Legislative Debates — 28 September 1992 (12th Assembly, 2nd Session, pp. 1113–1145)
1992-09-28, 12th Assembly 2nd Session, pp. 1113–1145
Northwest Territories — Debates (Hansard)
Debates of Sept. 28th, 1992
This is page numbers 1113 - 1145 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.
The word of the day was aboriginal .
Topics
Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Lac La Martre Airport Opening
Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Question O862-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Question O863-12(2): Progress With Moving Companies Regarding Proposed Tariff
Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Question O865-12(2): Departmental Officials To Meet With Moving Companies
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry
Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Moving And Hook-up Of Power Poles
Professional Development And Training Courses
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act No 2, 1992-93
Tabled Document 66-12(2) "working Toward A Common Future"
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Members Present
Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Hon. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe
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---Prayer
Speaker's Ruling On Sub judice
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Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 1113
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Good afternoon. Before we proceed today, I am going to give my decision on the point of privilege made by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on Thursday, September 24, 1992. Where she asked the Minister of Health , the Honourable Dennis Patterson , a question relating to the process surrounding an inquiry, established pursuant to the Medical Profession Act. A board of inquiry has been duly constituted pursuant to the Act, however, the inquiry is in its early stages, and to the Chair's knowledge, no evidence has yet been given in the inquiry.
As the issue of sub judice has been raised with increasing frequency in this Assembly, I, therefore, allowed debate on this issue, and advised Members that I would take some time to consider their comments, and review our rules and various parliamentary authorities, before rendering my ruling.
Rule 35(
g) provides that a Member will be called to order if the Member refers to any matter that is before any quasi-judicial administrative, or investigative, body constituted by the Assembly, by or under the authority of
an Act of the Assembly, or where any such person may be prejudiced in such a matter by the reference. This rule is a "codification" of the long-standing parliamentary convention prohibiting Members from commenting on matters before judicial bodies.
The purpose of the sub judice convention is twofold: to protect the interested parties from prejudice, and to maintain a separation and mutual respect between the legislative and judicial branches of government.
The sub judice convention is straightforward as it applies to criminal matters. Parliamentary precedents are consistent in barring any reference to criminal matters pending before a court. Comments by Members of criminal matters being considered by a court may result in prejudice to the accused, and the development of a public perception that the Legislature is attempting to influence the judiciary. The independence of the judicial system, and the rights of the accused, are simply too important to allow this to happen.
The rule as it applies to civil matters, particularly those pending before a quasi-judicial tribunal, is less clear and, hence, the sub judice convention becomes more difficult to apply. Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules & Forms, 6th edition, citation 507(1), notes "that no settled practice has been developed in relation to civil cases, as the convention has been applied in some cases but not in others". Thus, the application of this ill-defined convention, as it is applied to civil matters, is left to the relevant Speaker, and considerable discretion exists in determining when, and under what circumstances, a question will offend the convention.
The discretion allowed the Speaker is necessary, for it is not possible to devise a rule which would have a general and exact application to every factual scenario that Members may pose.
While it is not possible to define exactly when sub judice is applicable, discretion should not be exercised in a vacuum, and guidelines should be adopted which will govern the exercise of the Speaker's discretion. After reviewing the relevant authorities and principles, I feel that the following principles are applicable when determining whether a question violates Rule 35(g), and the general sub judice convention:
1. The freedom of speech accorded to Members in this House is vital to the Member's ability to perform their duties, and adequately represent the needs and interest of their constituents. Freedom of speech is the cornerstone of our democratic system. The application of the sub judice rule is a fetter on a Member's freedom of speech and, hence, the convention should be restrictively interpreted. The Speaker should interfere with that freedom of speech only in exceptional cases where it is clear that to do could be harmful to specific individuals. (Beauchesne's 511)
2. The rights of litigants to a fair trial, free from the possibility of prejudice occasioned by a public debate on the very issues before the trial judge, must also be protected. Generally, Speaker comments which seek to influence parties, witnesses, or decision-makers, will be inappropriate. In these circumstances, a Member's freedom of speech must give way to the importance of preserving the independence of the decision making process. It is not enough for justice to be done, it must also be seen to be done.
3. Questions, or debate, relating to the content of a matter before a separate decision making party will, generally speaking, be inappropriate, and will be disallowed. This would include, for example, questions relating to evidence given at an inquiry, or questions designed to comment on, or influence, the very matter before a decision maker. Questions relating to procedure, or process, particularly at the pre-hearing stage, will, generally speaking, be allowed, given that they do not seek to substitute this Legislature's opinions for that of the outside tribunal.
4. While the Chair has the ultimate responsibility of determining when a matter is sub judice, all Members should share in the responsibility of protecting the independence of decision making bodies, established under Acts of this Legislature.
A Member who feels that there could be a risk of causing prejudice in referring to a particular case, or inquiry, should refrain from raising the matter.
5. Where a real doubt exists in the mind of the Chair, as to whether a question would prejudice the litigants, or the independence, of the decision making process, the Chair should exercise its discretion in favour of allowing debate on the issue, and against the application of the sub judice convention.
In applying the above principles to the question asked by the Member for Thebacha , I have not been persuaded that prejudice would result, or be seen to result, if the Member is permitted to ask a question concerning the process of establishing the inquiry. The process of giving evidence is not yet under way. Further, the Member's question concerns a procedural, process oriented issue, and is not related to the actual subject matter of the inquiry. Accordingly, should the Member wish, I will permit her to raise her question as posed on Thursday, September 24, 1992.
As indicated, this a lengthy ruling, but I felt that Members should be aware of the principles that the Chair will apply in debate when deciding on the use of the sub judice convention. I would also hope that Members would exercise their responsibility when asking questions, and to also be guided by these principles.
Thank you.
Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Whitford .
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Minister's Statement 99-12(2): Lac La Martre Airport Opening
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1114
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I inform the House, that later today, I, along with the Member for North Slave , Mr. Zoe will be flying to Lac La Martre to celebrate, with the community, the opening of its new airport.
The Department of Transportation was able to build the airport through a fifty-fifty cost sharing agreement, with Transport Canada, for the construction of seven new community airports in the Northwest Territories. The cost sharing construction agreement was negotiated as part and parcel of the Arctic airports transfer agreement in 1990.
The new airport brings several benefits to the community of Lac La Martre. The old airport was located inside the community, and was restricting the community's growth. The land taken up by the old airport is now available for community expansion.
The new airport is also better for the aircraft companies, and pilots, who serve Lac La Martre. With a length of 3,000 feet, the new runway gives the pilots an extra 800 feet of safety margin for their take-offs and landings. The new runway is also on a better alignment which should eliminate the problem the old airstrip had with cross-winds.
As the Minister of Transportation , I am especially proud of the way the department carefully managed the project, so that the people of Lac La Martre could make the most of the employment opportunities the project offered. As part of the opening ceremonies today, fifteen residents will receive the Arctic College Heavy Equipment Diplomas that they earned while on the job.
All in all, I am proud to say that the opening of the Lac La Martre airport later today will be a big success for everyone involved. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Minister's Statement 99-12(2): Lac La Martre Airport Opening
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1114
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements.
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Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1114
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, before giving my Member's statement, I want to take the time to thank you for your ruling on the matter of privilege, I brought before this House last Thursday. I believe that your direction, Mr. Speaker, on this will be useful for all honourable Members, in this House, when dealing with sub judice convention.
