Debates of Feb. 13th, 2007

This is page numbers 811 - 860 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was communities .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Tobacco Control Act

Support For Timber Harvesting And Production

Caribou Management Decisions

Respect For The Contributions Of Elders

Water And Sewer Services Funding

Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Ambulance Service In Gameti

Unfair Treatment Of Barren-ground Caribou Outfitters

Caribou Management Decisions

Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Caribou Management Decisions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Water And Sewer Services Funding

Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Ambulance Service In Gameti

On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Caribou Management Decisions

Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Caribou Management Decisions

Water And Sewer Services Funding

Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Written Question 43-15(5): Actions In Response To Caribou Tag Reductions

Written Question 44-15(5): Municipal Funding Under The New Deal

Written Question 45-15(5): Complaints Filed Against Subsidized Housing Tenants

Written Question 46-15(5): Outfitter Compensation

Written Question 47-15(5): Resource Development Royalties

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Tabled Document 90-15(5): GNWT's Response To The Report On Pre-budget Consultation

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Evaluation Of Capital Spending And Community Access To Infrastructure

Implementation Of Community Energy Plans

Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 20: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Hon. Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Hon. Kevin Menicoche , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 811

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Mr. Roland .

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Minister's Statement 66-15(5): Tobacco Control Act

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 811

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tobacco is the single largest cause of preventable disease in the NWT. It causes heart disease, stroke, respiratory illness and many other diseases. Many have lost their lives or those of loves ones because of smoking-related cancers.

Since January 21st, the new Tobacco Control Act has been in effect throughout our territory. The act reinforces this government's initiative to encourage healthy, smoke-free lifestyles for all northerners. As we enter the fifth year of the Territorial Tobacco Control Strategy, the act is a further commitment to continue our government's efforts to reduce the NWT smoking rate, which is twice the national average.

Highlights of the Tobacco Control Act include:

• The sale and supply of tobacco to those under 18 years of age is prohibited;

• Retailers cannot display tobacco products and tobacco advertising;

• Tobacco can no longer be sold in pharmacies, athletic or recreational facilities;

• Smoking is not allowed on outdoor patios of restaurants or bars, complementing the existing Workers' Compensation Board smoke-free workplace legislation; and

• All retailers must post signage prescribed by the act in their place of business.

Also within the act is a provision allowing for the use of tobacco for spiritual or ceremonial purposes in recognition of traditional aboriginal cultural practices.

The Tobacco Control Act is enforced by inspectors to ensure this legislation is being upheld. Substantial fines or other penalties will be imposed on offenders.

Preliminary investigations done by our environmental health officers during the first week the act was implemented have shown positive results. While 13 of 35 retailers did not fully comply with the act during a first inspection, all were fully compliant after 24-hour warnings were issued.

By removing tobacco and related products and advertising from public sight, our government is doing more to ensure tobacco use declines, especially among our youth. The act will help those trying to quit by denormalizing the product.

Our government is committed to the health and well-being of all northerners and we must do all we can to achieve a healthier lifestyle. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 66-15(5): Tobacco Control Act

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 811

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Ministers' statements. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Support For Timber Harvesting And Production

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 811

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd just like to use my Member's statement today to talk about the environment and natural resources forest management sector, which takes up more than half of the total department's budget every year, and we're not talking about some small change here, Mr. Speaker. This is something to the tune of nearly $30 million per year, yet to this day I do not know of one successful timber producer in the forest industry here in the NWT. So I'm just curious as to where all these resources are going, because I can see where our actual forest resources are going every year and that being up in smoke, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to see our own timber products going into all our mega projects here in the NWT such as the mining industry, and the oil and gas exploration and development industry, and our growing housing construction industry. The potential for local commercial production is huge, and I do not understand why the GNWT does not openly endorse and support community-based timber harvesting and productions in areas where the viability is blatantly obvious.

I would like to see more dollars in support services in timber business proposal development and marketing initiatives, in areas where the most expertise is lacking in the commercial zones and small communities, and stop spending these large sums of money counting trees year after year.

Later on in today's session I will be asking the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources how we can reassess the forest management dollars that are being spent by this government. Thank you.

---Applause

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Support For Timber Harvesting And Production

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to speak again today about caribou and the importance of this great resource that it provides to our people.

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I take my job and my responsibility to my constituents very seriously. I have a duty to represent all of my constituents and, when it comes to the harvesting of caribou, I have aboriginal harvesters, non-aboriginal harvesters and the outfitters to represent. The difficult task in all of this is the fact that I have not been given the opportunity to debate, question and discuss the crucial piece of information that is missing and that is the numbers.

ENR itself has some very conflicting numbers in terms of total number of animals in this territory. The Minister of ENR has all but admitted that his department does not have a concrete answer on what the total population of caribou is in the Northwest Territories today. Yet his department was ready to kill the caribou outfitting industry in the North Slave region based on best guesses, without consultation with Nunavut and, worse yet, without consultation with the Regular Members of this House.

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

An Hon. Member

Shame.

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

The big question is how and when was the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment informed about the proposal that ENR sent to the Wekeezhii Renewable Resources Board calling for a reduction in tags to 350, which would, in essence, kill a multi-million dollar industry in our territory. Certainly, government has played a vital role in the growth and the development of outfitting in our territory and it would be very interesting to see what communication, if any, took place between the two departments.

