Debates of May 29th, 1997

This is page numbers 1191 - 1211 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was federal .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Constitutional Working Group Update

Nunavut Unified Human Resource Development Strategy

Constitutional Working Group

Ministers Absent From The House

Tribute To Lydia Kalluk

Report To Indian Agent - March, 1953

Public Library Services

Dew Line Site Clean-up Agreement

Tribute To Isaac Irngaut

Northern Employment Strategy

Student Graduates Hiring Practices

354-13(4): Support For Educational Opportunities

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Pay Equity

Inuvik Hospital Replacement Project

Dew Line Site Clean-up

Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Budget Cuts To Beaufort Delta Region

Changes To Keewatin Dental Therapy Program

Funding For Hunters And Trappers

Item 7: Written Questions

Written Question 27-13(4): Grades Of Fuel In Use

Written Question 28-13(4): Electronic Access To Information

Establishment Of Parks

Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Enuaraq , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable Manitok Thompson , Honourable John Todd .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1191

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Groenewegen. Good afternoon. On behalf of the Honourable Sam Gargan, the Speaker, I would like to welcome to the Legislative Assembly today three of the four surviving carvers who worked on the original mace, Lukta Qiatsuk, Kovianaktuliak Parr and Ashevak Ezekiel from Cape Dorset. Unfortunately, Oshawetuk Ipeelie is not with us today. I would also like to recognize and welcome Madelaine Canadien and Mary Agnes Matto-Bonnetrouge of Fort Providence who made the quillwork for the replica mace.

As you know the mace represents the legislative authority of the House and without it we would not be able to pass any laws. The original mace was made in 1955 by nine carvers from Cape Dorset. As many of you may know Mr. Gargan travelled to Cape Dorset last month with the Honourable Goo Arlooktoo to commemorate the excellent work that carvers from Cape Dorset did on the original mace. While there, Mr. Gargan discovered that the four surviving carvers had never seen the completed mace so he invited them to Yellowknife to see the fruits of their labour.

As you can see, the original mace is on display here today in the Assembly for the first time in many years. It is indeed a work of art and reflects the talent that exists in many of our northern communities.

Equally important is the work of those northerners involved with the replica mace, the one that we use in the Legislative Assembly today. Madelaine Canadien and Mary Agnes Matto-Bonnetrouge were both part of that project.

Mr. Gargan has recommended that this mace should be retired in 1999 when division occurs and that a new mace be made for Nunavut and one for the western territory. If new maces are made for each territory I encourage all northerners to get involved in making maces that truly reflect their culture, people and region. Thank you.

-- Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 79-13(4): Constitutional Working Group Update

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1191

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker and my colleagues. Mr. Speaker, the Constitutional Working Group publicly released the document, Partners in a New Beginning in October, 1996. The document includes ideas on how a western territory could govern itself following division in 1999. The Constitutional Working Group is a partnership including representatives from the Aboriginal Summit, and representatives of the Western Caucus of the NWT Legislative Assembly. The western MLA's on the working group represent all western NWT residents, both aboriginal and non-aboriginal. I co-chair the Constitutional Working Group with Mr. George Kurszewski of the Aboriginal Summit.

Since the release of the Partners document the Constitutional Working Group has consulted with the general public and federal government on the proposed models for a new government structure for the western NWT after division. At the most recent meeting of the working group, which was held on May 14th and 15th, Members reviewed and discussed the results of the initial round of formal public consultations. In direct response to comments and suggestions raised by the public, the Constitutional Working Group has made a number of decisions on the timing and process for constitutional change, including how the Constitutional Working Group operates.

Successfully carrying out many of these decisions will depend on securing long term federal and territorial financial support. The Constitutional Working Group will be seeking a meeting with the new Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs as soon as possible after the federal election to secure political and financial support from the federal government. More specifically, the Constitutional Working Group has agreed that:

- The October 1997 plebiscite on a western constitutional package will be rescheduled to a later date;

- April 1, 1999 should be set as a goal, not a deadline for sending a ratified constitutional package to the federal government. Residents must not be rushed into making decisions on the constitutional package before they are ready;

- A second formal round of consultations will take place in late fall and early winter of 1997 and 1998;

- Future consultations will involve both formal meetings and less formal workshops with individuals and organizations in the communities and regions;

- Constitutional Working Group members will play a more prominent role in the second round of consultations. Members will participate in more community meetings and assist the public in understanding the rationale behind the revised package;

- Information provided prior to the second round of consultations will include more options on a new western government;

- The options will continue to take into account concerns which have been expressed by the federal government;

- A constitutional conference will be planned for the spring of 1998 to allow western leaders and community representatives to review a revised Partners' document; and

- Future meetings of the Constitutional Working Group will be open to the public.

Decisions on the timing of a plebiscite to put the final constitutional package to the people will be made at a later date, in consultation with residents of the western NWT, the Aboriginal Summit and the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, the Constitutional Working Group has heard and responded to the various suggestions brought forward by residents during the initial round of public consultation. These suggestions relate to how the Constitutional Working Group operates and the constitutional proposals prepared for public consideration.

The working group meeting on May 14th and 15th also addressed the companion self-government agreement which is a key element of the western constitutional package. The Aboriginal Summit will continue to play the lead role in developing the companion agreement while the Constitutional Working Group remains responsible for developing a revised Northwest Territories Act which is the other key element of the package.

On an administrative note, I wish to announce that Mr. Fred Koe, who has served as the executive director of the working group, has asked to step down to focus his attention on his duties as the chair of the Workers' Compensation Board. Understanding the importance of maintaining a dedicated focus on the constitutional initiative, the working group is pleased to announce that Mr. Steve Iveson will take over the Constitutional Working Group's executive director position. Mr. Iveson is on loan to the working group from the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and brings tremendous experience and energy to the position.

