Debates of Nov. 30th, 1996

This is page numbers 87 - 119 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Workers' Compensation Board Corporate Plan 1997-99

Dene And Arctic Sports Resources

Congratulations To The Inuit Broadcasting Corporation

Change Of Procedure In Motor Vehicle Division

24th Annual Geoscience Forum

Season's Greetings

Hiring Practices Of Government For Aboriginal People

Funding For Adult Education Programs

Thanks To Wife And Family For Support

Season's Greetings

Concerns With Amalgamation Of Transportation, Public Works And Services, And The NWT Housing Corporation

Far North Film Festival

Improving Adult Education In The Northwest Territories

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Committee Approval Prior To Proceeding With Amalgamation

20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Sole-sourced Contracts

Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Funding For Clyde River Adult Education Centre

Administering Staff Houses From Arctic Bay

Deputy Prime Minister's Meeting In Greenland

Funding Eligibility From Business Development Fund

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Extended Adjournment

Formal Discussions And Response From The Federal Government On Constitutional Development For The Western Northwest Territories

Bill 3: Family Law Act

Bill 4: Children's Law Act

Bill 5: The Adoption Act

Bill 6: Child And Family Services Act

Bill 7: Municipal Statutes Amending Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. James Antoine, Hon. Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Hon. Charles Dent , Mr. Enuaraq , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Hon. Samuel Gargan , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Hon. Manitok Thompson , Hon. John Todd

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 87

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 15-13(4): Workers' Compensation Board Corporate Plan 1997-99

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 87

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in accordance with subsection 91(1) of the Financial Administration Act, I will be tabling the Corporate Plan for the Workers' Compensation Board for the years 1997-99 later today.

Implementation of an early intervention approach to claims management, development of a communications strategy and a comprehensive policy review have continued to improve the WCB's service to stockholders. Safety education initiatives were introduced to reduce accidents through several new programs; Safety Incentive and Rate Reduction (SIRR); Claims Management for Employers; Safety Awareness for Artists and Carvers; Safety and the Young Worker.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT Workers' Compensation Board has come a long way since the presentation of its first corporate plan in 1993. As the WCB has evolved in recent years, so has its corporate plan. Unlike previous plans, this document focuses on only four strategic issues. This is a conscious effort by the WCB to limit its new initiatives while preparing for division in 1999.

In the next three years, the WCB will work to promote safe and healthy workplaces by balancing its responsibilities for education and enforcement; promoting partnership and commitment with employers and workers; and, targeting industries and sectors with the highest accident frequency.

The WCB will also work to sustain the progress it has already achieved by evaluating existing programs and service delivery to ensure their effectiveness; examining alternative program and services delivery models; providing on-going training and development for staff; and, ensuring the information systems adequately support the standards set for delivery and accountability of WCB initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, while the 1995 Annual Report reflected the WCB's continued financial health, it is the strategic initiatives defined in this corporate plan that will ensure its success for the future. I encourage all members to take the time to read this important document.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 15-13(4): Workers' Compensation Board Corporate Plan 1997-99

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 87

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Todd . Ministers' statements. Ms. Thompson .

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Minister's Statement 16-13(4): Dene And Arctic Sports Resources

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 87

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to advise members of two significant initiatives to document traditional cultural games. The first is the recently published Dene Games Resource Book, documenting the traditional cultural games of the Dene of the Western Arctic including Dogrib, Chipewyan, Gwich'in, Sahtu and Slavey.

Mr. Speaker, the second initiative is the development of a technical manual for arctic sports. This resource is being developed to promote the teaching and training of Inuit arctic sports. The project is sponsored by the Arctic Winter Games International Committee, the governments of the NWT, Yukon, Alberta and Canada, Sports North, the NWT Arctic Sports Association and the coaching associations of Canada. The technical manual will overview the important groups of Inuit traditional games, and provide the cultural background of these games.

These games completed in the Arctic Winter Games will be described technically, culturally appropriate training methods and values, as well as a process for competition will be described.

Mr. Speaker, resources like the Dene Games Resource book and technical manual for arctic sports preserve and promote traditional cultural values and behaviour of our peoples, and leads to greater understanding and appreciation of our Dene and Inuit cultures. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 16-13(4): Dene And Arctic Sports Resources

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson . Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 17-13(4): Congratulations To The Inuit Broadcasting Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the programming of the northern aboriginal broadcasters, carried on TVNC, has helped enhance aboriginal languages and culture, and continues to increase understanding among and between cultural groups. Northern programs are also gaining increased recognition at the national, and international levels, for being innovative, creative and effective.

Today, I would like to congratulate the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation for having won some prestigious awards for their productions. In June, the program Secret Stories was awarded the Unesco prize at the Prix Jeunesse International in Munich, Germany. Secret Stories was co-produced by IBC and is about Linda Tucktoo's experiences in the Philippines.

The same program was also awarded the jury prize at the Fourth World Video and Multi-Media Forum held by the International Catholic Organization for Cinema and Audio-visual in Cologne, Germany. In addition, the Alliance for Children and Television here in Canada has just awarded special recognition to the IBC series Takuginai.

