Debates of March 3rd, 2003

This is page numbers 437 - 472 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was language .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Annual Report On The Staff Retention Policy

50th Anniversary Of The Vincent Massey Branch Of The Royal Canadian Legion

Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing

Support For The GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Lack Of Performance Indicators In NWT Schools

Observations On GNWT Capital Spending On Youth And Recreation

Reflections On Patriotism

The Report Of The Review Of The Official Languages Act

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Cost Of Harmonization Initiative

Impact Of Harmonization Initiative

Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Intent Of The Harmonization Initiative

GNWT Harmonization Initiative

Written Question 2-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Committee Report 9-14(6): "one Land, Many Voices": The Final Report Of The Special Committee On The Review Of The Official Languages Act

Motion That Committee Report 9-14(6) Be Received By Assembly And Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Bill 10:

An Act To Amend The Hospital Insurance And Health And Social Services Administration Act

Bill 9: Youth Justice Statutes Amendment Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004

Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Mr. McLeod , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 437

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Annual Report On The Staff Retention Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 437

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on October 21, 2003, I asked the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat whether all annual reports required in the staff retention policy had been laid before the Legislative Assembly as required under

section 20 of that policy. I had been unable to find them.

Mr. Speaker, I subsequently received a letter from the Minister admitting the information had not been tabled as required by the policy and promising to ensure that it was included in the next public service annual report. The letter noted that the information had been provided to members in a presentation to committee. It went on to say the information provided was not consistent with the requirements set out in the policy. The Minister attached a copy of the report provided to the committee to the letter he sent me.

Since the report had been provided to a committee, I followed our policy and approached the Minister's office for permission to share it with the person who had raised the issue with me. Mr. Speaker, since the staff retention policy required publicly reporting the information to the Assembly, you can imagine my surprise when the Minister's office refused permission to release the document.

We are supposed to have an open and accountable government. We have a policy in place that requires information to be publicly reported. I requested the information publicly in this House, yet I was provided the response by way of private correspondence and then told I could not share it. Mr. Speaker, that's not right.

The Minister and the government must follow a policy and provide information publicly as set out in their own policy, not just in the future, but for all periods in the past that were to be covered by the policy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Annual Report On The Staff Retention Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 437

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Braden .

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50th Anniversary Of The Vincent Massey Branch Of The Royal Canadian Legion

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 437

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The number of organizations in the NWT that are more than 50 years old is a rather short list, but this weekend one new organization was added to that, Mr. Speaker. The Royal Canadian Legion, Branch 164, held a banquet on Saturday to mark the occasion; the occasion of the naming of the branch, for Right Honourable Vincent Massey, a distinguished Canadian diplomat and Governor General, whose name was taken for that branch on February 27, 1953. The Yellowknife Legion's days really go back a number of years earlier, Mr. Speaker, to 1945 when some 19 returning veterans from the Second World War gathered fellow veterans together and started today's organization.

Mr. Speaker, the 470 members of today's Yellowknife branch joined branches in Hay River and Inuvik as members of the Canadian Legion's Half Century Club. Across Canada there are some 1,800 branches, some 750,000 members, and they have a 78-year history. They started in 1925 to help assure better pensions for veterans and since then, the Royal Canadian Legion has become an institution in towns and cities across Canada.

Mr. Speaker, legions pay their own way. They pay taxes, they have a big payroll, they have extensive youth and member programs and make contributions in the millions of dollars and hundred of thousands of hours of community service. In Yellowknife alone, the branch here anticipates returning some $250,000 to the community. There are six legion branches in the NWT that are valued parts of our heritage, our community and our future. Canada owes much to the men and women who served in the field of battle and in the name of peace, Mr. Speaker.

I want to pay tribute to all veterans in the Second World War who were at Saturday evening's event: Dusty Miller of the Royal Canadian Air Force; Jack Adderley of the Canadian Navy; Bishop John Sperry of the British Navy; Ethel Wilson of the Canadian Army and from the Korean War, veteran Jan Stirling also of the Canadian Army. Mr. Speaker, we congratulate the Legion, its members and wish them a great future. Thank you.

