Debates of Nov. 20th, 1992

This is page numbers 33 - 49 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was capital .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Kitikmeot Concerns With Establishment Of Nunavut

N.w.t.p.c. Operator For Lake Harbour

"working Toward A Common Future"

Opening Of Wrigley School

Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Hire North Policy

Date Of Dr. Covert's Appointment

Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Update On Divisional Boards' Funding

Round Table On Economy And Environment

Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Policy On Food Vouchers

Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Employee Training For Kiosk

Request Apology From Military Personnel

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Committee Report 1-12(3): Standing Committee On Finance, Report On The Review Of The 1993-94 Capital Estimates

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94

Bill 5:

An Act To Amend The Social Assistance Act

Bill 4:

An Act To Amend The Public Trustee Act

Bill 2:

An Act To Amend The Condominium Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94 And Committee Report 1-12(3): Review Of The 1993-94 Capital Estimates

To Adopt Recommendation No. 1

To Adopt Recommendation No. 2

To Adopt Recommendation No. 3

To Adopt Recommendation No. 4

To Adopt Recommendation No. 5

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Ningark , Hon. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Mr. Todd , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 33

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good morning. Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Bernhardt .

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Kitikmeot Concerns With Establishment Of Nunavut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 33

Ernie Bernhardt

Kitikmeot

However, I think there are a number of points which should be made right from the start about Kitikmeot concerns with the establishment of Nunavut. First, it is important to be clear that historically the people of the Kitikmeot have strong economic ties with Yellowknife, Inuvik and Nunakput communities. Even as Nunavut evolves we will want to see these long standing relationships remain in place. Secondly, in planning for a Nunavut government the interests of the Kitikmeot communities must be given equal priority with those of our Keewatin and Baffin neighbours.

For too long the Kitikmeot has been denied its fair share of government infrastructure within the existing Northwest Territories. The future Nunavut leadership should realize right now that we will not tolerate the same treatment by the new government following division.

Finally, I want to send a clear message to T.F.N. and both the federal and territorial governments. In planning for the establishment of Nunavut, commission appointments and board developments must be made in a clear and honest fashion with appropriate representation from the grassroots of our communities, rather than the political back rooms. We have struggled too long with this sort of favouritism and closed door decision-making which has been typical of this government. We will not accept it in the process which leads to Nunavut.

I hope that T.F.N. and those who will be working on the Nunavut implementation recognize this clearly. We do not want to see one "old boys" network replaced with another. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause.

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Kitikmeot Concerns With Establishment Of Nunavut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 33

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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N.w.t.p.c. Operator For Lake Harbour

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 33

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This concern has been ongoing for quite some time. Although the Minister of the N.W.T. Power Corporation is not present it will also be of interest to the Minister of Education . When the N.W.T. Power Corporation employee from Lake Harbour has to go out on holidays he is not given a replacement. I think that there should be a local person trained or educated to run the Power Corporation when the permanent employee is on holidays. This individual should be trained on a ongoing basis. When you are in the smaller communities employment is hard to come by.

For this reason, perhaps the Minister of Education and the Minister responsible for the N.W.T. Power Corporation could work together to help an individual be trained to replace the permanent staff member in Lake Harbour when that person is out of the community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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N.w.t.p.c. Operator For Lake Harbour

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 33

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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"working Toward A Common Future"

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 33

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, after reviewing yesterday's unedited Hansard I am somewhat disappointed, and am still trying to figure out why the Minister of Aboriginal Rights and Constitutional Development placed forth his motion in this House. Mr. Speaker, I know I was one of the Members who continually pressed the Minister in September to discuss the document "Working Towards a Common Future," which is better known as the "Bourque Commission." Mr.

Speaker, I pressed the Minister in September because I was concerned that the national referendum vote was coming up, but more importantly I was concerned because I knew that the eastern people were going to vote on their land claim regarding Nunavut and we did not have anything discussed or developed for the west.

Mr. Speaker, September was the most critical time to discuss this motion, not now. Now, Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Minister is a day late and probably a dollar short to find what he wants to do. Mr. Speaker, I do not want the native organizations to believe that voting against the Minister's motion is not wanting to hear their concerns. I strongly believe we need something for the west. Mr. Speaker, it was my understanding that the Western Caucus agreed to meet with the native leaders and develop a work plan before we bring it into this House for further discussion.

I would urge the Minister to follow through with the Western Caucus agreement and develop a plan among us before we bring this issue in the House. Thank you.

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"working Toward A Common Future"

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 33

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Opening Of Wrigley School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. After the Legislative Assembly meets today I will be going to Fort Wrigley with the Minister of Education and his colleagues. They have just finished constructing the school so we are going to be opening it. These small schools in the communities are very important. They need new schools in order to be taught. In this way they can really benefit from it. The former M.L.A. for Nahendeh, Nick Sibbeston, was party to the opening of this school in Wrigley. Thank you.

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Opening Of Wrigley School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Zoe .

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Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during the Rae Band Council meeting in the early part of October, a report was tabled which raised a very serious matter with respect to diamond prospecting and the Bathurst caribou herd.

