Debates of March 23rd, 2010

This is page numbers 4657 - 4718 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was project .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 13-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Minister’s Statement 14-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge – Fiscal Implications

Minister’s Statement 15-16(5): Ministers Absent From The House

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Strengthening Aboriginal Languages

Timely Response To Constituents’ Questions

Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

GNWT Referral Of Caribou Management Question To The Supreme Court

Mackenzie Gas Project

Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Territorial Transportation Infrastructure Requirements

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Wait Times To See Medical Specialists In The NWT

Mackenzie Gas Project

Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

GNWT Referral Of Caribou Management Question To The Supreme Court

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Return To Written Question 1-16(5): Direct Appointments To Staff Positions

Tabled Document 8-16(5): Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures)

Tabled Document 9-16(5): Direct Appointments, April 2008 - March 2009, And April 2009 - February 2010

Tabled Document 10-16(5): Article: Bridge Design And Engineering

Tabled Document 11-16(5): Premier's Correspondence, March 4, 2010, On Government's Request To Reconvene The House March 23, 2010

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Extension Of Sitting Hours To Conclude Td 8-16(5), Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures)

Seek A 10-Year Temporary Increase To The Territorial Borrowing Authority Limit

Concurrence Of Tabled Document 8-16(5), Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures)

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:40 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Colleagues, notwithstanding the extended adjournment of the House to May 11, 2010, I was asked by the Premier , on behalf of the Executive Council, to convene a sitting of this House to commence today, Tuesday, March 23, 2010. The Premier advised me in a letter dated March 4, 2010, that the government was requesting this sitting of the Assembly to allow for the consideration of important financial matters which must be dealt with prior to the May 11th sitting.

Our rules do not specifically address the recalling of the House during an adjournment, so I turned to the House of Commons Procedures and Practices, Second Edition, 2009, for direction. Accordingly, Members, I sent a message to each of you advising the request and asked any Members who objected or who were unable to attend this sitting to contact me. I did not hear from any Members who objected or were unable to attend. I then advised the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, in a letter dated March 8, 2010, that I would be convening a sitting of this Legislative Assembly at 1:30 p.m. on March 23, 2010.

I also advised the Clerk that the purpose of the sitting was to consider a supplementary appropriation bill. At the appropriate time, colleagues, I will table the letter which was received from the Premier , on behalf of the Executive Council, concerning this recall.

Colleagues, it is now my duty to advise the House that I have received the following message from the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories and it reads:

Dear Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories the passage of Supplementary Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2010-2011, during the Fifth Session of the 16th Legislative Assembly. Yours truly, Anthony W.J. Whitford, Commissioner.

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Minister’s Statement 13-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Ministers’ Statements

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide Members and the public with an update on the status of construction on the Deh Cho Bridge Project.

This project has had its share of challenges, but these challenges have been effectively addressed. As a result, I am pleased to note that the project is now 50 percent complete, with the recent completion of the foundation work. The bridge contractor, Ruskin Construction, has completed installing the pier bents and is now in the process of removing the temporary bridge. The bridge project is now “out of the water,” leaving behind the highest risk component of the entire project.

We have a reviewed and approved design of the bridge superstructure. This cable-stayed bridge, which has been designed to accommodate barging traffic on the river, will be impressive once constructed. It will provide a clearance of 23 metres for river traffic, with towers that will reach over 45 metres in the air. The new design is also more conventional, simpler to construct and at a more reasonable price. The new design will ensure that the bridge will serve us well for its entire expected lifespan of 75 years.

This project is on track for completion by November of 2011, one year later than originally planned. We now have a general contractor, Ruskin Construction, who has teamed up with capable subcontractors to complete the bridge construction over the next 20 months. Work on the bridge superstructure is already underway, with the purchase of the steel and the production of the shop drawings for fabrication of the truss and deck. This summer the contractor will complete the construction of the abutments for both approaches, and this fall the contractor will begin to launch the truss itself.

We also have a new project management team in place, led by Associated Engineering. This team is already on site working to ensure an orderly transition for engineering oversight of the construction.

The Government of the Northwest Territories and our partner, the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, have risen above the challenges with which we have been presented. I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the community of Fort Providence for their dream of constructing this bridge. Without their determination it is doubtful that this project would be entering the final phase of construction. While there have been challenges on this project, we all look forward to the economic development opportunities that will come from the bridge. I am optimistic that we can successfully define a new partnership arrangement with the community as we move forward.

The benefits of construction of this bridge have been outlined on many occasions in the past. It was these benefits that resulted in the support for proceeding with this project from my colleagues in this House and I thank you for that support. These benefits include all-weather road access to and from the North Slave region 24 hours per day, 365 days of the year. The bridge will result in economic benefits to the NWT from more efficient trucking operations and more reliability in deliveries for businesses.

More competition can also be expected as the risks associated with freight transportation over a ferry and ice crossing system is reduced. And let us not forget the environmental and safety risks. The risk of fuel spills will be substantially reduced once a permanent bridge is in place. Idling vehicles waiting for the ferry will also be a thing of the past. The need for approximately half a million litres of fuel currently being used by the Merv Hardie will be eliminated.

We are looking to the future of the Deh Cho Bridge Project with a great deal of confidence. A key piece of infrastructure will be put in place without sacrificing the financial future of the NWT. The completion of the bridge will be a significant achievement for the government and people of the Northwest Territories. In less than two years this will be a reality.

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Minister’s Statement 13-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 14-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge – Fiscal Implications

Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to inform Members and NWT residents about the fiscal implications of the recent developments surrounding the Deh Cho Bridge Project.

Later today I will be tabling a supplementary appropriation estimates that will request the necessary authority for the GNWT to assume and administer the assets of the Deh Cho Bridge Project. The GNWT is also taking steps to assume the debt of the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, totalling $165 million.

First, I want to assure Members and the public that assuming responsibility for the Deh Cho Bridge Project will not change the GNWT’s fiscal situation or the GNWT’s ability to pay for programs and services. The GNWT has always stood behind the project and is already committed to the payments needed to service this debt. Payments to meet the interest and principal obligations have been planned for and represent less than 1 percent of GNWT revenues. The bridge will be financed by the savings from the elimination of the current ferry and ice bridge operations and a toll on commercial vehicles crossing the bridge.

The need for a GNWT contribution of approximately $2 million per year has also been planned for and factored into the costs.

