Debates of Feb. 20th, 2006

This is page numbers 1119 - 1168 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Barren-ground Caribou Management Interim Measures

Education Week 2006

Climate Change

Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Incentives For Northern Businesses

Personal Directives Act

Predator Management Plans

Day Care Services

Compensation For Long-term Northern Nurses

Consideration For A Department Of Culture, Heritage And Languages

Crown Corporation Accountability

Social Housing Opportunities

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Climate Change

Predator Management Plans

Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Incentives For Northern Businesses

Personal Directives Act

Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Incentives For Northern Businesses

Crown Corporation Accountability

Compensation For Long-term Northern Nurses

Return To Written Question 25-15(4): GNWT Diamond Strategy

Return To Written Question 20-15(4): Housing Program In Sahtu Region

Tabled Document 90-15(4): Caribou Forever - Our Heritage, Our Responsibility, A Barren-ground Caribou Management Strategy For The Northwest Territories 2006-2010

Tabled Document 91-15(4): Statutory Declaration Of Residence, Member For Nahendeh

Tabled Document 92-15(4): Concerns Regarding Proposed Funding Changes And Secondary Students

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2005-2006

Item 16: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 19: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche, Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1119

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister for Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 73-15(4): Barren-ground Caribou Management Interim Measures

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1119

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, evidence from traditional and scientific sources show that barren-ground caribou herds are declining across much of North America. Barren-ground caribou, like other species, follow cyclical population patterns. Factors such as climate change, predation, hunting, development, disease and fire can impact these cycles. Recent surveys show herd declines ranging from 40 percent in some herds to as high as 86 percent in others.

Given this trend, the Government of the Northwest Territories, along with co-management boards and harvesters, must act in the best interests of preserving our barren-ground caribou populations.

The Department of Environment and Natural Resources is responsible for the conservation and protection of our environment and natural resources. To achieve this objective, the department uses the best information available. When wildlife population trends suggest there is a serious concern, the department applies the "precautionary principle." This means that management decisions shall err on the side of caution. We know that caribou numbers are declining and we must take reasonable conservation measures now to prevent serious or irreparable damage to this resource.

The actions we take over the next five years will have a profound impact on the recovery of barren-ground caribou. Our first step will be to institute interim management measures aimed at reducing harvest levels. The second phase will involve further information gathering on caribou numbers, predation levels and subsistence harvest counts. To guide our actions, the department has developed a Northwest Territories Barren-Ground Caribou Management Strategy 2006-2010. The strategy will steer our work in this area through the coming years. Later today, I will table a copy of this document and look forward to receiving feedback on the activities and plans it outlines.

Mr. Speaker, as a result of the Bathurst caribou management plan and recent herd surveys, we have, over the past year, been meeting with groups to talk about caribou management. In addition to meetings with the Inuvialuit, Sahtu and Gwich'in co-management boards, we discussed the declining caribou numbers with leaders from the Tlicho, Yellowknives Dene, Dene Nation, Northwest Territory Metis Nation, barren-ground outfitters, as well as representatives from the adjacent jurisdictions of Nunavut, Yukon, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

The first interim step is to reduce harvest levels. To meet this goal, a number of immediate actions will be applied across the Northwest Territories in the next six months. These include:

• developing a major public education campaign, including television, radio and print media;

• increasing monitoring and enforcement patrols;

• reducing caribou tags for resident harvesters from five to two;

• allowing resident harvesters to hunt bulls only;

• establishing a new management zone for the Cape Bathurst herd;

• delaying the public release of maps showing the locations of satellite collared caribou by two weeks; and

• investigating ways to mitigate impacts on harvesters.

Other immediate actions will be herd-specific and will include reductions to resident and commercial harvests recommended by co-management boards. Caribou tags for outfitters on the Bathurst fall range will return to 1999 levels. This will be done over a two-year period and reductions over the first year will only involve those tags that go unused. In addition, wolf tags for non-resident harvesters will be increased from one to two, and voluntary harvest limits proposed by the co-management boards will be accepted.

These changes will not happen overnight, Mr. Speaker. A number of the actions planned will require amendments to regulations. It is our intention to work with our partners to make the required changes as quickly as possible and we will notify the public through media announcements as these changes come into force.

As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Speaker, these interim measures are the first step. Over the spring and summer months, we plan on gathering up-to-date herd information and will be conducting a study on caribou predation. Once this information has been collected, we will consult with our partners and stakeholders, reassess our position and will work with co-management boards to develop the

longer-term steps necessary to ensure healthy and sustainable caribou herds for today and the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 73-15(4): Barren-ground Caribou Management Interim Measures

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1120

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 74-15(4): Education Week 2006

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1120

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Education Week is February 20th to 24th in the Northwest Territories. It is an opportunity for all of us to celebrate the roles education plays in enriching and improving our lives.

The theme for Education Week 2006 is "Get Smart About Energy." We are encouraging communities to celebrate Education Week by learning different ways to practice responsible energy consumption.

Schools throughout the NWT have been given a list of energy learning links. These web sites provide access to a wealth of information about energy. For example, students can discover how their use of energy contributes to greenhouse gas emissions that result in climate change. They can also find tips to get smarter about the power they use everyday.

Research indicates the Canadian Arctic is already experiencing serious and wide-ranging impacts from climate change. Melting permafrost, declining water levels in our lakes and rivers, changes in our air quality and uncommon weather patterns are all signs that climate change is currently taking place in the NWT and that action is required.

