Debates of Oct. 25th, 2004

This is page numbers 951 - 986 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Ministers Absent From The House

Expo 2005

The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation "from The Ground Up, Celebrating 30 Years"

Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole

Multiyear Funding Of Non-government Organizations

Evaluation Of Nursing Positions At Stanton Territorial Hospital

Enforcement Of Wildlife Harvesting Regulations Regarding Meat Wastage

Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Cleanup Of Con And Giant Mines

Staff Morale At North Slave Correctional Centre

National Community Living Awareness Month

Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Status Of The Protected Areas Strategy

Review Of Market Housing Initiative

Course Load Requirement For Student Financial Assistance

Wrongful Dismissal Suits In Corrections Services

Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Written Question 49-15(3): Statistics At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Written Question 50-15(3): Supervisory Policy

Written Question 51-15(3): Fuel Spill At Jackfish Lake Power Plant

Written Question 52-15(3): Hunting Practices And Charges

Written Question 53-15(3): Statistics About Smoking

Tabled Document 83-15(3): NWT Power Corporation 2003-2004 Annual Report

Tabled Document 84-15(3): Community Driven Solutions: NWT Housing Corporation 2003-2004 Annual Report

Affordable Electric Power

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 951

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, Members. Welcome back to the House for another week of work. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 66-15(3): Ministers Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Joe Handley will be absent from the House today, tomorrow and Wednesday to attend the First Ministers' meeting in Ottawa.

I would also like to advise Members that the Honourable Floyd Roland will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to attend the First Ministers' meeting in Ottawa. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 66-15(3): Ministers Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Minister's Statement 67-15(3): Expo 2005

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, Heritage Canada has invited the provinces and territories to participate at Expo 2005, to be held from March to September 2005 in Aichi, Japan. Aichi Prefecture is about an hour train ride west of Tokyo, near the city of Nagoya. The theme of Expo 2005 is Nature's Wisdom.

Organizers anticipate that more than 15 million people will visit Expo 2005 over a six-month period and 1.5 million visitors are anticipated to visit the Canadian pavilion with some 90 percent of these visitors expected to be Japanese.

This exposition provides an excellent opportunity to market the Northwest Territories to key target audiences.

Over the past five years, the Japanese tourism market has grown substantially in the Northwest Territories. Last year alone, Mr. Speaker, Japanese tourists comprised approximately 24 percent of the total number of leisure tourists visiting the Northwest Territories and they contributed over $16 million to our economy.

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Minister's Statement 67-15(3): Expo 2005

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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Minister's Statement 67-15(3): Expo 2005

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

This season, Aurora viewing companies are expecting 11,000 visitors, a 10 percent increase over the number that visited last year.

Mr. Speaker, I will co-chair an oversight review committee with my colleague, the Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Jane Groenewegen , to oversee planning for the Northwest Territories participation at Expo 2005.

Currently, work is underway to prepare for our participation in this important event. We intend to highlight all aspects of the Northwest Territories, with specific focus on tourism, diamonds, culture and the arts. We are also very interested in working with private sector partners to market the Northwest Territories and its products. This provides an opportunity to enhance our presentation at Expo 2005 through the levering of partnership funding from the private sector.

I look forward to participating with Canada, our tourism industry and private sector partners in promoting the Northwest Territories as a prime international destination for tourism and business. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 67-15(3): Expo 2005

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation , Mr. Krutko .

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Minister's Statement 68-15(3): The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation "from The Ground Up, Celebrating 30 Years"

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 951

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, the month of October marks the 30th anniversary of the NWT Housing Corporation. Since its inception, the corporation has made significant strides toward improving and supplying housing in the NWT.

Communities in the Northwest Territories have been visibly transformed over the last 30 years. New modern houses have replaced those lacking basic facilities, seniors are enjoying uniquely-designed facilities and public housing units have been renovated to provide safe environments for singles and families.

In 1974, we offered a total of seven programs. Today, the Housing Corporation manages approximately 2,300 units and offers 16 diverse programs.

The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is proud of its achievements over the past 30 years. As we look to the future, we see that the demand for housing will remain high, especially in our growing and developing economy. To meet this challenge, we must continue to work in cooperation with residents, Members of the House and the business community.

Both the Housing Corporation and I, as the Minister responsible, are looking forward to this challenge. It is important to mention, Mr. Speaker, that without the hard work of our dedicated staff and the 23 LHOs scattered

across the NWT this would not be possible. I would like to take this opportunity to commend staff for their hard work. Well done! Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 68-15(3): The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation "from The Ground Up, Celebrating 30 Years"

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Mr. Hawkins .

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I would like to move the NWT Housing Corporation Minister's statement into Committee of the Whole. Thank you.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Do you have a seconder for that motion, Mr. Hawkins ?