Second, the request for appropriation authority is not a request for additional money for the bridge project. The projected cost of the project will be met from the $165 million already committed by the lenders plus the $15 million approved by the Legislative Assembly in February. The legislation we will be introducing will allow the funds to flow through the GNWT and be spent in accordance with the Financial Administration Act.

Third, assuming the project debt will not require the GNWT to take drastic fiscal measures to avoid hitting the debt wall.

With over $300 million in unused borrowing room as of April 1, 2010, taking on the $165 million debt associated with the project will not immediately cause the GNWT to exceed its borrowing limit. More importantly, federal Finance Minister Flaherty has agreed to work with us to accommodate the possibility that our medium-term borrowing needs could exceed the current limit by temporarily adjusting the borrowing limit.

We are currently in discussions with Minister Flaherty on the specifics of this accommodation. Minister Flaherty is taking steps to seek the appropriate federal Cabinet approvals for this temporary adjustment well before the GNWT could reach our current borrowing limit.

This accommodation will give us the room to implement the fiscal strategy already set out in the budget presented in January. One that will, through tight control over spending and a return to historical levels of capital investment, return to a sustainable fiscal path over the medium term.

We do not expect our Aa1 credit rating will be affected by assuming the debt. Moody’s Investors

Service has already factored our obligation to support the debt into our credit assessments.

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure those listening today that this government is committed to the Deh Cho Bridge Project. We will continue to ensure the project is completed in a fiscally responsible manner. We have taken, and will continue to take, the measures needed to make this important NWT infrastructure project a success. Thank you.

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Minister’s Statement 14-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge – Fiscal Implications

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 15-16(5): Ministers Absent From The House

Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Robert C. McLeod will be absent from the House today to attend the Northern Housing Forum in Inuvik.

I also wish to advise Members that the Honourable Michael Miltenberger will be absent from the House for the remainder of the week to attend to a personal family matter. Thank you.

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Minister’s Statement 15-16(5): Ministers Absent From The House

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This week Members have been called back to consider legislation to establish the necessary authority that will provide for the GNWT to administer the completion of the Deh Cho Bridge. I spoke in the House in February to point out that Nahendeh people don’t want to see any more over-expenditures on this project. As taxpayers, they do not want to be left to pay for the cost overruns. I trust that, as Minister Michael McLeod advised in response to my questions in February, over-expenditures will eventually be offset by the revenues collected by toll fees.

Mr. Speaker, the vision we have for the Deh Cho Bridge is partly a symbolic one. The bridge is a link to the rest of Canada, and if we build a bridge across the Mackenzie, my vision is an improved highway to the rest of the Deh Cho and the Nahendeh will come.

I do support the government’s recent decision to take over the project and see it to completion. I have been asked to be vigilant over our management of the Deh Cho Bridge. My residents do want to see its completion, but do not want to

see any more delays and increased costs paid by our tax dollars.

Minister McLeod earlier advised that the government was looking at providing signage on the highway and a website to keep the public informed of the progress on the bridge construction. I believe that this will be of interest to NWT residents and I look forward to seeing Northerners being informed on this major project. It is important that the remainder of the project goes smoothly in order to keep costs of both construction and borrowing in line. Residents have never been asked to carry the cost of this bridge, and they are not prepared to do so, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi cho.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, today I wish to talk about elders in Fort Resolution and Lutselk'e that have their adult children and adult grandchildren living with them. In a lot of cases these children are providing a service to the elders in the area of health care, home care and other basic services elders are no longer able to do.

Mr. Speaker, because of the support provided by the elders’ grandchildren and children, it essentially absolves the GNWT of their responsibilities. Many of these services, even things as simple as taking medication, are menial but cannot be done by the elder. Mr. Speaker, the costs associated with elders living at home to the GNWT can be fairly substantial. However, many of these costs can be averted by making it feasible for the adult children or grandchild to live with the elder.

Mr. Speaker, currently the GNWT has policies insofar as fuel subsidies, land leases and land tax exemptions for elders based on household income. If a live-in child has any sort of income at all, the elder will lose their fuel subsidy or will lose their lease or tax exemption.

Mr. Speaker, this simply does not work in Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e. With employment rates hovering around 40 percent in these communities, Mr. Speaker, a person cannot afford to refuse work that is available. But in doing so, the elder is at risk of losing their government support.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of simple real scenarios that can happen where the live-in adult or adult child or grandchild takes on some sort of short-term employment. They do this to better their situation and includes bettering the situation of an elder as well. However, Mr. Speaker, doing this

negatively impacts the GNWT benefits of the elder and is something that needs to be reviewed.

Mr. Speaker, with the current policies, the GNWT seems to promote a lower standard of living for elders in their own homes. Mr. Speaker, later today I will ask questions of the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment as it pertains to the seniors programs. Thank you.

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Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My colleagues, especially the Premier and Minister of Transportation , are well aware of my questions of the Deh Cho Bridge Project at every turn since becoming a Member of this House in 2003. Mr. Speaker, as much as it might pain some people in this building, I am going to continue to question the project over the course of this special sitting of the House.

Mr. Speaker, during this sitting, I will be seeking clarification on a number of issues. The first is what exactly we have committed to as a government with Ruskin for the remaining work on the project. I want to know specifically when the contracts were signed and by whom they were signed. When were milestones reached on negotiations for the notice to award and the intent to award and the notice to proceed? What currently is the Government of the Northwest Territories’ legal authority over these contracts and can we avoid taking on the responsibility that these contracts entail?

Mr. Speaker, my belief is we continue to compound bad decisions with more bad decisions. If we are to take this project on lock, stock and barrel, then work should be stopped on this project. A complete and thorough audit has to be done of the work performed by the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation and contractors who have worked on this project. Before we rush into spending almost $100 million more, should we not take complete stock of where we have been and get assurances that the construction to date is of a quality and standard that would warrant us spending additional money? This seems only logical to me.

Why then have we rushed into and negotiated a sole-source contract when we know full well that others would have submitted bids? If we went to tender, perhaps even Ruskin may have gotten the bid.

Don’t we have an obligation to the taxpayers and the public to manage the public purse? I am left wondering why was the government so intent on a sole-source deal with Ruskin. It would seem to me that perhaps it was the easy way out. Ruskin was owed money. They are familiar with the project and

they know, Mr. Speaker, in which closets the skeletons are hung. The government would not have to answer questions from a new contractor.