---Applause

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50th Anniversary Of The Vincent Massey Branch Of The Royal Canadian Legion

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 437

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 437

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to raise some concerns about the government's proposed harmonization project. This project was first recommended during the 13th Assembly. The goal of harmonization was to create a common policy framework that would see all income treated in a credible and consistent manner and a policy that ensures public housing rental rates provide work incentives for lower income earners. Mr. Speaker, in my eyes, this initiative was flawed from the start.

In order to treat all income the same, what has happened is dollars are counted and rent is assessed without consideration of the sources. For example, in determining a household's income, any teenager over 15 who has a job will have to submit pay stubs to the Housing Corporation. Their pay will be considered as part of the calculations for rent. As it has been so rightly pointed out, how many people have a mortgage based on the income of their children, and how many children are expected to contribute to the monthly mortgage payment?

To continue on the issue of harmonization, Mr. Speaker, this double standard has been created through the harmonization initiative. When rental rates are based solely on household income, the size and condition of the public housing unit are not factored in. It does not seem right to me that someone living in an older two-bedroom unit in need of repairs should be paying the same rent as someone in a new three-bedroom unit just because their income is the same. The size of the family supported by the income also needs to be considered.

It is only fair to recognize that $1,000 supporting two people is going to go a lot further than $1,000 supporting 10 people. Determining rental rates solely on pay stubs does Northerners a disservice.

Mr. Speaker, many homes in my region are considered in core need. That means they are not suitable for living in. The number one reason why some of the homes are in core need is because of overcrowding. There is a need for more private housing and a need to free up more public housing. This initiative does not address either of these issues.

In the Dogrib region, we have a young population. It is only in the last few years that economic opportunities have been opening up. I would like to see every opportunity made for people to work and it's unfortunate that this harmonization initiative is creating a disincentive to work by penalizing the working poor. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

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Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 438

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The honourable Member for North Slave is seeking unanimous consent. Do I hear any nays? You have unanimous consent, Mr. Lafferty . Continue.

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Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 438

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, the North is going through an economic boom and this government is saying that the number of people on income support is declining. If this trend continues as it is expected to, there would be nothing left to harmonize. We would be better off focusing on increasing the amount of housing available, both in the private sector and the public sector. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 438

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Support For The GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 438

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to support the GNWT's harmonization initiative. Mr. Speaker, I think it's important that we, as legislators, remember that we are here to serve the people, and that we should always endeavor to remember that we are here to serve the people and that we should always endeavour to remember those that are in need the most. The harmonization initiative, Mr. Speaker, was welcomed in Hay River because one of the basic premises of the public housing rent scale was to ensure that the greatest benefit went to those most in need.

Well, Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of fear mongering going on in the last several months around the harmonization initiative. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, we are not hearing from the single mothers in public housing who would stand to have their rents decreased by $100 a month on average, if the harmonization initiative was prepared to go ahead. Mr. Speaker, in Hay River, for example, 71 of our current public housing tenants would enjoy a rent decrease; 18 of our public housing tenants would have their rents increased, but only because nine of these people earn an average of $2,300 per month and the other nine earn in excess of $3,300 a month.

Mr. Speaker, it is my feeling that if people are earning that kind of money, they should be paying their fair share in rent. No, Mr. Speaker, it appears that we are hearing most from the small percentage of people whose rents are due to increase as a result of the primary premise behind public housing, and that is rent geared to income. So, Mr. Speaker, in my way of thinking, if this vocal minority is going to have their rents increased, then their rent hasn't properly reflected their income up until now. The harmonization initiative that is proposed, Mr. Speaker, helps those people who need help the most, namely young families with small income.