I would like to make a few comments today, however, because I am still concerned about the process used by the Minister of Health with respect to a Board of Inquiry, established under the Medical Profession Act, to deal with certain matters at the Fort Smith Health Centre. The Minister of Health , on September 9, was asked about the development of standards for a board of inquiry, of a report prepared by two doctors from Saskatchewan.
The Minister responded, and I refer to page 3075 of our unedited transcripts, of that particular date, regarding the board of inquiry, and I quote the Minister's response: "The board of inquiry is an independent procedure which I would describe as a peer review, the same way that doctors, pharmacists, and other professionals discipline themselves."
It is not something that is geared by the government, the Minister, or the department? Mr. Speaker, I do not know if the Minister can continue to take this position when the department's own lawyer is acting for the one who is issuing notices of summons, and acting for the board of inquiry. Who is giving her the instructions to do this? Clearly, it must be someone within the Department of Health, or the Department of Justice. I state that because, that is where the employee works.
Honourable Members should be as concerned as I am with this Minister, who may not be keeping an arms length distance from this, supposedly, independent process. Honourable Members should be concerned that the Department of Health may be attempting to steer this process in the same way it attempts to run health and hospital boards across the territories, and overriding the wishes of our communities and regions in favour of its headquarters's perspectives.
I do intend to further my questioning on this important issue today because, as you had said...
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Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1114
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mrs. Marie-Jewell , your allotted time has elapsed.
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Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1114
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
I seek unanimous consent to continue.
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Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1114
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please continue Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1114
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, as I stated, I will continue to pursue this line of questioning today. As you had
stated, justice must not only be done, but it must also seem to be done. Thank you.
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Board Of Inquiry On Fort Smith Health Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .
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Question O862-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Kenoayoak Pudlat
Baffin South
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Transportation . As we all know, everything is going up in price, but I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation , in regards to airlines, I do not know if the airfares are going up in the west, but the airfares in the eastern Arctic are increasing. I am wondering if the Minister has ever been notified of the proposed increases in airfares, and if he knows anything about these proposed increases?
For those of us that have to travel back and forth on airlines in the eastern arctic, it has a significant impact on us. Airfare increases in the eastern Arctic are increasing every year practically. I am wondering if the Minister of Transportation has been notified of these proposed increases? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question O862-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Whitford .
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Question O862-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I have not been advised that there are airfare increases in the Member's region. I have not got any word from anyone.
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Question O862-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent .
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Question O863-12(2): Progress With Moving Companies Regarding Proposed Tariff
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Personnel . Mr. Speaker, the Minister is aware of my concerns regarding the lack of consultation between his department, and the moving industry, about the development of a tariff for the movement of G.N.W.T. employees' goods. On September 17, 1992, the Minister advised the House that he was committed to making good use of the delay, in the institution of the tariff, making sure that officials will now speak to the people affected.
My question is, will the Minister advise the House as to what progress his department has now made, in conducting negotiations with moving industry representatives, towards a solution to this issue?
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Question O863-12(2): Progress With Moving Companies Regarding Proposed Tariff
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Question O863-12(2): Progress With Moving Companies Regarding Proposed Tariff
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, without notice of the question, I have no way to prepare a statement advising the House on progress today. I have to take it as notice. Thank you.
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Question O863-12(2): Progress With Moving Companies Regarding Proposed Tariff
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .
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Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Kenoayoak Pudlat
Baffin South
(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, if I could only go back to my oral question? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be asking another question to the Minister of Transportation . I wish to have further clarification on his response. I think that we, as individuals, have to be informed as soon as possible as to when there are going to be increases proposed, particularly on the airlines, and we all know that prices are forever going up in the north.
We had just heard that the increase will be about $2.00 or more on airfares in the eastern Arctic. They just recently had increases on airfares. We all know that unemployment is extremely high in the north, and this is going to have a very big impact on individuals in the communities. I am asking if the Minister could be more informative on the proposed increases on airfares. I do not know what kind of procedures they have. When airlines are going to be increasing their airfares, I wish to ask the Minister if he can inform us, as soon as possible, when he hears of these increases. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
New question, Mr. Whitford .
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Return To Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increase In Airfare In The Eastern Arctic
Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, in my first reply I stated that I had not heard of any increases. I will endeavour to find out from the airline companies that fly here, if there are to be any increases, and get that information to the Member. It is not something that our department becomes involved in, setting of the prices for commercial air travel. What I will do, Mr. Speaker, is find out from First Air, I think that is the company that is into Lake Harbour and area, if indeed, there has been price increases, and get that information to the Member. In addition to that, Mr.
Speaker, I will ask them if they would be so kind as to provide that to the communities, in advance. Thank you.
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Return To Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increase In Airfare In The Eastern Arctic
Question O864-12(2): Reason For Increased Airfares In The Eastern Arctic
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Question O865-12(2): Departmental Officials To Meet With Moving Companies
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to pose a question to the Minister of Personnel . Mr. Speaker, some time this month, I cannot recall the exact date, we asked the Minister if he would give his department direction to meet with the moving companies. I would like to ask him, in regards to the tariff that the G.N.W.T. is wanting to impose on moving companies, if this direction had been relayed to his department to meet with the moving companies? Thank you.
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Question O865-12(2): Departmental Officials To Meet With Moving Companies
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Question O865-12(2): Departmental Officials To Meet With Moving Companies
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, the direction was relayed to the Department of Personnel the same day. Beyond that, what they have done is met with the companies. Whether they can set a date, find suitable dates in everyone's hectic schedule, I am not advised of it. That is why I had taken the earlier question as notice. Thank you.
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Question O865-12(2): Departmental Officials To Meet With Moving Companies
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Oral questions. Mr. Lewis .
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Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1115
Brian Lewis
Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation . I would like to ask the Minister, what progress has been made on paving the road from
Providence to Yellowknife, as outlined in the government long-term plans for transportation?
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Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Whitford .
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Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know where to begin. Mr. Speaker, great process has been made. The plans are well under way for a five year period to reconstruct the highway between the junction, which begins highway three, to the junction of highway four which is over by the power plant. This past year there has been quite a bit of work from the junction to about 45 kilometres east of the river on highway three, that has already received chip seal. It was reconstructed last year, and received chip seal this year. Over a period of five years, the road will be reconstructed up as far as the airport here in Yellowknife, completing the project.
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Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .
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Supplementary To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Brian Lewis
Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does that mean that the last strip of this road will be the road that is built from Yellowknife back towards the Rae junction, which we all know is the most travelled road in the Northwest Territories. It includes not only traffic to and from the south, but also to and from Yellowknife to Fort Rae. Will you confirm that the last chunk of this road will be the road from Rae to Yellowknife?
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Supplementary To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Whitford .
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Further Return To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Yes, Mr. Speaker, it is the most travelled.
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Further Return To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .
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Supplementary To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Brian Lewis
Yellowknife Centre
The Minister has concurred with me that it is the most travelled road, Mr. Speaker. My question is, is there a plan within this five year plan, to include paving the road from the Yellowknife airport as far as Fort Rae? Will he confirm that, in fact, is going to be done within five years?
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Supplementary To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Whitford .
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Further Return To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The short answer to that is yes.
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Further Return To Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Question O866-12(2): Progress On Paving Mackenzie Highway
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Oral questions. Mr. Gargan .
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Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
Thank you. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of W.C.B. Mr. Speaker, I have a question, on September 23, I asked the Minister whether he had met his earlier commitment to develop a new policy for defining who is eligible to receive workers' compensation as a traditional harvester. He did indicate that he had not met that commitment, and that the new policy has still not been developed. In the absence of a new policy in this area, can the Minister advise the House what definition the Workers' Compensation Board is using to decide who is, and is not, eligible for compensation if they are injured while in the course of traditional hunting, trapping or fishing?
