Debates of March 15th, 1993

This is page numbers 901 - 934 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was health .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Victims Assistance Committee

Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Pages From Nunakput Riding

A Successful Wood Buffalo Frolics In Fort Smith

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Panarctic Dumping Waste Metal Into Arctic Ocean

Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers

Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Eligibility Criteria For Legal Aid On Appeals

Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Status Of Director Of Corrections

Determination Of Retailer For Inmates Wood Cutting Program

GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Wood Prices For Senior Citizens

Committee Report 14-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Final Report On Health And Hospital Boards In The Northwest Territories

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Rescinding Of Motion 14-12(3) Titled "provisional Rule Change In Sitting Hours"

Tabled Document 91-12(3) And Tabled Document 92-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole

Tabled Document 19-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Bill 23: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1992-93

Tabled Document 19-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole

Rescinding Of Motion 14-12(3) Titled "provisional Rule Change In Sitting Hours"

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Committee Report 14-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Final Report On Health And Hospital Boards In The Northwest Territories

To Adopt Recommendation 1

To Adopt Recommendation 2

To Adopt Recommendation 3

To Adopt Recommendation 4

To Adopt Recommendation 5

To Adopt Recommendation 6

To Adopt Recommendation 7

To Adopt Recommendation 8

To Adopt Recommendation 9

To Adopt Recommendation 10

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Mr. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 901

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Before I proceed with the orders of the day I have message from the Commissioner. It reads, "Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories the passage of Bill 23, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1992-93, during the Third Session of the 12th Legislative Assembly.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 60-12(3): Victims Assistance Committee

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 901

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce the appointments of Thelma Tees, Rebecca Williams, and Julia Putulik to the Victims Assistance committee for three year terms effective March 1.

The Victims Assistance Committee is established under the Victims of Crimes Act. It is mandated to make recommendations to the Minister of Justice on policies and programs respecting services to victims. Its main role has been to make recommendations on financial contributions from a victims assistance fund for victim related activities in training, direct service delivery, public information and awareness, and research.

Thelma Tees of Yellowknife, the new chairperson, has been until recently, the executive director of Northern Addictions Services. She served for 18 years in the addictions field.

Rebecca Williams is a homemaker in Arctic Bay who was a community social services worker for the past ten years and before that worked for ten years as a nursing assistant.

Julia Putulik is the community school counsellor for the Victor Sammurtok School in Chesterfield Inlet. She is a member of the Canadian Guidance and Counselling Association and a councillor for the hamlet council.

The combined knowledge and experience of these appointees will be a great help in improving the level of assistance given to victims who must deal with the criminal justice system. At this time, I would also like to express my sincere appreciation to the original members of the victims assistance committee for their support.

Previous members of the committee included Ms. Jan Stirling, Mr. Joanasie Salomonie and Ms. Nora Sanders. During their terms, the committee recommended 128 proposals to the Minister of Justice , for total contributions of over $336,000 from the victims assistance fund.

The new committee held its first meeting on March 11, by teleconference, and made recommendations to me for funding for eight organizations. In this time of fiscal restraint, the victims assistance fund is proving to be a vital source for supporting victim-related services. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 60-12(3): Victims Assistance Committee

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 901

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members statements. Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 901

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of everyone in Fort Providence I would like to thank the peewee hockey team for a job well done in a tournament held in Yellowknife last weekend.

---Applause

We could not be more proud of each of these young people. Team members are Neil Bonnetrouge, Scott Bonnetrouge, Ben Bonnetrouge, Elaina Krutcho, Michael Krutcho, Carl Squirrel, Sammy Baptiste-Gargan, William Landry, Ryan Larson, Augustine Minoza, Joseph Canadien, and Brandon Matto.

Mr. Speaker, I may be somewhat bias but I firmly believe that this team should be elected to the peewee hall of fame for their display of the three Es, energy, endurance and effort. I should point out, Mr. Speaker, that during the weekend I had an opportunity to be Mr. Mom. Two of the peewee players, one of whom was my son, were billeted with me in my Yellowknife residence for the weekend. It was to say, the very least, a hectic weekend. The players arrived late Friday evening, and Saturday began with a game at 12:30 pm. After the games the team went swimming. They would like to thank mayor Pat McMahon for providing us with the free swimming pool tickets.

The team then left the pool and went directly to the ice for a game at 4:30 pm.

Mr. Speaker, our team started off strong and took commanding leads in both games. Sadly, they eventually fell behind in goals to their much larger opponents. However, as I have said earlier, they continued to play with energy, endurance and effort. Following the last game on Saturday we took the team to McDonalds and later to see a movie, Aladdin. After the movie I took my billets to the video store to rent a couple of cartoons. However, Mr. Speaker, they were exhausted and were sound asleep before the first movie was over.

