Debates of June 11th, 2008

This is page numbers 1115 to 1178 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Point of Order

Minister’s Statement 63-16(2) Recognition Of John B. Zoe

Minister’s Statement 64-16(2) Northern Women In Mining, Oil And Gas

Mandatory Leave Without Pay Concerns For Affected Employees

Exploration Permits In The Beaufort Sea

Location Of The Aurora Research Institute

Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Hydroelectric Development In The Northwest Territories

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Question 315-16(2) Location Of The Aurora Research Institute

Question 316-16(2) Integrating Residential School Information Into NWT Curriculum

Question 317-16(2) Vacation Travel Allowance To Improve Public Service Morale

Question 318-16(2) Dental Surgery Availability For Children

Question 319-16(2) Tsiigehtchic Ferry Service

Question 320-16(2) Taltson Expansion Hydro Project

Bill 11

An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Main Estimates 2008–2009 NWT Housing Corporation

Main Estimates 2008–2009 Department Of Environment And Natural Resources

Committee Motion 46-16(2) To Reinstate $50,000 For Proposed Relocation Of Inuvik Area Office (Committee Motion Carried)

Committee Motion 47-16(2) To Reinstate $108,000 For Renewable Resource Officer Positions And Bear Fencing Program (Committee Motion Carried)

Committee Motion 48-16(2) To Defer Consideration Of Operations Expenditures (Committee Motion Carried)

Main Estimates 2008–2009 Department Of Municipal And Community Affairs

Report of the Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

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Prayer.

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of order under Rules 23 (h), (i), (

k) and (m). I’ve waited until today to raise this point of order, because I wanted to review the unedited Hansard.

Mr.

Speaker, yesterday during debate on

Committee Motion 45-16(2), Mr. Abernethy said, and I quote from page 106 of unedited Hansard for Tuesday, June 10, 2008: “I clearly understand why the Member for Deh Cho is upset. We are knocking off $300,000 for the 60th parallel visitors’ park.”

Mr. Abernethy ’s comments alleged that I was upset. I’m not sure how this was determined, since I did not speak to the motion. His comments also impute that I was defending government projects in my own constituency, which I did not.

Mr. Speaker, I consider Mr. Abernethy ’s remarks to be disrespectful to me, my constituents and to the concept of consensus government. These comments and remarks do little more than create disorder in the House. It is my exclusive right and privilege to state my opinions and beliefs in this Assembly, and I am very concerned that Mr. Abernethy may have infringed on this right by suggesting that I put my position on the motion under debate.

In this regard I believe Mr. Abernethy ’s comments offended the practices and precedents of this Assembly.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. McLeod has risen on a point of order. I am going to allow some debate on the point of order. To the point of

order, the honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Sahtu

Norman Yakeleya

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, I, too, rise on a point of order under Rule 23(h)….

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

We have a point of order on the floor. I will deal with that point of order. If you want to speak to the point of order, you may. To the point of order, the honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. In

response to the point of order, yesterday when the debate was going on we were all talking about the projects that were going on. There was a lot of reference to the different projects that were out there and a lot of reference to the projects that were in question — the ones that were being eliminated as a result of the $1.5 million cut. Clearly, the Deh Cho project was one of them. I felt, you know, that I’d have been upset if a project was getting eliminated from my riding. It’s a fact. We know that exists. We know there would have been $300,000 spent in the Minister’s riding, so I made reference to it.

It’s a fact; it exists. I didn’t think that I was, as the Member said yesterday, impugning his motives. I wasn’t suggesting in any way, shape or form that the Minister had any motive in this thing, simply that having a project eliminated from his riding may be upsetting.

That’s it for now. I’ll save the rest for the next two.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was here in the Chamber when the words were said. I’m going to speak to it in this regard. First, I want to stress — and I think it’s important to highlight — that Mr. McLeod’s riding and how he makes his opinions are his responsibility and his responsibility alone. Therefore, it should not be assumed as to how Members, whether they be Cabinet or Regular Members, assume that opinion.

Mr. Speaker, it’s my opinion that the Member for Great Slave was not shooting with ill intent,

although his words may have suggested there could have been an assumption there. I think the spirit and the intent was strictly based on the fact that something was being deleted, and of course, the Member may feel that is a concern.

My observation of this whole issue at large is that it was an assumption, but I don’t think it was meant in any regard of any negative perspective. I don’t think there’s a point of order here, but I’d certainly like to offer the opportunity for us to retract those words and maybe move forward. I don’t think this is a necessary process. Sometimes things get frustrated and words get put into people’s mouths, as well as intents.

Closing this point out, Mr. Speaker, the issue I think that really arose here is the fact that there was an assumption made. I don’t think the spirit and the intent was mean or with malice or any other type in any way.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was in the Chamber. I heard the comments that were made by Mr.

Abernethy. I concur that

Mr.

McLeod had not spoken to the motion. I

perceived Mr. Abernethy ’s comments to be merely stating the obvious: that there was a motion before us to delete certain capital projects from ridings that were Ministers’ ridings. That’s what my

interpretation was when I heard the words — that Mr. Abernethy was in fact stating the obvious.

As to whether Mr. McLeod was upset by that, I think it would be safe to assume that any Member around this Chamber would not be happy to have a motion come forward to delete something from their riding. I don’t think it’s an outrageous assumption on Mr. Abernethy ’s part. Again, I state that to me it sounded like he was stating the obvious about some of the components of that $1.5 million that were proposed to be deleted.

Mr. Speaker, when you are considering your ruling, which will be yours and yours alone…. I think that we have embarked on a new thing in this Chamber of Members, actually, from the other side defending their ridings, defending capital projects in their ridings, and I think that introduces a new kind of tone to the debate on motions like this. I would appreciate it if that was something you took into consideration as well.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I

appreciate this opportunity to comment here. I think

it’s very important. Although I can understand the point of order that’s been raised here, I think it’s very important in considering it to take into consideration the context in which the comments were made, and I’d like to just make a comment on that.

My perception of the Member’s statement is that it was meant to be vicarious and consoling. If you look at the paragraph preceding the remark, for example, the statement was made that we will be still spending $2.3 million — in other words, this is not a total cut here — and it was followed by the suggestion that this may be a temporary cut, that we can reinstate these at a later date, which may not be very much later.

I just wanted to make the comment that, taken in context and perhaps considering a lack of experience in what’s totally appropriate protocol, the Member’s statements were really meant to be more vicarious and consoling than accusatory.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. I was going to rise on my own point of order, but I will instead speak to this particular point of order put forward by my colleague.