Mr. Speaker, I must thank the Minister for intervening and getting the number of tags increased to 750 for the coming year. But the reality is, you can't make decisions based on incomplete information, especially with the importance of this great resource. Take for example the harvest of caribou in the North Slave region last year, estimated at 5,800 animals, Mr. Speaker. Why or how can ENR contribute the complete harvest to one herd, the Bathurst? It is completely and utterly absurd to do that when we know full well that at least four other herds frequent the area. We have to get to the bottom of it and that is the numbers have to be proven, Mr. Speaker.

The department, in 2005, told the Canadian Cooperative for Wildlife that there was an estimated 1.5 million animals in our territory, which would indicate a very healthy population. Mr. Speaker, I'm very pleased to see the inclusion of some more funding to get the answers we need. This resource is far too important to too many people to rely on half answers and half truths. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Respect For The Contributions Of Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement is on the contribution and the wellness of our elders in the Northwest Territories. I would like to ask the Member responsible for Seniors, later on in the House here, in terms of how do we take care of our elders. Our elders are our guiding post for us young leaders here. From time to time, we go to them to seek advice on such issues as caribou, climate change, the water, the environment, even the way of life that we live today. Our elders are the ones that provide us this strong direction in life.

Over the last couple of months, we have lost a lot of elders in our region. We have lost elders in other regions, also. Mr. Speaker, the role of our life today has changed quite considerably from our parents and our grandparents. As young children growing up in our communities, we were also told to go to see our elders and ask for direction and sit with them. This one time that my mother and I were driving to Fort Good Hope on the winter road, my mother told me a story of an elder when she was young; she was 14 years old or so.

This elder always told her to come and sit down and she could put her head on her lap, and she would sort of clean her hair. My mother said, Granny, how come you always want me to do this, because you know you don't have dirty hair? Why are you making me do this? My mom wanted to go outside and play with the other children, but Granny always said to do this, so she did that. One day she asked Granny why she always had her do this, and Granny said because in our way we dream for you, we dream a long life for you, we give you gifts, spend time with us.

So one of the values the elders have passed on to us that these are the type of values and beliefs that we live. However, it seems that sometimes that we're so busy in our days that we forget to use elders like this in terms of important issues such as the caribou, climate change, the water. They give us very wonderful insights to our decisions, so I want to say that we recognize the elders and people that we use in our community, to treasure them and to pay respect to them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Respect For The Contributions Of Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 812

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the announcement in the budget address of $3 million to increase funding for water and sewer services was, I am sure, welcome news to NWT municipalities who are, like everyone else, struggling to keep up with the rising costs of labour, utilities and materials. Given the overall increase one would have expected that all municipalities could look forward to receiving at least, if not greater funding compared to the previous years.

Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, this is not the case for Hay River, which under the New Deal for community

governments will see its funding for water and sewer services cut by $200,000. This is a decrease of 36 percent.

MACA's new water/sewer subsidy formula takes into account municipalities' fixed and variable costs, as well as their ability to raise revenues. Unfortunately, it seems that MACA has taken a cookie cutter approach when it comes to calculating the variable costs.

As I reminded the Minister on Friday, the Town of Hay River is responsible for trucked water and sewer services all the way from the West Channel to Paradise Valley, which is a distance of almost 30 miles, and I'm not aware of any other NWT community that provides services over such a large area. It seems obvious to me that costs like fuel, vehicle maintenance and person hours are going to be much higher when the service is provided over a 30-mile distance versus a one to three-mile distance, which I think would probably be the case in most NWT communities.

I believe the GNWT has historically recognized the extra cost of providing services along the Hay River corridor and funded the town accordingly. I, therefore, have to take issue with the Minister's suggestion last Friday that Hay River has been over funded in past years. In response to my questions on Friday, the Minister indicated that he expects Hay River to take funds from capital or other O and M programs to cover its $200,000 shortfall for water/sewer services. What kind of solution is this, Mr. Speaker? Is this the kind of financial management advice that MACA is handing out? Capital funds are for capital. That is why we have a Water/Sewer Subsidy Program to fund water/sewer services.

If the formula isn't quite right, if MACA has overlooked the fact that Hay River provides trucked services over a 30-mile corridor, then the Minister, I would respectfully suggest, may want to fix the formula, not to tell the town to dip into other pots of money for intended other uses. Later today, Mr. Speaker, I'll have more questions for the Minister of MACA on the water/sewer subsidy for Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the information we have tells us clearly that the barren land caribou numbers are in significant decline. They're in decline, we think, for a number of reasons: the broader impact of climate change, global warming, resource development, roads everywhere that makes hunting easier, the hunting, predation, infestation by pests and all these factors have combined to lower the numbers. We know this because the government has taken the time to survey the Cape Bathurst, the Bluenose West, the Bluenose East and the Bathurst herds.

They did it twice to double check the numbers, and the numbers came back telling us there is a decline, a significant decline to the point that every co-management board, as well as the government, across the North came to consensus in Inuvik. It said these numbers mean we have to do something; we have to take steps to protect the caribou. This is, first and foremost, a wildlife preservation conservation issue. This is not an issue where the debate should focus on what's happening with the outfitters or should they be able to take another set of horns.

What we have to look at is a herd that has been roaming this land for thousands of years, lived off by the aboriginal people. The biggest herd of large mammals that are free-ranging in North America live up here.

We know that there are gaps. We know that the Beverly, Qamanirjuaq and the Ahiak have to be done. We know that the Porcupine has to be done. They know and they anticipate that their numbers are going to be down.

The folks from Quebec were as well at this conference in Inuvik. They are concerned that their herds are, as well, going to be showing the signs that we have already seen here.