All in all it was an enjoyable day for these young people. I want to thank their coaches, Murray David and Rudolph Landry for their efforts and the Snowshoe Inn for providing our team with professional looking blue and white uniforms. Mr. Speaker, this is probably the first time our community has sent its youngest team to a territorial event. Perhaps some parents were concerned about the trip but I would just like to assure...

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Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Gargan , your allotted time has expired.

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Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, this is probably the first time that our community has sent its youngest team to a territorial event. Perhaps some parents were concerned regarding the trip, however, I would like to assure parents that the coaches and the support staff acted very responsibly and knew the whereabouts of each player at all times. Mahsi Cho, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement Congratulating Peewee Hockey Team In Fort Providence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Pages From Nunakput Riding

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the Legislative Assembly for having some of my young constituents down here with the privilege of being pages this week, Fred Kataoyak, Barry Elias, Sandra Oloaryok, and Lucy Akoakhion. They are here for the rest of the week. I appreciate the opportunity.

---Applause

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Pages From Nunakput Riding

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Ms. Cournoyea . Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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A Successful Wood Buffalo Frolics In Fort Smith

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the weekend the Wood Buffalo Frolics were held in my constituency. I would like to take the time to commend, particularly Eugene Bourque, the town recreation director for coordinating such a successful event. Mr. Speaker, there were many different events held for both children and adults. It was very interesting to see the participation in the kiddies northern events and not only the adult northern events. There were very good events held over all. Unfortunately, I missed some of them due to previous commitments. However, I was able to observe many of them on Saturday and Sunday.

I would like to commend not only the recreational director, but all the people who have placed forth their time and effort through volunteer services to make such a successful Wood Buffalo Frolics for the community of Fort Smith. Thank you.

---Applause

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A Successful Wood Buffalo Frolics In Fort Smith

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 469-12(3): Report From Industrial Disputes Inquiry

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 902

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question, asked by Mr. Lewis on March 11, regarding the report of the industrial disputes inquiry at Royal Oak.

According to the most recent information received by the Government of the Northwest Territories, the federal Minister of Labour has not received a report by the industrial disputes inquiry looking into the Giant Mine labour dispute since an interim report was issued by the commissioners to the federal Minister on February 4, 1993, and released to the Government of the Northwest Territories February 5, 1993. Thank you.

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Return To Question 469-12(3): Report From Industrial Disputes Inquiry

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk .

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Question 482-12(3): Panarctic Dumping Waste Metal Into Arctic Ocean

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 902

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for environment a question. The people in the high Arctic still have a concern with regard to PanArctic dumping metal garbage into the ocean. That is a great concern of my constituents at this time. I wonder if the Minister can tell me today if the federal government has any response to your department with regard to dumping metal garbage into the ocean. Thank you.

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Question 482-12(3): Panarctic Dumping Waste Metal Into Arctic Ocean

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 902

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Minister.

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Question 482-12(3): Panarctic Dumping Waste Metal Into Arctic Ocean

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 902

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since last Friday when the House was sitting, I said I had a call into Minister Collins to see if she could find alternatives rather than dumping the scrap metal into the ocean. I spoke to her that night and my staff have been pursuing this issue with different departments, mostly Environment Canada. My executive assistant has been speaking to Ms. Collins' staff. As of 1:15 pm today, it was confirmed that the permit date will be

postponed from March 19 to April 15. This will allow the communities to have more input in the disposal of the scrap metal. The federal Environment, I was told, still has an opportunity to establish a board of review. I was told for the meeting of March 15 the officials of the federal department are still working on details of how they will conduct the review with the communities. Thank you.

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Question 482-12(3): Panarctic Dumping Waste Metal Into Arctic Ocean

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier . On April 2, 1992, and again on December 10, 1992, I asked the Premier if she could advise the House as to the status of the planning for privatization that the government's privatization policy requires. Each department is required to update and report on its privatization plan on an annual basis according to that policy. In December, Mr. Speaker, the Premier offered to prepare a list of the progress throughout government in this area. Mr.

Speaker, since it has now been close to a year since my first question and I have yet to receive an answer on this issue, I would like to ask the Premier if she could advise the House as to the status of the departmental planning and reporting for privatization.

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Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, we have been working with the departments so they can provide information on privatization in the areas they are responsible for. The papers have come back to Cabinet on a number of occasions. Because it was felt they were not complete, the departments continue to provide details on particular areas of concern which we have. The work is not complete, but it is not for lack of effort. We are hoping to get the information in such a way that it will be the best possible information. It is not that we are not trying, but it has not come back after being returned to the departments a number of times. Thank you.