Mr. Speaker, I have worked very closely with seniors in Hay River and some of them will be affected by the new rent scale. The feeling among our seniors is that they are people who have always paid their own way in life, and like the independence that they have derived from it. So they are prepared to pay some of their income towards housing. I'm not saying, Mr. Speaker, that there are no improvements that could be made to the housing harmonization initiative, such as grandfathering some clients and then putting some clients at full rent. I think there is some improvement that could be made there but I think we've got to start listening to the people that need us the most, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Support For The GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 438

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Lack Of Performance Indicators In NWT Schools

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 438

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had opportunity to travel home this past weekend and talk to a number of constituents during the trip and a couple on the way returning here to Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, in the last week, there have been Members who raised issues around education. As last week was Education Week, it was an opportunity to raise issues around that, whether it was students or whether it was quality. Mr. Speaker, one of the things that came out of the attention that was paid to it last week were some issues raised in this House by my colleague, Mr. Bell .

One of my constituents pointed out that Mr. Bell raised some very legitimate concerns about what we find with our education system. As I talked to this individual, I found out more information or lack of it. As Mr. Bell pointed out, we can pull out all kinds of stats around people smoking or STD's as we call them around the Northwest Territories, but tell us what quality of education our children are getting and we can get a number of different answers.

For example, Mr. Speaker, I can say that one of my children is in Grade 10 and that can also be interpreted to say they are not only in Grade 10, they could be in year 10. They aren't necessarily achieving at the Grade 10 level but they could be taking some other courses lower than that. Mr. Speaker, I've raised the question on quite a number of occasions as a Member of this or a previous Assembly about a social pass or peer advance. There are a number of different terms and there is some disagreement on how those issues should go.

But, Mr. Speaker, as Members of the Assembly, we make decisions based on information provided and we need to get accurate information to know if, in fact, the system we are operating within is providing accurate details so that as a parent, I can make the right decisions for my child in school. What I am hearing around the table from different people, those involved in education, is that is not always the case because it can be said that your child is attending and achieving at Grade 6 math, Grade 9 social studies and so on, Mr. Speaker.

But, when we ask the education system to provide us information on what grade they are on, they have difficulty in providing that. So I will have appropriate questions for the Minister later. Thank you.

---Applause

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Lack Of Performance Indicators In NWT Schools

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 439

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Range Lake . Ms. Lee .

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Observations On GNWT Capital Spending On Youth And Recreation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 439

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to report to the House about some comments and observations my constituents are making about the capital expenditure priorities of the government on new recreational facilities. Mr. Speaker, this goes to the point I have been making on numerous occasions in this House already, which is that the capital spending on territorial facilities such as the Young Offender Facility and the Correctional Centre does not make it any less necessary for this government to do its part towards the funding of recreational facilities in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, everyone knows that the capital city is experiencing rapid growth and it seems that our property taxes are on an upwards spiral, but our taxes are not enough to meet the demands being put on our community infrastructure. We're falling behind in land development and underground water and sewer pipe replacement. The one that is really falling victim to this, Mr. Speaker, is our youth and recreational facilities. For the most part of past winter months, this city of 18,000 have had to share one ice pad.

A large part of this had to do with the lack of funding which made it necessary to extend the life of the old Gerry Murphy Arena as long as possible until it was shut down before the new one could be built. We are very glad that the second ice pad at the new multiplex is operating now, as it has eased the burden, but the sad fact is that this is far from enough to meet the needs of ice time in the city.

It has been brought to my attention, Mr. Speaker, by my constituent, that the city of Iqaluit, with a population of under 9,000, has two ice pads. Yellowknife, with a population of 18,000, just now has two ice pads even with the new one coming on stream. We are in need of at least three ice pads for the population we serve and this means we have no time to rest with the new pads up and running; we have to work on funding the third ice pad. I understand, Mr. Speaker, that the funding for recreation facilities are done by this government through block funding to the city.