The government committed to a number of very fundamental things in Inuvik. They committed to moving on protection of the calving grounds, removing of the satellite information, working with the co-management boards to look at how we can better monitor and regulate the harvest for all harvesters. Those are very serious steps that were only taken after months and months and months of consultation, and the success of the Inuvik summit was the fact that ENR and the government took the time to do the work...

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Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Miltenberger , your time for Member's statement has expired.

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Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I request unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, my suggestion is that this House, this side of the House should be showing support for the recommendations that the government has chosen to act on that have been supported by the 180 delegates at this summit, and we should be taking all the steps necessary to protect and preserve the herd not just for this generation, but we should be like the Iroquois and try to think seven generations out, because this is an issue that's going to be important for now and far until then. Thank you.

---Applause

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Protection And Preservation Of Caribou Herds

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 813

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will talk on something. This is regarding ambulance in Gameti. Last summer, Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger , toured the community and also the health care centre. We heard a lot of concern and issues from the chief and council pertaining to the service vehicle that is available to transport patients from the health centre to the airport. It's been eight months now

when I asked the Minister the question later on. This is the concern to all of us. (Translation ends)

Last summer we visited the community with then- Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger . At that time we toured the community and the health centre facility. We heard concerns and issues from the chief and council pertaining to the service vehicle that is available to transport patients from the health centre to the airport.

Mr. Speaker, I was appalled and, frankly, embarrassed when I saw and heard what the health centre was using to transport these patients. Mr. Speaker, those vehicles were at least 10 years old plus, those ambulance vehicles. My fear is that during an emergency in the community, while transporting patients this so-called ambulance will spit out smoke and croak before reaching its intended medevac.

---Laughter

While this might be amusing during some comedy at the movies, it would certainly be unfortunate for the patient whose emergency I'm sure will be very real, Mr. Speaker. I realize Gameti is a small, isolated community, but give me a break. This day and age we need to be fully equipped with up-to-date equipment and supplies when dealing with these people's lives, Mr. Speaker.

This is not acceptable today, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Health and Social Services, mainly the Department of Health, had over eight months to deal with this critical matter, Mr. Speaker. I'm certainly hoping that there's a plan in place to replace these older vehicles in the isolated communities more suitable on the ambulance service. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 814

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Unfair Treatment Of Barren-ground Caribou Outfitters

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 814

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the continuing debate on caribou in this Assembly, we're starting to get some answers but so far not a lot of accountability. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, in exchange between myself and the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources , we learned that a decision was undertaken, from my understanding, on an emergency basis to restrict the number of tags potentially available to outfitters as the Wekeezhii Resources Board was not able to, in the department's view, reply in time.

So this was fine. There was an emergency provision and the Minister chose to act on it. However, Mr. Speaker, I'm really curious as to just where the emergency was on this one. If we're talking about the difference from what was originally on the commitment to make some 1,200 tags available and we're now down to 700, a difference of 500 tags out of the one herd that was counted which is about 120,000 animals. Mr. Speaker, where was the emergency, especially when no other identified harvester group had its targets or quotas changed at this time? It does not constitute, Mr.

Speaker, what I would say is bold and decisive action. As a matter of fact, I see it as unfair, lopsided action and a betrayal toward these people for the investment and the trust that they have made in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the role of the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment has also yet to be explored. There are 20 years of public investment and promotion behind the sports hunting industry. Yet, based on a lot of what really is perceived as incomplete information, does this really warrant the elimination of the industry, which is what is before us with the recommendations that this government has made, Mr. Speaker?

---Applause

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Unfair Treatment Of Barren-ground Caribou Outfitters

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 814

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 814

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before I make my Member's statement, I'd like to thank the Honourable Floyd Roland , Michael Miltenberger , MLA from Thebacha, and Commissioner Tony Whitford and Terry Testart for coming with me to the memorial service for Vince Steen yesterday. I appreciate that and I appreciate Caucus.

Mr. Speaker, last week and over a number of days we've been hearing about the caribou numbers, the decline of the caribou numbers. I truly believe and I think ENR is doing their best in regard to trying to keep the numbers in line in regard to subsistence on sports hunting. I appreciate, also, the Minister conducting a Caribou Summit meeting, which was held January 23rd to 26th in Inuvik. We had a lot of people from all over the Territories come to the summit there and I appreciate the input that they have.

Especially it was good to hear the elders when they talk about how they survived years ago with regard to subsistence hunting and everything. It's proved that they did survive for subsistence that they needed.

Unfortunately, over the last few years, you know, I can't blame it really on sports hunting, but again that's another area that has to be looked at. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Speaker, I think subsistence, or sports hunting, is a privilege. I think it's important that we do try to work with the sports hunters, but again, I think maintaining the numbers in caribou is important for all the people in the Northwest Territories.

I respect all the elders, and one of the important things we should remember is that there was a youth delegate at this conference who was very disappointed that there weren't that many youth involved and they would like to see their involvement also.

Mr. Speaker, I think for the Inuvialuit it's a situation where we have strived to make ourselves better. I also would like to say that under the co-management boards, they did talk about the numbers when they first come out and I think they're addressing the problem at this present time. I will have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to say a well respected elder once said, someone once asked me why don't you put your money, save your money and put your money in the bank? I should have told him at that time the land is my bank and that's what you should strive for, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Members' statement. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I'd like to speak on what we can do with our share of the revenue from our resources.