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Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Patterson .
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Return To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, the Workers' Compensation Board is using the old definition of "principally engaged" for the purpose of defining who is eligible for W.C.B. coverage when a hunter is injured. That is quite a restrictive definition. That is the one that is in use, at the moment, in the absence of a new definition. Thank you.
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Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .
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Supplementary To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
Thank you. The Minister is using the old policy right now. I would like to the ask the Minister, he should be fully aware that the policy for defining who is "principally engaged" and hunting and trapping has been criticized by traditional harvesters across the Northwest Territories. That was criticized by the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions. Even the Workers' Compensation Board's own appeal committee has ruled that the policy is contrary to the spirit of the legislation. Recognizing those facts, can the Minister explain how he can possibly justify the continued use of this policy by the Workers' Compensation Board?
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Supplementary To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Patterson .
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Further Return To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, the Department of Renewable Resources pays all the bills for a claim by a hunter under the Workers' Compensation Board and its policies. The W.C.B. is simply a device for assessing the claim, and deciding the extent of disability. Once that is done, unlike the other claims that come to the W.C.B., the Department of Renewable Resources pays the bills. The Member has asked for a broader definition to include more hunters. It has been recommended by the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions in its review of the W.C.B.
It has been criticized by the W.C.B.'s own appeal committee, I acknowledge that. Mr. Speaker, until the Department of Renewable Resources can accept the financial commitment that a broader definition will require and identify the funds, and approve what is in effect new guidelines for paying these claims, there will be no money to pay under a more generous definition. So, I am waiting for the department, which is going to pay the bills, to accept the new definition, to budget the necessary monies, once that is done, and we are close to having that done, Mr.
Speaker, then the board will be happy to apply the new policy. The board is not the problem. The problem is identifying the necessary funds. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1116
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .
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Supplementary To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Based on the definition under
section 10-1 of the Workers' Compensation Board, can the Minister tell the House, if compensation has been denied since May of this year.
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Supplementary To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Patterson .
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Further Return To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, recently there have been few claims, and of those claims from hunters and trappers, there have been some that have been denied. So, if the Member is getting at the fact that claims are being held up by the process to redefine "principally engaged", then he is correct on that. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question O867-12(2): W.c.b. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Question O867-12(2): W.C.B. Policy For Traditional Harvesters
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have an oral question for the Minister of Justice . The question that I had posed on Thursday, I would like to repeat. Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate that it is not my intention to refer to the substance of any matter before the board. The question refers to the process.
Mr. Speaker, on September 9, the Minister assured the House that the board of inquiry was an independent procedure, and it is not something steered by the government, or the Minister of the department. I have been advised that certain documents have recently been served upon individuals by legal counsel for the Department of Justice.
I would like to ask the Minister, can the Minister advise the House who directed legal counsel to serve these documents? I am aware that Dr. Covert, the President of the board of inquiry, is presently unavailable on holidays up until today, and he has apparently been scheduled back to the territories, today, to address this board of inquiry. Thank you.
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Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I would have to take that question as notice. I am sure that Members would understand that it is important to get to who is responsible for actions that are taken in a legal context, to be explicit and clear, and I will take it as notice. Thank you.
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Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. New question Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since that Minister could not answer, I will pose a new question to the Minister of Health .
Mr. Speaker, on Friday, September 25, I posed a question to the Government Leader , since the Minister of Health was not available, and I asked the Government Leader , in regards to the decision on the motion that we posed, brought forth, and debated, in this House, successfully passed on September 14, regarding the public inquiry, which is separate from the board of inquiry that the Minister has established.
I would like to ask the Minister of Health whether, or not, they will proceed with this public inquiry, and when? Thank you.
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Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
That was two questions to the Minister, and we have dealt with one of them. Mr. Patterson .
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Return To Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, the Cabinet has agreed to proceed with a public inquiry into the Public Inquiries Act, and I will be making a more detailed statement to, perhaps, answer the Member's further questions tomorrow in the House. Thank you.
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Return To Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Question O869-12(2): Timeframe For Proceeding With Public Inquiry
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Mr. Nerysoo .
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Question 62-12(2): Moving And Hook-up Of Power Poles
Item 6: Written Questions
Page 1117
Richard Nerysoo
Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a written question to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Would the Minister responsible for the N.W.T. Power Corporation table, in this House, the policy of moving power poles, including hook-up, that accommodates private homeowners. Mr. Speaker, exactly how many power poles were moved throughout the N.W.T. to accommodate homeowners would the Minister break this down into regions, and further into communities. Would the Minister provide the following detailed information for power poles that were moved: did the N.W.T.
Power Corporation assume the costs associated to moving power poles, and the hooking up of private homeowners; further, did the Power Corporation assume the costs associated to add special anti-vibration systems to homes; and would the Minister indicate if the N.W.T. Power Corporation assumed the responsibility for all costs associated with moving power poles?
Now, Mr. Speaker, if I could ask the honourable Member if she could provide the information before Thursday. Thank you.
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Question 62-12(2): Moving And Hook-up Of Power Poles
Item 6: Written Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Written questions, Mr. Koe .
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Question 63-12(2): Professional Development And Training Courses
Item 6: Written Questions
Page 1117
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question to the Minister of Social Services . I am aware that the Department sponsors employees, and some contract employees, for professional development and training. Will the Minister provide the following information:
a)What courses have staff, and contract employees, taken in the fiscal years 1989-90, 1990-91, and 1991-92;
b)Where were these courses held;
c)Who attended the courses which were held outside of the Northwest Territories; and
d)What were the total costs of sponsoring these employees to take these courses in the N.W.T., and outside the N.W.T.?
Thank you.
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Question 63-12(2): Professional Development And Training Courses
Item 6: Written Questions
Page 1117
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents, Mr. Pollard .
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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Page 1118
John Pollard
Hay River
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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Page 1118
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Mr. Pollard .
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Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act No 2, 1992-93
Item 14: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills
Page 1118
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Wednesday, September 30, 1992, I shall move that Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93 be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act No 2, 1992-93
Item 14: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills
Page 1118
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Mr. Kakfwi .
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Motion 36-12(2): Tabled Document 66-12(2) "working Toward A Common Future"
Item 15: Motions
Page 1118
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I would like to move that,
WHEREAS the document, "Working Towards a Common Future", phase one report of the commission for constitutional development was tabled in the Legislative Assembly on June 29, 1992, tabled document 66-12(2);
AND
WHEREAS this matter should be thoroughly discussed by the Legislative Assembly;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , that tabled document 66-12(2), titled "Working Towards a Common Future", be moved into the Committee of the Whole for discussion;
AND FURTHER that the Legislative Assembly invite members from the Committee of Political Leaders to appear before the committee of the whole as witnesses when tabled document 66-12(2) is discussed.
Thank you.
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Motion 36-12(2): Tabled Document 66-12(2) "working Toward A Common Future"
Item 15: Motions
Page 1118
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi , your seconder is not in the House.
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Motion 36-12(2): Tabled Document 66-12(2) "working Toward A Common Future"
Item 15: Motions
Page 1118
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, the seconder of the motion is the Member for Yellowknife South .
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Motion 36-12(2): Tabled Document 66-12(2) "working Toward A Common Future"
Item 15: Motions
Page 1118
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Kakfwi . Seconder, Mr. Whitford . To the motion. Mr. Kakfwi , you can conclude debate. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried
Tabled document 66-12(2), put into committee of the whole. Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills.
Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: tabled document 9-12(2), Strength at Two Levels; tabled document 10-12(2), Reshaping Northern Government; tabled document 62-12(2), Report on Northwest Territories Operations at Expo '92 as at May 31, 1992; tabled document 70-12(2), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; motion 6, Discussion on "Sobriety Clause in Contribution Agreements"; committee report 10-12(2), Special Committee on Constitutional Reform Report on the Multilateral Conferences on the Constitution; committee report 17-12(2), Report on the Review of the 1992-93 Main Estimates; committee report 18-12(2), Multilateral Meetings on the Constitution and First Ministers' - Aboriginal Leaders' Conferences on the Constitution; Bill 9,
An Act to Amend the Insurance Act ; Bill 31,
An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act ; Bill 32,
An Act to Amend the Young Offenders Act, No. 2 ; Bill 33 , Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93; Minister's statement 82-12(2), Update on the National Constitutional Reform Negotiations; and, tabled document 66-12(2), "Working Towards a Common Future", with Mr. Ningark in the Chair.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1118
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you for your attention. The committee will now come to order. Yesterday when we concluded in the committee of the whole, we were discussing the Department of Justice. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Nerysoo .
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1118
Richard Nerysoo
Mackenzie Delta
Mr. Chairman, I believe that we should deal with committee report 18-12(2), committee report 10-12(2) and Minister's statement 82-12(2).
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 1118
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Does the committee agree that we deal with these items?
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Page 1118
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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Page 1118
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. We are now dealing with committee report 18-12(2). Mr. Kakfwi , do you have any opening remarks that you would like to present to this committee?
Introductory Remarks, Committee Report 18-12(2)
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1118
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
(Translation begins) Mr. Chairman, when the special committee presented its June 16 report on the state of national constitutional reform negotiations, there was uncertainty at the time about ever achieving a "best efforts" package which all participants could support.
There was concern that the federal government may proceed with its own unilateral proposal which might have compromised the delicate balance and some of the hard fought achievements negotiated by each participant in the multilateral round.
Finally, there was concern that a unilateral federal approach would risk further alienating individual provinces and territories, regions, aboriginal first nations and others who had placed their faith in reaching a true consensus through the multilateral process.
However, ongoing negotiations over the summer months involving Ministers, first Ministers, and aboriginal leaders, eventually succeeded in convincing Quebec to formally join the constitutional talks which culminated on August 28 with the Charlottetown Consensus Report.
Mr. Chairman, when the special committee tabled its most recent report last week, the House was provided with a detailed accounting of the events of the last two months and recommendations from the Charlottetown Consensus Agreement. We do not propose to cover all of this material again.
Rather, the special committee suggests that our objectives for today's proceedings should be:
- To hear from our distinguished guests, who played such a crucial role in developing this historic reform package;
- To have Members debate and question the Consensus Report and the broader issue of national constitutional reform;
- To reflect upon recent criticism of the agreement, including those outstanding and unresolved issues that are not adequately addressed in reform package;
- To provide the special committee with further direction during this crucial period as Canadians prepare to vote on the consensus package in the national referendum; and
- To recommend that the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories consider a motion during this Session which formally expresses its support for the consensus agreement.
(Translation ends)
To set the context for part of this afternoon's debate, it is important that Members are reminded of the terms of reference, which this House approved on April 1, 1992, which guided the special committee's work and the participation of the Northwest Territories government and Legislature in the constitutional negotiations. Briefly, we were directed:
- To enshrine the inherent right to aboriginal self-government in the Canadian Constitution;
- To achieve full and meaningful participation for territories at all future national level meetings and conferences on economic, aboriginal and constitutional matters;
- To change the Constitution's amending formula to return the exclusive authority for creating new provinces to the government and Parliament of Canada;
- To protect territorial interests in constitutional amendments relating to the division of powers and the Canadian economic union; and
- To ensure territorial representation in a reformed Senate and the right to nominate of qualified Northwest Territories residents for vacancies on the Supreme Court of Canada.
Mr. Chairman, the special committee's report and September 16 presentation to the house provides the substance on how the Charlottetown Consensus Report reflects each of the terms of reference.
While I will comment in a moment on outstanding and unresolved issues which remain of concern to the special committee, I want to simply state on behalf of my colleagues that the consensus agreement represents an achievement of historic significance for the Northwest Territories and for Canada.
From our perspective, first, the inherent right to aboriginal self-government will be entrenched. Political accords and constitutional amendments will guarantee territorial participation in future talks at the national level. The Constitution's amending formula will be changed so that parliament alone can create new provinces. The amending formula will also be changed to require the federal government to obtain the consent of our Legislative Assembly before making changes to the Northwest Territories.
New division of powers arrangements will allow protection of federal-territorial agreements from unilateral change by the federal government. Territories will be able to nominate qualified northern residents to sit as judges in Canada's Supreme Court, and representation for the Northwest Territories in a reformed Senate will be guaranteed.
Mr. Chairman, these achievements for the north are not just the result of hard work during the last six months by the Premier , special committee members, territorial officials and other northern and aboriginal leaders, like Mary Simon, Rosemarie Kuptana, Gary Bohnet, Roger Gruben, Ethel Blondin and Jack Anawak.
(Translation begins) These achievements represent the culmination of dedicated hard work over the past two decades by territorial aboriginal organizations and leaders like Georges Erasmus and John Amagoalik, who have consistently assumed a prominent and influential role at the national level.
They also reflect the determination of past and current Members of this House, including Mr. Braden, Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Sibbeston, Mr. Patterson , Mr. Ballantyne , Premier Cournoyea, and others who have laid the groundwork for our success in this round through strong, persistent leadership, lobbying those who would listen, court challenges, and numerous appearances over the past decade before federal and provincial committees and task forces on national constitutional reform. (Translation ends)
The support for northern constitutional issues and encouragement, which our delegation received from Constitutional Affairs Minister Clark, the Premiers of the provinces, and the Ministers during the past six months, have also resulted in the achievements to date.
Mr. Chairman, while well deserved compliments are in order, the reality is that the constitutional reform package does not address a number of outstanding, and unresolved, constitutional issues to the satisfaction of some Canadians and the organizations which represent their interests. Furthermore, there are elements of the package which could have significant implications for the Northwest Territories.
For example, the Native Women's Association of Canada objects to their being excluded from the constitutional negotiation process and the provisions of the reform package which, they believe, do not sufficiently guarantee equality of aboriginal men and women, and protection for aboriginal women under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
The National Action Committee on the Status of Women has come out against the reform package because they believe it does not adequately protect the rights of women and other equality seeking groups, and does not guarantee seats for women in the Senate. The Action Committee is also concerned about the erosion of government commitments to national social programs resulting from limitations on the federal spending power.
The One Voice Seniors Network is critical of the reform package because the provisions respecting social services, like housing, health care, and social services, are guiding principles that are not intended to be enforceable through the courts. Organizations representing the handicapped have made a credible argument to ensure that references be included in the Canada clause to protect their interests.
Environmentalists are concerned that the package does not take into account the need for constitutional measures to protect the environment, given recognition of exclusive provincial jurisdiction in mining, forestry, tourism, and urban affairs. Members of this House have questioned the impact, the commitment to future talks on the Canadian common market, which could affect our government's role in developing the Northwest Territories economy and business sector through preference policies and programs.
We must also examine the implications that federal restraint measures, such as the recent decision to reduce contributions for social housing programs, will have upon the new division of powers arrangements, and bilateral safeguard agreements to maintain federal spending in the Northwest Territories.