This gives no comfort to my constituents who can see with their eyes, the irony of a young offender facility going up side by side with the recreational facility that has had to go through such a struggle to get its funding. I can appreciate how my constituents ask why we seem to spend more money to house young offenders than helping youth to stay out of trouble and lead a healthy and productive life. I really believe it is high time that this government acknowledged that it is falling behind the needs of this growing city, and that it cannot hide behind block funding when it comes to showing commitment to recreational facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Observations On GNWT Capital Spending On Youth And Recreation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 439

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Colleagues, I would like to direct your attention to the presence in the visitor's gallery of the Honourable John McCallum, the Minister of National Defence; the Honourable Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Secretary of State for Children and Youth, and Member of Parliament for the Western Arctic; along with Admiral Raymond Zuliani, Chief of Reserve Cadets with the Department of National Defence in Ottawa and also Colonel Norris Pettis, Commander of Canadian Forces, Northern Area. Welcome to the House.

---Applause

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Observations On GNWT Capital Spending On Youth And Recreation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 439

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River South . Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Reflections On Patriotism

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 439

Groenewegan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak about an issue which is somewhat personal, and that is patriotism. I was inspired by my attendance at a couple of functions over the past two days. On Saturday night I had the opportunity to join with the guests and members of the Royal Canadian Legion, Local 164, Vincent Massey Branch here in Yellowknife. They were celebrating 50 years since the inauguration of the name of their club. There was a lovely a Capella rendition of our National Anthem, with some audience participation.

This morning I had the opportunity to attend the unveiling of new Canadian stamp commemorating the 60th anniversary of the Canadian Rangers. The function included senior representatives from Canada Post, our Western Arctic Member of Parliament, Ethel Blondin-Andrew and the Honourable John McCallum, Minister of National Defence. There were many military personnel, Canadian Rangers and dignitaries, including Commissioner Hansen, and Ministers Antoine and Steen. The venue for this event was the Canadian Forces Northern Area Headquarters.

Former Speaker and Member of this Assembly Red Pedersen was in attendance along with his son and grandson; three generations, all of them participants past and present in the Canadian Rangers program.

It was a truly proud Canadian moment, but, Mr. Speaker, with no offence intended to the organizers, there was something very Canadian missing from the program. There was no singing of our National Anthem. When I think of the words of our anthem, I cannot think of a function where the words, "The true north strong and free" and "we stand on guard for thee," would have been more apropos than in the presence of representatives of our military and at a ceremony honouring our Canadian Northern Rangers.

I raise this today because I attend many formal functions and receptions celebrating truly Canadian achievements and remembrances, and many times the National Anthem is not included in the program. Sometimes when it is, otherwise not normally shy people sing about their country in a voice barely louder than a whisper. As leaders where we have an opportunity to influence agendas and programs of programs and functions, we should encourage proud, if somewhat, reserved Canadians to demonstrate their love of country by participating in an enthusiastic and patriotic rendition of O Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Reflections On Patriotism

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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The Report Of The Review Of The Official Languages Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 440

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be speaking in my language, so if you could turn to channel two and put on your ears, I would appreciate it.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, we travelled to 17 communities. We received a lot of opinions on the languages and the work we've done on the Official Languages Act. We had very important work to do. We worked very hard on it. We had forwarded all our recommendations on how the government is going to be dealing with issues, showing people in Canada how the people are working with their language issues. We also did research and we have completed that work today. We have made many recommendations. We have over 20 pages. When we make recommendations, it's for the use of the people when we do recommendations.

We can't expect the government to hang onto our language for us. We are here to help you. It's up to you to hold onto your language. We are here to help you. I am very happy today. I feel warm in my heart. I am here with my committee with the recommendations we will be forwarding. We have 65 recommendations that we have put forth how we are going to be working on these issues. We, the government, are here and we agree we are going to be very helpful towards you, so in the future we do not lose our language. People are saying that our language is how we understand the language in our land in Canada.

So we will help each other. The society we have referred to, we are going to have a better life. That's all I am going to tell you. The next one we are going to be going according to the document. Thank you very much.

