Debates of Feb. 21st, 2002

This is page numbers 49 - 88 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was health .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Rollback Of Retail Fuel Prices

Reinvestment Into Income Support Programs

Health And Social Services Action Plan 2002-2005

Renewable Energy Technology

Diand Oil And Gas Positions

Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Addictions Treatment Facility For The North Slave Region

Affordable Housing For Small Communities

Traditional Knowledge

Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Training For Drug And Alcohol Counsellors

Legislative Pages From Inuvik

Third Annual Youth Parliament

Committee Report 1-14(5): Standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

introduction

government-wide Issues

national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

recommendation 1

student Support Services

caucus Priorities For Housing

other Government-wide Issues

corporate Capital Planning Process

consolidation And Placement Of Energy Initiatives

placement Of Social Agenda

Committee Report 2-14(5): Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

introduction

corporate Capital Planning Process

placement Of New Initiatives Within The Executive

national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

Committee Report 3-14(5): Standing Committee On Social Programs Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Increased Day Care Funding

Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Placement Of Federal Oil And Gas Positions

Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Affordable Housing In Small Communities

Drug And Alcohol Addictions Counsellors

Extended Downpayment Assistance Program

Addictions Facility For The Dogrib Region

Nature Of Impact Benefit Agreements

Lot Development In Tax-based Communities

Harmonization Of Housing And Income Support Programs

Legal Opinion On Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Written Question 1-14(5): Personnel Policies For Excluded Employees

Tabled Document 1-14(5): NWT Health And Social Services System Action Plan 2002-2005

Bill 1: Human Rights Act

Bill 3:

An Act To Amend The Public Service Act

Bill 2: Appropriation Act, 2002-2003

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Telehealth

Information Technology Plan

Edmonton Nurses

Recommendation 1

Board Deficits

Medical Travel

Child Protection Workers

Child Advocate

Southern Placements And Long-term Care

Increase In The Number Of Children In Foster Care

Prevention And Promotion

Access To Healthcare In The Communities

Health Authorities Support

Administration Costs For The Health Authorities

Recommendation 2

Family Violence Prevention Act

Health Funding To The Dene Nation

Item 21: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Mr. McLeod , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen , Honourable Tony Whitford .

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 49

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Oh God, may Your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 49

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Please be seated. Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Steen .

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Minister's Statement 4-14(5): Rollback Of Retail Fuel Prices

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 49

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to announce that the government has decided to roll back the fuel price increase in the 16 communities served by the petroleum products division.

-- Applause

The division's mandate is to provide a secure supply of fuel products in communities where no private company sells fuel. Typically these communities are isolated and only accessible by barge and winter road.

We try to provide fuel on a break-even basis. Costs are recovered through the price charged for fuel. Last summer's fuel prices were higher than the previous year. This increase prompted the government to raise prices in communities by 4.5 cents per litre.

Mr. Speaker, the government made the decision to raise prices last December, but implemented the increase effective February 1, 2002, to avoid increasing people's costs during the Christmas season.

In January, however, the petroleum products division tendered for supply and delivery of petroleum products to communities on the winter road system. Prices received for this resupply reflect the current market price for fuel and are substantially lower than those of last summer. In recognition of these lower prices and in response to discussions with concerned communities and Members of the Assembly, the government took a second look at the situation and agreed to rescind the scheduled increase.

The communities that we serve are small and isolated. The cost of providing fuel is much higher compared to communities located on our highway system. In recognition of this, we will not be increasing fuel prices at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 4-14(5): Rollback Of Retail Fuel Prices

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 49

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Steen . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Ootes .

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Minister's Statement 5-14(5): Reinvestment Into Income Support Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 49

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as outlined by the Minister of Finance yesterday during the Budget Address, this government plans to reinvest $1.5 million into income support programs. I wanted to take some time today and review some of the details of the reinvestment.

Let me start by thanking the Standing Committee on Social Programs...

-- Applause

...for their recommendations on reinvesting this money. Based on our discussions with them, the following areas have been identified.

Increased economic activity throughout the NWT has made it increasingly difficult for single persons to find affordable housing. In response to this, we plan on increasing the single accommodation benefit by 50 percent, bringing the total amount to $750 per month. This will bring the benefit more in line with actual shelter costs while encouraging accommodation sharing and workforce participation.

A second area is the food benefit rate. It is our plan to increase the NWT food benefit rate by $580,000. This represents a 13 percent increase over previous years and provides assistance to those clients that need it the most.

Mr. Speaker, we will increase the disability allowance currently offered to low income, permanently disabled Northerners. The plan is to increase the overall monthly benefit by 33 percent from $225 to $300.

Finally, we plan on investing an additional $100,000 into the seniors' home heating subsidy. The intent of this reinvestment is to increase the income thresholds and thereby allow more seniors and elders in the NWT to become eligible for this popular program. In addition, it is the government's plan to adjust the amount of subsidy on a regional basis, taking into account regional differences of heating seasons.

Mr. Speaker, the changes envisioned here are designed to increase the basic level of assistance provided to low-income Northerners. Through this new investment, the government is sending a clear message that all Northerners will share in the NWT's current prosperity. In addition, we move one step closer towards balancing development and social impacts as envisioned in Towards A Better Tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 5-14(5): Reinvestment Into Income Support Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 50

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister for Health , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 6-14(5): Health And Social Services Action Plan 2002-2005

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 50

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On November 5, 2001, I made a commitment to the Assembly and the people of the NWT to have an action plan within 90 days, mapping out the actions necessary to implement reform of the health and social services system. The Health and Social Services Action Plan 2002-2005 was publicly released on January 16, 2002. Later today, I will be tabling the action plan that we are implementing to make sure that our health and social services continue to meet the needs of all Northerners now and in the future.

The action plan is based on the principles outlined in the department's strategic plan issued in 1998 and reflects the many reports, consultations and studies done over the past eight years. The action plan draws from those studies and clearly outlines what we will do as a system to implement the changes and enhancements identified as important many times over the past decade.