Mr. Speaker, I have not wavered from my belief that the Deh Cho Bridge Project has got to be seen through to its completion. Given the history of the project, I just want to make sure that good…

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Ramsay , your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I just want to make sure that good sound decisions are being made on this project. I have always believed that if you are going to do anything, you have to make sure that you are doing it right. Mr. Speaker, this is something that I live by and I am going to hold the government to account on this project. Thank you.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Strengthening Aboriginal Languages

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. In honour of Aboriginal Languages Month I raise a few issues regarding not just a preservation but the growth and development in youth of aboriginal languages.

I met recently with two of my constituents and the Minister of ECE . The Minister reacted very positively to suggestions that are now being considered for action. The first major issue is the timely ability to get training of professional interpreters and translators. An interpreter/translator course is offered by Aurora College, but only two course credits are available each year. Because the full course complement is 20 credits, 10 years are needed to take all the necessary courses to achieve certification. This is obviously unworkable.

Second is the lack of evaluators with certification to administer certification tests and grant the formal interpreter/translator credential. This problem has been highlighted for more than 10 years in successive aboriginal language studies and reports, but no action has been taken to ensure that once people get the necessary education they can go on to be granted certification.

Combine the two factors, a 10-year course timetable and no ability to certify the students at the end of 10 years, and we are obviously going to lose a lot of excellent candidates who either won’t bother starting a 10-year process, leave at some point over the decade of courses, or never get the certification needed for good jobs.

Some committed people still go into language instruction but they don’t get the good pay that only goes to those with credentials; credentials they can’t get for lack of a tester. Ultimately, programming suffers because people can’t get the training or the certificate.

Another issue is the allocation and distribution of funding for local language development programming. Effective relevant language programs must be delivered at the individual community level to take advantage of local elders who are the best speakers, to ensure the nuances of the local dialect are honoured and because the best programming will be based in the local culture. Currently, funding is distributed on a regional basis for redistribution to individual communities. There have been problems with the redistribution coming too late in the fiscal year to be used. There has even been considerable lapsed funding.

Because the program is ultimately delivered at the community level, we need to look at how the department can put the funds directly in the hands of the communities at the beginning of each fiscal year so we get the best value from the scant funds available.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Strengthening Aboriginal Languages

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Briefly, at our recent meeting the Minister took these issues, as I say, very seriously and committed to see how this situation can be improved. I’m grateful for this commitment and look forward to his proposals. Let’s all look at what’s working and what isn’t in our aboriginal language support programs and improve where needed. I look forward to reports of good progress on these issues. Mahsi.

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Strengthening Aboriginal Languages

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Timely Response To Constituents’ Questions

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think NWT residents are, by and large, a patient lot. It’s not unusual for me to be contacted by a constituent, and with their first breath be advised that they’re not in the habit of contacting an MLA but that they are doing so because they have been pushed far beyond their normal level of patience and understanding. So when this situation occurs, when an individual does contact us and tells us it’s not their normal behaviour, I believe they deserve a reply, and quickly.

But such was not the case for one of my constituents, a constituent who e-mailed a concern to the Minister of Health and Social Services and copied me on the message. As the request was to

the Minister, I replied to the constituent and said I would wait for the Minster’s reply and after that provide my comments on the concern to him.

Today, Mr. Speaker, some 18 months later, the constituent has never heard from the Minister, the person to whom the e-mail was addressed. Nor has he heard from anyone at the Department of Health and Social services. To be fair, he was contacted by the hospital regarding some of the specifics of his concern, but there was no response to any of the policy questions or concerns in his e-mail.

That is totally unacceptable, Mr. Speaker. Do our residents mean so little to Ministers that they can’t even send a reply that says I have your e-mail, I will look into it? Surely we have enough staff within the GNWT that someone could be tasked with the job of a reply to each and every inquiry that comes to us.

Mr. Speaker, the government and its employees are a public entity and that means responsible to the public, those people who gave us our jobs. Our staff are identified as a public service and they should be providing service to the residents of the NWT.

According to Webster’s dictionary, the definition of service is: “work done for others,” or “the act of giving assistance to another,” or “friendly help.” I especially like that last one. My constituent certainly did not get service as a result of his contact with this government, no matter which of those

definitions you choose to use. I can only hope that his experience is not the norm, because if it is the norm, Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder that the public’s confidence in this government is shattered and in pieces. I will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services later on.

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Timely Response To Constituents’ Questions

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There has been a significant amount of discussion regarding the Taltson Hydro Expansion Project over the last couple of months. My colleague Mr. Bromley made a clear, concise and reasonable statement on March 3, 2010, encouraging this government to take control of its utilities, the utilities it owns, and start building for the future. I couldn’t agree more.

There is merit in the Taltson hydro expansion. The project will provide some short-term economic stimuli during the construction and reduce the burning of diesel in mines and hopefully extend mine life or open up new mining opportunities throughout the North Slave geological region.

As a business and lead in the expansion project, Deze Energy’s primary focus is to make money and provide a return to their stakeholders. From a business and profit perspective, there is no question that the route proposed by Deze Energy to the east of Great Slave Lake is definitely the best route for them and their profit margin. However, constructing transmission lines through a new federal park, one of the most beautiful places on Earth and an important traditional location for many aboriginal people from the area, with no clear or concise long-term plan for the sake of short-term profit seems counterproductive to the best interests of the people of the Northwest Territories.

As a government we must think beyond the economic benefits of one company. We must do what is right, what is just, and what is for the public good. As the partners move forward with the expansion, the government, in particular the Premier , must provide leadership to Deze through the NWT Power and NWT Hydro corporations so that the best interests of the people of the Northwest Territories can be taken into consideration and acted upon.

The Premier must ensure that a long-term strategy which addresses the advantages of NWT grids is taken into consideration. The Premier must ensure that redundancies in the provision of electricity through the NWT are taken into consideration. The Premier must ensure that the benefits to the other communities and our residents who live there are taken into consideration. There are alternate routes worth considering which address all of these potential advantages and are in the best interest of the people that we serve.

Unfortunately, these routes may cost a bit more money in the short term and cut into Deze’s profits. It won’t eliminate their profits, just decrease them a bit. These routes, however, will offer significant long-term benefits to the people of the Northwest Territories without losing any of the practical opportunities presented by the eastern route, such as the creation of short-term employment and the support and reduction of greenhouse gases.

The Premier and Cabinet must do what is right, just, and for the public good, not the good of one company and their bottom line. This government must take control of our utilities...