Mr. Speaker, a report from an anonymous informant was given to the Rae band office recently which informed us that while this particular individual was working for a diamond prospecting company this past summer he witnessed a number of very disturbing incidents involving helicopters and the Bathurst caribou herd. Mr. Speaker, this individual reported that helicopters were literally all over the barrenland area where the Bathurst caribou herd fed in the summer. Helicopters were up and down and hovering at low heights over the caribou herds day in and day out, all summer long.

Mr. Speaker, the caribou became very spooked and frightened and would run in all directions stumbling, falling and even breaking their legs as they got caught in the rocky areas of the land. Mr. Speaker, my informant reported that many more caribou were seen with broken legs throughout the summer. These animals were unable to keep up with their herd and developed serious infections in their broken legs. Another impact observed, Mr. Speaker, was that these caribou were unable to feed properly since they were being scattered from their feeding grounds by helicopters moving up and down while staking claim.

Mr. Speaker, there has been considerable concern in the region among traditional hunters regarding the lack of fat on the caribou this year. They are very skinny and they have little fat on them this year. The informant indicated that the reason for this could be that they were not properly allowed to feed this past summer because of the disturbances by the helicopters. The greater concern is that due to lack of fat on the herd this year they will be unable to sustain themselves throughout the winter. This could cause a serious impact on the survival of the herd if a massive loss of caribou were to occur.

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Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Zoe , your allotted time has lapsed.

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Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

Henry Zoe

North Slave

I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude.

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Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please proceed, Mr. Zoe .

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Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib people are not opposed to diamond exploration and staking on their land. However, if the price we must pay is to lose one of our most important resources, caribou, then we would choose to preserve our caribou and leave the diamonds in the ground. Mr. Speaker, during question period I will be questioning the Minister of Renewable Resources in this regard. Thank you.

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Diamond Prospecting And The Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 34

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Return To Question 1-12(3): Social Assistance Payments

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 34

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on November 18, 1992 on social assistance payments, cash versus vouchers. The payment of social assistance partially in cash and the rest in vouchers is a part of our policy options. It is not a general policy of the government throughout the territories. Social assistance may be paid by cheque to: the recipient or a dependent, as directed by the recipient; a vendor or supplier and the recipient as joint payees; a vendor or supplier on behalf of the recipient; or, a trustee.

Assistance may also be paid on behalf of the recipient by travel warrant, accommodation warrant or cheque requisition. Social workers are required to discuss the method and frequency of payment with the clients who are experiencing budgetary difficulties in managing their assistance. A decision is made on the preference of the client and the ability of the client to manage his or her money.

In many communities where the payments are made only to the supplier, this has been the request of the town or hamlet council. The reason cited most often by the local officials is the client's misuse of social assistance funds for things like gambling and alcohol. It is the policy of the department to support the request of the local officials in issuing social assistance payments.

In the case raised by the Member for Natilikmiot , in relation to Gjoa Haven and Pelly Bay, this method is being used throughout the Kitikmeot region at the request of the Kitikmeot Regional Council. In March, 1992, the Kitikmeot Regional Council passed a motion which came from Spence Bay. The concern raised was that social assistance was being used for gambling or alcohol and requested that the department change to a voucher system.

Although a concern was later raised by the Mayor of Pelly Bay, in June, that clients did not have sufficient flexibility to pay for some needs, the decision to continue the method was reaffirmed in the July meeting of the Kitikmeot Regional Council. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 1-12(3): Social Assistance Payments

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 34

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Zoe .

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Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources . Could the Minister of Renewable Resources tell me why his office has not responded to a letter sent a month ago to the Minister's office by the Dogrib Rae Band requesting that the Minister investigate disturbing events involving diamond exploration helicopters and the Bathurst Caribou Herd, outlined earlier in my Members' Statement.

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Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that my department is doing something about this. As to what they are doing, I could get back to the Member as soon as I can. Thank you.

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Return To Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I am quite appalled with the Minister and the way he is handling this disturbing concern, or this serious concern that has been submitted to his office, in writing. The Rae band, a month ago, submitted these disturbing events in writing to the Minister's office and, to this date, have not even received acknowledgement that the Minister is looking into it. That is what I am disturbed about. Why has the Minister not responded, even acknowledging the concern of the Rae band? I do not know why he has not done that yet. Could the Minister tell me why he has not even acknowledged the letter?

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Supplementary To Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure why my office has not acknowledged the letter, but we are aware of this letter and we are doing something about it. I will check into it as soon as the question period is over and get back to the Member with the detailed information. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Question 22-12(3): Response To Letter Re Bathurst Caribou Herd

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . For quite a while now they have had a concern which they had asked to be set on the priority list of the capital budget. I wonder if anything has been done, to date, about the request for a big boat in Sanikiluaq for the purpose of search and rescue. I have brought this up in the House previously. They have been pushing for a big boat through the capital budget and they have requested it be put on the priority list.

Will he be able to respond to me during this session on this request for a boat and how soon it could be purchased? This question is not new and this question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the problem. There has been research done in this particular area. There have been a number of large vessels in Sanikiluaq over previous years. When it comes down to search and rescue, though, that falls under the J.E.T. Program which is administered by Municipal and Community Affairs.