---Interjection

---Applause

We speak all the time and we come out with these reports on corridors Canada, connect NWT. These are nice fancy reports. Why do we need these to tell us what we already know? We do know, Mr. Speaker, that we need a highway down the Mackenzie Valley. It's a given, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

This highway would benefit, in my opinion, all of the Northwest Territories. You look up in the Beaufort-Delta, we have more in common with Whitehorse. We spend a lot of our hard earned money in Whitehorse because we're connected to Whitehorse. If we had that highway down the valley, Yellowknife, the communities along the way would benefit from all the money in the Beaufort-Delta. Believe me, when the pipeline goes ahead, there will be a lot of money to spend, and we'd rather spend it in the Northwest Territories than have to go spend it in the Yukon.

The people of the Northwest Territories would benefit too because it would bring the prices down. If you can truck everything into the communities, and I'm talking down the valley, we'll run into the Tlicho, run a highway into there, we have the funds. We have the resources. We can ask Ottawa to borrow $700 million of our own money to build our highways. They'd get that paid back. The gas starts flowing, Mr. Speaker, then the royalties will double, maybe even triple. So we have a lot of resources at our disposal and we have to start using those resources to do what will benefit people up and down the valley.

I believe, Mr. Speaker, that Mackenzie Valley highway is something that's possible and it's something that we should do, something that we should seriously look at. If we have to borrow, like I said, $700 million of our own money from Ottawa to build it, then we have to do that. I'll have questions for the Minister of Transportation at the appropriate time. Thank you.

---Applause

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Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to talk about the energy plan and Greenhouse Gas Strategy today. We have a collection of initiatives from the government and they're all admirable in their own way. Increased funding to the Arctic Energy Alliance, which was a complete 180 from a few years ago, Mr. Speaker, ECE talked about climate change curriculum, DOT is also doing some testing and training, but what is the plan? What do these initiatives add up to and what is the intention of this government? Are we serious about cutting back on emissions? If so, what are our targets? How are we going to get there?

Will we enforce our penalties with people and companies who don't reduce their emissions? What will the effect on the economy be as a result, Mr. Speaker?

We all know about the poll from the Globe and Mail that found support for tough action against global warming. Fifty-six percent even said that they would support rationing the amount of fossil fuels an individual uses each year. I've been asking for a plan since oil prices started to climb over two years ago, Mr. Speaker. The time for this government to be proactive is certainly running out. We know the Arctic will suffer from climate change. We know the infrastructure where we drive, where we live, where we work, are all going to suffer enormous damage as the permafrost continues to melt and, as we know, energy prices continue to climb higher and higher.

We need an action plan with targets and, yes, we need consequences, Mr. Speaker. We need to have a serious discussion about what life is going to look like in the Northwest Territories in the next few years and what legacy we are going to leave. If the importance of climate change is not recognized today and we do nothing, there will be grave circumstances. If we work to mitigate these effects and it turns out that climate change is only a trend, our biggest burden, Mr. Speaker, will be a cleaner and healthier environment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to speak on the caribou issue today. Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that I don't believe that the Department of ENR have an agenda to attack or destroy the barren-ground caribou outfitters industry. In fact, I know that it has been an important partner and a supporter of this industry from the beginning. I don't believe that this is a Yellowknife versus outside issue, because we know that the caribou is an NWT issue.

When I had a constituency meeting last week, I had about three people show up and one of them, a non-aboriginal suburban, long-term Yellowknifer had a lot to say about how we could manage this issue. Mr. Speaker. While some of us may like to wait until every last caribou is counted, I think everyone who is familiar with what's going on in the land knows that there's something seriously desperate happening with the caribou. There's such a thing as a smell test. It's like climate change. A lot of people know when there's something going on and we need to act on it.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the fact that ENR's job is to protect the environment and natural resources, as the name says. This goes to the essence of why ITI and ENR were split, because it's ITI's job now to speak and support the industry, and to date I have seen no evidence that

they have done anywhere near enough in terms of foreseeing the impact of the cuts to the industry and in advocating and advancing some of the concerns that the industry has. Mr. Speaker, I understand the government's job is to protect, I mean, ENR's job is to protect wildlife and other natural resources, but there is a good way to do it and a poor way to do it and so far I see no concrete action from ITI.

Mr. Speaker, I do also appreciate the need for the ENR Minister to impose the reduced quota. But I believe the government, especially ITI, has the responsibility to do what it can to try and save the industry, even in a very reduced way. Many in this industry, Mr. Speaker, are wildlife conservationists and they want to protect the caribou very much, as well as preserving some of the industry. They are willing and able to work with the Minister to work toward that. Mr. Speaker, many of them, over the years, have voluntarily cut the tags they use and even implemented one-tag policy. Because ENR was unable to clamp down on operators that have been operating much more differently...

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Ms. Lee , your time for Member's statement has expired.

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Ms. Lee .

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Because, for whatever reason, ENR was unable to clamp down on operators that have been operating much more differently, now every operator is being painted with the same brush.

Mr. Speaker, as we move forward on this issue, I believe the government will need to look at all manners of harvesting because, in the long run, it has to do a comprehensive action plan that will save the caribou herd. But in doing so, I would like to ask the government and the Wekeezhii board and all the aboriginal leaders to be open minded and find a way to save the very small-scale mom-and-pop outfitter operators who are contributing greatly in creating valuable jobs, especially for aboriginal people, and showing the world the beauty of all that we have to offer in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Caribou Management Decisions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 816

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Sandra Beaton in the gallery. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 816

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 816

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to be able to introduce my constituency assistant, a long-time Fort Smith resident, successful businesswoman, Denise Yuhas.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 816

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. I'd like to welcome everyone in the gallery today to observe the proceedings. It's always nice to have an audience in here. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 816

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's been very interesting listening to some of my colleagues speak about caribou and the importance of this great resource in our territory. No one can deny that we have to work with the co-management boards; we have to protect the calving grounds. We also have to take every step necessary to protect the caribou. Those aren't my issues.

