Debates of Oct. 27th, 2004

This is page numbers 1013 - 1040 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Land Development To Address Housing Needs

Log Housing Pilot Projects In The Sahtu

Health Concerns Arising From Co-op Housing Conditions

Privatization Of Housing Units

North Slave Housing Units

Housing Policies For Persons With Disabilities

Innovative Solutions To Housing Concerns

Devolution Of Housing Resources To The Community Level

Need For Senior Housing In Yellowknife

NWT Housing Corporation Rent Scale Policy

Return To Oral Question 254-15(3): Aurora College Lease In Northern United Place

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Future Investments In Housing

Housing Health Issues

Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Reduction Of Housing Funding

Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Social Housing Resources

Process To Address Land Shortage In Yellowknife

Development Of Multiyear Program For Housing Repairs

Recruitment Of Health Care Professionals

Northern Housing Construction

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Written Question 58-15(3): GNWT Direct Appointments

Written Question 59-15(3): Thebacha Campus Direct Appointments

Written Question 60-15(3): Long-term Plans For Housing Corporation

Written Question 61-15(3): Compensation And Rehabilitation Programs For Chronic Pain

Written Question 62-15(3): Housing Repair And Construction Funding

Written Question 63-15(3): Rent Scale Policies And Harmonization

Return To Written Question 33-15(3): Northwest Territories Trapping Industry

Adequate, Affordable And Accessible Housing

Issuance Of Special Warrants

Adequate, Affordable And Accessible Housing

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1013

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, Members. Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the visitor's gallery. I am pleased to recognize the district governor, Bruce Christensen and his wife, Cheryl, from Fort St. John, B.C.

---Applause

With them is president Janet Robinson of the Yellowknife Rotary Club.

---Applause

District Governor Bruce represents 53 rotary clubs in Western Canada: Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia; and two in the NWT: Yellowknife and Hay River. Rotary internationals are preparing to celebrate 100 years of community and international service by 1.2 million Rotarians in 166 countries. Their most outstanding achievement in conjunction with international health organizations will be a polio-free world by the end of 2005.

---Applause

Also with them is a fellow Rotarian, acting as their official guide, and a former Speaker of this House, Mr. Tony Whitford.

---Applause

Welcome to the Legislative Assembly. Enjoy your visit to the North. To the orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Land Development To Address Housing Needs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1013

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the price of residential land is determined by the location, cost of development, and supply and demand. Before you have houses, you have to have land to put them on. In Yellowknife, the cost of land has gone through the roof because of the lack of supply and an ever-increasing demand. People are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in cramped townhouses with no land just to put a roof over the heads of their families.

Mr. Speaker, they are the lucky ones. Others are being forced out of apartments that they can no longer afford because of escalating rents. The Salvation Army shelter is full to overflowing with many in this situation. Furthermore, we are trying to encourage skilled people to come and work in the North, but we can't offer them affordable housing.

With the construction of the pipeline requiring all available labour, the Territories is going to be desperate for qualified trades people. The cost of housing up here and the lack of it is going to affect our ability to attract them. Already we have hundreds of fly-in/fly-out workers. Their income taxes and wages are flying out with them, Mr. Speaker. This situation is really strange, Mr. Speaker. We have 1.17 million square kilometres of land, but one of our main housing problems is we have no land to build on.

In the interest of both private and social housing, Mr. Speaker, in areas where land claims are settled, we need to deal with the backlogs and try to speed up the process of transferring land to fee-simple title. Where land claims are not settled, we need to work with community and aboriginal governments to come up with a better way of agreeing to what lands can be developed. Deadlocks are not serving anyone's interest. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Land Development To Address Housing Needs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1013

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Log Housing Pilot Projects In The Sahtu

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1013

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement today is on log housing pilot projects in the Sahtu and Northwest Territories. Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation funding is declining; $33.2 million will be phased out by the year 2038. This is a substantial challenge to the GNWT as a whole, and the NWT Housing Corporation in particular.

A creative solution is needed, Mr. Speaker. According to the community housing needs and detailed results, tabled in the House on October 21st, 35 percent of houses in the Sahtu are in core need. Overcrowding is a problem. Between 13 and 21 percent of homes outside of the regional centre have six persons or more living in them. Only four percent of homes in Yellowknife are this crowded. The average for the Territories as a whole is seven percent.

Since 1981, the percentage of houses in need of major repairs has increased in every one of the communities in the Sahtu, with the exception of Colville Lake. Colville Lake has decreased from 100 percent to 85 percent since 2000. Thirty-nine percent of Fort Good Hope homes are in need of major repairs today. The majority of the GNWT housing budget is spent in communities: 89 percent of the budget.

It is important that communities are consulted on how the communities' needs can be best met. People in the Sahtu are interested in log homes as a viable option at least for seniors. This program can potentially promote self-reliance, provide youth with training opportunities, and get away from cultural dependency. Mr. Speaker, the department says that they are reluctant to pursue this initiative. That initiative has failed in the past due to the high cost of logs and the cost of trainers. The cost is substantially reduced when you factor in the benefits of capacity building, local materials and housing that is more culturally appropriate for our people: the pride of creating a home.

