Debates of March 5th, 2014

This is page numbers 4183 – 4224 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was services .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Report On Efforts Of The Legal Aid Outreach Lawyer

Condolences On The Passing Of Sahtu Residents Michael Kochon And Craig Scott

Gymnasium For Ecole Boreale

Gymnasium Facilities For Hay River Schools

Schools In Small Communities

Moose Kerr School

Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Elimination Of Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Standing Committee On Government Operations Update

Hay River School Exchange

Hay River School Exchange

Moose Kerr School

Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Tobacco Tax And Collection

Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Return To Written Question 8-17(5): Human Resource Funding Transfers And Reallocations

Return To Written Question 9-17(5): Dormant GNWT Positions

Bill 1: Reindeer Act Bill 2: Archeological Sites Act Bill 3: Surface Rights Board Act

Tabled Document 59-17(5): Government Of The Northwest Territories Response To Motion 6-17(5), Strengthening Municipal Enforcement Of Liquor Laws

Tabled Document 60-17(5): Annual Report – NWT Legislative Assembly Pension Plans, March 31, 2014

Public Access To Automated External Defibrillators

Bill 19: Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), 2014-2015

Training For Early Childhood Education Workers

Motion To Amend Motion 13-17(5): Training For Early Childhood Education Workers

Amendment To Motion To Amend Motion 13-17(5), Training For Early Childhood Education Workers

Motion To Amend Motion 13-17(5): Training For Early Childhood Education Workers

Bill 15: Oil And Gas Operations Act

Bill 16: Northwest Territories Intergovernmental Agreement On Lands And Resources Management Act

Bill 17: Northwest Territories Intergovernmental Agreement On Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement Act

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Concurrence Of Tabled Document 44-17(5): Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2013-2014

Concurrence Of Tabled Document 45-17(5), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2014-2015

Concurrence Of Tabled Document 51-17(5), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2012-2013

Concurrence Of Tabled Document 52-17(5), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2013-2014

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Abernethy .

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Minister's Statement 50-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Ministers’ Statements

Great Slave

Glen Abernethy

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Auditor General of Canada’s Report on Child and Family Services was tabled in this House. The Auditor General’s findings indicate that the health and social services system is not adequately meeting its key responsibilities for the protection and well-being of children, youth and families. This is a serious concern for all of us.

The conclusions in the report confirm the findings of the 16th Legislative Assembly’s Standing

Committee on Social Programs’ review of the Child and Family Services Act. As a participant in that review, I care deeply about ensuring that we take aggressive action to improve our supports to children and families. The department has accepted all of the Auditor General’s recommendations, and in many cases work has already begun. Although the Auditor General’s findings tell us that we have not made enough progress, nor moved fast enough, there has in fact been substantial foundational work already done to respond to the 16th Assembly’s report.

Mr. Speaker, that report recognized that most cases of child protection do not involve abuse, but involve neglect of children due to factors such as addictions and poverty. It emphasized the need to build stronger supports for communities and families and, in this spirit, provided eight essential recommendations that were seen as foundational for improving the system. We have made significant progress on some of these:

• We have completed an updated Early

Childhood Development Framework and Action

Plan that emphasizes support to families. The Healthy Family Program has been expanded to every region of the territory and work is underway to adapt it for smaller communities. We are funding early childhood programs at transitional housing in Yellowknife to support the most vulnerable families from across the territory. We will establish an early intervention service to provide direct support to families.

• We have made significant new investments to

address addictions by expanding the options available to our residents. We have listened to the communities and are putting in place on-the-land healing options. We have put in place a system to fast-track referrals to addictions treatment.

• Based on recommendations of both the 16th and

17th Legislative Assemblies, we have developed

an Anti-Poverty Strategy, and completed an action plan that includes supports for child and youth resiliency and programs to provide nutritious food.

Recognizing that 90 percent of children in care are Aboriginal, our new Aboriginal health and community wellness division is focusing their efforts on working with communities to support inter-agency committees and develop community-based solutions for supporting families.

Mr. Speaker, taken together, all these initiatives will help us to reach our ultimate goal of ensuring that no child needs to take advantage of child protection services.

But we know that day is a long way off, and the department has also worked hard to respond to many of the recommendations from the 16th Assembly that speak directly to improving our child protection programs.

Tremendous effort has been put into working with communities to try to establish child and family service committees over the past three years. Staff were dedicated to this project, and explicit direction was given to health and social services authorities to make this a priority. Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to report that, despite years of effort, there are no child and family services committees currently operational. What we heard from communities is that the model proposed in our current legislation simply will not work. Communities are concerned

about financial and legal requirements, about capacity and about the difficult task of engaging in making tough decisions about the lives of friends and family. We need to find a better way to achieve the goal of giving communities a role in supporting families in need.

But many other recommendations of the report have been addressed:

• Plain-language materials have been developed

and are available in Aboriginal languages to explain to families what services are available and how they can access them.

• Statutory training programs for child protection

workers have been updated to reflect best practices, and a new training program has been developed to target senior managers in health and services authorities, including chief executive officers.

• A business case was completed for a new child

and family information system, and funding is included in the 2014-2015 Capital Estimates. This project, estimated to be complete within three years, will greatly improve the authorities’ and department’s ability to monitor compliance with policy and regulation and ensure appropriate follow-up on individual cases.

• The report included recommendations for

numerous amendments to the Child and Family Services Act. A legislative proposal has been completed, drafting is underway and we intend to bring forward this legislation in February of 2015.

• Revisions to the Child and Family Services

Standards and Procedures Manual, which provides guidance to child protection workers across all regions, are nearly complete and will be distributed this summer. These amendments will include a new approach to child and family services committees, and potentially an expanded role for committees.

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General’s report speaks to the lack of accountability within the health and social services system. This is a bigger issue and affects our ability to guarantee consistent and effective program delivery in all our mandate areas. As I have informed this House, I intend to bring forward legislation to improve and enhance accountability.

Mr. Speaker, there has been progress, but I acknowledge that it is not enough. Since becoming Minister four months ago, I have directed the department to take immediate action to designate chief executive officers of authorities as assistant directors of child and family services under the act. This appointment will make them directly responsible for ensuring that our system does not drop the ball on any child welfare case. I will be

directing the chairs and public administrators of authorities to ensure that this is included in the CEOs’ performance objectives and that improvements are monitored.

I have directed the department to fill the gap with respect to annual reports which, as the Auditor General noted, have not been provided to the Minister for over a decade. Beginning this year, I have directed that I receive a report by October of each year, which can be tabled in this Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General’s website tells us that the purpose of their reports is to achieve positive change. I intend to use this report and recommendations to do just that. I intend to work with the Standing Committee on Social Programs not only to build on the recommendations in the Auditor General’s report but to build a system of supports for children and families that ensures every child in the Northwest Territories is safe and that their families are supported. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 50-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . Minister of Justice , Mr. Ramsay .