My issue, Mr. Speaker, to be blunt, is how can we, as a government, make decisions that are going to put a nail in the coffin of a multi-million-dollar industry without knowing the numbers of all the herds that live in the Northwest Territories? That is the fundamental question, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to ask the Minister of ENR , when was ENR going to inform Regular Members of this House about the proposal that went to the Wekweezhii Renewable Resources Board? When was that going to happen? We found out by chance two weeks after we had a meeting with ENR about this. When was the Minister and the department going to let us know? Mahsi.

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Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 816

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. McLeod.

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Return To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 816

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a process that we have to follow when we determine what the allocations for quotas are going to be. The Minister-of-the-day had indicated to this House very clearly that there was a concern regarding caribou numbers February of last year and was indicated at that time that we'd have to do some reductions. We communicated this information on a number of occasions throughout the year to the caribou outfitters, and we also conducted another survey because the numbers at that time were contested. We brought those numbers forward, analyzed them, and brought it to Cabinet.

During that process, we also indicated to the Members of this House, during the committee process, that there was a concern. We didn't have an actual allocation and quota set up then, but we didn't have the opportunity to present it to Cabinet at that point. So we would have provided that information. I'm not sure if we would have gone out specifically to send it to each individual Member, but it was something that we had to do on a sense of urgency basis, so that's the process we followed, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to say there is a big difference between letting us know there is trouble with the numbers and a 70 percent reduction that was in the proposal that went forward to the Wekeezhii. There is a big difference there. I want to state that. I want to ask the Minister of ENR if he can walk me, and this House, through the process that was followed in developing the number of 350 tags, a 70 percent reduction. What was the consultation and the process that took place with the sister department of ITI, the responsible department for industry?

Where was the communication there? When were they made aware of the fact that that proposal was going forward to the Wekeezhii Renewable Resources Board? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we compiled all of the information as quickly as time would allow. Our surveys were done late in the fall and over the fall season. We compiled that information, had our chance to look at it and digest it, and our recommendation was based on the percentage of what the herd can sustain. We have, of course, always taken the position when we have that kind of a crash in numbers, that there is really no sustainable yield. As to the question about when we conveyed that to ITI, I think we did it in the month of November. They had a chance to look at it.

Of course, there were concerns raised by ITI because it does affect a number of businesses in that field. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is nice that the Minister and ENR advised ITI in November, but they didn't advise us. Like I said, we found out after the fact some time the third week of December when we did have meetings with ENR in the first week of December. There was no mention of a drastic reduction of tag allocation at that time. I think this is a very important question, Mr. Speaker. The harvest of the Bathurst herd in the North Slave region, according to ENR's own numbers, the 5,800 animals that were harvested in the North Slave region were all attributed to one herd. How could that be possible? I think that is an important question to ask the Minister as well. Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our surveys were conducted over the last while for a number of herds that are in the Northwest Territories. There is still some work we have to do yet. We have to do the Beverly herd. We are planning to do that next year. Mr. Speaker, this herd, the Bathurst herd, was surveyed I think in 2003. When we did it again in 2006, we saw a crash of about 50,000 to 60,000 animals. Now, that is a very great concern to us. We recognize that there is some mingling of the herds. The Bluenose herd sometimes during the winter season will mingle and mix with the Bathurst herd.

However, I should point out to the Member that there is absolutely no outfitting permitted through the recommendations from the Sahtu Co-management Board that is allowed through the Bluenose herd. So that is something that we need to take a look at also, but our numbers indicated that this herd was crashing. We looked at what would be a sustainable yield to allow a small operation or several small operations to succeed or survive, and set our quota accordingly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Question 298-15(5): Caribou Sport Hunting Tag Reductions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my questions today to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . Mr. Speaker, would the Minister direct his department to revisit Hay River's water and sewer subsidy this time taking into account the distance over which the town provides services and the costs associated with that distance? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 817

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we would certainly permit our staff to sit down with the Town of Hay River and provide some models of how they can recalculate their numbers and look at some of the items that are still in the Water and Sewer Subsidy Program budget that should be backed out because of the capital. We have a number of other communities that have to haul water long distances. Fort McPherson, for example, hauls their water 23 kilometres on a daily basis. It is also a challenge for them.

Mr. Speaker, we did take some consideration as to the uniqueness factor when we set up our budgets. It is internal what it costs for fuel in terms of those types of flexible or variable costs for each community, but as to sit down and put all of the numbers back into place that are reduced or increased, that would mean we would go back to our old formula and throw this one out the window.

Mr. Speaker, this one is a new formula that is fair and reflects the actual costs of what each community will sustain. There is a fixed component of actual infrastructure and equipment that is in the community. There is a variable component that is also the calculation of what that community is able to raise in revenue. Mr. Speaker, we think it is fair.

