Debates of Feb. 4th, 1997

This is page numbers 371 - 400 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was federal .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Speaker's Ruling

Decorum And Behaviour During Question Period

Clyde River Housing Shortage

Dust And Air Contaminants In Arctic Bay

"bridges" School Program To Aid Transition To The Labour Market

Public Works Contracting System

Industrious, Hard-working Northerners

Acknowledgement Of Minister's Efforts

NWT Senior's Society Letter To Social Programs Committee

Return To Oral Question 150-13(4): Municipal Liabilities Through Empowerment

Return To Oral Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Mines

Return To Oral Question 137-13(4): List Of Deputy Ministers In The GNWT

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Winter Road Openings

H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Benefits Owing To Seniors

Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Tax-based And Non-tax-based Municipalities

Results Of Student Achievement Tests

Written Question 11-13(4): Community Libraries

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Item 11: Petitions

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Bill 9: Forgiveness Of Debts Act, 1996-97

Bill 10: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1996-97

Bill 11: Loan Authorization Act 1997-98

Referral Of Td 20-13(4) To Committee Of The Whole

Appointment Of Conflict Of Interest Commissioner

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Reconsider Elimination Of Funding For Metis Nation Community Resource Director

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Enuaraq , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Honourable Samuel Gargan , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Honourable Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable John Todd , Honourable Manitok Thompson

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 1: Prayer

Page 371

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq . Good afternoon. I have here a letter from the Commissioner, and it says, "I wish to inform the House that I have received the following message from the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. Dear Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories, the passage of the Forgiveness of Debts Act, 1996-97; Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1996-97; and Loan Authorization Act, 1997-98. during the fourth session of the 13th Legislative Assembly."

It is signed, yours truly, Helen Maksagak, Commissioner. I also have here a Speaker's ruling regarding Mr. O'Brien , January 31, 1997.

Speaker's Ruling

I would like to provide some comments to the House concerning a matter that occurred during oral question period on Friday, January 31, 1997. The matter relates to an oral question that was being asked by the Member for Kivallivik , Mr. O'Brien . The question is contained on pages 546 and 547 of the unedited Hansard. The Member, Mr. O'Brien , was asking his first supplementary question and I quote:

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell the House exactly what revisions and I use that word, that the Minister is looking at regarding these departments".

I listened to Mr. O'Brien 's comments and I thought I heard the word "visions" which in my opinion, made his supplementary question hypothetical so, I reminded the Member of that. The Member then indicated that and I quote:

"Mr. Speaker, I think my question is fairly straightforward."

I would like to point out to the Members that this wording indicated to me that he was challenging my ruling. This of course, is not permitted. I did, after the Minister's response, remind the Members to be a bit clearer when directing questions as what I heard was visions, not revisions. That is why, I made the ruling on the supplementary question being hypothetical. On checking the unedited Hansard, Mr. O'Brien did indeed use the word "revisions". I apologize for the misunderstanding, but at the time, I did hear the word "visions" so I had to base my comments to the Member on that.

So, in the future, if Members will assist the chair and Ministers in clearly pronouncing your words, I will listen intently to your every word as I always do. Based on the words and actions that occurred at the time, it was my ruling that Mr. O'Brien challenged the chair. As all Members know, you cannot challenge the chair, so based on the facts at that time, I would ask Mr. O'Brien to withdraw his comments whereby he challenged the chair. Mr. O'Brien .

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 1: Prayer

Page 371

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with respect to your ruling and your subsequent apology, Mr. Speaker, when I made this statement in the House, it was in the heat of the moment, and also amongst some heckling and catcalls from across the floor. Mr. Speaker, I may have inadvertently challenged the chair. This was not my intention. I have the greatest respect for the chair. Mr. Speaker, if this is the case, I do apologize and withdraw my questionable comments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 1: Prayer

Page 371

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien , this matter is now closed. I have another ruling here regarding Mr. Miltenberger .

Speaker's Ruling

On Monday, February 3, 1997, the Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger , rose on a point of privilege. In his statement, the Member said, and I quote:

"I rise on a point of privilege to clarify, at the first available opportunity, a concern about conflict of interest on my part."

Mr. Miltenberger then went on to state that it is difficult to know when we (referring to Members) can speak. He said, and I quote from page 566 of unedited Hansard:

"If a Member has a wife who owns a business, can he participate in discussions on BIP, which could benefit her financially? If a Member's wife works for a women's shelter, is it alright for him to question the cuts to funding in women's shelters?"

In response to the Member's point of privilege, the Member for Iqaluit , Mr. Picco , rose on his point of privilege, stating, and I quote from page 567 of unedited Hansard:

"The Member mentioned, in a veiled way, my earlier response last year on a question to another Minister concerning spousal shelter homes. Mr. Speaker, he has infringed upon my rights as a Member, the Member from Thebacha , in his statement, and I would ask the Speaker to rule that he would strike anything from the record infringing on my privilege as a Member."

The acting Speaker, Mr. Ningark , and thank you for yesterday, sought debate on the point of privilege raised by the Member for Iqaluit . In the course of debate, the Member for Hay River , Mrs. Groenewegen , rose on her point of privilege, stating at page 567 of the unedited Hansard:

"If Mr. Miltenberger feels that he said something on Friday that he should not have said, he has every opportunity to stand up and retract those and apologize for them. He does not need to try and implicate everyone else or other Members of this House in his mistake. I do take exception to him referring to the Business Incentive Policy and people who may have a spouse that owns a business. I not only have a spouse that owns a business, I also own a business, and I believe that he is misleading the House, by suggesting that all business deals need to take place in an arm's length fashion."

After citing from the conflict of interest provisions of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, Mrs. Groenewegen went on to state at page 568 of the unedited Hansard:

"I would like to suggest that Mr. Miltenberger , by his comments, not on a territorial basis, but in reference to Fort Smith specifically, and community libraries specifically on Friday, was probably over the line and he can stand up and speak about that and he can retract that, but he does not need to implicate the rest of us..."