I wish to express the appreciation of the Constitutional Working Group to our former executive director, Mr. Fred Koe.

We have listened to the people and commit to involving interested residents of the Western Territory in the shaping of their new government after division. We must work together to shape a government which addresses the needs of all stakeholders in the North. The Constitutional Working Group is working to achieve this objective. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 79-13(4): Constitutional Working Group Update

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1192

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Ministers' statements. The honourable Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 80-13(4): Nunavut Unified Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1192

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Education, Culture and Employment is currently negotiating an agreement for an additional $11 million, which will bring the department's total allocation for education and training in the three Nunavut regions to $108 million dollars during this fiscal year.

In the medium term, Nunavut Arctic College is receiving extra funding to provide more programs to help people prepare for positions that already exist, or will soon exist, in Nunavut. Seventeen courses involving more than 150 Inuit have been started. Although not all of these courses have yet concluded, we know that the success of the first year has been impressive. In 1997/98, another 30 diploma and certificate courses are being offered at a variety of locations. Some of the key programs offered are Management Studies, Corrections and Community Justice, Human Resource Training, and Community Lands Administration.

The strategy's long term component consists of an investment in youth and schools so that today's young people become tomorrow's public servants, wildlife officers, doctors, entrepreneurs and teachers. This long term component is essential in reaching and maintaining a representative workforce in Nunavut.

In providing more opportunities for education and training through the Nunavut Unified Human Resources Development Strategy, the territorial government is fulfilling its commitment to developing a representative public service in Nunavut. Mr. Speaker, it is also responding to the recommendations of the Nunavut Implementation Commission in Footprints in the New Snow and Footprints 2. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 80-13(4): Nunavut Unified Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1193

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Member's Statement 345-13(4): Constitutional Working Group

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as my colleague from Nahendeh indicated the Constitutional Working Group met recently in Yellowknife on May 14th and 15th to consider the results of its first round of consultations and to plan for the future. Aboriginal Summit representatives included George Kurszewski, Bob Simpson, Bill Erasmus and James Wah-Shee. The Western Caucus was represented by myself and Roy Erasmus . Jim Antoine and Charles Dent participated on behalf of western Ministers.

Officials representing the Status of Women, the NWT Native Women's Association and the federal government were also in attendance. The Northwest Territories Association of Municipalities was unable to attend the workshop. Minister Antoine has provided you with a

summary of the decisions made. In addition, the workshop provided representatives from the summit and the Western Caucus with an opportunity to confirm the following:

- That the constitutional working group will remain as a forum to manage the western constitutional process;

- That the constitutional working group continues to be a partnership between the aboriginal summit and the Western Caucus of this Assembly;

- That the western constitutional package will include a new NWT Act and a companion self-government agreement;

- That the Constitutional Working Group will continue to be the lead on development of a new act while the Aboriginal Summit will be responsible for the companion self-government agreement;

- That concerns raised in the first round of public consultations must be taken into account if the final package is to be acceptable to western NWT residents; and

- That federal concerns and interests must be taken into account if the final package is to receive federal approval.

Mr. Speaker, the Constitutional Working Group's Aboriginal Summit, Western Caucus partnership is key to reaching acceptable and workable constitutional arrangements for the west following division. We also look forward to continuing federal participation during the remainder of the process along with input from ex officio members representing women's organizations and the Association of Municipalities.

Moreover, the Constitutional Working Group is hopeful that opening its meetings to the public, western Arctic residents, organizations and media will gain a better understanding of our process, including the development of constitutional options for consideration by the public.

The Western Caucus remains firmly committed to the Constitutional Working Group process. Members will take a more active role in their communities and other constituencies to help reach a consensus which will eventually be submitted for ratification in the future plebiscite.

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Member's Statement 345-13(4): Constitutional Working Group

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Mr. Miltenberger , your time is up.

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Member's Statement 345-13(4): Constitutional Working Group

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I request unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 345-13(4): Constitutional Working Group

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? None. Proceed, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Member's Statement 345-13(4): Constitutional Working Group

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is anticipated that a vote on a name for the new western territory will occur at the same time as the constitutional vote. In closing, I wish to express my appreciation to the Constitutional Working Group's former executive director, Mr. Fred Koe. Mr. Koe worked hard with limited resources on a part time basis to help advance the process to where we are today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Member's Statement 345-13(4): Constitutional Working Group

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 346-13(4): Ministers Absent From The House

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1193

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today and speak on behalf of Members of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. This session of the Legislative Assembly is a short one. We will be here for less than two weeks. During this time we will deal with a number of pieces of legislation and other critical items, like the Northern Employment Strategy announced yesterday by the Minister of Finance .

Members have been aware of the dates for this session for over three months. Most of us have made adjustments in order to be here. We expect the same of Ministers. We recognize that there are some circumstances beyond the Ministers' control which prevent them from being in the House. For example, the Ordinary Members know the Premier did not have the ability to change the timing of the western Premiers meeting currently underway. However, we want to express a concern about planning. On our first day in this House on Tuesday only four Ministers were present. This severely restricted the areas where Ordinary Members can ask questions and hope to get answers.

Mr. Speaker, we know that each Minister was absent for what they saw as very legitimate reasons. We do not wish to pass judgement on those reasons. However, the high number of Ministers absent has disrupted the business of the first two days of an eight or nine day session. In the future, there is a need for Cabinet as a whole to review Ministers' other commitments. The Premier and Cabinet may need to priorize the activities of Ministers to ensure there is a strong Cabinet presence in the House at all times.

Mr. Speaker, Ordinary Members have many questions from their constituents. We need to ask these questions in the House so people can hear the answers. We expect that Cabinet also wants to make sure people get good information about what the government is doing. Mr. Speaker, in order to allow both Cabinet and Ordinary Members to do their jobs effectively, we would request that the Premier and his Ministers make every effort to be in the House for Members' statements and question period every day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Member's Statement 346-13(4): Ministers Absent From The House

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ootes . Member for High Arctic , Mr. Barnabas .