---Applause

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The Report Of The Review Of The Official Languages Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

At this time, I would like to recognize former Languages Commissioner Ms. Betty Harnum and also our Language Commissioner of the Northwest Territories Ms. Fibbie Tatti.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize today Mary Rose Sundberg from Dettah. She's the Dogrib interpreter today, as well as Mary Rose and Betty Harnum who are instructors with the Dogrib literacy class in Dettah. Some of the students here today are -- I can't see everyone -- Doreen Liske, Edith Wellin, John Crapeau, Therese Sangris, Beatrice Sangris from Dettah and Lucy Goulet from Ndilo. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Roland .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Ms. Rosie Albert, down from Inuvik, as well as translators Esther McLeod and Mr. Leonard Harry. Sorry about that, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Nitah .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize my constituent and interpreter today Ms. Georgina Biscaye, Sabet Biscaye, the Chipewyan language coordinator for the Akaitcho Territory. I would also like to recognize Wayne Balanoff, who is working with the special committee that has reviewed the Official Languages Act, and his wife, Helen Balanoff, with the NWT Literacy Council. I would also like to take time to recognize our Member of Parliament, and our Minister of National Defence, and our friend from the south, the mayor of Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Member for Nunakput , Mr. Steen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize and welcome Sherley Esau from Sachs Harbour. Sherley is an Inuvialuktun teacher in Sachs.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Welcome. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 440

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Paula Anderson, the regional Cree languages coordinator from Fort Smith.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Bell .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a couple of people. Daniel Lamoureux, executive director of the Federation Franco-TeNOise, Lyne Gagnon, also from Yellowknife, president of Yellowknife's French community centre project and Michel Lefebvre from Yellowknife, who is the coordinator of the Yellowknife's French community centre project and single window options. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would not be forgiven if I didn't recognize two cousins of mine in the gallery, Rose Albert and Sherley Esau. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Welcome. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a pleasure today to recognize the mayor of Hay River, His Worship Duncan McNeil.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Minister Ootes .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Robert Galipeau, manager of language services with the department and also Benoit Boutin, who has been working on the language committee for the last several months, almost a year. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat . Mr. Speaker, in a letter responding to my question last fall about the reporting requirement under the staff retention policy, Mr. Handley said deputy ministers would be reporting to the Legislative Assembly as required by the staff retention policy in the future. Mr. Speaker, he made no promise to provide reports that should have been tabled. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister undertake now to provide past-due reports to this House?

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Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the FMBS , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, yes, I will do that. Thank you.

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Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the staff retention policy has been in place for a significant amount of time. Can the Minister advise us what years will be covered in the report he plans to table in the House?

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Supplementary To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the FMBS , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, if I remember correctly, the staff retention policy came into effect in November 2000, so I expect that we should have reports going to year 2001. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister advise the House when he plans to table this information?

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Supplementary To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the FMBS , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the staff retention policy is one that really I believe is under the authority of the Executive, so I will speak with the Premier and work out when we will be able to do this.

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Further Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thought that as part of human resources, that FMBS was responsible for all personnel matters. I wonder if the Minister can tell this House if he's confident that provisions of the staff retention policy have been followed with all employees to date.

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Supplementary To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the FMBS , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 441

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the staff retention policy is the responsibility of the corporate human resources services of the Department of Executive and also they work closely with the director of labour relations and compensation in FMBS. So in many ways it is joint in its implementation. To my knowledge, all aspects of the staff retention policy have been followed with any employees whose jobs have been terminated for any reason. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Question 132-14(6): Staff Retention Policy Reporting Requirements

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question would be directed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , along the lines of my Member's statement. Mr. Speaker, concerns continue to come out during this process as we go through information on the main estimates and some questions were raised during the Department of Education, Culture and Employment's review. One was on quality information.

I would like to know from the Minister, when a parent is given a report card for their child in school - and let's use Grade 6 as an example - when that child brings that report card home or the parent goes to pick it up from the school, when the parent reads Grade 6, what does that actually mean? Are they achieving that level? My understanding is the use of satisfactory, unsatisfactory or excellent is grading. Can the Minister inform us of that? Thank you.

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Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am informed by my department that the instruction that goes out to the DECs and to the schools, to the teachers, must indicate the level of courses that the students are taking, thus indicating the level they are at. Thank you.

