Debates of Oct. 18th, 2005

This is page numbers 337 - 368 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

National Students Against Impaired Driving Day

Minister Absent From The House

Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Yellowknife Foster Family Association Public Awareness Campaign

Members' Statement On Decline Of Caribou Populations

Day Care Services For Parents Attending School

Affordable Housing In Small Communities

Taltson Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Childcare And Early Childhood Development

Workers' Compensation Board Office Complex

Investing In The Mackenzie Gas Project

Condition Of The Dempster Highway

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Upgrade Of Highway No. 8

NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Medical Supplies Procurement

Market Housing Initiative

Cost Of Seniors' Facilities

Access To Housing Programs

Housing Corporation Projects

Fuel Price Increases

Novel Housing Project

Costs Of Novel Housing Project

Written Question 12-15(4): Impaired Driving Day

Written Question 13-15(4): Seniors' Facilities

Written Question 14-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Tabled Document 34-15(4): Colville Lake School Extension

National Day Of Healing And Reconciliation

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 337

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, Members. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Minister's Statement 40-15(4): National Students Against Impaired Driving Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 337

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today is National Students Against Impaired Driving Day.

---Applause

In over 600 high schools across Canada, including the NWT, students are actively engaged in spreading a message that calls for a healthy and responsible outlook towards this serious social issue. Regrettably, impaired driving continues to be a serious and chronic problem in the Northwest Territories and in other parts of Canada. Despite years of intensive public education, more severe penalties and increased law enforcement, the offence of impaired driving remains the most common crime in the country.

This behaviour continues to cause an inexcusable amount of human suffering and costs individuals and societies a staggering amount of money. On average, 21 people are killed, and hundreds more are injured, every week in this country due to the senseless and thoughtless actions of impaired drivers.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, progress has been made in recent years to reduce the incidence of impaired driving in Canada. However, there is still a long road ahead before the day arrives when this problem can be eliminated.

This government acted on its responsibility to contribute to a solution for this problem when it implemented amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act last year. These amendments have greatly increased penalties for offenders and introduced other measures that address this important issue. In August of this year, as part of its broad strategy to reduce impaired driving, the Department of Transportation brought in a Graduated Drivers Licensing Program that gives new drivers more time to gain the skills, knowledge and experience needed to safely take their place on our streets and highways.

It's encouraging to see that many young people have embraced the view that drinking and driving is not acceptable, and are actively involved in promoting that view to their peers and others.

These young people are taking

part in activities that are organized each year at this time to observe this special day. This highly commendable event serves to focus attention, especially among teens and young drivers, on the serious consequences of getting behind the wheel of a car after consuming alcohol.

Mr. Speaker, here in Yellowknife, members of the St. Patrick's High School

chapter of Students Against Drunk Driving organized a number of special events to mark this day. This SADD chapter, which has now been operating for over 10 years, has been a strong voice for responsible behaviour, and for measures to step up the fight against impaired driving.

I know Members of this House will join me in applauding the attitude and actions of these young adults. They have made a real difference already and will continue to do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 40-15(4): National Students Against Impaired Driving Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 337

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Before we go on, I would like to tell the Members that the two languages of the House today are Tlicho and French. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 41-15(4): Minister Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 337

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Charles Dent will be absent from the House today, tomorrow and Thursday, to attend a federal/provincial/territorial Ministers of Social Development meeting in Ottawa. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 41-15(4): Minister Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 337

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 337

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about concerns I have with the NWT Housing Corporation. It has recently occurred to me that there are so many unresolved questions and issues about the functioning of this corporation/department, that we need to turn some serious attention to its operations. Today, I will just provide a broad overview of the issues, as I see them. I don't have a lot of detail to offer today, but I have research

looking into specific questions for me, and I will also have questions for the Minister at some point in this House.

We vote approximately $30 million per year for the operations of the NWT Housing Corporation. Do these dollars actually go to address what we constantly refer to as the critical shortage of suitable housing in the North, or do they go to a myriad of other activities, most of which, I maintain, are questionable at best and abysmal failures at worst?

How much of our financial resources that we commit to the NWT Housing Corporation go to a bloated, overstaffed headquarters? Why do we need so many people in headquarters? Why doesn't the number of positions in headquarters go down when the corporation decides to contract functions out? How many initiatives are undertaken by the Housing Corporation without proper budgets associated with them? For example, the Novel project. Were there funds budgeted for travel, consultation, consultants, so that the committee with the responsibility of the Housing Corporation could have input, or is this initiative forging ahead on an ad hoc basis?

We hear that the mandate of the Housing Corporation is changing. What is it changing to? Who is setting the priorities and direction for these changes? What about the housing policies and the rent scale? Why have we never been able to address the hardship that is caused when there are overcrowded housing situations in communities, and employed family members can't live in a public housing unit with a client without their rent changing to the point of making it impossible for the tenant to pay their rent even on a temporary basis?