Personally, I want to state that the Member did not speak to defend; he did not speak to argue the case. He was silent, as was my colleague Mr. Yakeleya . There were three of us named, and things were attributed to us.

Within the context of the debate and the debate that’s been going on in this House, in my opinion, there was an imputation, first, that Ministers have been favouring themselves in terms of how projects are being distributed, and then now we’re doubly upset because the decision has been made to delete some of them. I don’t think that’s a fair characterization. I think it’s contrary to the rules.

I agree with my colleague. He did not say a word, nor did Mr. Yakeleya , and the Member opposite took it upon himself to define what they were feeling and attribute motive to them that was in no way verbalized in this House. I think it’s beyond what is acceptable in terms of the rules of debate before this House.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much,

Mr. Speaker. I, too, was in the House when the exchange occurred. As well, to this point of order, out of interest I read the unedited Hansard. The way it reads to me is that there was no intent here

other than to state the obvious fact, which a Member did.

You have to remember that there was very spirited discussion occurring at that moment as well. We’re right in the heat of debating a very, very important motion. It was really important to the Cabinet side, and they were defending it. Many of their Members did speak. The two who were mentioned by Mr. Abernethy didn’t speak, but there were others who spoke. There was lots of spirited engagement in the debate. Mr. Abernethy , I believe, just pointed out a few facts from the motion that was being debated in front of us. Mashi cho.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Sahtu

Norman Yakeleya

Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, rise in defence of the point of order from my honourable colleague. We have — I along with Mr. Miltenberger , the MLA for Thebacha — pointed out, in terms of this debate here, in terms of Mr. Abernethy ’s comments to me, that I never spoke on the motion in the Hansard. I was quite concerned in terms of Mr. Abernethy having the understanding about why I was upset. There are reasons I could be looking upset over here. I’m not too sure how he came to that conclusion.

There are many things going on in our lives and many things happening in this Assembly that would cause me to make some judgments. That is quite worrisome to me as to how I choose to be portrayed on this side in terms of our discussions in this House. It really does cause me some concerns in terms of the style of government we have here in terms of the issues Mr. McLeod talked about. To say that I’m upset, too, because we knocked $100,000 off the CANOL Trail really does concern me a lot in terms of this point of order and in terms of how we are to receive them.

I look forward to your ruling in terms of how we conduct ourselves with the style of government we have in the House.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to just state for the record today that I, too, heard the comments of my colleague Mr.

Abernethy

yesterday. It was a heated debate. Cabinet Ministers, specifically the Premier , were visibly upset over the motion to delete the $1.5 million. You could see it on their faces. Actually, some of them were turning quite a shade of red.

I believe that my colleague Mr. Abernethy was pointing out the obvious. Again, Cabinet waded into the debate. They started trying to defend the $1.5

million expenditure in this area that the motion spoke of. It is unfortunate my colleague named a couple of Ministers who didn’t speak to the motion, and I believe they were caught in the crossfire of a heated debate.

You know, you can connect the dots in this motion, that the $1.5 million…. My colleague was stating the obvious. There wasn’t 10 cents of that $1.5 million expenditure being spent in anyone’s riding on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker. He was only stating the obvious. Mahsi.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will listen to this and wait for your ruling. But even comments and some of the discussion here continue to talk about obvious facts.

Mr. Speaker, the motion was referring to…. If we look at the document that was being referred to on the capital infrastructure piece, or acquisition plan of the Government of the Northwest Territories for 2008–2009, under ITI, page 9-7, the specific area refers to Parks Renewal — Territorial.

Mr. Speaker, the fact that the Member raised an issue and spoke on behalf…. There are no obvious facts. When you look at Hansard, there is no record in Hansard of both the Member for Sahtu and the Member for Deh Cho speaking to this.

Now, we’ve heard some Members say there was obviously a concern or an upset view from some of us over here, and I would have to accept that as Premier and Finance Minister . The budget was being cut. There’s obviously going to be some reaction to that from me. But the fact is that in this House we all reserve the right to speak for ourselves and our constituencies. None of the Members on the other side would take very lightly the fact if I were to stand up and start speaking on behalf of the Member for Mackenzie Delta , or Nunakput or Kam Lake, and say, “They are doing this, or they're feeling this,” when they’ve never expressed that in this Assembly.

Now, in heated debate things can happen; agreed. But I think that is why, more importantly, we need clear guidelines as to what is acceptable and not acceptable. If Members enter into the fray, then I guess in this circle we would call it fair game. But for those who have not expressed an opinion on the particular debate, I don’t think it would be appropriate for them to put on record — on permanent record — what was being said, because a lot of people in the Northwest Territories only have Hansard to look at.

So, Members, when you raise an obvious fact, we know the fact because we’ve done our work in this Assembly. But for the people in the Northwest Territories, when they hear the debate — if they catch a bit of it or they just catch Hansard — they’re not getting all those pieces. In fact, when they go back and they link up to this document, they would see us talking about territorial assets and facilities.

So I don't think it’s appropriate for any Member of this House, whether it be a Minister or a Regular Member, to try to state what another Member is feeling when they haven’t been part of the debate on any motion at that point.

I look forward to your ruling, Mr. Speaker, in that area. But we definitely need clear guidelines as to how we proceed from this point, and a better understanding. It is in time of heated debate that things can go sideways on us, as they would say.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . To the point of order, the honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak on the point of order, and in favour of the point of order, on two points. One is the notion that a Member in this House can read an opinion of another by looking at them, which is exactly what happened with respect to Mr.

Abernethy’s

statement yesterday.

I am aware that we need to have a good debate, passionate debate, heated debate, and things are said sometimes that we may not say in a regular situation. That is the reason we have the rules. One of the strongest rules we have is that we’re not allowed to impute motive to another Member, even when the words are spoken. You’re not allowed to impute motive into something that was verbally stated.

What we are dealing with here, on the face of it, is a Member imputing motives about happiness or unhappiness or whatever on the basis of something that was not spoken. If we are going to be judged and have our motive imputed on the basis of how we look, I think that would pose serious trouble for any future debates in this House. I would ask you, Mr. Speaker, to consider that fact closely.

The second thing is that there is a larger issue about an obvious thing that’s being referred to, which is that Cabinet as a whole somehow are making decisions that favour a Cabinet Minister’s riding and that they are being upset because it’s being deleted. That is a serious accusation that we cannot…. If we accept that these are acceptable words to be spoken and, in the heat of debate on a budget, that any Member could impute that a Cabinet Minister specifically — even when he didn’t

even say anything — is upset or happy because of something happening to his riding, that is a serious crossing of the line and breach of the line of debate that I don’t think we should condone. That really gets in the way of the integrity of consensus government and the level of civility and the respect we need to have in the Legislature to have a healthy debate and for the integrity of the consensus government that we work under.

