Oral Questions — 23 March 1993 (12th Assembly, 3rd Session, pp. 1091–1120)
1993-03-23, 12th Assembly 3rd Session, pp. 1091–1120
Northwest Territories — Debates (Hansard)
Debates of March 23rd, 1993
This is page numbers 1091 - 1120 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.
The word of the day was housing .
Topics
Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Health Billings Dispute
Winners Of The National Awards For Excellence In Business-education Partnerships
Canadian Championship Dog Derby
Participation Of Business Sector In Development Of Infrastructure
Implementation Of Changes In Staff Housing Strategy
Results Of Meeting With Apex School Students
Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Responses To Outstanding Oral Questions
Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Home Owners' Property Tax Rebate
Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Cancellation Of Learn To Burn Program
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions
Return To Written Question 26-12(3): Local Hiring In Construction Of Winter Road To Lac La Martre
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Members Present
Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Mr. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe
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---Prayer
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Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 1091
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Good afternoon. Before we proceed with the orders of the day, I would like to recognize in the gallery a former colleague, Mr. John T'Seleie.
---Applause
I understand John has been drafted to play for the media hockey team. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Pollard .
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Minister's Statement 68-12(3): Health Billings Dispute
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1091
John Pollard
Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement concerns the health billings dispute with the federal government. On December 8, 1992, the Government of the Northwest Territories began a legal action in the federal court of Canada against the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Health and Welfare Canada.
The legal action is claiming about $80 million in unpaid invoices for hospital care services provided to aboriginal persons in the Northwest Territories. Payment for treatment of aboriginal persons in the NWT is a federal responsibility and is covered under contribution agreements dated October 28, 1986 and August 23, 1989.
The
preamble of the contribution agreement reads as follows, and I quote: "WHEREAS Parliament annually approves the payment of a contribution to the territories (in addition to the amount payable pursuant to the Hospital Insurance and Diagnostic Services Act) so calculated that Canada will assume the total cost of hospital care provided to status Indians and Inuit as interpreted in the Indian Act."
Clause one of both agreements states, and I quote: "This contribution is being made available to the territories for the purpose of financing the total cost of hospital care for status Indians and Inuit."
Mr. Speaker, it is the position of the GNWT that Canada's legal obligations under these contribution agreements were not altered by the 1988 health transfer agreement, although the method of calculating the reciprocal billing amounts was affected slightly. During the year 1990, disputes between Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories arose relating to aspects of the calculation of hospital costs and the legal status of nursing stations providing care.
During subsequent discussion between officials, Canada began to advance the position that the 1988 health transfer agreement had devolved to the GNWT all responsibility for the provision and funding of hospital care for aboriginal persons.
This position is advanced by Mr. Richard Van Loon, who was then the assistant deputy minister of the Department of Indian and Northern Development, in his letter of April 4,1991, to Mr. Bob Cowcill, former deputy minister of Health for the GNWT. Mr. Van Loon states, and I quote:
"DIAND's position is that Health and Welfare Canada transferred, and the GNWT accepted, a fully funded hospital and health care system when it took over the responsibility for the Baffin health services in 1986 and 1987 and the remainder of nursing stations and health services in the west in 1988. The acceptance of these program transfers also assumes GNWT's responsibility for the subsequent delivery and complete funding of these services to all residents from existing financial resources."
Mr. Speaker, it has always been the understanding and position of the GNWT that the effect of the 1988 health transfer was to mandate the GNWT to deliver, but not to fund, hospital care to aboriginal persons. This position was clearly articulated by the Government Leader , the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea in her letter of September 28, 1991, to the Honourable Tom Siddon when she stated, and I quote:
"With each of the successive health transfers, the GNWT assumed the full service delivery responsibility for the areas affected and the financial risk for growth beyond the health transfer funding amounts received for Health headquarters costs, medical travel (excluding the non-insured co-payment for status Indian and Inuit), and for hospital and medical care services for non-natives. The GNWT was, however, afforded protection through the DIAND contribution agreements against escalating hospital and medical care costs beyond any transferred amounts received for Indians and Inuit.