We know that education is one of the first steps towards improving energy consumption patterns. Posters, teacher resources and energy-efficient nightlights will be distributed to schools to promote informed decisions about energy use in the classroom, home and community.

Our annual celebration of Education Week is an excellent opportunity for each of us to reflect on the impact we have on our environment. It is important to acquire as much information and knowledge as possible and then take action to preserve the NWT landscape that we know today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 74-15(4): Education Week 2006

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1120

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Ministers' statements. Members, I would like to draw your attention to the third Monday in February of each year is set aside for Heritage Day. Heritage Day is an opportunity to celebrate the architectural, heritage and historic places of Canada. Canada has a wealth of cultural heritage places including First Nation longhouses, concert halls, opera houses, bandstands, cinemas, community halls, museums and art galleries, et cetera. It is nice to see some of the Members have chosen to celebrate Heritage Day by wearing traditional clothing in the House today.

---Applause

Orders of the day. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Climate Change

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1120

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last Thursday was the first anniversary of the coming into force of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change. This is an agreement signed by Canada and some 150 other nations, and it calls for a five percent global reduction of greenhouse gases by the year 2012. Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge the outstanding contributions of two organizations here in the NWT, the Arctic Energy Alliance and Ecology North, for the initiatives they are taking in heightening awareness of effective greenhouse gas reduction and what we can do to make a difference.

Mr. Speaker, Canada is number four -- and that would be fourth worst -- on the list of 32 OECD countries for our generation of carbon dioxide. Canadians have the dubious distinction of producing 16.7 tons of CO2 per capita. We, in the North, are particularly energy dependent, and with increasing diamond production and the prospect of pipeline development, we will be even more energy hungry. So, Mr. Speaker, what are we doing here in the NWT about finding alternatives to fossil fuels? What is our government doing to develop our vast hydro potential?

What is our government doing to ensure that communities on the pipeline route are going to be able to replace dirty diesel with cleaner burning natural gas for their energy needs?

Mr. Speaker, the 1980s and '90s were the warmest decades on record; 1998 so far the warmest year. From the University of Manitoba comes a startling find that the polar ice cap is disappearing at the rate of 74,000 square kilometres a year, an area the size of Lake Superior. It's too late to reverse the trend, Mr. Speaker, but many, many people believe, and I am one of them, that at least it can be slowed.

Part of the solution is individual responsibility, and action, and certainly, Mr. Speaker, a big part of it is how government can show leadership and take concrete action as our government has when it joined others this December in signing a declaration on climate change. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Climate Change

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1120

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Before I go on, Members, I would like to draw your attention to the gallery to the presence of a former Member of this House, Mr. Leon Lafferty, former Member of Great Slave ; or North Slave, rather.

---Applause

Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche.

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Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1120

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, in March 2004, the federal government announced new funding of $90 million over five years to the three territories for strategic investment in northern economic development, or SINED. Well, Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of people out there who would like to get signed up, but, unfortunately, the status of this fund in the

Northwest Territories is a bit of a mystery, especially following the recent federal election.

Mr. Speaker, the announcement of the $90 million was greeted with a lot of enthusiasm for good reason. The NWT has been without an economic development agreement with the federal government for years and we are paying for that lack of investment today.

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Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1121

An Hon. Member

Shame, shame!

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Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1121

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Resource development works quickly and it is difficult for small businesses to keep up in order to take advantage of the opportunities. Other sectors such as renewable resources and tourism also need help so we can diversify our economy. Unfortunately, the payoff has been slow in coming. Other than $150,000 for five projects that was announced in March of 2005 and last November's announcement of $2 million for geoscience activities, we have heard very little about how this fund is being used. By now, two years after the original announcement, I would have expected a lot more.

Why wasn't this fund tapped into more and sooner? Where has the money gone? Is it still a sure thing with the change of the federal government? Have we been signed off? Mr. Speaker, I hope this is not like the case of the old lady who went down in the Titanic taking her jewels with her to the bottom of the ocean. If we don't hear anything soon, this government might have some luck in hiring some divers to search the bottom of this mysterious lake, because those jewels are desperately needed in the NWT today. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1121

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1121

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to weigh in today on the discussion regarding the business incentive policy and the support, I believe, this government must continue to provide to northern businesses.

I am glad to hear that the government is not moving ahead with its intended plans to scrap the BIP and that there is room for the government to look at where we go from here.

I have heard from a number of constituents over the past week with regard to the BIP. I do share their concern that the policy must not be dropped and, in fact, that the Government of the Northwest Territories has a perfect opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to open up the policy and strengthen it even more, so that true, 100 percent owned northern businesses can be treated with the preference that the original BIP was intended for.

As for the two percent tax cut for small business, this should just happen; no question. Small business remains to be the engine of our economy and they should be given every opportunity to succeed and the tax cut should take place. I am interested in hearing from the Minister what exactly the government's plans are for the BIP and whether or not strengthening is an option.

In my opinion, what we have to do is put more teeth in the BIP. The benefits must accrue to true, 100 percent owned northern businesses. Employees must live here; ownership must live here; taxes must be paid here. We can't continue to allow for absentee ownership or companies whose workforce just don't live here. We can't allow them to continue to benefit from the BIP. Mr. Speaker, it does a disservice to those who are true, 100 percent owned northern businesses. As a government, we have to take the guesswork out of who is really northern and who isn't.