The Inuit Broadcasting Corporation receives its funding from the territorial government through Education, Culture and Employment, and from the federal Department of Canadian Heritage. My department is proud to support IBC and its excellent programming. I congratulate IBC on receiving these awards, and on its continuing work to promote understanding of Inuit culture and values. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 17-13(4): Congratulations To The Inuit Broadcasting Corporation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 18-13(4): Change Of Procedure In Motor Vehicle Division

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a short statement today to call the members' attention to a change of procedure in the Department of Transportation's Motor Vehicle Division, which I believe the members and most of their constituents should take note.

As of October 1996, the Motor Vehicles Division has stopped sending reminder letters to people advising them that their vehicle registration or driver's license is about to expire. The reminder letter was a small service the Department began in 1989 when it changed to the staggered renewal of vehicle registrations. The service was intended to give people a timely reminder, so they would not find themselves in the awkward position of having let their driver's license or vehicle registration expire.

The Motor Vehicles Division sent out about 50,000 letters annually at a cost of $25,000. In any month, the post office returned a quarter to half of these letters as undeliverable, mainly because people move without notifying the Motor Vehicles Division of their change in address. The number of returned letters made the Department question how important the service actually was. In our tight financial circumstances, by cancelling the reminder letters, the Department of Transportation has achieved a small saving with little or no inconvenience to the public.

So, I would like to advise the members and their constituents, that there will be no letter in the mail this year when their vehicle registration is due for renewal. People should check the expiry dates on their motor vehicle documents and remind themselves to renew them before they lapse. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 18-13(4): Change Of Procedure In Motor Vehicle Division

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 19-13(4): 24th Annual Geoscience Forum

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 88

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give this minister's statement on behalf of Mr. Kakfwi . On Wednesday, Mr. Kakfwi had the honour of speaking at the opening of the 24th annual Geoscience Forum now underway in Yellowknife. The forum is a major mining event, where the mineral industry can showcase its work, and raise issues of importance and concern.

The three day conference is organized by the NWT Chamber of Mines. Participants include over 300 members of the geological and mining fraternity, ranging from Baker Lake prospectors to presidents of major mining companies, all of whom are instrumental in mining and exploration activity in the Northwest Territories.

1996 has been a dramatic year for the northern mining industry and the excitement will continue to grow as the NWT's first diamond mine moves closer to production. The mineral industry, and the economic opportunities it provides, are crucial to the economic future of the Northwest Territories. There is potential for more activity as prospectors continue to search out new wealth. Mr. Kakfwi took note that some of the prospectors exploring the land, such as those from Baker Lake who are attending the Geoscience Forum, have been trained in the communities with the prospector training support offered by the department.

Geoscience work, like wildlife and habitat research, is an important part of the GNWT's research activities and an important ingredient in the development of resource management plans. Research that we do is also a key tool to encourage economic growth. As a result of work done in the late 1980's by a GNWT geologist in the Bathurst Inlet area, industry took a closer look at the region. Today BHP minerals is taking a bulk sample from the Boston Gold Property.

Issues of importance to the mineral industry are also presented and discussed at the Geoscience Forum. Departmental Staff will be speaking about the development of a protected areas strategy for the NWT, a process in which the mineral industry will be involved. The strategy, when completed, will enhance our ability to manage all resources, renewable and non-renewable, and provide greater clarity on the availability of land and mineral development.

Mr. Kakfwi looks forward to seeing the proceedings from the Geoscience Forum, and he wishes the industry the best in the coming year. Thank you.

--- Applause

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Minister's Statement 19-13(4): 24th Annual Geoscience Forum

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 89

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin . Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translator) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I could be given the opportunity to speak. This may be the last sitting of this session, during this year, 1996. I wish the members of this House a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year, and I encourage them to share their values with their families. Particularly, Mr. Speaker, I also wish Pangnirtung, Broughton Island, and Clyde River residents a very good Christmas. I also wish Yellowknife residents a very good year. I have enjoyed staying here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq . Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Hiring Practices Of Government For Aboriginal People

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My member's statement today is in regards to the hiring practices of this government. Specifically, how they treat Aboriginal people in the P1 and P2 positions, especially with the lay-offs that have occurred. I will speak about individuals that have made a career move to get into fields, such as a managerial and technical trades, such as nurses, social workers, doctors, and dentists.

These individuals have made a choice by moving to southern institutions to take the training, and returning home. But, once they got home, there was a real mistrust by managers in regards to their experience or backgrounds because of the colour of their skin. I think we have made a decision to let managers manage. But we also have made a decision that there is an affirmative action policy, and this government has to implement that policy to its fullest, to ensure that people who are born and raised in the north will have the opportunities, so that we do keep those positions available to them.

They will eventually be independent, and self-sufficient, by having the human resources from the north available to deliver those programs.

On one hand, we are telling the developer to hire north, maintain jobs for the north, but on the other hand, this government is not practising that. I believe that we have to make it clear to southern managers that we hire through this government, through our hiring practices, that there is affirmative action in place. We do have to educate them, about the opportunity available for those individuals who have gone to school for several years to come back either as dentists, nurses, social workers, or even teachers.

At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the minister for a statement on this.

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Hiring Practices Of Government For Aboriginal People

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Funding For Adult Education Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to thank the honourable Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment , for his timely response to the members of my constituency, who raised concerns over the lack of funding for a second position at the adult education centre in Rae. This position is needed, considering the number of students who are currently in this important program, as well as possible training programs, that are soon to be initiated.