The plan ensures service delivery and decision making are as close to the people being served as possible. At the same time, we clearly realize the need for coordination and cooperation through shared leadership at the territorial level.

Central to the action plan is the development of a Joint Leadership Council comprised of the chairs of each health and social services authority, the deputy minister and myself to serve as stewards of the health and social services system. In our consensus system, this type of shared leadership and planning is critical. It will enable us to provide the clearest direction to the system we are responsible for and realize economies of scale in the many critical areas of health and social services that affect us all.

The action plan has 45 actions contained within five broad strategies to address these issues and develop a sustainable and healthy system:

• improved services to people -- which recognizes our primary obligations to provide quality service to individuals and families;

• improved support to staff;

• improved system-wide management;

• improved support to trustees;

• improved system-wide accountability.

Since the action plan was completed ahead of schedule, we have been able to begin working very aggressively to implement the actions outlined in the plan in the five weeks since the plan was released.

• The Joint Leadership Council has met to begin to prioritize and address the issues of system-wide coordination and collaboration, with the issue of recruitment and retention of staff being identified as the number one priority.

• Authority and departmental staff have been working together extensively to develop implementation plans for each of the actions.

• I have continued to meet with professional organizations to get their feedback and advice as to how to proceed with the action plan and how they may be directly involved.

• I have met with the Hay River Community Health Board staff, and a working group has been established to address their concerns and interests related to the transition to becoming GNWT employees.

• I have met with the leadership, community members and staff in Fort Resolution and Lutselk'e, and working groups have been established to develop plans to improve support and enhance services for the residents of these two communities.

This plan, for which we will be accountable on an ongoing basis, lays out a plan of action over the next three years with aggressive implementation time lines. Through this plan, it is our intention to make the long-term sustainability of our system a reality. I am committed to report on progress to this Assembly and to the public. I plan to bring forward updates on a regular basis to ensure that we are all aware of the status and the results of each action.

Since I became Minister, I have placed a priority on meeting with health and social services authorities, community leaders and professional associations to discuss how best to proceed. I really appreciate the response from those with whom I have met. They have provided excellent advice and I have committed to continue meeting and consulting with them as we move forward to implement the plan.

I would like to thank the Joint Leadership Council for their support in the development of this plan, members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs for their feedback, and professional associations and health and social services staff for their expertise and input.

In closing, I would like to say that I believe we have learned a valuable lesson over the past eight years of studying and consulting. That lesson for me is that we have a tremendous system of health and social service delivery across the North. It needs constant care, attention and renewal on an ongoing basis. What is being proposed here today will allow us to improve our system of service delivery for the people of the North in just that way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 6-14(5): Health And Social Services Action Plan 2002-2005

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 51

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Renewable Energy Technology

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 51

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we begin this budget session, I wish to bring the government's attention to an opportunity for long-term savings through our capital construction program. People in the North are particularly concerned about energy and the environment. There is a need in the Northwest Territories for our own energy strategy. We know, as noted by the Minister of Finance in his budget address yesterday, that we will be seeing a strategy put forward by next summer.

Mr. Speaker, there are actions we can take now to save energy and be more environmentally friendly. Our government has major capital construction projects planned and underway and I want to ask the government to act now in reaping energy savings. As a positive example of this, I learned that the young offender's facility under construction in Inuvik now will incorporate a solar wall in its construction. This is a good start but much more can be done.

Savings can be achieved through the use of proven renewable energy technology. Things like wind, mini-hydro and solar are technologies that do not just save money, Mr. Speaker, they also help cut greenhouse gas emissions. That is something that this government is committed to reducing.

I think we are shortsighted in our project planning criteria. This is because when we tend to plan for the budgets to build these facilities, we do not plan for their long-term operational costs. Here is where the up-front cost of putting in the technology, while it may be high, will have those financial and environmental paybacks in the future.

I think our policy should be that proven renewable energy technologies will be designed into all construction, Mr. Speaker, and I am calling for all of these technologies to be included in the original cost framework of facilities we are planning. I will be asking the Minister to make this a mandatory requirement on all of our future GNWT construction contracts.

This government can and should be demonstrating leadership in the use of renewable energy technology and capital construction programs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Renewable Energy Technology

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 51

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Diand Oil And Gas Positions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 51

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, you may recall that some time ago, I referred to Yellowknife as a giant vacuum cleaner and that this government was the motor that drove it. As an update, Mr. Speaker, it appears that the vacuum cleaner may be in trouble. The main container is full to capacity and the exhaust is practically plugged. Now the government is being called upon to become the repairman.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that all residents of the Northwest Territories have been inundated with the news reports of the housing crisis and the zero vacancy rates in Yellowknife. I am quite sure, Mr. Speaker, that some of this is the result of this government's focus on staffing existing and new positions at the headquarters here in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, this government has stated many times that regional capacity building is high on its list of priorities. I am sure that my fellow colleagues from outside of Yellowknife would agree with me when I say that it is difficult to see any instances of this when so many government jobs are being posted in Yellowknife.

I speak not only of the territorial government, Mr. Speaker, but the federal government is guilty of this practice also. On February 6th, CBC Radio reported that the federal government says it will be at least three months before it knows how many civil servants to hire in response to the increasing activity in the oil and gas sector.

Mr. Speaker, the news report goes on to state that the positions include regulatory monitoring and technical experts, an oil and gas advisor and the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs stated that the first phase of this increase would mean under 20 jobs. If the Mackenzie Valley pipeline is approved, as many as 50 jobs could be eventually created.

The federal government has stated that they are considering Yellowknife as the location for these jobs. Mr. Speaker, this gives me cause for great concern. If the pipeline is built, it will not be built anywhere remotely close to Yellowknife. I can think of no reason whatsoever why these jobs would need to be located in Yellowknife, other than to bolster the already overgrown number of public sector jobs located here in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot stress enough that we as a government should continue to do more to consider alternatives to have the vast majority of government jobs located in Yellowknife. If you speak to anyone in the regions outside of Yellowknife, Mr. Speaker, the public perception is that the headquarters of government departments in Yellowknife are far too top-heavy.