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. My colleague, Mr. Kevin Menicoche , MLA for Nahendeh. Thank you.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . There's a motion on the floor. To the motion.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

Some Hon. Members

Question.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 68-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 952

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

The Minister's statement for the NWT Housing Corporation will be moved into Committee of the Whole, Minister's Statement 68-15(3).

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Multiyear Funding Of Non-government Organizations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 952

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to talk about year-to-year and multiyear funding. Mr. Speaker, first I would like to talk about the fact that in June of 2002, a social agenda was tabled in this House, it's Social Agenda: A Draft for People of the NWT. Some of the recommendations out of that talked about year-to-year funding and it was one of the primary key recommendations, as the way I see it.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take a small quote from an open letter from then- Premier Kakfwi at the time. He mentioned in his letter: "The working group has worked hard over the last eight months to generate 10 recommendations in this report." He also recommended that it's critically important that we work towards an expedient response to the recommendations.

Mr. Speaker, this is over two years old and at the rate we are going, it's going to be three years very soon. Mr. Speaker, it's a real concern that we have many organizations out there that are working every year on year-to-year funding. They are putting more administrative time into doing the functions that they do instead of program and service deliveries which are the programs they should be doing.

Mr. Speaker, at present, this government has the appearance of being more worried about devolution deals, oil and gas, hydro and even diamond exploration than dealing with some of the social issues that these riches bring. Mr. Speaker, that causes me some very serious concern. It causes me a lot of duress when I think about this government spending more time worrying about money that we may get some day, dreaming of that money that someday may come. However, Mr. Speaker, we could start doing a lot with the money we have today.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say that we could create a hallmark of this Assembly. We could recreate a system by taking the recommendations raised in the social agenda and putting them to practice. It would be time better spent, Mr. Speaker.

As I said earlier, I would like to see the NGOs out there working with the three or five-year agreement rather than putting time, money and effort into renewing these agreements every single year. Mr. Speaker, what about bureaucratic time that is used to go through this process? We have hundreds and hundreds of organizations out there on year-to-year agreements. They put the time in, but bureaucrats put in a significant amount of time in reviewing these.

I think we could do a lot better for our people out there. Mr. Speaker, I think that time is well spent in program delivery. We could talk about the elimination of red tape, Mr. Speaker. May I seek unanimous consent to continue my Member's statement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Multiyear Funding Of Non-government Organizations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 952

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Hawkins . You may conclude your statement.

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Multiyear Funding Of Non-government Organizations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 952

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I say thank you to all my colleagues. Mr. Speaker, out there we have NGOs dealing with mounds of paperwork when they should be dealing with social issues they are signed onto. They should be doing program delivery, which they are supposed to do.

Mr. Speaker, long-term multiyear funding would provide stability for these organizations rather than getting them to deal with the stress that is created fighting for year-to-year funding. Mr. Speaker, this is not good for these organizations.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I will say where is the hallmark of this Assembly? Long after the oil and gas is gone, who is going to be the backbone of the Northwest Territories? Social programs, social NGOs, that help our communities day to day? Where is our leadership? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Multiyear Funding Of Non-government Organizations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 952

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Evaluation Of Nursing Positions At Stanton Territorial Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 952

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize the importance of a group of persons who often do not get enough credit for doing the great job they do for us. That group are nurses and health care professionals, Mr. Speaker.

My wife is a nurse and I have had a firsthand glimpse into what it is that nurses do, and I must say I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for the amount of work that nurses do for us.

In March of 2000, the Union of Northern Workers filed a grievance on behalf of 42 nurses working at Stanton Territorial Hospital alleging that the current job descriptions did not accurately reflect the duties the nurses were required to perform. In 2002, the decision was made to undertake a review of all nursing and allied health profession jobs within the health and social services system to ensure the job descriptions and resulting evaluations correctly reflected the knowledge, skills, abilities and working conditions of each position.

Mr. Speaker, the re-evaluation has resulted in some very troubling changes in the way in which we are paying our nurses. I will state that I am fully supportive of the increases that have taken hold for some nurses in the specialty areas. However, the change has been causing difficulties for those who have not seen an increase, especially the nurses that have been there for 15 to 20 years working alongside their colleagues.

Mr. Speaker, I am aware of a person who, after serving as an LPN for over 20 years, went back to school to become a registered nurse. Now that she's a registered nurse, there are LPNs at Stanton who are earning more than she is as a registered nurse. To me, Mr. Speaker, this is fundamentally wrong.

The Minister and his staff have told me on two separate occasions that this new practice of paying nurses happens in other jurisdictions. I have not seen any evidence or proof that this is the case. This is the only place in Canada where nurses are being subjected to wage segregation. In other jurisdictions, they pay all nurses the same. They can earn more through education and certification. This seems to be a more logical approach than the way we are doing things here at Stanton.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I just want to say that nurses and other health care professionals all deserve to be treated equally. Nurses need our support in trying to correct what has happened at Stanton. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Evaluation Of Nursing Positions At Stanton Territorial Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Hawkins . You may conclude your statement.