In debate on the point of privilege, the Premier , the Honourable Don Morin , rose and asked the Speaker to review the comments of the Member for Hay River when rendering a decision on the points of privilege, pointing out that there is a process available through the Conflict of Interest Commissioner's office for the general public and Members to address the issue of conflict of interest.

Mr. Ningark indicated to the House that he would provide the House with a ruling, following a review of Hansard and the appropriate authorities. I would like to now provide the House with my ruling on the points of privilege raised, as well as to provide the House with some guidance in addressing issues relating to conflict of interest and decorum of Members generally.

The Member for Thebacha , in rising on Monday to comment on the questions asked by him last Friday, was not raising a traditional or normal point of privilege. Rather, his statement was one of clarification or explanation of his conflict and was in accordance with the conflict of interest provisions of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. Rule 20(1) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly permits a Member to, with the leave of the Speaker, to "explain a matter, although not a contempt or breach of privilege, which concerns the Member in his or her capacity as a Member of the Legislative Assembly".

Mr. Miltenberger 's statement explaining his questioning, and his conflict, was a statement properly brought under that rule.

For the assistance of Members, both our Rules and the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act contain provisions to guide Members in addressing issues in which they may be in conflict. Rule 13 of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly provides:

No Member is entitled to vote upon any question in which he or she has a direct or indirect financial interest, and the vote of any Member so interested shall be disallowed.

As well, this Legislature passed laws in the 11th Assembly, defining conflict of interest and setting forth the obligations of Members addressing conflicts. These provisions are contained with Part Three of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. For the assistance of Members, a Member has a conflict where:

The Member, or the spouse or dependent child of the Member, has significant private interests that afford the Member, the spouse or dependent child of the Member, the opportunity to directly or indirectly benefit from the performance of any of the duties of office of the Member.

The above definition is found in

section 66(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. Many Members have, and will continue to have, conflicts in certain matters. We all have personal lives, whether before we were elected or presently, which will, on occasion, result in us being in a conflict in addressing certain issues. What is most important is how a Member resolves a conflict of interest, not necessarily the fact that a conflict exists.

The Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act places serious obligations on Members to resolve their conflicts in accordance with the public interest.

Section 67(

A) provides that:

Each Member shall perform his or her duties of office and arrange his or her private affairs in such a manner as to maintain public confidence and trust in the integrity, objectivity and impartiality of the Member.

Section 67(

C) and 67(

D) places an obligation on a Member to:

Arrange his or her private affairs in conformity with the provisions of this part and act generally to prevent any conflict of interest from arising and make all reasonable efforts to resolve any conflict of interest that may arise in favour of the public interest.

If a Member has a conflict of interest in any matter that is before a committee of this Legislature or before the House, the Member must, pursuant to s.69(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, disclose the general nature of the conflict and withdraw from the meeting without voting or participating in the consideration of the matter. This is an obligation that must be followed by all Members of this House.

If a Member has a question about whether they are in a conflict, they are able to seek advice from the Clerk's office or from the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. Indeed, the Legislation specifically authorizes the Conflict of Interest Commissioner to give advice to a Member which will prevent any conflict of interest prosecution against the Member if the Member has disclosed all material facts and followed the advice of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. While it may appear to some that conflicts are a "grey" area, there are very clear procedures to follow in determining what is or what is not a conflict.

A Member may rise, as did the Member for Thebacha , to explain to the House a line of questioning which may have been perceived as a conflict. As long as the statement is limited to providing an explanation of the Member's behaviour, it is acceptable. However, as Speaker, I am not comfortable with the idea that this forum is the appropriate forum for debating and ruling on whether a Member has contravened the conflict of interest provisions of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. There are clear mechanisms for invoking a complaint procedure under our legislation.

Any Member who feels that another Member has "crossed the line" is free to file a complaint under the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. The complaint will then be dealt with by the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and her decisions, including recommendations for a sanction, if any, will be tabled in this House for decision by this Legislature. Sanctions for violating the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act can range from reprimand, fine to expulsion of the Member as a Member. These sanctions are serious and should not be trivialized in political debate.

Given that ultimately this Legislature plays a significant decision-making role in addressing complaints of conflict, I am not comfortable in pre-empting that role and politicizing the issue of conflict of interest. For that reason, I will not entertain an allegation that another Member is in conflict.

With respect to Mr. Picco 's and Mrs. Groenewegen 's point of privilege, some comments on the nature and function of parliamentary privilege might be of assistance to Members. Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, citation 24, states:

Parliamentary privilege is the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively as a constituent part of the High Court of Parliament, and by Members of each House individually, without which they could not discharge their functions and which exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals.

Within the same citation, Beauchesne's goes on to further state:

...The distinctive mark of a privilege is its ancillary character. The privileges of Parliament are those rights which are "absolutely necessary for the due execution of it's powers".

Traditionally, individual privileges accorded to Members have been limited to issues relating to freedom of speech, freedom from arrest in civil actions, exemption from jury duty and exemption from attendance as a witness. Given that these privileges represent an extraordinary exception to the ordinary laws, it is generally accepted that the category of privileges is closed and cannot be added to without express statutory or constitutional amendment.

Notwithstanding the relatively narrow category of privileges that are protected, Beauchesne's does note, in citation 64, that the House has occasionally taken notice of attacks on individual Members as constituting a breach of the privileges of the House. Beauchesne's, citation 67, indicates that it is always the responsibility of the House to decide if the reflections on Members are sufficiently serious to justify action.

I am also aided by Beauchesne's citation 69, which quotes a Speaker's ruling from 1987:

The Speaker has reminded the House, "it is very important...to indicate that something can be inflammatory, can be disagreeable, can even be offensive, but it may not be a question of privilege unless the comment actually impinges upon the ability of Members of Parliament to do their job properly.