Any federal decisions to significantly reduce expenditures prior to the negotiation of bilateral safeguard agreements on spending in the Northwest Territories for housing, tourism, culture, recreation, labour market training, regional economic development, mining, and forestry, will obviously generate uncertainty about our ability to secure adequate federal funding through the intergovernmental agreement mechanism.
We are genuinely interested, and concerned, about a stampede amongst provincial and territorial governments to negotiate bilateral agreements as quickly as possible for declining federal expenditures in these areas. The Metis Nation Accord could mean a significant departure from our current approach to settlement of claims if adopted in the Northwest Territories. It could lead to separate Dene and Metis claims and self-government agreements which could end our tradition of joint settlement of these issues.
With regret, I would note that chiefs representing Six and Seven First Nations have concluded that the reform package represents an unacceptable compromise.
(Translation) I say to you that these and other outstanding, or unresolved, issues should be addressed in the course of our debate this afternoon, and during the remainder of this session. Directions from the House on these matters is crucial for the committee's ongoing participation in the reform process leading up to, and following, the national referendum.
Mr. Speaker, the special committee, along with all of the other participants in the process, which has taken place over the last six months, agree that the reform package is not perfect. (Translation ends)
Restructuring of our institutions of government, and the laws which further define how we relate to each other, will correct mistakes from the past and prepare Canada for the future. A "no" vote, or a "yes" vote, in the upcoming referendum will not immediately translate into constitutional peace and harmony for Canada or aboriginal First Nations in the Northwest Territories, nor will it resolve financial issues and help housing or resource control. It will surely provide the basis for all of us to work positively towards our greater goal of a united Canada, and a just society that we can all begin to feel a part of.
If the package is approved by Canadians, there will be further work required to implement the far reaching changes which an amended Constitution will require. Fortunately, this work will take place within a constitutional framework, which guides the change and reform. If the package is rejected it means more constitutional talks, either to improve upon the Charlottetown consensus or to prepare, we believe, for Quebec's separation from Canada.
My prediction is that it will be the latter. Party Quebec leader, Jacques Parizeau, has finally publicly stated that a "no" vote, is a vote for Quebec independence. A "no" vote will most definitely fragment this country, and cause further alienation. On the other hand, Preston Manning and the Reform Party, suggest a "no" vote in the upcoming referendum will mean a return to the constitutional status quo. This is, at best, I believe, wishful thinking, and Canadians must be very cautious about such
interpretation of the consequences of a "no" vote.
Mr. Chairman, our constituents will be looking to us as they go to the poles in just 29 days. They will look to us and other leaders for information, advice, and direction, in deciding how they should vote on October 26. They will also want to know our position on the reform package. The special committee's position, and its recommendation to this Legislature is that we adopt a motion, in support of the reform package, during this session.
The Charlottetown Consensus Report builds upon the accomplishments of the 125 years of confederation, as well as correcting some of the mistakes, particularly as they affect aboriginal people. Whether, or not, northern residents support or reject the package, our first priority is to encourage them to vote. Our second priority, over the next four weeks, is to respond to their questions, provide information, and explain its implications for the Northwest Territories. Our third priority, is to encourage them to vote "yes" in the referendum.
I believe that it is a good deal for aboriginal people, for the people of the north, and for the people of Canada. Mr. Chairman, with the permission of the committee, I would like to invite witnesses to appear before the committee? Thank you.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 1120
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Proceed do we have the concurrence of the committee?
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Page 1120
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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Page 1120
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Kakfwi .
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 1120
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, I wish to invite from the Assembly of First Nations, Mr. Ovide Mercredi, the National Chief; the President of the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada, Rosemarie Kuptana; Phil Fraser, Vice-President of the Native Council of Canada; and representing the Metis National Council, Tony Belcourt.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 1120
The Chair
John Ningark
On behalf of the committee of the whole, of the N.W.T. Legislative Assembly, I would like to welcome each and every one of you, first of all to Yellowknife, and secondly, to the committee of the whole. I would now like to ask the witness, Mr. Ovide Mercredi, the Grand National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, to make a presentation, please.
Presentation By Assembly Of First Nations
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Page 1120
Mercredi
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. First, I want to begin by acknowledging the Government Leader , Nellie Cournoyea , and thank her and the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , for inviting us, the Assembly of First Nations, to appear before your Assembly.
Before I proceed, I want to convey, on behalf of the people I represent, our deepest sympathies to the family members of the miners who died in the unfortunate accident that occurred in your territory, to wish upon your government, and the people of this community, our best hopes that you will quickly find a resolution that will be respectful of the rights of the workers, and will be done in the spirit of eliminating the potential for conflict and confrontation.
This is contrary to the values and the traditions of the people that I represent, that historically, in terms of white/Indian relations in Canada, the best efforts on both sides have been to try to find peaceful solutions to troubling problems. That is the context that we should look at when we assess the gains that were made at the constitutional table at this time. It offers a road to peace. It provides a path where two governments, two nations, two distinct peoples, can sit down to begin to harmonize their common experience in this part of North America.
For the First Nations, it means the end of dominance, the end of dominance of one society over another for too long, particularly since the formation of Canada as a nation state. Our people have been subjected to the political will of parliament without our involvement, and without our consent. The Indian Act, which is a law passed by parliament, is the political will of the dominant society, not the political will of the people I represent. That is not who they are, that is not how they choose to live, and that is not how they choose to govern themselves.
For some reason, parliament took it upon themselves shortly after its establishment, to create a department solely dedicated to eradicating from the Indian Nation what is uniquely Indian. The sole objective of these laws of dominance have been to assimilate the Indian people, so that they will abandon their own distinct identity, this part of North America.
Those days were never welcomed by our people 100 years ago, and they are not welcome in 1992. So, the constitutional amendments, if they survive the test of the people, will not only end dominance, but for people who have spent all their lives fighting for the recognition of their rights, it means that they can now concentrate on the future, not in fighting for recognition, but ensuring the implementation of these rights. There are many people, far too many Indian people in this room, who have spent their entire adult life in the struggle for the collective rights of the people that I represent.
It would be far better for them, far better for our people, if they were free from that fight, so that they could concentrate on rebuilding our economies, on strengthening our cultures, on healing our people, in a recovery of our nations. It is far better that we get involved using our limited energies and resources in the healing of our people, than wasting our time like we do ad nauseam, fighting other governments, so they can recognize our rights.
The constitutional promise in the future is that we have the potential now to put that fight behind us, and to move into a new era where we jointly sit down to devise ways of ensuring that the rights of the people I represent are respected in Canada, and are implemented according the values and the priorities of the people that I represent. The inherent right, and its recognition in the Constitution, is very important for many reasons, including psychological reasons.
For the Indian children who now go to school to learn about not their place in history, but the place of the colonials in history, they will in the future learn about something called the third order of government. They will know that the Constitution recognizes their inherent right to govern themselves, and that the whole purpose for those provisions is to ensure that our people can maintain a distinct way of life, that they are not forced to assimilate, that being different is not being inferior, and that our people have a right to be different.
It will mean that the young children, when they open the books to study history, social studies, or political science, they will know that they are equals, that their collective rights are second to none in Canada.
They will see themselves in a different way. They will know that this country respects their people, respects their people's rights. For young people, this is extremely important for their self-esteem, for their self-respect. In relation to us as a collective, as First Nations, it is also very significant in our relations with Canada as a nation state, in our dealing with government, because the Constitution will require the federal, and the provincial governments to recognize that we have an inherent right to govern ourselves, that this right does not come from the Indian Act, that it does not come from
an Act of Parliament, and that the source is not the Constitution. We are using the recognition in the Constitution as a way of ensuring that the rule of law, something that Canadians respect, is not, in the future, used against the interest of the people that we represent. So, the inherent right, by its recognition, will force governments to look upon other governments on an equal basis. This will bring about different relations.