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Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Abernethy , your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

The Premier and Cabinet must do what is right, just, and for the public good, not the good of one company and their bottom line. This government must take control of our utilities

and start building for the future. I will be asking the Premier questions at the appropriate time.

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Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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GNWT Referral Of Caribou Management Question To The Supreme Court

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The decision to refer the question of the GNWT’s legal right to impose restrictions on the aboriginal people from the harvesting of caribou is not a good sign of consensus government. Regular Members should have been involved in the decision to refer this matter to the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. The legal right of the government to ban aboriginal people from caribou harvesting is a major question. The result of the court hearing could have serious implications not only for the caribou hunt but for the future discussions regarding aboriginal rights and how decisions are made in the Northwest Territories.

Referral to the Supreme Court is extremely rare. There has only been one other incident in the past 15 years in which the Minister of Justice referred to the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. The implications of that referral had much less direct impact on the people of the Northwest Territories.

Almost one year ago the Members of the Legislative Assembly reaffirmed our commitment to the principles of consensus government. We agreed, “except under extraordinary circumstances, Members of the Legislative Assembly should be aware of and have the opportunity to discuss significant announcements, changes, consultations or initiatives before they are released to the public or introduced into the Legislative Assembly.” Were these principles worth the paper they were written on?

The decision to refer the question about the hunting ban to the Supreme Court should have been discussed with the committee whether the referral to the Supreme Court was the best way to proceed. ENR has since reached an agreement with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation and are working on the details for the community hunt to take place soon. Chief Sangris has also agreed that the Yellowknives Dene First Nation and ENR need to work together on a long-term management plan for the Bathurst caribou.

The questions surrounding the ban on the caribou harvesting are controversial and divisive. We must deal with the issue with as much transparency as possible so that our people have the confidence in their leaders and that we are truly acting in the best interests of the people in the Northwest Territories.

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GNWT Referral Of Caribou Management Question To The Supreme Court

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Mackenzie Gas Project

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member’s statement today is in regard to the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Project. Recently the Government of the Northwest Territories Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment filed comments with the National Energy Board on recommendations by the Joint Review Panel. Because the National Energy Board ultimately has the final decision on making further developments to the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Project, these comments are very important and must be given the highest priority.

Many businesses along the corridor and northern regions have invested with hope that this would have shovels in the ground by now. That is why the government must continue to work with local governments and aboriginal governments, and especially the federal government, to make this project happen. Considering it is the most important project to the Northwest Territories, this government must be front and centre while promoting this project as well as timelines and deliverables with all parties including the applicants and stakeholders and companies.

We cannot allow another four years to pass. This government must work with the federal government and the ministerial offices such as Tony Clement, Minister Chuck Strahl of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, and the Minister of the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency to ensure the project is getting the prioritization that it deserves. These offices must be doing more with this government. They must work with them to ensure this project happens. Surely if we sit another four years, that would not only be a shame but an international embarrassment.

In addition, I urge this government to involve MLAs up and down the valley, community leaders and corporate leaders to push forward. This group needs to truly be inclusive. This government must devote the resources and the attention of this megaproject that it deserves. Without a commitment, we just don’t look very serious.

Local regional governments are passionate about this project. They are most knowledgeable about the issues and can generate the community-based support. I will have questions for the Minister of ITI at the appropriate time.

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Mackenzie Gas Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I want to use my Member’s statement to talk about the Medical Travel Policy in relation to people requiring transplants. As I’ve raised on a number of occasions, there needs to be a clearly defined policy with a specific aim to assistance for people who go through the medical transplant process. We need a policy that takes into consideration the real and much needed support of family members who should be there through this difficult time.

I want to now paint a picture of how disappointing the present Medical Travel Policy is and, in my view, how it is very insensitive at the least. Imagine you or a family member or friend, or even just someone you know, who has a two-year old son whose heart was removed just three short weeks ago. As in this case, those three short weeks ago that child’s mother has been relentlessly sitting by the side of that child every waking moment, leaving only to get minimal sleep; assuming that your body will allow you to get any sleep throughout this ordeal. Now imagine, because of our Medical Travel Policy, you have to leave the remainder of your support, your loved ones, back home here in the North.

What is this story about? Such as this case, a husband, another son who is six, and a daughter who is four are left behind to cope. Imagine what it must be like being alone in a hospital with your two-year-old child with no heart waiting for a transplant while the other parent is left home tending to your other children, as in this story I am attempting to illustrate.

The present territorial Medical Travel Policy, our Medical Travel Policy, the Medical Travel Policy overseen by the Health Minister , does not contemplate this challenge of having one parent only sent out for what is a truly unknown amount of time without any visits from their immediate family, that father, the six-year-old older brother, or even the four-year-older sister.

Our present Medical Travel Policy does not contemplate the challenge of burn out by the parent at the hospital and, therefore, does not consider respite of any kind. I ask: does this mother not deserve a break? Does this mother not need the direct support of her family? Does this child in the hospital not need to see his older brother or sister for strength to fight on? I think so. For this mother to receive a much needed break, as the present policy dictates, she would have to leave on her own accord and leave her son unattended, which is certainly not right.

Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

So why are we not a territory of compassion that takes circumstances and fairly weighs them with the empathy and understanding that needs to be taken into consideration?

So to close my statement with one final matter that needs to be put into perspective -- and most certainly, God forbid, that this day ever does come -- however, if that dark day and disappointing moment had to come where this child, a two-year-old smiling and wonderful little boy named Jonas, had to have his machines turned off, our Medical Travel Policy wouldn’t unite this family one last time.

It would leave that mother alone in the room as the machines went silent; it would leave the father here in Yellowknife pacing hopelessly and helplessly; and leave the other two children scarred without being able to say goodbye as their little brother took his final breath. Mr. Speaker, this two-year-old boy needs the support that we can give, and I certainly believe our government can do better. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Territorial Transportation Infrastructure Requirements

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the need for infrastructure is needed throughout the Northwest Territories and other regions. Mr. Speaker, this week we’ll be talking about the Deh Cho Bridge. Mr. Speaker, there’s a need for bridges in other regions and the regions I represent, from the Peel River Bridge, which has been discussed in this House, to the Liard Bridge and the Bear River Bridge, which also has been discussed in this House.