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Return To Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I can appreciate that this may take some time to put this information together, however it has been under way for quite some time and it is, according to the policy, something which is supposed to be done on an annual basis. I was wondering if the Premier could advise whether we can expect the information to be provided to the House before the end of this session.

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Supplementary To Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Supplementary To Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will take that as notice and provide a response to that question tomorrow. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Question 483-12(3): Status Of Departmental Planning And Reporting For Privatization

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 484-12(3): Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Government Services . Mr. Speaker, last year on June 29, specifically, I asked an oral question to the Minister of Government Services , however at the time the Minister of Government Services was absent so Mr. Pollard took my question as notice. I still have this question unanswered to date. I would like to ask the Minister of Government Services , according to Government Services the department imposes a licence fee to retailers in the NWT in respect to liquor licensing. What is the purpose of the licence fee which is imposed to retailers in the Northwest Territories?

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Question 484-12(3): Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Government Services , Mr. Morin .

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Question 484-12(3): Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will have to take that question as notice and get back to the Member.

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Question 484-12(3): Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance . On Saturday, March 6, the Minister of Finance spoke to the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce at their annual general meeting. Apparently the Minister spoke about the state of the economy in the territories, and about ways to invest in the development of new roads in the Northwest Territories. My question to the Minister is, I assume the Minister had some prepared text for his hour long presentation to the chamber. Can the Minister provide us with a copy of the presentation which he delivered to the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce?

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Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I did not speak from prepared text so I am unable to give the Members of the House prepared text. I just spoke off the cuff, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I heard that the Minister stated in his speech that this government might borrow up to $250 million to invest in new roads for resource development. Can the Minister confirm as to whether or not he stated that this government might borrow up to $250 million to invest in new roads?

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Supplementary To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 903

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if I could just set the scene, the question being asked was about a road from Yellowknife to the Arctic Ocean with a port at Coppermine.

There was a question about how something that size gets paid for, and I explained that there has been some discussion between industry and the federal government and as far as the Government of the Northwest Territories is concerned, if it could be proven to me that it was going to benefit the Northwest Territories, if there was going to spin-offs for jobs, if there was going to be northern businesses put to work, if there was long-term economic benefits over a period of 20 or 25 years, then I would consider going to Cabinet with a recommendation that we borrow $250 million.

That number was pulled out of the air, last July it was $200 million, but I think now it is closer to $250 million, Mr. Speaker, and it may be more, I do not know. I did mention that number and did indicate that I would be prepared, if all those conditions were met, to recommendation to Cabinet that we borrow against that specific project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If this government was to borrow this money, obviously it would have to put up some kind of security. With the state of the budget and our fiscal framework the way it is, how does the Minister propose to provide the security for a $250 million loan?

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Supplementary To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I should clarify that Mr. Todd is the lead Minister in this particular project, which is the road north of Yellowknife. Specific to Mr. Koe 's question of how we would borrow that money, the Government of the Northwest Territories does have borrowing capacity, Mr. Speaker, it does not have an accumulated debt and there is an agreement between the Northwest Territories and the federal government whereby we do have borrowing capacity. As to how much it would be, the number I placed upon it was $250 million. Mr. Todd 's work may prove me wrong.

Once we had ascertained the amount that would be required and once we had seen who else was in this arrangement with us, then it may be that there is an overall financing package for the total deal including the federal government. If we were to go it on our own, then obviously we would be looking around for where we could get the best deal for borrowing that kind of money, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Yes, I assume with the statements the Minister made that this would be a sign of the times with a new trend being pursued by this government in that major investments such as this, deals can be made and maybe we may go into a deficit by borrowing. Can the Minister confirm whether that is a new direction this government is taking in terms of future major investments?

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Supplementary To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, it would not necessarily take us into a deficit position. We would be borrowing against the specific project. It would not be the first time we have done it, we bought the Power Corporation and we still owe money on that. We owe Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation $93 million and we are still paying on that. It would not be anything that has not been done in the past. I would point out to the House, Mr. Speaker, that there has been several innovative suggestions, one from the Dogrib communities about how this road could be built with us not necessarily having to borrow the money.

There have been suggestions that arrangements could be made with industry. I know Mr. Todd has all of those suggestions before him and is combing through them to see whether he can put some arrangement together that will be innovative and will be least costly to us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To Nwt Chamber Of Commerce

Question 485-12(3): Minister's Presentation To NWT Chamber Of Commerce

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Friday when we concluded question period I asked the Minister with regard to the inmates exchange program between the penitentiaries and corrections. The Minister responded by saying, under the agreement, when an inmate is transferred back up here, then they are under our laws and legislation. I would like to ask the Minister, under this agreement, how is a decision determined for who stays up here and who does not? Is it the Government of the Northwest Territories or is it the federal government that determines that?