My suggestion to the Member, through you, Mr. Speaker, would be if you will allow myself and the Minister of M.A.C.A. to get together to get some indication from the community exactly what the use of the boat would be, then we can make a judgement on whose responsibility it would be and I will endeavour to do that, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions, supplementary, Mr. Pudlat .

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Supplementary To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This boat would be a multi-purpose boat. I have listed some of the things the boat would be used for and maybe you could get together and determine which department would be responsible for this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, one of the problems that we get into is if it is a multi-purpose vessel, if it is going to be used for fishing and search and rescue, then it is unlikely that we would be able to access funds from the federal government with regard to search and rescue because those vessels have to meet a criteria to being able to withstand sea conditions and being seaworthy themselves. It is difficult and we will have to determine what priority the community places on either a fishing vessel, a resupply vessel or a search and rescue vessel and we will take it from there.

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Further Return To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Bernhardt .

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Question 24-12(3): Hire North Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 35

Ernie Bernhardt

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On June 29, 1992, this House passed a motion to give direction to the Minister of Personnel with respect to the development of a Hire North Policy. In September, the Minister responded with a statement to the effect that the government is doing all it can. If you look at the government's record within the regions, it is

clear that the government is not doing enough. In the Kitikmeot aboriginal people form 90 per cent of the population yet hold only 21 per cent of the Government of the N.W.T. management positions in the region.

My question is for the Minister of Personnel . Can the Minister advise the House what action he is prepared to take to address the serious inequities of aboriginal employment, particularly in management positions in regions outside of Yellowknife?

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Question 24-12(3): Hire North Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 24-12(3): Hire North Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, when I made the statement during the last session we had taken some care to point out that given the education levels of not only aboriginal people but northern people, that it is virtually impossible to make any substantive progress in filling many of the senior management jobs with the current available, trained, educated northern people of the Northwest Territories.

The focus has to be on making sure that the education system brings out more trained, educated people who we can hire so that they can get the experience to do some of the work. No one, especially aboriginal people, would be interested in being hired just as token aboriginal people. They want also to have the comfort of knowing they have a very good chance of succeeding in their jobs, that they have the experience and the management capabilities to carry out the work. The public, the aboriginal people themselves, who are being served will also demand the very same satisfaction.

They want to know that the services and the level of competence in the people hired to serve them is maintained. Thank you.

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Question 24-12(3): Hire North Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 25-12(3): Date Of Dr. Covert's Appointment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health . Yesterday I tabled in this House a letter from the Minister of Health to Dr. Covert, and I would like clarification regarding this letter. Mr. Speaker, as of Wednesday, November 18, 1992 I questioned the Minister of Health in this House. According to unedited Hansard he indicated that Dr. Covert was not appointed recently, he was appointed years ago for a period of time as the Chair of the Board of Inquiry set up under the Medical Profession Act and he still occupies that office.

Reviewing the act it indicates that the Minister may appoint for a term not exceeding two years. In his remark to me he said "for some years." I would like the Minister of Health to clarify for this House the statement which he made in his letter to Dr. Covert indicating that his appointment was effective September 2, and his statements he made in this House saying the appointment was in effect for some years. Thank you.

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Question 25-12(3): Date Of Dr. Covert's Appointment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson .

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Question 25-12(3): Date Of Dr. Covert's Appointment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify the situation. I am not sure if I described it accurately earlier in this House. Mr. Speaker, Dr. Covert was President of the Board of Inquiry for two years up until this fall, then his appointment would have lapsed but he was reappointed by me at that time. I think the Member has tabled the letter which reappointed him.

Around this time a matter was brought before the Board of Inquiry which required a hearing. It all happened more or less at the same time. His appointment lapsed, he was reappointed and a matter was put to the board for hearing, namely the matter in Fort Smith. This is how it happened, Mr. Speaker. I hope this clarifies the course of events for the Member. Thank you.

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Question 25-12(3): Date Of Dr. Covert's Appointment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Zoe .

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Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Finance . On June 25 the Standing Committee on Public Accounts reported to the Assembly and recommended that the Minister of Finance should take action to strengthen the roles of the deputy minister and the comptroller general with respect to fiscal management. The standing committee also recommended that these two offices should be made more independent of each other, Mr. Speaker.

When I asked him for a status report on September 16 I was concerned about the lack of progress that had been made in complying with this recommendation, Mr. Speaker. The Minister stated that several restructuring proposals were under consideration but had not been given review by the Government Leader or Cabinet. Can the Minister advise this House today what action he has taken to comply with the standing committee recommendation that was passed in the House?

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Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 36

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the plan is in place, it is being reviewed by Madam Premier . There are quite a substantial number of changes proposed in this plan. My understanding now is that it will go to Cabinet for discussion and then it will go to Mr. Koe 's committee for comment by Mr. Koe , Mr. Antoine and Mr. Ningark before being proceeded with further.

Mr. Speaker, if it seems we are moving a little slow in this area. The people we have in the central agencies at the present time are really plugged up with the consolidation of Health and Social Services and a number of other issues which are taking place in departments. We are trying not to overload the system. It is our intention to comply with the wishes of Mr. Zoe 's committee, to distance those two pieces of finance fairly shortly, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. It has been almost five months now since this report was released and the government is moving very slowly. I realize they are restructuring the whole government and consolidating, but nevertheless, Mr. Speaker, I think this was a serious concern raised by our committee. We recommended these two areas be reviewed and changed in the manner that they would become more independent of each other.