Once this is done, I am certain the Minister can hope to cut down on the cost of administrating the policy. To me, it's quite simple: Either you are 100 percent northern or you're not. The criteria, Mr. Speaker, can be easily arrived at.

We certainly do not want to lose more companies, people and economic opportunity to the South. We have to protect our own and no one else is going to do this for us, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

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Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1121

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Personal Directives Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1121

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last October, this Assembly passed the Personal Directives Act, which I understand is now in force as of January 1st. Personal directives, which are sometimes referred to as living wills, allow people to give advance instructions about how their personal matters will be handled should they be unable to make decisions for themselves. An individual can provide advanced direction for their medical care and also other personal matters such as where they would live, who would be allowed to visit them and who would make decisions on their behalf.

Many people make their wishes known to loved ones and caregivers anyway, but the act will now make it possible for their instructions to be legally binding on health care professionals and family members. The act complements the Powers of Attorney Act, which allows people to leave advanced directions about how their financial matters will be handled if they become incapacitated.

Mr. Speaker, this legislation was welcomed with open arms by advocates for seniors and persons with disabilities as long overdue. It gives individuals dignity and control over their own private matters by allowing them to make critical decisions in advance of becoming incapacitated. A personal directive can also lift the burden of difficult choices from loved ones who need to focus on providing support to the incapacitated person, or on grieving.

For people who are growing older, or who are living with conditions that they know will eventually leave them unable to make decisions for themselves, personal directives can give them the security of knowing that they will be cared for as they would wish. Also, although we don't like to think about it, Mr. Speaker, the fact is that any of us could be suddenly incapacitated by a serious accident or injury. For this reason, any adult, young or old, should seriously consider taking advantage of the new legislation and making a personal directive for themselves, along with a power of attorney.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased this legislation is now in force and, later today, I will have questions for the Minister about how it's being implemented. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Personal Directives Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Predator Management Plans

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Mr. Speaker, I want to make a statement on caribou management. (Translation ends)

...fish for a living. In this way, we practice our traditional lifestyle and eat a healthy diet rich in our country foods. For the Tlicho people, hunting is not a hobby; it's a way of life, Mr. Speaker. The caribou herds are declining and it's getting harder and harder to find them. The Cape Bathurst herd has declined from an estimate of 17,500 in 1992 to an estimate of 2,400 in 2005. That's a huge decline, Mr. Speaker.

The Bluenose herd has declined from an estimated 104,000 in 2000 to an estimate of 66,600 in 2005, Mr. Speaker. Because the caribou are disappearing, wolves and grizzly bears are becoming a problem in our communities, as you have heard in the latest news. It's becoming a huge problem.

Wolves are attacking pets and dragging them off. The wolf population is probably stressed from not finding enough caribou to eat as a source of meat for them, so they are coming closer in contact with humans, Mr. Speaker, into communities.

Residents can kill as many wolves as they want. ENR is proposing to double the tags for non-resident wolf kills. Predator management plans will help us save our caribou, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of ENR needs to sit down with the Tlicho communities and discuss the best way to handle the predators that are moving into our communities, Mr. Speaker. We need to discuss the shrinking caribou population and how we can manage this situation together. For the Tlicho, Mr. Speaker, the caribou are much more than a sport; they have always been part of our way of life and they will always be, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Predator Management Plans

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Day Care Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since I couldn't even find adequate temporary day care services for my son this morning, I felt compelled to talk about the high demand for day care services and the lack of response from this government to address day care issues.

Mr. Speaker, some of my colleagues have talked about the imbalance in funding and other services that day cares in Yellowknife are experiencing, but I want to point out that this imbalance is even more obvious in our remote communities where the number of young, single parents comprise a greater segment of the whole population.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to see a greater lobbying effort with the federal government to find a better financial arrangement to make some real differences for day cares in the NWT, a service that seems to come and go, and people not knowing whether operations will continue from year to year in many of our communities.

Mr. Speaker, the government also has to be creative in their approach to address day care concerns and not always leave that requirement at the local level, like we hear all the time from our Minister when answering concerns about day cares. Mr. Speaker, these day cares are creative. That's their job. Ours is to be cognizant, resourceful and effective. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Day Care Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Compensation For Long-term Northern Nurses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, providing quality health care and supplying health care workers should be a priority of this government. We train northerners to become nurses to staff our hospitals, yet we have to continue to bring up nurses from the South. I understand, Mr. Speaker, that we need these nurses to come north and they are well compensated for their time up here. Until we can staff our hospitals with northern nurses -- and hopefully that day will come soon -- we have to continue to use southern nurses.

The message we have to send to our northern, long-term nurses is we will compensate you as well as we do the southern nurses. We have nurses who have come north years ago and decided to make the North their home, and for that we thank them.

The point I am trying to make, Mr. Speaker, is that northern and long-term nurses should also enjoy some of the benefits as their southern counterparts. We should have a retention bonus paid for every few years of service in the North. It could be two nurses, Mr. Speaker, working side by side, one from the North and one from the South. The one from the South will be making more in benefits than the one from the North, and they can go back home and enjoy a lower cost of living than the one from the North having an extreme high cost of living and they are paid less than their southern counterparts.

So, Mr. Speaker, we need long-term and northern nurses in the North and let's do what we can, as a government, to make that a reality and compensate them as they deserve. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Compensation For Long-term Northern Nurses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1122

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Consideration For A Department Of Culture, Heritage And Languages

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1123

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment was one of the first departments to transfer to the territorial government when the government came north from Ottawa in the late 1960s. At the time, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education was concerned with the education of our children and providing adult vocational training. Over the years, the department's mandate has expanded to include the following: arts and culture; heritage and museums; languages, aboriginal and French; colleges, including the granting of university degrees; employment programs; income security programs; and Labour Board.

