Debates of March 30th, 1992

This is page numbers 504 - 532 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Ministers' Statement 48-12(2): Minister's Absence From The House

Ministers' Statement 49-12(2): Community Name Changes

Success Of Caribou Carnival 1992

Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Abortions At Stanton Yellowknife Hospital

Cutbacks At Victor Sammurtok School, Chesterfield Inlet

Hockey Match Results

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Supplementary Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O446-12(2): Type Of Pain Relievers Used In Abortions

Question O447-12(2): Advice Of Legislature In Review Of Stanton Hospital

Question O448-12(2): Intention To Seek Advice Of Medical Professionals In Other Hospitals

Question O449-12(2): Number Of Abortions Performed In Nwt

Question O450-12(2): Patients Who Do Not Want Pain Relief

Question O451-12(2): Quick Solutions Derived From Independent Review On Abortions

Question O452-12(2): Purpose Of Meeting With Mr. Siddon

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

W27-12(2): Community Employment Officers

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Third Reading Of Bill 25: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1991-92

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Hon. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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--- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 504

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Monday, March 30, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Ministers' Statement 48-12(2): Minister's Absence From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 504

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. John Ningark will be absent from the House today to attend a regional meeting in Cambridge Bay on the plebiscite.

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Ministers' Statement 48-12(2): Minister's Absence From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 504

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ministers' statements. Mr. Allooloo .

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Ministers' Statement 49-12(2): Community Name Changes

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 504

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

It is with pleasure that I rise to announce that cabinet has approved requests from two Northwest Territories communities to change their names. On July 1, 1992 Spence Bay will officially become Taloyoak, and Snowdrift will officially become Lutselk'e.

A majority of the residents of Spence Bay signed a petition requesting that the traditional name for their community be officially approved. The name "Taloyoak," which means "caribou blind," was the name for the area before the community was established and has remained in use by the Inuit despite the existence of the name Spence Bay.

Mr. Speaker, the Lutsel K'e Dene Band passed a resolution requesting that the official name of Snowdrift be changed to Lutselk'e, the name which has been used for their area since long before the community was established. Lutselk'e means the place of the lutsel, which is a small fish common in the waters of the area.

It is our hope that all the people of the Northwest Territories and of Canada will begin to use these traditional names and in doing so help to preserve the history, culture and language of northern people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Ministers' Statement 49-12(2): Community Name Changes

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 504

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to recognize Norma Kassie, MLA for Old Crow in the Yukon, who is with us here today.

--Applause

Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Success Of Caribou Carnival 1992

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 504

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to congratulate the literally hundreds of participants, volunteers, sponsors and spectators that made this year's Caribou Carnival an unqualified success. This year's carnival proved so extremely popular, Mr. Speaker, that organizers report that attendance topped 5000 people between noon and 5:00 o'clock in the afternoon, Friday.

Mr. Speaker, although 300 to 400 volunteers were involved to one extent or another, special credit is deserved by Caribou Carnival Association: president, Jackie Coulther-O'Connor; past president, Bill Braden; treasurer, Brenda Donick; secretary, Michelle Andersen; and directors Marty Brown, Rob Roycroft, Jamie Watts, Katherine Robinson and Larry Babiuk, as well as staff members Melissa Daoust and David Radcliffe.

Of course, Mr. Speaker, the stars of the Caribou Carnival are the dog mushers who travel from across Canada and the United States to participate in the Canadian Championship Dog Derby. Members of the Yellowknife Rotary Club also deserve special credit for yet another superb job of managing the races.

I would like to extend special congratulations to Grant Beck of Yellowknife on his defence of his title of Champion in the Canadian Championship Dog Derby. Mr. Beck won this year's three-day championship with an overall time of 11 hours 52 minutes and 28 seconds.

The 12 contestants for Caribou Carnival queen and princess also deserve mention for the approximately $29,000 they raised from ticket sales. Congratulations to Vi Beck on her win as Carnival Queen, and to Carnival Princess Valerie Fillion who is a lifelong resident of Yellowknife and a grade nine student at St. Patrick's High School.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that Caribou Carnival is getting better and better every year. Thank you.

--- Applause

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Success Of Caribou Carnival 1992

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 504

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Member's statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 504

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to address a public concern over the recent letter of support I wrote on behalf of Sandy Sanderson, who is a student at our campus in Fort Smith.

The intention of the letter was to describe the character of this individual. It was at no time my intention to influence the justice system in any way, shape or form. Further, it was at no time intended to influence the courts or to indicate that I condone violence against women.

Unfortunately, these letters from political leaders were used to request an absolute discharge for an assault charge encountered by Sandy Sanderson. I know that if I had been asked for such a letter to be used in such a manner, I would not have written it. I also know, from the senior Mr. Sanderson, that if they had known these letters were to be used in this manner, under no uncertain circumstances would they have requested these letters describing the character of their son. It was stated by Mr. Sanderson, and I quote, "We never would have placed any individual in such a position." Knowing the honest person that he is, I believe him.

Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize to my constituents that I do not condone violence against women, nor do I condone violence against men or violence against a family. As a woman, I would not tolerate any type of violent actions against myself, nor any other woman.

Mr. Speaker, I would now like to read the letter that I wrote describing Sandy Sanderson and his home environment, dated January 16th:

"To whom it may concern: I am pleased to provide my personal views in support of my constituent, Sandy Sanderson. I have known Sandy Sanderson since he was born, and I know that as a youth growing up, he was always considerate and helpful.

"I recall Sandy working in the Legislative Assembly during sessions and recognize that he was an individual who was always willing to assist Members in their requests. The attitude that he displayed was one of a very courteous, mature and pleasant individual.

"In addition, I know that he has been provided with a very positive and caring family environment during his years of growth. His parents, Bob and Jean Sanderson, are a couple I have known all of my life. They have a very pleasant and positive attitude towards life, and I have always known them to be helpful to the less fortunate and considerate to individuals."

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Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell , your time has expired.

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Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent from Members to conclude my Member's statement.

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Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, please.

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Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you. "There is no doubt in my mind that one of their most important goals in life is to ensure their children are brought up with a secure, healthy and spiritual atmosphere.

"I realize Sandy was recently in conflict with the law; however, the situation does not deter me from expressing my opinion."

This is the letter that I submitted on behalf of Sandy Sanderson. Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize, again, that my letter was intended to describe the character of the family and of the individual. It is clear from my letter that this is what I have done.

It is my hope that my constituents take the time to understand and believe that it will not deter me from my stand; that I do not condone violence against women, men or the family; nor will it diminish my ability to ensure that the issue of violence against women will not be overlooked in this Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I do want to indicate that I have learned a very valuable lesson from the comments and criticisms about my actions. I will be careful and cautious, and give more consideration to my letters of support in the future.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Members for taking the time to listen, and my constituents, in particular, for taking the time to understand. Thank you.

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Letter Of Reference For Sandy Sanderson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Ms. Mike .

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Abortions At Stanton Yellowknife Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to acknowledge the courage of Ms. Ellen Hamilton of Iqaluit. Ms. Hamilton is a woman who was taken into Stanton Yellowknife Hospital for a therapeutic abortion. She was subjected to unreasonable and unacceptable levels of pain and discomfort as a result of hospital surgical procedures. Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely offensive that any woman should have to endure the sort of experience which Ms. Hamilton was subjected to.

Mr. Speaker, there has been a concern that women all across Canada have too often found themselves feeling as though professional people have failed to treat them properly or listen to their wishes. This, I believe, is a reflection both of the arrogance which underlies much of professional community and of the way society undervalues women's ability to make their own choices.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that Ms. Hamilton took a bold and courageous step when she came forward to disclose her mistreatment at the hands of the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital. This is not only something that happened to Ms. Hamilton. The Status of Women has received a large number of comments from other women who have felt abused by the procedures employed by the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital when performing abortions. I applaud these women for coming forward. I think it is important that they should feel supported and understood in raising their concerns.

I may say that I am dismayed by the way the hospital board and its medical professional personnel seem to be more interested in denying the significance of these reports in trying to justify the procedures, questioning the accuracy of women's statements and hiding behind the veil of their professional jargon and positions. Instead, they would be better advised to listen to their female patients and to put their energies into correcting these problems, rather than being defensive about them. It think it is important that the women of the Northwest Territories should feel comfortable in standing up to southern trained professionals...

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Abortions At Stanton Yellowknife Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

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Abortions At Stanton Yellowknife Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Ms. Mike .

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Abortions At Stanton Yellowknife Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 505

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it is important that women of the Northwest Territories should feel comfortable in standing up to southern-trained professionals when we feel as though we have not received the most appropriate treatment, and I would hope that the actions of the women who have come forward can serve as models for each of us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

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Abortions At Stanton Yellowknife Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 506

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Mr. Arvaluk .

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Cutbacks At Victor Sammurtok School, Chesterfield Inlet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 506

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the special CEC meeting held on February 18, Mr. Rob Anderson informed Chesterfield Inlet that Victor Sammurtok School would be reduced from five teacher positions to four, and that the number of classroom assistants would be reduced from 2.0 to 1.5, due to fiscal restraint being imposed on the approved budget.

In reviewing the funding formula as issued by the Department of Education, Chesterfield Inlet discovered that, based on 83 students, the enrolment in Victor Sammurtok School as of September 30, 1991, the community is entitled to 4.37 teachers based on the ratio of one teacher to 19 students. Chesterfield Inlet is further entitled under formula funding to .5 student support teachers. This adds up to a total of 4.87 teachers which should be rounded, according to common department practice, to 5.0 teachers, not the 4.0 that the community were told they would have.