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Evaluation Of Nursing Positions At Stanton Territorial Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Nurses need our support in trying to correct what has happened at Stanton. It doesn't happen in Hay River. It doesn't happen in Inuvik and, as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, it doesn't happen anywhere else in the country. Why would a government, in good conscious, set out to drive a wedge between our nursing staff at Stanton? Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time on today's order paper, I will have questions for the Minister. Thank you.

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Evaluation Of Nursing Positions At Stanton Territorial Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Enforcement Of Wildlife Harvesting Regulations Regarding Meat Wastage

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to talk about an issue that was on CBC this morning that I feel will be coming up more regularly in the future and should be addressed by this government.

Mr. Speaker, I am referring to the government's hunting and harvesting regulation and the penalties for meat wastage. I don't believe the current penalties are sufficient and I would like to see more monitoring and policing of our highways and hunting areas by our renewable resource officers.

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Enforcement Of Wildlife Harvesting Regulations Regarding Meat Wastage

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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Enforcement Of Wildlife Harvesting Regulations Regarding Meat Wastage

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

With regret to similar situations, Mr. Speaker, which have taken place in the Akaitcho Territory in 2002 that included a DIAND official, the penalties imposed or lack thereof, this type of hunting practice will only worsen and does not reflect traditional values which we are all trying to teach our children.

When violators know that our justice system does not effectively deal with infractions and people know they can get away with this type of practice, it will only continue. If a judgment had been made that was deemed fair and just, and a message to the public was made that this practice was totally unacceptable no matter who you are and who you work for, the number of incidents would be minimized and people would think twice about wasting meat or breaking traditional laws.

Mr. Speaker, I realize that it is one thing to get charged for such disrespect for wildlife through our justice system, but people have to get caught in order for our justice system to deal with the infractions. This increased pressure on our renewable resource officers to ensure proper monitoring and practices are adhered to by the public is something that this government should support by way of increasing the number of officers to carry out this function on a 24-hour basis.

The migration of caribou being close to the city is something that does not happen annually or for extended periods, so the extra workload or costs associated with ensuring public safety for motorists and residents along the Ingraham Trail should not be jeopardized by government budget restraints. Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development about this issue during the question period later today. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Enforcement Of Wildlife Harvesting Regulations Regarding Meat Wastage

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 953

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, a while ago, the Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable J. Michael Miltenberger , issued a challenge to me; the challenge to be smoke free. I am pleased to report that, today, I accept his challenge. At noon here in the Great Hall, I joined my fellow colleague, Norman Yakeleya , the

Member for Sahtu , and together we made a public commitment to quit smoking.

---Applause

Now, the challenge to be smoke-free is not primarily about getting people to quit smoking. It is about making sure that young people never start in the first place. If I am successful at quitting for life, I know that I will benefit and so I hope I am successful. But it is not only for myself that I am doing this. As a former smoker, I am well aware that smoking affects everyone who comes in contact with it. One of the biggest reasons that young people take up smoking to begin with is that they see other people around them smoking; not only their peers but older people too, parents and role models.

Children copy what they see their parents doing, but I am hoping this influence can work two ways. By setting a good example when I am quitting myself, I hope to have a positive influence on other people around me, particularly on youth. Already, I know my decision to quit has encouraged others to try and achieve the same thing.

Smoking is a serious problem in the North. Our rates of tobacco use are twice what they are in other parts of the country. By the time NWT youth reach 15 years of age, 42 percent of them smoke. It is these young people who really need to hear the message.

To that end, part of the commitment I made today is to encourage youth in my riding to be smoke-free. I have accepted a challenge from Mr. Yakeleya to see which of our constituencies can get the most youth to commit to being smoke-free. I will be contacting schools in our respective ridings to encourage all students to join the challenge. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement.

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Menicoche .

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, honourable colleagues. So let me make one more commitment today. I commit myself to inform this House of the results of the challenge that Mr. Yakeleya and I have taken. I promise to return with the statistics on the number of young people who have taken up the challenge with us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Good luck with that, both in giving up the habit and being a role model for young people. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this afternoon, I also made a decision along with the honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche , to do the right thing not only for ourselves; we made this commitment for our people in our regions. I made the choice to stop continuous smoking. I have taken the Minister of Health and Social Services' challenge to be smoke-free. That is almost one year ago he gave me that challenge. It has taken me a long time to come to that challenge. The decision to look at my life and the impact of cigarettes on the younger people greatly disturbed me, Mr. Speaker.

However, the power of my addiction to the nicotine which is in the cigarette has always overridden my logical thinking of putting the cigarette away. It was a common statement that I would quit tomorrow, it was not hurting anybody, or it was nobody else's business.

So, Mr. Speaker, enough is enough. It is time to walk the walk and butt out for the rest of our lives. Our children, our youth, deserve a chance to live a good strong life away from the harmful addictions.