As you see, Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a fairly extensive list of responsibilities and I strongly believe that amongst these competing priorities, culture, heritage and language are getting the short end of the stick. This is somewhat understandable, given the support most northerners have for quality education in our schools and post-secondary programming. Mr. Speaker, I believe this is because the sheer size of the department and the many roles it is expected to pay in defining northern society. The areas of culture, heritage and languages do not have a true champion at the table, Mr. Speaker.

This is not the fault of the current Minister. I feel for him, having to make choices between competing priorities, but I cannot fault for choosing to improve education for our children and making sure that those who are less fortunate have the income security programs they need over increasing funding for culture, heritage and languages.

The Government of Nunavut has recognized this need, Mr. Speaker, and created a Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth. I believe we should be looking at their model in developing a department that is focussed on culture, heritage and languages. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Consideration For A Department Of Culture, Heritage And Languages

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1123

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Crown Corporation Accountability

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1123

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the most important roles of Regular Members is to hold the government accountable for the use of taxpayers' money. Accountability is the basic tenant of good governance. To do this effectively, Members need objective and fact-based information. The work done by the office of the Auditor General of Canada is critical with this respect.

Mr. Speaker, reports are independent and a reliable source of information given to us by the Auditor General, but there are several other kinds of audits. The most familiar we are aware of is a financial audit where there is an examination of the department's financial transactions and practices. Another is a performance audit, otherwise known as value-for-money audit. Performance audits ask, are programs being run with due regard for economy, efficiency and environmental impact? Performance audits contain recommendations that can serve as a springboard to lasting and positive change in the public entity's function.

Performance audits of Crown corporations are especially important because Regular Members do not review the budgets and business plans of Crown corporations, as we do for other government departments. There is a lack of direct oversight on the part of elected MLAs. We need to work collectively to fix this, Mr. Speaker.

Regular performance audits could be the vehicle to ensure the Crown corporations are running efficiently and effectively with no waste to public money. Performance audits are not being done as regularly as I would like, and current financial audits do not provide the same degree or rigorous examination. I would like to see changes implemented to ensure that regular performance audits of all Crown corporations happen. I would like to see this government pass legislation called the Crown corporations accountability act that would do this. This would clearly say to the public that this Assembly is committed to regular rigorous accountability through the audit process.

We have the ability to pass laws that directly affect us. Let's pass one that shows we are committed to this process. Mr. Speaker, this is a bold process; to say we are committed to examining our books, regularly and in a fair way. We want to ensure that the public is getting the most efficient and effective government and the best management of the public purse possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Crown Corporation Accountability

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1123

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Social Housing Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1123

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I must say I was very happy to see a spontaneous debate break out in this House last week about opportunities for future social housing in the North, precisely the kind of issues that should get us all rolling up our sleeves and looking at the pros and cons of any idea that comes before us.

As well, as I have said many times before, I agree with all the MLAs in this House that the need for social housing in our territory has reached a crisis proportion. In our travels, there is nothing else more urgent, and my colleagues, especially from the small communities, are doing their job well by fighting hard to make something happen for social housing and I support them in that endeavour.

What we should keep in mind, though, Mr. Speaker, is we should keep in mind that together with the help of the federal government and private sector, this government is coming to the table with a lot of money and influence for the benefit of any company who would get this deal, and it's about time that this government started playing hardball on all of its files and stop sending comfort letters and comfort contracts, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, it's time this government starts talking about what the companies can do for us, instead of spending

our budget and influence talking about what we can do for one company. We must not be satisfied with promises of northern participation of business and labour. We must see concrete deals in writing for our people. I would like to see, for example, a northern training centre being built out of this project.

Mr. Speaker, surely $500 million should make any company in the world sit up and take notice. Any company who gets to build housing for Imperial stands to make nothing but money; stands to make nothing but money. They'll get the $235 million from Imperial; $40 million plus for the premium; they'll have backup from this government and the federal government to the tune of $200 million plus, and they will have this government developing some very scarce lots. For this, I'd like to see much more for the northerners.

Anyone who wants to build 10 houses for this government would have to go through a competitive bidding process. Government says that ATCO is investing $10 million on this idea and they're doing their part. Well, Mr. Speaker, Imperial Oil plans to invest seven to nine billion into the Territories and they're going through a three-year public regulatory process. Surely any company who would be hired to build housing for 25,000 workers and turn those housing into 1,400 mobile homes needs to be taken to task for more about what they can do for us.

Mr. Speaker, already, though, I am seeing that our questions about northern labour and northern business...Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement?

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Social Housing Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays?

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Social Housing Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1124

An Hon. Member

Nay.

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Social Housing Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

I hear a nay. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. The honourable Member from Inuvik Boot Lake and Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

Point Of Privilege

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Social Housing Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1124

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today on a point of personal privilege under Rule 20(1). In today's News/North there's an

article on page 13 entitled "ATCO trailers draw fire." Accompanying the

article is a picture of an ATCO trailer with the caption, and I quote, "The government wants to convert a new variety of ATCO trailer for residential use in aboriginal communities."