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Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have to check into that detail to see the fashion, the detail of the reporting, Mr. Speaker, and then get back to the Member on that.

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For advancement into the next grade level, from K to nine, is there requirement to achieve a certain level or is that only after departmentals? Does it start at 10 or just a Grade 12 requirement? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am confused on the question there. Perhaps the Member could repeat that. He referred to a number of grade levels there. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Roland , could you clarify your question?

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Gladly. For grading a child from K to nine, is there a requirement to pass a test to get further on? Is that a requirement at all between K to nine?

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Testing is done, Mr. Speaker, and we also do testing across the board with Alberta testing, for example, but also within class. My understanding is that passing is done on the basis of that and that students advance accordingly but they stay with their peers. Students must take classes that they did not pass, Mr. Speaker, and I will get the Member further information. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For further clarification, is there a requirement for a student to achieve a certain result before they can advance? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will get further information for the Member on that because it may depend upon different courses. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In Nwt Schools

Question 133-14(6): Grading Levels In NWT Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Delorey .

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Question 134-14(6): Cost Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 442

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned in my Member's statement, the premise of public housing is to assist low income earners obtain housing. The rent charged should be reflective of their income. The new harmonization initiative will go a long way in assisting public housing clients who need our help the most, single mothers and young families with low incomes. The harmonization initiative has been in the works for some time now and there has been a lot of work done by these government departments towards this worthwhile initiative.

In recent days, I have heard some rumblings that the harmonization initiative might be scrapped. I certainly hope we can salvage it without scrapping it, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Minister to please advise this House, how much has been spent to date on this harmonization initiative between the two departments. What has been expended to date? I realize there's been a lot of work done. How much has been spent to date? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 134-14(6): Cost Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Allen .

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Question 134-14(6): Cost Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I take that question as notice. Thank you.

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Question 134-14(6): Cost Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Question has been taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Delorey .

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Question 135-14(6): Impact Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, my questions are again for the Minister responsible for the harmonization policy. As I stated in my Member's statement, in Hay River 71 households would see their rent decrease because of the harmonization initiative. I don't think we can afford to ignore these people, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister please advise this House what percentage of public housing clients on a territorial basis would see a decrease in their rent through the harmonization initiative? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 135-14(6): Impact Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Allen .

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Question 135-14(6): Impact Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of questions that are related, so I will take that as notice. Thank you.

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Question 135-14(6): Impact Of Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The question has been taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Honourable Roger Allen , Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, when the harmonization initiative was introduced in 2000 to the Members, in the material given to us it states that 50 percent of social housing clients also are income support clients and 50 percent of income support clients live in social housing. Mr. Speaker, today the numbers read differently. Only 38 percent of public housing tenants are on income support. Basically, two-thirds of public housing tenants do not require harmonization.

I would like to ask the Minister if he can re-look at this harmonization initiative and wait until I get all the hard evidence of how it's going to affect people before he goes ahead with Cabinet to introduce it fully on April 1st? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Allen .

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Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will reiterate my functional role as Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. I am responsible for the implementation of this policy, therefore, it is a Cabinet decision and direction to implement the policy effective April 1st of 2003. However, we don't have all the particular details, specific details the Member is requesting, so I am prepared to complete that in the next couple of days and respond back. Thank you.

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Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, will people in Yellowknife, Hay River and Inuvik, compared to the smaller communities, pay the same rates for two-bedroom or a three-bedroom, or whatever size the units are and the conditions? Will those be considered?

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Supplementary To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the size of the units, all rents assessed by the NWT Housing Corporation at the current time are based on income. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we heard today, some MLAs are supporting and some are not. In order to fully support this harmonization initiative, we need to have more information. I would like to ask the Minister if he can give us information to see how many people are living on pensions that are going to be for the rest of their lives, how many are single parents who are going to be affected in the Territories, where they live and all that? Mr. Speaker, some larger centres have people who have larger pensions to live on. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

I would just remind Members that your supplementary should be based on your original questions and not make up new questions as you go. Mr. Lafferty , could you keep your question specific to the original question you started with? You are wandering. Restate your question.