Mr. Speaker, because of the time allotted, I will be pursuing this further with the Department of Education during the question period. Welcome back to the House, Mr. Minister.

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Cutbacks At Victor Sammurtok School, Chesterfield Inlet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 506

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Mr. Gargan .

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Hockey Match Results

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 506

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to inform this House of the courageous performance given by the L.A. Senators in an exhibition hockey match with the Yellowknife Media All Stars during Caribou Carnival. Mr. Speaker, the L.A. Senators played the Media All Stars to a nine-nine tie, although the goal in the dying seconds was disallowed which would have given us a glorious victory. Unlike basketball, Mr. Speaker, it appears that in hockey any shots that are made before the final buzzer do not count.

I should point out that the L.A. Senators were leading for most of the game. However, the Media All Stars used its usual tactics of waiting for the perfect opportunity to irritate the politicians. The media waited until we were tired and overconfident, and then they struck.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate our face-off specialist, Ms. Rebecca Mike , for winning almost every face-off she took.

--- Applause

I would also like to congratulate the Hon. Dennis Patterson for restraining himself. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister did not deal out any vicious checks to either his teammates or his opponents.

--- Laughter

Mr. Speaker, I would like to mention that if an NHL players' strike occurs, the L.A. Senators are ready and willing to fill in.

Finally, I would like to mention that it is agreed by the media and the Members that we would keep this cup here in your office for six months, and the media will then take it for the next six months. I would also like to thank Roy Dahl for organizing this historic event, and I would hope we continue that event again. Thank you.

---Applause

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Hockey Match Results

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 506

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I think we are seeing the beginning of a tradition. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question O368-12(2): Government Employees Holding Business Licences

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 506

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

I have a return to Question O368-12(2) asked by Mr. Gargan on March 25, 1992. We are aware that people working in the public service hold business licences to operate other businesses. These people have permission under the rules in the public service regulations. The rules are that no employee shall carry on any business or employment outside the public service in which

a) the employee exploits unduly and for personal gain, acquaintance with other employees or persons with whom the employee has become acquainted in the course of employment in the public service;

b) there may be a conflict between the duties the employee is required to perform in that business or employment and the duties the employee is required to perform in the public service; or

c) the employee makes unauthorized use of information acquired as a result of employment in the public service or of property or facilities owned by Her Majesty in the right of Canada or the Government of the NWT.

Employees are required to notify their deputy minister if they wish to carry on any outside business or employment. The deputy minister will deny permission if one of these rules is broken.

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Return To Question O73-12(2): Housing For Hamlet Staff, Resolute Bay

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 506

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

This in return to Question O73-12(2), asked on February 20th by Mr. Pudluk . The Government of the Northwest Territories made a commitment to the Resolute Bay Hamlet Council in 1987 that a staff house would be turned over to the hamlet when one became available. The Departments of Personnel and Public Works have been attempting to locate a house in Resolute Bay which could be given to the hamlet to allow them to house a mechanic. Unfortunately, there is no vacant staff housing in the community, and this situation is not likely to improve in the next year.

As an alternative, the government is considering the conversion of one of the larger houses into a duplex. This house would then accommodate two employees who now live in separate houses. Unfortunately, the house needs a lot of work and the capital funding is not available in 1992-93 to do the job. No new staff housing units are being built next year, and this means that it is unlikely that we will be able to help the hamlet until 1993-94 at the earliest.

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Further Return To Question O334-12(2): Policy On Sale Of Government-owned Staff Houses

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 506

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

This is in return to Question O334-12(2), asked by Mr. Koe on March 24th. Under the short-term housing sale program, the Department of Personnel, in conjunction with the Department of Public Works, has received 35 offers from employees for the purchase of government staff housing. Eleven of these bids were accepted: one in Inuvik; one in Norman Wells; one in Coppermine; three in Rankin Inlet; three in Fort Smith; and two in Fort Simpson. The employees are currently in the process of completing their financing. The long-term strategy sale in Yellowknife, Fort Smith and Hay River has not reached an offer stage.

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Return To Question O340-12(2): Government Houses For Sale In Inuvik

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 506

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

This is a reply to Question O340-12(2), asked by Mr. Koe on March 24th. The short-term sale program allowed employees who responded positively to a 1989 housing survey to bid on government staff houses. Under this program, 69 staff housing units were appraised and offered for sale in the Inuvik Region. Thirteen bids were received from employees: 10 from Inuvik; two from Norman Wells; and one from Tuktoyaktuk. Of these bids, two were accepted by the government: one from Inuvik and one from Norman Wells. At this point no further houses are for sale in Inuvik.

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Return To Question O340-12(2): Government Houses For Sale In Inuvik

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson .

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Further Return To Question O410-12(2): Response To Question Re Status Of Community Hall, Sanikiluaq

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three responses. The first is a return to Question O410-12(2), asked by Mr. Pudlat March 3, 1992, and raised again Friday. Mr. Speaker, this return was previously made on March 4, 1992, in response to Question O212-12(2) asked by the Member.

A community hall for Sanikiluaq is not currently in the department's capital forecasting plan. A number of years ago the community was asked whether they wanted a new arena or community hall, and they chose an arena as their priority. The Department of Education had plans at that time for the construction of a gymnasium. The new gymnasium was completed in 1988. The new arena is-currently scheduled for completion in 1994-95. With the community receiving these two facilities, it is unlikely the department will be able to include construction of a community hall in our budget in the foreseeable future.

However, the design and siting of the new arena will allow for the future addition of a community hall when it becomes feasible.

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Return To Question O296-12(2): GNWT Contributions To Workers' Compensation Board

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

This is a return to Question O296-12(2), asked by Mrs. Marie Jewell on March 9th. Mr. Speaker, the following breakdown of assessment revenue is based on the 1990 audited financial statements and not 1991, as that audit has not been completed and approved by the Auditor General's office. The order of breakdown is from highest to lowest by industry class, and perhaps I will just recite the percentage:

Construction, 26.30 per cent; mining, 20.70 per cent; transportation and communication utilities, 14.13 per cent; public administration, GNWT, 10.03 per cent; services, which includes business and professional services, hotels, motels, camp caterers, security, janitorial services, et cetera, 9.70 per cent; public administration, other, 6.97 per cent; oil and gas, 6.29 per cent; trades, 5.35 per cent; renewable resources, .53 per cent. Total revenue, $19,714,000, at 100 per cent. So the GNWT assessment for 1990 comprised 10.03 per cent of the total revenue for that year.

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Further Return To Question O51-12(2): Retraining Injured Workers Through Workers' Compensation Board

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

This is a return to Question O51-12(2), asked by Mr. Todd on February 17th. The Workers' Compensation Board is unable to provide actual dollars spent on rehabilitation in the South as the accounting system does not track the distribution of moneys spent on rehabilitation by worker's residency. Based on the assumption that 65 per cent of workers reside in the South after injury, it is estimated that they consume up to 65 per cent of moneys spent on rehabilitation. Rehabilitation includes retraining.

Using this estimate, of the $2.5 million spent on rehabilitation in 1991, up to $1.9 million was expended in the South. Of this amount, 66 per cent was paid out in rehabilitation benefits such as home modification, independence aids, tools, vehicle modification, special financial assistance, residential aid, relocation allowance, excluding compensation payments and medical aid costs.

The remaining costs represent expenditures such as payment of academic training, provision of vocational assessment, work conditioning and counselling services, to name but a few. For northern workers, unfortunately these services are non-existent in the North and for the most part have to be purchased in the South. It is estimated that the rehabilitation division had to spend up to $200,000 last year in sending northern residents south for rehabilitation programs. Whenever possible, they have tried to import the expertise on a case by case basis to minimize cost to family disruption.

These rehabilitation costs exclude the cost of early medical treatment and expense of travelling south for surgery and specialized medical opinions. The board's goal is to have the injured worker return to the workplace as quickly as possible as it will reduce long-term claim and compensation costs. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O51-12(2): Retraining Injured Workers Through Workers' Compensation Board

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question O280-12(2): Status Of The Nwt Business Loans Board

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I have three returns. The first was asked by Mr. Koe on March 6th, 1992, regarding the status of the NWT Business Loans Board, Mr. Speaker. On October 1, 1991, when the new Business Credit Corporation Act was proclaimed and the Business Loans and Guarantees Act was rescinded, the directors of the Business Loans Fund Board resigned, and a new slate of directors was appointed.

Since the size of the new board was reduced from 12 to nine, and since several of the directors held positions on other boards, some changes were made.

The new board of directors consists of: Mary King of Hay River; Anthony Chang and Stephen Hurst of Yellowknife; Allan Woodhouse and Thomas Webster of lqaluit; Mark Kalluak of Arviat; Gordon Peters of Holman Island; Wilfred Wilcox of Cambridge Bay; and Rod Hardy of Fort Norman.

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Further Return To Question O174-12(2): Deferral Of Large Capital Contracts

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

John Pollard

Hay River

The second one, Mr. Chairman, was asked by Mr. Zoe on February 27th concerning the deferral of large capital contracts. Although no formal policy exists on informing communities and Members of the Legislative Assembly of deferrals or delays to large capital projects, it is the practice of Ministers and departments to inform communities when such deferrals or delays occur.

To increase the involvement of communities and MLAs in the capital planning process, the government has implemented process changes that formally provide for community and MLA input at set points in the process. These points are at the outset of the planning process and at the time when draft department capital plans are completed.