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Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 904

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

case, this inmate that a couple of Members of this House have zeroed in on over the last few months is, in fact, a person who has grown up, been educated and lived almost her entire life here in the Northwest Territories. This is home to this particular inmate.

As far as the exchange agreement is concerned, there are some general provisions as to how you become eligible to benefit from this agreement, but specifically, it is because this is a first time offender, this is an inmate who does not present a risk to the public, that has no previous or limited experience in prison, that has been almost a life time resident of the Northwest Territories and, for this reason, the agreement has been able to provide for this particular inmate. Thank you.

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Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Supplementary To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the response I received from the Minister. Mr. Speaker, one of the things which is always said is that justice must not only be done but seen to be done. With regard to the Minister's response today, he said a first time offender. When you refer to a first time offender are you referring to one offence or continuous offences all bunched into one. You are looking at theft continued on a consistent base for a whole year. Is that part of the consideration? Are we looking at that all being bunched together? If that is precedent setting, I think anyone who is being charged with a driving offence should be given the same consideration.

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Supplementary To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, as I understand it in committing an offence there may be a series of charges made regarding an incident or incidences. What I understand, in this case, I am not knowledgeable about the particular details, it is considered a first time offence. This is the first time this particular inmate was brought to trial, charged and convicted. This is a first time conviction possibly for only one charge, and possibly for a number of other ones.

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Supplementary To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am correct, with the Minister's response, this individual was charged for one charge as a first offence, as opposed to all of the mini-charges which she has committed.

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Supplementary To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

I do not have that information readily available, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Point of order, Mr. Gargan .

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My point of order is, is the Minister taking my questions as notice?

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Further Return To Question 486-12(3): Conditions On Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Question 486-12(3): Conditions Regarding Where Inmates Are Incarcerated

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

No, I have said a number of times in the House, unless a Minister specifically takes a question as notice then it is not considered taken as notice. It is still open to further questioning. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources regarding the environment. It was indeed good news to hear the Ministers return concerning the dumping off of Lougheed Island by PanArctic at the end of next week, with a delay until the 15. Mr. Speaker, my question concerns the board of review. It was mentioned that the board of review would be meeting. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the composition of this board of review?

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Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do not know the composition of the board of review at the present time. We do not know who is going to be involved. I was told the meetings will take place on March 25 in the two communities. The details are being worked out. The federal government is looking at a board of review. It is up to the Minister to establish a board of review. She assured me, last Friday, that the department and herself are going to work on the details. As soon as they know about the terms of reference which will be given to the board and their work plan, she will advise me. Thank you.

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Return To Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Government of the Northwest Territories seek a position on this board of review?

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Supplementary To Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the board of review is established we will seek to have input and also, if we are allowed, place a person on the board. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Question 487-12(3): Composition Of Review Board Re Off-shore Dumping

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 905

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question 488-12(3): Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the beginning of January, 1992, I raised a concern from the residents of Sanikiluaq regarding the Department of Health. The previous ministry was not able to provide an adequate response. The residents of Sanikiluaq are not trying to put up opposition. I am not sure if they are going to get a regional hospital in the Keewatin. The residents of Sanikiluaq had a concern that if there was to be a regional hospital built in the Keewatin, they want to continue going to Kuujjuaq if they have to go to the hospital.

They think there will be more inconveniences, especially when there are medevacs. I would like to ask the Minister of Health regarding the stage they are at now and if she can provide me with a response during this session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 488-12(3): Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike .

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Question 488-12(3): Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take his question as notice.

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Question 488-12(3): Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice . Hopefully if he answers this question we can put this issue to rest. Mr. Speaker, my colleague for Deh Cho has said that justice must not only be done, but it must also be seen to be done. How is the Minister of Justice assuring the public of the Northwest Territories with regard to the issue of an inmate who misappropriated funds, in excess of a quarter of a million dollars of public funds, that justice is seen to be done? Thank you.

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Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have said last week that perhaps it is a good thing that politicians are not the ones who decide a sentence or punishment which is going to be inflicted on people for their wrong doing. In this case the particular individual has seen a career that is totally wiped out, any credibility, her personal self-esteem totally eradicated, the high profile which was given to it through the media and ongoing by politicians is a form of punishment. There was a sentence handed down by the court which is the due process that we respect regardless of its efficiency or shortcomings. That is the way it is done.

