Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1998

This is page numbers 441 - 481 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was nunavut .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Premier's Sessional Statement

Contracting With Former Employees

Contracting With Former Employees

Aklavik Dedication Ceremonies

Conflict Of Interest Inquiry

Appreciation For The Support Of Colleagues And Constituents

Fort Smith Involvement At The Meet The North Conference

Consideration Of The Conflict Of Interest Report

Conflict Of Interest Inquiry

Passing Of Pierre Wedzin

Meet The North, Build A Vision Conference

Members' Statements 187-13(6): Stanton Regional Hospital Foundation Telethon

Recognition Of Legislature Pages From Arviat

Consideration Of The Conflict Of Interest Report

Opening Of The Fort Simpson Community Hall

Return To Oral Question 157-13(6): Formula Financing Agreement

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Contracting Former Senior Managers

Contracting With Former Employees

New Homeownership Program

Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Contracting With Former Employees

Contracting With Former Employees

Contracting With Former Employees

Collective Bargaining Negotiations

Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Return To Written Question 6-13(6): Resources To Address The Needs Of Fas/fae Students

Return To Written Question 7-13(6): Affirmative Action Statistics

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Tabled Document 38-13(6): Resources To Address The Needs Of Fas/fae Students

To Move Tabled Document 37-13(6) Report Of The Conflict Of Interest Commissioner Into Committee Of The Whole

Item 16: Motions

To Move Tabled Document 37-13(6) Report Of The Conflict Of Interest Commissioner Into Committee Of The Whole

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Motion To Amend Item 1 Of

Schedule B Of Bill 17, Division Measures Act

Motion To Amend Item 1 Of

Schedule C Of Bill 17, Division Measures Act

Motion To Amend Item 1 Of

Schedule E Of Bill 17, Division Measures Act

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Morin , Honourable Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable Manitok Thompson , Honourable John Todd .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 441

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Before we start, I wish to inform the House that I have received the following message from Her Honour the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories.

Dear Mr. Speaker:

I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories, the passage of Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1998/1999, during the sixth session of the 13th Legislative Assembly.

This is signed by Helen Maksagak, Commissioner. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Minister's Statement 76-13(6): Premier's Sessional Statement

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 441

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand before the House today as the Acting Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories -- a position just days ago that I did not expect to find myself in. However, it is a position I assume with a great sense of humility and responsibility. We are, until March 31, 1999, MLAs and Ministers for all of the Northwest Territories. We must not lose sight of this collective duty as we confront the difficult tasks that await us in the days ahead. Whatever our position, whatever our title, we are all here to serve the people of our communities.

Mr. Speaker, we have a heavy agenda to deliver over the course of the next few weeks. We have an obligation to ensure we do so in a fair, mature and responsible fashion. Before we can address the complex political issues that must be resolved, we have an extremely busy legislative schedule. There are about 20 different bills that need to be debated and passed. There is a lot of work that must be done and done quickly. We have to roll up our sleeves and get at it.

Mr. Speaker, at the top of our priority list for the eastern Arctic is legislation such as the Division Measures Act and other bills which will:

*permit contracting back under new service arrangements;

*provide for transitional arrangements for both the Workers' Compensation Board and the NWT Power Corporation that will allow them to operate in both territories;

*enable professional organizations to operate in both jurisdictions; and,

*allow for the orderly transition to two new governments.

We must ensure all these critical pieces of legislation are put in place to get two new governments on a good footing. At the same time, we must set the stage for the creation of a new Western Territorial Government. We will continue to actively pursue the agenda for the new Northwest Territories. There are a number of urgent items on the agenda including:

*the ongoing negotiation of land claims and self-government agreements, as well as outstanding governance issues related to the ongoing relationship between public and Aboriginal governments;

*a new economic strategy;

*establishing a more equitable fiscal arrangement with Ottawa that will allow us to gain a greater share of resource revenues as well as an increase in the tax window so we can generate more own-source revenues: and

*ongoing efforts to ensure the federal government finally delivers on its long- standing unfulfilled promise to allow northerners to take control of northern resources.

These are the keys to building a strong foundation from which the new Northwest Territories can grow and prosper.

Mr. Speaker, we also have a responsibility to select a new Premier - a leader who will be able to carry out the vision for the north that we have developed together during this mandate. Now is the time for leadership. Because our business is the business of governing. It is about ensuring consistency and providing certainty that the people of the NWT will continue to be served by a strong and stable government. It is about delivering the social and economic programs and services that the people of our communities rely on.

It is about instilling confidence in the local territorial and national business community that the NWT is a good place to invest. A good place to create jobs and generate economic growth. It is about

demonstrating to Ottawa that we are a mature and responsible government that can take setbacks in stride. This is a Legislature that can deal quickly and effectively with problems when they arise. A Legislature that will continue to move forward in preparing the new north for the new millennium. Mr. Speaker, these are the things that matter to our communities.

The people of the Northwest Territories fully expect us to honour our commitment to serve their needs and interests. It is a pledge I fully intend to fulfil during my temporary tenure as Acting Premier, and when I return to my ongoing duties as Deputy Premier and as MLA until the end of our term. Serving the people of the NWT is both an honour and a privilege - a privilege that can be taken away as quickly as it is granted.

Mr. Speaker, we face perhaps the most challenging and emotionally charged issue this House has ever had to address. That is to achieve an equitable and ethical resolution of the conflict issue. I want to make it clear to my honourable colleagues that we are obliged to set aside any personal prejudices. Despite all that has been said and reported on, we have a duty to develop a course of action that is both fair and balanced. I am calling on all of my colleagues to approach this work with an open heart and an open mind.