In the case of Hay River, there was an additional pot of money that was in place, but it was built in or supplied

over and above the Water and Sewer Subsidy Program. It was put in place some time ago, and it does not reflect fairness across the board. It is one community that is getting more than what everybody else is getting. We can't qualify that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister stated last Friday that he was "not sure how and why there was more money being provided over and above the Water and Sewer Subsidy Program." That is from page 1689 of unedited Hansard. How can the Minister know that the so-called extra over and above $200,000 provided to Hay River in previous years was not justified if he doesn't know how or why it got there in the first place? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these dollars were provided over and above the Water and Sewer Subsidy Program. The amount that Hay River was getting for the Water and Sewer Subsidy Program was $316,000, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Hay River, it has been indicated by the Minister, was getting more than they should have had in the past. If he needed a reason why we were getting more, perhaps it would lend to justifying reinstating that. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister agree to reinstate the $200,000 he has cut from Hay River's water and sewer subsidy unless and until he can tell us what has changed to make that $200,000 no longer justifiable and he can demonstrate that the cost of servicing a 30-mile corridor have been factored into the formula? To summarize, a reinstatement until we can absolutely determine how and why that was justified in the beginning. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am sure if we reinstated the extra money for Hay River, we would have every Member of this House standing up for an extra $200,000, and our budget just won't allow that. Mr. Speaker, this allocation for each community was based on the assets in the community and what it costs to produce water and what the variable costs in terms of power, fuel and those types of things added and also factored in is the ability for those communities to raise revenue. I think it is fair system. Everybody has the same system in place. There is no mechanism now for some communities to get more.

Some communities that were provided no assistance are now getting assistance, so it is really a change. The old formula was set up so there were a number of things calculated, everything in the book: how long it took for a truck to fill up a tank, how many tanks and what sizes were the tanks in the community, what size the drivers were, how much fuel do you use, how often the trucks were replaced. It became a system that we couldn't calculate. We didn't know if it was fair. Some communities were asking us to change it. Other communities were saying they were being cheated. So this is a new system.

People can understand it. It is fair across the board, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Question 299-15(5): Water And Sewer Services Funding

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the construction of a highway down the Mackenzie Valley would benefit everyone. It would benefit all those living down the valley. It would benefit contractors. The contractors in the Northwest Territories have the capacity to build a highway like this. It would have them all work. I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation if the department keeps an open file on the cost of a Mackenzie Valley highway. Thank you.

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Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. Menicoche .

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Return To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Mackenzie Valley highway is part of our Highway Strategy of the Northwest Territories. We did submit a proposal to the federal government. It is called, Connecting Canada: Coast to Coast to Coast. In 2006, I believe it was, in the spring, it was estimated at $700 million at that time. Over the years, we have consistently approached the federal government time and time again providing them proposals of our strategy.

In fact, it was August of last year the Premier had the support of all the Premiers across Canada to include new northern roads as part of the National Transportation Strategy and continue to press the matter. Even with that support, the federal government refused to give us any new dollars for new road construction of which they are responsible, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

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Return To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. One of the main users of the highway, if it is built, would be industry, the oil and gas industry, the diamond industry. Has industry ever been approached about contributing to a highway system? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 818

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Menicoche .

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Further Return To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Industry has been approached, particularly in the Sahtu experiences that we don't really call them like tolls but they know the conditions of winter roads and they gladly agreed to contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of those roads. But we have had discussions in the past with industry, particularly with the Mackenzie Valley all-weather roads and the Connecting Canada: Coast to Coast to Coast makes reference to a toll system to help contribute or build the new Mackenzie Valley highway. Mahsi.

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Further Return To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the Minister said that it was the federal government's responsibility. We are not getting the answers that we should be getting from the federal government. We should be putting more pressure on them. Will the Minister commit his department to submitting to the Regular Members' cost for the highway? Has a route been chosen? Would the Minister commit his department into providing us with that information so we can see some planning starting today, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Menicoche .

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Further Return To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can commit to get as much detail as the Member requests, because we do have a Mackenzie Valley corridor study that was done. Of course, there would the final document, but there is a corridor that was selected and picked out. I can share that with the Member once I get it, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Question 300-15(5): Construction Of Mackenzie Valley Highway

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I spoke earlier about the need for ambulance service vehicles in Gameti, the one we have is very outdated. In the community, there is a need for up-to-date emergency vehicle in the community. I would like to ask the Minister of Health what criteria or standards does the Department of Health have in place for the safe operation condition of emergency service vehicles? Mahsi.

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Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of ground ambulance services in our communities is something that has come up on a number of occasions in this Assembly. In fact, we have, along with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, been working on how we can improve the services more consistently across our communities. Right now, we have a number of different avenues of trying to address that issue. In some communities in our health centres, they do have vehicles that can be used for ambulances.

In other communities, we have contracts in place with either the aboriginal government, the community, band, or a development corporation to supply a vehicle on an as-needed basis or in communities, for example, here in Yellowknife or a number of other communities through their municipalities. So we have a number of areas we work with communities on. The actual criteria, I will have to get that information for the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in isolated communities, dealing with the lives in our hands, escorting patients to the airstrip and transporting patients in an older vehicle does not make sense. There is a real essential need for updated vehicles in the community. I understand where the department may be working with the local community government whether it be a contract issue, but at the same time, those vehicles are always busy as well. If there is an emergency, then there will be a crisis in the community. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, given the outdated ambulance service vehicle in Gameti -- the vehicle that I am specifically talking about is 10-plus years old, what is the department's plan with respect to replacing this vehicle with a new standard to date? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct; in Gameti, the vehicle there is an older one. It does belong to the Tlicho Nation in Gameti. That is who we have our contract with or it is on a case-by-case basis that we use that vehicle. We are sitting down to formally go over the contract. At that time, we can stipulate the type of vehicle we would like and, in fact, when an emergency is in place, request that we get first use of that. That is part of the language that can go into a contract. So we will look at that area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 819

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for his remarks on the ongoing discussion with the Tlicho Nation, especially specifically with the Gameti Community Government on the contract discussion. I would like to share from the Minister, when can we expect to see some changes in the community of Gameti with respect to the contract that he has outlined? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have an actual timeline, but I will get a hold of the department and get that information and provide it to the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Question 301-15(5): Ambulance Service In Gameti

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Oral questions. The honourable Member for the Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice , the Honourable Brendan Bell . I would like to ask the Minister as he is aware that the pilot project has been initiated by his department with the Monfwi and the Sahtu region in terms of justices on the land and the land wilderness program. I want to ask the Minister if he will update the people in the Sahtu and the Northwest Territories as to this wilderness camp program that is used by an elder that has spoken about in my Member's statement about the respect for elders and the use for them in our today's society. Thank you.