Yet, we can have people performing illegal activities at a housing unit selling drugs and bootlegging alcohol for which there is no declared income. We are paying their rent.

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Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 338

Some Hon. Members

Hey!

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Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 338

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

We haven't been able to even partially close the gap of free rent for elders over 60 in public housing, and there is virtually no support for seniors living in their own homes trying to maintain independence and make ends meet.

Why are we spending millions of dollars on seniors' complexes like the one we toured in Tuktoyaktuk that is heated and lit 24 hours a day, seven days a week, costs thousands of dollars to keep the lights on, and no one has ever lived in it? Unless they reprofile the facilities, the same could be said of Fort Resolution and Deline. Mr. Speaker, could I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement, please?

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Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 338

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 338

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. I want to know how the capital money and operating costs of these facilities was spent, and so completely missed the needs of the community. How much did the marketing housing initiative cost? How many units are empty, and how many is the Housing Corporation subsidizing the cost of because they failed to have an accurate business plan or market analysis plan formed before jumping in with both feet?

When was the last time the Housing Corporation performed an analysis of their rent supplement units that were built in communities at 20-year sweetheart deals where the rents are grossly over-inflated? Why is the Housing Corporation always embroiled in controversy over their procurement tactics, making deals, putting out RFPs or tenders, only to turn around and do something completely contrary? Why is the Housing Corporation involved in things like product development and software development, which is far outside of their mandate?

If we have a critical housing shortage in the North, how about getting back to the issues at hand: to finance meeting the mandate of the Housing Corporation to provide suitable housing? I have a long list of places where they can start looking for that money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Concerns With The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 338

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Yellowknife Foster Family Association Public Awareness Campaign

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 338

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak today in support of a public awareness campaign that will be launched at noon in the Great Hall tomorrow by the Yellowknife Foster Family Association. Mr. Speaker, as much as it is our fervent desire that every child have a safe and healthy home, sadly this is not the reality in our society, especially so in the North. When there is a child in need of alternative care, often we rely on foster families to step in and fill the need.

In an effort to raise awareness and encourage caring individuals to become foster parents, and to encourage leaders to work within their communities to provide support to families in need, Yellowknife Foster Families Association is launching a Foster Doll Awareness Campaign. As long as we need foster families, it is in the best interest of the children that they are placed as close to their own communities as possible. In order to make that possible, we need foster families in as many communities as possible, Mr. Speaker.

Starting tomorrow, until November 2nd, I will be joining a number of other individuals and leaders representing various sectors of our communities, who will each look after a foster doll with widely differing cultural, language and social backgrounds.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that my foster doll is a 12-year-old girl named Pat, who is originally from Tuktoyaktuk. She has been in care for four years, and she suffers from FAS effect. She is very shy and polite, but has high energy and is missing her mother very much.

Mr. Speaker, part of my duty in being involved with this project is to take her around to places that I go to. That means that although I cannot bring her to this chamber, she will be going to a lot of meetings with me, including the FASD conference being held this weekend. I will also be writing mini journals to keep a record of her travels and experiences.

In doing so, Mr. Speaker, it is my sincere hope that people will see, and become more aware, of the need to honour the needs of our children in care. I will be able to show my appreciation to the foster parents in our communities who, like my colleague from Hay River South, Mrs.

Groenewegen, who was once a foster parent, opened their homes and hearts to take care of children who really need not only a safe home, but love of a family. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Yellowknife Foster Family Association Public Awareness Campaign

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 339

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Member's statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Members' Statement On Decline Of Caribou Populations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 339

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to discuss an important issue that is of concern to my constituents and the residents of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, I am talking about the recent decline of the caribou. The decline in the number of caribou, in particular the Cape Bathurst, Bluenose West and Bluenose east herds. The Department of Environment and Natural Resources conducted a photo census survey in July 2005. The numbers, to date, for Cape Bathurst are 10,013 to 2,362 from 2000 to 2005; Bluenose West, 74,273 to 20,801; and the Bluenose East, from 104,000 to 66,584 from 2000 to 2005, respectively.

...(inaudible)...and the Gwich'in and the Department of Environment and Natural Resources held a joint meeting in Whitehorse recently, where ENR provided a slide presentation on the recent 2005 caribou photo census survey.

Mr. Speaker, prior to the start of this session, Mr. McLeod, MLA for Inuvik Twin Lakes, and I were briefed by the Department of ENR in Inuvik on the slide presentation, which was the presentation they intended to take to the communities in the Beaufort-Delta.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Inuvialuit Game Council, Gwich'in Renewable Resource Management Board, and the Department of ENR traveled to Paulatuk and Tuktoyaktuk to discuss this 2005 survey.