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Minister's Statement 51-17(5): Report On Efforts Of The Legal Aid Outreach Lawyer

Ministers’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, our Legal Aid program is one of the best in the country. We are pleased that the Department of Justice and the Legal Services Board have expanded their scope of coverage to provide legal support for civil law matters through the services of a legal aid outreach lawyer. We realize people in need require additional support to deal with family or other civil law matters to reach their full potential.

Mr. Speaker, the Legal Services Board started the Legal Aid Outreach Program as a pilot project in 2010 and it has run continually since that time. Outreach services address legal issues that can affect someone’s livelihood, physical or mental health. It’s a streamlined, simplified service that provides direct support and appropriate referrals.

These services may be accessed by anyone in several ways. In Yellowknife, clinics are run every Tuesday for anyone who needs to receive some free basic legal advice. Additionally, the legal aid outreach lawyer travels to NWT communities in order to allow people to have access to justice through clinics or information sessions.

The legal aid outreach lawyer helps residents with issues relating to employment and disabilities, preparation of wills, housing and landlord-tenant disputes, mental health and guardianship applications as well as child protection and elder abuse.

Working closely with court workers, sessions are tailored to take a community’s interests and needs

into consideration. For example, we have heard from the court worker in Fort Good Hope that the elders there are very interested in the preparation of wills and powers of attorney. The legal aid outreach lawyer will be delivering a presentation on wills and then scheduling individual appointments for those who are interested. A general clinic will be scheduled for people who have interest in other legal issues. That trip is planned for the last week of this month.

Earlier this year clinics were provided in Fort Simpson and Wrigley. Services will be available in Fort Smith next week and the legal aid outreach lawyer is planning a visit to Deline in the near future.

We are committed to improving access to justice. Through this program, we are providing support to those who need it the most and building on the strengths of Northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 51-17(5): Report On Efforts Of The Legal Aid Outreach Lawyer

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Condolences On The Passing Of Sahtu Residents Michael Kochon And Craig Scott

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning I received some sad news from the Sahtu. I stand here with a heavy heart with my people in the Sahtu.

I guess I’m trying to say something that’s in my heart that’s so sad it’s hard to be written down. We have lost two people in the Sahtu who are very good people, two men, one from Colville Lake and one from Norman Wells. These two men were very loved by their people. They did a lot of good things in their communities.

One fellow is from Colville Lake and he grew up on the land, he knew the land, he came from the land and now he has returned back to the land. He provided for his family from the land. With skill, he put food on the table for his children. He taught his children. This young fellow will greatly be missed in Colville Lake. I ask Members to help with the prayers sent to Colville Lake. I saw him last Friday in Norman Wells. His name is Michael Kochon.

Also, I want to say to the family and friends in Norman Wells, we lost a very good man also, Mr. Craig Scott. He also provided for his family from the oil and gas industry. He was well loved and we send prayers to his family and to the people of Norman Wells.

We’re in mourning right now because of our great loss. We may be few in the Sahtu, but when we’re

together as a family we’re very powerful. I want to say, also, that the Legislative Assembly Members, I know from time to time you go through these hard and difficult times and send prayers to the people.

I asked my wife what’s different between these two men. One lived on the land and one worked in the oil and gas industry. They both did well to provide food for their families and they were good people. Mr. Scott always teased my wife and always asked my wife, why did you marry that old man. He had that kind of humour and he will be thoroughly missed.

People of Colville Lake and Norman Wells are in shock. Please send prayers out to them in their time of mourning. Thank you.

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Condolences On The Passing Of Sahtu Residents Michael Kochon And Craig Scott

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Gymnasium For Ecole Boreale

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last night there was a public meeting held in Hay River. It was sponsored by the local district education authority, our DEA, which is elected members of our community who are mandated with overseeing education issues.

A number of months back, my colleague Mr. Bouchard and I were brought into a briefing with the Department of Education to talk about how the Government of the Northwest Territories was going to solve the issue of there not being a gymnasium at the Ecole Boreale French school.

Ecole Boreale is a French first language school that was built in Hay River, and at the time that it was developed and planned for, there was no gymnasium associated with it. It does introduce another dynamic option for education in the community of Hay River, but the fact is that these students, as other students, require a gymnasium.

There are some different scenarios. We agreed to step back and let the Department of Education deal with the DEA and talk about options. So the MLAs stood back and let those communications go forward. They have gone forward and there has been offerings back and forth, but it would appear by the public input that was acquired at that meeting last night in Hay River that there is not support for the concept of swapping one of our other public schools for the French school. It still leaves a school and a body of children at a disadvantage, unfortunately.

This government places a lot of emphasis on healthy choices, healthy living and activity. Physical education is an integral part of the education system. So today, now that we have heard from the DEA and they have had these discussions, as MLAs, I and Mr. Bouchard , we would like to start to

begin a dialogue, including what we’re saying in the House today, on this very important issue.

It puts Ecole Boreale in an awkward position as well. Certainly, people are very attached to their school facility, that’s where their children go to school, and it puts them in an awkward position, but we certainly do understand the input of all of our residents and all of our constituents.

I think our government has spent a fair amount of money, fighting having to build a school at Ecole Boreale, in the courts. I think that money would be better spent into some planning to get a gymnasium built for that school.

Later today I will have questions for the Minister of Education of other options of how we can move forward to address this very important need in the community of Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Gymnasium For Ecole Boreale

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Member for Hay River North , Mr. Bouchard .

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Gymnasium Facilities For Hay River Schools

Members’ Statements

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like my colleague, last night I attended a meeting on the Hay River school swap. I’d like to thank the DEA for hosting this meeting; it has been a meeting long time coming. The community was glad to hear all the information.

I can probably sum up the message that should be sent to the Department of Education and maybe my colleagues across the way. From Facebook, a comment from one of my constituents: “It’s a bad idea, just a quick fix, but it puts more students out without a gym. They should just pony up the dough and build a French school gym.”

The whole concept of the meeting was to discuss the percentages; if they made the swap; do they swap; if the DEA takes over Ecole Boreale will they put their JK to three there; will they put six and seven there; some of the occupancy levels of when the French school takes over, if the French school takes over Harry Camsell, what the percentages would be, so it was very informative. But I think the message was clear that the community would like to see other options and other considerations being done.

Obviously, Hay River wasn’t just there to complain, they rallied together and said, as a community we can do this, we can find the solution here. They talked about doing fundraising; they talked about – you know, we put a bid together for Arctic Winter Games – if we received that money and we won the bid, maybe some of those funds could be used there to have a gymnasium for the Arctic Winter Games, also any other ideas, such as federal funding.