I am really troubled, Mr. Speaker — and I will be waiting for your ruling — that so many Members are saying, “That is obvious.” The point of order we need to respect here is that that is not obvious, that is not correct. If that is being imputed from something that was not even said, that has to be rejected. I look forward to your ruling.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . To the point of order. Mr. Abernethy , do you have your hand up?

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Yes.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Okay, Mr. Abernethy .

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it’s important to make clear — I mean, if you look at the context, the text, and the Hansard within the full context, the first paragraph, second paragraph and third paragraph — that I don’t believe I was imputing any motive. I certainly was not suggesting there was a ministerial sort of conspiracy. The fact that the Minister from Range Lake suggests that I was suggesting that is kind of off base.

I don’t feel I was suggesting that at all. I was talking about the motion. I talked about how I understood there were obviously going to be some people upset about this. Then I further went on to talk about how this is not necessarily a dead issue. We have an opportunity to work together as a group. For the Minister to suggest I was actually suggesting there might be some inappropriate activity going on, on behalf of Cabinet, is completely off base.

I mean, I’ll further state — I’ll make it deadly clear — I was never questioning the integrity of the Minister, certainly not questioning the credentials or the credibility of the Minister. I was talking about the fact that we were cutting $1.5 million, and it was certainly going to be affecting some people. I can clearly understand how unfortunate that is and how that’s going to adversely affect some people, specifically the Members.

I also never referred to them as Ministers. I referred to them as Members. My intent was not to impute motive in any way, shape or form.

I’m a little offended by Ms. Lee ’s claim that I’m, in fact, imputing motive. I think that’s actually inappropriate.

I respect this House. I’ll treat this House with respect. I’ll treat all Members with respect. I think I’ve demonstrated I’m capable of that, and I think I’ve done that in the nine months I’ve been here, and I’ll continue to do that. I’m going to wait for the Speaker’s ruling on this. If the Speaker should rule me out of order, I’ll happily withdraw my comments and I’ll happily and sincerely apologize to the Member, but until that time I don’t believe in any way, shape or form that I was imputing motive. If I did, it was certainly not my intent.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . To the point of order. I’ll allow the final remarks to Mr. McLeod.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, it’s an issue of somebody suggesting what my position was on an issue that I had no opportunity to speak to. Whether or not I had intended to speak to the issue is a separate issue altogether.

We heard again today four Members say it’s clear that this is a fact — pointing at me — that I was upset. I don’t think anybody across the room knew how I felt.

This is a territorial project. It is in the Deh Cho. That is a fact. Whether or not I was upset, whether I was going to defend the position, is a whole separate issue, and nobody has the right to speak on my behalf. I resent that, and I will not accept that.

This, I think, is somewhat a little bit clearer in the fact that the Member has indicated he wasn’t questioning my credibility and my integrity. However, that’s not how I felt yesterday. I felt that he was raising issues with my ability to do my job, and I had to raise it today, Mr. Speaker. I’ll await your decision.

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Point of Order

Point of Order

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I have allowed some debate on the point of order. Due to the number of Members who have spoken on this point of order and issues that were raised, feelings that were expressed, I will take this point of order under advisement and come back with my ruling so I can review everything that was said in response to the point of order. Thank you, Members.

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The Hon. Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

Earlier this afternoon Prime Minister Stephen

Harper provided a statement of apology to former students of aboriginal residential schools.

I would like to offer this government’s acknowledgement of the Prime Minister’s apology to the aboriginal people and their families who have been hurt by their attendance at residential schools.

Most people in this territory have been impacted in some way by the effect of residential schools. Many have families or friends who were affected. Over half the Members of this Legislative Assembly attended residential schools themselves. All of us have witnessed the loss, sorrow and devastation caused by these schools. Many of the challenges Northerners face — from loss of language, culture and family connection, to addictions and further abuses — stem from the difficult personal and family situations created by the residential school system in our communities.

The Prime Minister’s apology is a glimmer of hope for northern students who passed through a dark part of Canadian history and finally marks the beginning of a period of healing and recovery. This apology is a necessary step on the healing journey of those who have suffered and suffer still. It does not mean the harm done to them by residential schools will go away, but it allows for a new

chapter in this sorrowful book — a turning of the page that signals a new beginning and a time of reconciliation and hope for aboriginal families across our land.

Mr. Speaker, we have a great deal of work ahead of us to help those affected deal with the indignities, degradation and suffering that resulted from residential schools. Much of the planning we do in this Legislature is bound to the events of the residential school system.

For some there has been a positive side to their experience. Students met lifelong friends and received an education that started them on a successful career path, as we witnessed recently at a Yellowknife reunion of one NWT residential school.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT has granted casual leave to employees wishing to watch the apology or attend events marking the occasion. Let us also pause for a moment from our discussions and debates today to remember and pray for those students and family members who have suffered as a result of the residential school system. Let us reflect on their suffering and also on their strength. Let us honour the culture, language and community that has been retained even as we mourn for what was tragically lost.

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Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Roland. The

honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Ministers’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I move that Minister’s Statement 62-16(2) be moved into Committee of the Whole for further debate.

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Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder to the motion? The Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins . Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order.

Motion carried.

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Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Minister’s Statement 62-16(2) will be moved into Committee of the Whole.

The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister’s Statement 63-16(2) Recognition Of John B. Zoe

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. John B. Zoe is receiving an honorary Doctor of Laws in Edmonton for his work in community service and with government agencies in the Tlicho region. The positive impact Mr. Zoe has had on the North will be felt for many years to come.

As one of the main drivers of the Tlicho negotiations, he worked tirelessly to make sure his people were represented. Mr. Zoe was a chief negotiator for the entire duration of the negotiations. His dedication helped make the landmark agreement a reality.

He also played a big

part in the creation of the Tlicho Community Service Agency. That agency is unique in the way it delivers education, health and social services within the context of the traditional cultural values and has received national and international awards for its innovative model. Mr. Zoe has been dedicated to preserving, reviving and celebrating the culture and language of Tlicho people for more than two decades. He has helped revitalize traditional activities such as canoe making with the elders and youth in the region. Getting youth out on the land, being a mentor and reviving cultural traditions has made Mr.

Zoe a true

custodian of his culture.

It would be impossible to highlight every important thing Mr. Zoe has done for the Tlicho people and for the North. He is a storyteller, a politician, a public servant, an anthropologist, an archaeologist, a musician, a husband and a father. He wears many hats and does so with a tireless work ethic, humility and respect for others. He deserves to be recognized for his passion for, and dedication to, his people and their heritage.