It is critical that we not prejudge the outcome of the proceedings until all voices and all perspectives have been heard. The people of the Northwest Territories are counting on us to do the right thing. We must not let them down. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 76-13(6): Premier's Sessional Statement

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 442

The Speaker

Thank you. Ministers' statements, Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 77-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 442

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a need to set the public record straight and get the facts before this House on the matter of contracting with former GNWT employees. This is not a new issue nor is it just a northern issue. However, it has become a recurring topic in this Legislature and in the media since government went through its major downsizing initiatives of the past few years. There are now many more former GNWT staff out in the private sector trying to make a living in an economy dominated by government contracting and spending.

Mr. Speaker, the current government guideline governing contracting with former employees has been in place since December, 1986. It is contained in the Human Resource Manual

Section 003 titled Ethics - Conflict of Interest - Outside Employment, Clause 14, under guidelines which read:

For one year from the date their employment ceases, senior officers may not own, operate, control or be employed by any business enterprise within the community in which they were employed and in which they may be in a position to unduly exploit knowledge they gained while employed by the Government of the Northwest Territories.

This is the guideline that governs contracting with former senior officers. It also governs other situations such as subsequent employment within a specific community. An employee may apply to the Chairman of the Financial Management Board to be exempted from any or all provisions of this section.

The guideline attempts to find a balance between the collective and individual rights and the need to encourage movement of talented people between public and private sector employment. As a collective, the public must be protected from situations where former employees may have an unfair market advantage in bidding on government work or where government policy restrains competition or trade. As an individual, the former employee has a right to not be unfairly restricted in his or her ability to make a living.

The approach taken in the guideline is to set criteria that guard against former employees gaining an unfair market advantage in securing government contracts. Unfair market advantage in this case can only arise from undue exploitation of knowledge gained while employed. It is assumed this refers to confidential information or knowledge, as public information or knowledge can be exploited by anyone and thus by definition could not be unduly exploited by a former employee. The guideline is premised on several assumptions about what gives rise to unfair advantage.

The first assumption is that only senior officers have access to enough confidential information or knowledge during their employment to have the potential to have an unfair market advantage. This exempts hundreds of former employees who have been laid off or have resigned in the past few years who have not been senior officers. However, approximately 250 current staff meet the definition of a senior officer. Three years ago there were over 330, so there is the potential for many former employees to be subject to this first criterion.

The second assumption is that confidential information or knowledge has a relatively short shelf life. Given the openness with which government operates and the rapid pace with which the environment and government operations change, it is unlikely that confidential information or knowledge carries a market advantage value for more than one year. As a result, the guideline sets a second criterion by specifying a one year time limit on its application.

The third assumption the guideline makes is that confidential information or knowledge is only of value and only gives rise to an unfair advantage if that information directly pertains to the government work in question. For example, knowing the government's internal plans for meeting public housing needs is not going to give rise to an unfair advantage if the government work being contracted is to study potential environmental liabilities. This is the basis for the third criterion, which prohibits undue exploitation of confidential knowledge gained.

Mr. Speaker, it is also important to distinguish between the use of confidential information or knowledge to gain market advantage versus the release or disclosure of confidential information generally. All employees must take an oath of secrecy concerning the release or disclosure of confidential information. The secrecy oath continues to apply to all former employees whether or not they are covered by the guideline governing contracting former employees. For example, no one wants former employees releasing or using confidential medical information under any circumstances.

Mr. Speaker, our guideline that governs contracting with former employees is similar to that in other jurisdictions. The practices of other jurisdictions range from no restrictions in Alberta because they prioritize encouraging movement of people between the public and private sectors, to one year cooling-off periods that apply to a very narrow group of employees in Manitoba.

The GNWT guideline balances collective and individual rights and interests and takes a pragmatic approach to this issue. It is structured to prevent former employees from successfully suing the government for unfairly restricting their ability to earn a living. It is intended to give guidance to government staff who are tendering and entering into contracts. It informs both current and former employees what the government believes their rights and obligations are after they have ceased to be employees.

The number of former employees active in the private sector probably reaches into the thousands. Even the hundreds of those defined as senior officers and thus covered by this guideline are too many to allow one organization or individual to police every contract entered into by the government. However, the job of my department and myself is to ensure that a reasonable guideline is in place, that it is widely published and that situations that are called to our attention are reviewed. Each contracting authority is responsible to know the rules set out by the guideline and to abide by them.

Mr. Speaker, although I would always caution on reacting to poorly researched media editorials, I do note that the editorial in the November 30th News/ North raised government contracts with a specific former employee, Mr. Roland Bailey. I believe the government should correct the misleading information and the editorial presented. I will request staff to complete a survey of the practices of other jurisdictions, to research the case law that is relevant and to assess whether any changes to our approach is appropriate. When this review is complete, I will communicate it to the Members of this House. Thank you.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 77-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 443

The Speaker

Thank you. I would like to welcome back the Member from Nunakput . I understand Mr. Steen just came back from the hospital. I also would like to welcome back Mr. Evaloarjuk , who was also in the hospital.

--Applause

The Member for Kivallivik has requested that I recognize his Pages that are with us today. I want to apologize if I do not say your name right. All these names are aboriginal names. I might have a problem pronouncing them, but here goes. John Niakrok, Adrian Pameolik, Brian Suwaksioak and Gloria Arnayuinak. Welcome to the Assembly.

--Applause

I hope I said your names correctly. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Member's Statement 178-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 443

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to leave my prepared statement and respond to the Minister of Finance's statement on contracting of former senior managers. First of all, Mr. Speaker, I was one of the people who raised this issue many times in this Assembly and I make no apology for it.