Mr. Speaker, the decline of the caribou numbers is of concern to the Beaufort-Delta and, as well, the rest of the Northwest Territories. I have spoken to an elder, and one item of interest is probably migration changes, but, most importantly, may be the survey process; for example, helicopter use or fixed wing may be one of the many factors for caribou migration patterns.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, this is a concern to all residents, and I compliment the Department of Environment and Natural Resources in traveling with the aboriginal claimant groups to discuss the 2005 survey. I look forward to seeing the recommendations from the consultation process, and also the next photo census survey that will be conducted in 2006 of these herds. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Members' Statement On Decline Of Caribou Populations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 339

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Day Care Services For Parents Attending School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 339

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker...(Translation not provided)

(Translation)...day care in Fort Smith was emphasized yesterday by my colleague from Range Lake.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I received an e-mail from one of my constituents: a single parent attending the Aurora College in Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, there are currently three of my constituents who are attending school in Fort Smith, and they have families. I am proud to say that these students are studying to become teachers, and that they are very concerned about the closure of the day care. This is a cause for concern.

I ask, Mr. Speaker, where these students will turn for the needed childcare service, after the closure of the day care on the 28th of October. There are three students that are in school and were there to help them but, Mr. Speaker, these are parents who are new to the college system. Why must we put the burden on them as they seek advanced learning?

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment admitted in the House that the NWT needs a strategy to deal with infrastructure of more day care centres. When he talked about this strategy, he said while the solution involves community partnership, he will ensure that his department staff will be available for the communities, and to work with the community leaders on finding results. If these results are part of department's concern, why is the day care centre in Fort Smith -- one of our central communities serving our college students -- being permanently closed in 10 days?

We are here to help and serve the students in terms of the day care. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Day Care Services For Parents Attending School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 339

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Affordable Housing In Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 339

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a few years ago I was elected as the representative for the Sahtu region. In the past couple of years, the highest area of concern in my region has been affordable housing units, along with the number of houses being built in our communities.

Mr. Speaker, there is an old saying, "Home is where the heart is." People have a lot of concerns in regards to...

---Phone ringing

I'm certainly hoping that that wasn't for me, Mr. Speaker.

---Laughter

I was very surprised, Mr. Speaker, when I saw the recent housing survey results in the Sahtu region, that the Sahtu had the highest core need of all the regions, at 28 percent.

The good news, however, Mr. Speaker, is that the Housing Corporation has dropped that from 35 percent since 2000. For example, in Colville Lake, 76 percent of homes are still in core need; by far the highest in the Northwest Territories. Wrigley is next, at 50 percent in core need. One hundred percent of Colville Lake homes have problems with adequacy. There is lots of work to do in our homes in the Sahtu region. Core need in Deline is at 42 percent; 37 percent in Fort Good Hope; 36 percent in Tulita; and 9 percent in Norman Wells.

Mr. Speaker, we have a long way to go; however, there is some good news, I understand, from Housing Corporation, that we have a fully staffed up district office to help our communities, and that programs now need to be looked at that will fit the communities' needs and their various ideas in how to best bring down these numbers.

Mr. Speaker, I know there is a lot of work to be done in housing; however, in my time, I have seen the numbers decrease. There is some support in the Housing Association, so as much as I want to talk about the work that needs to be done in housing, I also want to say thank you to the Minister and his staff for bringing down these numbers in the Sahtu region. Again, I want to thank the staff there. Thank you.

---Applause

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Affordable Housing In Small Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 340

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Taltson Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 340

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about the important Taltson hydro expansion project this government is working to develop over the next few years. Mr. Speaker, I cannot express the important significance of this initiative enough. Not only does it affect the residents of Tu Nedhe, the people of the Northwest Territories, but also all of Canada because of the potential positive impacts to our environment if addressed with some degree of urgency by this government.

Mr. Speaker, currently there are three mines -- Diavik, BHP and De Beers --operating in the Tu Nedhe area. All are using fossil fuels to operate in our delicate northern environment, with a possibility of three more mines, the Gahcho Kue, the Jericho, and the Dry Bones coming on stream within the next five years. These mines will also be operating on fossil fuels unless we, as a government, place more stringent demands on industry to incorporate the policy and hydro initiatives into their long-term plans.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that the environmental benefits to be derived from this hydro development surely outweigh the cost to be incurred by industry should they be required to hook up to the hydro line. This gap will continue to grow, given the rising costs of energy; in particular, fossil fuels.

Mr. Speaker, these industries alone are taking $1 million each day from each mine, with approximately $3 million a day from the Northwest Territories, leaving northerners with some crumbs, a few rough diamonds, and a lot of low level jobs and tons of greenhouse gas emissions; emissions that will be directly attributable to the extinction of one of our true northern icons, the polar bear, in less than 50 years if we let this practice continue.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to stress to this government that we can no longer sit back and be driven by industrial practices which seem to dictate what directions we, as a government, should take. We have to be more aggressive in finding agreeable solutions that will keep the NWT at the helm when developing environmentally sound and respectful solutions that do not lead to the demise of what this last great frontier personifies: that being, respect for the environment, respect for the wildlife, and a continued traditional northern way of life. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Taltson Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 340

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Childcare And Early Childhood Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 340

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. One of the key messages included in the pre-budget consultation report that your committee had the pleasure of introducing yesterday was about the importance of early childhood development programs. We all know that this is an upfront investment. When we make an investment in our children, it certainly pays off down the road.