Mr. Speaker, the report on the draft estimates that the program for smaller communities are more economically...(inaudible)...Mr. Speaker, the official records show no indication that the current Minister of Housing is going to follow through on the commitment made by the previous Minister. I will ask questions during oral question period. Thank you.

---Applause

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Log Housing Pilot Projects In The Sahtu

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1014

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Health Concerns Arising From Co-op Housing Conditions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1014

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I wish to speak once again on the issue of housing in our communities; not about housing statistics or policies and programs, today I want to put a human face on housing. I want to tell you the story of one of my constituents and the situation she finds herself in. It is a personal story, one of an elderly person involving one household, but it is not unique. I am concerned that there are many such stories out there.

This particular woman received a house from the NWT Housing Corporation about 15 years ago. Until recently, she was very happy with the house. It was a healthy and secure place for her and her family. It was a good thing, Mr. Speaker, good on her and good for the Housing Corporation. But a few years ago, things started to go wrong; not through anyone's fault necessarily, it was probably just due to the age of the house. Water began to seep into the basement; well, not exactly seep. Every spring, as the snow melted, the basement flooded.

With so much water coming in the basement of the house, it never completely dried out. As a result, the basement walls are now covered with black mould and, in some places, even green slime.

Now, after living with the problem for several years, the people in the house have developed health problems. First the woman began to suffer from chronic headaches. Now she is making a series of visits to doctors to seek relief from a serious skin rash that has developed. The doctors say she has developed an allergy, something she never suffered from before. She has also developed asthma and is now very concerned about her health. But her primary concern is with the health of her two grandchildren who also live in the house. The youngest, a baby, is constantly ill, and the older grandchild, who is only five years old, has developed asthma too, even at that young age.

The Housing Corporation recognized a problem and, to their credit, spent $65,000 to repair the house. But here is another sad twist to the story. The house didn't get fixed. The contractor may have done something, but no one from the Housing Corporation came to see if the work had been done properly. As it turns out, it wasn't. The basement still floods, and the health problems of the house occupants persist.

This story isn't over yet, so I am wondering how it will end. Will it have a happy ending? Will this woman get the help she needs and get her house fixed properly, or does this story end tragically with debilitating lifelong health problems?

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Health Concerns Arising From Co-op Housing Conditions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1014

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Menicoche , your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Health Concerns Arising From Co-op Housing Conditions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1014

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, thank you.

---Applause

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Health Concerns Arising From Co-op Housing Conditions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1014

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Members, I would like to draw your attention once more to the visitor's gallery with the presence of a former Member of this House, a former Minister, a former Speaker, a former Government House Leader, Mr. Richard Nerysoo.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Privatization Of Housing Units

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1014

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recently, the NWT Housing Corporation has put some of their units for sale in the NWT; in particular, older units or units considered to be in need of major repair.

Mr. Speaker, there are, as I see it, two types of buyers for these units. Firstly, there are the elderly, who have lived in these units for 20 years or more. Once they purchase these units, they become responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the units. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that, given the fact that these elders live on a fixed pension income, their purchasing the unit will create hardship for them when they have to pay for ongoing maintenance costs. Now I realize, Mr.

Speaker, that the Housing Corporation has provided some relief to elderly homeowners through their newly announced maintenance program that will service things like furnaces. However, it may be necessary in some communities to do more as there is not a private sector to do work on housing units.

A second group of purchasers would be businesspeople who are looking to service a rental market. I know a business in Tuktoyaktuk that purchased two units and spent a considerable amount of money renovating and a considerable amount of time resolving land title issues. He is now having trouble renting these units out because there is a limited private rental market in Tuktoyaktuk at the moment and causes main competition with the units managed by another organization. In any event, Mr. Speaker, this person is a businessman who understood the risk of what he was getting into.

I applaud the Housing Corporation for taking the steps to sell off the old housing stocks. However, Mr. Speaker, I would urge the Housing Corporation to ensure that any

potential purchaser, be it an elder or a businessperson, understand the responsibilities of homeownership and be provided information on the current rental market. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Privatization Of Housing Units

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Zoe .

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North Slave Housing Units

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak on a couple of issues affecting housing in my riding of North Slave. I am concerned with the delivery of the market housing initiative in the North Slave in 2005. This year, the community of Rae-Edzo was fortunate enough to receive six units. If there is a need for market housing units in the three other communities in the North Slave, they will have to be shipped in by the winter road usually before April 15th. This is the only option, Mr. Speaker. The last time I looked, there wasn't a summer barge program to Gameti or my two other communities.

So if we decide that the program will continue in 2005, the Housing Corporation is going to have to be prepared to ensure that the needs of the communities without a summer road or barge service are met in a very timely manner. Judging by the performance during the first year of the marketing housing initiative, Mr. Speaker, this caused me some concern.