Mr. Speaker, the 2003 school tobacco survey similarly reports that 39 percent of young people between the ages of 10 and 17 years smoke in small communities like those in the Sahtu. A pack of cigarettes cost about $15 in the Sahtu. However, although smoking is very expensive, it is more than that. Mr. Speaker, a letter will be sent out also to the schools in the Sahtu to challenge the school children not to smoke at all, or to give up smoking, to be smoke-free, and also a chance to be out there to all the constituents in the Sahtu region. I have also taken the challenge of Mr.

Menicoche , to challenge his constituency to see which numbers would be the greater in terms of being smoke-free in our region. I love a good challenge. I would also like to report the results in January.

Mr. Speaker, for many years I have looked at cigarettes. One thing that really made a big difference in our life was, the other day when I was driving back from Peace River...

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement.

---Applause

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Members. Mr. Speaker, I was driving back from Peace River the other day. I have a two-and-a-half-year-old boy. He was colouring Spiderman in the truck. He had the crayon in has hand, Mr. Speaker, and he looked at the crayon and said, I want to smoke, I want to smoke. That really hit. That was really sore. Mr. Menicoche is so right. As leaders, we are role models. There are a huge number of smokers in the small communities. In that sense, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Minister for supporting me. I want to thank Mr. Menicoche for taking this challenge with me. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Public Commitment To Quit Smoking

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Good luck to your endeavours, as well. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Cleanup Of Con And Giant Mines

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 954

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to talk this afternoon too, about cleaning up our act. It is not quite as noble as my colleagues here, but the problem that I am looking at is one that has been around for a long time. That is the legacy that is left over after 60 years of gold mining here in the Yellowknife area. That is the ongoing saga of trying to seek some kind of approval to

the processes by which the Con and the Giant mines are going to be cleaned up.

Mr. Speaker, my other colleagues have spoken of this issue many times in this Assembly and in the past one. We continue to see a process whereby the Miramar Con Mine is undergoing a cleanup operation, but one which has received, unfortunately, far too little public exposure and opportunity for public input.

On the Giant Mine property, Mr. Speaker, at least on the surface cleanup, we are caught in what I understand is a very difficult jurisdictional argument between our government and the federal government over who has responsibility and liability for the surface cleanup of this very large and really unfortunate situation. So, Mr. Speaker, I am going to draw attention to that again. We really, in this day and age, should not be ignoring this or leaving it on the back burner.

It is probably tempting in an economy where there is so much other resource development going on, that we cannot lose sight of the fact that we have a responsibility to ourselves, to our children, and to the environment to do the right thing and clean up the mistakes of yesterday. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Cleanup Of Con And Giant Mines

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 955

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Staff Morale At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 955

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak again about the low morale at the North Slave Correctional Centre. Mr. Speaker, a veteran of 20 plus years at the correctional services contacted me over the weekend to tell me what so many others have told me already. That is that, in all this time at the North Slave Correction Centre, he can honestly say that he has never seen anything so bad in terms of low morale, sick leave abuse, forced overtime, problematic hiring practices, lack of support, inmate-staff confrontations, and assaults and micromanaging. Mr.

Speaker, it also appears that the vacancy rate of seven to 10 positions that the Minister gave in this House does not really tell the whole story. It is not just about the positions on paper, but actual bodies that are required in the facility.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that there are approximately 35 casual employees who are now filling in for vacancies of various capacities. All the case management teams are acting; therefore, they are covered off with casuals. There are many positions still not filled, including the four unit supervisors, one shift supervisor, cooks, nurses, and many correctional officers.

Approximately 20 to 30 staff have resigned in the last 10 months and, ironically, none of them have been asked to give exit interviews. This is one of the concerns to me as well, Mr. Speaker, because, in our briefing about the internal review that is going on, there seems to be very little emphasis on talking to those who are either let go or who resigned.

Mr. Speaker, it is also my information that the new facility requires 14 officers on a shift as opposed to only nine or 10 that were required in the old facility, but there have been no new increase in the staffing complement. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that even though the building is new, it actually requires more labour. It is much more labour-intensive. The Minister should consider revisiting the staffing complement to make sure that there are enough people to do the job.

Also, another problem is that even though the vacancy might not show as being high, a lot of positions on paper, the bodies are not there because they have been seconded or they are acting in other positions. They are on some kind of leave, they are on special leave, transfer assignments. So the Minister needs to really listen. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Staff Morale At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 955

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Ms. Lee .