Over the previous months, most members of this House have commented on the need for more adult education in the communities. I would like to add my support for this very worthwhile and important program. Currently, in our region, we have a centre in Rae that offers full time adult education. Three communities of Rae Lakes, Wha Ti, and Snare Lakes, have lobbied this government to provide this program. However, due to cut backs, and lack of funding, these communities have only been given short term solutions. This is not acceptable. We must find better solutions.

With the signing of agreements by this government, Treaty 11 councils, and BHP, we can realize some of our goals for training. I believe it is important for these parties to work together as partners to ensure our people receive the best possible training that we can provide. I also hope that we can start offering this in the very near future.

In closing today, maybe the final day this House will sit prior to Christmas, I would like to wish one and all a safe and Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Funding For Adult Education Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca . Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Thanks To Wife And Family For Support

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 89

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as this is the last day of the sitting for 1996, I would like to take this opportunity to wish the people of Iqaluit, Apex, and the outpost camps a very Merry Christmas and New Year.

Mr. Speaker, to be able to come to Yellowknife for prolonged periods of time, when you have a young family, means you need support from your partner at home. Mr. Speaker, my wife Upa, is home with our three kids, ranging in age from 1 to 8 years old. My wife has been employed at the women's shelter known as Qimaavik in Iqaluit, since 1992. That job is stressful, Mr. Speaker. Having to maintain our home, and take care of the three children for weeks on end, while I serve here in public office, takes more than dedication.

It takes commitment and love. I could not be here today, I would not be able to do the job, to function in the stressful world of cutbacks and reductions, being in the public eye, without my wife's support.

Mr. Speaker, as we near the Christmas season and a new year, my wife has two more years of my prolonged absences, and missed birthdays, to look forward to.

Is public life worth missing seeing your baby walk for the first time? Or missing out on an award presentation to your son? I do not know. But the public should sometimes look at these aspects of public life. I now know why so many of our territorial, provincial, and federal politicians have failed marriages and other problems. It is not an easy life, Mr. Speaker. I have nothing but respect for any man or woman who can survive and dedicate four, five, six years or more in public life.

Mr. Speaker, to my wife and family in Iqaluit, that I will not see for another two weeks, I miss you, I love you, and I apologize to my son Wally for missing his birthday again this year, and I will try to make it up to you.

-- Applause

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Thanks To Wife And Family For Support

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien .

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to send out best wishes for the coming Christmas season to all northerners, especially to my constituents in Arviat and Baker Lake.

Mr. Speaker, just this week, I was informed that the Premier and his Cabinet were not God and the apostles. Mr. Speaker, given the season, this being the season of good will, I will refer to the Premier as Santa Morin, and the cabinet, as his elves. Last Christmas, my list to Santa Morin was to have a little more equity, with reference to capital budgets and allocations, to my riding.

Unfortunately, these stockings, that were hung by the chimney with glee, were found nearly empty. One stocking that was filled, with a health centre for Arviat, was robbed by one of Santa's little elves. So Mr. Speaker, my message to the wisemen from the east, is that, you better watch out, and you better not shout, because he is making his list, and he is checking it twice, and he is going to find out who is naughty or nice. In all seriousness, Mr. Speaker, I would like to wish the Premier and his family nothing but the best for the Christmas season, and also, the godfather and his elves. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien . Members' statement. Mr. Barnabas .

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translator) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to wish the members a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year. All the best in the future. I would also like to wish Arctic Bay residents Grise Fiord residents, and Resolute Bay residents a very merry Christmas, and a happy New Year. I want to wish NWT residents all the best in the New Year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas . Members' statements. Mr. Roland .

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to use my member's statement to wish people in the Northwest Territories, my fellow colleagues, people of Inuvik, and especially my wife and children, Merry Christmas. I am happy to say that, in another two weeks, I will be home to spend the majority of the Christmas season with my family.

I would like to say something about Christmas. It is not just a time of lights and presents, but it is a time of people getting together, sharing stories, and renewing old partnerships and friendships. A time to reflect back on all the accomplishments we have made. How few or how many. I think it is a time to truly reflect on the blessings we have received. Something my father told me, after we had the Christmas dinner prayer. As we sat down to eat, he would say, look at all we have, and how many out there, that do not have any. Mr. Speaker, colleagues, during this time of Christmas, I would hope that the spirit of sharing and caring would be with us during this Christmas season. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Members' statements. Mr. Henry .

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 90

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As this the last session of this year 1996, I would also like to take this opportunity to wish all the peoples of the Northwest Territories, the residents of Yellowknife and the members of this House a very special and happy Christmas. I would also like to take the opportunity to reassure my wife and family that I will be spending a lot of time at home over the Christmas season.

Mr. Speaker, as we know, the festive season is a time for families to come together. It is also a time for friends to visit friends, and spend extra time with them, at this time of the year. I had some discussions with the finance minister, and he informed me that he has not really made a lot of friends this year. So, he may have a little extra time over the holiday season, that the rest of us will not have. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to wish yourself, and all the staff of this Legislative Assembly and the government of the Northwest Territories, who have put a phenomenal amount of work and dedication into the past year, I would like to, on behalf of the members of this House, ensure them that they are appreciated. We wish them, and their families, a very happy and holy Christmas. Amen.

-- Applause

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Season's Greetings

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry . Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Concerns With Amalgamation Of Transportation, Public Works And Services, And The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I feel like the Grinch, because my statement has nothing to do with Christmas. Today, I would like to make a statement regarding the proposed amalgamation of Transportation, Public Works and Services, and the NWT Housing Corporation. I have serious concerns about this proposed amalgamation. But I have bigger concerns with how this initiative is, apparently, transforming into reality, right before our eyes.