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Member's Statement 347-13(4): Tribute To Lydia Kalluk

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a Member's statement in regard to an individual who was a Member of the Legislative Assembly. (Translation ends) I would like to express my sincere condolences and prayers to the family of Mr. Harold Kalluk and also to my predecessor Mr. Ludy Pudluk on the passing of their mother, Lydia Kalluk, who had the maiden name of Inoogok. She passed away on May 24, 1997. She was born near Pond Inlet on August 1, 1923 and she arrived in Resolute Bay in 1958-59 with her husband Harold Kulluk with her eight children.

Three more children were born in Resolute Bay after she arrived there. Altogether there are ten children who are adults today.

Mrs. Kalluk had a tremendous impact and respect in the community of Resolute, this being a midwife between 1958 and 1960 or until nurses arrived in Resolute. She has been a very influential and important lady to the community of Resolute. Mrs. Lydia Kalluk will be missed and remembered for her important role as a midwife, as a great mother and a great grandmother. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 347-13(4): Tribute To Lydia Kalluk

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas . On behalf of the Legislative Assembly, I would like to pass our condolences to the families. Member's statements, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Member's Statement 348-13(4): Report To Indian Agent - March, 1953

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

Stephen Kakfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is the time of year when many of our constituents go out on the land to harvest those resources that they believe are theirs to harvest and manage. Having said that, it has always been said that this is a very peaceful and serene land, especially for naive tourists and visitors from different parts of the world. But beneath the surface issues are always emerging. In recent decades a struggle has become evident. Having said that, I wish to read to you a letter that if I had been responsible for wildlife 44 years ago, I would have had the benefit of receiving first hand.

This is a report to the Indian agent by Warden O. F. Eliason of Fort Good Hope in March, 1953. Mr. Eliason, reporting to the Indian agent in Ottawa, I believe, wrote at that time:

"Paul Voudrank, a local character wrote to the Prime Minister by registered mail complaining of having to trap beaver as opposed to being able to shoot them, complaining of persecution of the natives by the whites and requesting that the warden be removed and the game laws abolished as the natives could look after their country. Mr. Voudrank received an answer from head of Indian Affairs telling him to trap beaver, et cetera.

I was shown this letter by the writer and would like to state that the writer summed up the situation very well with regards to the whys and hows of game branch policies and the necessity of trapping beaver. However, Mr. Voudrank did not receive a letter from whom he called "the Head Game Warden Man." Mr. Voudrank is now busy telling the rest of the population that he sure makes him ashamed. Not be outdone by Mr. Voudrank..." Mr. Speaker, I would like unanimous consent to conclude please.

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Member's Statement 348-13(4): Report To Indian Agent - March, 1953

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? Proceed, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Member's Statement 348-13(4): Report To Indian Agent - March, 1953

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

Stephen Kakfwi

Thank you. This is a great letter. "Not to be outdone by Mr. Voudrank, the chief and a few others wrote to the Bishop of France, asking him to ensure a shooting season on beaver. The Bishop referred the matter to Senator Blais who contacted Indian Affairs and finally word was received by the Chief from Senator Blais which pointed out once more why they should trap their beaver. It is felt that the idea is slowly dawning on the native that he must obey the game ordinance and, at present many are preparing to go forth and trap.

Trapper James Jackson who has the status of a white called at my office in a very angry and violent mood. It seems as if Mr. Jackson is not in agreement with the registration of Manitou Island. He also appears anxious to become the game warden in Fort Good Hope. This man is well known to me as an agitator and is constantly spieling off to the natives with anti-registration, anti-game, anti-anything government propaganda.

Last summer, after a heated discussion with two sub Chiefs on registration in which I was told to "watch out or somebody may get shot," the natives left my office and stated that they were going to see Mr. Jackson to see what they should do now. It is felt that Jackson causes the department a great deal of trouble with his behind the back tactics. On his recent visit to my office, Mr. Jackson's language became so abusive that only the fact that I am an employee of the Canadian government prevented a large Jackson-shaped hole from appearing in the wall.

I mention these things to give the heads of this department an idea of some of the problems a warden can come up against in attempting to educate the native and carry out normal duties."

Thank you.

-- Laughter

-- Applause

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Member's Statement 348-13(4): Report To Indian Agent - March, 1953

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1194

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . The honourable Member for Hay River , Madam Groenewegen.

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Member's Statement 349-13(4): Public Library Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1195

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during the last session of the Assembly, there were many questions about the changes to public library services. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment has circulated a paper which includes a number of proposals for restructuring library services. The key elements are community ownership of 19 existing libraries, re-allocation of the budget to all 59 communities based on population, expansion of book depository and rotation service, integration of school and public libraries, and a focus on electronic access.

Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that most people will not notice until changes are made and the service levels dropped. However, the paper is causing concern among the front line people involved with community public libraries. The paper puts at risk the existing libraries which have evolved to meet the needs of their patrons. The proposed funding distribution, while administratively easy, does not recognize the value of the existing services. It makes the assumption that people use libraries primarily as a source of information or non-fiction and, therefore, there is an increased emphasis on electronic media. In reality, there is a far greater demand for fiction among all library users.

Public and school library users have very different needs. Many school libraries do not have staff yet and there needs to be some control over public library material. Adults may not feel comfortable looking for adult literacy material in a public school and opening public schools could present security challenges. Mr. Speaker, I believe there are many questions which need to be asked about proposed library restructuring and there are other options which should be considered. Later today, I will be asking the Minister some questions about this restructuring. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Member's Statement 349-13(4): Public Library Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1195

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Groenewegen. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit , Mr. Picco .