Let us review some of Mr. Todd 's statements. He infers that, for example, as deputy minister of Health, an individual would not be privy to information, direction or policy for education or public works. That is bizarre. All senior deputy ministers or assistant deputy ministers meet at senior deputy ministers' meetings and are privy to the direction, policy and focus of this government. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, there is a policy in place and the government did not follow it. Later today, I will ask the Minister about his statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 178-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 443

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Member's Statement 179-13(6): Aklavik Dedication Ceremonies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 443

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members of the Legislative Assembly. I would like to take this opportunity to talk about a special event that took place in my riding of Aklavik.

The mayor and hamlet council hosted an evening of events on Friday, November 20th, starting at 4:00 p.m., with the naming of the airport after pilot Freddie Carmichael, and the hamlet also named the fire hall after the late fire chief, Harry Gordon.

Plaques were presented to Mr. Carmichael for his dedicated long-term service to the community of Aklavik as a well-known pilot and also of the whole Mackenzie Delta. Also, Ms. Gordon and her family, for the late Harry Gordon, were also dedicated a plaque for his long-term service as the former fire chief and his many years of service to the people of Aklavik. Also, Ms. Julia Edwards and family on behalf of their daughter, the late Joyce Edwards, for all of her dedication and service to the community of Aklavik as a returning officer for the hamlet in all the elections that took place in Aklavik.

Also, Mr. and Mrs. Freddie and Bella Greenland, for encouraging and supporting all their daughters to be educated. All ten graduated from high school, along with their granddaughter.

The community hosted a feast and also an old-time dance that went late into the evening. With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate all the recipients and their families and also the people of Aklavik for this event. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 179-13(6): Aklavik Dedication Ceremonies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas .

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Member's Statement 180-13(6): Conflict Of Interest Inquiry

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to address what has been on everyone's mind for the past few days, the Conflict of Interest Inquiry. As the result of this inquiry, the residents of the Northwest Territories have understandably become more cynical about their public institutions. If people cannot trust their Members to do the right thing, soon Members will find that their decisions will have less and less legitimacy.

These recent conflicts of interest have taken attention, time and energy away from other important issues. This may potentially incur more than over $1 million in final costs to the taxpayer. On a sidebar, Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the final costs will be split east and west?

I hope the remaining and new Members of Cabinet will continue to conduct themselves with integrity. I do not dispute that this inquiry was necessary, but this money could have been better spent on more important priorities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 180-13(6): Conflict Of Interest Inquiry

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Evaloarjuk .

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Member's Statement 181-13(6): Appreciation For The Support Of Colleagues And Constituents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Mark Evaloarjuk

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have a prepared statement today, however, I just want to make a statement to give my appreciation and thanks to Mr. Speaker and my colleagues for welcoming me back into this House. I would like to extend my appreciation to my family as well, who supported me morally. Although they were not able to be with me physically, they have always given me their support. Also, my constituents of Pond Inlet and Hall Beach. I appreciate their sincere appreciation of me being back here in the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

--Applause

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Member's Statement 181-13(6): Appreciation For The Support Of Colleagues And Constituents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker

Thank you. Member's statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Member's Statement 182-13(6): Fort Smith Involvement At The Meet The North Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, over the weekend I had the good fortune to go to Edmonton to attend the big conference, Meet the North, Build a Vision. Mr. Speaker, there was a significant northern presence at that conference. In particular, I am very proud and I would like to commend the community of Fort Smith who had, in my opinion and in the opinion of many people I talked to down there, one of the best displays at the conference. Mr.

Speaker, there were four linked booths put together by the community groups and government, such as the Town of Fort Smith, the Fort Smith Chamber of Commerce, Northwest Air Lease, Taiga Tours, Designer's Den, the Department of RWED, Wood Buffalo National Park, and Mr. Laurie Dexter, all put their efforts together and put together, I think, one of the best booths I have seen. It was definitely a credit to the community.

It is very important for people in the north to recognize that we have to, in fact, sell the many attributes and good things we have up here. Too many of them are a secret to the people in the south. It was a very good conference and I am very happy and proud of the people of Fort Smith. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 182-13(6): Fort Smith Involvement At The Meet The North Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 183-13(6): Consideration Of The Conflict Of Interest Report

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 444

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak to the conflict report and the process we are likely to use to debate this issue. Later today, I will move a motion to move the report into committee of the whole for debate and resolution. The conflict report has stirred up a great deal of public debate in the news and in the public media, call-in programs and so forth.

Our geography is very large, Mr. Speaker, but it is obvious our political world is very small. Our moves and comments are the subject of much scrutiny and controversy. Now it is our responsibility to deal with the report, to either accept it or to reject it. The report clearly states we must accept or reject the recommendations.

One part of the act states that nothing in this act affects the inherent power of the Legislative Assembly to control its own proceedings, privileges, or prerogatives, unless expressly provided for otherwise. In other words, there is no express provision limiting the course of action of the Assembly. Since it is the fundamental and inherent right of Members to run this Assembly, therefore, it is also our duty to determine what course of action we deem appropriate.

It is this Assembly's inherent right to punish its own Members in cases where there is guilt. In my mind, that means punishment as we see appropriate if there is guilt. This is a very unique responsibility. The act is there to promote and maintain public trust and confidence in the integrity, impartiality and objectivity of the Assembly Members and of the process of government.

The Conflict Commissioner saw eight terms of reference that disclosed adequate grounds for proceeding with an inquiry. The report sends a stern message that government must be conducted openly and transparently. Whatever the fate of the report, in my mind, that report is the result and the reasons why the inquiry came about: the lack of openness and transparency. All I can do is reflect back to the many questions I asked on the Lahm Ridge Tower to no satisfaction. No wonder we are at this today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 183-13(6): Consideration Of The Conflict Of Interest Report

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

The Speaker

Member's statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Member's Statement 184-13(6): Conflict Of Interest Inquiry

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Report of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner was tabled in the House one week ago. This report is the result of almost a year of process which culminated in a public inquiry and now this report. As for my role in this process, I was always guided by what I perceived to be the public interest.