The honour he has received from the University of Alberta is a testament to his positive influence. His contribution to our territory should be celebrated, and I would like you to join me in applauding him. Mahsi cho.

Applause.

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Minister’s Statement 63-16(2) Recognition Of John B. Zoe

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Lafferty. The

honourable Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, Ms. Lee .

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Minister’s Statement 64-16(2) Northern Women In Mining, Oil And Gas

Ministers’ Statements

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister Responsible for the Status of Women

In the spirit of celebrating Mining Week this week, I would to take this opportunity to acknowledge and congratulate 11 women who recently completed the Building Trades Helper Program under the Northern Women in Mining, Oil and Gas Project.

This program provides workplace exposure to women in trade occupations such as carpentry, electrical, welding, plumbing and other trades integral to the mining, oil and gas industries. The governments of Canada and the Northwest Territories, industry and Aurora College all partnered with the Status of Women Council to provide financial support, housing, hands-on site training and upgrading in preparation for them to write the trades entrance examination.

Mr.

Speaker, northern women are under-

represented in industrial trades, which means northern women are a huge untapped labour resource that the industry is eager to have working on their projects. I’m pleased to see northern women enrol in this program, and I encourage them to explore the lucrative opportunities available to them in industry.

I commend the Status of Women Council and their numerous industry partners for their insight in providing this type of program for the training of women in the industrial trades.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to invite the Members of the Legislative Assembly to join me in recognizing 11 northern women from all regions of the Northwest Territories who have already taken a giant step forward: Sharon Gauthier, Joyce Greenland, Valerie Kimiksana, Laura Krutko, Shirley Niditchie, Stephanie Smutylo, Emelda King, Doris Rabesca, Sarah Tautuajuk, Kayla Crozier and Jennifer McDonald.

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Minister’s Statement 64-16(2) Northern Women In Mining, Oil And Gas

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms.

Lee. Item 3,

Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today’s a very emotional day for many of my constituents. I’d like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the

Mr. Speaker, from this day forward many will be able to complete their personal journey of healing, while for many others this marks the beginning of this personal journey of healing. June 21 is just around the corner, and it is a recognized statutory holiday in the Northwest Territories. I would like to encourage all to support and honour this special day as a special day for aboriginal people as well as all Canadians.

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Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Beaulieu. The

honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Mandatory Leave Without Pay Concerns For Affected Employees

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to discuss today treatment that some of our employees who’ve been affected by the proposed budget are receiving.

Since March of this year GNWT employees have been dealing with what are effectively layoff notices and all the emotion and the angst that such notices brings. Over the last couple of weeks as we have discussed the budget, Members have been told that the government is trying to make it as easy as possible for the affected employees and to help them transition from one job to the next within the government, from the government to another employer, or to unemployment. That it is easy for these employees, however, is a statement I find quite debatable.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to advise this House of an injustice in our pay system for certain employees, and it’s related to Donny Days. Some time ago, to make things fair for all employees, the GNWT and the Union of Northern Workers, through a collective agreement signed by both parties, agreed that 1.92 per cent of each employee’s paycheque would be deducted throughout the year so that the staff would receive pay throughout the mandatory leave days, or Donny Days, in December. Both parties have also agreed that these pay deductions are attached to the job position, not the employee, and

that’s been verified by an arbitration case. Should an employee leave his or her job mid-year and the position be subsequently filled, the new employee will still have fully paid for the December leave courtesy of the previous person’s deductions. It all works out in the end, and it does make sense, actually.

But, Mr. Speaker, what do not make sense are the pay deductions of an employee whose position is being terminated as a result of this budget. No one will fill that position; it’s gone. Poof! Yet the Department of Human Resources is advising these employees that no refund of their Donny Days deductions will be forthcoming. To add insult to injury, we are laying people off and we are reducing their salary for five days’ leave they will not be able to take. The money will not go to another employee, as the position has been eliminated.

No doubt the funds could fall into general revenue, but it’s also entirely possible that the money will be used by the department as a slush fund to buy supplies or support programs, and that does not seem fair to me.

This injustice needs to be corrected, Mr. Speaker. Affected employees whose positions are eliminated who do not go on to another GNWT job should receive a refund of the 1.92 per cent of their pay that’s been deducted on each paycheque for Donny Days. I will have questions for the Minister of Finance later on.

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Mandatory Leave Without Pay Concerns For Affected Employees

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms.

Bisaro. The

honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Exploration Permits In The Beaufort Sea

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Last

Friday the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs announced exploration leases totalling over $1 billion and covering nearly 850,000 hectares of the Beaufort seabed. British Petroleum paid $1.18 billion for a 380-hectare parcel, which surpassed last year’s record payment of $585 million on exploration leases. The two other leases, totalling $4.3 million, went to MGM Energy Corp. and ConocoPhillips Canada Resources Corp.

Needless to say, Mr. Speaker, we are excited in the Beaufort-Delta, as these leases require work commitments totalling $300 million. This means economic opportunities for the businesses in the communities of Tuktoyaktuk and Inuvik and employment opportunities for residents.

It’s good for the people of Tuk to see more opportunities for the community. We were a bit in an exploration slump for a while due to uncertainty over the construction of the Mackenzie Gas Project. The slump is over.

I want to urge all successful bidders to work with the people and the businesses of the Beaufort-Delta and the community of Tuktoyaktuk to ensure maximum benefit to the region.

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Exploration Permits In The Beaufort Sea

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Jacobson. The

honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Location Of The Aurora Research Institute

Members’ Statements

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I asked the Premier some questions on the Arctic Research Institute. I’d like to follow that up today with my Member’s statement.

We all know climate change is happening. This is something that’s been out there for a while. We see it first-hand in the Beaufort-Delta with the banks starting to cave in with permafrost giving out and that. We see it in the ocean. The signs are all out there, and I think Mr. Bromley points out quite well that there are a lot of concerns. My colleague Mr. Jacobson spoke to the exploration that’s going to be going on in the Beaufort-Delta, which is a good thing for business in the Beaufort-Delta, but they still will continue to monitor the environment.

That brings me to the point I want to make. The federal government is looking to put up an Aurora institute as the place to conduct research and have it as the headquarters. I think I’ve tried to make my case why the facility should be in the Beaufort-Delta and, in particular, in Inuvik. The Arctic is an open textbook as to climate change and how it’s affecting the animals. If you want to study the ocean, we have it there. If you want to study the delta, the delta’s there. If you want to study whales, they’re there. If you want to study buffalo, they’ll soon be there because of the way things are changing.