Here, in this particular territory, the federal government pretends the First Nations do not exist, because the entire devolution program in relation to services, and public services for people, is from the federal government to this government. For some reason, Indian government has not managed to fit into that equation, and why is that?
There is no justifiable reason why the Indian people here, the First Nations in the Northwest Territories, cannot have access to the same public services that their brothers and sisters have south of the 60th parallel. That will change. With the constitutional amendments, that will change.
The first provision tells the courts and the governments, that in the future when they interpret treaty rights, such things like education, health, and economic assistance. They must give a just, broad and liberal
interpretation, taking into consideration, into account, the spirit and intent of the treaties, and the context of negotiations. This is an extremely important provision for the treaty people, because it gives them an opportunity that they do not have right now to say to governments, "you are obligated to interpret the treaty consistent with the Indian perspective." More than that, they can also rely on another provision in the Constitution that will ensure that they have nation to nation bilateral discussions with the federal government, so that they can implement their treaties consistent with the spirit and intent of those treaties.
This means that after 125 years, what our people negotiated will have to be respected by the federal government. It means that what happened to our treaties must be remedied, and across this country, right now as I am talking, Indian people are still waiting for their treaty land entitlement, 100 years or more after the signing of the treaty. There is absolutely no justification for that delay in terms of the enjoyment of that right. None. No one can justify that, and yet it happened, not in South Africa, but in Canada.
The Constitution, if it survives the test of the people, will ensure that the treaties are respected, and that the honour of Canada is maintained in relation to those treaties. No one can say, no one can, that these are small achievements, these are major accomplishments.
They are not, of course, an answer to all the demands, but we must not forget that this is only a step forward, and that we will have opportunities to build on this, to improve upon it, to make it even better for our people in the future, because part of the solution, if the Constitution is amended, is that our people will have at least four further First Ministers' conferences to look forward to, where they can deal with outstanding issues that might not have resulted to their satisfaction this time around.
It may be, and I hope it is true, that in 1996, when our people sit down with the governments again to talk about constitutional matters, that they will be dealing with a more enlightened leadership in Canada than there has been, although, you must admit, we made major progress, in that context, in the context of progress. We have many people to thank for the achievements that we have made. This government, the Northwest Territories government, under the leadership of Nellie Cournoyea and Stephen Kakfwi , have always been there to back the aboriginal leaders in their demands. They never wavered one moment, and we thank them for their commitment, to the people of this territory.
---Applause
I just want to conclude my remarks, sirs and madams, by making some references to the potential for the future, in terms of improving race relations in Canada. Indian people live under the limelight of stereotypes, stereotypes we did not create, and these stereotypes have been impediments to our humanity, they have been impediments to our human progress in North America.
The constitutional amendments will bring about a new thinking in Canada. A thinking based on respect for collective rights, respect for First Nations, and respect for others.
The ultimate promise of the constitutional amendments, if they survive, is to improve racial attitudes in Canada, to make it easier for us to be accepted as equals, because after all, the supreme law, the Constitution of Canada will read, that treaty and aboriginal rights are recognized, the inherent right to self-government is recognized and protected, the treaty rights are recognized, and are to be honoured, and that the Indian people will have, not an inferior level of government, but a third order of government in Canada.
Canadians across this country will be required by their own educational institutions, to re-examine the stereotypes of the Indian people, to begin to see us for what we are, as equal human beings who have collective rights, that need to be guaranteed by the nations state, and this is what we have achieved. For that, I am thankful.
---Applause
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 1122
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you, the Grand National Chief Mercredi. On my order paper for the speakers, I have Ms. Rosemarie Kuptana, President of the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada, as the next speaker. Ms. Kuptana.
Presentation By Inuit Tapirisat Of Canada
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Page 1122
Kuptana
On October 26, the people of Canada will participate in a national referendum, in which they will be asked to accept or reject the agreement for constitutional renewals, signed in Charlottetown on August 28, 1992.
Inuit have been involved in constitutional discussions for many years, and have not hesitated to reject government proposals that were not in the best interests of Inuit and other aboriginal peoples.
We decided to support the Charlottetown Accord because it includes features which recognize our rights as aboriginal people, and because it is a part of an overall package that is good for Canada and good for all Canadians.
Although there are aspects of the accord that are difficult for us to accept on balance, we believe that this is a good agreement. The proposed constitutional amendments entrench our inherent right to self-government, and constitutionally recognize our governments as one of three orders of government in Canada. These are historic breakthroughs.
In the Canada clause and the context clause, our right to protect and promote our languages, cultures and the integrity of our society is affirmed. This is an historic achievement for aboriginal peoples.
Inuit worked hard to ensure that the accord clearly recognized aboriginal governments as one of three orders of government. We are pleased that this statement is included, both in the Canada clause, and in a proposed amendment to part two of the Constitution.
Let me explain the importance of this amendment by referring to self-government developments within the government of the Northwest Territories. Inuit acknowledge the G.N.W.T.'s initiatives and policies on the transfer of government services and programs to local communities. However, these undertakings will be limited by the constitutional and legal status of the territorial and municipal governments.
At the present time, as described in
section 91 and 92 of the Constitution, it is only the federal government and the provinces which have recognized powers and authorities. The G.N.W.T. does not have the constitutionally recognized jurisdictions, and has only those powers delegated to it by parliament. Therefore, no protection exists for agreements on program transfers to the local level. These can be unilaterally modified or changed by government at a later date.
If Inuit conclude self-government agreements, as contemplated by the Charlottetown Accord, then all aspects of these agreements will be constitutionally protected. Furthermore, as a third order government, our powers and authorities could not be unilaterally changed by either the federal or the territorial governments.
Within our jurisdiction, our laws would be paramount to and override laws of general application. Unlike the G.N.W.T., our governmental powers would be constitutionally based, and not delegated from a higher level of government. This is the meaning of the term third order of government.
Therefore, although Inuit encourage the G.N.W.T. to continue transferring greater control to the local levels, we must be prepared to adapt, so that opportunities created by these constitutional amendments, can be fully realized.
Inuit were also pleased that the Charlottetown Accord includes significant achievements for the territorial government. Inuit maintained a cooperative relationship with the G.N.W.T. throughout the multilateral process, and assisted the G.N.W.T. during discussions of very important issues, such as the creation of new provinces.
I will now turn to an issue that has gained considerable public attention, the effect of the accord on the rights of aboriginal women. First of all, let me emphasize the important role Inuit women played in developing the present package. As most of you know, Mary Simon, of northern Quebec, and I, represented Inuit throughout these negotiations along with another Inuk woman, Premier Cournoyea.
We were the only women at the table during the First Ministers' meetings. Furthermore, Inuit women through Pauktuutit, our national womens' organization, have participated in developing Inuit constitutional positions and retain a seat on the I.T.C. board, and on all our I.T.C. constitutional committees.
At the very beginning of these constitutional discussions, I.T.C. proposed a simple, direct, and explicit statement requiring aboriginal governments to recognize gender equality rights. To understand why this proposal did not get included in the accord, we must examine the Native Women's Association of Canada, or N.W.A.C.'s position during the constitutional discussions.