Conflict of Interest legislation is relatively new and these proceedings and subsequent rulings have set precedents and benchmarks which will now be used in consideration of future conflict of interest rulings, not only here, but throughout Canada. Again, in closing, I encourage Members of this Assembly, members of the public service and northern constituents to read and understand this report because there are important issues to be learned for those who now serve and for many who will in the future have the intention to serve the public and, over the course of the next few days, I will have more to say on this matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 184-13(6): Conflict Of Interest Inquiry

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Member's Statement 185-13(6): Passing Of Pierre Wedzin

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have the unfortunate responsibility to inform this House of the passing of one of our great traditional elders. Today, Pierre Wedzin of Rae-Edzo passed away after a long illness. He has been a very respected member of the Dogrib region and a traditional medicine man for the area for many years. He lived a very traditional life style and knew the importance of teaching the traditional ways to our younger people. His family is very large with a total of 86 grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

His family enjoyed his kind and gentle ways and I am sure he will be missed greatly. To his family and friends, I would like to, on behalf of this Assembly, send our condolences. He is a great man and will be missed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 185-13(6): Passing Of Pierre Wedzin

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus .

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Member's Statement 186-13(6): Meet The North, Build A Vision Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, similar to Mr. Miltenberger , I too had the opportunity to attend the Meet the North conference in Edmonton this past weekend. It was hosted by Edmonton's mayor, Bill Smith, and organized by his office. Mr. Speaker, the conference had many booths and speakers from all over the north. From the north I mean the NWT, the Yukon, northern Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Of course, the NWT was well represented, there were many speakers and booths from the NWT, such as private individuals like designers, Berna Beaulieu and Karen Wright-Fraser. There were also many companies like the Power Corporation, Deton'Cho Corporation and the Housing Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the City of Edmonton. Obviously there was a lot of time and energy which went into organizing this conference. I also would like to applaud all the people who made presentations and put up booths for a job well done. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 186-13(6): Meet The North, Build A Vision Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 445

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Henry .

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Members' Statements 187-13(6): Stanton Regional Hospital Foundation Telethon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform Members of this House and the general public of the very significant and successful event which took place in our capital city this past weekend. I refer, Mr. Speaker, to the first Stanton Regional Hospital Foundation Telethon and hopefully that would be the first of many more to come. The event was held at St. Patrick High School and raised over $136,000 to go towards the purchase of equipment which will provide better health care services to all residents of the Northwest Territories.

Most of us, Mr. Speaker, got the opportunity to view the telethon from the front of our television screen and it was a fantastic opportunity for Members of my community and for others visiting my community to actually see what goes on behind the scenes. I would like to congratulate the organizers for a very well- organized and successful event. The organizing committee consisted of co-chairs Loretta Foley and Jerome Babyn from my community. There were approximately over 200 volunteers who participated in the event.

I would also like to congratulate the public who came out to support the event and most of all the individuals, groups and organizations who contributed funds to the purchase of this equipment.

Mr. Speaker, the Foundation is now much closer to its goal of raising over $2 million for the purchase of equipment which will provide better health care services to the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Members' Statements 187-13(6): Stanton Regional Hospital Foundation Telethon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien .

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Member's Statement 188-13(6): Recognition Of Legislature Pages From Arviat

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as yourself, I would also like to recognize the four Pages who are present here today in the Assembly from Arviat. Mr. Speaker, they will probably be the future leaders of Nunavut no doubt. Mr. Speaker, Gloria Arnayuinak, John Niakrok, Brian Suwaksiork and Adrienne Pameolik, are probably the first Pages to be here in this Assembly in ten years or more. They will probably be the last group of Pages from Nunavut that will serve in this Assembly. Maybe the last few, Mr. Speaker, I am aware that there may be another group coming in next week.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the teachers at Qitiqliq school for helping the students prepare for the visit to the Assembly, First Air and Calm Air for providing travel arrangements for the students to come here, Cheryl Voytilla, a staff member here who helped the students get ready today along with Tony Whitford. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 188-13(6): Recognition Of Legislature Pages From Arviat

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Member's Statement 189-13(6): Consideration Of The Conflict Of Interest Report

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A week ago today the report of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner was tabled in this House. Mr. Speaker, February of last year is when the complaint was laid against myself as a Member of the Legislative Assembly. Since February of last year, I have been advised by my legal counsel that I was not allowed to talk to the press or the public and publicly defend myself as a person. I took that advice and I thought it was proper, as well, that I should not do that. Today is a new day for myself. Now, I can stand up and defend myself.

The conflict report will be moved into committee of the whole today, that is my understanding. There is a process and I thank the Members for that process, that I can stand up in this House and speak for 90 minutes to raise my concerns of the whole process from start to finish. I plan on doing that then. I want to let my constituents know to listen on Friday, possibly come and listen because I will be here and I will be speaking my piece for the first time in just about a year, I will be able to stand up and publicly speak what I think and feel of the process.

Mr. Speaker, I encourage the members of the public, as well as all Members of the Legislative Assembly, to read the report. Not just the

summary, not just the conclusion, read the report from start to finish and come to your own conclusion, but please do not come to your own conclusion until you hear me speak for 90 minutes on Friday. That is the only opportunity I have had and will have to defend myself. I look forward to working with you, debating the report on the conflict of interest and I look forward to Friday. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 189-13(6): Consideration Of The Conflict Of Interest Report

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement 190-13(6): Opening Of The Fort Simpson Community Hall

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 446

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to speak on an event that happened in Fort Simpson on November 14th. Mr. Speaker, some time ago through this Legislative Assembly process there was a certain community hall that there was a lot of controversy in this House about. Finally on November 14th we completed it and had an official opening in Fort Simpson.