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Return To Question O293-12(2): Number Of Trees Required To Make One Million Board Feet

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 507

John Pollard

Hay River

The third one, Mr. Speaker, was asked by Mr. Antoine on March 9, 1992, regarding the number of trees required to make one million board feet. On average, Mr. Speaker, 10,000 to 12,000 trees are required to produce one million board feet of lumber. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question O293-12(2): Number Of Trees Required To Make One Million Board Feet

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O189-12(2): Highway Patrol Operations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to Question O189-12(2), asked by Mr. Gargan on February 27, 1992, regarding highway patrol operations. On Thursday, February 27, 1992, the Member for Deh Cho asked me on what day of the week motor transport officers conduct mobile patrols on the highways.

The day that motor transport officers are out on mobile patrol results from their rotating shift schedule. Their first responsibility is to keep the weigh scale open for truck inspections. The shift

schedule for each officer is six shifts on duty and two days off, followed by another six shifts on and three days off. The six and two, six and three shift

schedule does not match the seven day calendar week. In this way, the one day in six an officer is assigned to patrol duty always changes as the officer keeps repeating the shift cycle.

With the department's present staff of six highway transport officers stations in Hay River, the Member should expect that on most days of the seven-day week, there is one officer out on an eight-hour shift of patrol duty. As I explained, because of the rotating shift schedule, the day when there is no patrol is always changing.

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Return To Question O254-12(2): Status Of Management Board At Akaitcho Hall

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I have another return, to Question O254-12(2), asked by Mr. Gargan on March 4, 1992, concerning the status of the management board at Akaitcho Hall. While it is true that there have been a number of different people supervising Akaitcho Hall during the past few years, the advisory board has always had the support of the Department of Education. Recently, due to a change in staffing assignments, responsibility for Akaitcho Hall has been assigned to the operations, training and development division. The former director of board development, who had been working with the Akaitcho Hall board, has taken on the position of director of curriculum services.

The director of operations, training and development is presently working with Akaitcho Hall administration and the advisory board to improve procedures and staff guidelines for the supervision and care of students. Staff job descriptions will be carefully examined to ensure that their responsibilities are stated clearly. The department will also conduct a full operational review of the Akaitcho Hall residence in May 1992.

The review will locus on all aspects of operation including the goals and objectives of the residence, training of staff, recreation and weekend activity programs for students, student leave procedures and student support and participation in the operation of the residence.

The Akaitcho Hall Advisory Board will be fully involved in this review. The preliminary planning with board members will take place during the next few weeks. Thank you.

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Return To Question O254-12(2): Status Of Management Board At Akaitcho Hall

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question O409-12(2): Salary Increase For Nwt Power Corporation Employees

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to Question O409-12(2), asked by Mr. Dent on March 27th, on whether or not the senior employees of the NWT Power Corporation had just received a 10 per cent salary increase. The employees of the NWT Power Corporation have received no salary increase since April 1, 1991, at which time the increase was 5.02 per cent. The salaries of the chairman, president and vice-presidents decreased January 1, 1992. The corporation is presently preparing for bargaining with the Union of Northern Workers for the fiscal year 1992-93. The current contract expires March 31, 1992.

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Return To Question O409-12(2): Salary Increase For Nwt Power Corporation Employees

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O209-12(2): Directive Regarding Abstinence Clause

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

I have three returns. The first was asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 26, 1992. The sobriety clause was intended to apply to alcohol and drug workers who are responsible for counselling and treating people with alcohol and drug problems. These workers are expected to abstain from the consumption of alcohol because of the very important role modelling that they must maintain in order to be effective counsellors.

The department officials do not provide counselling services. They have other responsibilities and therefore function with other expectations. Nevertheless, as public servants they are expected to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with their positions and in keeping with the collective agreement. The matter of a directive for department officials is not being considered, as it is not viewed as necessary.

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Further Return To Question O323-12(2): Liability Insurance For Young Offenders' Group Home, Inuvik

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

This is a return to Question O323-12(2), asked by Mr. Koe on March 12th, on whether or not the Department of Social Services could extend the closing date for proposals that had already been submitted. Mr. Speaker, I gave this return the same day the question was asked, just before the House adjourned. However, I wish to repeat it for the Member's benefit. As well, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Arvaluk asked Question O412-12(2) on Friday as to when this reply would be coming.

The closing date for proposals was March 13th. In light of concerns expressed by the honourable Member, I checked into it, and I would like to inform the Member that the department was instructed to extend the closing date by seven days. This will give plenty of time to inform the persons who already submitted proposals and have that concern of the method of obtaining the necessary insurance coverage.

As I explained, it had been delivered that very day, and I checked into it and everything had been taken care of satisfactorily.

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Further Return To Question O214-12(2): Mistakes In Beatty Report Re Health Service In Fort Simpson

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 508

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

This is a return to Question O214-12(2), asked by Mr. Antoine . On March 2, 1992 the Honourable Member for Nahendeh quoted mistakes in the Strength at Two Levels report regarding health services in Fort Simpson and asked me to assure the House that funding for the physician in Fort Simpson would not be eliminated.