"In our view, DIAND must recognize its fundamental responsibilities to registered Indians and Inuit, which were not altered by the transfer of health services, and the unique role of GNWT as the agent of DIAND in managing a health services delivery system on their behalf through a legal agreement. We believe we are doing so in an effective, efficient, and culturally sensitive manner."
Paragraph 32 of the statement of defence states, in part, and I quote: "The phased devolution and all associated federal funding provided a complete and unified health service for status Indians and Inuit utilizing the hospitals, nursing stations and related health services previously operated by the Department of National Health and Welfare."
Canada goes further and alleges the following in paragraph 34 of the statement of defence, and I quote: "Status Indians and Inuit groups were consulted and they approved of the phased devolution of health services from the Department of National Health and Welfare to the Government of the Northwest Territories."
Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories is determined it must take all lawful steps and means to resist Canada's devolution
interpretation of the 198 health transfer agreement for two basic and compelling reasons:
1. Financial
If the GNWT has total responsibility for the funding of aboriginal hospital care then there is no limit to the amount of financial off-loading that can be done by Canada to the detriment of hospital care for aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories.
---Applause
2. Historical And Political
Historically and continuing to the present day, there has always been a special relationship between Canada and aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories with respect to health care. It would be wrong for Canada and the GNWT to interfere with and change that special relationship without the informed consent of aboriginal people.
---Applause
It is the position of the GNWT that it has not been, nor will it every be, a participant in a transaction which interferes with any special relationship enjoyed by aboriginal people with Canada, unless prior informed consent has been given.
---Applause
The GNWT has made every effort to induce Canada to return to the negotiating table pursuant to finding an interim solution for the next three years. Thereafter, Mr. Speaker, tripartite discussions will have to be held by the Government of the Northwest Territories, Canada and Nunavut to transfer the Nunavut portion of health services.
In the view of the GNWT, if Canada wishes to attempt to devolve aspects of its special health care relationship with aboriginal persons, the opportune time to explore the question is during the Nunavut discussions. Mr. Speaker, Canada refuses to return to the negotiating table and continues to insist that it no longer has any responsibility for aboriginal hospital care in the Northwest Territories.
The Government of the Northwest Territories will not materially interfere with the special relationship between Canada and aboriginal peoples concerning health care, without first obtaining the informed consent of the aboriginal people.
Accordingly, the GNWT can never acquiesce or agree to Canada's devolution
interpretation of the 1988 health transfer agreement.
As a result, the Government of the Northwest Territories has instructed its lawyers to take the position that if the court accepts that the legal effect of the 1988 health transfer agreement is to devolve all responsibility for aboriginal hospital care to the GNWT, then the court must go on to rescind the 1988 health transfer agreement on the basis of mistake or fundamental error as to the nature and effect of the agreement. If the court was to order rescission the result would be a return to Canada of the hospitals, nursing stations, equipment and personnel that were transferred in 1988.
Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories regrets exposing the current health system to the possibility of being returned to Canada, but there is no other reasonable alternative presently available to resolve the impasse with Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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Minister's Statement 68-12(3): Health Billings Dispute
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1092
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Pollard . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo .
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Minister's Statement 69-12(3): Winners Of The National Awards For Excellence In Business-education Partnerships
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1092
Richard Nerysoo
Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories strives for excellence in its programs and services. I am pleased to announce that the conference board of Canada selected Qitiqliq School in Arviat as a 1992-93 winner of the national award for excellence in business-education partnerships in the elementary and secondary category...
---Applause
...and Arctic College and the NWT tourism training group as a winner in the post-secondary category.
---Applause
A community planning team made up of representatives of Qitiqliq School and other partners in Arviat have been developing innovative approaches to secondary programming since 1990 in areas such as trades technologies, business and entrepreneurship, as well as skills for independent living.
In the trades area a local business, Leonard & Associates Ltd, has agreed to participate in partnership with the school to provide students with a mentor, job shadowing and work exposure. Students gain employment skills and practical experience in using tools and equipment. The school has also developed an office management services and local organizations have referred their bookkeeping and secretarial work to the school business program.