Mr. Speaker, his comments indicated that it would be done soon. How soon is soon? Can I get a time frame from the Minister?

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Supplementary To Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

John Pollard

Hay River

Certainly, by the end of this fiscal year. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Question 26-12(3): Progress On Public Account's Recommendation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you. My question is for the Minister of Education . Mr. Speaker, yesterday I questioned the Minister of Education in regard to the divisional board of education's decision to suspend the group home parents in Fort Smith who looked after the Lutsel K'e students. I did ask him if he would consider whether or not he could arrange for an independent committee to review the process of this suspension, as opposed to the committee only being composed of South Slave Divisional Board members.

The Minister indicated to me yesterday that there was no suspension. I confirmed with all the documents I have that there has been a suspension and I indicated that to the Minister. I would like to ask the Minister whether or not he has checked to see whether there were suspensions and will he attempt to ensure that an independent committee, other than South Slave Divisional Board members, review this whole process of how this suspension came about? Thank you.

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Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

There were really two questions asked, Mrs. Marie-Jewell . Mr. Arvaluk .

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Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all to the second question, I apologize for making a mistake yesterday in regard to the suspension of the Lutsel K'e house parents. Yes, in fact they have been suspended for the term of the review.

In the terms of the divisional boards making the review, I think the divisional board has made every attempt to make this as independent as possible, by having the review team consist of members from Hay River Reserve, Hay River and Fort Resolution. Excluded from the review team are Lutsel K'e members and Fort Smith members. I suspect that this is because the issue is one of Fort Smith and Lutsel K'e.

When the review team makes their recommendation to the divisional board we will hear about it. Depending on the seriousness and complexity of this review there may be a necessity to develop an independent review which may be determined further. However, I would like to assure the Member that this is the first step for the independency of the review which the Member is recommending. This could be done if further action is required.

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Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It appears that the Minister does not want to allow other parties to look at this process or decision on the South Slave Divisional Board. The Minister indicated that it is independent because the people who are going to review it belong to the Hay River Reserve, Hay River and Fort Resolution. However, does the Minister realize that these particular individuals were the ones who were on the South Slave Divisional Board voting for the suspension? He is trying to tell the community and my constituents that this is independent. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk .

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Further Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, the review team has no direct responsibility to take action. The divisional board as a whole will have to take the review team's recommendation and take action on it. The divisional boards operate as independently as possible from the department and they are elected members of that region. It is their responsibility to take the first step to find out whether further investigation is required. At that time we will be consulted. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 37

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I recognize the autonomy of that board, however, at the same time the Minister, under the Education Act, does have a responsibility to ensure that these boards are run properly. This is why I have asked the Minister to determine whether additional members can be placed on this committee to assure the public this committee is independent. Mr. Speaker, it appears that the Minister is reluctant to allow for this independent committee to be formed.

I would like to ask the Minister, once again, whether he requested the divisional board to put additional individuals on this committee to review the suspension of these group home parents to allow for participation of people who are not on the South Slave Division Board of Education? The

individuals currently on the committee are the ones who voted to suspend the group home parents. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk .

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Further Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be in contact with the divisional board Chairman to convey the Member's concern. We will then be able to determine under the Education Act whether we should be intervening in their deliberations or actions.

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Further Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Your last supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, since the review of this particular issue is coming up before the South Slave Divisional Board committee this weekend, will the Minister make a commitment to convey this immediately and advise this House early next week the results of his conversation and, also, at the same time, to review the Education Act to recognize his responsibilities? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk .

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Further Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Question 27-12(3): Independent Committee To Review Suspension Process

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question 28-12(3): Update On Divisional Boards' Funding

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education . In the north the divisional boards were going to be funded monthly. They were collecting interest on it when they were funded quarterly. Has the Department of Education come to a decision on whether the funding will be delivered to these divisional boards? To cover for the interest they were collecting in the past with the quarterly payments, will you be making up for this? We are working hard to do well with the education system. Has there been any decision on what kind of funding program will be put in place for the divisional boards of education in the N.W.T.? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 28-12(3): Update On Divisional Boards' Funding

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arvaluk .

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Return To Question 28-12(3): Update On Divisional Boards' Funding

Question 28-12(3): Update On Divisional Boards' Funding

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We probably all know that the quarterly payments have been cancelled so the divisional boards were running short of their funding. The government has agreed that they would review this again. We also know that the government is cutting back their funding so there was a decision to make monthly funding to the divisional boards. We are constantly in contact with the divisional boards in the Baffin, Keewatin and other regions. After meeting with them constantly we will probably come to a decision by the end of this year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 28-12(3): Update On Divisional Boards' Funding

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier . It concerns the round table on the environment and the economy. In the 11th Assembly, from a lot of work on economic issues, it was decided that we should establish a round table on the economy and the environment because these two things have to be looked at side by side. In light of the fact you have had one of the biggest staking rushes in Canadian history, and there is an incredible interest beginning to grow on developing some of our resources in the west, especially hydro development, I would like to ask the Premier when does she plan to reconvene this round table on the environment and the economy?