Mr. Speaker, I intend to continue to fully address this issue with my colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Diand Oil And Gas Positions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 51

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 51

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday in my question to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , I spoke about impact benefit agreements and how some chiefs and councils are using the financial compensation they receive from resource companies such as Diavik and BHP, and give that to their members. Now, that portion of funds that has been given to their members has been clawed back by this government on the notion that it is an unearned income.

My understanding of the impact benefit agreements -- and I am going to be probing the appropriate Minister to find what their understanding is -- is that it is compensation for loss of resources and the use of land. If that is the case, Mr. Speaker, compensation that our First Nations across the Territories are negotiating with federal government in terms of land claims, if they decide to pay some of that compensation dollars to their members, is this government going to be clawing back that portion from those income support recipients? I will be probing this line of thought with the appropriate Minister this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 52

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Addictions Treatment Facility For The North Slave Region

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 52

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From what I have seen, there are no plans for healing centres or plans for addictions prevention, especially in the North Slave. With all of the economic activities going on, we need a proper addictions or healing centre in the North Slave, Mr. Speaker. We need this to deal with the ongoing addictions and all of the problems that go with economic development.

Mr. Speaker, in the news, we have heard about addictions in the Beaufort-Delta communities and how a lack of counselling services makes it difficult for people with addictions to keep their jobs. Addictions affect our northern economy and it has devastating social consequences, as well as other effects.

The lack of treatment and prevention facilities effects everyone in the North, whether it is someone on the verge of asking for help to relatives who try to cope with a dependent loved one, or their children who suffer and may have a high risk of becoming addicted themselves in their life.

We see the effects of alcohol and drug addiction in everyday life and it is a disturbing sight. These people need support and they need help with healing and prevention in their own languages. If they do not receive help in their own languages, then they are just going to a dry-out centre and no healing is taking place, Mr. Speaker.

In my communities, we have the Dogrib Communities Services Board with addictions counsellors. They need a physical space or facility to call their own. On February 22, 2000, nearly two years ago, I addressed this. At that time, I tabled a petition supporting treatment for alcohol and drug addictions.

Mr. Speaker, as you can see, this has been an ongoing concern of mine and of my constituents as well.

We want to see strong and healthy families in our northern communities, Mr. Speaker. If we want to see our people proud of their aboriginal beliefs and spirituality, then we need to address alcohol, drugs and other addictions.

We can do that by having a proper, designated addictions building in the North Slave, not just a slap-dash sprinkling of counsellors parachuted in and operating out of other facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Addictions Treatment Facility For The North Slave Region

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 52

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Affordable Housing For Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 52

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently the government announced that the NWT Housing Corporation would receive additional funding from the federal government to spend over the next five years to increase the amount of affordable housing in the Northwest Territories. In the media interview, NWT Housing Corporation representative explained that some money has already been set aside for Yellowknife, Hay River and Inuvik, where it is determined housing difficulties are most notable.

Furthermore, the representative from the Housing Corporation stated that private market enterprise has been working to identify housing solutions in Yellowknife for many years and it would be unfair for a government agency to jump into the market at precisely the time when the private sector can develop opportunities for expansion.

Mr. Speaker, this new funding should focus on the smaller or non-market communities. Market forces such as supply and demand can take care of our larger centres because in those communities there is a large private sector. These regional centres could stand on their own, especially when it comes to development or more affordable housing.

Walk down the street here in Yellowknife, Mr. Speaker, and you can find a number of developers ready to build. In most of our smaller communities, this is not possible. There, we have a shortage of private industry, housing, infrastructure, financial as well as human resources. It is there we must devote most of our attention.

Mr. Speaker, decent, affordable homes have a major impact on the quality of our lives -- not only in terms of improving health and education achievement, but also in strengthening our communities for everyone. On February 15, 2002, our Prime Minister, in his speech at the Team Canada luncheon in Moscow, stated:

"We will continue to make strategic investments that contribute to building our long-term economic strength, building an advanced infrastructure of knowledge and skills for our people."

I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that in order to have that advanced infrastructure that the Prime Minister referred to, we must first begin with the basics. One of these basics is affordable housing -- affordable housing for all of our smaller communities in the North, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Affordable Housing For Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 52

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Traditional Knowledge

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 52

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to speak on an issue that is important to many residents of the Northwest Territories. It is in the area of traditional knowledge.

Mr. Speaker, it has been a while since this government has endorsed the idea of traditional knowledge and started to incorporate so-called traditional knowledge into programs and services delivered by this government.

Mr. Speaker, it is important that we recognize the history of the peoples in the North and incorporate some of those teachings into today's schools and younger children, and incorporate some of those practices of the past that would make sense today.

Mr. Speaker, it is also a concern of mine that within traditional knowledge, or the heading of traditional knowledge, we are now incorporating traditions that are from outside the aboriginal peoples of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I speak in particular about the community of Inuvik, where I have heard from a number of constituents that in fact, traditional knowledge is now being practiced in the community and they are bringing new ideas to the people.

New to them because, Mr. Speaker, when you talk with parents and grandparents of the Inuvialuit and the groups in the northern part of the Northwest Territories, some of these practices are foreign to them. They are not part of the teachings they grew up with and were raised to understand. In fact, in some cases, it opens a whole realm of spirituality that is again foreign to their idea of what traditional knowledge is, or healing, as it is being called in some cases.

Mr. Speaker, it is important that we leave doors open to those involved in the healing process to make choices -- those who need the services to be able to access services, that they can understand and feel that they are being helped by.

Mr. Speaker, I am also concerned that -- and in fact, it has been said that new facilities going up in the Northwest Territories are being somewhat restrictive in the area of healing that might be provided.

Mr. Speaker, it is time that this government learns from the past and does not make the same mistakes of trying to put on something that sounds good but does not quite fit, but make everybody take the program.