Qitiqliq School exemplifies the kind of success we can experience when secondary programs are extended to communities. In 1992 this school graduated 12 students from the grade 12 program. Businesses and other organizations are full partners with Qitiqliq School and the school's accomplishments are a source of community pride.
The winners in the post-secondary category, Arctic College and the NWT tourism training group, have been working together since 1989 in the delivery of tourism training. So far the college has trained over 400 people for the NWT tourism industry, 90 per cent of whom are aboriginal residents.
Programs such as guide training, tourism management and hospitality training are offered as part of tourism training. In partnership with the NWT tourism training group, the college is striving to develop professionalism and quality service in the NWT tourism industry.
I congratulate the community of Arviat, Arctic College and the NWT tourism group for their accomplishments. These two successful partnerships between business and education are achievements we all can be proud of. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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Minister's Statement 69-12(3): Winners Of The National Awards For Excellence In Business-education Partnerships
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1093
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford .
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Canadian Championship Dog Derby
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1093
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Among the other things which are happening in our city this week, up to 20 dog mushers, their dog teams and handlers are converging on Yellowknife to compete in the classic 150 mile Canadian championship dog derby. Teams may come from the United States, Alaska, Yukon, the provinces and from many parts of our territory to compete for over $30,000 in prizes and prestigious trophies.
The Canadian championship dog derby started more than three decades ago with trappers gathering to compete on Yellowknife Bay, and racing out to the sub-islands in fairly primitive trails by today's standards. What first started out as a friendly get together to celebrate the coming of spring and to show off the strength and stamina of both dogs and their owners, has evolved into a world class event and specialized racing dogs. Yellowknife is still unique in the world of dog team racing.
Few races of this class, in Canada or the United States, can boast of the stamina which is required given the overall distance and weather conditions, three heats of 50 miles a day for a total of 150 miles. Most other races across North America are anywhere from five to 20 miles and are usually held over a two day period. Only the world championship held at The Pas in Manitoba is 150 miles long and held over three days. Mr. Speaker, our NWT mushers are indeed world class in this sport.
I would like to recognize their contribution to this traditional Metis sport and to the pride of the Northwest Territories in this sport.
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Canadian Championship Dog Derby
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1093
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis .
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Participation Of Business Sector In Development Of Infrastructure
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1093
Brian Lewis
Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been concerned for many years about the inclination of governments across the country to seek a big bang solution to economic problems. It has long been my opinion that mega projects such as a natural gas pipeline or massive mining projects would proceed despite what governments do and not because of what governments do. They would be largely self-financed and what they would ask from government is consistency, stability, fairness and the clear framework from which they can operate. They do very little to advance our economy for the long-term growth of our people.
They often help to create a boom and bust cycle which is socially destabilizing. However, in the large Canadian context they help fill the federal government coffers where we have to recognize we get 85 per cent of our money from. It is obviously in our interest to make sure that they proceed and that we do not put unnecessary obstacles in their paths. The mistake is in believing that mega projects will provide a future for our people. We have a small population spread over a very large area.
The challenge for our people is to identify some small niches where we can support the few families in every community if possible.
This afternoon, Mr. Speaker, there is a very important session at the winter cities convention dealing with the issue of transportation. I shall be absent from the House because this is of great concern to my constituents and of interest to many people of the Northwest Territories, and it may have some impact into our future economic development. Thank you.
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Participation Of Business Sector In Development Of Infrastructure
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1093
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe .
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Implementation Of Changes In Staff Housing Strategy
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1093
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few months honourable Members and government employees have been concerned about the implementation of the government staff housing strategy. On March 11, 1993 discussions were held in this House and Motion 81-12(3) was passed in committee of the whole. This motion detailed some of the strategies and directions that ordinary Members felt were fair in implementing the strategy. During the discussions the Minister of Personnel responded to the motion expressing the government's concerns regarding the motion and what they could or could not accept.