The other area I would like to talk about is the delivery of repair programs in the North Slave. Many of my constituents wait years to have their units repaired. What has been occurring is that the housing authority waits until they have funding to do a major overhaul on a unit. What I would like to see, Mr.

Speaker -- to reduce the strain on tenants and provide them with a measure of hope that someone is actually trying to meet their needs -- would be a piecemeal approach where, for example, in one year, people would have their flooring replaced, or perhaps in the following year the doors and windows repaired or replaced. I am sure if the housing authority was seen to be trying to deal with the issue of inadequacy in a timely manner, the corporation might see an even better result for their 2008 housing survey needs.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that there are a lot of good people working at the local level delivering housing programs in the Northwest Territories. They will, however, be faced with more and more challenges as the federal government reduces funding in the delivery of social housing. The district offices will need to work closely and cooperatively with regional governments and land claim organizations, as well as individual housing clients to get the best value for our diminishing housing funding. Our job as government will be to provide the supports the local housing authorities needs to be successful.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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North Slave Housing Units

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Zoe .

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North Slave Housing Units

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleagues for allowing me to conclude my statement. As I was saying, to get the best value for our diminishing housing funding, our job as government will be to provide the supports the local housing authorities need to be successful. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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North Slave Housing Units

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Zoe . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Housing Policies For Persons With Disabilities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise again to speak about my concerns about the territorial government not having a formal policy in dealing with social housing with people with disabilities. Mr. Speaker, I happened to go back to the transcripts and I noted that for some reason that slipped through my fingers during question period, and so I will be raising that concern with much stronger diligence this time.

Mr. Speaker, I had asked the Minister at that time about where our policy is, and I still don't see us having a policy and I'm afraid that got missed. So, Mr. Speaker, I have to compliment the Minister for his willingness to do an audit and I have to say I was whelmed. Mr. Speaker, it is time we get overwhelmed on this side of the government. It's time that we see true willingness. So, Mr. Speaker, I will be pursuing this shameful policy that we live by or, I should say, without having a policy.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories could be seen as the king of policy, the king of bureaucracy, but it's time to take a public stand on this issue. It's time to take a public stand where we change our Third World conditions that our people with disabilities are living in and we move forward to the First World conditions. We need a policy, we need a comprehensive booklet that works with national standards, so we need to recognize the conditions that our people are living in and it's time to raise the bar. So, Mr. Speaker, later today I will be asking questions of that Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Housing Policies For Persons With Disabilities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Innovative Solutions To Housing Concerns

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1015

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, new industry, unprecedented resource development and population growth are pushing our social infrastructure to the breaking point. Housing warrants our attention on an urgent basis. Our public and social housing system, Mr. Speaker, is built almost entirely on federal funding. Currently we owe $90 million in long-term housing loans to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. It costs us $13 million a year to finance this, Mr. Speaker, and just to give you an illustration on how dependent we are on CMHC, they contribute $12 million of this $13 million annual financing cost to us.

Another dependency that we have is almost $19 million a year in operation and maintenance funding that also

comes from CMHC. Add it all up and this year we will be receiving $33.2 million from CMHC. But that is a sunset program, Mr. Speaker. Under a 40-year deal that was signed with the corporation in the mid-1990s, this very critical and strategic investment in our infrastructure will dwindle, by 2038, to nothing. Yet the only plan that the NWT Housing Corporation has to restore it is, "to continue to lobby the federal government to restore funding to new public housing units and stop the reduction of O and M funding for existing units." I am quoting from the 2003-06 Business Plans tabled here last February.

Mr. Speaker, this is a remarkably lax and uninspiring strategy in the face of a very vital, but vanishing source of money. I wish the federal government had never backed out of its very critical investment in public housing across the country.

---Applause

We cannot trust our corporation's current strategy, simply to continue lobbying to restore that. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I think it would be naive and irresponsible to rest only on that strategy. I believe the solutions lie in innovations and thinking outside the box, Mr. Speaker. The solutions lie in new technology, energy and cost-saving designs, new funding partnerships and a new sense of pride and ownership in all our communities, about the value of public housing and the value of responsible homeownership. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Innovative Solutions To Housing Concerns

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1016

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Devolution Of Housing Resources To The Community Level

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1016

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in case the Members on the other side hadn't noticed yet, we are having a cleaning day today on housing.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I would like to read into the record the mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation. The mandate of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is to assist communities to assume the role of providing housing to their residents and to sustain northern economic development. This is achieved by providing leadership and support to communities in the areas of technical research and services, financial support, information sharing, training, as well as economic development initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, I don't know when the last time this mandate or this vision statement for the Housing Corporation was visited, but I think it needs to be looked at. I think that these things that are listed here, you could reasonably say are at cross purposes with each other. We are talking about a social program to provide people with accommodation and we are also talking about ways of making money and promoting economic development. There may be some overlap, but I do think that this mandate is perhaps somewhat deceiving.