We would like Cabinet to reconsider their process of what they’re doing with the French school gym and reconsider what they’re doing to the community of Hay River. They’re dividing up the two organizations, two great organizations in Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Gymnasium Facilities For Hay River Schools

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard . Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Schools In Small Communities

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today I stand together with my band of small community brothers and we will be asking for attention and asking questions for our poor, outdated schools in the small communities.

Our constituents are mainly Aboriginal people. We’re calling on the government to ensure the quality of small school facilities are on par with the likes of the new East Three in Inuvik and the rebuilt Mildred Hall in Yellowknife.

The quality of small community schools is pitiful compared to the quality of schools in the regional centres. It is time for a change.

Our constituents are fed up with the double standard. Numerous times I’ve declared in this House that my constituents in Trout Lake need a stand-alone school. Officially known as Charles Tetcho School, it is currently housed in the multi-purpose community hall. The school portion essentially consists of a single classroom. The school is overcrowded and the facilities are inadequate. The Minister of Education toured the school and he witnessed the problems firsthand.

Trout Lake has grown in size in recent years and school enrollment has grown with it. Enrollment is expected to rein steady or even increase in the coming years. Recent upgrades were made to the community hall, but that was just a band aid solution. Upgrades don’t address the fundamental problem. The school isn’t big enough and it has no autonomy.

According to the department’s capital planning schedule, improvements are likely to be made to Trout Lake’s school by 2018, but we have no assurance of that. In any case, four years is too long of a wait.

The quality and feel of a school facility has enormous impacts on student morale and the calibre of their work. Indeed, the quality of school facilities should be a consideration of government’s well publicized goal to eliminate the achievement gap between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal students.

Every single NWT student deserves a quality education regardless of where they live. Planning studies should be undertaken to guarantee a level

playing field across the Territories. Indeed, with the Education Renewal Initiative on the horizon and junior kindergarten, now is the right time for a concerted territorial effort to enhance school facilities for Aboriginal children in our small communities. Thank you.

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Schools In Small Communities

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Blake .

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Moose Kerr School

Members’ Statements

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week I spoke about the timeline for replacing Moose Kerr School in Aklavik. Moose Kerr School was constructed in 1969, exactly the same time as Samuel Hearne Secondary School that was built in Inuvik and now replaced.

My constituents would like to know why Moose Kerr School is still standing. At 45 years old it’s overdue for replacement. I believe that Moose Kerr School is the oldest school in this territory at the moment.

The Minister of Education stated last week that Moose Kerr School is slated for replacement or renovation in 2019. That is five years from now. Safety is also an issue with traffic and parking at the present location. Also, the school is right next to the airstrip in the community, another hazard.

We also need to have available trade facilities in our schools to give our students an idea of what they would like to be once they are finished school. Thank you.

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Moose Kerr School

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake . The Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As many Members know, I’m pretty familiar with many of the rules around the House and I can easily say that many of the rules are black and white. But there is area that I often refer to as grey areas and, of course, they’re not tied to a specific rule or a breach, but sometimes more of an error of opinion or insight. Sometimes we can refer to them as someone has gingerly strolled away from the spirit and the intent of consensus government.

I’m having trouble personally putting a specific finger around what rule may have been breached, but I can tell you once I’ve stepped back, like an onion, when you peel it away it starts to make your eyes water and you start to wonder what has truly been revealed.

Pray tell, what am I talking about? Well, guess what. The Minister of Health and Social Services just over a week ago did, in my view, a pre-emptive strike on what was released yesterday tabled by

yourself, the Auditor General’s report. On February 25th he read a Minister’s statement in this House as

innocent as the day and seemed to try to paint the picture of child and family services that things are all okay.

I think this was a result of an effort to downplay the results that were pending. Was there a freight train coming and they thought let’s throw something to put a twist in the tracks?

I draw this House’s attention to the Minister’s statement on page 3 where they refer to procedural manuals, updating, major revisions, and by the way, they’ll be done next year. There are very similar responses of the spirit and intent of what was on

chapter 39 of the AG’s report. Did the Minister get ahead of the report? I’m starting to notice a trend. The trend continues on page 4 of his statement. The Minister goes on and talks about detailed training, and the Auditor General report as well talks about training, not just once but on

chapter 19, 41,

chapter 42 and even 80. Was the Minister trying to get ahead of the report or, as he said on CBC last night, well, there are just a few things they need to tweak, I think he said.

This is a serious moral breach. It’s not a technical breach. There are no rules in our green books to tell us what rule has been broken, but I can tell you, getting ahead of the Auditor General’s report and trying to play it down, I think is a moral breach of the spirit and the intent of consensus government that we live and run every day in this building.

I will continue on this trek of saying, why did he do this? We need to have a serious discussion about the way we do business here.

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The Member for Range Lake , Mr. Dolynny .

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s hard not to take a moment to discuss the recent scathing Auditor General’s Report on the Child and Family Services in the Northwest Territories. Unfortunately, what is an embarrassment to the Minister’s office and senior management of Health and Social Services is equally troublesome to every legislator in this room. How did we allow this to proceed under our watch in a consensus government?

Clearly, this gold standard in auditing pointed out areas of concern that were discussed, debated and allegedly resolved by Members of the 16th Assembly, so why did we not see a paradigm shift in thinking for our most vulnerable in society? What were the barriers to making the required changes for monitoring, proper reporting and, ultimately, protection of our children?

This is merely not as simple as the Minister has commented publicly as tinkering around the edges. There is much more behind this story than the statistics. The concern is accountability. According to the report, there appears to be zero guidance and no tools to support delivery of these services. Furthermore, the report mentions time and time again that under the act, the director of child and family services is the one accountable for all decisions made by child protection workers.

Furthermore, this same director is required to report annually to the Minister of Health on the performance of the child and family services system. Shamefully, according to the report, no reporting had taken place for the past 10 years. Ten years! Without any dashboard indicators, I question what the senior management and Ministers of the day used to assure themselves the system was adequately meeting the needs of children and families. They must be using a Ouija board or fortune cookies.

We know the Auditor General’s report is now before the Standing Committee of Government Operations for a formal review, but until the committee comes back with their recommendations, I hope the Minister and the department think long and hard on what they’re going to do today for those who breach accountability and put our children at risk, because lip service ain’t gonna cut it anymore. Not on this one.

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny . The Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we’ve heard, the Report of the Office of the Auditor General on Child and Family Services was tabled in the House yesterday. I read the report last night and again today. There is so much in it it’s hard to know where to start. The assistant auditor general, Mr. Campbell, called it troubling, and considering the contents of the report, I see that as an understatement.