Mr. Speaker, one is left with the impression that the ATCO trailer pictured in the

article would be used in the Novel project. It seems to me that the News/North has misunderstood the nature of the proposed project, and I'd like to clarify, for the record, that the ATCO unit pictured in the

article would be completely inadequate for the Novel project, and I will be offering a press briefing next week to alleviate any future misunderstandings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Social Housing Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to highlight Chief Lafferty from Behchoko, Chief Football from Wekweeti, and Chief Gon from Gameti present and here. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member from Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd also like to recognize my former colleague Leon Lafferty, Chief Leon Lafferty. For Heritage Day today, I'm proud to say that Leon took my jacket home and his mom did the Dogrib embroidery on my jacket. Thank you, Leon.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member from Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize a constituent of mine, Mr. Manuel Jorge, who is with us today. He runs a manufacturing facility in the riding of Kam Lake: Energy Wall Products. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member from Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to introduce and recognize Georgina Fabian from the Hay River Reserve. She's the mother of one of our Pages that are working with us today. I'd also like to recognize Lorne Napier, a former college buddy of mine from Fort Smith. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. I'd like to welcome everyone in the gallery today. The honourable Member from Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to recognize Chief Henry Gon from the Tlicho leadership. One time Henry and I were fighting fires in the assembly line. In the late '70s we were fighting fires and today we're putting out different fires...

---Laughter

Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1124

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, thank you. My question this afternoon is for the Honourable Michael Miltenberger as the Minister responsible for the environment. It relates to his participation in December of last year, Mr. Speaker, in Montreal, along with our Premier , when they signed, among 18 other states and countries to provide the Declaration of Federated States and Regional Government on Climate Change. The first commitment of this agreement, Mr. Speaker, is to set achievable short and long-term targets and objectives within our own jurisdictions for overall emission reductions.

Could the Minister advise this House in implementing this agreement, what commitments has this government made to short and long-term achievable targets for greenhouse gas reduction, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

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Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there hasn't been much specificity arrived at our targets set as a result of that agreement that was signed not very long ago. But suffice it to say, Mr. Speaker, we have a number of initiatives on a number of different fronts that are attempting to deal with this. We're going to have a white paper out on energy that's going to give a chance to get feedback on that. We were working very closely with the former federal government on a climate change agreement that was very, very close to being finalized.

We're waiting to have meetings with the new Conservative government to see where that's going to take us. But we recognize, Mr. Speaker, that we're going to have some serious challenges before us if the pipeline goes ahead; our amount of emissions is going to increase. So we're working with them, as well, to look at the potential of hydro development. So we're looking at a number of ways, across the board, to look at what we can do to limit our emissions before we come to this more specific task of setting targets. Thank you.

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Return To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a bit discouraging to find out that we're continuing to do yet more study and more exploration, Mr. Speaker, in the face, for instance, that our own NWT greenhouse reduction strategy dated in 2001 is still in draft form, and yet we're continuing to study this issue. Mr. Speaker, further to the Minister's reference to hydro, there is enormous potential in the Northwest Territories, and we certainly know that we have some very strong candidates for anchor customers in the pipeline and the diamond mines. Could the Minister advise how the advancement of hydro power will be pursued as a source of cleaner energy for mining and other development, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's work being done on the Taltson hydro expansion that's going to look at running a line north to be able to feed the diamond mine with the surplus power that is currently there, with the ability to expand the Taltson dam to be able to generate over 100 megawatts of power. That's a significant initiative. There's work being done on the Bear River, as well; initial studies.

There's working being done as part of the Mackenzie gas pipeline development to see about the use of that power, that hydroelectricity, to be able to generate the power required to run the compressor stations on the pipeline, which are two major developments. I'd point out as we are doing our own work, we've also received indication that the Alberta government is once again seriously exploring the dam on the Slave River. So there's hydro throughout this territory and in Alberta where there's serious work being done.

Our focus is on what's happening in the Northwest Territories, but we have to be very, very cognizant about what's happening in the South, as well, because it will impact our ability up here. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the Minister mentioned, in his answer, that we're talking to the pipeline folks about distribution along the pipeline route, and about powering the pipeline with potential hydro from the Bear River project. When the diamond mines were set up, we weren't quite on our game here. We should have made it a condition, I believe, of diamond mine development that they would take our hydro energy. Can the Minister advise whether we are taking this kind of bold and progressive step with the Mackenzie gas project?

Are we looking at making it a condition or a discussion with them, that they will make natural gas available to communities along the pipeline route? Is that a condition of our acceptance of a pipeline, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Miltenberger . Honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The question is outside of the Minister's mandate. It is a question of whether or not the pipeline will provide gas to communities that it goes along. That remains yet to be negotiated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Question 421-15(4): Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1125

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) The question I have will be regarding the caribou management. (Translation ends)

...ensure that whatever plans are in place for caribou herd management will not affect the livelihood and tradition of the first people of the North, including those people in my region: the Tlicho Nation? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Member that as long as the Wekeezhii board is operational and in business, we will be working very closely with them, as well as all the other wildlife boards up and down the valley, to look very carefully at what's happening with the caribou herds, the declining populations and the short-term steps we're taking, but, more importantly, the long-term planning that's going to be required that we all do collectively. That commitment is there, with the goal to sustainability and preserving the herds. Thank you.