It brings out a point though with respect to the reference to assisting communities to assume. I think everyone knows that in the Northwest Territories we have very diverse communities with very diverse lifestyles. When I say diverse communities, some are remote, some are on road systems, some have very traditional lifestyles and some not. Some have market properties available on a rental basis, some do not, where primarily the landlord is the NWT Housing Corporation. So, Mr.

Speaker, I think we need to look at the mandate, we do need to provide communities with the opportunity to develop policies and programs which are tailored to the residents of that community. I don't think that there is a one-size-fits-all in terms of programming, and I would like to see more responsibility devolve to the communities so that we can get maximum use of our resource in this area to meet the needs of the people. I could say a lot more about housing, Mr. Speaker, but this is a short opportunity. I look forward to asking the Minister some questions later today. Thank you.

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Devolution Of Housing Resources To The Community Level

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1016

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee

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Need For Senior Housing In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1016

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak today about the needs for senior housing in Yellowknife, and the need for the Department of Health and Social Services and the NWT Housing Corporation to partner strongly in meeting the objectives of the YACCS in Yellowknife who's excellent work in this area.

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Need For Senior Housing In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1016

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Need For Senior Housing In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1016

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, a 2002 feasibility and market research study commissioned by the YACCS has shown very clearly that there is huge need for senior housing in Yellowknife, because there are a lot more people now retiring in Yellowknife and that's a good thing and the government should welcome that and accommodate essential needs of seniors.

Mr. Speaker, I could tell you that there are Avens independent courts in the middle of Yellowknife, there are 24 units and last year there was a zero turnover rate in that 24-unit complex. This year there was one, and there is a waiting list of 10. Clearly, at one a year with a waiting list of 10, that would take 10 years, and it is unreasonable for government to expect that these seniors should sit around and wait for these units to become available.

One of the ideas that YACCS has, it has worked out a feasibility plan to build a senior housing condominium in the space that they have available there. They own the land, they have a financial plan, they have a physical plan and they are gathering interest from the seniors who would want to live there. It really requires the help of the Housing Corporation to make this happen and I would urge the government to engage in this process in a very aggressive way.

Mr. Speaker, the second way we could deal with the housing shortage for seniors is to build a dementia facility in Yellowknife. There are very strong studies done by YACCS that show a huge need, not only in the city of Yellowknife, but in surrounding areas. It has been proven, care providers have known for years that the needs of seniors are changing and those with dementia require specialized facilities and specialized programming. The Avens Manor, as it exists and it was meant to work,

cannot cater to that. They have a program in place, they have a plan in place, they have a design, they have everything in line. All they need is some support from the Department of Health and Social Services, which the Minister has not done so far and I urge him to do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Need For Senior Housing In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1017

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Need For Senior Housing In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1017

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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NWT Housing Corporation Rent Scale Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1017

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to use my Member's statement today to talk about the NWT Housing Corporation's rent scale policy. Mr. Speaker, the rent scale policy of the NWT Housing Corporation is geared solely on income and has remained unchanged since its first implementation 30 years ago. There have been numerous consultation processes done by the Housing Corporation with local housing organizations, public housing clients, and the public in general on how the rent scale policy can be adjusted or changed to be more in harmony with the needs of public housing clients.

Mr. Speaker, talk of change in the rent scale has gone on for too long. It is time for the Housing Corporation to start the ball rolling towards a system of public housing rental rates which reflect and assist persons in public housing to move away from public housing units and into more independent housing. The current system, as everyone is aware, is a system which encourages people to remain in public housing, encourages people to not go out and look for a job and, sadly, encourages people to not pay rent at all.

This government has been dragging its feet on the issue for too long and it's time to roll out a new policy which has been developed, and show persons in public housing and the public and the people in the NWT that the Housing Corporation is not all talk, but does have a plan to moving forward with harmonizing needs with resources. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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NWT Housing Corporation Rent Scale Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1017

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Oral Question 254-15(3): Aurora College Lease In Northern United Place

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1017

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Hawkins on October 19, 2004, regarding the Aurora College lease in Northern United Place.

The lease at Northern United Place is administered by Aurora College in Fort Smith. I have been advised that the lease expires on August 31, 2007, and has two five-year renewal options.

My department has been working with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to review various accommodation options for Aurora College. The discussions are very preliminary and no decisions have yet been made. Thank you.

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Return To Oral Question 254-15(3): Aurora College Lease In Northern United Place

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1017

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1017

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize a former Member of this House, the former Member for Mackenzie Delta and now the chief for the Inuvik Band Council, Mr. Richard Nerysoo.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1017

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1017

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize Mr. Richard Nerysoo, a former classmate of mine from years ago. It's good to see him up there. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1017

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I'll take this opportunity to welcome any of our guests who we have visiting with us in the gallery today who haven't been recognized. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1017

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To follow up on the theme today, my questions are directed to Mr. Krutko , the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . I was looking at the business plan for the corporation and reflecting on the diminishing funding levels from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which today amount to in the order of $33 million a year. These will sunset. My question, Mr. Speaker, is what lobbying efforts are underway now to restore federal investment in public housing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1017

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , the Honourable Mr. Krutko .