Mr. Picco and Mrs. Groenewegen , in their respective points of privilege, appear to be indicating that Mr. Miltenberger 's use of examples in his statement go too far. They suggest that Mr. Miltenberger , in clarifying his questioning in the House, was acting improperly, in that he seemed to be citing examples relating to other Members' lines of questioning in the House and using those examples to illustrate how "grey" the area of appropriate questioning is, so as to avoid a conflict of interest allegation. Indeed, Mrs. Groenewegen used the word "implicate us all" in her point of privilege. Given that both points of privilege address the same issue, I will deal with them as a single matter.

As stated above, questions of privilege are, and should be, narrow in scope and limited to only those powers which are strictly necessary to permit a Member to carry out his or her functions as a Member. Mr. Miltenberger 's citing of examples of questioning which may or may not constitute a conflict of interest is not so offensive as to impair a Member's ability to carry on as a Member. To paraphrase acting Speaker Paproski, the citing of examples may be inflammatory, disagreeable or even offensive, however, I cannot say that the comments are so clearly directed to one Member or Members as to prevent those Members and the House from carrying on its business.

So I note that although Mr. Miltenberger 's comments went beyond his declaration of his conflict, and beyond what he is required to do under the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I rule that neither the Member for Iqaluit or the Member for Hay River has a point of privilege.

However, before I leave this topic, I would ask all Members to be conscious of the need to avoid the provocative use of examples which, by their very nature, inspire disagreements within this Legislature. As the Premier very properly pointed out, this Legislature has enacted a process for identifying and resolving conflicts of interest. Raising these issues on the floor of the House ignores the legislative process that this very Legislature has adopted and serves to undermine that process, while trivializing the role of debate in this House. Thank you.

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Decorum And Behaviour During Question Period

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank you for your ruling. I would like to take this opportunity to clarify some recent statements in this House. First of all, I did not create a housing crisis. Having people still living in matchboxes without running water or indoor plumbing in 1997 is not only atrocious, but it is a crisis. Mr. Speaker, I did not start a library crisis by laying off regional librarians and not providing that service to small communities. It may be perceived as a crisis by the over 700 people who had signed the petition presented yesterday. Mr. Speaker, I did not start a fuel crisis. The only crisis seemed to be in the minds of those answering my question.

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Decorum And Behaviour During Question Period

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

An Hon. Member

Shame.

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Decorum And Behaviour During Question Period

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I did not start an amalgamation crisis. From the unedited Hansard of Friday, January 31, in response to a question from ...

-- Noise

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Decorum And Behaviour During Question Period

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Mr. O'Brien , the Minister said on page 546, that "the amalgamation proposal as presented is not going ahead". Mr. Speaker, from that, I was trying to ascertain from the Minister if there was a new proposal on amalgamation. Mr. Speaker, I was not starting a crisis. I was asking a question. The proposed amalgamation might have been crisis for the affected employees who were going to be laid off as a result. That should not be belittled.

Mr. Speaker, question period is to provide answers, not to prompt debate, argue or ridicule a Member, or marginalize his or her statements. The decorum in this House has slipped to an all time low, and I will not be party to the baiting of Members for the sake of a sound bite in the media. Mr. Speaker, it would seem that any question on the direction, policies, financial plans, reductions and layoffs are not to be raised by the Members without upsetting the Executive Council.

I ask a lot of questions. I make no apology for that, and by marginalizing my questions or attacking me as a fear monger only demonstrates to the people of the Northwest Territories the pettiness and contempt some of you have for an individual trying to represent his or her constituency. In consensus government the Ordinary Members are here to try to provide the checks and balances to the Executive Council. Mr. Speaker, I will continue that role to the best of my ability. Crisis or no crisis. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Decorum And Behaviour During Question Period

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Clyde River Housing Shortage

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good evening, fellow colleagues. Just recently, we spoke on Clyde River housing conditions, as well as what Mr. Picco referred to matchboxes still be used in Clyde River. Today, I will be thanking, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Housing Corporation , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , who was able to answer our question. The seven units will be replaced within two years in Clyde River. For that reason, I would like to thank the Minister of Housing Corporation . Thank you. (Translation ends)

-- Applause

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Clyde River Housing Shortage

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas .

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Dust And Air Contaminants In Arctic Bay

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker (Translation ends) I would like to speak out a concern of my constituency of Arctic Bay. The constituents have been complaining about the high dust level and the contaminant spillage for a number of years now. In the spring of 1995, there was an oil flow into Strathcona Sound and this has been a concern for many years. As of this result, I have learned Qitirmiut Association filed a formal complaint about the situation. I know that in my constituency of Arctic Bay, we are benefitting from this mine, but this needs to be addressed. Later today, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking question to the appropriate Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Dust And Air Contaminants In Arctic Bay

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas . Members' statements. Mr. Henry .

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"bridges" School Program To Aid Transition To The Labour Market

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to talk today about a wonderful new program developed and being introduced by the St. Patrick's High School here in Yellowknife. The program I am referring to, Mr. Speaker, is appropriately called Bridges. The developmental work and study program is aimed at assisting students in the transition phase from school into the labour market. The new program will be made available to all students, but is primarily aimed at aboriginal youth, young women, disabled students, minorities, and those most at risk of leaving school.

Students in the program will attend regular classes in the mornings and will participate in on the job training work experiences in the afternoon.

Mr. Speaker, I feel this is a wonderful, practical program. All too often, we educate our youth on an academic level, but forget about providing those who do not choose an academic career a vehicle to move into the work force. This program provides that vehicle. It provides a bridge and makes it easier for our students to move from school curriculum into the real world. Not all of our students in our schools have the ability or desire to pursue academic activities.

I for one, Mr. Speaker, would like to applaud St. Patrick's School for undertaking this initiative and addressing such an important part of our educational system. I feel that this type of initiative will help maximize benefits for our northern students. Later today I will be asking the Minister of Education some questions on this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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"bridges" School Program To Aid Transition To The Labour Market

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry . Members' statements, Mr. Ootes .