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Supplementary To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How is this harmonization project going to affect people in the larger centres and the makeup of people who would be affected, the people who are on smaller pensions, the larger pensions, the low income earners, the middle income earners? How will they be affected?

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Supplementary To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 443

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, without question, most tenants will be affected by either an increase or decrease, but the process remains the same. The process remains the same based on income, even though public housing rents or incomes and income support benefits will be treated equally. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under the harmonization project, some communities are supporting this initiative, but in Yellowknife just in the last two days, I have received e-mails of single families that have three or four children, no maintenance support, who are going to get an increase of about $300 per month. Is this information giving the true facts for what is going to be happening for harmonization in the future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's a very hypothetical question. Although we do have some examples of how rents will be calculated, that has been communicated through LHOs and various stakeholder groups, including NGOs, that have some form of vested interest in housing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Question 136-14(6): Review Of The Harmonization Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . I would like the Minister to inform the House as to whether he has gone through all the figures from across the Territories with regard to the harmonization initiative to see how many people are going to be seeing increases, how many people are going to be seeing decreases in different classes of people? Has the Minister gone over the figures? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen .

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Return To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Quite frankly, no. I am awaiting transcripts of a meeting I had this morning and I will compile that information in the next 48 hours and report back. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's kind of disturbing to me when a Minister is coming forward with a program to hopefully implement in April and hasn't gone over the figures as to what impact it is going to have on the Territories. That's a little disturbing, Mr. Speaker, but I am hoping that the Minister will look into it and come back with some figures that I was questioning earlier. Is the Minister prepared to make some changes to the way this initiative is being introduced in other aspects, as far as the grandfathering clause he's put in for some seniors and full rate

schedule for others? Is the Minister prepared to look at some of those things instead of just scrapping the whole thing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We haven't scrapped the concept. Neither have we scrapped the policy, but we are open to suggestions. I indicated last week in this House I am more than prepared to take the suggestion back to Cabinet and respond back to the Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Further Return To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this whole harmonization initiative goes a long way towards addressing the needs that we have in the Territories. Some of our clients really need a lot of help and we are trying to get a system in place that's going to be sustainable over the years. You may call me on this, Mr. Speaker, because it's a little bit different...

---Laughter

...but is the Minister aware how much money the federal government is proposing to cut from our budget in line with public housing that this harmonization program is trying to address? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Question 137-14(6): Review Of Harmonization Initiative Data

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

I will have to rule that question out of order, it is a whole new area you are covering there. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Bell .

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Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, and it's about harmonization. Given that ECE and the Housing Corporation collaborated on the harmonization project, it's a fair Minister to put the questions to. We know that rent in public housing will now be geared to income, and this is something the two departments agreed on. Is that to say then that it doesn't really matter if income earners have two dependents as opposed to four dependents in their household, what matters is how much money they make?

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Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 444

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we designed the program so that there would be benefit to seniors, students and income support clients and low income families. The way it treats low income families - this is a national standard, Mr. Speaker - is $3,833 and anyone under that would receive a benefit to have their rent reduced by up to $250, Mr. Speaker. We have approximately 90 percent of low income working families that will see their rent go down. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's very interesting, but I don't think it answers the question. I am curious to know if it matters how many people, how many dependents, what my expenses in the household are. I don't think it does, but I would like the Minister to clarify, does it matter how many dependents I have or is the issue only really income? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is correct. It's based on income. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In an effort to alleviate hardship, we decided to phase in some of these rents, so that they weren't too onerous. Can the Minister confirm that and also indicate who we have decided to phase rents in for? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we had decided that we would grandfather students and seniors and that we would do that on the basis of maximizing the amount of rent they would pay to $200 for the first year and that would change by 50 percent. In the case of seniors, who are on pensions and old age security, with their minimal pensions and old age security, they would pay approximately $20 and that's for heat, electricity and rent. About 75 percent of seniors will pay less than $100 with the majority of those paying about $20, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I certainly think the phased-in approach is a good one. I guess my question would be, why then have we chosen to ignore low income families in this phase-in approach? We decided to do it, and I think it's the right thing for seniors and students, but why are we ignoring low income families? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are not ignoring low income families. Those on income support will not be affected. Any rent increases they experience... if they are on full income support, they will have funding provided to them to cover those increases. For low income families, we have established a cut-off of $3,833 that gives them an opportunity to go out and work and not be negatively impacted by the fact that they are out there working. We will reduce the rents accordingly, or the Housing Corporation will reduce the rent accordingly, up to $250, Mr.