Even though it is a long struggle working with the Members in this House, I would like to thank all the Members for finally seeing what we are trying to do in Fort Simpson and allowing us to continue building a facility that is going to be enjoyed and utilized by the citizens in Fort Simpson as a community. Finally, we have a space large enough that we can put a lot of people in there collectively and the elders and people who are handicapped that will have access to a place in Fort Simpson where we all could get together and gather like in so many other communities in the north. With that, I would like to thank the Legislative Assembly for that. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 190-13(6): Opening Of The Fort Simpson Community Hall

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 447

The Speaker

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Return To Oral Question 157-13(6): Formula Financing Agreement

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 447

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Henry on November 5, 1998 with respect to the Formula Financing Agreement - Impact of Population Decline.

Under the new Northwest Territories/Canada Formula Financing Agreement, the gross expenditure base - a measure of the Northwest Territories' spending needs - is escalated each year by the three-year moving average of the growth in provincial local government spending across Canada, multiplied by the three-year moving average of growth in the western NWT population compared with that of Canada.

The population adjustment factor, as this last term is referred to, reflects the fact that if territorial population is growing at a faster rate than that of Canada, spending needs are also growing, and therefore, funding under the grant increases. However, if territorial population grows more slowly than that of Canada, or even declines, the grant will grow more slowly or in some cases even decline.

This link between population and funding levels is a standard feature of federal/provincial fiscal arrangements. Provincial governments also experience a decline in federal transfers if their populations decrease. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question 157-13(6): Formula Financing Agreement

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 447

The Speaker

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Antoine .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce Norman Prevost, the mayor of Fort Simpson, he is in the gallery. Mr. Speaker, Fort Simpson, is I guess rightfully, the Liidlikue in my own language. Mr. Prevost is returning from Edmonton where he also attended the Meet the North Conference. He is one of the many representatives from the north at this conference and he is one of the main reasons why we finally completed the community hall in Fort Simpson. I would like to ask the Speaker to welcome Mr. Prevost to this chamber.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, I also would like to introduce to you Mr. Robert Villeneuve, who has been my constituency assistant in my Nahendeh office in Fort Simpson. He is here at the capital of the Northwest Territories to familiarize himself with the Government of the Northwest Territories and its department, the Legislative Assembly. Please, Mr. Speaker, through you, I would like to welcome them to this chamber. Thank you.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Rabesca .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize my constituency members in the gallery. There are 23 students from grade 11 and 12 from Chief Jimmy Bruneau High School of Rae-Edzo, along with their supervisors and teaching volunteers, Odile Haesselin and Jerry Moran, teachers, and Frankie Cansell, the bus driver. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

The Speaker

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Erasmus .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a couple of constituents from Yellowknife North. The first is Mr. Mike Walcer, he is a long-time northerner. To give you an idea of how long he has been here, I can remember him from when I was a little kid so that is quite a while. He is also the owner and operator of the Green Thumb business.

Also, I would like to recognize Doreen Baptiste. Doreen is an instructor at the Yellowknife campus of Aurora College and she has also just finished the calendar for 1999, which has a lot of important dates from the history of the NWT on it. Thank you.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

The Speaker

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome to the gallery, Mr. John Quirke, the Clerk of the new Nunavut Legislative Assembly and a resident of Iqaluit. Mr. Dave McCann, who is a well-known best selling Canadian author of the NWT Cargo Cult book and owner of the Treeline Cafe, the best place to get a vegetarian breakfast here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

The Speaker

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. O'Brien .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome a very good friend of Preston Manning's, and he is known to be a little further right than Attila the Hun, Mr. Dave McCann, a Yellowknife businessman. Thank you.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 447

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, these are not my constituents but I see two people in the gallery today I would like to recognize. I met these people at the Conflict of Interest inquiry and I think they showed up every day the inquiry was on. Now they must have been bit by the political bug because they are here today. They are two senior citizens, Mr. Bill Powless and Law Gardiner.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 448

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 448

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize someone I have not recognized for a couple of days, Pat Thomas, NWTTA. Hi, Pat.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 448

The Speaker

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ootes .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 448

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would also like to recognize two of my constituents that Mrs. Groenewegen also recognized, Mr. Powless and Law Gardiner. You are great constituents. Thank you.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 448

The Speaker

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. To the rest of the people who have not been mentioned in the gallery, welcome to the Assembly. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A while ago we learned that the government has made a decision that they would retain the Arthur Laing building for government office space. Just to give a bit of background on this, last February as part of the office-saving space plan it was decided to sell the Arthur Laing building. An RFP was issued last summer to look for replacement office space. Apparently two responses were received and both of them were disappointing. Now we are at the stage where we are going to retain the Arthur Laing building and renovate it to the tune of some $3.8 million.

My question, Mr. Speaker, this goes back to the start of the Lahm Ridge Tower problem when it was to be taken off the market and it would have taken off 40 or 50,000 square feet from the vacant office space in Yellowknife, with the Laing building that was supposed to take off 50,000 or so square feet off the market in Yellowknife. I am wondering if the Minister of Public Works , Mr. Antoine , could tell us if he has an up-to-date office space rationalization plan that took this into consideration?

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Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

The Speaker

The Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do not have an up-to-date office plan now since we have decided not to go with the sale of the Laing building. The department is still developing a revised office plan at this point in time. We do not have a plan at this time yet. Thank you.