A number of organizations, including the NWT Status of Women Council and Alternatives North, made note of the need for this government to continue to lobby the federal government for a fair allocation of childcare dollars to the NWT. Mr. Speaker, as the NWT Status of Women Council wrote in their submission, access to childcare is an essential factor in achieving economic equality for women, and in maximizing the potential of the NWT labour force. Early in their new term, Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government announced a $5 billion commitment for a national childcare system.

It is my understanding that the federal government -- the Minister Ken Dryden -- continued to insist, though, that the Government of the NWT accept a per capita allocation of this funding. This is not acceptable.

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Childcare And Early Childhood Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 340

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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Childcare And Early Childhood Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 340

Bill Braden

Great Slave

The costs of providing childcare in the North are clearly higher than in other parts of the country. The Government of the NWT has been working closely with other territories to hammer out a deal with Canada that would provide adequate base funding to make a real difference in providing this critically needed programming in the North. We have seen the federal government recognize our unique health challenges, such as with the Health Care Accord reached last fall. The Early Learning and Childcare Agreement that has been in place in this government since 2001 serves as a framework for the strengthening of licensed programs for children.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that our Minister, Charles Dent , will be in Ottawa this week to meet with his territorial and provincial counterparts, as well as Minister Dryden from Canada. I would urge Minister Dent and this government to continue to press the federal government to fund childcare programs in a manner that recognizes the higher

cost of providing these services here in the NWT. Anything else is not acceptable. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Childcare And Early Childhood Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Workers' Compensation Board Office Complex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The subject I would like to speak about today is the proposed new Workers' Compensation Board office complex that is currently being entertained by the WCB. The Minister responsible has not presented any type of rationale or business case for this happening. The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development is finally going to be briefed next Wednesday, a day before this session concludes. It is only because, Mr. Speaker, we asked him for the briefing; he didn't offer it.

Mr. Speaker, I do not take issue with the WCB wanting to have its own building if it makes financial sense to do so. What I am taking issue with is how the WCB seems to be going about it. I have heard that the WCB was asking the City for Bartam Trailer Park. I know that they are also interested in the old Gerry Murphy Arena site here in the City of Yellowknife. Seeing as the City had no waterfront property, the WCB has gone out for an expression of interest to source some land. An expression of interest, Mr. Speaker, obviously has guidelines that have to be followed.

It would appear that the WCB did not even follow its own criteria and guidelines when it found a very nice piece of waterfront property. The only problem with this property, Mr. Speaker, is that it does not meet the zoning requirements as specified in their own guidelines in the expression of interest. The WCB is actively robbing the City of Yellowknife to rezone this piece of land. This property is located behind the existing development in the Saan/Quizno complex. From my understanding, the WCB is looking for 80 parking stalls and a rezoning of the property so they can build this new office complex.

Mr. Speaker, I have to ask, what about downtown revitalization here in the city of Yellowknife? The WCB is looking at taking 100 jobs. That is 100 jobs out of the downtown core here in Yellowknife and moving them to an area of the city that is already plagued by traffic congestion. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know why we wouldn't want to continue to maintain a central location easily accessible for injured workers. I want to know what efforts were undertaken to keep the office in the downtown core. There are options; even some that I am aware of that should have been explored. I am wondering why the WCB is bent on having a waterfront address.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Workers' Compensation Board Office Complex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Ramsay .

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Workers' Compensation Board Office Complex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I am wondering why the WCB is so intent on having this waterfront address. The last time I looked, employer premiums were increasing, and injured workers were still feeling that the process and the bureaucracy were treating them badly and poorly. How can the WCB justify the building of this waterfront castle? They even stated that they will maintain public walking trails within the vicinity of this new building, and all of this on the back of the injured worker and the employers paying ever-increasing premiums. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Thank you.

---Applause

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Workers' Compensation Board Office Complex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Investing In The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are some loud rumours out there that say Imperial Oil is seriously considering pulling out of the oil and gas project. The rumour mill says that, despite the potential $500 million that the federal government has put on the table, Imperial still contends that the demands from the access and benefit agreement negotiations are still too high. Imperial Oil has not budged an inch, and they are not prepared to offer any more to the claimant groups, from what I have heard. If something is not done soon, in my opinion, the current plans to establish a pipeline in the NWT will be in serious jeopardy, and put into a holding pattern for the next 30 years.

My concern is that this Government of the Northwest Territories has invested serious dollars into preparing for the pipeline. Almost every department has created at least one position in pipeline readiness and some of that in several positions. At last count, in the March budget, there were approximately 30 positions across the Territories devoted entirely or partially to the pipeline. This government has invested considerable people hours from the existing staff to investing heavily in the $1 million office in Hay River.