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Return To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of ENR if the Minister has discussed the caribou problems or challenges with the Wekeezhii Renewable Resources Board, and also if that was shared with the Tlicho communities, Mr. Speaker? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our initial discussions were with the Tlicho chiefs where we discussed the issue, got some initial feedback from them prior to the Wekeezhii board coming into force and into operation. The plan now, very clearly, is to work with the board as we move forward with all the work that's to be done. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my final question is relating to the predators. I want to ask the Minister what he plans to do about the increasing problem of predators in the communities. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have heard the concerns from a number of different areas, including from the Tlicho region. As I've indicated in my statement today, we're going to be doing some studies on predators, initially looking at the wolf population. As well, we've raised the tags from one to two. As well, my understanding is the prices for wolf pelts are very, very high. There's an opportunity for people to help thin out the population as they go about their business of trapping. We're going to be doing some predation studies to give us some baseline information, and we can decide, very clearly, once again in cooperation with all our partners, what the next steps will be. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Question 422-15(4): Predator Management Plans

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Oral questions. The honourable Member from Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche.

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Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'm just going to follow up on my Member's statement and ask questions on the strategic infrastructure for northern economic development, to the Premier , Mr. Speaker. It's been said time and time again that the GNWT or the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, is having unprecedented growth. However, there are still disparities that are occurring throughout the North in the different regions. One can argue that even the region that I represent is facing some economic hardships. It's kind of hard to believe, but that's the case. One can make the business case by using stats.

So when this fund was announced in 2004, I thought that as an MLA here's an opportunity to get some funds to stimulate my region of Nahendeh. Since this fund has been in place, maybe the Premier can tell me and this House how has our North benefited to date from this special fund, and where is this fund at. Mahsi cho.

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Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the fund was announced, and I believe it was in the federal budget address for 2004, we also anticipated that that money would flow like the previous northern economic development funds; or, better yet, flow directly to our government through our lending institutions to be available to small businesses.

Mr. Speaker, over the years since then, myself and the other two territorial Premiers argued that that money should be divided up to each territory and through the existing institutions. The Minister responsible for northern development of the day thought it should be managed by the federal government. We were not given direct access to it. Mr. Speaker, late in the last calendar year, our government was approached to see if we could use some of the money. Two point four million was largely for geotechnical work. Other than that, I believe one or two business may have benefited, but, Mr.

Speaker, it's been frustrating because we have not had an ability to be able to manage that money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1126

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

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Supplementary To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Just with respect to that fund, it's a $30 million fund available through the GNWT; $90 million for the three territories. However, in the two years that it was utilized for our territory, there was just over $2 million expended. There was $150,000 on five separate projects in total, and, as well, $2 million invested in geoscience. It's strange that they imported $2 million in stimulating an already-growing sector. It's not that sector that needs the help in the North there, Mr. Speaker.

So I'd like to know, does the Premier and does this government have a strategy in order to tap into this fund that's there? I know that we created a beautiful package called Corridors for Canada II. Do we have a similar vehicle for the federal government, Mr. Speaker? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This one is fairly simple. We want the federal government to have the $30 million allocated for the Northwest Territories made available through our institutions to then be flowed, on application, to small businesses where it should be. Mr. Speaker, today the Minister for ITI is going to be speaking to the Minister of DIAND and will be raising this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

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Supplementary To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I guess that was one of the biggest points, is to let this new government know that we don't want this fund kind of just being swept under the rug and disappearing from access to our Territories, and to access it once again for our people and our communities. So will this government bring it up with the new federal government, that this is very important to us? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I agree with the honourable Member, that this money should be managed in the North by a northern government. It should be through our institutions. We've got existing ways of supporting small businesses, so we would like to have our $30 million share managed here.

Mr. Speaker, going further, I know our Minister for Industry, Tourism and Investment will also be talking with the federal Minister of DIAND about a long-term EDA, so we're not going every few years looking for a little bit more money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Question 423-15(4): Strategic Investment For Northern Economic Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Before I go on, Members, I'd like to draw your attention to the gallery today and recognize the following visiting dignitaries under the northern dimension of Canada's foreign policy outreach program: Mr. Jack Anawak, ambassador for circumpolar affairs...

---Applause

Mr. Lorenz Friedlaender, ambassador of Canada to Sweden...

---Applause

Mr. Richard Tetu, ambassador of Canada to Iceland...

---Applause

Ms. Fredericka Gregory, ambassador of Canada to Denmark...

---Applause

Ms. Jillian Stirk, ambassador of Canada to Norway...

---Applause

Ms. Anne-Marie Boucier, ambassador of Canada to Finland...

---Applause

Mr. Jeffrey Parker, consul general to Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Alaska...

---Applause

Mr. Michael Small, director general, Human Security and Human Rights Bureau...

---Applause

Mr. Pierre Guimond, director, Eastern Europe and Balkans division...

---Applause

also our chief of protocol, Carmen Moore, in the gallery.

---Applause

I want to welcome you all to the House today and I hope you're enjoying your tour of Yellowknife, and the Chamber, and the House. Thank you.

---Applause

Oral questions. The honourable Member from Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1127

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment . Given the fact that we've had some discussions here in the House just recently on what the Minister and the department plan on doing with options and consultation with regard to the business incentive policy, I'd like to ask the Minister whether or not he would be willing to entertain an option to strengthen the business incentive policy so that true, 100 percent-owned,

northern operated businesses, those who live here, those whose employees live here and pay taxes here, receive the benefits of this business incentive policy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, it's very tempting to just say yes to the question, but it's a very difficult question, Mr. Speaker, for a number of reasons. One of the things that we've recognized is that government procurement is no longer the only game in town. With mines and oil and gas, we've got a very vibrant private sector. There are businesses taking good advantage of that sector and making their livelihood that way. So the BIP isn't as relevant as it used to be.