I will have questions today to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , because I think the location of the Aurora Research Institute should be in Inuvik, and I think the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will be a big player in helping decide where it’s going to go. I will pose my questions to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment at the appropriate time.

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Location Of The Aurora Research Institute

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

McLeod. The

honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Norman Wells oil field. This oil is a Northwest Territories resource, yet the federal government is raking in hundreds of millions of dollars with no return to the NWT.

Just how much are they making from our resources? At an average price of $65 per barrel for crude oil, the revenues for the federal government for 2006–2007 from the Norman Wells field were $123 million. For 2007–2008 there was a higher price for oil, on average, offset by the lower exchange rate and a 5 per cent decline in production; at $100 per barrel average price for last year, federal receipts will be $165 million. For 2008–2009, with a slight drop in production but greater average price per barrel, about $125, an estimated total of $215 million in revenue will accrue to the federal government.

Same-source revenues for the GNWT and aboriginal governments from the sale of this oil will be nil. The accumulation of gross levels of profit by Canada from NWT resources without any benefits to us is unacceptable and wrong. It is only right that windfall profits from the extraction and sale of our natural resources be returned to this jurisdiction to do good work.

We in the NWT are a small population widely distributed and often living in small, remote communities. Many of our communities rely almost exclusively on fossil fuels for heating, power and transportation needs. The dedication of these windfall profits to replacing fossil fuel systems with renewable energy systems in, say, our five most expensive small Mackenzie Valley communities would be an entirely appropriate use and, indeed, investment of these dollars. This investment would free significant dollars that could then be invested in similarly wise ways to help other communities deal with the rising cost of living and the challenges of preventing and adjusting to climate change.

Mr.

Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to

conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I view this as a moral imperative. These oil resources are Northerners’ resources, and clearly considerable revenues are already contributing to national issues. We are also facing serious issues here in the North. I encourage this government to vigorously pursue the appropriate return and reinvestment of windfall profits currently

received by the federal government from our oil reserves.

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Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Bromley. The

honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I had an opportunity to watch the Prime Minister of Canada make an official apology to residential school survivors in Canada and, more importantly, to the children who are no longer here.

It’s very hard to stand here and talk about an issue that I feel. Nothing can bring back those children, my friends. There’s no amount of money in the world that can bring back your culture, your language or your lifestyle, which was so unique prior to the Europeans coming to Canada. These people had their own systems of caring for their children, caring for their elders, caring for their communities, being gathered so that everybody was able to sustain themselves. It was hard to see the elders on the television crying, because I also shed a tear.

We have to do better for the aboriginal people of Canada, the aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories, and the ones who are still hurting. These people had their own governance systems. These people were self-reliant. These people were able to care for their children, their elders and their communities. Yet look at what it has done to the generations of people from this concept being implemented in the mid-1800s to where we are today. It has affected us greatly in our ability to function in society, our ability to govern ourselves and our ability to retain our languages.

Mr.

Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to

conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

As we know, the first indigenous people have been involved. In some places the archeologists were able to trace their ancestry back for 10,000 years in northern Canada. Where are we today?

I can quote the Prime Minister of Canada when he basically states that never again will we have such a policy in place by way of the residential school policy. We do have a policy. It’s called apprehension. We have over 630 children in foster homes and care facilities in the Northwest Territories. In southern institutions there are some 8,300 children who are under foster care on reserves in southern Canada. What are we doing different?

I will be asking the Minister of Health questions with regard to what we are doing with 630 children in care, of whom 570 are aboriginal.

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Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Krutko. The

honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, wish to speak on the Indian residential school apology.

Residential schools caused incredible suffering for thousands of aboriginal people when their children were systemically removed from their family, community and culture. Our aboriginal children suffered physical and emotional abuse leading to loss of language, culture and parenting skills. The impact of those experiences has and will have serious effects on the health and well-being of generations of aboriginal people.

Today Prime Minister Harper made that statement on behalf of the federal government and all Canadians in the House of Commons. Mr. Speaker, this apology is another step toward a brighter future for our First Nations. Canada is moving forward in acknowledging and regretting the harm it inflicted on my people. Compensation payments and the launch of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission are connected steps supporting the recovery from the trauma suffered.

Today thousands of First Nations people gathered in Ottawa to witness this historic event in person. In my riding and in many other parts of the NWT people were glued to the TV and radio to hear that apology. It is an apology to each one of us as members of First Nations. An apology cannot undo what happened. The government apology is about what they’ve done to our people. To us, it’s about tragedy of loss. I send my wishes of courage,

strength and wisdom to our people to find forgiveness so we can move forward.

Mr.

Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to

conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

We need to ensure that the stories and experiences of our residential school survivors and the Canadian policies that inflicted them remain in the conscious memory of all Canadians. Instead of blank pages, they must become part of our history books. They must be talked about in our schools and history classes. When we learn from history instead of forgetting about it, we can start building a better future for our children and grandchildren.

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Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Menicoche. The

honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Hydroelectric Development In The Northwest Territories

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to speak today about hydroelectric development in the Northwest Territories. I’ve said previously that the Government of the Northwest Territories needs to develop a long-range hydro strategy that sets out the roles, responsibilities and possibilities that exist to take our government and aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories forward together in developing this vast resource of ours. We cannot do this in isolation. We will need to develop a strategy to engage and consult with aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories.

I understand that we need to move forward, and I have stated before that in principle I do support the expansion of the Taltson hydro system. However, I would feel more comfortable if I knew there would be a social component to the expansion. Communities in the South Slave should see decreases in their power rates. Also, we need to ensure we have customers to sell the power to.

Mr. Speaker, it will probably take three to four years to go through the regulatory approval and construction, and that will take three or four years off the mine life expectancy of our existing mines. I haven’t seen any signed contracts to date from these mining companies to buy power from Taltson. We’re set to spend another $3 million toward this project, and we need to have a sound business case for that to happen. If this project is such a good business case, it should be completely cost-neutral to the public purse.

We need to ensure that as a government we get as much as possible out of the Taltson expansion and transmission line. In developing this comprehensive hydro strategy, we also need to make sure we have

the expertise and the experience to develop our potential in a coordinated, timely and businesslike manner.

As a government we may have hired over 70 new positions in the area of the Mackenzie Gas Project over the past five years to deal with that project. Why are we not getting serious about hydro and the potential it has? To my knowledge, we’ve not hired one person with any degree of experience or expertise in this area, which makes me wonder: who is developing this hydro strategy, Mr. Speaker?