A motion was passed in the last session clearly outlining the need for this initiative to be debated in and approved by, this House. However, yesterday in the House, we had difficulty and complications in achieving the simple first step of having the discussion document tabled in the House. The Premier sited the process which we all agreed to as members when we were elected, which would see the review of decisions in committee on such things as budgets, amalgamations of departments, et cetera. When you consider the time lines and target dates for implementation of this amalgamation, the significance of the input of committees and ordinary members must be brought into question.

Lay-off notices to employees, who are associated with the user say/user pay initiative, have already gone out. Some components, minor as they are, of the supplementary appropriation are also association with user say/ user pay, which is part of the bigger issue of amalgamation. Mr. Todd tells us that these lay-off notices are the responsible and compassionate way to treat our public service employees. I am being very careful not to use the word irresponsible today here - responsible and compassionate - because I would not want to offend anyone.

He also tells us that these lay-off notices can be retracted if we do not proceed with this initiative. I think that they are serious risks associated with such actions.

In

summary, I would ask the government to observe the committee structure in the decision making process and the direction and motions passed in this House. For the record, neither committee or this House, has sanctioned the amalgamation of Transportation, Public Works and Services, and the Housing Corporation. I look forward to raising specific concerns in Committee of the Whole today. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Concerns With Amalgamation Of Transportation, Public Works And Services, And The NWT Housing Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Far North Film Festival

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members will still be in Yellowknife, today, and for the next two weeks. I would like to make reference to the fact that, for the past two days and continuing on this evening in Yellowknife, at Northern Arts and Cultural Centre, is the first annual Far North Film Festival. For those of you who are interested in films on the north, and they are concentrating on films on the north. For instance there is the film, The Road to Rae, which was produced by a Yellowknife group. It might be of interest to the public and members here to go to that.

I want to pass on my Christmas greetings to my constituents, Mr. Speaker, as well as the staff of the Government of the Northwest Territories, and to members of this House. Also, to the staff, who are working for the government. We do appreciate the tremendous contribution, and we do hope they have a good Christmas, and a prosperous new year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Far North Film Festival

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Are there are any further members' statements? Mr. Erasmus .

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Improving Adult Education In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to make my statement on a more serious matter. It is in relation to what the honourable member from the Fort Rae area had talked about, which is education. Mr. Speaker, the Premier , in his speech the other day, indicated that we should focus on three core priorities. Two of those were to improve economic conditions and to address social conditions.

Those are, I believe, directly related to the education levels of Northerners. For years, the Legislative Assembly has stressed the need for education for all northern residents. We made several movements in that area, including adopting a small school secondary program, implementing a new education act, and dramatically expanding the roles of Aurora and Nunavut Arctic College.

In 1996, there was a snapshot done of the western NWT labour market, which showed having more education increases the chance of getting a job. It showed that 29 percent of those, with less than grade 9, have a job. Only 29 percent. At the same time, it showed that if you have a university degree, you are almost guaranteed to have a job. Those were at a 91 percent level. Those numbers may have changed a little since then.

Mr. Speaker, I request unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Improving Adult Education In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The member from Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Erasmus , you have unanimous consent.

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Improving Adult Education In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, as I said, those may have changed a little, because of the fact that we have amalgamated and soon. Because, in the previous study, it was shown that people with a university degree had a 95 percent opportunity of having a job.

Another study, that was done recently, was by Aurora College. In their corporate plan from 1995 to the year 2000, it showed a clear link between education, employment opportunities and pay levels. Mr. Speaker, that report indicates that if you have grade 8 or less, you only have a 33 percent chance of getting a job. And you would be working for an average pay of less than $14,000.00. If you had grade 9 to grade 11, you had a 50/50 chance of getting a job. And you would work for an average pay of $21,000.00.

If you had a university degree, as I said earlier, you would have a 91 percent chance of getting a job. You would be working for an average pay of close to $50,000.00. There is a huge disparity there, Mr. Speaker.

Now another source, that I looked at, is the Canadian Fact Book on Poverty. You would have to remember that your job, and your education, are directly related to the amount of money you make. So if you make more money, you have a good education. If you have a poor education, you make less money. Less money, of course, is related to poverty. This report showed that children who came from poor families, were more than twice as likely to drop out of high school, Mr. Speaker. It also showed that close to three-quarters of the children that were in care at foster homes came from low income families, Mr. Speaker.

It also showed that child mortality, deaths at child birth, and shortly thereafter, are related to income. If a child came from a low income family, then that child was twice as likely to die, than if that child had come from a higher income family. That same report showed that boys coming from low income families were more than three times as likely to die from drowning, than if they came from a higher income family. It also showed that children from low income families are almost twice as likely, than a child from a higher income family, to have a psychiatric disorder, to do poorly in school, and to develop conduct disorder - in other words, to behave destructively.

Mr. Speaker, we like to speak about improving economic conditions and improving social conditions. These reports, which I have cited, and intend to table a document on later, these documents all show that without improving the education levels of the adults in the Northwest Territories, we have a very poor chance of improving social conditions. If we do improve economic conditions, it certainly won't be for those people with poor educations.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude by wishing a Merry Christmas to my family, to my constituents, to all the people of the NWT, and also to my fellow members here at the Legislative Assembly. And a very hardy thank you and Merry Christmas to the staff at the Legislative Assembly, and all of the GNWT staff. Thank you.