I think, Mr. Speaker, as we enter into this session, it is something I will be paying attention to and have a number of questions for the appropriate Ministers. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Traditional Knowledge

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 53

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 53

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too have a major concern with the Social Assistance Act, especially with the clawbacks for benefit agreements, and also socio-economic agreements and land claim agreements.

We have obligations in land claim agreements. We have treaties that have been in place for over 100 years in the Territories. These agreements, for a lot of people, have a lot of significance. Yet, Mr. Speaker, we as a government seem to have a double-edged sword here.

On one hand, we are telling aboriginal groups, aboriginal organizations to negotiate, settle your land claims, get your agreements in place, allow for development to take place through socio-economic benefit agreements.

Then on the other hand, we are taking back the same benefits that we are telling them to go get to help their people thrive and take advantage of those developments.

Mr. Speaker, this act allows for exemptions to take place. There are two clauses -- one refers to treaty payments and another clause refers to the value of any goods received in accordance with the provisions of the Inuvialuit final agreement and any other land claim agreement.

I would like to see, is there a possibility of making an exemption to allow for those other types of agreements, similar to land claim agreements, such as the socio-economic benefit agreements that are being signed? Those are agreements between First Nations governments. First Nations governments have tax exempt status. They had the right to provide programs and services like this government here.

Why are we penalizing the same people they represent in their communities and in their regions for receiving benefits? Mr. Speaker, I for one have a real problem trying to understand this government. On one hand, we are talking to the First Nations governments on negotiating a Northern Accord to ensure that we receive royalties from Ottawa. Is that the next pot that we are going to be clawing back? Go out there and get the royalties to the Northwest Territories so this government can claw it back?

Is this the practice that we are putting in place, the precedents that we are setting through this type of bad legislation? I feel that this government, this Ministry should make some attempts to allow us to see the legal opinion that was received by this government.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 53

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Krutko .

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Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 53

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we heard from the Minister, he has a legal opinion on this matter. If it is at a point where we are receiving legal opinions which are being kept in-house by Cabinet, not released to the Members here in the House or to First Nations governments to judge for themselves and review that legal opinion and see where there are problems or loopholes in that legal agreement, which could either resolve this issue or ensure we find ways of making this agreement so that it is workable. Right now, it is not workable. I will be asking the Minister responsible for income support questions on this matter. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Clawback Of Impact Benefit Agreement Payments

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 54

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Training For Drug And Alcohol Counsellors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 54

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that we are all aware of the enormous financial, social and human costs in the Northwest Territories as a result of drug and alcohol addictions. Domestic violence, child abuse, neglect, family dysfunction are all symptomatic of our extensive addictions issues.

The effects of addictions are pervasive and impact our levels of spending in health and social services, justice, housing and education. Mr. Speaker, drug and alcohol counsellors in our communities are vitally important to the treatment and healing of people with addictions. When you go to the doctor or nurse with a broken arm, you know the qualifications of the person treating you. However, when you go to a counsellor with a broken relationship or a broken lifestyle, there is now no standardized level of education or training required to have been achieved by that person.

People tend to be very vulnerable when they are seeking or requiring this type of help. I am certain that most drug and alcohol counsellors in the Northwest Territories are very dedicated individuals. However, even the best of intentions is not a substitute for counselling if they do not have the proper and current qualifications and training to perform the job.

Misguided advice in this field can be very harmful, just as misdiagnosis or mis-prescription of treatment can cause harm in the medical field. With the prospect of people at risk of hurting themselves or others, this government must do everything it can to ensure that the services provided to our people is professional and regulated by adequate legislation.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs had a very effective presentation from Anne McGuire Smith on this very topic. Mr. Speaker, drug and alcohol counsellors themselves want to be supported by legislation that will ensure that they are protected by a professional conduct process in case of allegations, they need to have a standard pay grid established to ensure fair remuneration.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, drug and alcohol counsellors need to have opportunities established for them to further their education and professional development in their field. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Training For Drug And Alcohol Counsellors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 54

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Legislative Pages From Inuvik

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 54

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to take this opportunity to profile the two pages working in the Assembly this week from my riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes. These two fine young persons are Dwayne Dresher and Rennie Edwards.

Dwayne attends Samuel Hearne Secondary School in Inuvik. He is also very active in sports. He participated in the territorials for the biathlon and will be heading to Quebec City. He will also be participating in the 2002 Arctic Winter Games in Greenland for soccer and he is a master corporal in the army cadets.

The young lady, Rennie, also attends Samuel Hearne Secondary School. She belongs to the youth group in Inuvik, which does a variety of volunteer work at Ingamo Hall. During the summer, Rennie also works as a camp counsellor at the summer day camp in Inuvik.

Mr. Speaker, when these two young pages were asked why they wanted to come and page, they replied it would look good on their resumes. Mr. Speaker, this makes me very proud to see our youth thinking and acting on their future. I hope they will continue to pursue their personal goals.

I wish both Dwayne and Rennie the best of luck, especially to Dwayne who will be participating in the Arctic Winter Games, and to Rennie in your wish to become a businessperson someday. I would like to thank both of them for coming here and working with us. As you know, pages play a key role in aiding in the communication amongst the Members while they are sitting in this House.

I would also like to thank their chaperone, Eileen Edwards, for her assistance to all the pages. Thank you for the excellent job. I would like to say thank you to the staff of the Legislative Assembly, who continue to make this page program a success. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Legislative Pages From Inuvik

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 54

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Third Annual Youth Parliament

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 54

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand today as MLA for Nahendeh to speak about our youth who participated in the Third Annual Youth Parliament here in our Legislative Assembly. I would like to congratulate all of the youth participants from throughout the North who attended this event. I would like to thank the organizers for this. I would like to say that I am very proud of my representative, Courtney Squirrel from Fort Simpson, who was a very enthusiastic participant to this Youth Parliament.

I called her and I asked her to do a Member's statement for me, and she writes:

Mr. Speaker, from February 3rd to the 8th I attended the Third Annual Youth Parliament in Yellowknife, Northwest Territories. During my stay in Yellowknife, I met and befriended new people. I also learned and experienced a lot of new and interesting facts about our government and how it works.