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Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1017

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to thank the Member for that question. Presently we are in dialogue and talks with the people from the AFN -- Billy Erasmus -- with regards to aboriginal housing in Canada. Like I noted earlier, I had a meeting with the federal Minister in Vancouver a number of weeks ago and I believe that the national attention that is on housing and

homelessness is out there. I think because of that we, in the North, also have to realize that with these declining funds from CMHC, we have to find new ways of facing our challenges.

We are working with other agencies out there, especially the people in the First Nations community, AFN. We're also scheduled to meet with the federal Minister at the First Ministers' meeting at the end of November. That is the process right now that we're using to dialogue with other organizations. Thank you.

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Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So we really have nothing more than another meeting scheduled among Ministers. If the Minister would like to expand on anything there, I'd welcome it at some point, but I'd like to know what other options is our Housing Corporation looking at to ensure that we will continue to have adequate investment in our housing infrastructure, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now, as a corporation, we are in the process of reviewing the mandate of this corporation. We are taking a look at the program services we do deliver. Also, we are looking at a 10-year plan to look forward on exactly where we go as a corporation and to take on the challenges that we're facing. We have to find more unique ways of delivering housing in the Northwest Territories, especially with the number of houses that are going to be required. I know a couple of Members touched on the whole area of selling off public housing.

That's one area we're looking at and, in order to achieve that, to sell off public housing and replacing them with multi-units where we have six or seven units instead of the high cost to operate or maintain a single dwelling. I think those are the types of things we're looking at doing and moving toward. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the 2004-06 business plan outlines a goal to build between 750 and 800 units in the NWT over the next five years. This is under the affordable housing strategy. Now, this goal is about 18 months old. It's the most recent one that I could find that's before the public, Mr. Speaker, and I'd like to ask if these targets, 750 to 800 units over the next five years, are still in place. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, that is one of the goals we are trying to meet but, based on the budget restraints we do have, in order to meet those goals there are certain things that have to happen. In order to do that we have to sell off units by way of almost 50 units a year to individuals who are either living in those units or to the private sector and replace those units with multi-plex units -- like I mentioned, the six-plex or eight-plex units -- to ensure that we're able to fill that gap in order to meet that.

The key to this is we have to change the way we do business, but to meet that goal we have to implement the 10-year plan that we have put forward and follow that plan to meet that goal at the end of the day.

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Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, so there seems to be some momentum and some innovation here. The Minister has mentioned something about a 10-year plan. Is this something that has been put before the public or the Assembly and could the Minister tell us more about this initiative? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the 10-year plan, it has been presented to committee. I have presented a briefing to committee on the 10-year plan and some of the initiatives that we're looking at doing. Also, the whole idea of selling off these units is one of the ideas in the plan; replacing that with the revenue we get. At the present time, we receive almost $70 million a year from the Government of the Northwest Territories. That's about seven percent of the total budget of this government.

In order to meet that goal, we will have to lobby my colleagues on this side of the House to put more money into housing to ensure that we're able to meet that goal. Right now, seven percent of the $70 million comes forward by way of a grant program through the Government of the Northwest Territories with regard to our operational costs for the Housing Corporation. In order to achieve that, we have to increase it.

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Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1018

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. My question today is for the Minister of the Housing Corporation . One of the things that I've been addressing ever since I've been elected was in Fort Liard we had a huge mould problem and I was trying to get the government to come up with some kind of mould action plan. I was just wondering if the Minister can tell me to date what has occurred with respect to this. Thank you.

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Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , the Honourable Mr. Krutko .

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Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are taking this issue very seriously. Mould is a very big health problem that we see and it does have direct effects. I know this is more than just a housing problem; it's also a health problem. We have hired an environmental company to look at the mould problem in the Fort Liard area and also look at a way that we can deal with that problem. We have put forward a report that we are looking at dealing with this problem with regard to Fort Liard.

There is presently someone who has been hired who is doing a thorough review by way of a report to look at those units in Fort Liard and come forward with recommendations on how we're going to replace that. We're looking at coming forward during the March budget to ensure money is in the budget to deal with this problem next year. Thank you.

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Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just wondering if the Minister can assure at least the residents of Fort Liard that, yes, we are addressing the problem. I think environmental inspection is key, as well as -- I don't know if I have the right Minister for this -- a lot of it is health. It's becoming more and more of a health issue, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Minister can speak to whether that concern will be addressed, as well; like immediately. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have raised this with my colleagues on this side of the House to make them aware that the mould problem is a health problem and I think with the dollars that we do get from Ottawa with regard to health, this has to be considered as a health issue where it's having an effect on people's breathing problems, asthma and also probably with regard to the whole family. When you have overcrowding and mould, that's a bad mix. I think it is definitely a housing problem. Also we have to work with the other colleagues on this side, especially the Minister of Health and Social Services .

I have spoken with him on this and we are working in conjunction to ensure that we deal with this problem as a health issue, as well.