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Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, at this time I have not addressed and spent time on when that particular composition of an agency is going to be re-instituted. Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the Member, and other Members here, that the claims processes are being deliberated and that many of the claims have an environmental area within their claims. I believe that in looking at the round table, the claims process has to be taken into consideration.

I would like to say very clearly, and not leave any misapprehensions, I just have not addressed the issue of the round table on the environment in consideration of a lot of the other activities that are going on. Certainly with any development, including hydro development, the idea that people themselves involved with these developments does create a balancing factor. However, I do plan to look at the round table on the environment but I am not going to do it immediately because there are other priorities. Thank you.

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Return To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. My supplementary, Mr. Speaker, has the Premier or any of the Ministers received a recommendation that this round table on the environment and the economy should be disbanded because it does not serve any useful purpose?

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Supplementary To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 38

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe that we did have some correspondence to that effect. However, there are many other issues coming forward, such as the claims

process and other ways of dealing with these issues. Perhaps this particular way of dealing with the economy and the environment is redundant and could be accommodated best by letting other processes come into play and that the round table be disbanded. Yes, we do have some recommendations on that matter.

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Further Return To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since then, the government has received recommendations that this particular form of consultation on the economy and environment is no longer needed and I just thought I would be prevented from asking other questions next week and next winter. Could we have a copy of that so I know exactly what the objections are?

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Supplementary To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, whatever I have, I am quite prepared to provide it to the Member.

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Further Return To Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Question 29-12(3): Round Table On Economy And Environment

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources . On November 19, there were a number of questions in this House about the caribou that were near Yellowknife, along the Ingraham Trail. I have heard that there was quite a lot of hunting activity in the area surrounding the trail and that some of it became quite wild. I have even heard that some of the families living along the trail became afraid to leave their own homes because of the number of hunters firing rifles in the vicinity.

Recognizing that the Minister became aware of the fact that caribou were so close to Yellowknife, and even flew out to Ross Lake to look down at them, can he indicate to the House whether his department made arrangements to provide additional Renewable Resources officers to patrol the area?

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Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the caribou came into the vicinity of Ingraham Trail we brought in officers from Fort Rae to assist the Yellowknife officers and, also, we utilized casual employment to enforce the law. Thank you.

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Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Has the Minister or his senior officials held a briefing session with officers in the field to determine the nature of the hunting activity along the Ingraham Trail?

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if I understand the question. What is the Member referring to by the nature of the hunting in the corridor? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Would the Honourable Member care to clarify her question?

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, my question was quite simple. Are you having briefing sessions with the Renewable Resources officers out in the field, or in the vicinity of where the hunting is being carried out on the Ingraham Trail?

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As soon as I came back from my community, I believe it was on November 2, I flew out, no, I am wrong, I came back here on the night of November 6, and I flew out I believe on November 7, to see where the hunting had taken place. I took a Renewable Resources officer who had been monitoring the hunting and he briefed me where the hunting has taken place and where the caribou were generally moving towards. That is all the contact I have had so far with the officers that are out in the field, although I had briefings from my D.M. and my A.D.M. as well. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Question, Supplementary. Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary Question. I will be asking in Inuktitut to see if he can understand me better. Has the Minister, or his senior officials, had a meeting or had a briefing with your Renewable Resources officers who are out in the field, to determine how the hunting has been taking place outside the Ingraham Trail? Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker. I have not had a meeting with field staff to tell them how they should monitor the situation. I do not know if my D.M. has had meetings with the field staff that monitors the hunting. No, I, myself have not had a meeting with officers. No.

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Further Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 39

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Your last Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My last Supplementary. Does the Department of Renewable Resources have a plan for responding to situations in which unusual or unexpected levels of hunting activity take place due to variations in the usual migration routes of game animals?

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must be not understanding today. This is the second question that I do not understand. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike , would you like to clarify the question?

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, I am getting tired to repeating my questions. I would suggest to the Minister he look up the questions in the unedited transcripts tomorrow and respond to me at that time.

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Supplementary To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Okay.

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Further Return To Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Question 30-12(3): Additional Renewable Resources Officers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions, Mr. Pudluk .

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Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources . He may not understand my question, however, at the last meeting we spoke about polar bear meat that had been injected with a tranquillizer. He could not answer my questions at the time as he indicated he did not have the results of the review. Can he indicate to the House as to how long the tranquillizer can be in the polar bear, without effecting the meat itself? Thank you.

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Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The doctors have reviewed these tranquillizers after the polar bears have been injected and they informed me that after 24 hours the tranquillizers have affected the meat and they indicated to me that after three days the tranquillizer is no longer in the body of the polar bear. We usually tell the communities there will be some studies on polar bears that have been tranquillized and we have warned the communities not to eat the polar bear during those three days. After three days is up it no longer affects the meat. Thank you.

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Return To Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pudluk .