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Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

I am wondering why then, that decision is made to retain the Arthur Laing building. I go back to a year and one half ago when all the kafuffle over the Lahm Ridge started, why do we not have an office space plan that says, this is what we are going to do. We seem to be piecemealing this thing together. My question for the Minister is, when are we going to get an office space plan that we as legislators can also look at? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

The Speaker

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this decision which was made recently, I have shared this information with the honourable Members during the committee hearing last week. At that time I did indicate with my staff, that since the changes, we are revising the plan and as a result of the two bids that came in that were unsatisfactory, we had to relook at the plan and readjust our plan of action and we are working on a new revised plan at the time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It would not have taken a genius to figure out that the Laing building would not sell for much with the conditions that were placed on it. It would be an empty office building and with a five-year moratorium on office space. I wonder if the Minister could tell us why they did not look at this in the beginning, that they did not anticipate this, why was this not anticipated?

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Supplementary To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

The Speaker

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 448

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you. It was difficult to anticipate the result of the request for a proposal at the time that it was issued, Mr. Speaker, because the appraised value was substantially higher than the two bids that came in. At that point in time with the appraised value, we thought that if we

could get something close to that it would be satisfactory. As a result of the request for proposal that did not happen. As a result we had to relook at the situation after the request for proposal process was complete and evaluation done by the department and it was recommended that we have to relook at the plan of action.

Looking at the numbers over the next ten years, it was deemed that the best value for money was to retain the Arthur Laing building and utilize it. After all, Mr. Speaker, we are still in the stage where we are very strapped for cash and it would have been more expensive to sell the Laing building for the price that it would have come in at the same time as trying to get more office spaces in the private sector market. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. We are spending $3.8 million to upgrade this building, Mr. Speaker, that is money also. My question is with regard to the appraisal, was the appraisal done, if it included the fact that the condition was included that it could not be used for government office space? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the honourable Member mentioned a number of $3.8 million, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this figure has not been approved by the FMB yet. It is an estimated value of what the department had come up with and it is still in part of the revised office plan. It has not come for a decision before the FMB yet. This is not approved yet, so it is still in the planning stages. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Question 227-13(6): Yellowknife Office Space Plan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Henry .

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Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to Mr. Arlooktoo , the Acting Premier of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, we have just concluded a conflict of interest commission. It has been noted in the press that there is probably a figure of legal costs of under $1 million. My question to the Premier is, is there an update on that figure at the present time? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Yes, this is not under your responsibility, but perhaps you might want to respond? Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Return To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. You are completely right, the cost for the conflict inquiry, because it was done under the auspices of the Legislative Assembly, is a responsibility of the Management Services Board. I can generally pass on, from just my knowledge, that the actual invoices, I believe, will be for the conflict of interest hearing a little over $1 million. We are, at this point in time, trying to tally up the costs to government for the work that the government did on behalf of the Conflict of Interest Commission, in terms of requests for information, et cetera, and we do not yet have a complete total.

As an estimate and as a round figure, those we expect to be an additional $1 million or close to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Acting Premier for that information. I certainly do understand, Mr. Speaker, it is not part of his responsibility, but as there is no one else within the government that we can ask these questions of, I choose to ask them of the Deputy Premier.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of the public who are outraged at the costs we have spent to date on this particular action. I would like the Acting Premier to give assurances to this House and to the Members of the public of the Northwest Territories that, indeed, the costs of this inquiry are finished, that the clocks of the lawyers have been turned off, other than the lawyers who are defending an action that may be brought to the courts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Again, I have to remind the Member that the Member cannot make an assurance on behalf of the Assembly. He can only make assurance on behalf of the government. Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again, you are correct. On the government side what we are trying to do is, review the process and review the areas that were referred to in the conflict of interest report and see where immediately that the government can make changes or improvements on. That is work that is going on, but we are doing it in a way that will try to ensure that we do not influence in any way the proceedings that will be coming up here in the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 449

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I was looking for from the Premier was assurances that the legal costs for the Conflict of Interest Inquiry that took place are concluded. I understand that the Management and Services

Board provides these funds to Members but the Minister is the only one I can ask, regarding that cost. It is a cost to government. There is not anyone I can ask directly on these costs on the Management and Services Board. As the leader of the government, I would ask for assurances to tell me, and this House, that indeed those costs have been spent and that there is are no additional costs going to be incurred by a member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Question 228-13(6): Cost Of The Conflict Inquiry

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

Thank you. I will remind the Member from Yellowknife South , I will rule the question out of order and this is why. A question must not be addressed to the Speaker. Information relating to a matter under the Speaker's jurisdiction must be obtained privately. The question is ruled out of order. Do you still have a supplementary, Mr. Henry ? Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is in regard to the guidelines that this government has in place to regulate and also enforce that the public purse is being protected, especially when it comes to employees of this government, who basically find themselves in a situation where they receive lucrative contracts, leases, appointment to high stature boards, where they have influence and control over what goes on within this government. In regard to the guidelines, it has been in place since, I believe, December, 1986.

I believe those guidelines were there to protect the public purse, not an individual in regard to what he did or did not do. It was to ensure that there is some continuity in the government that when these people took office, took those portfolios, took the position of Minister, deputy minister, secretary to Cabinet, whatever, that they knew that leaving office there was a certain time period they were restricted for partaking in government.

I would like to ask the Minister of Finance , regarding his comments that he made where he wants to do a review, in regard to an individual that he stated in a report, Mr. Bailey, where he has received several lucrative government contracts; he has been appointed to certain public boards, and also in regard to certain leases in this government and contracts which he has received through RFPs, I would like to ask the Minister exactly, is there a tribunal or a committee which looks at the legalities of protecting the public purse besides Cabinet?

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Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me, first of all, say that what I was trying to do earlier was to bring clarity to the rules, to be specific in the policies of this government. I alluded only to Mr. Bailey because he seems to be the only person who seems to be getting public attention these days, for a variety of reasons. I am not aware of any other tribunal, or whether it is even necessary.