Consideration of the Strength at Two Levels recommendations regarding health services will be based on current and accurate information. Plans for medical and other services and for facilities in Fort Simpson are the subject of the review process currently under way. I do not want to prejudge the outcome of any assessment at this stage, but I can assure the honourable Member that additional consultation will take place prior to any decisions being made. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O214-12(2): Mistakes In Beatty Report Re Health Service In Fort Simpson

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health . Last Thursday, I asked the Minister of Health , recognizing that medical procedures used at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital subject women to unnecessary pain during a procedure, and recognizing that the Minister of Health is initiating a review, if he would consider directing his department to develop a directive which would eliminate unnecessary pain which is imposed upon women who have abortion procedures taken through the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital.

The Minister at that point had indicated, "Yes." I would like to know whether or not the Minister can assure this House that the directive has been implemented.

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Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Health , Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I replied that I do not think I could tell the doctors what to do. I think the physicians have met and agreed to deal with the matter of pain control. Mr. Speaker, I have been advised by the hospital that abortion patients will now be provided with control over the amount of additional pain control medication they receive through the use of a self-administered rapidacting, inhalant analgesic.

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Return To Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Question O438-12(2): Implementation Of Departmental Directive Re Eliminating Unnecessary Pain During Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to ask the Minister of Health if, after reviewing much of the media reports that have been available to him and some of the comments made to him by medical practitioners who provide services in the area of proper procedures for abortions, whether or not the Minister is prepared to allow for a public hearing or inquiry into general procedures for this medical procedure in the Northwest Territories.

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Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not think a public review would serve any purpose. I believe I have asked for an independent review of the procedures that are taking place here at Stanton Yellowknife Hospital with respect to the performing of abortions. I believe that will provide the public with the information that is currently being sought.

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Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a supplementary question for the Minister of Health . In light of all the complaints that have come forward within the last week, why is the Minister not prepared to allow a general inquiry to hear the concerns of the women of the Northwest Territories?

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Supplementary To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I am very concerned with this matter, as is the public. I want this issue resolved, as well. I immediately took steps to have the Stanton board of management initiate the review. I think this will bring out all of the concerns that are out there about the issue at hand.

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Further Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, how does the Minister of Health see that an independent, private review is going to hear from the women of the Northwest Territories and the concerns they have about this particular procedure?

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Supplementary To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the intention is to get the independent review undertaken as soon as possible. Mr. Speaker, I think that all the concerns will be heard by the independent review group. Their recommendations will be made public.

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Further Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health how he is going have input from medical practitioners about the particular process or procedure, now that it is to be considered by the independent, private review.

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Supplementary Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Supplementary Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that the independent review will be undertaken by qualified people that will be able to ascertain how best to get this information from the public.

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Further Return To Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Supplementary Question O439-12(2): Request For Public Inquiry Into General Procedures For Abortions

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk .

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Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 509

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health . In the Edmonton Journal of Saturday, March 28th, there was an

article headlined, "Anesthetic Essential -Morgentaler." This is a fellow who has been a very strong advocate of proper medical procedures with regard to abortions. Yet, at Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, Dr. Suzanne Perkins stated that almost all of their abortion patients are sedated with some kind of pain killer. What does 'almost all of their patients" mean? Does it mean 99 per cent, or 50 per cent? We do not have the figure in here. I would like the Minister to inform me of the percentage.

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Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not wish to be a referee between one media or another and what they say about whatever. I cannot speak for the procedural differences between the medical professionals. Obviously, there are some differences. That is why the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Board is undertaking this review of abortion procedures in the Northwest Territories.

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Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk .

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Supplementary To Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will try it this way. On the same page it says that the hospital staff always use a local anesthetic on abortion patients. Which one is correct? All of the time, or some of the time?

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Supplementary To Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I think it would be difficult for the Minister to interpret what is in a media report. Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to be a referee between what is proper and what is not. I have assured the House that an independent review is going to be undertaken. The terms of reference that will be made in this review will allow that the recommendations be made public. As for the procedure itself, I have no comment on it.

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Further Return To Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Question O440-12(2): Percentage Of Abortion Patients Given Anesthetic

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike .

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Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health . Northerners are concerned about the procedures being used to perform abortions at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital. Recognizing that there have been reports that women are having to endure unreasonable levels of pain when they receive an abortion at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, and recognizing that there are facilities in southern Canada to which female patients could be referred for this surgical procedure, has the Minister taken any action to advise the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital to stop performing abortions until after the completion of the review?

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Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank, you, Mr. Speaker. No.

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Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Have there been any abortions or D and C procedures at Stanton Yellowknife Hospital since March 24th?

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Supplementary To Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

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Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not know.