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Supplementary To Question 31-12(3): Effects Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Yes, we believe your response but I would like to ask how many polar bears have been studied? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 31-12(3): Effects Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Supplementary To Question 31-12(3): Effects Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure how many polar bears were studied but I will get this information to the Member. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 31-12(3): Effects Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Question 31-12(3): Effect Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is taking the question as notice. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 32-12(3): Policy On Food Vouchers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Subsequent to the return to oral question which was made by the honourable Minister of Social Services this is regarding the payment of social assistance to recipients. I am not questioning the decision made by the Kitikmeot Regional Council. In fact I feel like I am in a difficult position. I brought this matter up earlier this week because when I met with the Social Services Appeal Committee, they made it very clear that there is not much flexibility when dealing with vouchers.

People want to go shopping at the local Co-op, the Northern Store or sometimes they want to buy country food from local hunters and trappers or send money to their kids residing outside of town.

I am wondering if the Minister would seek input from the local Social Services Appeal Committee which currently administers under this policy option, which is rather restrictive. Thank you.

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Question 32-12(3): Policy On Food Vouchers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Minister.

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Return To Question 32-12(3): Policy On Food Vouchers

Question 32-12(3): Policy On Food Vouchers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I think the attitude of the department is to try to issue social assistance payments in the most appropriate way, looking at the needs of the individual person and the community. Yes, I will be open to accepting advice from the local Social Services Appeal Committee in that community and will ask my officials to get their input in looking at the current policy. Thank you.

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Return To Question 32-12(3): Policy On Food Vouchers

Question 32-12(3): Policy On Food Vouchers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Pudluk .

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Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 40

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the Minister responsible for the N.W.T. Power Corporation about the power poles. Accidents have happened more than once regarding safety poles. I wonder if he would consider installing the visible wire protectors. Some communities have these and some do not. The wire which is holding up the poles should be installed with a visible warning sign because you cannot see them. Would the Minister consider putting warning signs on those power poles in the communities that do not have them so that they can be more visible to people who are using the roads. I would like the Minister to consider installing the warning signs in those pole

wires so that they can be more visible to the public when they are riding their vehicles. Thank you.

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Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, yes I will discuss the issue with the Chairman of the N.W.T. Power Corporation to see if there could be more easily identifiable markings so that travellers can see much more quickly where the guy wires are. If there are any particular instances which we should be looking at, I would like to have more detail on those. Thank you.

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Return To Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk .

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Supplementary To Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I agree with the Minister and I think this should be done right away because in many communities which I have visited it needs to be done. About a week ago a man from Resolute recently died bumping into those wires. Quite a few days after that they put a warning sign up. Perhaps before another accident occurs the Minister could consider talking to the Chairman of the N.W.T Power Corporation to install those warning signs. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, I certainly will discuss this immediately with the Chairman of the N.W.T. Power Corporation.

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Further Return To Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Question 33-12(3): Installation Of Warning Signs On Power Poles Lacking Wire Protectors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Zoe .

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Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic, Development and Tourism . Mr. Speaker, all these years the Members have always referred to this store which our government owns and operates at the Toronto Airport. My colleague from Fort Smith and I, while travelling through Toronto, found this particular store. Mr. Speaker, I was approaching the store attendant who was being asked a question by one of the customers in regard to whether or not there were any white foxes in the Northwest Territories. The attendant replied with a no.

He said "no, there is not any in the Northwest Territories." I was curious as to how the department trains their staff in regard to the geographic and history of the Northwest Territories. I wanted to ask the Minister what orientation is given to their staff who operate that store?

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Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

John Pollard

Hay River

We have obviously been lax in the white fox department, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the manager has been here on a number of occasions and I guess we are relying on her to get the message across to the staff that work there. We also require them to read publications from the Northwest Territories and our information from tourism, etc. It would appear though that we are not doing a good enough job. I will check into the incident which Mr. Zoe makes reference to and report back to him. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question is for the Government Leader . On November 19, 1992 I was appalled by the answer given by the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to my honourable colleague from Deh Cho. When the Member asked Mr. Kakfwi if he had received an official apology from the federal government for the shameful conduct of military personnel assigned to operation Nordic Reliant, the Minister responded and I quote "I will check my mail and get back to the Member." That response is not satisfactory. It borders on an irresponsible statement.

These soldiers slaughtered our caribou with automatic weapons and were dealt with very lightly by the justice system. My question is, while the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs is busy checking his mail, will the Premier make a commitment that she will write to the Honourable Marcel Masse, federal Minister of National Defence and the Commanding Officer for Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry Regiment in Winnipeg, to request a formal apology for the conduct of these military personnel during their stay in the Northwest Territories?

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Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I just want to assure the honourable Member that Mr. Kakfwi has assured me that he stayed at work until 9:30 last night checking the mail in hopes that he would find some correspondence that would at least acknowledge what had happened, recognize the extent of that type of behaviour, the effect it had on people up here to give due respect to the people of the Northwest Territories and the environment. However, he did not find anything. Yes, I will take the recommendation and act upon it. Thank you.

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Return To Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Item 6, Written Questions. Item 7, Returns to Written Questions. Item 8, Replies to Opening Address. We will take a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

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Return To Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Question 35-12(3): Request Apology From Military Personnel

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 41

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I call the House back to order. Item 9, Replies to Budget Address.

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Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 42

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, I believe you do not have a quorum.