In Yellowknife, I had the privilege to spend a week at the Legislative Assembly and worked with the MLAs and coordinators of the Youth Parliament. While at the Legislative Assembly building, myself and 18 other students were taken on a tour of the building and learned about the different rooms and the different areas of the building.

My day spent at the Legislative Assembly building, I participated in a variety of activities, such as Cabinet meetings with members of my staff, rehearsal in the Chamber and the actual time spent in the Chamber. We did not spend all of our time at the Legislative Assembly building. The coordinators had activities scheduled for us prior to our arrival. We played soccer, we watched movies, went shopping, toured Yellowknife and the military and had dinner at the Northern Headquarters of National Defence, which was a privilege and was very enjoyable.

While I was in Yellowknife I enjoyed every minute in Yellowknife during the week of the Youth Parliament. It was a very educational experience. I would like to thank everyone responsible for making it happen. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

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Third Annual Youth Parliament

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 55

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Dent .

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Committee Report 1-14(5): Standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I would like to present the Report on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates.

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introduction

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

The Standing Committees of Accountability and Oversight, Governance and Economic Development, and Social Programs all participate in the review of the government's business plans and main estimates. The committees met from January 14, 2002 to January 25, 2002 to review the 2002-2003 draft main estimates for the Government of the Northwest Territories.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight is comprised of all Regular Members. The committee prepares a report dealing with issues that are government-wide in nature, which were identified by the Standing Committees on Governance and Economic Development and Social Programs. The issues identified in the next

section of the report are government-wide in nature and were brought forward to this committee for further study and discussion.

Total operations expenses for the government increased from $833,642,000 proposed in 2002-2003 business plans to $851,673,000 proposed in the draft 2002-2003 main estimates. This represents an increase of $18,031,000. Total capital expenditures for the government declined from $131,928,000 proposed in its business plans to $108,852,000 proposed in its draft main estimates, representing a decrease of $23,076,000. A major portion of this reduction is due to the cancellation of the original Highway Investment Strategy and the transfer of infrastructure contributions from capital expenditures to operations expense as the result of the revised accounting process for capital.

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government-wide Issues

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

On January 30, 2002, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight took the opportunity to follow-up on several issues arising from its review of the 2002-2003 main estimates with the government. Three issues were felt to warrant a letter to the government from the committee requesting changes be made before the main estimates were presented in the House. These issues included the National Aboriginal Day and Living History Project, Student Support Services and Caucus Priorities for Housing.

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national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

During the review of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs, the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development noted a proposed $1,000,000 expenditure for a combined National Aboriginal Day celebration and pre-celebration events co-ordinated under the Living History Project.

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development had a number of concerns about these projects and brought them to the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight for review. The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight agreed with these concerns, which are outlined as follows.

Members could not understand why the two initiatives were linked in the same line item in the main estimates, nor why funding for the Living History Project would fall under the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. Combining the two makes it more difficult for Members and the public to understand the amounts proposed to be spent on either project. It also makes it difficult for Members to evaluate each of the projects without the inference that concern with one of the projects impacts on the other.

Members of the committee were concerned by the lack of detail on the proposed activities for the Living History Project. Aside from the brief outline of initiatives planned by this society in the main estimates, Members were disappointed to see no formal proposal for the funding requested. Members want to see an outline of the society's mandate and goals, an analysis of other funds received by the project from various private corporations and the federal government, and other relevant material to establish the organization's value and substance.

Members were also concerned that there had been no notice in the business plans that significant funding would be requested for this non-profit organization. Members noted the project has already received funding of $40,000 for start-up costs, and the draft main estimates requested a further $500,000. We were told this new funding was for pre-National Aboriginal Day celebration events, including a symposium and a review of the history of the past 25 years of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

By adding the funding for this organization to the main estimates without going through the business planning process, some Members wondered if we might be accused of preferential treatment for this group when other non-government organizations have to follow a much more rigorous process to acquire government funds.

Without seeing long-term plans, Members were further concerned that funding for this organization may become ongoing.

As noted above, committee was concerned with funding for the Living History Project falling under the auspices of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment is responsible for most grants and contributions offered to cultural or historical organizations.

Committee felt the government should address these concerns before the Legislative Assembly considered funding for the Living History Project. We advised the Minister of Finance by letter that the proposed funding should be removed from the main estimates, and that any proposal for funding should come forward as part of a supplementary estimate when our concerns had been addressed.

Members of the committee are pleased to see that the department addressed one of the concerns stated above and has supplied information showing that the budget items of National Aboriginal Day and the Living History Project have now been separated. However, in light of the concerns previously stated by the committee, we make the following recommendation:

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recommendation 1

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight recommends that the funding for the Living History project be removed from the 2002-2003 Main Estimates.

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student Support Services

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Committee members noted that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, or ECE, had included $2,726,000 in the 2002-2003 draft main estimates to reduce the pupil/teacher ratio (PTR) to 16:1 and to increase student support services to 14 percent in 2002-2003.

The committee noted that the department is ahead of its legislated requirement to reduce the PTR levels in NWT schools and on target for the legislated student support increases for 2002-2003. Committee pointed out the positive results of increasing direct support to students in need in the classroom. Based on the financial information provided during the review of the business plans and the draft main estimates, committee members asked the Minister to consider taking $900,000 from the PTR and advancing the final installment of the student support services to reach 15 percent in this fiscal year.

This would leave the balance of $1,826,000 to apply to PTR in 2002-2003. The PTR would then be topped up in its final year by $900,000 to meet the legislated target of 16:1 in 2002-2004.

In the government's response to the committee's request, it became clear that the financial information presented to the committee on the split of the $2,726,000 during the business plan review and draft main estimate review was wrong. The department now states that $1,600,000 was to be used to increase student support services to 14 percent and that the remaining $1,126,000 was to be used to reduce the PTR. Subsequently, the department's initial estimate of $900,000 to implement the 15 percent student support services was revised to encompass the entire $1,126,000.