Speaker, according to the amount that they would be paying. This is to provide an incentive for individuals to earn funding, Mr. Speaker, and go back to work. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Question 138-14(6): Calculation Of Income For Public Housing Residents

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier regarding the harmonization. We've seen this harmonization initiative passed from one Minister to another on several occasions now. Can the Premier tell us who is the actual lead Minister on this initiative?

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Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The question is directed to the Premier , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The lead Minister for the harmonization initiative is Minister Roger Allen . Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Allen , the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , has indicated to a number of us on several occasions that he's declared conflict of interest. I would like to ask the Premier if that is actually the case. Has he declared conflict of interest on this issue to Cabinet?

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Supplementary To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 445

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the development of the initiative and the policy, there was conflict of interest declared on dealing with certain issues. Now we are into the implementation aspect of the policy, so it's not an issue any longer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am having a difficult time following what the difference is between implementation and development stages. Once you declare a conflict, I would imagine that it would stay in place. Can I get a clarification, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, during the development of the initiative and the policy, Ministers were obliged to speak in an unbiased, fair and honest way to the development of the initiative and the policy. The Ministers that felt they were somehow less than able to speak fully to the issues were obliged to say so. If they felt they had a conflict, those were declared at the time. The policy and initiative itself was adopted and it's no longer a debate. It's about implementing and putting in place an accepted position that every Minister in this Cabinet is expected to take full responsibility for.

So the decision is made and we are into the implementation part of a decision. I think that's what the Member is asking. So there is a difference. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am still not totally clear on why you can be in conflict in certain areas and not in others, but I would certainly be interested to hear why the Minister declared he had a conflict in the first place. I would like to ask the Premier if he would tell us that. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister, we can say in general terms, felt because of family ties and the makeup of his constituency and the closeness of the issue in his particular riding and his family, he felt there was a conflict and we accepted that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Question 139-14(6): GNWT Harmonization Strategy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Honourable Jake Ootes , Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . The first month after April 1st, how much would this government be saving under the harmonization program for income support renters for public housing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure we would be saving any money as a department with this. Our department traditionally pays the $32 for income support clients and if that rent increases for income support clients, as is stated, it will not affect income support clients with having to pay more money. It will not affect them. I want to repeat that. If on their bills, they do receive a bill for more money, then that is paid for by our department and returned to us from the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

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Return To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department is paying for the $32 for the rent. Who pays for the rest of the rent to run this building? I would like the Minister to answer that, please.

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Traditionally public housing has been a program run by the Housing Corporation to provide subsidized housing for individuals throughout the Northwest Territories, those people who are in need on low incomes, income support clients, low income students, low income working families and so forth. That funding is paid for by the Housing Corporation, Mr. Speaker, as part of the social housing program. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister how much is his department paying for income support clients in the private sector in Yellowknife or the larger centres. Can you tell me that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 446

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From HarmonizationFurther Return To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 447

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What happens is when we can't access public housing, Mr. Speaker -- and this is one of the reasons for having harmonization -- is we must pay the rent, whatever the rent is out in the public and that is of concern to us. We want to ensure that our clients can access social housing or what we would call public housing. For that reason, we are concerned about the availability of those units because our department, in turn, would have to pay the private rent in the event that we can't get them into public housing. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From HarmonizationFurther Return To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 447

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Question 140-14(6): Income Support Savings Resulting From Harmonization

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 447

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister, in his first answer, said that he didn't know what it was going to cost after