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Staff Morale At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 955

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the Minister and the senior management that of the people who are talking to us, many of them I consider to be the kind of people that we call the salt of the earth. I don't just accept whatever everybody tells me. These are the people who have lived here for a long time; 26 or 30 years. They have worked in the correctional system. They know what they are talking about. I think it will do the Minister and the management a lot of good to listen to what is being said and try to enhance or improve the situation that they are going through. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Staff Morale At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 955

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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National Community Living Awareness Month

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 955

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, October has been designated as National Community Living Awareness Month. This is an extremely important campaign for the residents of the Northwest Territories as it encompasses national and local community living organizations working together to provide safe and healthy communities for families, adults and children with disabilities. Many of us take for granted everyday experiences like accessing local facilities, sending our children to neighbourhood schools and having the opportunity to contribute to our communities through work or volunteer activities. However, Mr.

Speaker, it is important to appreciate that there are people living in our communities who do not have the luxury of taking these things for granted. People living with disabilities are as determined as anyone else to be productive citizens and deserve to be treated as such.

Mr. Speaker, we are the losers when we fail to be inclusive in our schools, workplaces, organizations and communities. We can all take responsibility for ensuring people living with disabilities are protected from discrimination, have access to any support they need, participate in community life; and, most important, are made to feel welcome and valued. This month is a great opportunity to show appreciation for the work of volunteers, local, community and national organizations and people living with disabilities, who offer their skills and talents to our communities, schools and families.

While speaking on the subject of assisting people in need, I would like to take this opportunity to pay a special tribute and extend my thanks to Hay River resident Lillian Crook who has devoted time to bring together interested parties in an effort to form a community living program in the community of Hay River. This program is in the beginning stages; however, will be a great benefit to many people who have difficulties that prevent them from living without assistance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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National Community Living Awareness Month

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Michael Miltenberger . I would just like to ask the Minister how the government could knowingly allow the re-evaluation of nursing positions at Stanton Territorial Hospital to happen when they knew that it would result in wage segregation to the nurses at Stanton. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and Social Services of the Government of the Northwest Territories has a very competitive and, I think, progressive pay and benefits package for nurses. We see it as a very positive step, all the work that has gone on in the last number of years, the work with the nursing association and the work with the unions, the work with the government, to come up with a fair remuneration package. So the Member and I have a different point of view on the value and the benefits of that particular issue. Thank you.

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Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering, through you to the Minister, how, under the definition that I have been supplied by the department, does a float nurse, who is required to have the skills, knowledge and ability to work in various specialty areas, not earn as much as a nurse in a specialty area. That does not make sense to me, Mr. Speaker. I am just wondering if the Minister had an answer for that. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the intent here is to recognize the complexity of the work in different areas; that a nurse is not necessarily a nurse any more than a pilot is, or that doctors all seem to be the same or remunerated the same. In this case, that is a similar circumstance. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I mentioned in my Member's statement that this practice does not happen anywhere else in the country. I am just wondering, through you to the Minister, why is Stanton Territorial Hospital any different than the way they do this anywhere else across the country. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to think that the Northwest Territories is a very progressive jurisdiction as is the Stanton a very progressive hospital, but it is also my understanding that Newfoundland and P.E.I., as well, pay nurses in this similar way. Every other jurisdiction, in one way or another, recognizes that a nurse is not a nurse; that there are different levels. There are higher skill requirements in some areas. In the work that we did here as a government, no nurses' salaries went down, but there was a recognition, clearly, that there are some higher levels of skill requirements. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is all fine and good. However, I am just wondering at what value the Government of the Northwest Territories places on education and certification of nurses. From what the Minister said, there really is not a value on education and certification. That is how it is done in other jurisdictions, Mr. Speaker. I am just wondering, to the Minister, what value he places on education and certification for nursing professionals. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 956

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we place tremendous value on the nurses and their skills that they bring to the job, and that is recognized by the way they are paid, the amount they are paid, the value we place on them in terms of other benefits that we give them, the work that we've done to

update and modernize the Nursing Act, the way we've moved to bring in nurse practitioners, and the way we are going to move to incorporate LPNs as well. Mr. Speaker, I think the proof for us is demonstrated by our actions and the reality that is there today, when you look at how well nurses are compensated. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Question 291-15(3): Re-evaluation Of Nursing Positions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Honourable Brendan Bell , the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development and the caretaker of our environment. Mr. Speaker, as I referred in my statement, we are engaged in two processes regarding the cleanup of the two mines in Yellowknife. Both of them are underway under quite different circumstances. I would ask my first question, Mr.

Speaker, in relation to the Giant Mine situation and what I understand to be a jurisdictional dispute between ourselves and the federal government over who has responsibility and accountability for the cleanup of that property. The last time I believe we talked about this, the Minister was going to talk to his federal counterpart to see how we could progress. Has any progress been made? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member indicated, I was able to meet with the Minister of DIAND in Ottawa on September 1st and had a fair bit of discussion around the cleanup at Giant Mine. We discussed the issues in-depth and I was very impressed, he was well briefed on the file. He indicated that it was a priority for the department to see this cleanup move forward. The last time I stood in the House and answered the Member's questions in this regard, he had some concern about the level of dialogue, I believe, between our officials and DIAND officials.