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Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister responsible for Justice , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can advise the House and the Member that the project is going forward and is under way now as we speak, I understand. It took us some time this season to get this off the ground. We had a very successful response last year. It worked very well. The inmates were involved and I think highly valued the experience. So we had some great feedback. I very much want to conduct it again this year. We had some difficulty finding prospective clients, Mr. Speaker, but we have been able to do that now, I understand, and are moving forward. Thank you.

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Return To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the elders have given us some direction in terms of how to correct things in our life, and by taking us out on the land is one powerful way the teachers have given us. We should try to use this type of philosophy and belief into today's society such as the institution of corrections. I will ask the Minister in terms of how much flexibility can he give in terms of encouraging the inmates who are in these institutions to take advantage of going on the land? I know sometimes policy prevents us. Regulations bar us from going into these types of healing programs.

Can the Minister meet with the community, meet with his officials to say let's make this the goal. It is, again, strong, forward thinking and good leadership on behalf of his department to make it happen in the views of the aboriginal people. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to let the Member know, and Members of the House know, that philosophically we absolutely agree that where we can, it makes a lot of sense to have inmates on the land healing, Mr. Speaker, at times making amends to the community that they may have wronged. I think that's an important part of reintegration eventually into the community, so this is very important.

We do have to be flexible, but we have to recognize that there are a couple of criteria that are important: The inmates in the institution have to want to and be prepared to go out on the land; and, two, they have to be a suitable security risk both to themselves and to the camp operators. When those criteria, Mr. Speaker, are met, I think it's in all of our interests to do what we can to get these people out on the land.

It has been a very good program. It is one that we want to replicate in other regions. We are working very closely in the Tlicho region to try to do similar. I think it will be well received there, as well, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I certainly have given my support to the Minister in terms of his initiative and getting his department to undertake this huge, historical groundbreaking initiative such as putting inmates on the land. However, I would like to ask the Minister again to look at the program in terms of the aftercare programs. Inmates who are in these institutions, a lot of them have contributed to the alcohol abuse. It has contributed to their crimes and that's why they're in the institutions. I'd like to ask the Minister if he would support a strong aftercare program, wilderness program.

I think inmates do want to go providing that there is opportunity for them to attend. So again I would like to ask the Minister that question. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we can do that. I think that what we can do more of is having information sessions, Mr. Speaker, with inmates who are in our institutions to help them understand what kind of programming would be available to them on the land. I think it's very important. Again, as I indicated, inmates have to want to go, but I do think that many of them would want to go if they fully understand what is offered and what is available. There are, obviously, some expectations of these inmates and it is a commitment and it can be gruelling.

It can be difficult to sit down and come to grips with many of these issues that have been suppressed for some time, but there's a lot of value in doing it. I think, Mr. Speaker, we should and I certainly will commit to making sure we sit down with inmates in the institutions and brief them exactly on what is available. I hope to be able to do this across the entire territory as we have more of these available in other regions. I think we need to build on this success. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Question 302-15(5): On-the-land Rehabilitation Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question this morning will be for Mr. Bell , as the Minister for Industry, Tourism and Investment, and the department responsible for licensing tourism operations of all kinds across the NWT; as well, the agency responsible for assisting, developing and promoting our tourism industry and, of course, that includes the sports hunting industry in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, we have been looking at the issues regarding the decisions that our governments and our regulators make, the decisions that we make based on the information that we get. As a very brief illustration of some of the frustrations that outfitters have been facing, Mr. Speaker, I present a bit of information about tags that have been allotted to an outfitter. This particular outfitter has two licences. In June of this year, Mr. Speaker, he was told he had 264 tags to sell. In December, that went down to 70. On January 8th, it was 205. On January 20th, it was 150. On January 29th, it was 166, Mr. Speaker.

How the heck do you run a business when the government is playing such up and down, back and forth numbers with your resource?

Mr. Speaker, when did the Minister of ITI learn that his counterparts in Environment and Natural Resources were recommending, in effect, the elimination of the industry when they told the Wekeezhii board on December 15th that the caribou tags should be reduced to 350, Mr. Speaker?

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Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to make sure that Members of the House know that, as Minister McLeod has indicated, ITI was aware the survey results had come in and that the numbers were much lower, I think, than anticipated. In late November, we were advised that the survey numbers had come back and, as Minister McLeod has indicated, throughout December we had a policy debate going on between these two departments, and you can see that we had concerns around how this would impact the outfitting industry. There was a disagreement as to the best course of action to proceed on, on a go-forward basis. Mr.

Speaker, I think that policy debate is healthy. I think you can see from the division of the departments that this policy debate eventually took place at the Cabinet level. You know that the Premier called a meeting of the two departments to discuss the best way forward and what we've arrived at is a solution that we think strikes the balance between the need for conservation. Clearly, the herd is under pressure, the herds are under pressure, we recognize that; but we had concerns about the outfitting industry.