What I was trying to explain in a pragmatic way is the policies of the government, how they are policed in terms of individual contractual departments and the criteria, if you want, that is set for public servants who leave office and want to come back and work for this government. There is a fine line here between collective rights and individual rights. That is all I was trying to provide clarity on. If my honourable colleague is asking, is there an independent tribunal that he can go to if he is concerned, like an ombudsman, et cetera, I am not aware of one. Thank you.

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Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second supplementary, Mr. Speaker, is there, in regard to a process that this government has in place to ensure that when an individual leaves knowingly that there are certain commitments that this government has to the public purse, I am talking about the government here, not the individual leaving, to ensure that there is a process that if we do not like a decision made by Cabinet, that there is an avenue we can go to besides this Cabinet. Is there another mechanism that we can use in the government?

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Supplementary To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Not that I am aware of, Mr. Speaker, but I will look into it.

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Todd , did you take it as notice or what?

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

John Todd

Keewatin Central

No, Mr. Speaker. I had better not do that, I want to give my honourable colleague the right to finish his supplementaries. I am not aware of any other mechanism to address the concerns that have been addressed by my colleague, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to former Ministers and also principal secretaries who do have a lot of influence and involvement in the decisions and the ongoings of government, day in and day out, I would like to ask the Minister why is it that Mr. Bailey was appointed to basically serve on the Aurora Fund three days after he left office?

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Supplementary To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 450

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what is important is, again I wish my honourable colleague would really take the time if he will permit me to read my address. Mr. Bailey did not, did not infringe upon any conflict within relationship to the criteria set for the Aurora Fund as he alludes to. The Aurora Fund appointment was done by a board of directors outside of government, government and non-government, and Mr. Bailey, as far as I am aware, and I have double-checked this because I know this an important issue with everybody, did not breach the government guidelines. That is my point I was trying to make in my comments earlier. Repeat, did not.

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hopefully, we can get around to resolving this because the point I am trying to make is that there has to be some sort of independence to this board. I would like to ask the Minister, who was on the committee that made that decision? Was yourself, as the Minister, on that board to appoint Mr. Bailey to this particular board and all, who was present in making that decision?

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Supplementary To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I will try and do it from memory but, you know, given that everybody wants to go down to the fine line these days, but I will do it from memory. I believe I was there. I believe some of the deputies were there who sit on this board because that is the mechanism on which we put it in place. I believe the other three members, the outside members, were there. The only person who was not there was Mr. Kakfwi , who at that time was probably not appointed. I want to qualify it by saying that I will check the minutes and the records so we have got it clear, et cetera. I want to reiterate again, he never broke any guidelines as set out in the criteria by the GNWT. I am sorry, but he did not.

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Further Return To Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Question 229-13(6): Contracting Former Senior Managers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Picco .

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Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just following up on Mr. Todd 's earlier statement on contracting of former employees. Mr. Todd , in response to Mr. Krutko 's questions, stated that there was no contradiction of the policy. I am wondering why did Mr. Todd not be forced to follow the policy with regard to Mr. Bailey. That is why we have policies in place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I thought I had kind of answered it in my statement. There was no requirement to enforce any policy because Mr. Bailey met the criteria and the guidelines set by the GNWT. It is fact. I cannot say it any more than that and that is the reason why I spoke to it today.

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Return To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

Again, just to remind the Members with regard to questions about members or people who are not in the House, contain an inference or impute motives or cast aspirations upon any persons; but I would also like to remind the Minister that by mentioning an individual, he has, he did open, so we cannot protect the person since he did make that mention of an individual. Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, following up on Mr. Todd 's statement on the contracting of employees, on page 80 of the tabled document, the Conflict of Interest report by Ms. Crawford, she states that Minister Todd , the Minister of Finance , the Chairman of the Financial Management Board , testified that he did not know it was his responsibility to enforce that policy, nor did he know what was being done about enforcement. Yet, Mr. Speaker, I will quote from Hansard, February 23, 1998, Mr.

Picco speaking here, "I would like to suggest that the people should not be able to opt out of the policy by running to the Chairman of the Financial Management Board ." I wonder, Mr. Speaker, could Mr. Todd finally set this record straight? Does he indeed understand the policy and does he enforce it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

Thank you. Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

John Todd

Keewatin Central

If I did not understand it before, I sure as heck now understand it, Mr. Speaker. I think what is important here is what I tried to say in my comments. This policy affects close to 250-300 people. Each contracting authority is responsible for the rules set up with the guidelines and to abide by them. They have to bring to my attention, if they feel that somebody is not obeying the rules and the regulations and the guidelines that are set. That has not been done and the point I was trying to make with Mr.

Bailey and I apologize to him if I brought his name forward again today, is to try and point out that he, in fact, did meet all the guidelines and policies of the government. That is all, nothing else.

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Further Return To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 451

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That was nice but he did not answer my question. My question was, did Mr. Todd , because of what he had said at the conflict of interest report, that he did not know it was his responsibility to enforce the policy and he did not know what he was doing about it, that

was my question. So I will repeat it, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question was indeed, does Mr. Todd understand the policy and does he enforce it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

Again, Mr. Todd . Two questions.

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Further Return To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I understand the policy. If I inadvertently during the hearing said I did not, it was narrow on my part. I understand the policy. I understand my responsibilities and that is what I was trying to explain today in terms of my comment to the House.

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Further Return To Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 230-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

Oral Questions. Mr. Roland .

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Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question at this time would be directed to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Minister Arlooktoo . Mr. Speaker, while at the Meet the North, Build a Vision conference, Mr. Arlooktoo announced a program through the Housing Corporation of grants that would be available to people in the Northwest Territories buying a home. I would like to know if the Minister could inform this House as to the program and how it would be implemented? Thank you.

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Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation .

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Return To Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had the pleasure of informing delegates of this exciting new program and wanted to clarify also that the program was introduced to Members through a letter, an announcement the previous week, that I distributed to all Members.