After reading the report, there was a mixture of emotions for me: gratitude to the office of the Auditor General for their work. As always, they were thorough, fair, in-depth, to the point, and extremely helpful to us as legislators. But I also felt disappointment and despair. Despair because I was part of the standing committee of the 16th Assembly

which invested many, many hours in 2010 doing an in-depth review of the Child and Family Services Act. The report from that committee included over 70 recommendations, and the committee members had high hopes for change, high hopes for improvement in a system which we had heard was not working.

Now, three years later, the Auditor General’s report indicates little change occurred; few recommendations were heeded. In fact, this review points out that similar recommendations from a report tabled way back in 2000 have yet to be acted on. Right now our child and family services system is operational but dysfunctional. Using the Health and Social Services department’s own guidelines, and that’s the Child and Family Services Act, as a measure, the system can be said to be in crisis.

Here are just some of the observations from the office of the Auditor General’s report:

• There is no accountability framework; therefore,

a huge lack of accountability at the health and social service authorities and at the department.

• Concerns brought to the attention of workers

and some necessary investigations were not acted on.

• Plans of care for children have not been

followed up on.

• Foster homes have not been properly vetted or

monitored.

• There are still no services for youth 16 to 18

years old.

• There is an identified need for the department

and the authorities to provide greater guidance for child and family service workers, to assist them with prevention activities so they can, in turn, assist families in trouble.

• There is a lack of both financial and human

resources to adequately deliver child and family services in the NWT.

The Minister and the department have responded swiftly to the report, as we have heard.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

The Minister’s response indicates either genuine concern or an attempt to douse the flames. I sincerely hope it is the former. I look forward to working with the Minister to enact some real and positive change for the children and families of the NWT who use the child and family services system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Moses .

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been about 30 months since we’ve been in this government here, and recommendations from the 16th Legislative Assembly specifically on the report

that was tabled in the House yesterday with the

child and family services, which I believe the current and the previous Ministers of Health and Social Services where very strong advocates on, and yet we see this report in front of us today.

As stated from some of my colleagues, there are many areas that we can focus on with this report, but I would like to talk a little about the accountability. In the report it states that the Department of Health and Social Services is responsible for the overall management of the child and family service system. It also states that the Minister has authorized southern health and social services authorities to assist the director in the management, control and operation of child and family services.

That director also has many of the rights and responsibilities of a parent when children are receiving services. In turn, these responsibilities are passed on to the child protection workers, and the child protection workers then exercise many duties and powers of the director but are employees of the regional authorities, so this accountability is all mixed up in there somewhere. However, the director does remain accountable for all decisions made by the child protection workers.

I am going to talk a little bit about these child protection workers. There are 93 of them in the Northwest Territories. They work with children and families on a daily basis. Some of the things they have to deal with are they are exposed to traumatic and stressful situations, other duties include they manage children’s cases, prepare legal documents, appear in court while dealing with child protection situations that require immediate attention. There are a lot of problems there, a lot of work.

Last year, ‘12-13, 1,042 children received services with only 93 child protection workers. That is a concern. When you look at measuring success results, it states that the percentage of children receiving services in their own community was 87.5 percent. That means that there are more children receiving services in their own community, putting more stress on our child protection workers. So, when we are going forward, we are not only looking at the children but we have to look at the employees that do services on behalf of the government.

The Minister did state that he is going to be working with the Standing Committee on Social Programs and I look forward to those discussions and dialogues and how we can address this problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses . Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Elimination Of Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to continue looking at our income security system and how it has created a series of poverty traps. You may remember I was telling a story about Charles and his three children. Charles is not a real person, but his story will be familiar to many people.

Let’s imagine that Charles lives in Fort Good Hope, because the Nutrition North Program keeps track of food costs there, allowing us to see how much it costs Charles to feed his family.

Nutrition North, what used to be called Food Mail, reported on their website last March that in Fort Good Hope it costs $440 to feed a family of four for one week, or about $1,750 a month. But when it comes to food, clothing, school supplies and everything else, income support only provides Charles and his family a grand total of $1,300, a figure from the department’s response to a written question tabled earlier this session.

Using the government’s own numbers, Charles is at least $500 short every month just to be able to buy food. Fortunately, Charles’ housing, power and heating bills are covered separately, but Charles is stressed to say the least. How is he going to put these growing children through school when he is struggling to feed them? They’re going to need clothes, school supplies, they should be involved with sports, and these days they will need Internet just to do their homework.

Charles has done his taxes and is surprised to see that he qualifies for a GST rebate and a child tax credit. These payments come in every three months, and when the first one shows up, he goes out to buy some clothes for the children. But guess what. On his next visit to income support, they tell him that the extra income from the tax rebates means he made too much money and his income support payment will be reduced.

So now Charles has to really struggle to get to the end of the month. Fortunately, a company from down south comes into town and needs someone to do a few days of work in the bush. Charles drops his children off at a friend’s place, saying he’ll pay them for looking after his kids. After three days, the work is done and the company puts 600 bucks in his bank account. Charles figures he’s got a good chance to get work with them again.

But we all know what happens next. Income support finds the money on his bank statement and reduces his income support again. Charles now owes money for child care and still does not have enough to feed his family.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Mahsi.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Elimination Of Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Charles now owes money for child care and still does not have enough to feed his family. I wish I could say this story has a happy ending, but Charles is having a hard time seeing a way out.

This is what I mean when I talk about poverty traps. Our Income Security programs are inadequate and the built-in clawbacks create a disincentive to work. I must point out again, that rather than providing the stable home children need to succeed, living in a poverty trap means toxic stress, leading to delays in early childhood development that will, sadly, be costly for all and for lifetimes.

This morning I heard CBC’s Lorne McInnes asking the Auditor General’s office what the story was behind his devastating report. Poverty traps are part of the story behind the Auditor General’s long list of failures in the way this government, of which I am currently a part, are fulfilling our fiduciary duty to look after the children.

I will have questions. Mahsi.

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Elimination Of Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . Member for Deh Cho , Mr. Nadli .

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Standing Committee On Government Operations Update

Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Standing committees of the Legislative Assembly are where the Regular Members of the Legislative Assembly roll up their sleeves and get down to work on behalf of the people of the NWT.

As the chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations, I’m pleased to advise the public and the House of the work that is underway in this committee. The committee just completed an extensive public review of the GNWT’s public accounts for 2012-2013 and tabled its report on that review in the House just a few weeks ago.

We have also just completed our public review of the Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Human Rights Commission for 2012-2013 and we look forward to tabling a report on the review before the end of this session.

In the coming weeks, the Standing Committee on Government Operations will be undertaking two more reviews that members of the public will be invited to participate in. The first, we will be holding a public meeting to prepare a review of the 2012-2013 Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Information and Privacy Commissioner and we look forward to tabling the report in the spring session.

Similarly, plans are underway to publicly review the Report of the Auditor General on the Department of Health and Social Services Child and Family Services Program in April 2014.