I've had discussions with the Finance Minister about potential removal of the BIP. If we are able to remove the BIP, we know we'd save some administrative money. I know, and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has told us that NWT businesses are interested in reduction of red tape and a more competitive taxation regime. We think we can trade that for the BIP which is no longer as compelling as it was in the past. But I'm open to discussion with businesses. We are consulting. The Chamber of Commerce is out hearing from businesses. We want to know that they think, Mr. Speaker. I think that's the important part.

What I'm not interested in is an overly convoluted, complex, additional bureaucratic regime. If we talk about ensuring that only true northern businesses with only northern employees would reap the rewards of some sort of protectionist policy, it's very obvious to recognize that we can't be policing and auditing everybody to ensure that they spend all of their time in the Northwest Territories, all of the money stays here. I don't want to add layers of bureaucracy and complexity. So I'm open to discussion. But let's keep the goals in mind: competitive taxation and reduction of the regulatory burden. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't think it would get any more complicated. In fact, I think it would be much simpler. Either you're northern, or your not. Either your employees live here, or they don't. Either you live here, or you don't. To me, it's quite simple. There's been some concerns, because of the discussion here in the House recently. There's been concerns in the business community about the two percent reduction in tax rate for small businesses. I'd like the Minister to maybe just elaborate a little bit further on this.

Who qualifies as a small business, and what will this reduction, what would it cost us? Can the Minister make a commitment to see this reduction through, regardless of what discussions happen on the future of BIP? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The Chair heard about three questions there. The Minister can answer one or all three. Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

There are a number of them, Mr. Speaker. I'll try to be as concise as I can. One of the options on the table, if we're able to do away with the BIP and save some money in administration, one of the things that I approached the Finance Minister with was the potential of taking our small business tax rate from four percent to two percent; really a 50 percent reduction. The small business rate applies to income; a net income geared up to $300,000. So anything above the $300,000 mark has the corporate business tax rate applied...We know we just talked about reducing that from 14 to 11.5.

So I've approached the Finance Minister . We've discussed a number of options that we're able to save money on BIP administration. This was but one of the options that we discussed. I would say, though, that I doubt he's going to be amenable to the tax break without a reduction of administration. We've got to pay for it somehow, Mr. Speaker. So obviously I'm not in a position to be able to decide what tax rates are applied. That's the Finance Minister 's decision and the Cabinet's decision.

But I do know that the premise was that if we could save administrative money, we could plough it back into the competitiveness of our small businesses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess too many questions on this, and it is a sensitive issue for many people here in the Northwest Territories. I guess the last question I'll ask, and I'll try to keep it to one question, what is the time frame for the government's decisions regarding the business incentive policy and where we're going with this? I think it's important that we get this time frame out there so that businesses and residents here know what exactly the government's game plan is regarding the business incentive policy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1128

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member knows, I've met with the NWT chamber. I do intend to meet with the other local chambers. The NWT chamber is conducting a survey now of its membership. I think they've given them a month to respond. We'll take that feedback; take the feedback that we've heard from the Governance and Economic Development committee, and we'd like to make a decision this spring or early summer. I'm not interested in a year-and-a-half consultation exercise where we go far and wide and discuss a wide range of potential options. Governments previous have done that to no avail.

It comes down to political will. Either we decide that it's more important to lower our tax rates and have a competitive regime, or it's apparently more important to say with this what I believe

is an outdated protectionist policy. I don't say that in an absolutely negative manner, Mr. Speaker. I think the point here is that this was once very relative and very compelling and helped northern businesses get established. I just don't think it's doing the job anymore, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 424-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Oral questions. The honourable Member from Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

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Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

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Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Minister. I'd like to ask the Minister, though, what support and training is the department providing to health care professionals so that they understand their obligations when they come across a personal directive, and also so that they can make patients aware, in appropriate circumstances, of their right to make a personal directive? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was a commitment made when we brought this bill forward that there would be the necessary training done. As this work is rolled out, there will be accompanying information and work done with the health centres, boards and authorities to make sure the staff are conversant in this legislation and are able to work with the individuals that may be interested to use the samples and brochures that are there, as well as access the CDs and other media work that's being done, which will be sent out upon completion. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize a commitment was made. I was more wondering where we are at with that commitment, but I am going to move on to my last question. In practical terms, a personal directive is not of much use if a person's family members and health care professionals are not aware that it exists. I understand that the act allows for the department to establish a registry of personal directives, which people could consult to find out whether an incapacitated person has made a directive. Has the department taken any steps, to date, to establish that registry? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, work is underway to ensure that that ability is there for people. We haven't finalized it yet that I am aware of, but I know that we intend to honour that commitment. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Question 425-15(4): Personal Directives Act

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1129

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week, this House passed a motion unanimously naming Deline as the birthplace of ice hockey in Canada.

---Applause

Also, Mr. Speaker, earlier I talked about the split of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Over the weekend, I had an opportunity to go out on the land with some of the family members and cooked out there and had the elders there. We talked about the importance of language, culture and heritage. In my statement today, I talked about the department considering having a look at the split of this department because of all the responsibilities that it's undertaken so far.

I want to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , has his department considered a split into something where Nunavut has the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth and if it's part of a 10-year review plan? Thank you.

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Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In honour of the motion that we undertook on Thursday here, I spent my weekend at the arena watching hockey, particularly watching teams from Tulita and Norman Wells in a Peewee hockey tournament.