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Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 42

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

There is no quorum. Clerk, would you please ring the bell? The Chair recognizes a quorum. Item 9, Replies to Budget Address. Mr. Pudluk .

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Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 42

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a short reply. Yesterday, the Minister of Finance gave us a very good statement and I appreciate his statement. He talked about the things that he wants to change and how the communities can be involved. It is not the first time I have heard someone talk like that. The government is always saying that they want to do this and that and change things in regards to finances.

From the time I first became a Member of the Legislative Assembly in 1975, there have been a lot of speeches about how money can be effectively used. Finance Ministers talk about this all the time saying that the communities have to be involved. If I could read along with the Minister of Finance all the Hansard reports, they all say the same things. I know, and I have seen, when the government is spending their money and when they give the money out to the contractors for building houses, and sewer pipes, and airports, you never know how they spend it.

The government really does not know, you do not really see how they are spending the money that you give out for contracting. I use this as an example. The contractors doing work such as housing and pipes and whatever else in the community, they do not hire local people. They are always trying to look for people they can pay less to work for them, even though the transportation from the southern provinces will be very expensive. Once they get to the communities to do their contract work, they try to hire people that they can pay the least. There are people in the communities who are there and are not hired.

That is just an example and I think we all know that the contractors get hired from Newfoundland because Newfoundlanders can be paid just a little bit of money to go to work because there are no jobs in Newfoundland. When they hire those people from Newfoundland, they let them work for six months, they could call them northerners after six months.

For this reason, they do not mind paying for their airfare and their accommodation. The only thing they are thinking of is that as long as they can pay this individual as little as possible, that is all they care about.

Every year, when the budget address is being made, we hear really good things that the government is going to do and wants to do and saying that the communities have to be involved is what we hear every year during the budget session. If you cannot see what is really going on in the communities, as a government, the people that you hire as contractors do not do what you say that they do. When you are living right in the community, it is very tiring to have it happen over and over again. You did your budget address. It just seems that after you have done your budget address that is is over for you. If you are living right in the communities, it does not happen like that.

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to make this statement because the communities have to get more out of the funding that is spent by the government and I wanted to let the Members know about it. Like I said before, I will make my reply brief, and I would like to say thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Item 9: Replies To Budget Address

Page 42

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Replies to Budget Address. Item 10, Petitions. Item 11, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Mr. Todd .

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Committee Report 1-12(3): Standing Committee On Finance, Report On The Review Of The 1993-94 Capital Estimates

Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 42

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to give the report of the Standing Committee on Finance on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates. It has now been a full year since the beginning of the 12th Legislative Assembly. In that short time, the Standing Committee on Finance has reviewed two Capital Estimates and one Main Estimate. It has been a busy and productive year for all of us.

During this review, the Standing Committee on Finance was pleased to see that many of the recommendations of our previous two reports have been incorporated into the 1993-94 Capital Estimates.

In our report on the 1992-93 Capital Estimates, the Standing Committee on Finance recommended that the 1993-94 Capital Estimates be presented to the Legislative Assembly in the form of a five year capital plan so that the Legislative Assembly has an indication of what the capital priorities are, how they are to be achieved and what they will ultimately cost.

Mr. Speaker, we asked for it and we got it. We are pleased to report that the government provided the committee with probably the best capital document to date, indicating for the first time the capital projects planned for the next five years and, more importantly, their substantiation. In addition, the government has sought input into the capital planning process from both local governments and Members of the Legislative Assembly. These are major improvements to the capital planning process, improvements that will make the capital budget of this government more reflective of the real capital needs of our communities.

The committee was also pleased that the Capital Estimates are being considered by this Legislative Assembly in November. This change in the timing of the budgetary process allows government sufficient time to prepare local resources for training and employment and prepare tender calls far in advance of the summer construction season. The committee expects that, in future, we will see tender calls in July or August.

The committee has stated, on several occasions, that the capital budget has to be a fundamental, economic instrument of this government. We feel that, along with other initiatives such as the introduction of the revised Business Incentive Policy and the negotiation of regional contracts, these changes in the capital planning process represent another important step in maximizing northern participation and employment in the construction of capital facilities.

However, Mr. Speaker, the committee believes that government can go even further in improving the capital planning process. In this respect, we have recommended that the government provide details of the 5 Year Capital Plan to the respective communities as soon as possible. In this way, communities and local contractors can prepare for future construction. Recognizing that future years' plans are not unchangeable, communities can also provide government with valuable feedback on the changes to their capital plan priorities. In this and in the following ways, the capital plan can be further strengthened and enhanced.

Mr. Speaker, on the major issues, the Standing Committee on Finance identified several major issues during its review with the Minister and government departments in October. These included:

A capital program strategy. Mr. Speaker, what is the purpose of the government's capital program and how well is it meeting its goals? The seemingly simple question still remains unanswered in the Capital Estimates. Essentially, the committee asks, what are the capital priorities of the Northwest Territories and how we best meet these needs with the limited resources available?

The committee believes that the answer to this question is available from the information gathered through the Capital Needs Assessment. It is then reasonable to expect that Cabinet would have the following major concerns in this important area.