The Standing Committee on Government Operations is also prepared to undertake the five-year review of the Northwest Territories Official Languages Act. The standing committee will be meeting with members of the public and interested parties on this important review, and we look forward to updating the public and the Members of this House as this work progresses.

Standing committees work hard to hold government accountable for its spending and its performance, with the intent of improving services provided to NWT residents. I invite anyone who is interested in the work of the standing committees to keep their eyes open for notices of standing committee meetings that are published in the newspaper, or to take a look at the reports of the standing committees which are published on the Legislative Assembly’s website. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Standing Committee On Government Operations Update

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I’d like to welcome all the visitors here in the public gallery here today. Thanks for taking an interest in our proceedings.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Hay River North , Mr. Bouchard .

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll follow up with questions from my Member’s statement about the Hay River DEA and the school swap. My questions are for the Minister of Education . In the meeting some people had some questions about the financial rationale behind the school swap.

Can the Minister indicate to me what they expect this school swap to cost the Department of Education?

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard . The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We first initiated the discussion with the Hay River DEA and, of course, the Commission scolaire francophone on the whole idea that we have yet to go through the appeals process with the court. It was just exploratory discussions that we’ve had, and obviously, my officials met with the chair of the DEA and the parents that represented the Hay River DEA. So those are the discussions we’ve been having.

From the board’s perspective, we’ll work with the community and my department. To date, we’re compiling the information on what the expenditure would be on the school swap because it would

depend on the facility itself, the spaces. So that is information that we are currently compiling from the DEA with my department. Mahsi.

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

I would like the Minister to also include some of that analysis of the costs, I guess the cost of the whole process. What have they put into legal fees, what are they going to have to put into the school swap? We know the cost, $28 million for both schools in both communities, $13 million for Hay River.

Would the Minister commit to giving us a full analysis of what the government has spent on this whole fiasco, I guess?

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi. The Member is correct about the $28 million. That’s, overall, the target that we are working with between Hay River and Yellowknife. Again, we are compiling the financial background on how much we’ve expended on this particular school swap and then also the court appeals and so forth. So, I can assure the Member that they will receive that information. Mahsi.

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

Obviously, our Hay River DEA and the French school were concerned about the repercussions now.

Now that the DEA has said that they’re not interested in signing the MOU, what will the Department of Education do going forward, what are the expectations of Cabinet and what are the expectations of the GNWT to go forward? Thank you.

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi. We just heard last night from the Member, of course, both Members, that the Hay River DEA is not in a position to move forward on a school swap. From their meeting with the parents, my understanding is that there was a great turnout from the general public and I must commend them for having the engagement of the public. We have not heard back from the Commission scolaire francophone, who are meeting in Hay River with the parents tonight. So we will be hearing from them and until we hear back from them, there are no decisions on the next steps as of yet. Mahsi.

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard .

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know they’ve put some deadlines on the DEA, and obviously, I look forward to hearing what happens in Hay River tonight. I apologize, I can’t make it, but I guess the question is that, going forward, we know that there are some dates coming up in March that are very important and key.

When will the Minister get back to us on these numbers and on the decision going forward on this issue? Thank you.

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi. The Member is quite correct; there is a deadline we have to meet. I believe it’s March 24. Those are the court dates that we have to follow through with. Part of the plan will be to meet with both Hay River MLAs. I was hoping sometime next week to give them the status of what’s happening and what will be the next step, so I will be briefing both Members.

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Question 219-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are also for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . I have a lot of questions, but let me start in my little

preamble, my short

preamble to say that we talk, as a government, about regional capacity and building capacity. Part of that capacity building in Hay River is our schools, and right now I realize that the occupancy levels in our schools are not as high as they could be, and I think that’s what left the door open for this idea of this swap, but I do want to say that with this government’s commitment to decentralization and some of the economic initiatives that are on the horizon in Hay River, we are going to need all four of our schools.

I would like to ask the Minister if he has, well, it sounds like the decision to pursue the school swap idea pre-empted a lot of numbers being put together. I don’t want to talk about Yellowknife. Yellowknife has seven MLAs; they can look after Yellowknife. I want to talk about Hay River. Okay?

Are there preliminary estimates on what it would cost to build? As per the court order, what would need to be built at Ecole Boreale? Do they have preliminary cost estimates?

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Minister of Education , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I believe Member Bouchard also mentioned approximately $13 million. If there are no alternatives to building an addition to Ecole Boreale in Hay River, the cost to the NWT will be approximately $13 million. That’s the number that we’ve been working with with the DEA and commission with my department. Those are just some of the numbers that we have been working with.

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I, like my colleague, would also like to know what money we’ve already spent on looking at the school swap and what kind of money we have spent trying to fight building a gymnasium for Ecole Boreale. I mean, that would be an interesting number and I hope that the Minister could possibly be forthcoming with that. I think we should stop spending that money and we

should start spending money on planning to build a new facility.

The deadline, again, that my colleague spoke of, Minister Lafferty refers to March 24th . I would like to

ask the Minister, is there a date before that, even within the next few days, where there is a decision imminently going to be made by this government and by this Cabinet?

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Once we hear back from Commission scolaire francophone on the outcome of their meeting tonight, then we will be updating both MLAs. Eventually – the Member is quite correct – we need to make a decision by the Cabinet prior to March 24th what will be the next

step. I will be briefing both Members sometime next week at the earliest possibility.

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I do realize that they need to hear from the French school board, but the MOU proposed to the DEA, we’ve been officially notified by the chair that this has been rejected.

I’d like to ask the Minister, just for the benefit of people in Hay River to know, by what date would this Cabinet be making a decision on what avenue they are going to take to proceed? I know that the court deadline is March 24th . By what date does this

Cabinet need to make a decision to expend the $13 million to build the gymnasium for Hay River?

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Again, keeping in mind that obviously March 24th is the date that we

need to make this a priority to government to make a decision, and I need to present that to my Cabinet colleagues, possibly we have Thursday’s Cabinet meeting. Those are the discussions that we need to have with the Cabinet on what will be the next steps. But I want to inform the Regular Members prior to that, sit down with them and this is what we’ve heard, what should we do as the next steps. Those are the discussions we need to have prior to me going to my Cabinet colleagues. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Lafferty . Final, short supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, very succinctly, what option does this government have, other than to comply with the court order, to spend the money and build the gymnasium for Ecole Boreale in Hay River? Thank you.

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, there are only two options: proceed or not to proceed. Those are the two options that we have been working with and we were trying to find an alternative solution to this so that at least it would save the GNWT money over time. We are very limited on timing now, so again, we will be updating those two Hay River Members next week and give them more detailed information at that time. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 220-17(5): Hay River School Exchange

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Blake .

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some questions for the Minister of Public Works and Services . It has to do with my Member’s statement here today.