Regardless of any misunderstanding, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight was pleased that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment agreed to the committee's request and that the funding for student support services will be increased to 15 percent in 2002-2003, a full year in advance of the legislated requirement.

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caucus Priorities For Housing

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 55

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

In the government's response to committee's concern that the main estimates do not reflect Caucus priorities, it is stated that the government is currently developing initiatives to support private development of housing in non-taxed based communities.

Mr. Speaker, the committee will watch to see whether the initiatives under development are relevant and will encourage private developers to invest in the non-taxed based communities.

Mr. Speaker, I now seek your consent to ask the honourable Member for Hay River South to conclude the report.

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caucus Priorities For Housing

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 56

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen , to conclude the report.

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caucus Priorities For Housing

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 56

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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other Government-wide Issues

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 56

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight also discussed and evaluated the following government-wide issues. These issues include the corporate capital planning process, the consolidation and placement of energy initiatives and the placement of the social agenda.

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corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 56

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

A responsive and equitable capital planning process is essential for effective community capacity development and maintenance. A new capital planning process, referred to as the corporate capital planning process, which I will just refer to as CCP after this, was announced by the government during the review of its draft 2002-2005 business plans by the standing committees. The development and adoption of the CCP by the government was done without consultation with the Regular Members.

The CCP is based on a primary rating criteria which prioritizes capital projects in the following order:

• protection of people;

• protection of assets;

• protection of the environment;

• financial investment considerations; and

• program needs or requirements.

A capital review committee, comprised of deputy ministers, determines which projects are chosen based upon this prioritization model. However, committee members concurred with comments made by the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development in its review of the 2002-2005 draft business plans that this new capital planning process "may leave communities and Regular Members without effective input" and furthermore, that "these criteria, especially the protection of people, may lead to projects from larger centres being placed before the needs of smaller communities."

As a result, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight in its review of the 2002-2005 business plans, recommended the re-introduction of the notification letter from the Premier to each Member and community informing them of the capital plan for their community.

The government agreed and informed the committee that the letter of notification process will be implemented during the preparation of the 2003-2004 main estimates.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight remains concerned about the implementation of the CCP and looks forward to a debate on this issue on the floor of the House.

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consolidation And Placement Of Energy Initiatives

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 56

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development had expressed concern that a number of new energy initiatives have been placed within departments that do not have the proper mandate for such programs and this appears to be duplicating efforts. The Hydro Unit has remained within FMBS and the Energy Secretariat has remained within the Executive Offices under the Cabinet Secretariat. Committee members suggested that a better coordination of efforts would result in greater efficiencies and better results.

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development is of the opinion that this issue has government-wide implications and as such, referred the issue to the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight for further discussion by all Regular Members.

After detailed discussion, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight in its review of the 2002-2005 draft business plans, recommended initiatives be placed within the most relevant department rather than within the department of convenience.

The government, in a recent information package submitted to the committee, replied that the placements of the energy and social agenda initiatives are currently under review. However, the draft main estimates still show that the placement of these initiatives has not changed.

In a letter to the Minister of Finance , dated January 11, 2002, the committee stated that:

During Committee of the Whole Consideration of Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act No. 2, 2001-2002 on November 5, 2001, the Premier made the following statement and commitment to the Members:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have had a discussion with some members of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight earlier today. They had said they were concerned about having the Energy Secretariat by itself in the Department of the Executive and seeing different elements of initiatives and interests within the government in different departments. I will look at making an announcement to address that. We will specifically look at moving the Energy Secretariat out of the Department of the Executive. That will be done within the next couple of days.

That is from Hansard, page 654. Further, the committee asked "would you please provide the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight an explanation as to why the 2002-2003 draft main estimates do not appear to reflect the commitments made by the government?"

To date the committee has not received a written explanation. However, during the review of the draft 2002-2003 main estimates for the Executive Offices, the Premier advised the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development that he would bring forward option papers on the placement and consolidation of energy initiatives during the February session.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight looks forward to receiving and reviewing the government's option papers on the delivery, consolidation and placement of its energy initiatives and environmental responsibilities. We trust the government will be able to provide the option papers to the committee in the next few weeks.

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placement Of Social Agenda

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 56

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

As the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development reviewed the Department of the Executive's main estimates, the chairperson noted that the placement of the social agenda within the Executive paved the way for considerable discussion of social issues and problems that should fall under the mandate of the Standing Committee on Social Programs.

The committee was also of the opinion that there does not appear to be a clear coordination between the Department of Health and Social Services and the Social Agenda Working Group. While Health and Social Services has just recently announced its action plan, the Social Agenda Working Group plans to release its recommendations at the end of February. The committee would like to be assured that the expenditure of over $475,000 towards the working group has been worthwhile and their recommendations will be considered in the department's plans.

Given the committee's concerns and the fact that their suggestion for the removal of the Social Agenda from the Department of the Executive during the business plan report was not heeded, the committee brought the matter to the attention of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight examined the expanding mandate of the Executive Offices. Given the cross-departmental nature of the social agenda and other initiatives like Maximizing Northern Employment, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight will be proposing an amendment to the Rules of the Legislative Assembly to include the Executive Offices within the standing committee's mandate.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight on the review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates. Therefore,

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake , that Committee Report 1-14(5) be received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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placement Of Social Agenda

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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placement Of Social Agenda

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4) and have Committee Report 1-14(5) moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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placement Of Social Agenda

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4). Are there any nays? There are no nays. Therefore, Committee Report 1-14(5) is moved into committee of the whole for today. Item 5, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Committee Report 2-14(5): Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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introduction

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development met from January 14 to January 25, 2002 to review the 2002-2003 Draft Main Estimates. The GED envelope includes the following departments, the Executive, the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs, the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Finance, Public Works and Services, Municipal and Community Affairs, Transportation, and Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development.