MACA has doled out over $1 million of funding to communities to help deal with expected impacts of the pipeline, not to mention the money that has gone towards negotiations and pipeline agreements.

If this pipeline comes, Mr. Speaker, all of this money will have been considered well invested. If this pipeline does not come, this money will have gone down the drain. This government has already stated that without the pipeline, we will find ourselves in a serious financial situation.

So, Mr. Speaker, in closing, I am very concerned what will happen to the significant investment in establishing numerous positions and spending a lot of money on getting ready for a pipeline that is simply just a pipe dream. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Investing In The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Condition Of The Dempster Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 341

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I had a good statement and some questions, but

then I just realized that the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment wasn't here, so I will have to save those until Friday. I was trying to come up with a topic that I have been hearing a lot about in my time in Inuvik. One of the main complaints I had from Inuvik, and people that drive it, is the condition of the Dempster Highway.

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Condition Of The Dempster Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 342

Some Hon. Members

Boo!

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Condition Of The Dempster Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 342

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

I have been hearing many complaints from people about the highway, and having the opportunity to travel that highway since 1984, this is the worst that I have ever seen it. It is worse than a goat trail. Many experienced drivers have told me that they travel this highway all the time. This is the worst they have ever seen it, because of the condition.

There have been a few accidents on the highway because of the condition of the road. I read with some interest the

article that was in the paper regarding 12 kilometres left to pave on Highway No. 3. We would like to have 12 kilometres of dust control on the Dempster.

---Laughter

---Applause

We would like to have 12 kilometres without barrel-sized potholes, and 12 kilometres where we can put it on cruise control.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, with all the traffic that is going to be on this highway within the next couple of years with the pipeline -- and there is going to be pipeline -- this government has to improve the condition of the road. There is some work going on it right now, but that work, Mr. Speaker, as far as I am concerned, is not enough. There is going to be more work that needs to be done on this highway. We have to keep these highways safe for all residents of the NWT, not just Highway No. 3. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Condition Of The Dempster Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 342

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Condition Of The Dempster Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 342

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I would caution Members from making reference to Members who are absent from the House. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to recognize a constituent of mine, and chairman of the WCB, Mr. Denny Rodgers. We welcome him to the Assembly. His daughter is one of our Pages today.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to introduce and recognize somebody in the gallery, my constituency assistant, Dan, from Inuvik; Brenda Dillon; as well as also recognizing Mr. McLeod's constituency assistant, Meeka Kisoun.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize one of my sisters here in the gallery, Mrs. Molly Nogasak. With her is her daughter, Priscilla Nogasak. I would also like to recognize Mrs. Brenda Dillon, CA for Mr. Roland . Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize someone who has already been recognized, but in doing so, I may have to let out a personal secret, or whatever.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

Some Hon. Members

Oh!

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 342

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we have missed anybody in the gallery today, welcome to the gallery. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly. It is always nice to have an audience here. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for the Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 342

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement, I talked about the housing situation in the Sahtu. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services on the facility in Deline. There is an elders' long-term care facility that is not being utilized, as Mrs. Groenewegen has indicated in her statement, to the fullest extent. This situation has gone on for a number of years. My constituents are asking for a resolution. Can the Minister of Health and Social Services inform this Assembly of the current status of the long-term care facility in Deline, and of any plans the department has for maximizing its utilization? Thank you.

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Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 342

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there has been a working group comprised of officials from the department and from the Sahtu region, as well as a community member from Deline, looking at the best use for this facility. Initially, there was a thought and suggestion that we should be looking at a long-term care facility. What has come out of the work that has been done there are a number of things.

Firstly, in order to get a better assessment of the level of need among the elders, they did a thorough review in the region of every elder and their acuity level, which came back with information that indicated the first priority was an increase of home care, which we are working with the Sahtu board to deliver.

Regarding the Deline facility itself, for the most part, 10 of the units are currently in use as independent living units. The suggestion now is that we look at converting the remaining six, and modify them to four independent living units. If that is not going to be a feasible option, there is a possibility of using that

section of the facility that is currently underutilized as a place to be able to locate or co-locate a number of services and programs that are already currently in Deline. Thank you.