1. How best to allocate the scarce budget resources between capital and the main O & M Estimates.

2. How best to allocate the scarce capital budget, Mr. Zoe says "among competing government programs and communities so they are allocated fairly and equitably in a manner to meet urgent needs and to support other important socio-economic programs and policies of the Government of the Northwest Territories such as, economic and municipal development."

3. How best to design capital projects so they can satisfy the reasonable needs of the user and represent an equitable and fair social benefit, are cost effective to construct and minimize life-cycle costs in terms of O & M expenditures.

4. How best to build the required number of capital projects at minimum cost to the capital purse while maximizing other socio-economic needs such as job creation, employment training, etc. The committee found that Cabinet does not require departments and agencies to provide these and, therefore, does not get reliable information as to how fairly and equitably capital projects have been allocated throughout all the communities of the Northwest Territories. Hence, Cabinet does not know how well one of their major programs is dealing with public problems.

Accordingly, the Cabinet is in no position to assure the committee of the Legislative Assembly that the capital program has been allocated fairly and equitably and is currently being operated with due regard to efficiency, economy and effectiveness.

Mr. Speaker, since our committee's work began, we have noted that the government has initiated a review of the capital planning process and has agreed to an independent capital program evaluation to be undertaken in February of 1994.

A by-product of the review of the capital planning process should be to articulate a clear capital program strategy and specify the information to be provided by departments and agencies so that Cabinet can evaluate the capital program and take measures for improvement if and where necessary.

On capital priorities. Exhibit one of the report, summarizes the Five Year Capital Plan priorities by activity. In other words, it shows where the government is planning to focus its capital expenditures over the next five years. The government informed us on a number of occasions that each year, during the planning and funding allocation process, the relative priority of departmental capital programs are evaluated in relationship to such critical factors as:

1. The overall Legislative and Cabinet priorities;

2. New developments and changing circumstances; and

3. Community and public input.

Generally, the committee is supportive of the government's focus on the major capital areas of public housing, school, community works and transportation which account for over half of capital expenditures planned. Nevertheless, during our review, the committee found specific projects that simply do not meet this criteria.

For example, the committee failed to see the relative merits of such projects as: relocating the Enterprise weigh scale at a cost of $1.5 million; the reconstruction and paving of the Yellowknife access road near the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre at a cost of $3. million; an addition to the Iqaluit Museum at an overall cost of $2. million; or office renovations for the Department of Finance. We saw no evidence in the project's substantiation that the benefit exceeded the cost for these and other capital projects.

As we have stated before, in difficult financial times, we must focus our limited resources on providing the basic services and infrastructure within all regions of the territories. The committee remains concerned that standards are too high for specific projects.

Not enough effort has been made to standardize design for capital facilities and officials and political leaders are not showing the same prudent caution when spending public funds as if it were their own. We have got to get the message across to the departments and agencies that we do not have a bottomless pit of money.

During our review, our committee found many cases where the estimates for capital projects had changed substantially from the previous years. In particular, the committee noted that the Arctic College Applied Arts Centre in Fort Smith increased by $1.3 million or over 17 per cent over the past year's estimate and the Fort Smith Water Treatment Plant increased $1.7 million. This degree of inaccuracy is unacceptable in the capital planning process. The committee believes that it may be necessary to obtain the appropriate expertise to rectify these capital planning errors.

Mr. Speaker, with respect to unorganized communities. Members raised some serious concerns over how capital infrastructure is being provided to smaller communities. There are no policy guidelines in place. It is our observation that, without clear guidelines, it can be said that capital infrastructure is awarded more on influence than need. We have recommended that clear guidelines be established.

While the capital planning document provided to the committee was a significant improvement, we do have some further recommendations for refinement. Nowhere in the budgetary process do we know what the total impact of these capital projects will be on the ongoing operation and maintenance costs to government. Without these costs, the committee cannot determine whether we can afford them over the long-term.

In future documents, the committee will expect to know the ongoing cost of each project and in total. To take this a step further, strategic capital investments should be considered which will eventually, or actually, reduce ongoing operating costs to the government.

On Surplus Assets and Privatization, Mr. Speaker. The Strength at Two Levels Report recommended disposal of all surplus assets. The committee looks forward to receiving the government's response, an action plan, for identifying and selling surplus assets and related privatization opportunities in order to free up much needed funds currently invested in capital assets.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Finance again recognizes that the government has put much effort into this Capital Budget and have responded, in detail, to our previous recommendations which are referred to in appendix three of our report. While we appreciate the efforts made to improve the capital plan, the committee believes that significant improvements can be made. To that end, the committee respectfully submits a list of 34 recommendations for consideration to this Assembly.

Specific concerns have also been identified in the departmental reviews which are part of this report. It should be noted that these recommendations do not include our review of the capital estimates for the N.W.T. Housing Corporation. We will report separately on this budget once it has been finalized by the corporation and presented to the committee.

Motion To Move The Report Of The Standing Committee On Finance Into Committee Of The Whole

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by my honourable colleague from Nahendeh, that the report of the Standing Committee on Finance be received and moved into committee of the whole, for consideration. Thank you.

---Applause

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Committee Report 1-12(3): Standing Committee On Finance, Report On The Review Of The 1993-94 Capital Estimates

Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 44

The Speak