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Public Works Contracting System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The last few days, I have been asking questions from the Minister of Public Works about the contracting system in DPW. Frankly, I am disappointed and disillusioned with the fashion in which government handles the contract system. Some Cabinet Members may argue that they are trying to be fair to communities and to certain sectors. What is fair to some may not be fair to others. To me, certain parts of the contract system are very unfair.

Let me tell you about a northern contractor who came to see me about some concerns with regard to the construction management proposals. This is a company with many, many years of northern experience. They have handled large projects for the government. They have been complimented by the Department of Public Works for the excellent workmanship that they have done. Now this is their concern. In 1990, apparently this government introduced the contra-construction management proposal system. They bid on a number of these proposals and were not successful.

They were asked, how was the criteria established for this, and they said it is done through a rating sheet. They asked to see if they could get the rating sheet, and they were told, no. Consistently no. Eventually, the project officer did, surreptitiously in confidence, show them the ratings sheet. Their rating for northern experience was one out of five. One out of five. This was a company that had done all sorts of work throughout the north.

Since that time, Mr. Speaker, they have not been successful on projects and they cannot get access to the rating sheets. They also are not told how much the successful bids were for, and this has been going on since 1990. Seven years afterwards. How can this closed tender system continue to be? That is my question. A company that is here in the north and many companies can not improve unless they see their ratings sheets, and unless they know how much the successful bid was for. The system is contrary to the philosophy of private enterprise and contrary to the philosophy of open government. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Public Works Contracting System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do I have any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent, Mr. Ootes .

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Public Works Contracting System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. About 20 to 25 percent of the government contracts are through sole-sourced, negotiated, construction management proposals, and site superintendent services. Those are not publicly tendered, in other words open, in the public, everybody knows who got the contract for how much. That means about $30,000,000 out of our budget. There are things that appear to be wrong here. How do I know that the government is getting value for its money? These are very tight economic times.

If the government is issuing these contracts if they are 10 percent over what they normally would be, then we are losing 3 to 4 million dollars a year. The philosophy of private enterprise and tendering is being challenged here. This is public money, paid for by the tax payers of Canada. Let us not forget that 80 percent of our money comes from the federal government. the tax payers of Canada. We have a responsibility to be open on how we spend that money. When we review the budget of the Department of Public Works, Mr. Speaker, I hope to be asking the Minister a number of questions in this whole area. Thank you.

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Public Works Contracting System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes . Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Industrious, Hard-working Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to rise to briefly speak in defence of the many, many industrious, hard-working, creative people across the north that do not live in Yellowknife,

-- Applause

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Industrious, Hard-working Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

...that the Member from Yellowknife South implied do not live elsewhere in the north. I might add, for the second time in this House that I can recollect, I think it is an unfair comment to a vast majority of people in the north that have built the north. I would also like to point out that when you become a capital city, you experience a huge influx of capital, money, government resources, and accompanying businesses and services that set up around capitals. Yellowknife's growth has shown that, and I think as we go with division in Nunavut, that Iqaluit will experience the same thing.

I think it is an indication of how big Yellowknife has become, and how used they are to getting the resources they do get, when the Member can say that 12 jobs are trifling, insignificant, and not even hardly worth considering. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, a community like Fort Smith, with 2,500 people, that is suffering greatly, or like the other communities around this table where people are suffering greatly, would be very happy to have 12 jobs with the attending infrastructure and the families that go with it, and the impact it would have on our communities.

Mr. Speaker, I think we have to keep things in perspective. Very clearly, Yellowknife has had cuts, but they are doing their share. As I said before, they do have the resources and the ability to sustain those far more than most other communities. I would just like to point out a line from Hamlet, that my good friend Will Shakespeare wrote. If I can steal a page from Mr. Picco 's book, "Me thinks thou doth protest too much," may be applicable in some cases when we here people say they are being cut too much. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Industrious, Hard-working Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements, Mr. O'Brien .

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Acknowledgement Of Minister's Efforts

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to acknowledge and commend the Minister of Housing Corporation for his swift action for addressing the very real concern of families being evicted during the dead of winter. It would be valuable for the Members to hear the response from the letter that he recently sent out to the local housing associations as to what options and modifications they will be making to their policies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Acknowledgement Of Minister's Efforts

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 376

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements, Mr. Erasmus .

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NWT Senior's Society Letter To Social Programs Committee

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 376

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Social Programs Committee recently had lunch with the NWT Seniors Advisory Council, and I just wanted to read a brief note that they sent us following that meeting.

The NWT Seniors Advisory Council would like to thank you for the luncheon and the opportunity to meet you and the committee. We appreciated the open and candid discussions. As promised, I am enclosing a copy of a letter the Advisory Council addressed to Minister Dent , regarding the fossil fuel program. The Advisory Council agree that the fuel program is very valuable and still much needed and wanted. We passed a motion to recommend to Minister Dent that no further reductions be made to the 1997/98 fuel program.

The Advisory Council also passed a motion supporting Minister Ng to have the social envelope review all programs available to seniors and elders. The Advisory Council would want to have representation in this process from the beginning, and not consulted after the draft. The Advisory Council also recommended to Minister Ng to look at the feasibility of having one department responsible for all seniors programs and benefits. We hope that you will support us with your recommendations.

This is dated February 3, 1997, and it came from the NWT Seniors Advisory Council. Thank you.

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NWT Senior's Society Letter To Social Programs Committee

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 376

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus . Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mrs. Thompson .

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Return To Oral Question 150-13(4): Municipal Liabilities Through Empowerment

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 376

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Picco on January 28, 1997, on ability contingencies community empowerment.