General Comments

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corporate Capital Planning Process

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

The government informed the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight about its new corporate capital planning process on September 25, 2001. The process was developed and implemented without input or approval from the Regular Members.

With the new corporate capital planning process, or CCP, there is only one government capital target, with all departmental projects competing for the same pool of available funding. Proposed capital projects are placed within a primary rating criteria in the following priority:

• protection of people;

• protection of assets;

• protection of the environment;

• financial investment; and

• program need or requirement.

Each project is then considered against a secondary criteria comprised of the following factors:

• scale of impact;

• severity of impact if the project is not completed;

• urgency of the project; and

• the ability to mitigate.

The evaluation process is done by a Capital Review Committee made up of deputy ministers. It is the Capital Review Committee that determines which project would be chosen based on the new capital prioritization model.

Committee members are concerned that as more responsibilities are transferred to the municipal level, the ability of communities to obtain the necessary infrastructure, human resources and funding to ensure the safe and effective delivery of local programs and services have become increasingly difficult.

Committee members note that since the CCP's first priority is the protection of people, projects in larger, more populous communities would almost always obtain funding at the expense of smaller and less populous communities.

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development is of the position that any capital planning process must also take into account essential programs and services such as health, safety and other priorities in the smaller communities. Committee members pointed out that these communities, because of their smaller population, isolation and high operating costs, have less financial and infrastructure capacity to deliver programs and services efficiently, effectively and economically than their larger counterparts. Furthermore, in many of the smaller communities, capital projects funded by the government are often the only source of employment.

The committee first brought attention to this issue during its review of the government's 2002-2005 draft business plans and referred it to the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight to allow for further input from all Regular Members. The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight recommended that the government re-instate the letter of notification from the Premier to each Member, informing him or her of any changes to the capital plan in their riding. The government subsequently agreed and advised all the Members that the notification letter protocol would be implemented during the preparation of the 2003-2004 main estimates.

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placement Of New Initiatives Within The Executive

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

As stated in the business plans, the committee continues to have significant reservations about the placement of new initiatives in non-service delivery departments. Specifically, the placement of the Energy Secretariat and the Social Action Working Group within the responsibility of the Department of the Executive appears to be at odds with the department's mandate.

The placement of specific initiatives within departments that are not focused on that particular area of expertise may lead to confusion both between departments and between standing committees of the Legislative Assembly that must evaluate the programs.

The committee continues to assert that new initiatives should be placed within the most relevant department in order to ensure consistency and non-duplication of efforts.

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national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 58

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

During the review of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs, the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development noted a proposed $1,000,000 expenditure for a combined National Aboriginal Day celebration and pre-celebration events coordinated under the Living History Project. The committee had a number of concerns about this project and brought them to the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight for review.

One of the first problems faced by the committee was a lack of documentation from the society outlining their plans and funding needs. In the absence of such documentation, committee members were unable to ascertain the true value of this project and its need for half a million dollars.

Members also noted that funding for National Aboriginal Day celebrations and the Living History Project were combined in the budget of the ministry, making it difficult to understand funding arrangements between the two. The committee recommended to the department that they split the two projects into separate line items. The department agreed to this request.

Members of the committee were concerned that the funding of one newly formed society for half a million dollars may set an inappropriate precedent for other non-profit agencies approaching the government and expecting similar funding. Members would also like to be assured that the organization has sought funding from other sources and that funding from the GNWT will not be ongoing.

The committee was also confused by the placement of this society's application for funding within the domain of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. It is the committee's understanding that most cultural and historical organizations are funded through the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

Due to these significant concerns, the committee recommended this issue for consideration to the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight.

As a result of both committees' comments on this issue, the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development is aware that there have been significant alterations to the funding proposal on behalf of the Living History Project.

The committee looks forward to addressing these changes during the review of the government's main estimates in the House.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the introductory portion of the report of the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates. Therefore,

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River North , that Committee Report 2-14(5), be received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 59

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? No opposition, therefore the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 59

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4) and have Committee Report 2-14(5) moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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national Aboriginal Day And Living History Project

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 59

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4). Are there any nays? There are no nays, therefore Committee Report 2-14(5) is moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you.

Item 5, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Committee Report 3-14(5): Standing Committee On Social Programs Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 59

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs met from January 14th to January 25th 2002 to review the draft main estimates. The social programs envelope includes the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and Social Services and the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

The committee, in our discussions with the Ministers, raised a number of issues. These discussions resulted in the committee making some specific recommendations. The issues and recommendations will be discussed under the appropriate department, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the introductory portion of the Report of the Standing Committee on Social Programs on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates. Therefore,

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake , that Committee Report 3-14(5) be received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Committee Report 3-14(5): Standing Committee On Social Programs Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? No opposition, therefore the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes the honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Committee Report 3-14(5): Standing Committee On Social Programs Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 60

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4) and have Committee Report 3-14(5) moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Committee Report 3-14(5): Standing Committee On Social Programs Report On The Review Of The 2002-2003 Main Estimates

Item 5: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 93(4). Are there any nays? There are no nays, therefore Committee Report 3-14(5) is moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you.

Item 5, reports of standing and special committees. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Mr. Speaker, yesterday we heard that $1 million would be included in the budget to increase day care support funding. The budget speech noted that this was intended to remove barriers to affordable childcare faced by low-income northern families.

Could the Minister tell us how this $1 million will be spent? Specifically, how much will the per diem O and M contribution to operators increase?

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Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the $1 million will be divided up into two areas. One is for contributions to day cares. That is start up funding and operating funding. That is $780,000.

The $220,000 will be used to increase subsidies to provide for income support and low-income earners. It will be added to provide day care services for the summertime and after hours for those who work shift work, if that is available. Thank you.

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Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister advise us what the per diem rate will increase to? What is it now and what it will increase to on the O and M side, the $780,000? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Yes, Mr. Speaker, it will change. For example, for a preschool space, I will use Yellowknife as an example -- we have other communities where it is higher -- Yellowknife is $5.00 for preschool. That will go to $8.00. Infant space is $7.50 and that will go to $12.00. Space for after school is $1.25 and that will go to $2.00.