I am getting weekly updates from my staff; we are having almost weekly meetings with our staff and their staff. Our deputy minister of the department has just recently met with the regional director general of DIAND to go through these. There are several outstanding issues of liability and responsibility on surface. Who is responsible for what is something that continues to nag. I have given direction to our staff to try to negotiate a bit of a cap in terms of financial exposure on our part so that we can move forward on cleaning this mess up.

I think if we decide that we want to resolve all of the potential outstanding liability and responsibility issues, we will be here for a long time.

I would rather see us start to clean this up and work those issues through as they arise, but the key to us being able to do this is having some understanding of what our potential financial exposure will be and we are working on that. Thank you.

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Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Are we going into this with a bottom line of some kind? The Minister has indicated that there might be a financial line there, but there are other things about the timing and the standards that will be set. Are these things also part of our negotiating approach? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, we are discussing all of those issues and we do, in our minds, have a financial bottom line. I don't want to disclose that here, obviously. We are negotiating these issues with the federal government, but clearly we see, by and large, a federal responsibility. Obviously, underground is entirely a federal responsibility, they have been the mining regulator of record for the life of that mine. On the surface there is some debate. We want to move this forward quickly. DIAND is proposing to come forward with a project description and an A and R plan. I think they will do that this fall and early spring.

We are going to participate in that. Really now it's timing, it is the timing that is imminent here. The real concern that we have, outside of this liability and responsibility question which I am willing to continue to work on, but to some degree park for the time being in order that we might get some sort of financial agreement, because I believe the most important thing is for us to start cleaning this thing up, sooner rather than later, and in order to do that we have to set aside some of these disputes. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the process going on on the other side of town at the Miramar property is quite different. I think there is more substance to it, in that under, I believe, the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board, there is a process by which the cleanup of that property has been broken down into, I understand, eight different components. There is a process underway to evaluate and approve. However, the public access to this process is quite limited. Can the Minister provide some information on the progress of that cleanup approval process? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 957

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member indicates, the A and R plan under the terms of the federal water licence is under review by the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board. They have formed a working group to review the draft plan put forward by the mine, by Miramar.

We are sitting on that working group and we also indicated our support for some public process. They have had public meetings and hearings on the draft A and R

plan. It is my understanding that Miramar has now taken some of that input and the recommendations from the working group. They have taken that away and are revising portions of their A and R plan and are proposing to come back before the water board with that revised plan. Thank you.

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Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Short supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, in news reports last week there was indication that the mine has missed some critical deadlines in this process. I won't go into the detail here, of course, but I would like to ask the Minister if our government is taking any notice of this and what pressures are we bringing to bear on either the process, or DIAND or the company to comply with rules that really have already been in place? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We believe that Miramar is out of compliance with their water licence because of the delays and, as a member of the working group, we were involved, obviously, when the chairperson of that group wrote a letter to Miramar Con Mine to advise them that they were in fact, in our minds, out of compliance with their water licence by not meeting the deadlines. We are waiting for a response from the company, but obviously we see it as being of paramount importance that we get some progress here, and are waiting for Miramar to respond. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Question 292-16(3): Responsibility For Cleanup Of Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Mr. Speaker, recently the Minister and I went to the Sahtu to talk about some of the housing issues in the Sahtu. I want to ask if the Minister could give me an update on the terms of the one seniors' facility in Deline that the people in the Sahtu would like to see open. Thank you.

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Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , the Honourable Mr. Krutko .

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Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a care facility in Deline that has been unoccupied for some time. We have put a proposal to the community to come back with something in writing, if they can find another use for it. We are talking to people within the department, from the Department of Health and also if there are any non-government organizations interested in making use of that facility, we are open to offers. So we have put an offer out there, we haven't heard anything back to date, so the offer is still there. So that is where it sits today.

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Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister inform the House here as to some sort of a time frame that they would make a decision on it with the community of Deline, in terms of the uses of that facility? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is not the only facility that we are having problems with in regard to occupancy. It has been unoccupied for some time. We still continue to pay the operational costs of this facility. This is one of the items that have been put forward to the government by way of doing an assessment of all of our capital assets that have less than 30 percent occupancy. So we are putting the word out there that we want people to be aware this facility is available. Again, the corporation is definitely looking for someone to let us know if they are interested so we can dispose of this asset so it can be used for other functions besides a care facility.