If individual politicians or Members feel there is not enough punishment, I would be interested to know why. The focus, I think from our point of view, is to help people who have committed a wrong doing and not send them to the bottom of the dungeon not to be seen again. People have to be prepared and helped to come back and be part of society. We extend it certainly to our own aboriginal people, we should extend it to all people regardless of race. Thank you.

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Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the Minister did not answer the question. However, Mr. Speaker, the Minister wanted to know why we do not feel that justice is being seen to be done. Mr. Speaker, we have an inmate who is enrolled in one of the educational facilities, Arctic College, taking management studies, who has been given a sentence of three years, and within six months this inmate is attending school. I am still trying to find out who paid the tuition when many other students in the Northwest Territories have to absorb their own tuition.

I would like to ask the Minister if he would review his corrections division to give assurance to the public, in this particular case, that justice is seen to be done by the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, my view is that there are two Members of this Legislature who have taken a particular interest in this inmate. I understand there is a perception on their part that there is not enough punishment for the offence which was committed. I do not see it as a great public concern judging from the lack of interest in other quarters. We have an exchange agreement, Mr. Speaker, a month ago I indicated that if Members had a particular problem with the provisions of the exchange agreement then perhaps that is what we should focus on.

The exchange agreement provides and makes certain provisions for people who are first time offenders, people who are from the Northwest Territories, not only the aboriginal peoples of the Northwest Territories but all long-term and life time residents of the north. The exchange agreement provides for the things which the particular inmate is now being accorded access to. She is attending courses, she is paying for the courses herself.

It is seen as a good positive means of an individual rebuilding self-esteem, confidence, some belief that upon release the individual will have some capacity, mentally, physically, and academically to become a productive, accepted member of society. The exchange agreement is what the Members are focusing on and I would be prepared to table it and then the Members can focus on that rather than a particular individual. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 906

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to make it explicitly clear to the Minister that I do not appreciate the imputative motive that he is making toward me, that an inmate should be dealt with in a harsher manner. I think the issue at hand, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that the public does not feel that justice is seen to be done. That is the issue at hand. I would like to ask the Minister, how can he assure the public, to avoid something such as this happening in the future, that justice is being done? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there seems to be a fundamental difference of opinion, since I do not see anyone calling for a public inquiry asking for this gross injustice to be dealt with. I do not see anyone asking for some specific focus to be dealt with. I do not agree with the Member that she is the sole spokesperson for what the public thinks should be done in any case. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, whether the Minister agrees with it or not, I am the spokesperson for the concerns that my constituents bring to me, whether you like it or not. I would like to ask the Minister and I certainly hope he takes the courtesy of trying to answer Member's questions on this side of the House, can he indicate to me how is his department assuring the public, particularly regarding the issue of an inmate who has misappropriated public funds in excess of a quarter of a million dollars, that justice is seen to be done under his department. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to remind Members there is nothing in our rules which compels a Minister to answer or compels a Minister to answer in a certain way. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I tried to answer the questions, the same question as last week. It is recorded in Hansard. When a person commits an offence, particularly a serious offence, it is the federal government which organizes itself and lays the charges. It goes before a court. That is the due process. There is argument for and against. They are presumed innocent until the court finds otherwise. Once that is done a sentence is passed.

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Further Return To Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Question 489-12(3): Public Perception Re Fort Smith Inmate

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. New question, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 490-12(3): Eligibility Criteria For Legal Aid On Appeals

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I will try again with the Minister of Justice on a different topic. Mr. Speaker, a couple of week ago my colleague for Deh Cho raised a number of concerns, particularly about the way the legal aid program is operating in the Northwest Territories. He has concerns, I would like to state for the record that I agree with him, that there are certainly many problems with legal aid and that it seems to be time for the Minister to take some type of role in trying to correct them. Mr.

Speaker, I am concerned about the procedures which are used for determining whether legal aid funding should be funding the court appeals of persons who have been found guilty of various offences. I certainly believe that at least in most cases the offenders original lawyer provides the executive director with a statement of opinion on whether there is grounds for an appeal. I have also been informed of different situations in which the appeal may be called for because of the apparent inadequacy of cases that have been produced by the lawyers themselves.

Can the Minister of Justice indicate whether he would be willing to review the procedures used within the legal aid program for evaluating the funding of offenders' appeals? Thank you.

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Question 490-12(3): Eligibility Criteria For Legal Aid On Appeals

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 490-12(3): Eligibility Criteria For Legal Aid On Appeals

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice.

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Question 490-12(3): Eligibility Criteria For Legal Aid On Appeals

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Personnel . I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel when government employees are granted education leave, are there restrictions placed on whether they are able to take on full work with other governments, private sectors or organizations? Thank you.