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Member's Statement 350-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up Agreement

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1195

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the recent announcement that the federal government has negotiated a deal with the United States for about $100 million for DEW line clean ups is unacceptable. The federal government is abdicating its responsibility and in Nunavut, NTI has reached an impasse with the Department of National Defence on the plan to clean up these sites.

Mr. Speaker, the $100 million announced is a convoluted sum. It is my understanding as reported in the media, it has a caveat that the money is to be spent or used as a credit for military equipment. That is unacceptable. The Department of National Defence still has not decided what to do with PCB-laden materials from the north's abandoned DEW line sites. The majority of which are located in Nunavut.

I have articulated these concerns in this House before because the Department of National Defence requested an exception to federal environment rules on the disposal and burying of PCB materials, like paint, by burying them in the ground.

If painted materials such as wood are burned improperly, there is the potential that the PCBs may be leached into the environment. In my riding of Iqaluit, we have seen the cost and time it took to clean up the upper base site. Also, in the constituency of Iqaluit, the Resolution Island site is, from all reports one of the most contaminated in the north, is still being investigated. Where will the money come from to clean up and restore these sites? Surely the Nunavut or new western government will not be expected to cover the cost which could be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe that this government has been as forceful as we should have been on this issue. I also think that during the current federal election, it could have been raised to bring attention to it. I also understand that Environment Canada has officially now turned down the request by the Department of National Defence to bury PCB laden material at the sites, ruling that the material, Mr. Speaker, is too toxic. We have to get aggressive on the whole issue of environmental clean ups of these military sites. The abdication, Mr.

Speaker, by the federal government on the recent agreement with the United States is unacceptable and it must be challenged. Mr. Speaker, later today I will ask our Minister for the Environment questions on these matters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 350-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up Agreement

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1195

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco . The honourable Member for Amittuq , Mr. Evaloarjuk .

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Member's Statement 351-13(4): Tribute To Isaac Irngaut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1195

Mark Evaloarjuk

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not wish to bear sad news, but it is a universal human thing that we feel sadness and compassion for others who have lost loved ones.

I would like to inform my colleagues that last week on May 19th, on my way to Yellowknife from Igloolik, there was a suicide. The man was Isaac Irngaut, who was 76 years old. I have known this man since my childhood, living in the same community with him. However, I do not know what his reasons were for his suicide. He was a very good man, a sober man all his life. Whenever he could, he would attend church and in the winter season, he would help the less fortunate, widowed women and the church by keeping their pathways clear of snow. He did this out of his own will and with no pay. Sometimes, though he would have difficulty walking as he had pain in his legs.

He will be greatly missed. He has many relatives, including his wife, his many daughters, sons and grandchildren. They will be in our prayers as we ask for their comfort and serenity. Mr. Speaker, I want to say to our younger generation that this should not be viewed as an acceptable option in life. In the old days among Inuit tradition, elders would commit suicide upon feeling or accepting that they could no longer contribute to their society and saw themselves as a burden to their people. I believe that Mr. Irngaut saw himself in that way. However, he still had much to give and I feel that this perception was not a true reflection of reality.

Mr. Speaker, we also feel compassion for Ludy Pudluk and his loved ones who have recently lost their mother. We will remember them in our prayers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

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Member's Statement 351-13(4): Tribute To Isaac Irngaut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1196

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk . These people and their relatives will be in our prayers. Thank you. (Translation ends) Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Member's Statement 352-13(4): Northern Employment Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1196

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to discuss the new Northern Employment Strategy that the Honourable Mr. Todd announced yesterday that will invest in our people. I feel that this will prove to be a very worthwhile program. It will bring the badly needed dollars into the right areas that we need it in. It is encouraging to see this government finally open its' purse strings and hopefully do some good in the important areas of training and job creation.

My hope now is that our overworked staff can the time to promote and distribute the information to the communities and the private businesses so that they can access the components of this which will start us on the road to a better economy and healthier and more prosperous way of life for a good number of our residents. In this House, we have stressed over and over the need for job creation and training. We feel that the government has listened and responded with very good initiatives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Member's Statement 352-13(4): Northern Employment Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1196

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca . The honourable Member for Yellowknife North , Mr. Erasmus .

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Member's Statement 353-13(4): Student Graduates Hiring Practices

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1196

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is on hiring graduates. Mr. Speaker, many of us in this Assembly have talked about the need to hire northerners. Others have also talked about student employment. I would like to talk about the missing link. That is what we do as a government to encourage employment for recent graduates. Mr. Speaker, we spend $12 million a year on student financial assistance, but what do we do to encourage those same students to take jobs in the north? Do we have entry level positions in our government and businesses so they have somewhere to start? I have not heard of very many.

Northern students have many other opportunities presented to them. Every fall recruiters descend on college and university campuses across the country. They search for the best and the brightest among the students in their final year. Of course, this includes our best and brightest as well. In contrast our students have to dig and scrape to make contacts in the north in most occupations.

I was told recently about a student who graduated in occupational therapy. Her letters to northern employers were not even acknowledged. So, she is staying in the south where she had four job offers. Mr. Speaker, travelling to every campus is expensive and I am not suggesting that we do that. However, there has to be a way to let students know about what opportunities are available here at home. At the same time, we need a system to help employers promote themselves to northern students. As a government, we also need to look at our organization.

Is it only open to those with experience or do we have entry level positions for new graduates? We also need to encourage other northern employers to create opportunities for new graduates. There are lots of creative things that can be done so that as a territory we can get some return for the dollars spent on student financial assistance.