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Improving Adult Education In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements, members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not have much opportunity to welcome people from Iqaluit, but at this time it gives me extreme pleasure to introduce Ann Hanson, who as a lot of people in the Assembly know, is the Chair of the Baffin Regional Health Board. Sitting next to Annis Pat Cremie, the CEO of the Baffin Regional Health Board, and one of the few women, or people for that matter, I have seen go toe to toe with Mr. Todd , and hold her own. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Celine Ningark, who is a member of the Nunavut Social Development Council, a councillor of the Hamlet of Pelly Bay, a member of the Kitikmeot Divisional Board of Education, and happens to be the better half of our chair of Nunavut, Mr. John Ningark .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Dent .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a young lady from Japan in our gallery today. Kiomi Marata is a Rotary exchange student from Seiki, Japan which is near Osaka. She will be living in Yellowknife for one year. She is a grade 11 student at St. Patrick High School, and will manage to enjoy living with several families in Yellowknife, who are members of the Rotary Club, while she is here.

She is accompanied today with her acting mother, right now, Muriel Tolley, and her acting brother, James Tolley.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Ningark .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I can recognize my better half, after living with her for some 30 years. Celine, thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark . Recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like recognize Pat Thomas, John Todd 's partner in crime.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 92

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral questions. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 92

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for Minister for Social Services , Mr. Ng . It is regarding my opening statement about the hiring practices of hospital managers, and allowing them to manage. But I think there also has to be a mechanism there to ensure that individuals such as aboriginal people, who have became registered nurses, dentists, to allow then a fair and equitable way of getting in the work force, and also becoming active in communities, where a lot of them have come from. They have taken the time to go southern institutions, or northern institutions, to get their degree as registered nurses, or dentists, or other fields, in management positions.

My question to the minister is, what mechanism do you have to ensure that, yes, we have a lot of managers to manage, but there has to be, for the individuals themselves to be able to file their complaints without having to feel that they are going to threatened by the managers, by either being put on part time work or taken off full time work, is there a mechanism that you do use so that, in case they cannot work out their grievances with their manager, there is another approach they can take to resolve these things?

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Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng .

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Return To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

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Return To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Other questions, in regards to the whole concept that we seem to have the idea that the affirmative action is the mechanism that is going to be used to ensure that we do have opportunities for aboriginal people in those P1, P2 positions, that they will be able to follow whatever career they are in, one of the trades or else in nursing, dentistry or in a managerial position.

Has your department made an effort to educate managers that we do hire from southern institutions, or from southern provinces, is there a mechanism that you use to educate managers when they come up here, that there is a policy in place, in regards to hiring, and how obligated are they to fulfil that policy?

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Supplementary To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if it is respect to actual personnel within the Department of Health and Social Services, then, yes, we have an affirmative action policy that we abide by. I do not know if there is specific training in respect to that issue, but certainly, through the senior management, and through the ministers office, we are well aware of it and we abide by it to the utmost.

In respect to any managers that would be coming on to health boards throughout the territories, that would be incumbent upon them, and their boards of management, to adhere to the same policies that our government has, in respect to affirmative action, again, I do not know if there is specific training or education for these managers, but certainly, if it is an issue out there, I would certainly be more than willing to reiterate our government's position on affirmative action and hiring.

What we are trying to do, of course, as we all know here, is to try to promote all kinds of professionals throughout the system. To try and develop a northern work force, particularly in the professional fields the honourable member mentioned. We are trying to develop that base, because in the long run, we know that will benefit the whole of the territories, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Another question to the minister is, is there information available, to this House, to identify those individuals who are registered nurses or social workers, and exactly what level of the wage economy are they? Are they working part time, or full time, have they been shifted around? There were concerns raised about the lay-offs that have occurred in the past. Also, how fair is this policy and how is it being carried out? How do you evaluate what levels these individuals are at in regards to P1, P2 positions, versus individuals who are brought from, either, overseas or in southern institutions to come up here and fill these positions. How level is that playing field?

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Supplementary To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all I can say is that we do support and encourage all northern aboriginal people to pursue careers in the health fields. If there is any particular problem that the honourable member refers to, I would certainly be willing to sit down with him and find out if there are any unfair happenings that are going on in respect to the individual case that he might be referring to. We certainly could put together statistics for some of the questions that the honourable member is asking, it is just that I do not know the time frame of when we could do that to satisfy his immediate needs, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Question 53-13(4): Hiring Practices And Managerial Attitudes Toward Aboriginal People

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, Mr. O'Brien .

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Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the minister of Health and Social Services. Could the minister update this House as to the status of the regional office of the Department of Social Services located in Baker Lake, what is the status, today, in reference to the number of positions that are vacant or not filled and the fact that the regional office no longer has a superintendent of social services located in Baker Lake?

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Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng .

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Return To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 93

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not have the specific details of what positions are, or are not, filled right now in the regional social services offices in the Keewatin. I can get this information and forward it to the

honourable member. As you all know, the amalgamation of social services with the Keewatin Health Board is underway, similar to all other regions where we plan to have this finalized by the end of this fiscal year, in preparation for having a consolidated budget for those areas for the next fiscal year. We are including all the transfer positions and the operating dollars for those positions, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge, there are 4 vacant positions, or PYs, that have been either lost, or transferred, to Rankin Inlet. it is my understanding that the superintendent's position has been downgraded to a management position which was to be located in Baker Lake, but is now located in Rankin Inlet. My question is, is Baker Lake still considered, and will it still be considered, as the regional headquarters for social services for the Keewatin? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that would be the responsibility of the Keewatin Health Board to finalize that amalgamation. It is true that all superintendent positions of social services in the regions will be downgraded, as you do not need 2 superintendents, and that is part of the reason for the amalgamation, to obtain some efficiencies, to minimize some of the overlap and provide more integrated services within the regions, to try and improve the service.

I cannot speak for the Keewatin Health Board in how they will finalize their operational structure. I can foresee that there will be one headquarters and the social services regional office function will, more than likely, not be based in Baker Lake, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is unfortunate that we do not have the Keewatin Health Board and others here to answer some of these questions. The issue to me is that, if this is what community empowerment is about, it is in a sorry state. We have a situation where, once again, a small community is losing positions to a regional centre. Positions that we cannot afford to lose. I believe this flies in the face of what Footprints 2 is proposing, and, furthermore, I think the minister should give further consideration to ensuring these positions return to Baker Lake, where they belong. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng .

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Further Return To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if I can use an example, in my own constituency where the same type of thing happened, social services positions in Kugluktuk, the senior management position and the finance and administration position were deleted because of the anticipated amalgamation with the Kitikmeot Health Board. What they chose to do in my region was to offset those two PY reductions in Kugluktuk by reassigning staff functions from the headquarters location in Cambridge Bay to provide additional Pys in Kugluktuk to offset that.

So, as I said, it is a regional prerogative that they will work out at the regional level. I am sure that, in recognizing some of the losses in the honourable members riding in Baker Lake, that they will more than fairly offset it, whether it is through a move of administrative positions to offset the loss of management positions, or whether it is providing some additional programs to the community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Question 54-13(4): Vacant Positions In Baker Lake Department Of Social Services Regional Office

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, Mr. Erasmus .

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Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I see the minister for Renewable Resources is gone... I would like to ask a question of the Finance Minister who is responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. A couple of weeks ago I read in the paper about the chief mining inspector who had resigned and he had indicated in that article, which, I am not sure if it is true, of course, but I want to get clarification here, the mining inspector indicated that when he took on this job, mining accidents were quite bad and that they had improved quite a bit to the same level of the south.

I would like to ask the minister in charge of Workers' Compensation Board, if he could verify if this is true or not?

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Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I would like to remind the members that the minister does not have to confirm or deny any articles that are done through the media, through newspapers, so perhaps, you might want to rephrase your question, Mr. Erasmus .

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Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the minister in charge of the Workers' Compensation Board whether the accident levels in the mines in the NWT have improved since the previous mining inspector took his position?

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Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 94

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will answer the question this way. I think there has been a significant improvement in accident awareness and some of the preventative stuff with the WCB over the last year. I do not have the actual statistical information in front of me, but I am reasonably confident the comments made by Mr. Turner, who is the mine safety inspector, probably reflect on an improvement on the accidents in, I think he was talking specifically about, the mining industry.

I think that is due in part, if I may say, to more vigilance on the part of the government and, certainly, on the part of that division, when it was under Safety and Public Services, with a powerful education and awareness program on the need for safety with the WCB. Thank you.

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Return To Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral question, supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that there are many people who feel that the accident levels are still too high. I would like to know if we are introducing anything new to further reduce the accident rates?

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Supplementary To Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The member is correct, we are moving with a mine safety committee that will be reviewing legislation and the regulations that lead to legislation. The mine safety committee is made up of people active in the industry both on the workers' side and on the employers' side. It is part and parcel of an overall program that has been underway for some time now with respect to improving mine safety, improving awareness about the need to limit accidents, et cetera.

So, there is a committee which, I believe, myself, the chairman and the minister responsible for WCB, appoints based on the recommendations of industry and the unions. It is my understanding, if my memory serves me correctly, that they are meeting sometime in early December to move progressively on reviewing the regulations that will surround the Act. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Question 55-13(4): Improvement In Mining Accidents With Arrival Of Mining Inspector

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, Mr. Henry .

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Question 56-13(4): Committee Approval Prior To Proceeding With Amalgamation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier regarding the amalgamation of Public Works and Services, Transportation and the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, the Premier , yesterday in the House, stated that the amalgamation of those three departments would be completed in April 1999.

In a letter, which was tabled as document 13-13(4), tabled on the 29th day of November, 1996 from the Premier regarding the subject of amalgamation he stated and confirmed a motion that was passed in this House and the end of the motion states further that the executive council not proceed with the amalgamation until a sessional discussion paper on the proposed amalgamation is tabled and approved in the Legislative Assembly. I also look at documents that are attached to that tabled document and it talks about a time table.

I just want a confirmation from the Premier that in fact no continuation of amalgamation will proceed until the committees have the opportunity to review this document, report back to and approve it in the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 56-13(4): Committee Approval Prior To Proceeding With Amalgamation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry . Mr. Henry , I must rule your question out of order since the rule states that a member may not ask questions on matters that are listed on the order paper for consideration at that sitting. We do have the discussion paper on amalgamation on the orders in Committee of the Whole. You could ask your question at that time. Oral questions, Mr. Roland .