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Further Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister provide the House with the reports of the assessments? He mentioned they are doing assessments of less than 30 percent occupancy of those types of facilities that they are responsible for. Would he provide this House with the report within the time frame? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I should be able to acquire that information and get it to the Member so he is aware of other facilities we're talking about. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 958

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I look forward to that assessment report from the Minister. Also, would the Minister provide this House with a timetable that he is going to work with the Minister of Health and Social Services in terms of seeing what type of occupancy that the people in Deline can look forward to in terms of occupying that seniors facility and that they can at least

have some decisions as to where to go next with that facility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in case the Members don't know, this facility was developed as a long-term care facility for the Sahtu and because the Sahtu is now in the process of establishing their own regional health board, there is still going to be a need for programs and services to be delivered in the Sahtu. So that's sort of where the discussion is at, that that facility still has the ability to provide services for the Sahtu region. So that's what the department or the regional health board is open to. That's sort of the dialogue that has taken place today. We are still open to use that facility for what the purpose was. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Question 293-15(3): Update On The Seniors Facility In Deline

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't know what to pursue today, maybe I'll just continue on with my Member's statement. To the Minister of Justice , Mr. Speaker, on the issue surrounding low morale problems and high vacancy rate and high overtime and such, I see two problems there. One is that I don't think there's recognition on the part of the Minister, he's never admitted or acknowledged that there is any kind of problem and the more he says that, the more our phone lines and our e-mails and everything is burning up because people are getting really, really frustrated.

The second thing is the more we ask questions to the Minister and the department about these problems, the answer keeps coming back saying well, it's because there is a transition going on at the centre and whenever there is transition there are problems with change. That seems to not be the one that people are accepting either. They don't believe that is the problem. They have no problem accepting that. It's a whole lot of things. Mr.

Speaker, one thing that keeps coming up is the fact that the warden of the correctional centre is related to a senior manager in the department and I'm very uncomfortable with this idea. This is a very small town and these are very good people, I'm sure they are doing a good job. I want to know from the Minister, to assure the people out there, what steps have been taken to ensure that there's no direct supervisory link. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister of Justice , the Honourable Mr. Dent .

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Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I am not prepared to address that kind of question in this House. I would submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that this issue has been addressed in this House where a person is named in this House who has no possibility of representing themselves here, and I believe that in the past the Speaker has ruled that that is not admissible. I believe that this is the same situation, because we have now identified two individuals very clearly and they have no way of addressing that in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The Chair will remind Members to not make reference to specific individuals in the House who are not here. The Chair did think that that question was slightly not related to the individuals in particular but, Ms. Lee , I will allow you a supplementary.

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Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I totally appreciate what the Minister is saying and it is something that I have been thinking about for many months, many weeks now. It is true; I am giving the Minister an opportunity to explain what is happening in the department. It hasn't anything to do with the individuals. I am telling the Minister that there are concerns, and I want him to explain to the House what he has done as Minister of Justice to make sure that all is in good order. It's true; those two employees can't explain themselves.

I'm giving the Minister an opportunity to explain that everything is fine and that there are measures in place so that relatives are not reporting to each other and I think that's important. We live in a...

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Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

What is your question, Ms. Lee ? I didn't hear a question there, Ms. Lee . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question was what has the Minister done as a Minister to make sure that there is no perception or occurrence of anything wrong going on? I think he could explain that because it's his department, it's his employees...

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Supplementary To Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee , there was a question there. The honourable Minister of Justice , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I have outlined on many occasions in this House that there is an independent review of human resource practices that has been undertaken by corporate human resources to examine the practices across the Department of Justice. That will be completed within the next couple of weeks and that will identify whether or not there are any systemic problems with human resources in the department, particularly within corrections. If they identify any problems -- and I said if they identify any problems -- then the department will move to address them. At this point, Mr.

Speaker, I have no inside knowledge that there are problems. I believe that the issues are being raised by individuals, and I do believe that a majority of the staff in corrections are satisfied with their jobs and the way in which the department is running. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 959

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure that this issue can be explained by a review. I really would think

that it would be better for the Minister to explain what sorts of steps are in place to make sure that these two people can do their jobs independently and not be accused of interference, because I think that would be in their benefit as well. The second thing, Mr. Speaker, he talked about an internal review...

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Supplementary To Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 294-15(3): Issues At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . You keep referring to two individuals. The Chair is going to rule that question out of order.

---Ruled Out of Order

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is in reference to my statement earlier today to the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , the Honourable Brendan Bell . In light of the recent developments along the Ingraham Trail with our discovery of more meat wastage by some hunters that are violating the Wildlife Act, I want to ask the Minister a simple question that if the department has taken steps or does plan on taking steps on increasing the presence of renewable resource officers along the Ingraham Trail to ensure public safety for residents who are living or hiking or hunting along the trail? Thank you.

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Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First, I want to give the Member every assurance that we have wildlife officers and the department has wildlife officers in all the regions, and we believe they do a very good job of enforcing the regulations under the Wildlife Act. We acknowledge that it is a difficult job. It's a vast territory and admittedly we don't have as many wildlife officers as we would like to, but we are constrained by resources.