We have to see our post-secondary students as a valuable resource. We need to reach out to them, actively encourage them to come home. Help them get over that no win situation of no job/no experience, no experience/no job. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 353-13(4): Student Graduates Hiring Practices

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1196

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus . Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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354-13(4): Support For Educational Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1196

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is in regards to education and the crucial need for students in the smaller communities to have that opportunity to be educated. Also for this government to put the resources in place to ensure that education is carried out and the resources and the teachers are in place to carry out the teaching out of our children and also the students in the communities. Mr. Speaker, I am talking in regards to the cuts that have been put in place in the Beaufort Delta region, some $500,000 and a 11.5 positions. Mr.

Speaker, when we talk about developing the north and developing the northern economy, it is also critical that we develop our human resources which are children and the students of the Northwest Territories. To allow them the ability to succeed in life and set their goals high to basically be what they want to be from astronauts to computer technicians to teachers to social workers.

When we make these drastic cuts in the education systems that are in place, we are not only denying the students the education that we need, but we are also impacting the economy of the north by not allowing those students to have the quality education that most Canadians take for granted. So at the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister of Education a question on this matter in relation to the cuts in the Beaufort Delta region and the effects it is having on the education of our students. Thank you.

-- Hear! Hear!

-- Applause

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354-13(4): Support For Educational Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1197

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions.

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 324-13(4): General Hunting License Applications

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1197

Stephen Kakfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to a question asked by Mr. Rabesca and Mr. Enuaraq on February 28, 1997. It is in regard to questions about the General Hunting Licence applications.

General Hunting Licence Applications

In the Northwest Territories (NWT) for the purposes of hunting, there is a General Hunting Licence called a GHL and a resident hunting licence.

To qualify for a resident hunting licence an applicant must have lived in the NWT for two years prior to the date of application. This licence is subject to seasons, limits or quotas and is issued along with the associated tags for a nominal fee.

To be a successful applicant for a GHL the applicant must meet the eligibility and residency requirements of subsection 15(1) of the Wildlife Act. Subsection 15(1) reads as follows:

"A general hunting licence be issued only to a person who:

(

a) immediately before July 1, 1979, held, was eligible to hold or was eligible except only for being underage to hold a general hunting licence under Item 1 of Column II of

Schedule A to the Game Ordinance, R.S.N.W.T. 1974, c. G-1.

(

b) is a resident, has at no time lived outside the Territories for a continuous period of five years or more, and at least one of whose parents:

(

i) is a resident and eligible under this paragraph or paragraph (

a) to hold a general hunting licence, or

(ii) immediately before death was a resident and then held or was then eligible to hold a general hunting licence other than one issued under paragraph (c), or Item 1 or 3 of Column II of

Schedule A to the Game Ordinance, R.S.N.W.T. 1974, c. G-1, or

(

c) has lived in the Territories continuously for the five years immediately preceding his or her application for the licence, and is a Canadian citizen or landed immigrant, and whose application is recommended by a Hunters' and Trappers' Association and is accepted by the Superintendent.

With regards to residency requirements there are exceptions for people who have lived outside the NWT for any period as students or to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces or the RCMP if he or she lived in the NWT immediately before the commencement of that period.

For GHLs issued under paragraph (

c) annual renewal is subject to continued support by the local Hunters' and Trappers' Association.

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Return To Question 324-13(4): General Hunting License Applications

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1197

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Returns to oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 201-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Development

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1197

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a short reply for David Krutko when he asked regarding funding for constitutional development. For the 1996/97 fiscal year, $284,000 in contribution funding and in-kind support has been provided to the Constitutional Working Group. The in-kind service included some salaries and travel costs for ministry staff and some Constitutional Working Group expenses. The Legislative Assembly and Department of Justice have also provided in-kind support to the Constitutional Working Group.

In response to the question regarding the amount of funding provided directly to aboriginal groups for self-government negotiations, the Government of the Northwest Territories has not provided any funding. The funding of the aboriginal group's participation in self-government negotiations is a federal responsibility. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 201-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Development

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 173-13(4): Funding For Western Constitutional Process

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1198

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it was asked by Mr. Steen on January 30th with respect to the government participation in the aboriginal self-government negotiations. Mr. Steen asked, on January 30th, about the status of the $1 million in additional funding for government participation in aboriginal self-government negotiations that have been approved by the FMB.

This funding was not included in 1997/98 main estimates, as the need for additional resources was not identified until last fall. The analysis of the social crime was not completed until January of this year. The $1,096,000 in incremental funding is included in the 1997/98 Supplementary Appropriations No. 1, which is scheduled for third reading today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 173-13(4): Funding For Western Constitutional Process

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Todd . Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Pat Thomas with the NWTTA. I am glad she is here today to here my comments on the cuts to education in the Beaufort region. Hopefully I can do something about it.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly Ms. Thomas. Mr. Antoine , recognition of visitors in the gallery.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Betty and Percy Hardisty, members of my constituency. Thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I believe that my special guests have just left the gallery, but for the record I would like to recognize Lutka Qiatsuk, Kovianaktuliak Parr, Ashevak Ezekiel, and Johnny Manning who are here for the mace recognition. They are the original builders of the mace. Thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome Eliza Kingham, who is the chaperon for the Iqaluit Pages this week and image consultant in Iqaluit. Thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Madam Groenewegen.

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Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1198

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned in my Member's statement, there are many outstanding concerns surrounding the proposed restructuring of public libraries. When this House met in February, the Minister responsible indicated that the proposal was still in the discussion stage. He indicated that there were lots of opportunities for librarians, library boards, and others to express their concerns. Could the Minister, today, please provide the House with an update on the status of the restructuring proposal? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1198

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, listening to the Member's statement today I was a bit concerned about what the tenor might be. I know that the statement yesterday, the Member had a very well thought out and reasoned argument for a fax based discussion on whether or not the NWT Power Corporation should be kept as one and talked about the danger of trying to discuss issues based on misconceptions. I was a little concerned in her statement today that she might be furthering some misconceptions.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I have not proposed any restructuring of the libraries in the Northwest Territories. Her question indicates that is the case and that I have already committed to public consultation. I would like to reaffirm that the only changes that have been made in the libraries were the reduction of the two regional librarian positions. The community library contributions have not been cut at all this year. Before we do propose any restructuring, I have committed that there will be broad public consultation prior to that happening.