However, to date we have not heard any official response from the Cabinet on this motion. Mr. Speaker, there is still much confusion in the communities and tenants are still
not aware of the official position and strategy at this time. I understand that a letter has been sent to all tenants on March 17, 1993, and it details the changes made to the staff housing strategy. In the letter, implementation dates have been specified. I believe it is 15 per cent on August 1, 1993, 15 per cent on August 1, 1994, and increased to full market rent on August 1, 1995. There were many other issues and items detailed in this letter to the staff. Mr. Speaker, I am concerned that, again, this government is proceeding full boar on a strategy without consulting MLAs. Mr. Speaker, I will be raising questions on this issue at a later time today. Mahsi.
---Applause
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Implementation Of Changes In Staff Housing Strategy
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Koe . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson .
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Results Of Meeting With Apex School Students
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, I had the pleasure of visiting Nanook School in Apex. I visited some very dedicated young people in class. At the time I visited they were discussing leadership. The children and their very dedicated staff, including the caretaker, Mr. Aku Kownirk are making the very best of their temporary accommodation at the old IODE hall.
Also, they have been very closely following the political process, discussions in this House, letters from the Minister of Public Works , the Baffin Divisional Board of Education, the Minister of Education , the Niaqunguut Education Council about their new school. The students have seen the plans and they have participated in discussions about the site. This process has been a great education in the political process for these children. I do hope their involvement in this process will lead to good results.
Mr. Speaker, these children are very anxious to have a gym in their new school. They want to find ways of actively participating in the decision-making process. They have given me a package of messages they made themselves, including drawings of each MLA, including the Minister of Education . I will now distribute these. Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that these young people have taken it upon themselves to participate in our political process. They also told me that in addition to these messages, they will now be praying for a new gym. So will I. Qujannamiik. Thank you.
---Applause
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Results Of Meeting With Apex School Students
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Patterson . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .
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Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Finance , the Honourable John Pollard , made a statement today about the health billings dispute. I am finding it very difficult to sit back and not say anything about it. Mr. Speaker, I am a treaty Indian and I am proud to be Dene. This dispute affects my immediate family and the majority of the people in my constituency that I represent in this Legislative Assembly.
The people who are non-aboriginal or Metis people in my constituency understand that the majority of people in my constituency are treaty and running for this position, I indicated to people that one of the issues which has to be cleared up is the issue between treaty Indian people in the west and the federal government. This government does not take that very seriously because there are many chiefs and band councils in the west who are saying that there are programs and services which they are entitled to that are being handled in a public government forum, and they are not satisfied with that arrangement.
This health billings dispute is a good example, Mr. Speaker, about that arrangement.
The Government of the Northwest Territories has made arrangements with the federal government to provide health services to treaty Indians and Inuit. In my particular case -- I am speaking only about treaty Indians -- treaty rights are in jeopardy. There is a danger and I am scared of this situation on behalf of the treaty Indians in the west. My rights are being negotiated between this government and the federal government, and the treaty Indians themselves who are going to be affected by the results of this dispute are not directly involved. They have to be involved.
---Applause
I know the federal government's position...
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Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Antoine , your allotted time has elapsed.
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Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue. Mahsi.
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Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine .
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Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the federal government's position says that the status Indian and Inuit groups were consulted and they approved of the phased devolution of health services from the federal government to the Government of the Northwest Territories. I totally disagree with that. Never, in my opinion, was approval or consent given. My understanding is that the territorial government will administer the health services on behalf of the federal government. Otherwise, if the treaty Indians knew this was the case, they would never have approved this arrangement in this first place. Mahsi.
---Applause
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Health Billings Dispute Affect On Treaty Indians
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1094
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd .
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Return To Question 484-12(3): Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 1094
John Todd
Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell with respect to the purpose of licences to retailers.
Section 58(1) of the Liquor Act requires that all money received from licence fees are deposited to the credit of the Government of the Northwest Territories in a special account called the "liquor revolving fund." Subsection 58(2) states, "all other money derived from the administration shall be deposited in the consolidated revenue fund." The fact money received from licence fees are deposited to the consolidated revenue fund implies that at least part of the purpose of the fee is to raise government revenue.
The act empowers the Liquor Licensing Board to make regulations "prescribing the rights, privileges, conditions and obligations attaching to the licences" and also to fix the fees that are payable. Holding a liquor licence is a privilege, and is a privilege for which a licence fee must be paid.