Mr. Speaker, this week what happens to the Deh Cho Bridge will set the precedent for the rest of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, as communities and community ownership is a critical component to land claim negotiations, regional claim settlements, and, more importantly, the benefit of the communities that will be impacted by these major developments.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important to realize that as Northerners and as people in the North, we expect to receive the majority of the benefits that flow from these projects and have them built by northern companies and northern businesses and also ensure that employment opportunities are arrived at for the residents of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, infrastructure is key to the future development of the Northwest Territories, and what happens this week with the Deh Cho Bridge, again, will set the precedent for future developments.

I know I’m repeating myself, Mr. Speaker, but sometimes you have to do that to get the word across. We have a perfect opportunity for the Department of Transportation to build the capacity that’s needed to look at these other projects throughout the Northwest Territories and improve the public infrastructure from the Mackenzie Highway north of Wrigley to Tuktoyaktuk and connecting our communities to year-round access as we are trying to achieve here with the Deh Cho Bridge.

Mr. Speaker, I realize that things have changed, but hopefully it’s a change for the better. Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the debate this week, but I would like to point out to the Government of the Northwest Territories to not lose sight of those other infrastructure needs throughout the Northwest Territories and bridges that are needed in other regions. Mahsi.

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Territorial Transportation Infrastructure Requirements

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just want to make a few statements about this sitting of the Legislature and why we are back here. The public very well knows that we had our spring budget session, which lasted almost six weeks, and towards the end of that session information and circumstances came to light that required this government to make the decisions with respect to the Deh Cho Bridge Project.

Mr. Speaker, rather than waiting until the May sitting of the Legislature, by which time the government would have had to expend funds through special warrants and bring forward an appropriation bill at that time in May, it was the feeling of the majority of Members that we should call a special sitting of the Legislature in order to again be able to share with the public and for the government to share with Members more information and an update on this project as it goes forward.

Mr. Speaker, I supported that position that the government took, and I think this is a better way of doing things. Mr. Speaker, the Deh Cho Bridge is a project that came into the care and keeping and mandate of this government by a very strange means, something that this government is not normally accustomed to using in order to acquire capital infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, I think it has been proven that it has been a difficult road and I hope a learning road for this government, but the fact of the matter is that now we have a bridge across the Mackenzie River at Fort Providence which is half built and we need to move forward. People need to understand, too, that we are not

exactly spending $165 million. What we are doing is taking on to our balance sheet, on to our books as a government, a debt for $165 million. In fact, this project is being financed by a lender.

Mr. Speaker, I guess the only... Well, one of the things going forward, whether you agree with this project or not, is something that’s unique about this project is the fact that it does have the ability to generate revenue and be self-financing. So it is a piece of infrastructure which I hope will serve the people of the North for very many years. It is unique. I hope we’ve learned good lessons from it and we will continue to discuss the details of this during this session going forward. Thank you.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have two people in the gallery I’d like to recognize. First, I have Mr. Chris Bassi. He’ s the father of our very well-known assistant deputy minister, Sheila Bassi-Kellett. Mr. Bassi is a retired bridge engineer, of some note, and he finds the discussion today very interesting. The second person I’d like to introduce today is Mr. Neils Konge. He’s the father of young Jonas, the person I was talking about in my Member’s statement, and his son is waiting in Edmonton for a heart transplant. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize Mr. Dick Abernethy, father of my colleague here and resident of Weledeh. Welcome, Dick.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize Mr. Michael Ganley, the editor for Up Here Business magazine.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Welcome to all our visitors in the gallery today. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I talked about my concerns with the Medical Travel Policy. To be very specific, we don’t have a policy that works with the families that help them go through the medical transplant process, and the policy does not support parents beyond the initial one that travels down.

Mr. Speaker, my question directly to the Minister of Health and Social Services is: how does she see the present Medical Travel Policy accommodating the extended family that needs to be there through trying times such as this? Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The NWT has one of the most generous medical travel policies for our residents and families. It’s been in existence for many years. We do not distinguish by condition. We do allow for one medical escort for medical purpose or for language purpose and for elders who are over 60.

Mr. Speaker, routinely, daily, I do get requests, for whatever reason, whether it be elderly or medically fragile infant or cancer patients or all kinds of reasons why many members want to have access to medical travel, but it is not possible, it is not allowed. We are allowed one medical escort for each patient. Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, it was probably very stingingly obvious in my Member’s statement, I believe, that a family should have access to their children throughout such a difficult time. I am asking the Minister what would stop her from developing a medical travel transplant policy that could reflect family values to ensure that there is family support ongoing through this type of process by allowing the extended family such as the other parent and possibly even the children from travelling down from time to time to provide much needed support through this medical process. Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, as the Member knows, we have a lot of services in the NWT, but there are many that we do not. Our residents have to be able to travel outside of the NWT to obtain the services they need. Where that is an insured service, we do provide a medical escort. We do not distinguish by disease. We provide medical travel for all services that are covered on the health insurance and health services under the Canada Health Act, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, access families, we do not provide 100 percent of coverage for travel. Families do have to bear some costs in circumstances where their family is ill. Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, the Minister did not answer the question. What stops the Department of Health and Social Services from creating a policy in the medical travel directive that recognizes respite and uniting families through such difficult processes? What would stop the Minister from creating a policy to recognize these challenges that wouldn’t probably be needed very often? Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, we have a medical policy that applies to all conditions whether it be cancer, transplant, premature baby who needs to be in an incubator, all kinds of medical procedures, and they work. I don’t think we want to be looking at creating 100 different policies depending on the specified condition that would require putting values on medical procedures that our residents need. Our policy is that we will provide medical travel per resident for one medical escort who needs to be with the patient. Mr. Speaker, that works and it is one of the best in the country. Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not suggesting that we create a medical travel policy because someone is flying down and they are getting a needle in their shoulder and we have to send the whole family to Edmonton to make sure that they feel comfortable. Mr. Speaker, I am talking about a situation whether it be this particular case or similar cases

whereas these are truly life and death days. Every day is an important day. Every day is certainly a blessing. Mr. Speaker, when it comes to urgent situations as I am trying to describe in this situation, what is stopping the Minister from demonstrating some compassion that shows that we will keep a family support high and united regularly by developing a policy that recognizes this? Thank you.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I believe all the Members in the House and the government recognizes and understands that there are many medical conditions that are serious, that are trying and it is about life and death, whether it is cancer, whether it is heart attack, you name it. There are so many procedures that our residents need on a day-to-day basis that our people will tell you that are pressing to them whether it is breast cancer, colorectal cancer, somebody who is in a car accident. We could go on and on. We have a general policy that allows our residents to access those services where it is necessary and then we provide financial support for a medical escort. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 55-16(5): Application Of GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Premier with regard to the Deh Cho Bridge Project. We are approaching our last year of the 16th Assembly. Here we are