At one point during the negotiations, N.W.A.C. agreed to a gender equality clause unacceptable to Inuit, because it significantly qualified gender equality rights by making these rights subject to traditional aboriginal cultural practices. Inuit have always believed that gender equality is a basic human right, and should not be subject to modifications, whatsoever. Although N.W.A.C. later withdrew its support for the amendment, the Inuit position had been undermined.
After N.W.A.C. put forward these contradictory positions, we were not able to get the Inuit amendments back onto the table. Despite this, it is our view that womens' gender equality rights are not prejudiced by the accord. In particular, we believe that sections 28 and 35(4) of the 1982 Constitution Act continue to protect Inuit and other women. We are confident that the proposed constitutional amendments will not, in any way, diminish
section 28 and 35(4) gender equality rights.
The significance of the accord for aboriginal peoples cannot be overstated. If passed, it will be the first time in our history that we are admitted into Canada as full and equal partners. Inuit have waited a long time for this opportunity; we have struggled for many years to be recognized as equals in Canada. We greatly appreciate the distances many governments have travelled on aboriginal issues during this process. As Inuit, we are encouraged, and we are revitalized.
However, nothing has been handed to us, we have fully participated. We have persuaded and we have argued, we have listened, we have exchanged views, we have drafted legal texts, and we have attended an exhausting series of ministerial and officials meetings. We have built on the hard work of the Inuit leadership over the years, and we have them to thank for the agreement that we have today.
The achievements of the last months seem so remarkable because we have waited so long. Equality and justice are just within our reach. With the October 26 vote on the horizon, our hopes have never been higher.
---Applause
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1123
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you, President Rosemarie Kuptana, for your presentation. I would now like to ask Mr. Philip Fraser, Vice-President of the Native Council of Canada. Mr. Fraser.
Presentation By Native Council Of Canada
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1123
Fraser
Thank you. On behalf of my board, and President Ron George, I would like to thank the Members of the Legislative Assembly and Mr. Kakfwi , for inviting us here to share some our thoughts on the current constitutional document that we soon will be voting on, later in October.
I think that it is important that the people who played a
part in this process get out and explain the package to, not only to our people, but to all Canadians and to Members, such as yourself, who will have to deal with this at some point in time. So, again, thank you for the invitation, and I look forward to possibly exchanging some views through this process.
We have all been part of an historic process. We have all played a role in its success. I would particularly like to compliment your leaders, especially your Premier Nellie Cournoyea , and your Minister of Aboriginal Affairs Stephen Kakfwi , for the constructive role they played in the process, which led to the Charlottetown Accord.
I am happy to report that we enjoyed a close and positive working relationship with them, and their officials, throughout. It was rare for us not to be in agreement with each other at the table or in the corridors. That was because many of our goals, going into the talks, were synonymous. In our presentation today we would like to call attention to some of the gains that we feel have been made in the Charlottetown Agreement, gains for aboriginal peoples in general, and gains for off-reserve, non-status and Metis peoples, in particular. In both cases, the impact of these gains will be felt directly in your part of the country.
We would also like to share some of what we feel are the important lessons that can be learned from the process. Before getting into this, however, I would like to clarify a bit about the Native Council, itself, so that everyone around the table will have a clear sense of where we fit in, and what our priorities have been in the current round of constitutional talks.
The Native Council of Canada was formed in 1971 to represent the interest of those thousands of aboriginal peoples in Canada who have been denied recognition under the Indian Act. The fact that so many people could be denied their basic identity must be seen as one of the greatest scandals of Canada's 125 year history. We all know that when Canada was formed in 1867, the federal government was given the jurisdictional responsibility for Indians and land reserved for Indians in
Section 91(24) of the British North America Act.
In theory, this should have meant that it had responsibility for all aboriginal peoples. The courts certainly took this approach when they ruled in 1939 that, for purposes of the law, the term Indian could be presumed to include Inuit as well. In practice, the federal government never allowed it to work out that way. From the beginning, when treaties were being signed, the government imposed its own unilateral decisions about who was aboriginal.
Metis across the prairies, for example, were denied inclusion in treaties, and were either completely ignored, or were offered script, which in many cases, they lost soon after to swindlers and land speculators acting in collusion with government officials. It took 115 years before Metis were officially acknowledged in the Constitution as aboriginal people, and then came the Indian Act. Ever since it was introduced in the 1800s, it has been the principle tool by which Ottawa has denied aboriginal people their identity, either by rejecting it in the first place, or by inventing a litany of reasons for taking it away.
It is no mere coincidence that the Indian Act regime enabled Ottawa to reduce the scope of its own responsibilities, to the point where, today it claims to have legal obligations only for status Indians living on reserves. In 1992 our estimates suggest that this represents only about 23 percent of the aboriginal population in Canada. The Native Council of Canada was formed in 1971 precisely to fight artificial barriers imposed by the Indian Act, and to seek recognition and justice for the thousands upon thousands of people who have been arbitrarily separated from their lands, their communities, and their culture by a century of government discrimination.
There can be no question that these policies have also been enormously successful at dividing us amongst ourselves, by creating artificial categories, status, non-status, registered, treaty, both pre-Confederation and post-Confederation, C-31 etc., and imposing them upon us. The government has succeeded in distorting the relations we have historically had with one another, as individuals, as communities, and as nations. These artificial categories imposed by Ottawa under the Indian Act, have no relationship to our historical realities.
There are those among us who have been willing to adopt a government system, and use it to exclude their aboriginal brothers and sisters, as proof we only have to look south to the words of the treaties Six and Seven chiefs. They just spent tens of thousand of dollars on an ad in the Globe and Mail last Thursday, September 24, to tell Canadians that the only true indigenous people are those who, in effect, have status, and live on reserves. In other words, those who have been acknowledged by the government as official Indians, under its colonial Indian Act regime. That is not the way it needs to be.
Coming here to the north, I do not need to tell you that, because it is here north of 60 that the government's artificial divisions have had less impact than anywhere else in the country. In Yukon, for example, we have perhaps the best example of people taking control of their identity. This has been the case for almost two decades now, since the Council of Yukon Indians was formed, and there were two organizations that have previously represented status and non-status people separately.
Despite opposition from the Department of Indian Affairs, C.Y.I. has demonstrated that Ottawa's categories are false categories, that they have no place in our politics, and our communities. We are in our aspirations for the future. Here in the Northwest Territories, the divisions between people have been more real in terms of culture and history. It has not prevented people from working together.
The Dene Nation has traditionally made itself open to all Indians, and Metis in the MacKenzie valley, who wish to join. The Metis, in turn, have continued to seek respect for their unique identity, but have nonetheless been willing to collaborate of shared importance, such as settlement of a comprehensive claim. While the relationship between the two has not been without its rough spots, you should know that it has nonetheless been an example to those of us in other parts of Canada who have been trying to build unity, in spite of Ottawa's continuing attempts to divide us.
In the recent round of constitutional negotiations, we shared many of the same goals as other aboriginal organizations, and of your government. One, to see the inherent right to self-government recognized and entrenched; to have it recognized as one of three orders of government in Canada; to become regular participants in future First Ministers' conferences; to secure guaranteed aboriginal representation in parliament; to protect gender equality between men and women without jeopardizing the position of women in traditional matrilineal systems; and to ensure that new provinces could enter confederation on the same terms that other provinces had before.
We are pleased, of course, that most, if not all, of these objectives have been met. Given the slow, incremental, pace at which constitutional change normally takes place, we think that the broad range of changes now being proposed represent a very significant achievement. Given the Native Council of Canada's historical mandate, however, it should come as no surprise that our greatest satisfaction comes from the inclusion of clauses that are designed to ensure equity of access for all aboriginal peoples.