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Hydroelectric Development In The Northwest Territories

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Ramsay. The

honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

I would like to speak to the Prime Minister’s apology to the students of aboriginal residential schools, which we heard broadcast earlier today.

I believe this apology was a good thing and long overdue. Although it cannot erase the wrongs of the past, it is still a powerful statement on behalf of the Canadian government and also on behalf of Canadian people. The Prime Minister’s is the most powerful voice in the land, and I think it must be seen to represent the voice of Canadian people.

We know the lasting impacts of the events that occur during a child’s formative years. We can only imagine the feelings of anxiety and trauma when a child is separated from the love, discipline and authority of their parents’ care. It was an interruption and an assault on one of nature’s most sacred relationships: that between parents and their children.

There are serious, lasting consequences of the loss of that bond. Apologizing could be the beginning of forgiveness, which is also a powerful choice. If the aboriginal people affected by this travesty of public policy and the ensuing offences can receive this apology and, as my colleague said, could find the strength to forgive even though forgiveness may not be deserved, I believe there can be healing.

We as Northerners must look for meaningful ways to express our support and understanding of each other. We in this House have a unique opportunity as elected Northern leaders to demonstrate ways to promote healing and peace, and we should look for every opportunity to do that.

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Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I, too, would like to speak to the issue of Prime Minister Harper’s statement regarding the apology for residential schooling that happened to First Nations and Inuit people in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I had one of the unique experiences of growing up in Fort Simpson, and I

always

treasure that. I’ve met a lot of people over the years who have gone to residential school. I had to attend Akaitcho Hall because there wasn’t a school there, and I built a lot of bonds with many good friends who have gone through the system. For that, I’ll always treasure the experiences, knowledge and the relationships we’ve always had.

I felt that the place I went to was a caring organization, and it was okay for me. But I’ll tell you: my experience was that it wasn’t for everyone. The administration, the organization and the intent took care of many of us, but the stress of being taken away from families was too much to bear for many people. I remember many people going home — not a lot, but many people — because of the heartstrings it pulled upon and the problems it created there.

I want to commend other Members, such as David Krutko , for speaking about his experience and his relationships and the challenges they faced. As well, I want to recognize Mr. Menicoche for his experiences, which he’s spoken about today.

Mr. Speaker, I had a statement I couldn’t read today, because I think what happened today was a groundbreaking moment. As highlighted by Mr. Menicoche , this is not just going to be a page in history. This will be a new

chapter on how we identify ourselves.

Mr. Speaker, even though maybe someone had thought this was right, fortunately someone is looking back and saying, This was completely wrong. I think that so much of the identity of people was erased over such a horrible period of time that it will take not just years but decades and decades for us to move forward.

My heart goes out to those who still struggle with challenges. I know people for whom this experience has not just changed their lives; it has permanently carved a new path for them. It’s not a path they willed upon themselves; it’s an experience that was forced upon them.

Mr. Speaker, I’m going to close by saying that I’m grateful for my experience. I’m not saying that every day was good, but I’m saying that this recognition was of the fact that many people struggled, and

they need that recognition and that apology, which came today.

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Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much,

Mr. Speaker. I see the mayor of Fort Simpson, Mr. Duncan Canvin, in the gallery. Welcome.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 6, acknowledgements. Item

7, oral questions. The

honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services . It’s in regard to the number of children we have in care in the Northwest Territories. We have some 630 children in care at a cost of $15 million to this government. Out of those 630 children, some 570 are aboriginal children.

Knowing that in southern Canada — I mentioned the off-reserve number, which is 8,300 — there’s been a 65 per cent increase, I’d like to ask the Minister: in regard to this program being administered through the implementation of the Child and Family Services Act, what is the increase in numbers of children in care since the act came into place?

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Krutko. The

honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have that specific number the Member is asking for. I’d be happy to undertake to get that.

I think it’s really important to note — and the Member is right — that we have about 630 children in care of some kind in the Territories. The vast majority of them are aboriginal children, but most of them are in their homes with their extended families in their communities. The number of children who are in southern facilities has decreased dramatically. I think it’s a gain we should be proud of.

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I don’t think we should be proud of having any kid put into care.

There are 331 aboriginal children in foster care. That’s over half of the 570 children I mentioned. I’d like to ask the Minister: what are we doing to reunite these children with their parents and to reunite the families?

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I wasn’t suggesting we should be proud of the fact that we have children in care. I agree with the Member that we want to minimize that number as much as possible.

The fact is that we have made some progress. In 1999, out of all the children in care, most of them were not with their families in the communities.

We have very few children — only about 38 out of 630 children — outside of the NWT, in southern care. They are there because they need services and programs we’re not able to offer in the Territories.

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, this is a travesty similar to the residential school situation, where they had great intentions of helping the aboriginal children and trying to make them something they weren’t.

I’d like to ask the Minister. Under the policy it clearly states that every effort has to be made to reunite those children with their families. The policy is clear. Are you following the policy to ensure the 570 children are reunited with their parents?

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, yes. Every effort is made within the policy and within the children’s care service to do everything we can to keep our children in their homes.

A lot of parents are willing to get into a voluntary service agreement with Social Services where they’re given some guidelines and boundaries as to what they need to provide to the children in order to keep their children. A lot of parents are doing that.

I have to correct the facts. Out of 630 children in care, we have 18 in southern jurisdictions. The vast majority of our children in care are in the North and with their parents and extended families as much as possible.

I do agree with the Member that it’s an area we need to continue to work on and continue to work on to keep the families together wherever possible.

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms.

Lee. Final

supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. As

I mentioned, we’re spending some $15 million in regard to people in care. She mentioned 18 people

in southern Canada. We’re spending over $4 million in that area, yet the Minister clearly stated that they are ensuring these children are reunited with their families. I hear we have children in Nova Scotia from aboriginal communities in the North.

I’d like to ask the Minister if she can give me a breakdown in detail of exactly how many of these dollars are really expended in the North and exactly what we are doing. Give me the numbers. How many children have been reunited with their parents? You say: yes, they are. Well, let’s see the numbers.

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I think the numbers he’s referring to have to do with children who are in southern facilities for all kinds of reasons, not just for foster care.

I’d be happy to offer the Member and provide to the Member a breakdown on all children we have in southern institutions. They could be there for health care issues or treatment or foster care purposes.

As well, I’d be happy to provide the Member with detailed information on what measures are taken within the policy of the department to enhance the chance to keep the children in the families.

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Question 309-16(2) Reuniting Aboriginal Foster Children With Families

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I spoke in my Member’s statement about pay deductions to provide for an employee’s pay during Donny Days in December and on this government’s policy to keep Donny Days deductions when a position is terminated.