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Further Return To Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Question O441-12(2): Abortion Cases Referred To Southern Canada

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell ,

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Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am really appalled and astounded that a Minister of this government, when we question, basically states that they do not have the authority to tell the doctors what to do, in their response. I cannot indicate how disappointed I am in hearing that type of remark, The Minister of this government has a statutory obligation to ensure that medical procedures that are maintained or are used in the Territories are acceptable to people of the North.

Therefore, I would like to ask the Minister of Health , since he indicated in this House that a directive to relieve pain would be given to women that abortions are performed on, has he produced this directive?

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Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I brought this matter to the attention of the department as soon as I heard about it. The department then began looking into it so I would have some answers on Tuesday, and I did. I responded as soon as I was informed of this matter through the media. The department then ascertained certain information for me and because, as I said earlier on, I cannot tell a doctor what to do and how to perform a particular type of procedure, I wanted the Stanton board to assure the public that their safety would be protected.

That is why a few moments ago I advised the House that the doctors themselves have taken on the responsibility to ensure that patients now, any patient who goes in for an abortion or a procedure similar to that, a D and C, would have control over the amount of additional pain medication that they would receive through a self-administered, rapid-acting inhalant. I have been informed that this is fast-acting, and it will produce a pain suppressing reaction.

I think this is all I can assure the House; that women seeking procedures of this nature will themselves be in control of fast acting medication that will relieve a certain amount of discomfort.

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Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe the Minister has understood my point. I would like to let the Minister know that as a Minister, the authority to ensure that adequate standards are maintained in the hospital, is his responsibility. I would like to ask the Minister if he can advise the House whether his failure to prepare a directive is a refusal on his part to exercise his statutory authority.

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Supplementary To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 510

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure how to answer the question, but I think physicians must make every effort to achieve adequate pain control and they must make every effort to be sensitive and responsive to indication that

their patients are uncomfortable. I believe that my previous reply speaks for itself; that the medical profession has taken these steps without a directive, I do not think I can answer the Member's question that I have issued a directive. I cannot issue directives like that, as to what a doctor should or should not do. I think the review that will be taking place will determine whether or not procedures here are in keeping with certain standards and are up to date. Those are what the issues here are.

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Further Return To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

If the Minister had just stated now that he will not issue a directive, then why did he state, *Yes," on Thursday when I questioned him in this House, asking him if he will develop a directive which will eliminate unnecessary pain which is posed on women that have abortion procedures taken through the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital?

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Supplementary To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I thought I answered the Member's question. The process that I took is I got the department to become aware of this as I became aware of this on the news. We wanted to make the Stanton board aware of my concerns, and that was done and passed on to the medical profession, and the medical profession then took it upon themselves to ensure that pain medication would be administered; and how it is done -- again, I have no control over telling a physician what to do. I think a Minister's powers are limited to some things. I said that we would bring it to their attention, and we have. I am sure that the review board will determine the process.

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Further Return To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

I believe this is my final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister again, why did he state in this House, "Yes," he will issue a directive, develop a directive, that will eliminate unnecessary pain imposed on women, and today states to us that he cannot do that? Why did he say "Yes" in this House last Thursday?

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Supplementary To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the words I used were that I would consider it.

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Further Return To Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Question O442-12(2): Directive From Minister For Doctors To Relieve Pain

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pursue the matter of authority of the Minister of Health . I have before me the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, and 5(

e) says: "Subject to this act, the board may..." -- the board in this particular case is the THIS Board, that was replaced to be the Minister -- "...may license, supervise and inspect hospitals in the Territories and ensure that adequate standards are maintained in the hospitals." Would the Minister indicate to me what this means in terms of services that are being provided for abortion procedures in hospitals?

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Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Minister.

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Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Minister does have overall authority over hospitals...

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Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Exactly.

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Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

... but I am not sure whether or not he has the authority to direct doctors to practise medicine in a certain fashion.

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Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Minister of Health not think that he has the power and authority to procedures?

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Supplementary To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I think licensing a doctor and telling a doctor what kind of anesthetics to apply are two different matters. The Minister may have the authority to license medical practitioners, but I do not think he has the authority to dictate what types of medication to apply. Mr. Speaker, I think I have answered the question to assuage any fears that Members may have that abortions are going to continue to be administered without any pain control or controlling medication.

The directive has been given by Stanton to the medical people as to what the concerns are, and the medical profession agreed to that and has come up with a form of medication that would allow patients to undergo such procedures as D and Cs and abortions without the feeling of unnecessary pain. That pain medication would be controlled by themselves. They have self-administered, inhalant devises that will allow them to take as much or as little as they feel is necessary.

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Further Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Does the Minister of Health not think that he has the power, the authority, and the legislative responsibility, or the responsibility, to set standards and direct boards of health to maintain certain types of medical standards and medical practices in their hospitals?