As our major partner, it is essential that the NWTAM's concerns be heard by MACA, and this government. I have directed my staff to investigate the liability issue raised by the Member from Iqaluit , and further detailed in correspondence from Mr. Bevington. If our review indicates that any liabilities have been inappropriately transferred to communities, I will ensure that steps are taken to rectify the situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question 150-13(4): Municipal Liabilities Through Empowerment

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Oral Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Mines

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 376

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is a response to a question asked by Mr. Rabesca on the 28th of January regarding the monitoring of Colomac Mines. As the honourable Member correctly noted in this Assembly on January 28, when work is finally completed next summer at the Rae Rock Mine, it will have taken over three decades to clean up wastes left over from the mine's operation. Times have changed however, and so have the means by which governments regulate mines, including the Colomac Mine.

The land upon which Colomac Mine operates is controlled by land leases administered by the Land Resources Branch of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. Operation of the waste treatment and disposal facilities are licensed by the federal NWT Water Board. In the case of Colomac and other mines operating on federal land, the Government of the Northwest Territories does not have a direct regulatory role over their land and water use activities. The role we take is one of advisor to the appropriate federal regulatory agency and, just recently with BHP, partner to the Environmental Agreement.

With respect to eventual closure and abandonment of the Colomac Mine, when Royal Oak Mines received approval from the federal Water Board to operate a mine, a condition was placed in their water licence which required the company to submit an abandonment and restoration plan. The plan presents the scope of activities that Royal Oak Mines will undertake at the time of final mine closure. At the same time, the Water Board also required Royal Oak Mines to post and maintain a security deposit in the amount of $1.5 million to ensure the necessary work was undertaken upon closure.

Mr. Speaker, all governments must continue to learn from the mistakes of the past. When it comes to the closure and abandonment of mines, it is hoped that we have learned enough so that the mistakes made at Rae Rock are not repeated. For our part, we remain committed to ensuring closure and abandonment of mines occur in a timely and safe manner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Mines

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin .

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Return To Oral Question 137-13(4): List Of Deputy Ministers In The GNWT

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 376

Don Morin

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Krutko on January 27, 1997. He asked for a list of the deputy ministers. Mr. Krutko asked for the number of deputy ministers and how many of those deputy ministers were hired from southern Canada.

The 11 departments and the NWT Housing Corporation are managed by 12 deputy ministers. With one exception, all the incumbents have been staffed through northern appointments. The one incumbent hired from southern Canada was a former resident of the Northwest Territories recruited for his extensive experience in the area of aboriginal education. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question 137-13(4): List Of Deputy Ministers In The GNWT

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ng .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 377

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

The Yellowknife and Thebacha campuses of Aurora College, in conjunction with Northern Addiction Services, is conducting the first in a series of joint training programs for drug and alcohol workers in the Northwest Territories.

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome these people to Yellowknife and to the Assembly, who are involved with the training programs: Joe Beaverho, Lac La Martre; Irene Betsidea, Deline; Fred Kuptana, Tuktoyaktuk; Eileen Liske, Dettah; Tootsie Lugt, Tuktoyaktuk; Anna May McLeod, Tsiigehtchich; Tony Rabesca, Fort Rae; Charlie Soupay, Aklavik; John Wannecke, Yellowknife and, last but not least, two of my constituents from Kugluktuk, Judy Hayohok and Julia Topilak. Welcome to the Assembly.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 377

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is not very often that I get to recognize anybody up in the gallery, but today, Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize my wife, Elisapee, my daughter, Janet and my boy, Andrew. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Rabesca .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 377

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize some members from my constituency in the gallery. Mr. Tony Rabesca, a well-respected member of our family, and also respected by youth organizations within our region, along with his friend Joe Beaverho from Lac La Martre. Welcome to the Assembly.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question to the Government Leader , Honourable Don Morin . We were aware, in the past few months, that the GNWT staff housing was for sale. I would like to ask the Government Leader , were the communities informed when the GNWT staff housing was for sale? That is my question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

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Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier .

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Return To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Don Morin

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been public knowledge that the Government of the Northwest Territories has been attempting to sell all staff housing that we own throughout the Northwest Territories, for the past number of years. It has been in the papers, as well as through news reports, as well as through direct letters to all employees, that we do offer staff housing for sale. So, it should be general, or public knowledge. Thank you.

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Return To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Enuaraq .

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Supplementary To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to ask the Premier , I was informed by some of the members in our community that they were not informed when the units were for sale. The people that approached me regarding this, obviously were not written to. Could he tell me if all the members had received letters, members of the public? (Translation ends)

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Supplementary To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Don Morin

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I defer that question to the Minister of Finance , Mr. John Todd . He is in charge of selling staff housing. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker. First of all, I will just step back a little bit, each individual house owner or, I should say tenant, was advised and given, as I said on a number of occasions in 1996, the first option to purchase their house. They were given a significant period of time to decide on that. We also indicated, at that time, that if they were not prepared to purchase the house, we were prepared to put them out to the communities at first, and give the communities an option to purchase. Then after that, we would go into the regions. I am pleased to say, in Mr.

Enuaraq 's riding for example, in Clyde River, a development corporation owned and operated by aboriginal people has purchased the homes in that community, and other aboriginal organizations in Pangnirtung and Broughton Island are doing the same. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Question 216-13(4): Sale Of GNWT Staff Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Transportation in regards to the winter roads, especially in the Mackenzie Valley, and exactly what the problem seems to be in relation to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Why is it taking so long for those roads to be open? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Transportation . Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to the winter roads, the roads hopefully will be open by February 10, about a week or so. The reason for the late opening is the

section between the community of Pedzeh Ki, or Wrigley, up to Tulita, the Fort Norman section. There is a lack of snow and we need snow to build the ice

crossings on the numerous creek and small river crossings in that

section of the highway, winter road. As a result, we waited as long as we could, and there is still very little snow in that area, but we are going ahead. We are using all precautions to try to accommodate the Department of Oceans and Fisheries in respect to the way we build these ice roads. Thank you.