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Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister's response. People in the Sahtu and people in Deline will be happy in terms of the potential use of that facility in Deline. In terms of timetables and time frames, when can the people in Deline expect some movement or some shift in the use of this six-unit facility, should the community and the department prove to go ahead with utilizing that facility? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that we are just waiting for some final confirmation from the community member that was on the committee, at which point we would be able to build the next steps into the planning processes. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once the final confirmation from the community of Deline and the departments that are associated in utilizing this facility he says build into a planning process...What is the planning process? Is it one year, two years, four years? What is the planning process? Can people in Deline actually see some tangible things happening around that facility in terms of seeing it being operated in that fashion? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the important first step is almost complete, which is to finally have a comprehensive plan for the facility which also includes, as I indicated, a review of the acuity levels of all of the elders in the Sahtu region. When we get the final agreement in terms of the options, then we can determine the costs. Based on that, we can see how fast we can move on that part of the six-unit piece. I know the Housing Corporation is very interested and is willing to be, and has been, a partner in this project from the start. We are going to work together to move on this as quickly as we can. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister, for outlining the road map in terms of actually seeing something happen in this facility. Again, I want to ask the Minister, when can the people in Deline see some actual operations in those six units? Is it going to be two months? Is it going to be two years, three years? When, I guess, will this all come together so the people in Deline can actually see that facility being opened and used by the people in the Sahtu? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated to the Member, once we get the final document, and we agree on the course of action in conjunction with all the stakeholders who are involved in the committee, then we will be able to determine how fast we can move on whatever course of action is determined to be the best. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Question 142-15(4): Status Of Long-term Care Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 343

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mr. Speaker... (Translation) At this time, I'd like say I'm sorry that my phone rang, but maybe the call was from Fort Smith.

Mr. Speaker, it takes a lot of effort, patience and persistence to find the right high chair match for a child in your home community. You can well imagine, Mr. Speaker, the time and effort it would take to locate and interview, and select and pay an individual that will meet your child's and your family's needs when you are living outside of your home community. Compound this with the fact that if you are a student or a single parent, you can

well imagine, Mr. Speaker, the stress this structure might have on you. So my question, Mr. Speaker, is what is the department's immediate plan to meet these needs? Next week, I believe, is the closure of the day care. What will the Minister do about it between now and next week about the closure of the day care in Fort Smith? Thank you.

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Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . I'm not sure what Minister I'll address your question to. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member may know, the day care he is speaking of is a society that is not in the direct responsibility of the government. There are some issues that it is facing, the main one being a financial one. The director of the day care, I understand, is putting together the financial records. We haven't seen them yet, so I don't know the detail on their financial status, but I understand that the day care is at risk of closing very shortly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

(Translation) Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that you are right, so I know that we do help the students with student financial assistance. On top of helping with the student financial assistance, the organization is under the government, but I don't want any of my students to drop out and any of my constituents who are in courses to drop out. What is the Minister willing to do about it?

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Supplementary To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I wasn't sure what the question was, but, Mr. Speaker, the closure of the day care will create a disruption for students who have young children, preschoolers and babies. But, Mr. Speaker, we have to wait for the records, we have to know what is happening with that particular day care before any decision can be made on it. Mr. Speaker, I should say, there are a number of day homes in Fort Smith, and I'm sure the college people would be ready to help any parents who are students in trying to find a suitable day home where their preschoolers and babies can be kept in the interim until this other business is sorted out. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Premier . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

(Translation) Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm talking about the students, I'm talking on behalf of the Tlicho students, the students from the Tlicho region, the Deh Cho, Sahtu, and Yellowknife. What will the department do specifically for the students living outside their communities, such as the students from the Akaitcho, the Tlicho, the Deh Cho, the Sahtu? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, when students apply for student financial assistance, their family status and their needs are taken into consideration. So if it is a family who have preschool-aged children who need to be taken care of while the college student is at class, we take that into consideration. We do provide support, as a government, to all of the licensed day cares, and in this case, we're supporting this one Mr. Lafferty is speaking about. If it's needed for these children to be placed in day homes, then, of course, that would be taken into consideration as well.

Now I would urge students at the college to talk with the college staff and get help in finding day homes in the event that this day care closes its doors soon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Your final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

(Translation) Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm talking about the three students from the Tlicho region. I know that next week there will be no more day care. What is the Premier saying he's willing to do? Another question is, what has the department done to ensure these parents are being resourced to help with the day care services?

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Supplementary To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, let me say, first of all, that we want the students to continue with their education. We will do whatever we can to make sure that it is possible for them to continue, and for their preschool-aged children to be properly cared for while they're at classes. Mr. Speaker, the college will help the individuals find a suitable day home. Second, Mr. Speaker, if there is a need for additional resources, then that is something the students should be talking to student financial assistance about and, again, I'm sure the college will be prepared to help them with that, as well. Most importantly, we want to see those students continue their schooling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Question 143-15(4): Day Care Services For Fort Smith Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 344

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are to the Minister of the Housing Corporation , the Honourable David Krutko . I will start, Mr. Speaker, by saying that I realize that this empire that has developed over the years of the NWT Housing

Corporation did not all occur on this Minister's watch, and he has fairly recently taken responsibility for this. However, he is now the point man for the NWT Housing Corporation, and the buck stops with him. So that's why I direct my questions to him. I would like to talk first about the cost of operating the headquarters of the NWT Housing Corporation. We know that the capital dollars and operational dollars for housing needs in the North are limited. I, obviously, am of the opinion that there are too many people. How many people are employed in the headquarters of the NWT Housing Corporation? Thank you.