The proposal right now is that sometime in the next two weeks, I will consider various options for public consultation, decide on the method and the format, and then direct the department to undertake the consultation over the course of the summer and into the fall. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Madam Groenewegen.

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Supplementary To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1198

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think in my statement and in my initial question I am referring to a proposal for the restructuring of the public library services. Is the Minister aware of such a proposal? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1198

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The Minister for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have said previously in this House, there is no proposal. The paper to which the Member referred to in her statement was an internal, first draft, discussion paper. It was not intended for a public discussion paper and does not form the basis of the public discussion that we hope to have on how the public libraries will be restructured. I have also said in this House that we have to find some way to deal equitably with the situation that we have now, whereby 19 communities in these territories are publicly funded for libraries.

The balance, or a majority of communities in the territories, do not get any funding for public libraries. We have to find some way to deal with that issue. I have not heard that this legislature is going to give me any more money, so we have to find some way to deal with it, with the resources that we have within. The paper that the Member refers to has never been released publicly and was not intended to form the basis for a public discussion. It was intended to be an internal discussion paper within the department to try and get ideas for how we could shape the discussion paper that would go out to the public.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Member for Hay River , Madam Groenewegen. Second supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for clarification, can the Minister please tell us what the next step will be in the consideration of the restructuring of library services?

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Supplementary To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said, sometime within the next two weeks the department will present me with some options to consider as to how the public consultative process should proceed to discuss what the future should be for libraries in the north and how we can deal with the inequity of the current situation. Any proposal for restructuring would arise from that public discussion and would come back through the committees of this House to this legislature through the budget process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Madam Groenewegen.

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Supplementary To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We, according to the Minister, are discussing an internal document here and as MLAs, we have received numerous responses from constituents with respect to this unpublished proposal. Perhaps the Minister could, for the benefit of the House, tell us to whom was this internal document distributed? Because we have certainly been getting a considerable amount of reaction to it. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the initial draft was distributed among directors and other departmental staff in order to solicit their feedback to shape the paper further before going out for public consultation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring-public Libraries

Question 489-13(4): Proposed Restructuring Of Public Libraries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of the Financial Management Board Secretariat . It is in regards to the status of the pay equity issue. There was some interesting and surprising comments made by the human rights commissioner in regards to this issue, which has a significant potential bearing on this case or this issue. Could the Minister indicate what the status is of this pay equity in light of those comments? Thank you.

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Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Chairman of the Financial Management Board , Mr. Todd .

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Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1199

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the question by my honourable colleague. It is important to say right from the very beginning that the government, previous governments, do in fact support the principle of pay equity. However, in our opinion, and with our two issues that are under dispute. The Canadian Human Rights Commission feels that it has jurisdictional pursuant to the federal legislation. The GNWT's position is that the Canadian Human Rights Commission does not have jurisdiction over the GNWT public servants.

Our public servants have protection under the NWT legislation, namely, the NWT Fair Practice Act. The NWT Fair Practice Act applies to all residents. Everybody, not just civil servants. It would be unconscionable to have the NWT public servants fall under federal legislation and all other residents fall under territorial legislation. That is our position. The GNWT feels that the NWT Fair Practice Act applies to all NWT employees, including employees in the public service. That is the first fundamental issue and disagreement we have.

The matter of jurisdiction is of significant importance. No only to the people in the NWT, but also to the future government of Nunavut and the future government in the west. We believe it is significant enough that it warrants an application to the Supreme Court of Canada for a leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada. It has been sought, and at this time, it is probably inappropriate for me to comment further on that, except to say that this is a question of law, as the chief commissioner suggested.

However, the law in this case, in our opinion, is being misinterpreted by the Canadian Human Rights Commission and we certainly hope to have that clarified very soon in the Supreme Court of Canada.

The second issue under dispute is the pay equity complaint itself. The government's objectives, this one and previous ones, has and continues to be to resolve any pay equity problem in a reasonable and responsible manner and we have taken action as such.

One, we have developed and implemented a gender neutral job evaluation system and we will be sitting down with the union soon to negotiate rates of pay, supported by an objective of a gender neutral job evaluation system. We are going to sit down with the union and see what we can do there. I will say, Mr. Speaker, given the controversy attached to this, given the fact that it has been in the public eye for a long period of time, we are hoping we can move quickly to resolve that. Over the next few months, as we move towards implementation through negotiations, I will keep this House and my honourable colleague up to date on the results. Thank you.

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Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Todd . Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given the complex and obviously sensitive nature of this particular matter, is it going to be part of the process between the Human Rights Commission and other involved parties to carry out this discussion and negotiation in the media?

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Supplementary To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Well frankly, I was disappointed to hear the comments made this morning by the commission and I do not think it is appropriate that we should be negotiating this in the media. There is an orderly process underway. There is a dispute, there is no doubt about that, the two parties see life differently, but there is a desire to resolve the issue in a negotiated manner. As I said, we are going to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada and we hope they will clarify it in the coming weeks and then we can move on with orderly negotiations with our colleagues in the union to seek some final result to this issue that is both equitable and affordable. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister indicated that this is an ongoing dispute. My colleague from Iqaluit has indicated that it has been dragging on for over eight years and now potentially involves tens of millions of dollars, which brings me to the issue of contingent liability as we move towards division. Is it the intent of this government to have this matter cleared up prior to division so, in fact, while it will hopefully be an affordable solution there will be a solution so that it is very clear as we move to division how this issue will split out in terms of final costs? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

John Todd

Keewatin Central

It is in my nature, if I can talk as the Finance Minister , to try to seek resolve to an issue. My personality does not lend itself well to delaying, and my desire is to negotiate an arrangement with our brothers in the union. The problem is, frankly Mr. Speaker, that we are now into a legal, I do not know if battle is the appropriate word, situation and that has to move forward in an orderly way. I would suggest to you that this could be a long, drawn out issue. It is certainly not my desire, but that is where we have ended up.