We were both surprised and, I suppose, concerned that barren ground caribou arrived so soon so close to Yellowknife and on the Ingraham Trail; concerned about the safety of people if in fact there is hunting from the road, which is not allowed. We are making sure that it is a priority of our regional staff to enforce the provisions under the Wildlife Act that speak to hunting from the road and speak to meat wastage. It is very important for us to remain in control of the situation and we do it in a couple of ways, both through enforcement, but also probably more importantly through public education. Thank you.

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Return To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd have to agree with the Minister that it is a vast territory and with the limited amount of officers we have, they each have a lot of area to cover. I notice that the migratory route is through this area of the barren land caribou and some years they don't show up until late in season and some years they are close to town, other years they are quite a ways away. Because this doesn't happen every year and it only happens for a couple of months out of the year, why doesn't the department, to ensure public safety, have a renewable resource officer or officers there on a 24-hour basis? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to admit I don't know the hours that the officers are keeping in terms of monitoring and enforcement out on the Ingraham Trail. That is certainly some information that I can get and bring back to the Member. I guess the other point I would make is that we do see this as a priority, and obviously we are having discussion as a government and discussion with committee on an ongoing basis through the business planning process, and the issue of wildlife officers is very similar to environmental protection officers. We know we need more of them.

It's simply a matter of getting the resources to put more in the field, and then also making sure we're making the best use of the personnel that we do have in the field regionally. So it is a priority for us. We are working on it and if the Member has any suggestions from his constituents about steps we need to be taking along the Ingraham Trail now that the caribou have clearly come down below the treeline, then I urge him to contact my office and we can certainly sit down and talk through those issues. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I commend the Minister for making this a priority of the department to ensure that the public is always safe along that Ingraham Trail, especially with all the wildlife that is going through there right now. With regard to the renewable resource officer human resource capacity in that area, I know that we're fairly limited with the amount of officers that we do have, but I know that this time of year is fairly slow in the whole renewable resource sector, I guess. People aren't out on the water as often and people don't go hunting until the ice usually forms and stuff.

So I want to encourage the Minister that when he does do some research into the department hours of the renewable resource officers, if they aren't there on a 24-hour basis for the next couple of months, maybe they should implement that new policy for this particular circumstance. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Question 295-15(3): Enforcement By Wildlife Officers Along Ingraham Trail

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

I didn't hear a question there, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 960

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Justice . It wasn't so long ago that we were very happy in Hay River to find out that with the retirement of Chief Justice Robert Halifax that, in fact, upon his retirement and departure that the Department of Justice agreed to

have a resident judge in Hay River. I was just wondering if the Minister of Justice could update us, Mr. Speaker, on what the status is of that judge relocating to Hay River. Thank you.

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Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Minister of Justice , the Honourable Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since I have heard nothing to indicate, I would expect that Justice Schmaltz is expecting to take up residence in Hay River no later than April 1, 2005, which was the stipulation when she was offered the position. Thank you.

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Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further, for the benefit of my constituents, I wonder if the Minister could share with us what the rationale was for postponing the move to Hay River for one year. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the rationale was that it would allow the new justice a chance to learn from her colleagues, to spend some time working with them and, in other words, having discussions after circuits and becoming more and more conversant with the role that she would be fulfilling. That would allow some time for some of that development to take place. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to know if there are any support positions associated with this judge's position that would either be coming to Hay River or that exist in Hay River now that would stay there as a result of the judge coming to Hay River. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In terms of that position, I guess I should be cautious. I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe that there is one support position directly for the judge that is tied to that. I suspect that the position is already in Hay River, but I would have to confirm that for the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I think that's everything. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Question 296-15(3): Status Of Resident Judge In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to pick up where I left off with questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services . I'd like the Minister to explain why an LPN at Stanton can earn more than a registered nurse under the new re-evaluation that's in place at Stanton. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that the highest end of the LPN classification is that it's not classified higher than the starting salary of a nurse, so I'd have to look at the specifics. Thank you.

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Return To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to assure the Minister that that is indeed the case at Stanton, where, as I mentioned in my Member's statement, a lady went back to school, had been an LPN for 20 years and now she's an RN, and there are LPNs at Stanton earning more than she is as a registered nurse, Mr. Speaker. What steps are being taken to ensure that nurses who are working and getting paid in the specialty areas have the skills, knowledge and abilities to be there, Mr. Speaker? Can the Minister answer that question? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the jobs have been classified, the job descriptions rewritten with the skills, requirements and the education in an outline, and it's my assumption that people in those positions meet those requirements. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 961

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let's say for all things being equal, two grads from the

Aurora College Northern Nursing Program, one goes into obstetrics and one goes into surgery. They have the same skill set, they just got out of college. One gets paid more because she's in obstetrics than the other one in surgery, Mr. Speaker. What is Stanton doing to make sure that the nurses that are coming into the specialty areas have the skills, the certification and the knowledge to get paid and to be in that specialty area? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Question 297-15(3): Levels Of Pay For Nurses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 962

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you