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Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and also in regards to the Fisheries Act, has the Minister or the department considered challenging the legality of that Act in relation to the Northwest Territories? Or meeting with the appropriate ministers to amend that Act to allow us, in the north, to be able to maintain the transportation systems for those isolated communities in shipping goods into those communities, which is possibly the only time of year that a lot of these goods can get into those communities? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Transportation officials have been meeting with the officials from the federal Department of Oceans and Fisheries, and are trying to come to a resolution in regards to the Act that we are trying to abide by. Yes, we are trying to meet with the federal Minister responsible for that department, Mr. Mifflin. At this point in time, I have not been able to meet with him personally but the intention here, in the future, is to try and arrange some sort of a meeting so that we can sit down and go over some of these problem areas. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the cost of goods shipped in and out of the communities. air versus road transportation, has the Minister's department done a study on that to see exactly the cost, to this government, of shipping goods in versus trucking them in? Is the cost to this government higher because of the road closure to date? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the winter road system north from Wrigley to the communities of Tulita, Norman Wells, Good Hope and Deline, is a very vital link to all of us here. As we know, we have to resupply these communities with the fuel so that they have enough fuel to run throughout the year - those communities that are not reached by the tugboats. At the same time, we try to use these roads to provide resupply of building supplies, dry goods and so forth, to these communities. Yes, it is a substantially lower cost if we were able to truck all these goods in on the winter roads.

As we wait for these winter roads to open, the costs are very high for bringing in the supplies otherwise. The department has not really sat down and analyzed the cost break-down of what the honourable Member is seeking but we understand that, generally, the cost would go down if the winter roads were open and we were able to resupply these communities. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With regards to the question about the road being opened and closed. Could the Minister make a commitment to people in the Sahtu region, to allow the traffic and goods to be shipped prior to the date which was set up, I believe it was March 19th? Could the Minister commit to possibly extend that date in regards to allowing those goods to be shipped into those communities?

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I cannot commit to the honourable Member to extend that time of March 19th, the honourable Member mentioned for closure of the road. The intention of the department is to try to contact all the communities and all the different truckers that intend to resupply these communities. As soon as the road is open and the weight is allowable, then whatever resupply regarding these communities, should be ready to roll. We intend to pursue that and make sure that the five communities get resupplied in the time space that we have available to us. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Question 217-13(4): Winter Road Openings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 218-13(4): H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services . It is in regards to his statement when he announced the major strategic planning initiative for Health and Social Services. Could the Minister indicate the scope of this particular strategic planning process? Specifically, Mr.

Speaker, I am interested in some of the underlying issues that have been raised in this House over the last year and a half, in regards to things like, our exploding population, the housing crisis, the education of our people in the Territories and, of course, unemployment, all of which affect the health and the requirement for social services of the people. Could the Minister indicate if there will a time that those other more fundamental issues that drive the need in our society? Thank you.

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Question 218-13(4): H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Ng .

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Return To Question 218-13(4): H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Question 218-13(4): H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the scope of the strategic planning process that the consultants are undergoing is very broad. It would take into account some of the problems that we are facing in respect to the exact same issues the honourable Member has identified in respect to our population growth, which is higher than the normal standards throughout the country. Our poorer health status indicators, and all those factors that contribute to some of the problems that we are facing in the Health and Social Services system throughout the Territories, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to reiterate that there was a written question for tabling the terms of reference of the strategic planning process with the consultants, and I will be providing that as soon as possible to provide as much detail and information as Members want on this particular issue, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 218-13(4): H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Question 218-13(4): H&ss Strategic Planning Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng . Oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs , the honourable Jim Antoine . It has to do with the constitutional process. The working group has had several meetings since December. The concern has been whether we are going to be able to get some federal funding to be able to support the process. Could the Minister update us on whether the federal government is contributing towards this? With the understanding that the federal government had some concerns to be addressed prior to funding, could the Minister give me an answer on that, please?

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Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Northern Constitutional Affairs, Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the western constitutional process is still under way. The Constitutional Working Group has had a series of meetings. In fact, we had a meeting last night and we intend to have another meeting again tonight. I would like to report that this government has committed to put some funding into a consultation process, as well the federal government has also made a commitment to fund this process. Jointly, we should have some funding to go ahead and start a consultation process into the communities.

In fact, the Constitutional Working Group has been working on a work plan, and we still have to sort some of that out, but the intention and the direction is to go ahead and begin consultation between now and the end of March, and hopefully into April, May and June. Like I said, we still have to sort out some of the work plans and the scheduling, timing and so forth still has to be agreed upon. Generally the direction is to go ahead.

There is concern by the federal government in regards to the Partners document that we tabled in the House in October. Their concern was with the content of it which was a model that we put forward. Throughout the last couple of months, since we tabled that document, the officials of the Aboriginal Affairs have been meeting with the federal officials trying to see what kind of commitment the federal government would have towards this document. I would like to say officially that there is support for the principles of the document from the federal officials which is a good sign.

They are concerned about the model. We said all along that this package was for public consultation and once it was out people would have opportunity to comment on it. We have heard a lot of comments on it and now with the funding that is in place, we intend to go ahead and go into the communities and explain the document and get feedback from people. The intention here is to revise this document as we get the feedback from people. That was the intention all along. Thank you.

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Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister for the explanation. Could you tell us who will be doing the consulting in the communities? Who will make up the consulting committee?

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the ideal situation would be for the MLAs of the particular constituency to be involved in the communities that they represent. However, as we know, we will be in session until February and by the way we are going maybe we will be going until March. That does not allow us much time for MLAs to go into our communities. We are still formulating a plan.

The plan is to try to get a page of different individuals, facilitators to go into the communities, some of the staff that has been working with us all along, to go into the communities and explain the package to the people in the communities. If time allows, any MLA who could make themselves available should do so, once the teams are in to the communities. Certainly, if I have the time, I personally would like to do that for the areas that I represent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was originally envisioned that the process would be completed by I believe, July, so that it could make the House of Commons and involve the federal government by the fall. The reason for the timeframe was because it would take two years to get through the House of Commons, so that we could amend the federal Act. I wonder if the Minister could tell us what timeframe we are now looking at, with regard to a new constitution or proposed changes?