Mr. Speaker, whether or not the department would be divided in two is something that we are going to consider over the next year-and-a-half and make recommendations to the next government. We are looking at perhaps making a recommendation that would see the department split along the lines of the two ADMs in the department right now, which would include employment and income support in the language and culture side.

We are finding that it is actually quite useful to have the language and culture component in the department. It helps us to strengthen the ties between language and culture in K to 12 schooling, and it helps us to make sure the college is aware of the importance of language and culture, too, and helps us to work with them to strengthen the Aboriginal Language and Culture Instructors Program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

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Supplementary To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. I hope you cheered for Tulita and Norman Wells this weekend here. Mr. Speaker, I was really happy to see that the honourable Members here dressed up in the clothes for today. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, would the Minister consider formalizing an elders' advisory group or council, along with the consideration of the split of the department into culture, language and heritage? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that we have an elders' council that works with the Minister for Health and Social Services right now. Right now, we have, providing advice for the department, an Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Board, as well as an Official Languages Board. They provide us with advice and recommendations as to how we should move in the area of official languages.

We work with stakeholders from across the Territories, the divisional education councils, and we talk with them about how we need to involve language and culture in the schools. I think right now, we are already listening to people -- the stakeholders across the Territories -- about how we should address these issues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister then, in terms of utilizing the elders...I know some of the elders are on pension and some are on income support. However, when you utilize the elders, sometime they get penalized for their services in the form of compensation. Would the Minister overlook or give special consideration to the elders when they use their services in terms of helping us shape our government for the future and giving them some flexibility on these types of payments? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member knows, we have embarked on a process whereby we are re-examining our income security programs. As we go through them, we will have to examine all of the rules and regulations for how income is treated, and I will certainly make sure this is one of the areas that comes up for discussion. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Question 426-15(4): Consideration For Department Of Heritage, Culture And Language

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of ITI . I see that the BIP has reared its ugly head again and we need to address it once again, Mr. Speaker.

At the beginning, I was amenable to the suggestion that we might want to do away with the BIP and replace it with a two percent small tax cut. Since then, I am hearing that a lot of companies in the North don't make enough money actually to benefit from a tax cut. If they could pay their expenses and wages and break even, for lots of companies that's doing well. So they will not see the benefit of it.

The other thing is that in many other ways, BIP is an important aspect of doing business in the North for many companies. I was thinking about the potential for the Novel housing where there is a lot of money to be spent in the North and the government is promising that this is going to happen. I would like to know, then, without the BIP, would the companies that might bid on buying the units, or fixing the units, or doing the roadwork, how would they benefit from that if they don't have the benefit of being BIP status? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1130

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last question first and I guess it's hypothetical. We know that it's the Mackenzie gas project that's supplying housing. I have never heard that the Mackenzie gas project intends to administer the BIP or talk about which companies are BIP registered that have any

bearing or any effect on their procurement. So it isn't this government buying housing. I think that makes it pretty clear as to what effect the BIP might have on a project of that nature. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister said last question first and then he didn't deal with the rest of them, and then he misunderstood the question that he answered, Mr. Speaker.

Let me tell you this, the Minister of Finance , Housing and everybody has been saying that this $500 million investment into the North with Novel housing is a lifetime opportunity and there will be a lot of spin-offs. One of the spin-offs is northern labour and northern training. I want to know how can the companies stand to bid for these contracts without the BIP process, and will the Minister do an analysis of the impact of getting rid of BIP on these contracts? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's difficult to know exactly where the Member is going with this question. I am not sure what bearing the BIP would have on this process. If the government was procuring something, then BIP would apply. Even with BIP application, we don't restrict southern companies, or Yukon companies, or Nunavut companies from bidding. They simply get the benefit of an added premium of 15 percent or 20 percent if the local allowance is included.

Mr. Speaker, I think it's important to keep in mind on $200 million worth of procurement last year by this government, there was a $200,000 some odd, in around there, BIP premium paid to northern companies. The reality is what you have, especially in the bigger centres, you have two, three or four BIP registered companies bidding against each other and the BIP is moot. It really doesn't come into play. So what we have found is on $200 million on procurement, $200,000 premium paid out. It isn't doing much and it's only having a bearing on government procurement.

Let's talk about a benefit or incentive to all businesses in the North regardless of who they are doing business with, and that's what a tax cut would do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to have to suggest that the Minister and Cabinet get themselves Olympic-strength skis to keep up with Members on this side, instead of running shoes.

---Laughter

They are so far behind the ball. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Housing and everybody has been talking about at least $200 million out of this $500 million project is going to be spent in the North for northern businesses and northern labour in developing lots, converting whatever, electrical, everything. I want to know how are the northern companies going to be able to apply for contracts without BIP. What other plans do they have? What his answer tells me is they haven't even looked at this question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How advanced are they on this topic?

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Supplementary To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Question 427-15(4): Incentives For Northern Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1131

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hypothetically, if the Novel project goes ahead and is on the ground and we are talking about conversion, after the fact, into much needed housing, public and private sector stock in our communities, hypothetically, if then we are talking about that work being done, the BIP would only be relevant if we decided to go to a straight tender. If we do a negotiated contract with an aboriginal joint venture or an aboriginal corporation, if we go out to request for proposals, we can take into account northern benefits as part of the benefit package we would score.

So only if we so narrowly scope this and decide that it's tender only would the BIP even be relevant. Mr. Speaker, I think there is a lot of room here to make sure