Native Council of Canada went into this round of negotiations with the hopes of obtaining its own Triple E, not an equal elected and effective Senate, but rather three clauses that would ensure that officers, non-status, and Metis people, would no longer be discriminated against, and I am happy to say that we did it.
We secured agreement, for example, that all aboriginal peoples, including non-status and off-reserve Indians, as well as Metis, would be able to exercise their
section 35, aboriginal and treaty rights. We secured agreement that all aboriginal peoples, including non-status and off-reserve Indians, will be able to participate in any ....
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1124
The Chair
John Ningark
Mr. Fraser, I am told by the interpreters that you should slow down a bit with your presentation. We use about eight different languages in this House. Proceed, please.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1124
Fraser
... and we secured agreement that all aboriginal peoples, including non-status and off-reserve Indians, and Metis, would be able to access the process for negotiating self-government agreements. This means that no matter where they live, whether in Rainbow Valley, or downtown Toronto, we will be able to negotiate arrangement which will let us assume control of our lives.
In addition, we also secured an agreement to amend
section 91.24, to make it clear that Ottawa's fiduciary obligations apply to all aboriginal peoples, not just status Indians living on reserves. This makes it clear that Metis are included under federal jurisdiction. The inclusion of these various equity of access clauses represents a break through for non-status and off-reserve peoples, as well as for Metis. In terms of historic significance, we think these provisions can be likened to the breaking down of the Berlin Wall, to the extent that they will mean the removal of artificial barriers that have stood in the way of peoples' right to self-determination.
If these proposed amendments are ratified by the Canadian public in the upcoming referendum, as well as by parliament, and the required Legislatures. We feel it will be the end of an era of Canadian history that has been marked by discrimination and dishonour. If the Charlottetown Accord passes, it will be the dawn of a new era for Canada, characterized by unity, and hope. In addition to the substantive gains that have been made, we think that important lessons have been learned from the process we have all just gone through.
While public opinion helped to get our issues on the agenda for this round of talks, I do not think there is any question that one of the reasons we were able to conclude such an expansive agreement was because we were in the room to negotiate.
Our inclusion in the multilateral negotiations was unprecedented, and I do not think we left any doubt that we belong there. When we look back over the weeks of direct negotiations that took place, it is possible to recall literally hundreds of points where one government or another had some questions, concern, or problem with one or another of our positions. If we had not been in the room to hear these concerns, and address them as they arose, the entire aboriginal agenda could have run aground on any one of them, and ended up going nowhere.
By being in the room, we were able to hear precisely what the problems were, explain ourselves more fully, and come up with some specific ways of dealing with the problem. Had we not been in the room, none of this could have happened, and no deal would have been reached. The lesson is that including people works. It does not interfere with the process, it improves it, and the end results are better.
Looking ahead, the Native Council will be developing tools which will help its constituents answer the question, "where do we go from here?"
I would like to table with you today one such document which the N.C.C. commissioned a few months ago. It is titled, "Self-Government for Aboriginal Peoples Living in Urban Areas." It was done by a couple of academics from the Institute of Intergovernmental Affairs at Queens University. Basically what it does is it tries to identify the questions that are going to have to be asked by anyone wanting to exercise self-government outside of a reserve situation. As much as possible, it also attempts to identify the options and response to each question, at least to the extent to which they can be known at this date.
That is what the N.C.C. sees as its role in the future. We have done the political and legal work to have the rights of non-status and off-reserve peoples recognized. From now on, our job will be to provide support to those people, so they can exercise those rights on the ground in whatever way meets their particular needs.
Here in the Northwest Territories, we will continue to work with the Metis Nation, and anyone else who is interested in drawing upon us. We will do research that will help people identify the possibilities for themselves in various situations across the country. We will develop "How To" manuals to help them get started, and we will continue to reach out to non-aboriginal Canadians, so they feel they know what is happening around them, and remain supportive of it.
Thank you once again for your invitation, and I would be happy to answer any particular questions you may have about the N.C.C., and its position.
I would also like to table a copy of our Parallel Process Report that was conducted last spring, as well as a brief information sheet on the Native Council itself. Thank you.
---Applause
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1125
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you, Vice-President Fraser. The next speaker that I have here is, Mr. Tony Belcourt, of the Metis National Council. Mr. Belcourt.
Presentation By Metis National Council
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1125
Belcourt
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank you, and I thank the Members of the Legislature, for inviting us to participate in this very important debate in your Legislature. I, too, on behalf of Yvon Dumont of the Metis National Council, want to express sympathies to the families who were involved in your most unfortunate mining accident. I would also like to take a moment to acknowledge the history of the support of the government of the Northwest Territories, to the Metis of the Northwest Territories.
My particular relationship with your government, and with the Metis in the Northwest Territories, spans some 22 years. I am pleased to see a Legislature like this. I think, that 22 years ago, when I first came to the north, to organize for the Metis Association of the Northwest Territories, I do not know if I would have envisaged a day when, people back then, who were organizing together, would one day be sitting in a Legislature in command of the government, and I would have the unique opportunity of appearing in this Legislature.
Outstanding community leaders like Nellie Cournoyea , James Arvaluk , and James Wah-Shee, were back in those days. Now, I see that your government is lead by people like this, that 22 years ago, it did not seem to me, that I would ever see that. I want to sincerely congratulate all of you who have been elected to this Legislature, we have made remarkable progress in Canada. We have come a long distance in this past year, it seems light years, in constitutional terms, and we have many distances that we can travel together in the future, hopefully once the current referendum is over.
I want to welcome the resolutions that have been proposed in support of the Charlottetown Agreement. I want to acknowledge the work of the Bourque Commission, that helped bring you to this conclusion. One thing that I would like to point out, is our observation that the Bourque Commission recognizes the commonality of the issues of the Metis Nation, throughout the Metis homeland, from Ontario right through to the Northwest Territories. The Bourque Commission called for the kinds of changes that we are now going to see in the Constitution, that will finally bring a level playing field to all of the aboriginal peoples in Canada, including the Metis people.
I share in many of the comments, and observations, that were made by Minister Kakfwi , with the exceptions of the comments concerning the Metis Nation Accord, which I would like to speak to a little later.
I have been asked by our national president to come here, and to make certain that you understand, from the Metis National Council's point of view, exactly where we are coming from. We are clear supporters of the Charlottetown Agreement. Today, we are registering the Metis Nation, "yes" Canada Committee with Elections Canada, and we will be working hard to try and sell this deal across the country. We hope that once your Legislature has dealt with your resolutions, that you, too, will be working hard in support of this referendum.
This campaign of ours is important because we have to explain the contents, and the benefits, of the package. It is a very complex package. We have to correct misinformation that is now being circulated by many people, primarily on the "no" side, and we have to create a better understanding of the process. The one that leads up to the Charlottetown Accord, and that is going to be going on into the future.
With regard to the process, I can assure you that your representatives at the table, Premier Cournoyea and Minister Kakfwi , not only were stalwart supporters of our objectives, at our end of the table, but they represented the interests of the Northwest Territories in, I think, the finest way and tradition that you would like to see it. There is no question in my mind, that the protection that you were seeking, when your representatives came to the multilateral talks, you are now going to get.
I think it would be helpful to remind some people about the historical relationship between the Metis and the Northwest Territories. We share a common history that goes back 122 years. When Canada was first formed, in 1867, Canada's borders only came to a little bit past Thunder Bay. None of the area, north and west of Thunder