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, like I said, we are still sorting out some of the work plan, the timing and so forth. Ideally, we would like to get the consultation done as soon as we can in the next two months or so. If not, then we will have to maybe extend that. We know realistically that it is impossible to do it by March, so we are going to have look at maybe as far as June, or even into the fall. We are still having meetings with the Constitutional Working Group.

We are looking at the times, and ideally we would like to try to get the consultations done as quickly and as thoroughly as we can, so that as the feedback comes in, we will revise the document. Hopefully we will have a revised document by some time late summer or even early fall. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister knows the document was not well received initially in my community, and some other communities. There were a lot of comments. I wonder if the Minister could tell us what will be put before the general public during the consultation process?

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the document was first tabled in this House and went to the public, there was no opportunity for myself or Members of the Constitutional Working Group or team, to properly put a package together and present it in a way where all elements that were put into this document were explained in a very acceptable way by all the participants. To this point in time, the staff have been able to put a package together that will incorporate all the different input that was put into the document.

As you know, we are in partners with the aboriginal leaders in putting this package together as elected MLAs. It is a partnership kind of arrangement. To put the package forward we need to have input by different people that participated. I think we have a fairly good package together that incorporates the history of constitutional development in the North, along with the different elements that are there already in the Canadian constitution, the different sections that cover the different rights of everybody in Canada as well as in the north.

Once the package is presented in that way, I think people will see it in a different light even though it was received quite negatively by a few people with very strong opinions in Yellowknife.

There are other people than those in Yellowknife throughout the north. I think even the reactions that I have heard personally are quite favourable now as people understand the package more. Hopefully the people that had very negative reactions at first, if they see a package that is well presented, will see it under a different light. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Question 219-13(4): Funding The Western Constitutional Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Barnabas .

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Question 220-13(4): Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement, I stated that there was concern in my community of Arctic Bay. I would like to ask the Minister, Mr. Kakfwi . (Translation ends) ... practices at Nanasivik mine, have prompted Qitirmiut Association to ask for a full review of its operation. Is the Minister aware of this situation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 220-13(4): Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 220-13(4): Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Question 220-13(4): Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, under the Environmental Right Act, any two members of the public can file an application in writing, disclosing their names and the full nature of the concern and file with this government requesting that, as a Minister, I take some action to have an investigation done should there be some substance to the concern raised in the application. As of today, although I am aware of the concern that was raised, there is not yet an application made. Once an application is received, we will decide how to proceed in response to the application. Thank you.

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Return To Question 220-13(4): Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Question 220-13(4): Environmental Concerns At Nanasivik Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco .

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Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Renewable Resources and the Environment, Mr. Kakfwi . Mr. Speaker, there has been much concern regarding the recent tender issue for the sale of 11 DEW Line sites by the Department of National Defence. Recent environmental studies show that many of the buildings on these sites contain paint with high levels of PCBs. Canada's chloride biphenyl regulations prohibit the sale of material containing these substances. However, the Department of National Defence are asking to be allowed for exemptions for these sales.

My question to the Minister is, has his department been following this issue and what is being done to address this situation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resource, Wildlife and Economic Development. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, at a recent Environment Ministers' meeting, the federal Minister, Sergio Marchi, asked that a total ban be placed on any waste landfill sites with waste that contained PCBs to a certain level. Now the Department of National Defence is asking the same federal Minister to provide an exemption, so that the buildings and equipment at the DEW Line sites which contain a very high level of PCBs in the paint to provide an exemption, so that these buildings can be disposed of in landfill sites in the Northwest Territories.

We are following it. We are aware that the Department of National Defence is also speaking to aboriginal associations requesting landfill sites be made available to them for the purpose of disposing some of these wastes from the DEW Line sites. That is the information that I have to date. I am not aware that the federal Minister has responded to his counterpart in the Department of Defence. Thank you.

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Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is correct when he says that it is not acceptable for PCBs from these DEW Line sites to be buried in the Northwest Territories. My supplementary question to the Minister is, will he write the Minister of Department of National Defence, Mr. Sergio Marchi, the federal Minister for the Environment, to let them about the concerns we have in the Northwest Territories regarding the sale of the 11 DEW Line sites? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, just from a technical point of view, there is no scientific information at this time that says disposal of these buildings without crumbling them or cutting them into little pieces, will result in leeching of the PCBs into the environment. That is to say, if they are taken intact and put into wastefill sites, the way they are, technically we do not have any information that says we should be concerned. It seems to have been demonstrated that leaving them intact will, in fact, not cause any leeching of it into the environment.

But, on the other hand, if the federal government is taking such a hard line on it, or willing to take the buildings and ship them out of the Northwest Territories and dispose of them, for instance, through the Swan Hill's facility in Alberta, and pay for the entire operation, then we have absolutely no objection with that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the concern, here of course, is that it is a public tender. If Ed Picco, for example, buys a DEW Line site, it would not be, probably, cost efficient for me to bundle the site up and ship it out to Calgary, ship it out to Montreal, wherever. What they would like to do, the person who would buy this, is take off whatever they want in the buildings and then get rid of the rest, and that I guess, is why DIAND is asking for an exemption so that they could actually bury this in the Northwest Territories.

My concern here would be, and the concern that has been raised is that they not be allowed to do that, and my question was to the Minister, would he write DND explaining our situation here in the Northwest Territories? Under no circumstances, no circumstances should these DEW Line sites, these buildings, this refuse, the paint, the PCBs be buried here in the Northwest Territories.