It will be an expensive exercise for all parties and, at the end of the day, what do we accomplish? There was, I thought, in the previous government some arrangement, but for whatever reason, it did not come to fruition. It certainly would be my desire to see an agreement reached, but it has to be equitable and I repeat again, affordable. There is an affordability issue out there. So when we move forward in relationship to the leave to appeal, this will be, if it is granted, a long drawn out costly process for everybody.

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Further Return To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In light of the Minister's somewhat conciliatory comments, would the Minister be willing to explore solutions outside of the current legal process if, in fact, there was an interest by the other parties to prevent this huge glacial litigation which is going to suck up resources which are going to have to come from other areas? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Well, my understanding is the process is now underway. I do not know whether it can be turned back, but it is underway to seek leave to appeal from the Supreme Court of Canada based upon our belief that human rights has no jurisdiction in our area. I am not sure if that can be turned back or not, I would have to check with the people who are the legal experts in the arrangement. I can tell you this, that it is our desire, so everybody hears it, to make an arrangement and to negotiate an appropriate arrangement that is equitable and is affordable.

I fundamentally believe in the previous regimes they were close to that, for whatever reason it did not take place and we are certainly not close to it now, based upon what the expectation is out there and what I hear from the UNW. So if there is a desire to come together and reach a reasonable, affordable deal, we would make that effort, absolutely.

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Further Return To Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Question 490-13(4): Pay Equity

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik , Mr. Roland .

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Question 491-13(4): Inuvik Hospital Replacement Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1200

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question this time will be directed to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services . It has been some time now since we have discussed the new hospitals and there has

been some work by the department as to the affordability and how they would look at this. I would like to ask the Minister to update this House as to what has been happening to date with the hospital in the community I represent. Thank you.

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Question 491-13(4): Inuvik Hospital Replacement Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Ng .

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Question 491-13(4): Inuvik Hospital Replacement Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

Kelvin Ng

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe it was the last steering committee meeting we had in which the chair of the Inuvik board and the chair of the Baffin board were in attendance. We made a conscious decision that the strategic planning process was near completion and I am happy to report that it is at the end of the initial stage right now with the report, that the capital planning initiatives for both Inuvik and Iqaluit could be accelerated to a great degree.

What we agreed upon was that the deputy Minister and the two CEOs from both Inuvik and Baffin would get together to identify and work out a work plan with some time lines on some of the things that would be required to facilitate getting the projects back on track.

It is my understanding, particularly with the Inuvik hospital replacement project that the Inuvik board has now gone to the stage of awarding a contract for the operational and functional programming review of that facility. I cannot say definitively at what stage that group is working. It is my understanding that the contract has been awarded. There is a plan to put together, as I indicated earlier, the work plan for both the projects.

I have not had a chance to speak directly about that issue with my deputy minister yet and I know there was some difficulty between the two CEOs of the boards and the deputy minister setting aside a time to get that process under way, but I will check into that and I expect that it will happen shortly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 491-13(4): Inuvik Hospital Replacement Project

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ng . Oral questions, Mr. Picco .

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Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for clarification purposes, I should say that Mr. Todd mentioned brothers in the union, we all know there are brothers and sisters in the union, regarding the pay equity question earlier. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment, Mr. Kakfwi . Can the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development update this House on the recent agreement of $100 million to clean up the DEW line sites that was negotiated between the federal government and the United States government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister, Minister Kakfwi .

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Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

Stephen Kakfwi

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Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is indeed very disappointing. I do not use my words loosely by saying shocking that the federal government and the United States government came to this agreement a couple of months ago and it has absolved, basically, any type of monetary retribution from the American government in this clean up that could be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. My question now, I guess, to the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development for the Government of the Northwest Territories is that most of these sites are in the jurisdiction of the Northwest Territories.

Was this government involved in the negotiations between the federal government and the American government on the monies for the clean up? Were we consulted in any way, was the Minister privy to this type of discussion? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

Stephen Kakfwi

Mr. Speaker, the military sites were spread out across the country, 21 of those military sites are located in the Northwest Territories, mostly as part of what they call the DEW line sites, the Distance Early Warning system. There was no notification to this government of the discussions that were taking place. There was no consultation about the position that should be taken, no request for this government to provide its views or its position in regards to how this issue should be handled. We received it the same as everybody else across the country as a news broadcast on CBC television and an

article in The Globe and Mail. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Second supplementary. Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1201

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I would urge that this government and the Minister in the strongest diplomatic language that is

available to him make it known to the federal government this jurisdiction of the Northwest Territories, our disgust with these arrangements having been made without our consultation. I would ask now in my supplementary question to the Minister. Has his department, his officials and himself contacted our federal officials to discuss these developments and will there be a meeting to look at the developments that have occurred over the past two months? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Stephen Kakfwi

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Department of Defence had applied to the Department of Environment asking to be exempt from an agreement that was negotiated, we believe very much on political terms earlier, that said any materials that contain PCBs more than 50 parts per million shall not be disposed of specifically in landfill sites. The PCBs as we know them contained in some of the materials and structures of the DEW line sites contain at least 45,000 parts per million.