I would like to ask the Minister, has there been any action to address the traffic and parking concerns raised at the Moose Kerr School? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake . Minister of Public Works , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have that information here with me. I understand that the Member was concerned about the road being very close to the school. I will have the Department of Public Works contact the administrator of the school and see if there is anything that can be done immediately to address that issue. Thank you.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, also in my statement I mentioned that in 2019 there will be either a replacement or a renovation of the school, so I would like to ask the Minister…

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Excuse me, Mr. Blake . I would like to remind Members, while they are in this House, shut the ringers off on your phones. Put them on vibrate or silent. Mr. Blake , I’m sorry, continue.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will start again. In my statement I mentioned that in 2019 the school will either be renovated or replaced. I would like to ask the Minister, will the price to renovate Moose Kerr School in 2019 be close to the cost of a new facility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, when we are doing a midlife retrofit, such as what the plan is here, I understand that there was already a bit of a retrofit in Moose Kerr School. I believe that was in 2000. If we are referring to this after the 40 years, in 2019, there is a certain point under which we make a decision to replace the facility, if it exceeds a certain percent, if the renovation would exceed a certain percentage of cost of a totally brand new unit.

When a retrofit can be brought in and the life of the facility can be extended to a reasonable time period, then that retrofit is done and everything can be replaced and the extension can be done lower than a certain percent of the cost of a new school. Thank you.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, in 2019 the school will be 50 years old. I would like to ask the department, will the department replace Moose Kerr School? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, determining whether or not this facility will be replaced, again, will be based on the judgment on whether or not the school can be brought up to the standard of the day, with a certain percentage towards what it would cost to replace the whole entire school. But at 50 years old, I imagine that it would be a very close examination with the Department of Education on whether or not it would be more feasible to replace the school. Thank you.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Blake .

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we could learn something from the Housing department that was going to renovate the Joe Greenland Centre and ended up replacing it.

Will the Minister make sure that the Moose Kerr School is on the red flag list? Thank you.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

From what I understand, the school is in the capital plan. So it’s not a situation where it would be put on a red flag list to enter into a capital plan. The school is actually in the capital plan and scheduled for a major renovation or replacement in 2019. Thank you.

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Question 221-17(5): Moose Kerr School

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Health Minister will tell you he does not have early access to the Auditor General’s report. Of course, he’ll probably tell you it’s all arm’s length, and of course, he doesn’t know anything about it until it’s tabled by yourself, Mr. Speaker. This is a paradox that now sits before this House.

Can the Minister of Health explain why the wording in the Minister’s statement given on February 25th of this year mimics much of the wording in the report tabled by yourself, Mr. Speaker, yesterday, and the report I’m referring to is the Auditor General’s report. Is this a case, and only the Minister can answer this, of the Department of Health and Social Services, Minister Abernethy as Minister, getting ahead of the report before the public had its shot fairly to review this? Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Minister of Health , Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I got my first briefing on the Auditor General’s report the day before the Auditor General tabled it and I got that report and that briefing from the Auditor General himself. I did not see the report until yesterday when it was tabled. In fact, I read it while sitting here in Committee of the Whole and that was the first time that I saw the document.

But I’m not a moron; I was involved in the review of the Child and Family Services Act in the 16th Assembly and I participated with Mr. Bromley and Ms. Bisaro and Mr. Krutko and Mr. Beaulieu while we travelled throughout the Northwest Territories and listened clearly to the people of the Northwest Territories about the challenges that they were facing with respect to child and family services. I became the Minister four months ago.

Immediately after I became the Minister of Health and Social Servicers, I sat down and I read the review of the Child and Family Services Act from the 16th Assembly and it doesn’t take rocket science to look at the report, dig into the department and realize that there are challenges.

I reviewed the act, I started having discussions with the department and, clearly, without question – and it doesn’t take an idiot to figure this out – we have accountability issues, we have reporting issues, we have performance issues and I am the Minister of Health and Social Services and I’m committed to making these improvements. I was one of the ones who championed for the review in the 16th Assembly and

I truly care about the child and families of the Northwest Territories.

I wanted to make a statement in the House to let the Members know that things are happening. It came up in committee, it came up in front of the House when we did the budget review. So I appreciate the Member’s opinion, but I accept it for what it is, an opinion. Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

I won’t call a point of order on the Minister’s opinion of himself, but I will leave it at that.

The arm’s length of this report must be pretty short because they’re using such similar language as it is in the report tabled by you, delivered by the Auditor General, Mr. Speaker. The Minister’s statement on February 25th stands on the record of saying why is

this information very, very similar in your statement as the department’s response. It says the department was trying to get ahead of this by saying, here are the answers and when it shows up a week later just pretend, oh, we’re tweaking everything. Can the Minister, without a long story about how great the world is in the 16th Assembly

and his good friends hanging out with him, explain why the wording is so, so similar? It tells me that they’re trying to get ahead of this. Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you. It kind of sounds like the Member didn’t review the Child and Family Services Act from the 16th Assembly

because the two are very similar. Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

The answers provided by the departments are very, I don’t know how to describe it, are exceptionally similar to the answers provided in the Auditor General’s report. So I would say this: Why are they identical? Only the Minister can answer this and if he wants to continue to dodge

and try to play games about, oh well, it’s this or it’s this, and now the Member hasn’t read the report, he can play games, but the public can see this. The fact is there’s zero accountability on this and they’re getting ahead of the Auditor General, which breaks the spirit and the intent of consensus government and that has to stop.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you. I’d hardly say that we got ahead. I was talking about some of the positive things that we were doing and the Auditor General clearly indicated that we’re not. So I would say that the things I was speaking to are the good things that we’re trying to do in response to the 16th Assembly. Frankly, much of the wording in

both of those documents is consistent and I would encourage the Member to maybe review or read the review of the Child and Family Services Act from the 16th Assembly. Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

I’ve read that report. I don’t need to be schooled by the Minister. The facts lay simply before themselves. The Minister’s statement on February 25th , the language is practically identical

to chapters 39, 41, 19, 42 and 80, as oh, things are wonderful, but yet if you read the Auditor General’s report pointing to those sections, it’s similar. It only draws one conclusion of the everyday person: the department doesn’t want to be responsible for these things so they’re downplaying them upfront and then they’re going to use the angle, oh, but don’t worry we’re on the file, so let’s not get too excited.

Can the Minister explain simply why the wording is identical and we’ll deal with that so we can all move forward? Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you. It’s awfully cynical and it seems to be attributing motive, which is not really the case. I was involved in the file. I am the Minister of Health and Social Services and I have taken an active interest in this file.

I have had many discussions with the department, and the department, yes, is involved in preparing responses to the audit, which I don’t get to see until the audit is actually out there, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that we need to do a lot more on this file, and I’m taking action and I have been taking action and I didn’t wait for the audit to come out to start taking action on this file because, quite frankly, we all knew it needed to be done.