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Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the education leave with pay and leave without pay have different provisions in them. I think generally if they are on education leave with pay it would be frowned on if the person found the time to take away from full studies to do another job full-time. If the leave is without pay, then I would think it is really none of our business what they do with their spare time in order to make income. Thank you.

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Return To Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Personnel indicated that if educational leave is granted individuals should be going to an institution, and if they are taking another job under educational leave, if they can find the time, it would be frowned upon. Therefore, is he indicating to this House that educational leave is to be used for the sole purpose of an individual within the civil service to be taking time off for educational purposes to attend an educational institution? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 907

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I think if a person took education leave to go to university for instance, and took

it without pay, the individual could go work at McDonalds on weekends without the government objecting. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Question 491-12(3): Employment Restrictions For Staff On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Government Services . I know we have covered this area before but I just have to ask again. Several of the communities in the Deh Cho region and my constituency in Nahendeh, Jean Marie River, Trout Lake and Nahanni Butte, have very limited telephone service. They each have one community telephone and that is it. This seems to be the only region left in the Northwest Territories which does not have regular service. The residents of these communities have asked me for help and support in trying to do something about it.

I know there is a plan with NorthwesTel to have telephone services improved, but it is in 1995 and 1996 and that is a long time to wait to get improved services. Could the Minister tell me if there is anything his department is doing presently to try to help provide necessary telephone services into these communities? Thank you.

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Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At present we are still working with NorthwesTel to review the various options which would enable these smaller communities to get this service as soon as possible. It is a basic service which all communities should have. Hopefully, we will be finished the review with NorthwesTel in the very near future. That will give me the information I need to take a package to Cabinet to get their approval. Thank you.

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Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, the Minister told me nearly the same thing last fall. I am wondering if the Minister could look at different ways in the interim to try to help out these communities receive better communication services. They have only one telephone, usually a pay phone in a public place and it is very difficult to communicate. They do not have a fax line and in this day and age of instant communication they need that so they know what is going on in the outside world, communication-wise. Could the Minister tell me if there is anything in the interim, immediately, that his department could do? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware of anything temporary that we could do. The costs are fairly great to supply services to these small unserviced communities, but I believe it is an essential service which the community should have and I will pursue it and get back to the Member within this week with a time frame. Is that satisfactory? Okay. Thanks.

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Further Return To Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Question 492-12(3): Telephone Services In Smaller Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice a question with regard to the status of the director of corrections. When the Minister brought forth his budget he indicated that Mr. Dillon was acting director of corrections. I know this position was previously filled by Mr. DuPerron and I have not seen any announcement that he has left employment of the Government of the NWT. Can the Minister of Justice advise the House as to the status of the appointment of the director of corrections? Thank you.

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Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the particular employee has taken one year off to finish off some educational work. As a Minister I have supported this. The expectation is that once the individual has completed the requirements for his degree, he will return to his work as director of corrections. Thank you.

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Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat surprised that Mr. DuPerron was granted educational leave, however the Minister indicated he supported this. To my knowledge he has not been a long-term employee of this government and he does not qualify under the affirmative action program. Can the Minister explain why special consideration was given to this corrections official to complete a degree in educational administration, when so many other candidates for educational leave were turned down? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the request by this particular individual was to take one year off from the government. He specifically said he was doing it to finish off some courses at university. He asked if I would comply with that. He has not officially been given educational leave and the benefits that usually come with that.

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Further Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 908

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister advise this House as to whether Mr. DuPerron has been, indeed, granted educational leave? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the individual was granted leave without pay. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, there are different types of leave: leave without pay, educational leave with pay and educational leave without pay. I would like to ask the Minister, he just has to say yes or no, has the previous director of corrections been granted educational leave with pay or without pay? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the particular individual was given leave without pay. There is no educational element involved in this at all from the government's point of view.

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Further Return To Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Question 493-12(3): Status Of Director Of Corrections

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 494-12(3): Determination Of Retailer For Inmates Wood Cutting Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice and it has to do with wood cutting. I would like to thank the Minister for a detailed answer to a written question, but the written answer raises more questions, Mr. Speaker. The Minister's response indicates that ten retail clients in Yellowknife bought 500 cords of wood during this fiscal year. How do you determine whether someone who gets wood in Hay River, in fact, is a retailer just simply because he buys the wood there?

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Question 494-12(3): Determination Of Retailer For Inmates Wood Cutting Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 494-12(3): Determination Of Retailer For Inmates Wood Cutting Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice. Thank you.