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Supplementary To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 511

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

While this may be true, I am not sure what, and I do not think anyone is sure what, the "proper" procedure is. We have heard experts on all sides of this issue suggest which way is better, one way or the other; and again, I am going to point out that because of the confusion surrounding what is right and what is not right, or better or not better, I think this is what this independent review will bring forward to the public to let them know what procedures are being used.

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Further Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Final supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Final supplementary on this matter of authority. Does the Minister, in listening to his response, not feel that he has the legislative authority to instruct hospitals to maintain certain standards?

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Supplementary To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not entirely sure of my total authority, but I see the Member has a reference book, which I have not got in front of me, to determine my total authority in this matter. I understand that I do have it, so I will have to say "Yes."

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Further Return To Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Question O443-12(2): Abortions In Relation To This Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health . Could the Minister please inform the House, who has the responsibility to act as spokesman for the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital in responding to reports that women are subjected to painful surgical procedures when undergoing abortion?

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Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I think that if any person is experiencing some concern with the medical procedure that is taking place, in any medical facility, the first person they should address that to is the attending physician. I think subsequent to that...

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Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Point of order, Ms. Mike .

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Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not asking who women should direct their complaints to; I am asking who has the responsibility to act as spokesman for the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, concerning abortions.

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Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

That is not a point of order, Ms. Mike . Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Procedures Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Lynn Olenek.

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Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Procedures Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Dr. Perry Caplan, of the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, has made public statements that the hospital's policy of not routinely giving anesthetic to women having abortions is in the patients' best interests. Can the Minister confirm whether this is the formal position of either the hospital board or the territorial Department of Health?

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Supplementary To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

No.

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Further Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Dr. Caplan has made comments that patients are not strapped down or held down during surgical procedures. These comments contradict earlier disclosures made by many women from across the NWT. Is the Minister aware whether or not Dr. Caplan completed a full review of procedures used by all surgeons and physicians at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital before making these comments to the press?

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Supplementary To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of what Dr. Caplan has spoken to. Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, the review that will be undertaken will look into the hospital procedures and how they reply, and they will make recommendations that will be made public and brought forward to the House at a later date.

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Further Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recognizing the actions of medical personnel at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital are likely to influence the reputation of the health care delivery system in the NWT, what action is the Minister willing to undertake in order to ensure that public statements by hospital personnel are carefully co-ordinated and factually accurate?

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Supplementary To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re: Abortion Procedures

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps they would best co-ordinate that through Ms. Olenek.

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Further Return To Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion

Question O444-12(2): Stanton Yellowknife Hospital Spokesperson Re Abortion Procedures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 512

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health . I am very concerned. Last Thursday I asked the Minister of Health if he would develop a directive to eliminate unnecessary pain which is posed on women that have abortion procedures taken through the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital. The Minister indicated to this House, "Yes." Today he basically indicates in this House that he said he thought he would consider it. Is the Minister of Health willing to develop a directive to his department which will eliminate unnecessary pain posed on women that have

abortion procedures taken through the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital?

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Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, yes.

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Return To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, since the Minister has committed to ensuring that a directive will be developed to eliminate unnecessary pain pose on women, will he request in this directive, when it is developed, that in order to eliminate unnecessary pain that it be in the form of local anesthesia or local anesthetic or general anesthesia?

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Supplementary To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer that question because it suggests that the Minister of Health would know something about medical procedures and which type of medication to apply, which kind of anesthetics to apply within specific instances. I think I said that the Stanton board had already assured that the medical profession were aware of the concerns of women and that they have taken these steps to provide this additional pain control medication through the inhalant method. I was assured that this stuff is fast-acting and the requirements could be administered by the individual to the level that they would require.

As far as writing a directive to the doctors to tell them what kind of medication to apply, I think that is best left to the medical profession rather than the Minister. But I will issue the directive to do something, which has already been done.

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Further Return To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, if the Minister has committed to this House to request that a directive be developed to eliminate unnecessary pain, and since he indicated that he does not know whether he should tell the doctor whether it should be local anesthetic or whatever type of pain reliever, I would like to ask the Minister why can he not commit to this House that local anesthetic or general anesthetic should be used when abortion procedures are done through the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital?

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Supplementary To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how many times I can say it. I am not a doctor so I do not know what is best for one situation over another. I cannot instruct doctors as to what to do. I can only assure the Members that the medical profession has already taken steps to ensure there is a minimum amount of pain caused to patients that are receiving these delicate procedures. I have explained this to the Member, I do not know how many times.

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Further Return To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Question O445-12(2): Abortion Pain Elimination Directive For Doctors

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 513

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

A few minutes ago my colleague, Mr. Nerysoo , asked the Minister if he felt that he had the authority to instruct doctors or for directives to be developed accordingly, which would require medical procedures used. The Minister indicated - I believe after some time he recognized his authority and he now is indicating that he cannot tell a doctor what to do. The Minister is responsible for the doctors' actions, and unfortunately the doctors' actions are causing unnecessary pain to women. When the Minister of