proposing to take on a considerable amount of debt for the Deh Cho Bridge Project. I am wondering what are the implications and the consequences to the 17th Assembly of carrying this much debt on to

their backs in the future. Thank you.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of the Deh Cho Bridge Project, and assuming the debt has come to this session for that purpose, is one where we had to initiate additional discussions with the federal government to work with us around our borrowing limit. With that in place, there will be no further impact on this government or the next government. Of course, the next government will have to set its own fiscal strategy as to how it goes about investing and spending of the dollars that are available. Thank you.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure I quite buy that. I am just wondering if we would have been able to take on a project like this if we had already been carrying this much debt and does that not get through to the Premier in terms of what some of the possible limitations he might consider as consequences of this project.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, the whole Deh Cho Bridge Project, the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, that agreement that was signed, all contemplated of trying to have this debt outside of our accounting structures within the abilities that we have already set or the borrowing limit set by the federal government. The debt limit was taken into consideration in trying to come up with ways of trying to get the large infrastructure projects of this nature off the ground. That is why this process was taken.

Previous governments have looked at the P3 initiative as well. Unfortunately, as we find ourselves now, many of the pieces that were laid before us and put in place by a previous Assembly, we have had to go in and restructure and take over the control of that. By taking control of that, we will have to assume that debt. That will affect future governments in the sense of available debt and the total debt limit that is available for borrowing of future governments. Thank you.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the Premier appreciates or is a little more to it than he inferred in his first response there. I think there is a huge implication of carrying this much debt through messing up as we have done.

I have heard the government say, Mr. Speaker, that we are going to service this debt no problem, with less than 1 percent of our revenues and so on. Does that mean that we are going to continue to pay this debt down that we are now carrying on our books at this low rate so that we are going to be carrying the debt for 35 years as we slowly pay it down and be restricted in what we can take on, the flexibility we have fiscally for a long period of time? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, before I get into the financial arrangements made by the lenders and the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, with input from quite a number of sources, let’s be clear. There was a project put in place by a previous government that had a concession agreement that flowed into this government. The Deh Cho Bridge Act was put in place even prior to that. Members may throw about the words “messed up” and so on. The simple fact is that we have had to step in because of contractor issues, because of capacity issues of this project.

Now, if all of the pieces fell together as they were initially identified, we would have Members standing up when the ribbon cutting ceremony happened, talking about the best thing the Government of the Northwest Territories ever got into. Unfortunately, we didn’t get there. We as the Government of the Northwest Territories have had to now step in, as this process clearly identifies, of having to assume that debt.

By assuming the debt and by looking at what we have to face as the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Member is correct; there are future, in a sense, implications about available borrowing room. Every government has to weigh that if they will borrow for projects. Our Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger , laid out in his budget process the fiscal strategy of going back to a more typical capital program with the Government of the Northwest Territories and that would be $75 million on an annual basis.

So as we go forward on this project we do have to look at the impacts of such an agreement, what they mean to us going forward, what it means in this environment, ensuring that we do not burden the future governments with the decisions we have.

As we’ve had to step into this project, the financing agreement that’s been put in place by the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation with the lenders has a 35-year payment plan to it, if that’s the proper terminology to use. That plan can be paid out depending on, for example, the real bond market that’s out there and how much of a penalty that’s potentially put on to that payout. There are going to have to be some

things that we’ll have to look at. Right now we would be assuming or making huge assumptions as to what future bonds may be.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I appreciate those comments from the Premier . I personally believe there are huge implications to the services and infrastructure that this government can and will be able to contemplate because of this. My last question is: what are the implications to the government if we decline this proposed appropriation bill for $165 million?

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

As Members are aware and as we have briefed Members, the need for this session is based on the lenders requesting the GNWT assume the debt. If we do not assume the debt, then there will be a make-whole clause that would kick in. There would be a penalty on top of the repayment of the debt. We would have a project that is out of the water but yet to be complete.

So it will cost additional monies on the Government of the Northwest Territories and without assuming this process and having the federal government work with us as they have committed to on debt relief, in future years we would have to do what some Members have talked about in our meetings about having to squeeze our belts and reduce our expenditures to afford this in future years. The steps we have taken provide us the necessary tools so that will not have to happen.

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Question 56-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Fiscal Implications

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have questions today for the Minister of Transportation . Again it gets back to the Deh Cho Bridge Project and the financial side of things. I want to ask the Minister of Transportation when exactly did the lenders turn the tap off on the project.

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Transportation , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m assuming by the “tap” the Member means the ability to draw down on the construction funding. We were formally notified by the lenders on March 1st that we would not be able to draw

down any further dollars. We informed the Members of the standing committee on March 2nd .

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Formally notified and reality are two different things. I’d like to ask the Minister when the money stopped flowing on this project and when the government first became aware that the construction account from the lending agency was in fact locked up. When did that happen?

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

The Member asked about when we were officially notified and I gave him that response. Our last drawdown was in December. We had informed Members that there was some concern that the lenders had issued a notice of default and it may result in complications with the project. Probably around the middle -- I don’t have an exact date -- of February we had some discussions with the lenders. At that time they indicated to us that there was going to be some ability to be flexible and officially we did not have anything in writing until March 1st . We informed the

members of standing committee on the 2nd .

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I’m just trying to make some sense of how this happens. The money gets turned off in December. The Minister comes before committee the last week of January and tells us everything on the project is going along relatively smoothly. Within two weeks of that meeting we’re informed that the government is looking for a $15 million supplementary appropriation from us and looking for our support for that to in effect loosen up the lenders and get the money flowing again. I’d like to ask the Minister when did the Minister exactly know that there was no money coming from the lenders. I know he says he was officially notified on March 1st ,

but did the department know back in December and why didn’t they tell us the last week of January? Don’t they have a duty to tell us?

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

First of all, we didn’t know in December. Our last drawdown through the process was in December. We share all our information with the Members, as the Member knows. We give them all the information. We’re not trying to hide anything. Officially we were told no more drawdowns in writing March 1st . We had

discussions with the lenders in February where they indicated to us that there was a notice of default and as a result we had further discussions about the ability of being flexible. They approved and agreed with us that they would be. However, in the following letter we were told that on March 1st and

we informed the Members on the 2nd . So we did as

soon as possible after being formally informed.