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Question 494-12(3): Determination Of Retailer For Inmates Wood Cutting Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Justice . Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether the Minister of Justice is aware in respect to Mr. DuPerron taking leave without pay for educational purposes from this government, that apparently he quite quickly accepted additional full-time employment with the Government of Alberta. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that he commenced work with the Alberta Health department on January 4, 1993, on an 18 month term position and his office is located somewhere on the 13th floor of a Jasper Avenue building.

He is attempting to work in the human resource services division, completing a human resource strategic plan and the establishment of a work force information network. These are projects which, as the Minister knows, have never been fully addressed in our own correctional system. Recognizing that the Government of the Northwest Territories has had to endure a certain amount of inconveniences, I believe, to support Mr.

DuPerron's request for educational leave, can the Minister explain how he is working full-time for the Government of Alberta and on a leave without pay status with the Government of the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons I supported Mr. Duperron to go on leave was because I believe the reasons he gave were good reasons. He had also made a commitment that upon completion he would return to his work in corrections. It was my understanding that if we had refused he would have gone to do those things he wanted to do anyway. I felt it was a good way to proceed. We took his word that he would come back at the end of his term. We are, of course, interested in having him back. If in the course of his leave he found that things have changed then he is to contact us.

The Member is raising information that I am not privy to and I would wish to confirm myself. Once I have confirmed it I will deal with it appropriately. Thank you.

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Return To Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, normally if a Minister gives leave without pay they try to find out for what purpose before they support it. However, I would like to ask the Minister since he is not aware of the full situation, would he review this particular issue so he can provide a full report to the Members before the end of the current session? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 909

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Yes.

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Further Return To Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Question 495-12(3): GNWT Employee's Employment While On Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 910

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 496-12(3): Wood Prices For Senior Citizens

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 910

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

A new question on the same subject, Mr. Speaker. It is about wood cutting. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice since there is two prices for the sale of wood out of the correctional centre in Hay River, could he indicate whether the second price, the $55 per cord which senior citizens have to pay, applies also to senior citizens outside of Hay River? In other words, can senior citizens in Yellowknife buy cord wood in Hay River at $55 a cord?

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Question 496-12(3): Wood Prices For Senior Citizens

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 910

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 496-12(3): Wood Prices For Senior Citizens

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 910

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will take that as notice. Thank you.

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Question 496-12(3): Wood Prices For Senior Citizens

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 910

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Koe .

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Committee Report 14-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Final Report On Health And Hospital Boards In The Northwest Territories

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 910

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a report from the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions. This is the final report on the health and hospital boards in the Northwest Territories.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions has completed its review of health and hospital boards in the Northwest Territories. The standing committee held public hearings in Fort Smith on January 22, 1992, and organized a day of consultation session in Yellowknife with representatives of health and hospital boards on November 21, 1992. In addition, the committee has met on several occasions over the 14 month review period to consider written submissions and research material.

Based on this review, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions finds that there are serious grounds for concern with respect to constraints faced by health and hospital boards in the Northwest Territories. This has the potential to negatively affect the administration of health facilities, programs and services.

Since the transfer of health responsibilities from federal to territorial authority in 1988 many northerners have held the expectation that health services would be operated, managed and controlled by regionally-based health and hospital boards. This has been accepted as an approach that would allow decisions regarding the regional administration and delivery of health services to be made by the people who are mostly affected by them.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions is concerned that this well reasoned approach is not working as it should. There is a disconcerting level of confusion about the roles which should be played by the Department of Health and by health and hospital boards. The standing committee also found that the degree of centralized control presented exercised over the boards by the department is in many cases excessive. This, in the committee's view, has led to counter productive conflict and strain within the health system.

An interim report, Committee Report No. 9-12(3), was tabled in the 12th Legislative Assembly on December 10, 1992, and indicated that "a serious state of affairs presently exists within the administration of the territorial health care system." Although there has been some initial progress toward the development of agreements defining respective roles for the department and the boards, the standing committee has found little evidence to suggest that the "seriousness" of this situation has lessen appreciably.

Clearly, some direction action needs to be taken to clarify and redefine the respective roles of the department and the boards. It is the standing committee's position that the Legislative Assembly could provide badly needed direction to this process by formally acknowledging that the boards are the primary agents for the management and delivery of health services to regions and communities across the Northwest Territories. The role of the Department of Health should more properly be one of supporting rather than directing the management decisions of health and hospital boards.

As noted in the interim report, a process is now under way to establish a "master memorandum of understanding" aimed at clarifying issues of authority and accountability. The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions applauds this initiative and takes the position that it should be considered a high priority for the Minister of Health and the boards. At the same time, however, the standing committee recognizes that changes in legislation and in the prevailing attitude which has been observed to exist within the Department of Health will also be required if existing problems are to be resolved.