I’ve had those discussions with committee and I’ll continue to have those discussions with committee. Once again, I appreciate the Member’s opinion, but once again, it is just simply an opinion. Thank you.

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Question 222-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Education . Just a follow-up on my Member’s statement.

I have been asking for a new school in Trout Lake for the past 10 years and the Minister said he’s in Cabinet Thursday. Will he raise that as well? When will the education priority of small communities be heard? We need new schools and new gymnasiums in the small communities. When will the government be doing that?

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Minister of Education , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We are clearly hearing the Members, especially from the small communities. That’s part of the reason why we’re developing this whole Education Renewal Innovation because part of the pillars will be focused on small communities and also the formula funding for the small communities, so it will capture that as we move forward as long-term objectives.

Today we are following the capital planning process, and every single time there are capital projects going forward we’ve been stressing for the small communities. Those are badly needed and we’ve been developing some planning studies, business case scenarios and with this budget going forward, 2014-15, as part of the capital planning process we will be investing approximately $95,000 towards the Charles Tetcho School in Trout Lake in the planning study.

Those are just some of the discussions we’ve been having, now we’re putting them into action and from there the outcome will be to move forward on major capital projects. Mahsi.

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much. During the Minister’s visit to Trout Lake we showed him how small the school was, we showed him it’s full to capacity and now we have junior kindergarten, which is a new additional factor that has to be addressed. Are there enough resources to do an adequate planning study in the community of Trout Lake and its needs? Thank you.

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi. With respect to the major capital retrofits, we need to have a planning study done, so this is part of the process. Based on the needs of the community, the size of the school, how it’s structured as we move forward, what kind of school would the community be entitled to, the square footage and the classroom sizes, so those are the discussions that we need to have with the regional school board. We are moving forward on this. Planning studies will be on the way.

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

I know that when it comes to replacing health facilities, we’ve got standard plans for type B, C facilities, et cetera. Is that something similar the Minister of Education and his department is working on, template schools for our small communities, because I think what will really help is moving forward. Yes, we’re doing planning studies, but we also need, I think, Class D estimates. We need to know the ballpark figure we’re working with so we can get it accelerated in our capital planning processes because these schools need replacing right away.

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

As of today, part of the capital planning process, we have to work very closely with the Department of Public Works and Services, because there are set criteria that we have to follow with any major infrastructure, not only schools but other major infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. They have to follow the criteria.

Again, we have been told over and over to think outside the box, focus on small communities. That is exactly what we’re pursuing. Part of the action plan with the education renewal and innovation is that we’re going to be developing plans of action focusing on the needs of the small communities. Yes, we are moving towards that.

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I’m pleased to hear the Minister say those words. The time for building the large schools are over. We’ve spent hundreds of millions of dollars in all our regional centres and I believe it’s time to start concentrating on our small communities, get those done. The costs are not in the hundreds of millions. It will probably be – I can’t even estimate – probably about $2 million or $3 million for a school in a small community.

I’d like to ask the Minister, can he start the initial planning, get some Class D estimates, and share it with myself and my colleagues that need new schools in their communities?

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

We will compile that information on the process of the capital planning. Every year we go through this and there are set criteria. The planning process is on the way and we will be sharing that information with the Member. There is going to be engagement through the education renewal and innovation with the community and with the DEAs, and I’ll definitely be seeking input from the Member as well.

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Question 223-17(5): Strategy To Enhance School Facilities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are in follow up to my statement earlier today on poverty traps and directed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Yesterday and today I think I made it clear that our social safety net has some pretty serious poverty traps in it, but I would like to give the Minister a chance to demonstrate differently. We track people on income support more than anyone else in the NWT. We know month by month what is in their bank account.

Will the Minister tell us how many people our system has helped rise out of poverty in the last year or any year?

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I think I see another written question coming. The Member is asking for detailed information. I don’t have the actual numbers of how many people we track on the detailed information that’s required, verification and so forth, to confirm that there’s going to be a payment. But we must keep in mind that income support is a last resort as a subsidy program to the community members. We do what we can to help the most vulnerable in the communities.

As I stated yesterday, as well, that part of the labour market, we have to improve and encourage those individuals to fill those potential job opportunities. We are doing what we can to provide the productive choices training on-the-job program. The funding is available, so we have to encourage those individuals. My department continues to do that and will continue to relay that message on to the communities.

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I can assure the Minister that I do track that information and we have the poorest 20 percent of people in this jurisdiction in the country and it’s not improving. I appreciate that we do what we can, the Minister does what he can, but what I’m suggesting here is ways that we can do more with less.

As I mentioned, Nutrition North does food basket surveys on what it costs to feed a family of four in our communities. Their data shows that the amount provided by income support is only half of what is needed. Maintaining our focus on the most critical element underserved here – that’s children – how does the Minister expect children to succeed in school when their parents cannot afford to feed them?

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Income support is not the only avenue that we provide funding to the most vulnerable that the Member is referring to. We work closely with the Department of Health and

Social Services, the Wellness Program. There are all these different subsidy programs that are out there. Income support is just one area that we subsidize the most vulnerable. Yes, we need to prepare our community members and Northwest Territories residents, especially the young ones, for them to enter the education field and eventually graduate and to come back and be a part of the northern workforce. Those are the overall goals and objectives of this government, the wellness of our people, the most educated. This is what we do. Part of the Labour Market Development Agreement, we provide those subsidies.

Income support is another venue, SFA and the child services as well. Those are just some of the areas that we continue to provide services.

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

To the Minister, we’ve heard all about this amazing and costly maze of support, ineffective supports, that we have out there. We’re trying to move on here.

There are additional supports available to people in poverty, such as the GST rebate and the child tax credit. Despite their intent to help, our system takes that money away from families. I very much doubt that the money we save from chasing after these meagre funds even covers the cost of the government workers chasing after them.

How can the Minister justify clawing back payments that are meant to alleviate poverty when people are already struggling just to buy food?

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Again, it is a last resort venue that we have as the income support division. It’s not a money-making machine. We’re there to assist those most vulnerable individuals in the communities. Just as an example, I can use the Sahtu region as an example where there’s a very hot economy that’s happening there. There is all this different training that’s been developed and job creation. Based on that, people are getting off income support. That’s the whole objective of this government. We need to push that forward.

Canada’s job grant that’s coming down from the federal government, we’re fully on board with the changes that are coming down. That is a decision that we’ve made and we’re going forward as the territorial government working with the federal government. Along with the Department of Health and Social Services and my department and ITI, we’re going to move forward on this.