This program is partly in response to a request by Cabinet to the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development and all other departments in trying to identify areas where we can stimulate the northern economy and to ensure that the workers we have in the communities stay here in the north and are able to buy homes here.

The secondary part which is just as important, I believe, is the fact that it has been proven that for every existing home that is sold, the economic spinoff is great and that it will, in the end, improve, in general, the economy of the Northwest Territories and provide ownership once and for all for a good number of our residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister inform us what would the difference in this program be compared to the EDAP, the Extended Down Payment Assistance Plan that is available right now? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Maybe I would mention first the similarities, the main one being that these are once-in-a-lifetime opportunities that the government will give to our residents. Under the EDAP program, however, we will finance up to 70 percent of the cost of a new or existing home, and to a maximum, I believe, up to $130,000. These grants, under the new Minimum Down Payment Assistance Program or MDAP, to a maximum of $10,000 for western Arctic residents and $15,000 for the residents of Nunavut. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Question 231-13(6): New Homeownership Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Premier. It is in regard to the working group of deputies he announced that has been struck to look at some of the process issues and administrative issues raised in the Conflict of Interest Report. I think, it is going to be critical, Mr. Speaker, that for this committee to have any credibility and to be seen as doing a fair and objective job that they will require, at least, an outside third party to oversee the workings of this committee. In fact, I have written to the Minister about that concern.

Could the Minister or the Premier indicate to the House whether he would be prepared to consider that kind of addition to this very important committee to ensure that it can do good work? Thank you.

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Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

The Acting Premier, Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Return To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did receive the letter from the Member this afternoon and I appreciate the suggestion that the process that I initiated last week be done to ensure the greatest possible credibility and I would agree with that. It is certainly something that I will be bringing forward to the new Premier once he or she is selected next week. Originally, what I had in mind was very similar to the way the government responds to safety inspections or inquests for that matter.

That is, that we do not generally wait for the government to give an official response but in areas where we can make changes and improvements right away, we will try and do that. I think that is something we still need to do, but we will also consider the Member's suggestion. Thank you.

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Return To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 452

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is clearly a unique circumstance and the implications in the report involve deputy ministers in a number of departments. To me, it would be perceived, I think, very dimly by the public and by most people to have the people or the positions that may be questioned in a report, to be sitting down to, in fact, review their own actions in a critical light. Could the Acting Premier indicate, are there terms of reference for this working group and would he be prepared to share those to see what kind of terms of reference and what kind of framework they are going to be working within? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

The Speaker

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are no written terms of reference. What we have are instructions from myself, as Acting Premier, to the head of the deputies, the secretary to Cabinet, to begin in their own way, the process of reviewing the document and seeing if there are any changes we need to make, or look at making to policies and procedures. This is done without necessarily admitting to any areas that had been done improperly, et cetera. It is just a way of trying to show good faith and the best of intentions in responding to the report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final supplementary to the Minister, to the Acting Premier, is in regard to these good intentions, which I commend the Premier for. Once again, if there is going to be any credibility to this issue, and given the nature of the comments in the report and the significant nature of them, that it would behoove the government to, in fact, take a formal look at this and not just have the deputies sit down over coffee and look at this.

I would ask the Acting Premier if he would, in fact, instruct his officials to put together some terms of reference that would be very clear in terms of what they hope to come out of this review, without as he said, acknowledging that there may be anything wrong, but at least to take a critical look at this process so that, in fact, it is seen to be dealt with fairly, as well as being dealt with fairly? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

The Speaker

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated earlier, this is an issue that I will bring forward to the new Premier. It is my wish that whatever process, we undertake as much credibility as possible. I am still in the process of reading the Conflict of Interest Report and so are many others. There are areas of concern and things that I do not quite understand in the report. It would be premature at this time to start responding to them but we could look at ways of how we can start responding.

We need the process here in the House to take place and the work that is being done by the deputies be done at that bureaucratic and professional level. We can then ask the new Premier to do what the Members ask. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Question 232-13(6): Deputies Working Group On Conflict Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for Mr. Todd in response to his Minister's statement today, contracting with former employees. Mr. Todd has laid out here many of the things that the post-employment policy is not intended to do. He said it is not intended to restrict the movement of former government employees from the public to the private sector and he also mentioned that the government is such an open institution that hardly anything that the government does could be considered confidential so that would preclude a lot of these matters from being considered under the post-employment policy.

After all of the debate and tension that has been paid to this particular subject, could Mr. Todd please tell the House, what is the purpose of the post-employment policy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 453

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I thought I had explained it in my statement but the purpose of the policy is one, to protect, if you want, the interest of government to ensure that there is a level of fairness with former employees, whether they be deputy ministers or senior officers, et cetera, to tread very carefully between the collective rights and individual rights.

My point about the economy and the government, we all know the government has a huge impact on everybody's business across the territories and we need to ensure the policy protects the individual rights of deputies and senior officers who may come back to work for the government. It protects the collective rights of the government and the public purse, if you want, to ensure that individuals are not using, I think the term was undue, what was the term I used, I cannot remember, undue influence, if you want, or using the knowledge they have gained while in government to exploit government contracts.

I have said that the policy and the criteria were done in 1986. It clearly, because of this issue, I suspect maybe we should have looked at it earlier, but because of this issue we have to re-address it, that is what I intend to do.

In

summary, I think, it is there, I believe it is there to protect the interests of everyone. To protect the interests of the collective, protect the interests of the individual and to ensure that everybody gets a fair hearing, and the government gets value for money. I think, at the end of the day, the approach we have taken, the criteria we have set, is a valid one. It has been since 1986, but we are prepared to re-examine it, given the current controversy and concerns that has been raised.

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Return To Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 454

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 233-13(6): Contracting With Former Employees

Question 2