Generally, the final report emphasizes that within a system in place that relies on "boards of management," it is important for the Department of Health to stand back and allow them to manage, providing technical assistance and support as required. This will necessitate a sense of trust and collaboration on the part of all health stakeholders that appeared to have been largely lacking to date.

A change in outlook will be necessary if the parties are ever going to be able to address the significant barriers which were observed by the standing committee to hinder effective administration within our current health system.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions was deeply concerned, for instance, with the apparent absence of territorial planning and direction with which to guide health expenditures and services. Although all health and hospital boards are presently engaged in planning initiatives to some extent, the standing committee observed that these currently occur in isolation. The committee noted that it is essential to develop better mechanisms for channelling boards' planning initiatives into headquarters where they can be coordinated within a larger territorial framework.

However, needs assessment and strategy development cannot be centrally imposed. Health planning must be a regionally driven process.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions notes that there seems to have been much discussion about the balance between health board autonomy and fiscal accountability. The committee takes the position that increased board autonomy and internal accountability controls are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, the standing committee was rather impressed with the commitment that health and hospital boards have demonstrated to improving financial procedures and expertise over the years since the health transfer.

Clearly, the well-documented deficiencies which presently exist within computerized accounting and statistical systems, the amount of time board personnel have to spend dealing with information demands from officials in Yellowknife, and the inadequate funding base inherited from health transfer have been very real barriers to fiscal management by the boards. Also of concern to the standing committee was the current lack of incentive provided to the boards for appropriate administration.

Accordingly, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions is proposing that a new policy should be put in place to allow health and hospital boards to use budget surpluses to support specific projects aimed at improving health conditions or awareness in their regions.

The standing committee believes, as well, that there needs to be a renewed emphasis on human resource development within the health and hospital boards. Some specific concerns about boards' records of aboriginal hiring, staff training and interpreter/translator services were specifically considered during the committee's review.

By far the greatest area of concern regarding human resources, however, was the very unacceptable level of orientation and training that has been offered to trustees who sit on health and hospital boards. The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions was dismayed to observe that funding levels for boards training, departmental support and available information materials were all clearly inadequate. The standing committee believes that, to ensure that appropriate priority is accorded to board orientation in the future, specific statutory responsibilities in this regard should be established in legislation.

Members of the standing committee also felt that certain barriers exist with respect to the ability of boards to have effective input in the establishment of health policy and priorities. Additional mechanisms must be developed to enable health boards, as well as community, regional and aboriginal organizations to provide input to senior decision-making levels within our health system. Effort also needs to be directed toward a joint strategy for dealing with the erosion of non-insured health services. For these reasons, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions proposes the development of a territorial health advisory committee.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions spent considerable time, as well, examining various models of the structure and organization of health and hospital boards. In this respect, the standing committee believes that the wide demographic diversity and range of health needs which exist between regions should be recognized by allowing each board to define the structure which best meets the needs of the people who live within that region or catchment area. The standing committee is also of the opinion that a priority should be placed on studying the potential election of health and hospital board trustees.

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions was dismayed to note the delay which has existed with respect to appointments made to health and hospital boards. Appointments have not been regularly made and boards have had to cope with lengthy periods of membership vacancy. A more expedient and consistent approach to board appointment is necessary.

While many of the concerns which were observed with respect to health and hospital boards are complex and deeply rooted in the history of the territorial health system, the standing committee is of the opinion that solutions can be found. Members of the standing committee agree with a board representative's comments that, "placing blame is a waste of time and energy", and realize that now is the time to move forward toward new partnerships and effective health management.

---Applause

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions wishes to acknowledge the thoughtful input received from all witnesses during the public hearings and consultation sessions. The committee would thank both the current and previous Ministers of Health for information and suggestions they have provided over the course of the review.

Mr. Speaker, the following recommendations are included in the standing committee's final report on health and hospital boards:

Recommendation No. 1

That the Legislative Assembly formally support that boards of management established under the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act are the primary agents for the management and delivery of health services to regions and communities of the Northwest Territories; and further, that the role of the Department of Health should be one of supporting, rather than directing, the management decisions of health and hospital boards.

Recommendation No. 2

That the Minister of Health should accord a high priority to the finalization of the memorandum of understanding clarifying the roles and responsibilities of health and hospital boards.

Recommendation No. 3

That the Minister of Health should seek advice from health and hospital boards across the Northwest Territories with respect to the amendments that should be made at this time to the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act or other statutes to