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Further Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess another key component of constructing the houses is that there have to be adequate inspectors there, and that's one of the things that occurred out of Fort Liard this summer. Repairs were happening, construction was happening, but the constituents are telling me they don't see adequate inspectors coming to look at these homes to assure us and give us the confidence that the homes are being constructed and renovated to an acceptable standard. Just the presence of those inspectors alone will help the constituents there, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister inform me of the inspection program that goes along with house construction?

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Supplementary To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Well, like I said, Mr. Speaker, we have hired someone to look at this problem and also make recommendations back to us. One of the problems that has been pinpointed to us is the flood that happened in Fort Liard a number of years ago, during which these units were flooded. Because of that, the basements underneath these units were flooded with water, which got into the structure and that is one of the things we're focusing on. I know I heard a couple of other concerns about people's basements flooding and whatnot. Again, moisture can cause mould.

I think it's important to try to avoid those things in our construction habits. We are looking at bringing forward and reviewing a report from the consultant and making sure that we find recommendations to go forward on resolving this problem. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just wondering if the Minister can, for the record, tell me when the report will be completed. He mentioned it a couple of times during this question period, so I'll be looking for an affirmed date of completion of that report and perhaps some costs associated with it. That would be of particular interest to myself and to the communities. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I hope to have the report concluded before we go to Fort Liard. We are scheduled to go to Fort Liard the 4th and 5th of November. So at that time when we have our public meeting, we should be able to inform the residents in Fort Liard exactly how we're going to deal with this problem and, at that time, present them with aspects of that report. So we should have that report and have a briefing for the community at that public meeting. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Question 316-15(3): Housing Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1019

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is in line with all the other Members here on theme day for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Mr. Speaker, I'm looking for a commitment from this Minister. Will this Minister develop a policy that

will meet the existing standards based on accessible living for people with disabilities in social housing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , the Honourable Mr. Krutko .

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Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know the Member raised this issue in the House before. We have completed our phase two report with regard to our needs survey. On page 7 of that report, it identifies that we do have 194 dwellings which have been modified for people with disabilities. So we do have that stock in house. Also, I'd just like to inform the Member that we also have programs for people in the private sector who can apply for a grant of up to $25,000 to renovate their units to make them accessible for people with disabilities. Thank you.

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Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the Minister is saying about 194 people in our housing. Mr. Speaker, what I'm looking for is a firm commitment on national guidelines, something that is clear cut. Can the Minister commit today that his department will create a policy, be it a booklet or whatever, on national standards and this can be applied to all of our social housing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, at this time I can't commit to that because I'm not aware of exactly what standard you're talking about. I don't believe that we do have programs and services to assist people with disabilities and ensure that we make them one of our high priorities when they come forward to access public housing. I cannot commit for the private sector or commit for any other agency that's out there until we know exactly what the cost is of implementing this policy. I'm not aware of that policy, so I'll have to look into it. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

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Supplementary To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Again, Mr. Speaker, that request is a handful in regard to being able to accomplish all those goals in the short time that you are requesting, but I think it is something that I will definitely promise the Member that I will look into and see exactly where we are with a policy for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and exactly what the cost to implement such a policy would be.

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Further Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll say thank you, Mr. Minister, for that commitment. Mr. Speaker, I'll ask for one more commitment from the Minister responsible for Housing in which he did refer to private industry being able to access a pot of funds or a pot of money in order to allow social housing to happen in private buildings. Will he commit to investigate the possibility of applying that policy to anyone who accesses this funding to have those folks in their buildings? Will he commit to seeing that that policy can apply to them as well as in the private industry? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regard to the Member's question, I do not know. We can't dictate to the private sector how they run their business. Again, we are a segment of the corporation in the Government of the Northwest Territories to provide social housing in the Northwest Territories, but when you start dictating to the private sector in regard to how they can run their business, we have to ensure that we are following national building guidelines by ensuring that they are able to operate their business without us totally interfering in how they do that. So, again, I will look into it and report back to the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Question 317-15(3): Housing Policy For Disabled Persons

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is also to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Mr. Speaker, I understand that in the year 2038 the federal government is hoping to get out of the housing business. In saying that, Mr. Speaker, the recent surveys done by the Housing Corporation indicate that 35 percent of houses in the Sahtu are in core need. Can the Minister tell the House and tell the people in the Sahtu what plans are in place to decrease the number from 35 to an acceptable number that would be sufficient to the Sahtu people? Thank you.

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Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1020

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Krutko .

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Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe there are several ways that we can work with the communities and with the Sahtu region. That's to devolve more authority to those communities through universal partnership agreements and also ensuring that the needs surveys that we develop are able to meet the most needs of the communities that are out there. Definitely the Sahtu is one of them. I think once we put forward our business plans for next year, we will be focusing on those needs surveys to ensure that we are able to accommodate the communities that are in most critical need. So we are working with communities and also developing our business plans coming forward next year.

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Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again I want to ask request the Minister what type of plans does his department have in terms of working with the federal government to ensure that maybe the federal government does need to phase out the funding for housing here, similar to what the government has looked at with the First Ministers' health funding or the equalization payments? Surely this government can question the federal government in terms of looking at housing as a crucial and essential need for the Northwest Territories.

