy on the removal of the students, but we do cover their travel to their destination and back. So that’s what we offer. We offer other subsidies within our department for students’ needs. That’s what we offer through Student Financial Assistance for the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, when you first go to university, chances are you’re going to be flying out with probably a couple of suitcases. After four years you’re going to have gathered a lot of belongings, and you’re going to want to bring those home. Otherwise, you have to buy them up here. Where are they going to ship them from? They’re going to ship them from the same place they just left, so it just doesn’t make any sense.

Will the Minister commit to having his department implement a policy to pay for student removal beyond the airfare and that? I mean, that is all fine; that’s part of Student Financial Assistance program. But would he commit to developing or implementing a policy that would pay for student removal after their time at the university or college?

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Like I said before, most of the students travel down south, and they do find accommodation, apartments or residence. Most of the time it is also furnished, so they don’t really necessarily have to buy furniture. But there are times when students buy furniture, and then they sell after three or four years, after their program of studies. If we look at the number of students that we currently subsidize through the SFA program, we have over 1,400 students. Just doing the mathematics, it will be over several million if we want to implement a policy. So we have to keep that in mind as well.

So, again, we do offer various subsidies, whether it be through the Income Support program or the Student Financial Assistance program. We offer a generous package to the students for them to complete their programs and come back to the North. Mahsi.

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just from the tone of the discussion here I get the impression that, no, there is not a policy; no, we are not going to implement a policy. Even though the students could sell their furnishings, there are still a small few, after successful completion of university, who want to bring their belongings back.

That should be my question. Why is the department reluctant — other than quoting millions of dollars, which I don’t think it’s going to cost to begin with — to implement a policy for student removal?

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

We are going through a process here, of course, the business planning and certainly those ongoing discussions. There are always changes that happen. There have been some recent changes to benefit the community for students’ needs. I will certainly take the Member’s comments into consideration when we are drafting changes to our policies. We will work with what’s presented to us, so we will certainly take that into consideration. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 404-16(2) Student Financial Assistance Removal Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Oral questions. The honourable Member for

Great

Slave, Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 405-16(2) Proposed Resource Taxation Option

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my questions are for the Minister of Finance . As I

indicated in my Member’s statement, solutions to our financial challenges are both complicated and difficult. Just for the record, I don’t support, with the exception of possibly taxes on cigarettes and booze, any increases in taxes that affect our residents or taxes on our residents. I do support resource taxes, and I do support initiatives that will be focused on increasing our population.

So keeping that in mind, my question is to the Minister of Finance, and it is: has the Minister of Finance met with the diamond mines to ensure that they are meeting their obligations under the socio-economic agreements with respect to northern employment? Specifically, have you met with the diamond mines to ensure that they are finding ways of encouraging their employees to stay and live in the North?

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Question 405-16(2) Proposed Resource Taxation Option

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 405-16(2) Proposed Resource Taxation Option

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, ITI regularly meets with the diamond mines. There is a meeting