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously something happened to spook the lenders. I’d like to know if the Minister knows exactly what that was. We had the Minister come before us requesting that the government approve and the Members approve $15 million in a supplementary appropriation to get that money flowing from the lenders. That wasn’t the case. Obviously we are here this week looking at a supplementary appropriation for the full amount. I’d like to ask the Minister why that was and what happened to the lenders in between those two dates that they decided that us in good faith approving $15 million wasn’t enough.

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

by their independent engineer. We feel we met that deadline. We had three different engineering firms approve our design. We formally sent it to the lenders and they responded by saying that it wasn’t something that they were going to approve and were going to issue a notice of default. We had some discussions in February that there was going to be a notice. It did not indicate that the funding or the taps were turned off, as the Member has put it. We were formally told March 1st that we would not

be able to draw down. In fact, I don’t believe it was even a request for a drawdown that was rejected up to that point.

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Question 57-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today I talked about unofficial home care services provided by adult children and grandchildren who live with elders. In many of the small communities it’s quite common for elders to have their adult children and grandchildren living with them. The government needs to recognize and acknowledge and do all it can to support this important community situation.

I have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Will the Minister agree to review the current seniors fuel subsidy program and policy so that it properly takes into account the services provided by live-in family caregivers?

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. This particular area has seen some changes over time. We’ve increased the income threshold as well, household income, by $10,000. At the same time, through the transition period we’ve made some changes along the way with other programs as well. So we are receptive to making changes to our programming, overall programs that we have that are deliverable to the communities. This seniors home fuel subsidy is a very attractive subsidy program for seniors in the small communities especially.

I would state in the House that this is an area we continue to look at with individuals who are looking after their grandma or grandparents or parents. We are fully aware of it, but as it stands, it’s based on the household income. We are looking further into it on how we can have some less impact on the seniors themselves.

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

I thank the Minister for that response. Without changing the income requirements for the program, will the Minister direct his staff to revise the policy so that these adult children and grandchildren who live with elders can have all or some of their income exempt depending on how the department chooses to look at it? Some or all of their income exempt in lieu of the important elders’ care that these children are providing.

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Those are the areas that we are currently evaluating. We need to assess who those seniors are, how many individuals are living with them, and they are based on household income.

As I stated in the House on several occasions, some of those individuals are working at the mines. Some of those individuals take advantage of the system. We have to be very careful in the evaluation system. As long as it benefits the clientele, the seniors, we’ll do what we can to meet those needs of those individuals. We are looking into this even further within my department.

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Will the Minister commit to further working with the Minister responsible for Seniors with the specific mandate of looking at revising all of the seniors support programs?

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

We work as a cross-cultural departmental initiative where NWT Housing Corporation uses household income. The same for the Minister responsible for Seniors through her programming. Within the ECE subsidy programs it is based on household income. Those are the areas that we continue to improve our programming. Yes, I will continue to work with my two colleagues on this particular item.

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In that future work will the Minister agree to look at the seniors support programs holistically with the other Ministers and do what is feasible for the seniors and for the government and essentially all the residents of the NWT?

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

I was having a chat on the side with my colleague here. Definitely we are committed and I believe it was brought up some time ago that we need to look at the household income. We are committed to looking even further at expanding the role of the subsidy programs we deliver based on household income. So the Housing Corporation is also. We will look into this further.

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Question 58-16(5): Application Of GNWT Policies On Seniors Residing With Extended Family

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier . The NWT Hydro Corporation’s strategic plan promises a feasibility analysis and design of a potential electrical grid for the Northwest Territories. The Taltson expansion does not address this or support a long-term strategy focused on the NWT grid system or creating redundancy within the NWT electrical system. You would think that this analysis and design of a grid should logically occur prior to the Taltson expansion itself.

So could the Premier tell me how can this government support the expansion of Taltson if it avoids addressing this issue, which is one of the primary purposes that the NWT Hydro Corporation exists in the first place? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the NWT Hydro Strategy does set out the development of a grid over the long-term life of the Northwest Territories. This piece of our plan is based on the business case, a business model that sees revenue accruing to the partnership and to the Hydro Corporation. From there, the benefits then would flow in other areas, Mr.

Speaker, that would see, for example, the GDP of the Government of the Northwest Territories remain or grow because we’re able to supply electrical power to industry at a lower rate than is being done, so now because they have to build their own electricity generation as part of their scenarios of mine development and, as well, burn diesel and also add to the climate change concerns that we have. Thank you.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I was wondering if the Premier could tell me what business opportunity he’s talking about. I was under the impression that the whole business case of the Taltson expansion was based on selling power to diamond mines, of which I understand that the diamond mines haven’t signed any power purchasing agreements or anything like that. So who are these business opportunities and these new mining ventures that exist? Thank you.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, one of the things we have to realize and recall, even the previous decisions made by the mines because of the economic downturn was they shut down for a number of months because of the cost of running their operations, and that takes into fact the cost of running their facilities in a remote location. Our plan would provide for power at a cheaper rate, thereby expanding mine lives, for example, or allowing a new mine to be developed, because one of the things that the shareholders of a mining operation have to take into consideration is the overall cost of doing business in the Northwest Territories.

So as we look at those pieces, this process was put in place, Deze Corporation, a partnership that we have to sign off on as the Government of the Northwest Territories in the near future if we’re really going to make this go ahead, as well as have those partnership agreements and the power purchase agreements in place with the mines. So there are a number of key things that go ahead much like, for example, the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline.

There is a potential project, but the proponents have to decide if it actually goes after they’ve invested significant dollars through an environmental process to see if, in fact, it can proceed in a cost-effective manner. So the same thing applies to the Taltson. Thank you.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I think with something like the Taltson expansion we need to be thinking long term, we need to be thinking about the benefits to the people of the Northwest Territories, not just to the pocketbook of Deze which stands to make a lot of money from this if we go around the East Arm. There are other mining opportunities. There’s Avalon near Thor Lake, there are opportunities in Pine Point, and there’s also, hopefully someday if there aren’t already, opportunities in the North Slave Geological Province that can be accessed through alternate routes.