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Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation , Mr. Krutko .

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Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the headquarters and the operation of the Housing Corporation, roughly the total budget is in the range of seven percent, which is a lot lower than other departments. A majority of our expenses are spent in the communities, and we have a district staff roughly in the range of five percent of the budget. So between the district offices and the headquarters office, you're looking at just a little over 10 percent, which, compared to other departments, is very low.

I think that you have to realize that almost 85 percent of our budget is expended in our communities to run the operations of providing housing in communities and elsewhere in the North. I'd just like to point that out to the Member, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Seven percent in headquarters and five percent in the district offices; just doing the math, not to challenge the Minister, but that is 12 percent not 10 percent. This is a capital-intensive corporation. The money should be going to capital. There are not a lot of operations issues. Of course, might I also say I have no issue with the staff located in the districts. I'm talking about the staff in headquarters, and I'd like to know the number. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at this time, I don't have that detail here, but I'd like to offer that to the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently $30 million of the Housing Corporation money has been transferred to ECE. Was there a reduction in the staff numbers in headquarters as a result of that transfer? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, we have reduced in the area of, as we all know, the human resources section. That has now been centralized, so there has been a decline in the human resources positions of the department due to the centralization throughout government departments. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the consolidation of the human resources function is something that has happened government-wide. Every department gave up human resources people. Besides the human resources people, has there been any reduction in the staff at headquarters as a result of this transfer of money to ECE and the recent contracting out by the Housing Corporation? Thank you.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there has been no contracting out. All the work has been done in house with the resources we do have. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The Nwt Housing Corporation

Question 144-15(4): Operational Costs Of The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we all know that the Premier 's favourite subjects are devolution, hydro and, definitely, pipeline. So my questions that I'd like to ask today to the Premier are what actions this government will be taking, if any, to prevent Imperial Oil from backing out or postponing the Mackenzie Valley pipeline project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 345

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, if Imperial were to decide not to proceed with the pipeline, there is nothing we could do. That is a board of directors of Imperial's decision, and they are not required to build a pipeline. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, there is a lot that we're

doing in order to encourage the building of that pipeline. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Premier tell us today how much money, to date, this government has spent on pipeline preparedness? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I can't tell you how much the government has spent in total in preparation for the pipeline, because all of our departments, almost without exception, have been involved in some way or another. We have all spent time on this issue. As well, Mr. Speaker, it would take a lot of time to pull that kind of information together. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm concerned that there's no backup plan if the pipeline doesn't go through. Can the Premier tell me what will happen to this investment if the pipeline doesn't go ahead? Will we have any long-term plan for the benefits that we've been studying or thinking about?

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Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, diversification of our economy has long been a goal of our government. We have a very active diamond mining industry. We have a lot of exploration going on for other kinds of minerals. There are two or three pipelines coming out of the Territories right now: two coming out of the Deh Cho and one from Norman Wells. Mr. Speaker, I expect that everything isn't going to come to a stop if we don't have the pipeline. But, Mr.

Speaker, it would be a sad day if we don't see the pipeline, in my view, because this one does represent a huge opportunity that would be lost, and we would see many of the people living, particularly in the smaller communities along the valley, who would be hard pressed to find employment and self-sufficiency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Referring to my Member's statement, I pointed out that there were more than 30 positions that have mushroomed all about pipeline preparedness. So millions of dollars are being poured into this. What, if any, is the strategy for the long term with respect to these pipeline preparedness positions, keeping in mind that this pipeline may never go through? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Joe Handley

Weledeh

I'm not sure where the Member is getting information that the pipeline is not going to go ahead, because all of the indications that I have are that Imperial wants to build the pipeline, that aboriginal leaders want the pipeline, our government wants the pipeline, the federal government wants the pipeline, and I believe that it is going to go ahead. Having said that, we have invested a lot of money in pipeline preparedness and training people on the anticipation that this will happen. I'm still of the view it is going to happen. But, Mr.

Speaker, as I said, if it doesn't go ahead for some reason, then I think it is a sad day, because there will not be the jobs, and there will not be the revenues to our government and aboriginal governments and to people throughout the Territories that we would have if this did happen. Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize that we are working on the information that this pipeline will happen. We are in the middle of serious negotiations, and I fully expect that it is going to proceed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the honourable Premier , and it goes back to my Member's statement from earlier today. I'm just wondering if the Premier knows, or can tell us, what type of consultation took place between the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board and the Minister responsible, in terms of this new office building. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 346

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me clarify that the Housing Corporation is an entity that is a corporate...Oh, sorry. I'm sorry.

---Laughter

I apologize, Mr. Speaker. The Workers' Compensation Board is a corporate entity that is separate from government. They operate on a basis of collecting premiums and then paying out compensation for workers who are injured from that premium. The Minister responsible is the Minister responsible for the act, and he manages the overall legislative direction to the Workers' Compensation Board. The Workers' Compensation Board

would have advised the Minister of this proposed investment.