After the Department of Defence and the Department of Environment had forced and hardlined this need for a very stringent standard to be accepted by all provinces and territories, it found itself being lobbied by one of its own departments for exemption. Without speaking to the merits of it, that alone brought a lot of credibility problems to the way it was resolved, particularly because now we find that our scientific evidence that says in fact irregardless of the level PCBs contained in these materials, these materials are in fact locked into the paints and the materials that contain them.

So for scientific purposes there is no merit in suggesting that they would be endangering the environment by being disposed of in landfill sites. But there seems to be a need at least to review these agreements that were made which we objected to at the time in order to deal adequately with the options that are available to us on how to clean up these military sites. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Final supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Mr. Picco ...Mr. Speaker,

-- Applause/Laughter

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

If I could continue, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Yes, we need order here so the Honourable Mr. Picco could continue.

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if this was Three Mile Island or any other place, you would have a tremendous outcry. The 27 sites that Mr. Kakfwi talked about earlier, one of the issues was, for example, taking the sites down and shipping out the wood and boards and DND wanted to be able to bury it. That is only one instance in this environmental clean up. For example, in Iqaluit in upper base we had to remove barrels and barrels of contaminated soil from the site itself. Resolution Island is one of the most infected site in the Northwest Territories.

So my supplementary question again and it has not been answered yet is to the Minister, has the Minister scheduled meetings with the federal environmental people, with the federal Minister to find out exactly what is going to happen here to try to get some money? Are we going to use strong diplomatic language to the federal department to say that the deal signed with the federal government and the American government is unacceptable, Mr.

Speaker, unacceptable that a territory like ourselves has not been consulted when 27 of these sites are located here for the sake of military credits for the American government so we can buy military hardware? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Supplementary To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Kakfwi

Yes, Mr. Speaker. I was trying to suggest that one of the options we have is to suggest to the federal government that perhaps a review of the agreement that was signed earlier between the federal government, the provinces and the territories should be reviewed in order to create an opportunity, one option for the Inuit claimant organizations, the people of Nunavut and the Government of the Northwest Territories to expedient some way to resolve this issue in partnership with the federal government.

It is my view that once the federal election is over and we know who the new Ministers are that we should and we will be requesting meetings to deal with issues of environment and other issues that are related that are of some urgency. Issues that demand immediate attention of the federal government so that we can resolve some of these things in a timely manner. This would be one of them. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Question 492-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Steen .

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Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Sunday, May 25, 1997 the US Navy drydock registered as ARD 31 sank to the bottom of Tuk harbour in approximately 60 feet of water. I would like to ask the Minister, Mr. Kakfwi , if his department is aware of this what is his department doing to ensure that this US Navy vessel, this US Navy mess is cleaned up and the vessel is removed? Thank you.

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Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister responsible for the environment, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1202

Stephen Kakfwi

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question, no, I am not aware that this had taken place. The federal government maintains total jurisdiction over inland waters and jurisdiction offshore. In spite of that, we do expect the courtesy of being informed and in a timely way of their activities up here that affect the future and well being of the

residents of the Northwest Territories for which we, unlike them, are totally and directly accountable to. I will be requesting my department to inquire immediately to get information on this, the rationale for the action that was taken and to see if there is any way that something more satisfactory could be done in regard to the action that the Member referred to. Thank you.

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Return To Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I assume that the Minister has assured me that his department would be contacting the responsible federal departments to assure that this mess is cleaned up to the satisfaction of the local residents. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Stephen Kakfwi

Yes, Mr. Speaker. We will ensure that this is communicated in clearest and strongest terms possible in requesting a meeting with the next Minister of Environment, I believe, since all the current Ministers are fighting for their lives, so to speak, until Monday, once the smoke clears, we will see who is still standing and see who walks into these hallowed halls of power and we shall request meetings with them to put our shopping list in order and brief them properly of the issues that require immediate attention here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Question 493-13(4): Clean-up Of Sunk U.s. Navy Vessel

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus .

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Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent . It is in relation to the statement that he made earlier today on the Nunavut Unified Human Resource Development Strategy in which he indicated that the federal government is investing almost $40 million in incremental training programs over four years in Nunavut and that there are 40 training positions being created with the GNWT as well as 17 courses involving more than 150 Inuit.

This, of course, is in addition to what is already been put on by the college and the rest of the public education system. I would like to know if there is a similar plan in the works for the western aboriginal people over here?

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Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the Member is asking if in the west we are looking at a similar unified human resource development strategy, the answer would have to be no because the funding for the strategy came about from the federal government as a result of settlement of the claim in the Nunavut region and the Nunavut political accord. There has not been a similar commitment made by Canada in the west in cooperation with aboriginal or claimant groups.

However, I would think it would be safe to say that the college and adult training programs provided by funding from my department do continue to contribute to development of aboriginal peoples in the west particularly with public service career training monies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife North , Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Actually, that training goes on in both east and the west, not only the west. What I would like to know is, has the Minister or any other Minister approached the federal government for similar funding for training in the west? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

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Further Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Second supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister had indicated that this $40 million was a result of land claim negotiations. Is it our government's position, we have negotiators in all these land claims negotiations, is it our position that all the western land claims should also have those very similar training dollars included in the claims that have yet to be completed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1203

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I could be treading on dangerous grounds if I tried to say what should be in an agreement between a claims group

and the federal government. I know that being in the business of trying to ensure adequate adult training takes place in the territories, I would welcome any and all agreements to fund training in the Northwest Territories no matter where they come from. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1204

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1204

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister indicated in his statement that there were quite a few positions for Inuit that have been created with the Government of the NWT. Are all of these positions being funded through that money that has been put forward by the federal government or are we paying for some of those positions? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1204

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1204

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that the funding for those positions is as a result of the incremental funding that has been put in place for the creation of Nunavut and that it is being paid for by the federal government. The positions are being paid for by the federal government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Question 494-13(4): Nunavut Human Resource Development Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1204

The Deputy Speaker

John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions, the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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