I want to know why we’re so bent on going with this around the East Arm route through a park, a brand new federal park, when there are all these other opportunities which will create more opportunities in the long run such as an opportunity to create some grids. It seems awfully short-sighted to go around the East Arm and ignore these other routes. I was wondering if the Premier could tell me a little bit more about why we’re so set on that one route.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, the alternate routes have been looked at by the Hydro Corporation and the Power Corp because through the environmental review they were asked for additional information. That was provided. This project will not work. We will not be able to sell energy to the mines for an acceptable rate. They will not sign power purchase agreements for a cost higher than they’re able to develop it for in today’s environment.

Adding approximately $100 million-plus to the project by going around the west side of the lake would put that project in a place where it is uneconomical and we have no project; there will be no expansion without a customer. The customer base is based on kilowatt hours. Those discussions are ongoing and if those agreements get signed, we have a project to move forward. If they don’t get signed, we have no project. Thank you.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Your final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is more than just the western route; there are the two across-the-lake routes, and if I remember

correctly, I think the costs on those aren’t quite as high as going all the way around the west. One might be $40 million and one might be $50 million. I don’t know for sure, but it’s quite a gap from the $100 million that the Premier is suggesting. I’m thinking that the costing that we got was from Deze. Deze wants to go around the east. How do we know that the costing we’re getting for the other routes are fair and reasonable? Would the Premier commit to actually having a little bit of an independent review done into the actual costing of alternate routes?

Because the only ones we’re getting are Deze and Hydro Corporation assessments. I’d like to see what some of those costs are from an independent body as opposed to Deze. Thank you.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . Mr. Roland .

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, through the environmental review process additional information was requested. That information was gathered and supplied to the review board around alternate sites. We go from $70 million to as high as $200 million, depending on the different scenarios that we’ve looked at: across-the-lake, underwater cable and so on. Substantially more expensive than what’s in place today. Without a business case, without a customer at a kilowatt hour, there is no project unless this government itself decides to pay the additional cost for going alternate routes around the lake. Thank you.

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Question 59-16(5): Taltson Hydro Expansion Project Proposed Transmission Lines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 60-16(5): Wait Times To See Medical Specialists In The NWT

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement I talked about a lack of response to a constituent’s concern. At issue for my constituent was the very long time that he would have had to wait to see a specialist doctor. In the end he never did see a specialist; his injury healed itself, fortunately. But that does not address the problem of long wait times that NWT residents are faced with. The original reason for his e-mail was the problem of a long wait time, and that was in October of 2008. So my question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services .

I understand that we have different specialists within the NWT, and different specialties, of course, will have more people attending to them than others, but I’d like to know from the Minister how long a person should have to wait to see a specialist doctor. Thank you.

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Question 60-16(5): Wait Times To See Medical Specialists In The NWT

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 60-16(5): Wait Times To See Medical Specialists In The NWT

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of respect for the Member, but that was quite a scathing statement talking about how unresponsive I am, which makes me wonder what kind of a Member is she to wait for 18 months before she brings up an issue about her constituent.

Mr. Speaker, we work on the same floor; we work in the same building; my BlackBerry is on 24 hours a day. She knows that a simple phone call or an e-mail could have given her an update. Mr. Speaker, at the same time, her scandalous headline, she did answer her own question in that…

I want to answer the question about being responsive to constituents. We take this job very seriously. We have 2,500 people working in the department who work hard to respond, and the Member did state that this person was contacted by a staff. When they contact my office they don’t always get a direct answer from me. We respond as a system.

Mr. Speaker, wait times, without knowing the details, I can’t answer the question. I’ll take the question as notice and get the details and get back to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 60-16(5): Wait Times To See Medical Specialists In The NWT

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today my Member’s statement was on the Mackenzie Gas Project and my questions today are for the Minister of ITI . Is the Minister of ITI working with Esso and other producers to get this Mackenzie Gas Project restarted to avoid the two-year delay that producers have announced? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have worked with Mackenzie Valley Pipeline proponents and also the Aboriginal Pipeline Group in the past to determine some of the information requirements that were required for the pipeline. The Joint Review Panel has recently filed the report. Until such time as the responsible Ministers and the various governments respond, we will continue to participate through providing a government response and also continuing to intervene and participate in the different hearings as appropriate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the MGP slowdown in the offshore activity moving over to Alaska and the Chukchi Sea with Shell and the communities in the Beaufort-Delta and Nunakput communities that I represent, there is a drill chip in

the Mckinley Bay 60 miles away from Tuk. People could be working. The two-year delay such as this really puts a damper on everything because the projects that we do have going on in Tuk, the access road is starting to slow down, it is near completion. Mr. Speaker, what will the Minister of ITI be doing with the federal Ministers to get this project restarted to avoid the further delay and is he working to get the offshore activity restarted? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I think there are a couple of pieces of information that I need to emphasize. First of all, Imperial Oil recently announced that the decision to construct would be made in 2013. The earliest if gas would flow would be in 2018 if it was a positive decision. The reasons they gave for the delay was the long delay caused by the regulatory process and also the lack of a fiscal arrangement with the federal government.

In the recent federal throne speech and the recent federal budget, the federal government had indicated that they support the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline as long as it was commercially viable and that it met all of the regulatory requirements that the governments would respond to.

We will continue to do our part to focus on dealing with the response from the Joint Review Panel report and also the fiscal arrangements is the most important thing. Proponents have indicated that would be the main rush now for making a positive decision to construction. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the road to the gravel source is nearing completion, the Minister working with any other businesses, communities in the Mackenzie Delta and down the valley on the downturn of the delay of the business activity, has he found a way to continue stimulus funding for additional projects such as that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, we have been continuing to get our message out about the very negative impact that not only caused by economic slowdown but also by the lack of economic development in the region. We have been working through the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline office. We have been working with the communities and also with local businesses to try to identify the kinds of assistance that could be looked at so that we could get through this difficult period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to ask the Minister if he could, I guess, send a letter to the producers groups and the Joint Review Panel, but producers groups in urging them to see if they could get this project restarted and try to hold back on the two-year delay, because people in the

communities and down the valley need employment. The businesses that are suffering up and down the valley need this project to go sooner rather than later. I ask the Minister if he could send a letter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I guess if it gives the Member any comfort, the Alaska Pipeline have indicated that their project be pushed back to probably 2020. I guess a large part of the delays there is with, for example in the Chukchi Sea, there have been a lot of court cases with regards to whales and other marine mammals. That is an issue that Americans have to face as well. We will continue to work through the regulatory process and we will be working on filing our government response. We will be participating in the hearings as they go along as appropriate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 61-16(5): Mackenzie Gas Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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