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Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question at this time will be directed to the minister responsible for Finance. I would like the minister to tell me and the House what makes up the 20 percent recoveries that is taken off employees' cheques. What is included in that, when there are recoveries made on employees' cheques? Thank you.

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Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to make sure I get this accurate because I know it is a sensitive issue understandably so. It is my understanding because I would like to qualify it that way just in case I am incorrect which of course you all know really I am. My understanding is that the 20 percent that we deducted which is to recover vacation travel assistance taken by roughly about 40 percent of our employees is 20 percent of the net pay.

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Return To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral question supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister inform me what areas do they recover the 20 percent on. Understandably there would be vacation travel allowance. The retroactive of the agreement and there is some other things there. So, what makes up the 20 percent?

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Supplementary To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I believe it was the VTA that was applied for under the collective agreement. Those that applied for the VTA prior to the union signing off the collective agreement. I believe that is what it was, the VTA. Now there are circumstances and maybe the member wishes to ask me this question, there are circumstances where there are hardship cases which we are prepared to respond to.

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Further Return To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the area of recoveries made on employees' pay cheques. Knowing that another policy that was probably developed with not much consultation with the lower people in the regions and communities that don't make $60,000 to $ 70,000 per year, and have families to provide for. But will this government look at those individual cases where there is hardship in families. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 95

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to assure my honourable colleague in fact that is what we are doing now. If there are some particular instances in his constituency, I would be happy to address those. We recognize that particularly in the small communities there is a high cost of living and that when you take that kind of level of funding off it may cause a hardship. It was actually pointed out by other members like Mr. Picco and others.

So, if there are situations where there is a hardship factor, we will address these on one-to-one basis and try to ensure there is adequate disposable income available in that particular house so that they can continue to pay the bills and feed their children. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Question 57-13(4): 20 Percent Recovery From Employees' Pay Cheques

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, Mr. Picco .

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Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, seeing as it is the last sitting day for 1996, I want to return to the motion of May 13 on disclosure. I have a copy of the contract report for the quarter ending for 1996. Mr. Morin has a copy of the same book. And this question concerns sole-source contracts. Mr. Morin , tell me, on page 47 of the contract report that is in his hands now, if the amount for $22,524.23 is a sol- source contract. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Premier , Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, on page 47 of the contract, the $22,524.23 was for fuel tank construction, Colville Lake was to Ferguson, Simek, Clarke out of Yellowknife. That would be a design contract and as far as my understanding is, Mr. Speaker, that would not be a sole-source contract. All design contracts are let by DPW and are let to architectural firms throughout the north. Thank you.

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Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier was the former Minister of the Department of Public Works and Services. So, he would know of course. On page 67, the amount for $6,918.00. Can the Minister tell me is that a negotiated contract?

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Mr. Picco , on page 67 of this contract report for the third quarter fiscal year March 31, 1996, the amount is $6,918.90. In the settlement of Rae Edzo, it is lab equipment. It is a purchase order, number 443769 out of Borite Chemicals Corporation. My understanding reading this document, that would not have been a public tender, it would have been a call for lab equipment and they would have made a local purchase through purchase order because the P.O. is in front of it. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it demonstrates that what Mr. Morin had earlier said in the House in public record that this book available for $9.00 anyone could find out if it was a negotiated or a sole-source contract. It took four ministers to figure that question out.

My supplementary question then to the Minister is and the Premier , is when will they publish....

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Picco . We have a point of order. Mr. Morin .

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The honourable member, I noticed he put his glasses on, that is good because he is asking me the questions. I am answering the questions. So the point of order, Mr. Speaker, is he leads the House to believe that it took four ministers to answer the question. It is only myself standing here to answer the question.

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Again, to remind the members not to make trivial vague frivolous statements. The minister does not have a point of order. I would ask the member to use a better choice of words in his questions. Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, just for a point of clarification, did you want me to ask the question again? Yes okay. Mr. Speaker, my question for the Premier of the Northwest Territories is this book that he has a copy of, how can the general public tell what is a sole-source and negotiated contract out of this book?

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This information is available to the general public for the price of $9.00. The member raised this issue in the House I had committed to him at that time to take a look at it and I said at that time all the contracts are in here. All the general public have to do is purchase this book and they will have a list of all the contracts and if they have any concern on any given contract they can contact the contracting department and find out. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 96

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not standing up here again for vendettas or witch hunts and I do not want to try to get one person or another, I am asking for a disclosure. I am asking that this book, that the minister kept telling me could tell me what was negotiated or sole-sourced,

so people would pay 9 bucks. I think we just demonstrated that you cannot tell by looking at it, so the people have to phone the department of this and the department of that. I will add, Mr. Speaker, if you just bear with me, because I think I should be given the opportunity here to bring this point forward, how many times do I have to ask these questions for public money spent for the public good?

So, I will not go any further than to ask the Premier my supplementary question, which is, when will that book specifically identify what are negotiated, what are sole sourced and what are publicly tendered in the contract report of the first quarter of the fiscal year for 1996/97. I just cannot take it any more Mr. Speaker... when, when, when.

-- Laughter

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Supplementary To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the member for the excellent question. A very clear question, and, as I said previously in this House, this book is available to the general public for $9. The Member raised a very good concern saying that the general public could not go through this book and say, this contract here has been negotiated, this one has been sole-sourced.