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not totally sure the Minister has been hearing my description of poverty traps. This guy is stuck at home with children and when he tries to work a little bit, it gets clawed back and he’s even worse off. When the Minister or myself make an extra $1,000, we pay income tax. We are not living in poverty, so

we contribute about $400 of that back to society, and I think we would agree, all of us, that that’s money well spent. But when someone on income support makes an extra $1,000, they only get to keep $150.

How can the Minister or any government official possibly justify an 85 percent effective tax rate on income for people who are trying to get out of poverty when the most well paid people in the NWT only pay 40 percent?

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

I, too, would like to encourage those individuals to enter the workforce, and all of us here, 19 of us, fully support that. We want individuals to be successful in the Northwest Territories, throughout Canada, internationally, so we have to provide them the tools. Part of the tools that we’re providing them is productive choices within our income support division, and part of the productive choices is putting them on on-the-job training and preparing them for resume writing. All these different tools that we are providing them are there for individuals such as what Mr.

Bromley is referring to as part of the clientele. There is also a $1,200 exemption that individuals can qualify for within the income support division.

We do have a subsidy program for those most vulnerable. We will continue to support that. It is key that we have to support those individuals that are in the system to make them a success in their lives. Mahsi.

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Question 224-17(5): Poverty Traps In The Income Security System

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . The Minister undertook an educational renewal and innovation engagement process with our people in the Northwest Territories. The comprehensive review of the education, we looked at operating in the Northwest Territories. We know things need to be changed and improved. We’ve got to think differently. There is a multi-year plan how to make these changes in the North.

I want to ask the Minister in regards to the Education Renewal and Innovation Action Plan that was scheduled to be coming out at the end of February 2014. Is the plan ready for us to review on this side of the House? Today is March 5th .

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister of Education , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, we want to hear feedback from the general public of the Northwest Territories, especially the grassroots people, the educators, the

parents, the grandparents, so we have developed a committee to establish an engagement process. Part of that will be listening to those individuals who are in the system, as well, and the community members.

Once we share that, the feedback, we’re hoping by May-June session we are going to have some information, but prior to that, I believe I did make a commitment in this House, I want to share that with the standing committee. It will be in draft format, obviously, but once it’s in my hands, I will make a point of sharing that with standing committee as a presentation. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, Members on this side of the House are telling the Minister right now that they represent the grassroots people, the people in their communities. They are saying they need new gyms and they are saying fix old schools, build new schools, get gymnasiums. We heard it. Social passing, we don’t have good directors. We’ve heard all that. The Minister has gone out. The Minister stated in this report that there is going to be an assessment, there’s going to be an ER Action Plan. The development of this plan was supposed to be out in February 2014. I am waiting for this action plan. We know what it is.

I think the time has stopped for saying these things and we need some action now. So I am asking this Minister, when is the action plan going to be out? We know what’s happening with our education system.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, when we initiated our discussions back in let’s say in late fall, that’s the date that we had thrown around, possibly February or March, and now we have to engage the school boards, and in order to get feedback, it takes time to engage the school boards, the parents and, again, the grandparents and educators, so we will be waiting for feedback from them and then delivering the package as an action plan to the standing committee. I’m hoping that by May/June we have that final detailed information. In due time, I will be sharing that with the standing committee when the time is available. Mahsi.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Minister, through the ASA educational workshop in the Sahtu, certainly heard from our people. I think this Minister needs to get on the books, put the action plan before us. It’s stated here August 2013 to February 2014, development of an ER Action Plan implementation schedule. Now the Minister is moving it down.

We need to get on this right away, so I will ask the Minister, why the delay, why we are taking so long? We have told you numerous times through the educational renewal, our education system is not working in the Northwest Territories. There are many factors that the Minister listened to in the

Sahtu and other communities. We need to think differently, we need to start within the time limit of this government.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative, the engagement we had was very successful. This is embarking on that, we are strengthening that, enhancing that through education renewal renovation. It’s not me that’s delaying the whole tactic, it’s the engagement.

I am a firm believer in engaging people, engaging the public, the communities, to share their perspectives, the grassroots people, and to share their perspective and putting it in the action plan. Upon that time, I will be delivering that to the standing committee once it is delivered in my office. Possibly, we have given a target of May or June and then delivering that to standing committee. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Minister is looking and blaming the people. The people have spoken to him. I went to the workshop in the Sahtu; we had some dynamite discussions. We were hoping that in 2010 with this discussion, this will push… This issue has been long standing in the Sahtu and also for the people of the Northwest Territories. We are saying our education system in the North is broken. Fix it. Our students need to be well educated, our schools need to be well functioned. We know the system and why it’s not producing what we want it to produce. Let’s get on with it. Let’s not stall anymore by continuing to wait. You know, we are sitting and not moving.

I want to know that this Minister is a Minister of action and get something done.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, Action Jackson is here to…

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, I am hearing the Member and we are moving forward with the action plan and that is coming in early spring. It will be delivered through the standing committee and also in this House. It will be a very substantial piece of work that we are moving forward.

The Member has referred to that it has been long awaited. Yes, patience is a virtue, as well, but we are going to be delivering an action plan by this summer. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 225-17(5): Education Renewal And Innovation Action Plan

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 226-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services and I want to follow up on my statement and ask some questions to the Minister about the office of the Auditor General’s report recently released.

The Minister has mentioned that he and I were both on the Standing Committee on Social Programs in the 16th Assembly and we did that in-depth review. I

believe the Minister is probably even more passionate about that review of the 16th Assembly

than I am. There were 70 recommendations in that report. Those recommendations, if implemented, would have had a very large impact on our system.

So, a couple of questions here. What has happened to those recommendations? How did we get to where we are today? How did we get here? Thank you.

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Question 226-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . Minister of Health , Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 226-17(5): Report Of The Auditor General On Child And Family Services

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, after the Auditor General report came out, I did send a letter to the Standing Committee on Social Programs and I was looking for an opportunity to sit with them and talk about the 16th Assembly report and also some direction that I

have given to the department over the last couple of weeks and last couple of months with respect to the recommendations in that report.

I have talked a little bit about some of the foundational work that has been done, which is great, and I don’t believe it’s enough. I feel like we‘ve been tinkering around the edges, that we haven’t actually jumped into the meat of the issue.

When we did the review, we had an opportunity to meet and discuss this with so many wonderful people. I met some really passionate people on the file. At one point we had an opportunity to meet with an executive director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada. She actually travelled with us on that review. She talked a lot about differential, providing these types of services on a differential basis. This is something that we were all passionate about at the time and this is something that I would like us, as an Assembly, to pursue. It was one of the recommendations.

We have been moving forward on the recommendations. I’m looking forward to sitting in front of committee at their earliest convenience, go through the report, talk about some of the things we are doing and how we can move forward to improve all services to our children and families in the Northwest Territories.

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