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Supplementary To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I take the point that the Member raises, of course. We are presently awaiting to meet with officials in the department in order to decide what the best course of action should be in regard to these recent activities taking place at the Ottawa level, regarding contaminants here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know that the Minister will be following this very closely. Will the Minister commit to this House, and the people of the Northwest Territories, that as this situation develops, he will address it here in the House, so that the people of the Northwest Territories can be updated on what is happening with the sale, and the possible burying or not burying of these contaminated DEW Line sites. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, yes, I will do what I can to keep the Members informed. I thank the Member for raising it and providing an opportunity for myself to respond to him in this forum. As well, I would expect that the Reform Party, and the Bloc Quebecois in their usual high standard of being the official opposition, vying for that position, will be asking their usual precise questions, protecting the interests of the public in issues like this. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Question 221-13(4): Sale Of Dew Line Sites

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment . This government provides a monthly supplementary benefit to seniors in need in the amount of $135 per month. I understand that a number of seniors in my riding still have not received their cheques, which normally they would get by the end of January. Can the Minister please tell me why these cheques have not been issued as of yet? Thank you.

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Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment . Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 381

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the amount that the Member refers to is paid to low income seniors each month and is tied directly to the Federal

Old Age Security Benefit. Apparently, difficulties occurred when the Old Age Security office in Edmonton tried to input the new postal codes for Hay River. The computer rejected the new postal codes and as a result dropped 65 seniors off the mailing list.

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Return To Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is unfortunate that this has taken place, but I do appreciate the Minister's explanation. I would hope that seniors in Hay River would be understanding, Mr. Speaker. This $135 per month payment is very important to many senior citizens who do not earn high income and have recently experienced reductions in support. Can the Minister tell me when the seniors in Hay River will be getting their cheques exactly? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am advised that the cheques will be printed tomorrow and will be couriered to Hay River, and will be available in Hay River on Thursday. The Post Mistress has been contacted and has agreed to treat the cheques as priority items, so that seniors will be able to pick them up on Thursday at the post office. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Question 222-13(4): Benefits Owing To Seniors

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Steen .

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Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to Mr. Antoine , Minister of Aboriginal Affairs . Mr. Speaker, we have a board out in a part of the building here in the main lobby, identifying the amount of days left until we arrive at April 1, 1999. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister could indicate to the House what the timeframe is for this House to have a constitution ready, to present to the federal government, what that deadline date is?

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Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs . Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to develop a constitution for the west in the NWT here, we still have a long way to go. We are only now looking at going into the communities. We finally secured some funding from this government and the feds to put teams together and go into the communities and explain the package, and get some feedback. Hopefully, have a revision of the package by the spring, perhaps this summer. The idea here is to have the package for ratification in the fall sometime.

In the meantime, the Constitutional Working Group has been working with the federal officials, because we need them to be involved if ever we are to put changes to the NWT Act into the federal legislation. They have to be involved from the very beginning. They are involved now, and they are willing to participate as we look at revising the package. That it will be acceptable first to people in the North and it has to also be acceptable to the federal government before they agreed to go ahead and develop the legislation that will go through their Parliament.

As we all know, the federal government is going to be going into a federal election fairly soon. Maybe, as early as this spring, maybe in the fall we are told. We have to take that into consideration. If we say that there is a federal election by the fall, let us say October, I am not saying that is going to happen, I am just saying that it could happen. If we have documentation, that will have to be ready by then, and then once a new government gets in, we will be able to hopefully work with the new government that is in place to move ahead with legislation.

It is going to be sometime before, it will take about a year or so before we get through that process. We do not know. I have to tell the honourable Member that at this point and time, although we have discussed it quite thoroughly, it is still very much an unknown at this point in time. But we can only speculate that we look at some timeframes and we try to aim for that. Hopefully, we will have something in place by the time division happens. That window of opportunity is very narrow, and it is closing very rapidly.

There are so many different players involved that it is going to be very hard to say right now that we are going to have a legislation ready to go for acceptance by division time. Thank you.

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Return To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Minister for that long response. But what I wanted to know, Mr. Speaker was, what is the deadline we have to achieve in order to ensure that the federal government has time to process the legislation in the House of Commons? In other words, if we put forward a new NWT constitution, what is the timeframe required by the federal government in order to process that piece of legislation, so it is in effect? That was the question I had.

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Supplementary To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 382

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do not have a timeframe. I do not know. It is a real unknown at this time. I am told by the people who are

aware of these things that it usually takes a minimum of two years for a legislation to go through the federal Parliament. Like I said, earlier, we do not have a legislation yet. We are still developing a package which will eventually become legislation in the federal government. DIAND will probably be one of the key players in the federal system to develop a package. So at this point of time, it is a unknown to us. We can only go by what we are told by people who are experts in these things, and they are telling us that it takes about two years before legislation goes through the federal system. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 383

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 383

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe last summer over the course of the summer in some of the meetings we had with Aboriginal Affairs Department, we were advised that it takes roughly 17 to 22 months for the government to process legislation. In other words, DIAND would have to introduce the legislation at a certain timeframe. It would have to go through the House of Commons, Senate, the whole process, in order to be

an Act. Therefore, what I am trying to find out, if we want a new constitution by 1999, have we already passed the timeframe that would allow us to properly hand this in, so the federal government can do this?

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Supplementary To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 383

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 383

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I only could tell the honourable Member what may possibly happen. It is unknown at this point in time, but if the feds agree to speed up this legislation, then I think they have the capability of doing that. But, if it is going to go through a normal process, I am told that the honourable Member is correct. It would be about 22 months, which is two years, for legislation to go through. If you factor in the federal election that may be coming, perhaps we have already gone past the time before we are able to have a package by 1999. It might be 1999 that we have a package. So I could only speculate at this time, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 383

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Question 223-13(4): Timeframe For A Western Constitution

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 383

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minster is, is there any point in holding on to these community tours and we are going to have a suggestion here of a revised constitution by fall, and I presume more community tours. Is there any point in all this if we do not have time to introduce the legislation before 1999? Thank you.

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