I raised the issue in the House previously, Mr. Speaker, that there was an issue with the Department of Justice on us doing that, I have requested the Department of Justice to find a way that we can do that so we can respond to the motion that was made in this Legislative Assembly by Mr. Ootes and Mr. Picco . The motion was very clear, that we are looking at a way that we can list sole-source contracts and negotiated contracts, as well, as list, for public information, the wages of all our employees.

We are going to do those two things because that is the wish of the House. So, we can make all of the employees who work for the Government of the Northwest Territories, we have committed that anybody making over $60,000, their wage will be public. Mr. Todd is going to deal with the union on that issue and that may take some time. I am dealing with Justice to try to get this stuff done, and, hopefully, we will get it done before the next book comes out. We will try it, I made a commitment to members of this House and we are trying to get it done.

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Further Return To Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Question 58-13(4): Sole-sourced Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, is this your final supplementary? I will check with the Clerk here. When you have a supplementary, part of that is also part of the supplementary. If a member asks a question clearly and has not got a response clearly and he asks for clarification, that is still a supplementary. Oral questions, Mr. Steen .

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Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board , Mr. Todd and it is in relation to staff housing. Mr Speaker, for many months now we have heard the minister responsible for the Financial Management Board state that this government has certain staff units for sale in the communities. However, my constituents advise me that it is almost impossible to find out who is selling these units. Mr.

Speaker, the last constituent who spoke to me on this told me that they have been advised that the government is taking a new approach now and, possibly, having a sector sell these units. Could the Finance Minister clarify this for me? Who is selling the units?

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Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Well, first of all, thank you, Mr. Speaker, let me apologize to Mr. Steen and to his constituents. I concur with him that there has been a great deal of confusion as it relates to who is selling the staff housing and, if I may say publicly, I am very appreciative of the president of the NWTTA who has assisted us in the process.

The staff housing, we did, if I can step back a little bit, we did make a provision to extend the deadline for staff housing to, I believe, the end of December. There was some confusion as to who or how or what should sell the houses. We have sold, my understanding is somewhere around 70 percent of the housing units, particularly the individual ones, and we are fairly confident, despite a few of the glitches that you may have heard about over the last umpteen months, we are fairly confident that most employees will take advantage of this one-time excellent opportunity to purchase a home, particularly when mortgages are at an all time low since 1955, I believe.

The process we now have in place is, we have asked those who do it best, and it appears that we have not, and that is we have asked the private sector and real estate companies to move quickly to pick up the phone, talk to the individuals on an individual basis, get an offer, sign the deal, get it sold. Thank you.

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Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the units that are being talked about at this point in time, nobody is living in them. They are not units that staff are living in. I am referring to units that have nobody in them but I do not know, and my constituents do not know, whether the cause of the deadlines that are extensions for units that people live in, does it also apply to all units? Are they all taken off the sale list at this point in time?

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Supplementary To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 97

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Steen has caught me again. I guess it would be difficult to talk to the tenants if there are no tenants in the units. Where we have empty units and where tenants decide by the end of December, I have to wait until the end of December, that they do not wish to purchase their units, we will then sell those units to the communities. There will be some conditions attached to it, because we want to ensure that our employees whether they be butchers, bakers or candlestick makers, have some secure, affordable housing.

So, it is our intention to go out at the community level to sell those units, and it could be to a variety of operations. It could be, as we have had discussions with the Gwich'in, in Mr. Krutko 's riding, it could be the hamlet council in Mr. Ningark 's riding, it could be a variety of individuals in your riding. So, right now I have to wait until the end of December to determine how many houses are left over which will include the empty ones plus the ones the tenants have not purchased. Then we will set up a process to ensure that your community has adequate opportunity to purchase those units. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not understand. There are no units for sale before the end of December? Is that correct?

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Supplementary To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Well, the process that we put in place was because we were looking at the tenants to purchase the units first, okay. So, we were looking at a process that would give the tenants an extended time period, and, primarily, if I may, and it is because of the teachers, because they were out for the summer and they came back and needed a little more time to purchase units, so we extended the time period to allow them to do that. So, after December the units that are not purchased, we will work with the communities to determine how these houses will be purchased.

I would have to check with Mr. Voytilla, but I would imagine the empty ones would be in the same category because we would not want to go out several times. It is my belief that in early January we will work out an arrangement with each community as to which houses are left over and who wishes to purchase them. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Question 59-13(4): Staff Units For Sale In The Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Ootes .

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Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to go back to the item on the disclosure motion that Mr. Picco spoke about. It has been seven months since this motion was passed. Could the Premier tell me if the Department of Justice been working on this for seven months?

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Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes . Mr. Premier .

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Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the member is well aware, the Department of Justice works on all the legislation for this government as well, and every issue that this government addresses has to go through the Department of Justice. They are very, very busy. This is one issue that they are addressing as well. Thank you.

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Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I trust we have not been paying the lawyers for seven months to look into this situation, Mr. Speaker. However, my question would be, what seems to be the argument of why this cannot be released? It is my understanding that the federal government, B.C. and Ontario and other jurisdictions all have public disclosure of these items, and I am wondering, what seems to be the difficulty here? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion Of Disclosure

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 98

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I do not have the briefing out handy that I had from the Department of Justice. I did read the whole briefing though, out loud in this House, though, previously, and the concerns that they did have, I would not want to state anything unless I was sure, that I had it exactly right, word for word. Thank you.

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Question 60-13(4): Work Done On Motion