It seems patently unfair, Mr. Speaker, and I’d like to ask the Minister of Finance to explain to the House why the government keeps funds which rightly belong to the employee.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms.

Bisaro. The

honourable

Minister responsible for Finance ,

Mr. Roland .

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This area of mandatory leave without pay was an issue that was originally implemented in 1995–1996, I believe — within that year or the year after that — as a result of changes with the pay system.

The system that’s in place today was negotiated and put in place with the UNW. That’s why it exists today.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

thank the Minister for the

explanation. I

mentioned in my statement that

I know this is a negotiated agreement, but it’s a negotiated agreement for the job position. If the job position ends and there is no employee who takes the job because there’s no job to go to, then the employee whose job has been terminated has been giving up deductions for leave days they won’t be able to take.

I’d like the Minister to explain. The job has been terminated; there is no further job; I am terminated in June. From June to the end of the year there is no job. There are no further pay deductions. Why must the government keep my Donny Days deductions?

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, we would have to look at sitting down with the UNW. The language in the agreement speaks to no reimbursements in this category, and to date there have been none made. We would have to see if this would be one area for discussion. Of course, we know that when we open that door, there’s going to be a list of them coming forward. We also know that we will be sitting down with the union in the near future as well.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I thank the Minister for his willingness to meet with the union, because I’m sure the union is going to want to meet with the government to discuss this issue. A number of our employees are in this particular situation.

I’d like to know from the Minister what steps he is going to take or when he is going to take steps to meet with the union. I’ll leave it at that for now.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I’ll work with the Minister responsible for Human Resources . Our primary contact through our contract process is through that department. I’ll sit down with the Minister and look at what options and timelines we can look at.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Roland. Final

supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, and thanks to the Minister. I guess my last question would be on how he intends to communicate this to the union and/or to our employees.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Mr.

Speaker, first and

foremost, we need to sit down and look at what options are available, what our request would look like, how a discussion could be undertaken with the UNW, and what that might look toward. If it ends up becoming an actual negotiation, part of the negotiation process, that can take quite some time as well. We’d have to sit down together to go through that. I’ll have to have a discussion with our

Minister responsible for Human Resources to go through some of these details and timelines we would be having to look at.

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Question 310-16(2) Mandatory Leave Without Pay For Affected Employees

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Roland. The

honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal government is obviously accruing gross levels of profits — windfall profits — from the sale of oil from the Norman Wells oilfield.

My question is to the Minister of Finance . What is he doing to get special dispensation under these extraordinary situations — circumstances where windfall profits are getting huge — to recover those dollars under special dispensation and put them toward some of our big issues we’ve got going here?

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Bromley. The

honourable

Minister responsible for Finance ,

Mr. Roland .

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The term “special dispensation” is one we don’t normally have a discussion on with the federal government.

This issue has been part of our process around devolution of resource revenue sharing. Previous governments have included that discussion. From the Northwest Territories’ point of view, it should be included as a royalty, but of course that’s in dispute with the federal government.

My latest discussions with the leaders in the territory as well as with the federal government have been to recognize that those resources and the equity payment they’re receiving are as a result of the development of the North, and those should flow back to the North through infrastructure or another arrangement. So those areas are being looked at. It has always been on the table to try to get equal dollar value out of that to stay in the North.

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thanks for those comments from the Minister. What caught my ear was that these have always been part of the discussions. Obviously, you know, we could wait till the cows come home until we get some response from the federal government here. It’s a very difficult situation, I’m the first to admit.

By “special dispensation” I’m saying these are windfall profits that are accruing right now. One comment, Mr. Speaker: the federal government is pursuing the oil companies, because of their

windfall profits, to try and recover some of those. This is the perfect opportunity.

Will the Minister really go after a special dispensation from the federal government, using their own reasoning, to recover some of these windfall profits, these gross amounts of money from our resources, and put them to special issues such as cost of living and climate change that are also national issues? It would help address national and territorial as well as local issues.

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, for us as the Government of the Northwest Territories to in fact gain those resources so we can direct them to initiatives in the Northwest Territories would be indeed, I would consider, a great day for the Northwest Territories. We have to come up with an arrangement on a common approach as we’re sitting down and discussing with regional aboriginal leadership. Those dollars that come out of the Norman Wells find have been part of those discussions.

Now, not every group agrees we should be going down and getting those. They see that as their area of negotiation. We do need to come together as the Government of the Northwest Territories and leaders in the Northwest Territories and finally just decide we need to get a move on this. As I said about our financial situation, here’s an opportunity to help us reinvest in the North in critical areas. It is something we are pursuing and will continue to pursue: the equal value that is coming out of the Norman Wells area.

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I caught the word “short” there. I just want to emphasize that we could very well have some federal partners here. I don’t think we should be waiting. I’m not saying we should be giving up on the larger issues that we’re pursuing in concert with our partner governments, aboriginal governments and so on. But on this issue I think the Northwest Territories should go after a special dispensation in the short term to take advantage of these windfall profits. Will the Minister commit to do that?

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, we’re always looking at options and angles to approach the federal government in getting more revenues to the Northwest Territories. This will be one of those. It is a complex matter just with the issues we have to deal with in the North as well. It is something we always consider: options we can go forward on and looking for different avenues for reinvestment in the North. I will commit to that. I’ll raise this issue and continue to raise this issue, but it is in a complex environment, I must let Members know.

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Question 311-16(2) Resource Royalties From Northern Oil Reserves

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Roland. The

honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today I have questions on dental surgery services for residents of Fort Resolution. I have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services about those services. Can the Minister tell me when and why the dental surgery unit in Hay River Hospital has closed?

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Beaulieu. The

honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no such thing as a dental surgery unit in any hospital in the Territories, but it is true that dental surgery services have been discontinued, and they’re not being offered in any other health service facilities in the Territories, including Hay River as of March of this year.

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

I’m not sure why that happened, but could the Minister tell me what the options for the people in Fort Resolution are now for that service?

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, the reason was that dental surgery is not an insured service under the NWT health care benefits program. It is a non-insured service, and for those who have third-party insurance, part of it is covered under that. The federal government is responsible for those residents of the Territories who are eligible for NIHB.

Mr. Speaker, the option, then, for the residents of Fort Resolution is to work with the health care professional in their community. If they are eligible for NIHB or other insurance programs, they’re eligible to have the surgery in a private care facility we have an arrangement with south of 60.

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

I’m assuming that coming to Yellowknife is not an option. There is additional cost to travel down south even if you’re going there on medical. Who would cover the cost of people who can’t afford — even with their dental surgery covered — to travel down south but aren’t able to access service in the NWT?