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

An Hon. Member

Surely, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is important that we continue the dialogue from the first meeting held with the federal Minister. All the issues we raise here in the House he is aware of. He comes from a part of northern Ontario where they have a lot of housing issues; I think also because of being a former co-chair of the Liberal Caucus committee who looked at housing back in the '70s, along with the chair at the time who was Mr. Paul Martin. So because Paul Martin is now the Prime Minister of Canada and Mr.

Fontana is now the Minister of Housing , hopefully the recommendations they put forward in that report, which talks about social housing programs, they'll be open to bringing forward. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the previous Minister of the Housing Corporation did a tour of the Sahtu region, and one of the issues that came up for the people was the block housing and the ways that we could cut down costs. But it also makes sense to use our own resources and also use the opportunity to provide training for our people. Would the Minister commit to this House and to the people of the Sahtu that the previous commitments made by the Minister in terms of providing a package for log housing that could be suitable and affordable for people in the Sahtu region? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now there is a program that we offer through our housing programs. It's basically put forward for the individual or the client to go out of their way to get their logs, bring their logs into the community, get it on the site, and then the government will allow them the resources to purchase the material to construct the unit. But it is up to the individual to have sweat equity going into this program. So they have to go out of their way to ensure they get the logs, they peel them, they bring them onto the site, and then the government will implement that program. So there is a program to do that already in place. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. I want to take this a little step further. Would the Minister work with the Minister of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment in devising a training program that would take out some of the young people to do a training program in terms of log building, putting a house together that would cut down costs and look at that as being a pilot project in the Sahtu region? So then we could have some long-term viability for the people in our region and the rest of the communities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, as the Minister, am definitely open to proposals from any community if there are projects out there that they feel would really make a difference to the housing challenges they face in the communities. I'm willing to look at that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1021

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. The people in the Sahtu would be very happy to do a proposal. Would the Minister commit to a meeting with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment within this fiscal year to put out a proposal that would be beneficial to our people? We need to hear from the government saying this is what we can do, this is the amount of dollars that we commit to this

pilot project. Would the Minister give a commitment? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Definitely I can't commit for the Minister of Education , but I definitely will suggest that we sit down and talk about this. He's heard the questions, so hopefully we can consider finding ways to implement such a program. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Health and Social Services and it's further to my Member's statement. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is very clear that the YACCS, which stands for Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors, have done all the work. They have the vision in place, they have plans in place, they have a plan for the Aven Manor, they have a plan for Aven seniors' independent courts and their plan is like a domino or puzzle.

One has to work in order for the rest of the pieces to fit, and they have a long-term plan to have seniors' housing in the form of condominiums in the land that they have available in the same area of the manor and the courts. But their plan includes a dementia facility so that the people who need to go in there can do that, and so they can move on to the condominium idea. Mr. Speaker, I know that the Minister is well aware of this proposal, and last we heard from him he had provided a deposit or down payment or initial money for them to look into this.

Now they have submitted a full proposal and I would like to know where the Minister stands on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I met a number of months ago now with YACCS and I met with the Social Programs committee on this issue. I believe that I have also written to the Yellowknife MLAs who are supporting this project. Basically what is currently happening is we are in the process of completing a report that's due in November. It's going to look at facility usage across the Northwest Territories in terms of acute care beds and long-term care beds and the issue of dementia and how it impacts not only Yellowknife, but Hay River, Inuvik, Fort Smith and Simpson, all the places that have facilities.

As I indicated to the executive of YACCS, the Yellowknife proposal that has been done is going to be part of those deliberations. That will be part of the report that I will be bringing back to Cabinet and to the Social Programs committee that will lay out how we are going to reprofile some of the resources as they relate to a surplus of acute care beds, as well as how we are proposing to move ahead to deal with the issue of dementia and dealing with the cognitively impaired across the Northwest Territories, including Yellowknife. Thank you.

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This has been in the books for a very long time and I guess if the study is going to be done at the end of November, we have to wait for this. But I'm concerned that the Minister has not indicated enough commitment to seeing the results of the study being implemented. Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister is well aware that YACCS is not looking for capital funding, it's not looking for a handout, it's only looking for the commitment from the government to pay for the operating costs that the government would otherwise have to do anyway. So would the Minister, if there is a need found in this study, commit to providing operating funds to YACCS? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to point out that the government has been very committed to working with YACCS. The Department of Health and Social Services has given them money to do their studies. As a government we've turned over land worth $1.6 million to them to assist in their planning, and at this point it's part of the mix when it comes to the final report that's going to be coming out in November. There is a lot of money at stake that's being requested.

The YACCS facility is a multi-million dollar proposal with the territorial government being the sole funding agency that would pay the capital costs through the O and M budget, basically paying the lease costs or the mortgage costs through monthly payments. So the reality is we are going to be the sole funding agent. There is money on the table. We also have to factor in other needs in Hay River, Fort Smith, Inuvik, Fort Simpson as well as Yellowknife, and we have to come up with a plan that's comprehensive for all territorial residents and we will come forward with that. Thank you.