Other areas are community-based. I will give an example here of $8.00 to $12.80 and for preschool and infant space from $12.00 to $19.20 and after school $2.00 to $3.20, depending upon the community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This sounds like they are fairly substantial increases and I commend the Minister on this change. Will the methodology of payment change? It has been a substantial problem for operators in that they are only paid on days the child attends. So if a child is sick, they do not get paid for it and that has created a significant amount of problems for them. Will that methodology be changed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is still an outstanding issue which is more an administrative issue. I have not concluded that yet. It has been brought to my attention as an area of concern and I have not yet finalized that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 60

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister commit to advising this House before the end of this current sitting the resolution to this issue that he proposes to take? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be pleased to do so. I also committed two days ago to some other areas with day cares that I will follow up on. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Question 31-14(5): Increased Day Care Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to follow up on a line of questioning from the last couple of days regarding housing and the crunch that we have here in Yellowknife and getting affordable housing supplied to suit the demand that has grown very rapidly in this city. I want to direct my question to the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs . We have been looking for ways where government and private sector can combine and work together to reduce the cost of housing and make it more affordable.

One of the major up-front costs is that of infrastructure; water, sewer, roads and this kind of thing. I wanted to ask the Minster if there is any news he can bring to Yellowknife in terms of what Municipal and Community Affairs might be able to do to assist with infrastructure. Thank you.

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Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, MACA has a very limited program to assist tax-based communities with infrastructure other than for water and sewer programs.

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Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Steen . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, other jurisdictions in Canada, I am familiar with the Yukon, do have a program where the territorial government does assist with the up-front high cost of putting infrastructure in, which then enables private individuals and the private sector to put affordable housing up in a much more expeditious way.

Is there anything preventing this government from looking at putting together that kind of program, not only for Yellowknife but for other communities, especially Inuvik, that are also under a housing shortage? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe there is anything preventing this government and this department from following up on suggestions such as the one that the Member put forward.

I would just like to point out though that MACA, in their policies governing the assistance to communities to develop infrastructure, has policies for land development for non-tax-based communities. The only policies we have as far as assisting tax-based communities is through debentures or financing that this government would put in place, possibly a loan to the city or to the tax-based community at a better rate than the city or the town may obtain directly from the bank.

However, I believe this program is accessible through the Department of Finance via the community. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps at another time I will direct a question to the Minister of Finance , Mr. Speaker. I would like to again press the Minister -- right now, the City of Yellowknife has an accelerated demand for accommodation largely driven by our diamond industry. We are fortunate to have that.

Other communities though up and down the Valley are hopefully going to be in a similar situation when a pipeline happens. We are not an anomaly here. We are part of a trend that I hope is going to continue in the Northwest Territories. Land development will be something that many other communities hopefully will have to deal with.

Can this government commit to looking at something that will be progressive...

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mr. Braden , I am sorry to interrupt but I would limit your

preamble to a question. What is your question?

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will this government commit to looking ahead to the long term to assist all communities in the Northwest Territories with large-scale infrastructure development? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 61

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just recently the department was considering a program whereby we would assist all communities, including tax-based communities, with the development of land lots for residential purposes.

We were doing this in consultation with the Housing Corporation and in cooperation with them as well on what possible programs we could come up with to address this particular issue.

In particular, it was identified that Yellowknife and Inuvik, as far as tax-based communities, were very heavily impacted right now and there was a shortage of lots for residential purposes. However, the program that we put forward to Cabinet and FMB, the decision of Cabinet and FMB was that this program to develop lots, a certain number of lots rather than a whole pile of them, in non-tax-based communities is what we got approval for.

At this point in time we have not followed it up with some kind of proposal to address the issues in the cities, in the larger centres like Inuvik. It was mainly because the thought was there are enough developers in these communities already. It is just a matter of finding funding to assist people to purchase these lots. What was brought forward as one of the major problems was that a lot of these lots were market-driven prices rather than the real price of what it cost to develop them. In some cases, as much as 50 percent more of a markup on the price of the lot.

The government felt that it was a matter of the market taking care of itself. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Steen . I just want to remind Members -- and Ministers, of course -- that oral questions should be short and to the point and responses should be equally short and to the point. Your final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From the Minister's response then, are there discrepancies between the territorial government's approach to infrastructure development and the municipalities' approach to marketing and pricing?

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Supplementary To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe there are any discrepancies between the two. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Question 32-14(5): Yellowknife Housing Infrastructure Requirements

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, following on my Member's statement about traditional knowledge and the practices that are now beginning to be implemented across the Northwest Territories. Although this falls under a number of different departments I am going to go with my first question to the Minister responsible for Justice and find out if, in fact, the practices are changing as new facilities are being built and existing facilities in operation -- if the programs available to constituents of ours that have unfortunately found themselves in these facilities, are those programs specific to receiving help through these new traditional healing practices? Thank you.

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Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Justice, Mr. Allen .

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Return To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I hear the question correctly, there are a number of programs that are being introduced in the context of traditional healing. Sharing circles is one. The use of the drum in other jurisdictions is another. We still profess on the liberty of people's choice for prayer, that is another. There are also areas of sweats and pipe ceremonies. Those are currently some of the typical traditional methods used in the corrections service. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So my understanding then is that the term that has been used is "Christian services" will be available, along with the traditional practices that are now being implemented? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Justice, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I understand that the choice of religion is entrenched in our Canadian Constitution and that will certainly be acknowledged. We anticipate that will continue. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister inform us then that a choice will be available to those that are in the facilities and it is open to them, and it will not look badly on them if they do not pick one over another in those instances? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Justice, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 62

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can assure the Member very succinctly that no individual member who is incarcerated will be obliged to practice outside of what they believe in. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Question 33-14(5): Traditional Healing Practices In The Correctional System

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 63

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 34-14(5): Placement Of Federal Oil And Gas Positions

Item