We felt that the proposal of 350 tags would, in effect, be fatal for the industry this year and we're advocating that more time was necessary for the industry and that we'd build a plan for 2008. Obviously, that's what the Minister of ENR has done in asking the Wekeezhii board to come back with recommendations.

Mr. Speaker, there certainly was a coming together of the two departments to debate the best course of action going forward. What we have now is a plan that, I think, although it's not everything the outfitters had desired and wanted, we think allows...builds a bit of a reprieve for the industry while we build a plan for the long term. Thank you.

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Return To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the recommendation is still before the Wekeezhii Renewable Resources Board that the total number of tags available to the outfitting industry is 350. Clearly, the industry is not sustainable at this level. Is the Minister of ITI going to continue to work for these people in the tourism industry to not only prepare something that will get them through this difficult period, but will have a sustainable caribou industry, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I think all of us want to ensure that we have a sustainable industry, an outfitting industry as we move forward. The most critical component of that is sustainable caribou herds. Mr. Speaker, we have been working with the Barren-Ground Caribou Outfitters Association. In fact, I met with them prior to the Caribou Summit and indicated that I was prepared to help them develop a plan, an approach and a presentation for the Wekeezhii board, because that's a critical step here.

The Wekeezhii board and their public hearing is going to make recommendations that will undoubtedly have a huge impact on the numbers that are eventually allocated to outfitters. It's critical that they come forward with a plan that demonstrates that they believe in conservation and demonstrates that this industry can live side by side a viable caribou herd in the Northwest Territories. We are helping them build that presentation and that plan.

We've also indicated to them as step two we would work with them to talk about assistance and aid for the industry, much the same way we did with the Aurora industry when it was under pressure, Mr. Speaker, we are doing the same with the outfitting industry. Exactly what form that aid will take depends very much on what Wekeezhii board comes back with and the recommendations that they make in terms of sustainable harvest numbers for caribou for 2008. At that point, we'll sit down to talk in detail about what the plan will look like. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Bill Braden

Great Slave

You know, Mr. Speaker, we have to look at this in many different ways. The sustainability of the herds, of course, if paramount. However, I'm looking at management decisions that affect people who have made lifelong investments in the NWT. Mr. Speaker, there's a lot of reliance being placed by the Minister on the case

that the outfitters will have to make before the Wekeezhii board. ENR has already put a recommendation in front of the board, made a strategic recommendation. In fact, Mr. Speaker, ENR has two voting seats on the Wekeezhii Resources Board. Where is the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment going to be to represent the interests of outfitters and businesses who have made investments based on 20 years of support, regulation and policy that this government has put forward and helped them build their case? Are we going to go to bat for these businesses, for these residents, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated, we are working very closely and supporting the Barren-Ground Caribou Outfitters Association. I will admit that not every single outfitter has agreed to remain a member of that industry association; there are some divergent views. However, the majority of outfitters are still members of that group and we are very much helping them build their case to take before the Wekeezhii board, because, as we've said and we all acknowledge, what Wekeezhii determines will be critical in terms of what ENR eventually decides.

It is the ENR Minister who has the legislative mandate to determine tag allocations. So we will be working with the outfitters to put this plan forward and make sure that their interests are advocated. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Question 303-15(5): Caribou Management Decisions

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today in my Members' statement I talked about my concerns about lack of energy plan, Greenhouse Gas Strategy, and my concerns that we've had the lack of identification of our targets and strategy, Mr. Speaker. My first question would be to the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment . My question is, has there been any evaluation on the government's energy initiatives in terms of cost saving or energy reduction and usefulness and, if not, will he agree to take on this task to do those evaluations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I can tell Members that we are very much doing that evaluation and we are bringing forward an energy plan that moves together with the companion, the Greenhouse Gas Strategy. The two documents, I think, very much need to be read together and we are looking forward to coming forward in March and having the discussion with Members about the approach. There will be specifics, there will be budget items, there will be projects that are targeted. I think the Members will be very pleased and happy with the work that's been done on the energy plan and I look forward to a very crucial discussion, as well, with the Minister of ENR and myself coming forward to committee to discuss that.

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Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear that the department is working on a Greenhouse Gas Strategy, but, Mr. Speaker, a lot of this problem requires leadership through its actions. Mr. Speaker, if you don't have actions and you don't identify targets and tools, then what's the point? I want to hear this Minister tell me today that have we identified targets, clear targets, from the GNWT point of view and have we identified compliance tools so we can meet targets with this strategy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly we don't want to scoop ourselves here and we have yet to get final approval for this plan before Cabinet. We intend to do that. However, I can tell Members that, yes, there are internal GNWT targets proposed in the strategy and we're hoping that that will meet with the support of Members. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister speak to the issue of this energy plan where we're going to address rising costs associated with climate change and emission reductions and has the ministry changed their plan or target setting with the announcement of the ecoTrust by Prime Minister Harper this week? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Question 304-15(5): Action Plan To Address Climate Change

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We're very encouraged to see the announcement of the ecoTrust. Although we don't have the details yet to understand exactly what the programs will look like and what the criteria will be for accessing those funds, I can tell you that internally we're having discussions about how we approach the federal government, Ministers Lunn and Baird, to make sure that we see some projects that are funded through this initiative.

Yes, there are going to be rising costs. One of the issues that is paramount in this discussion -- and Members will know from the consultation documents -- was the affordability of the options that we're proposing to NWT residents. It's critical that we get a handle on that. I think an energy strategy that didn'