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Further Return To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1022

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister is only partially correct. He is correct and I give him credit and I give the government credit in saying that the YK Health and Department of Health and Social Services has given extra money to Aven Manor so that they could take care of seniors with dementia, which I would argue is their job, but thank you very much for giving that money.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I would also say that YACCS is not looking for capital funding. YACCS is proposing that they will go out to the private market to borrow the money to build this facility, as long as the government commits to giving them money to take care of these seniors. I think that's a different thing, Mr. Speaker. These seniors with dementia are in private homes...

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

What is your question, Ms. Lee ?

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know if he could give support in principle that if the need is found in this study, that he would look positively at giving operational funding that he would have to spend as the Minister of Health anyway for seniors. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the reality is at the end of the day that the territorial government will be the sole funding agent for any development that goes on with dementia units, including the Yellowknife one. The reality is what they are looking at is a different variation, but the fundamental dollar requests come to the department, come to the government, and we are going to guarantee and through the O and M costs pay the mortgage costs for whatever construction takes place. So the reality is we're going to work with YACCS.

It's going to be in the plan, but when the YACCS borrow the money what we are doing is guaranteeing repayment and we're going to give them the repayments through the O and M. So it's clear.

We may not call it capital, but it's being funded through the territorial government and I have to make a case to my colleagues and this Legislature that that project, along with many others, deserves to be given consideration. Thank you.

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final and third supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must say I don't really like the general approach of all the Ministers. For some reason doing something for Yellowknife takes away from doing things for other communities, and I don't accept that. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the government has already set a precedent. We're building a bridge, the government is funding it, but there are other people who are benefiting from it and the government is bridging with a private partner. Why can we not do that for seniors?

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Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

I think that's a question, Ms. Lee . I'll let the Minister answer that.

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Further Return To Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with the bridge it is my understanding it is a P3 project that's going to generate revenue through tolls. With this facility we are talking about building a facility that's going to address a very specific need. It's not a revenue-generating item. It's one of providing a needed service not only in Yellowknife, but across the Northwest Territories. I'd like to remind the Member that, yes, she speaks as a Member for Yellowknife, but we are a government for all people of the Northwest Territories and it's an issue that is a problem across the Northwest Territories and we have to have a territorial plan. Thank you.

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Question 319-15(3): Yaccs Proposal For Facility Use

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation . Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement I outlined the mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation. I was just wondering if the Minister could, just in rough percentages, tell us how much of the mandate in the resources and energy of this corporation is devoted to social housing needs versus these other things such as economic development initiatives, research, training, these other things. Thank you.

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we received roughly $35 million from CMHC for social housing. As was mentioned in the House, those dollars are declining over the next 30 years. We are seeing it basically decline to zero. So because of that, we are having to refocus our efforts through looking at our mandate, but also instituting our business plans and working with communities through partnership agreements.

I believe at the end of the day the people that make the difference are people in communities at the frontline through the local housing authorities, those organizations to devolve these authorities from the pot to ensure that those program responsibilities will be delivered to the client, which in most cases are in the communities. So we are looking at changing the mandate, coming forward with a 10-year plan and also realizing we have a major decline in cash flow, especially from the federal government through the CMHC funding, which again is $35 million which will decline over the next number of years.

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister know just approximately a ballpark figure as to what is spent by the NWT Housing Corporation on administrative overhead of headquarters? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1023

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have that information presently at hand. I believe it is in the audit report that I tabled in the House

earlier this week, but I will definitely get that information for the Member.

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1024

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1024

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the reason why I ask about how the mandate is divided and how much is spent on administrative overhead versus program delivery is because I believe that there are a lot of things that could be done that may seem smaller scale than building a lot of new housing units. I noticed, since I travel in the communities, that there are a lot of boarded up, vacant housing units in all of our communities, particularly in the smaller communities. I would like to know if the Minister has an idea of what kind of inventory of vacant units the NWT Housing Corporation has across the North. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1024

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Krutko .

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1024

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Again, Mr. Speaker, because we do have units that we maintain every other year, we put aside 10 to 12 units in a community so that we can renovate them over a period of time. We move our clients to different units. Because of the number of turnover that we have because of our maintenance programs, that number is inconsistent, so I can't give the Member that information because it is a moving number. We do take units off of our system in order to meet our maintenance program. So because of that, those vacancies may not be...Again, I will make an attempt to get that information to the Member.

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Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1024

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1024

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am thinking about more units I have seen in the communities that are boarded up. They look like no one has lived in them for quite some time, but they still may have some salvage value. The NWT Housing Corporation, if in fact they own them, might do well to turn those over to band councils, community corporations, a private developer, somebody who would want to put these units back into circulation in the communities so that there are more housing options available to those residents. Would the Minister commit to undertake an inventory of units that are not vacant because of maintenance, but are vacant because, essentially, they are out of