Mr. Speaker, I want to also say that I congratulate the Workers' Compensation Board for taking some of its investments and considering how it can invest in the North. There was a time when the investments were largely elsewhere, and that was something that was of concern to us as a government. In terms of the detail of this consultation, the Minister has been advised that the Workers' Compensation Board has talked with the Yellowknife and Northwest Territories chambers of commerce; they have talked with the NWT Construction Association, the NWT Chambers of Mines, and the NWT Federation of Labour.

I'm not sure who else, but those are the individuals they have talked to, at least, and I'm sure they've also spoken with the City. There has been a fair bit of discussion on this proposed investment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess it's kind of the same as when Regular Members have to deal with injured workers and we feel completely left out of the process. If the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board was advised of this type of investment taking place, I'm wondering why he didn't advise us, and we had to ask him and request from him a meeting to go over the business case for such a move.

Does the government or Premier feel that it makes sense to allow the Workers' Compensation Board to build this office complex outside of the downtown business core of the city of Yellowknife; the capital city? Does it make sense to move this office and 100 workers outside of the downtown core? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . I'm going to rule that question out of order. It's asking the Premier for an opinion. Do you want to rephrase your question, Mr. Ramsay , or follow-up supplementary? Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'll rephrase my question for the Premier . Does the Premier and the government feel that they should support the downtown capital area of this, Yellowknife, capital city of the Northwest Territories, by maintaining the Workers' Compensation Board and the 100 jobs they represent be in the downtown core? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government has been monitoring what is happening. We have not become directly involved. Certainly, the core area of Yellowknife and its future is of concern to all the citizens of Yellowknife, the same as it would be of any residents of any other town or any other city. What's happening to the core area? What should stay in the core area, and what should possibly be moved out? There are individuals who have talked to me about it and have expressed their concern that this is one more move toward destroying our downtown. So there are certainly people who would prefer to see it here. Mr.

Speaker, I intend to speak directly with the mayor about this issue, and I recognize the planning for the city is really within the mayor and council's jurisdiction directly, not ours as a government, but we certainly have views with regard to the future of any of our urban areas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to ask the Premier , I guess for Regular Members, what is our best course of action in trying to communicate to the Workers' Compensation Board that, as a Yellowknife MLA, I feel the 100 jobs should be downtown? I think we should pay attention to the revitalization project that's taking place downtown, and try to maintain these jobs downtown. I'm wondering if the government should write letters to the Workers' Compensation Board chairman. Should we talk to the mayor? Who is going to take up that fight on the government's side of things? Is it going to be the Minister responsible, or is it going to be the Premier ? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . A couple or three questions there. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think any of the Legislative Assembly Members who want to take up this issue should take it up with the chairman and the board for the Workers' Compensation Board, as well as the City. It is my understanding that this land that the Workers' Compensation Board is interested in would have to be rezoned. That's an issue that the city council will have to deal with, and certainly you have every right and responsibility to speak to the mayor and council on this issue if you wish. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

That's okay.

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Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed Wcb Office Complex

Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 347

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is also directed to our honourable Premier , Joe Handley , in regards to the Taltson expansion project. I know the government has recently approved something to the tune of $1.4 million toward the environmental and geotechnical work that the Taltson expansion project is to undergo. I just want to ask the Minister, I guess, from his last dealings with industry with respect to getting them to hook into this Taltson expansion project, what is the status

of those current negotiations today, and where does the government stand on that issue? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is certainly interest in the possibility of hooking into hydro power by the existing mines, as well as the one that's under construction. There have been regular meetings going on as recently as last Friday. There was a meeting between our officials and the Power Corporation and the representatives of all three diamond mines: Ekati, Diavik, and DeBeers. They are looking at the economic viability of it. Of course, the mines will participate, both for environmental reasons as well as cost, as long as this is something that is favourable to their bottom line, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess, just from looking at the mines' bottom line, we have a lot of room to play here. I was just wondering if the Premier could let me know, and maybe let the House know, who is on this negotiating team, and if this team has anybody representing the Akaitcho Territory and the South Slave Metis and Lutselk'e and Deninu Kue First Nations. Is there anybody on that negotiating team, along with the Power Corporation, to negotiate with the mines? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The individuals who are doing the work on our behalf -- and at this point it is not formal negotiations, but more looking at the detail, the complexities of it, the issues, and, of course, trying to arrive at a bottom line of the viability -- is made up of a number of senior officials, including the deputy minister of ITI, the president of the Power Corporation, a representative of the Energy Corporation, which is a subsidiary of the Power Corporation, and Lew Voytilla, who is with our Financial Management Board Secretariat. Mr.

Don Balsillie was also at the meeting and participating, and I'm not sure exactly his capacity and who he is representing at the meetings. Yes, there was a representative in Don Balsillie. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 348

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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