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

This is a big issue for us, and it’s one I’m working to resolve. Children who need dental surgery under NIHB will have most of the services covered. For those who can’t afford it, we have an assistance program available under health insurance. They have to be indigent.

This is a huge challenge for us in that the biggest cost of the dental surgery service is the services of anaesthetists, who cost about $1,000 per 90 minutes. We feel that dental surgeons who are

offering this service and are getting paid for most of the funding should contribute to some of the cost of doing it. Government is willing to do that, and I’m also wanting the federal government to step up to the plate and get into a partnership with us so we can provide the services in the North for our residents. I’m working on that.

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms.

Lee. Final

supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Aside from the fact that this is money that’s going south and that the service is not available and expensive and so on, there are also long waiting periods for people to go and get dental surgery. Can the Minister tell me if there is recent work to bring dental surgery services back to the NWT?

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

There are dental surgeons, I’m sure, who are willing to provide the surgery in our health care clinics and hospitals, but the expectation is that the Government of the Northwest Territories will cover the entire cost of the OR nurses, OR staff and the anaesthesiologist, who is one of the most expensive specialists. We feel there is room for us to negotiate, because the dentists are getting most of the coverage for providing that service or are compensated for that. We also feel that the federal government should step into covering the dental surgery costs, because it is a question of long-term oral health of our residents.

I am investigating this, and I’m looking at the possibility of making this service available in either Hay River Hospital, where there is room for that, but probably not in Stanton, because they are fully occupied. But I am looking into that. We need the surgeons and the federal government and everybody to work together on this.

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Question 312-16(2) Dental Surgery Service For Fort Resolution Residents

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, going back to my Member’s statement today on the Beaufort lease sale, what is the GNWT going to get out of the lease sale in the Beaufort?

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Jacobson. The

Hon. Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Until actual development occurs as a result of those leases, and if they are successful in finding some products they can take out and transport or develop in the North, on the bid side the benefit we’ll get is when people are hired and increase the wealth in

the communities and impact us from that side of it. Businesses take

part in the activity and have a higher corporate tax. That’s the piece we get. We don’t have a direct benefit at this stage of the leases going up.

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

What is the government doing to maximize our benefits right now?

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

The area we focus on — and I guess to an earlier question about devolution and resource revenue sharing.... The oil and gas

part is still with the federal government. We would hope to see that come north as well so we can see some of those benefits accruing for the Territories.

The issue of what we’re doing today to maximize benefits would depend, for example, on which region we are in. With the Beaufort Sea area being within the Inuvialuit region, part of their claim permits them a portion of the work and some control over how businesses would work in that jurisdiction. They would get benefit from that side. As the Government of the Northwest Territories, again, if there’s production and other levels of development that happen, we can then look directly at areas such as socio-economic agreements that we put in place, again making sure Northerners get the majority of the contracts and jobs.

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

When is the government going to take this issue about benefits back to Ottawa to open up this discussion again?

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

In the area of devolution and resource revenue sharing, I’m trying to move that file ahead. I’ve already had two meetings with regional aboriginal leadership to discuss this issue. Of course, different regions are at different stages of their own land claims and self-government discussions. Some aren’t prepared to have that discussion. I think that, as the North, we do have to have a discussion about how we get this and when those benefits would begin to accrue to the Northwest Territories.

As Members are seeing throughout this budget process, we have to make difficult choices with the fiscal environment that we have to live in. Resource revenues flowing to the Government of the Northwest Territories and aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories would definitely help us in enhancing the level of service we can provide.

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Roland. Final

supplementary, Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

I have none at this time.

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Question 313-16(2) Exploration Permits In The Beaufort-Delta

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I could ask my questions to the Minister Responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation or perhaps the Minister with the money from ITI. I guess for argument’s sake today I’ll ask the Minister of ITI some questions about hydro development in the Northwest Territories.

I spoke in my Member’s statement of the Taltson expansion and the need and requirement for a comprehensive hydro strategy in the Northwest Territories to address our potential in that area. I’d like to ask the Minister of ITI : who is doing this strategy, and will it include consultation with aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories?

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

Ramsay. The

Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Hon. Bob McLeod .

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We will be seeking

expressions of interest and consulting with all stakeholders and aboriginal governments this year.

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I’m wondering if the aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories are going to be full partners in this comprehensive hydro strategy the government’s developing.

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

As we outlined in our 2007 NWT Energy Plan, hydro development is clearly the most promising renewable energy opportunity available in the Northwest Territories. In order to involve aboriginal governments and aboriginal partners as we’ve done in the North Slave and South Slave, we’ll need to have a comprehensive hydro strategy that would quantify the resources available, identify the opportunities and the challenges of development, and also create a long-term vision for sustainable hydroelectric development in the Northwest Territories.

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Given the great potential that hydro holds here in the Northwest Territories, I’m wondering if the Minister can comment on how many persons we’ve hired over the past five years who have any level of experience or expertise in the area of hydro development.

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We do have an energy-planning division, and we rely on expertise from the NWT Power Corporation. We have worked with some eminent experts, such as Peter Lougheed. We have gone forward with an expression of interest from engineers and hydro specialists so that we can determine what kind of expertise is available out there, because we realize we will need assistance to go further with this.

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr.

McLeod. Final

supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Again

getting back to my Member’s Statement from earlier, I spoke of the government hiring in excess of 70 positions having to deal solely with the Mackenzie Gas Project. Given the potential that hydro has here in the Northwest Territories, I find there is a great discrepancy between the weight the government has put in the area of hydro and the weight it’s put on the Mackenzie Gas Project. I’m wondering — and maybe the Minister could respond to this question: what is the strategy for trying to get some expertise and experience in-house?

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We are developing a hydro strategy. Part of what we expect to determine is how much support there is for hydro in the Northwest Territories. We do have demonstrated support in the North Slave and South Slave with the Deze Corporation, and we have the Sahdae Corporation

and the Sahtu in Deline. In previous

consultations, the public response hasn’t been wholeheartedly in support of hydro. Once we develop our hydro strategy and determine the areas that would be available for development, then we can determine the level of resources we need to support ongoing hydro development in the Northwest Territories.

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Question 314-16(2) Development Of An NWT Hydro Strategy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister McLeod. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes ., Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 315-16(2) Location Of The Aurora Research Institute

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question today to Minister Lafferty , the Minister of ECE, and Aurora College. I’d like to ask the Minister if his department or Aurora College was contacted in any way to help to identify a location for the Arctic Institute.

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Question 315-16(2) Location Of The Aurora Research Institute

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Education, culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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