There are many other privileges for which the government charges a fee. For example, there is a fee to register a vehicle and another fee to drive a vehicle. There is a fee for a hunting licence and a separate graduated fee for hunting tags. All of these fees produce revenues. Thank you.
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Return To Question 484-12(3): Purpose Of Licence Fee For Retailers
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 1095
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 464-12(3): Impact Of Changes To Federal Uic Legislation
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 1095
John Pollard
Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to oral question, asked by Mr. Gargan on March 11, 1993, regarding the impact of changes to federal UIC legislation.
On December 2, 1992, as part of the economic statement, the federal Minister of Finance announced a number of changes to the Unemployment Insurance Act. These changes included:
1. A freeze on unemployment insurance premium rates for employees and employers, at 1992 levels;
2. An exemption from additional UI premiums for small businesses which increase employment;
3. A freeze on average UI benefits at 1992-93 levels; and,
4. Disqualification from receiving benefits for those who quit their jobs without just cause, or who are fired for cause.
The first change will benefit all employers and employees in the Northwest Territories, including the Government of the Northwest Territories. The second change will benefit new and small businesses in the Northwest Territories and will provide an incentive to create employment. The third change will mean that benefit levels for NWT recipients in 1993-94 will not increase. Finally, the last change will reduce slightly the number of eligible claims from what would otherwise be the case. In 1992, approximately six per cent of UI claimants in Canada fell into these categories. The corresponding percentage for the Northwest Territories is not available.
As a result of representations by various interest groups, the legislation originally tabled in the House of Commons has been amended to broaden the definition of "just cause." Nine reasons are being added to the five reasons already in the Unemployment Insurance Act.
In 1992, on average, there were 1,866 recipients of regular unemployment insurance benefits in the Northwest Territories. On average, the total amount of monthly regular benefits paid out was $2.4 million.
There will be no change in the treatment of seasonal workers such as fishermen, fire fighters or surveyors, who are laid off at the end of their employment. Seasonal employees, as with all employees in the Northwest Territories, will need 20 weeks of employment in the last year to qualify for benefits. However, if they have worked at least 14 weeks in the year before that, only 10 weeks are required in the last year to qualify for benefits. These eligibility criteria have not changed as a result of the amended legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 464-12(3): Impact Of Changes To Federal Uic Legislation
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 1095
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe .
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Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1095
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement today I raised issues related to the implementation of the long-term government staff housing strategy. A motion was passed in this Assembly on March 11, 1993, giving direction to the government on implementation of the strategy. However, it seems that the government has ignored some of our recommendations and wrote a letter to all tenants on March 17 outlining what their implementation plan is. Mr. Speaker, the MLAs were not even given a copy of this letter, nor were they notified of the implementation strategy.
My question to the Minister of Personnel is, when does the Minister intend to officially notify this House on their response to Motion 81-12(3)?
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Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1095
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1095
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, it appears we may have had a misunderstanding. When the strategy was discussed and debated in committee of the whole on March 11, just prior to the vote taking place, I responded to the motion and indicated at that time to the Members of the Legislature that as a Cabinet we had discussed some of the concerns which had been shared with us from the ordinary Members in earlier discussions that week. As a result, I was prepared to make some amendments to the strategy. This was to reflect a definitive Cabinet position in response to the debate. The comments I made at that time are contained in Hansard and I will go through them rather quickly.
First of all, we agreed the strategy should be implemented over a longer period of time. We were concerned and did not agree that we should establish another steering committee, but I supported the idea of keeping MLAs informed, perhaps, by designating two MLAs to keep in touch with me and to work with them on an informal basis, to work through problems as they arose. Once we dealt with the motion and changes to the strategy, the matter should be handed over to officials to manage within the rules which we set.
I indicated that officials would be directed to start rental increases on August 1, 1993, with further increases over the following two years until full rents are reached on August 1, 1995. Our calculations indicated an increase of 15 per cent per year to base rents would be required to equalize the three increases. Rental increases would only be applied to base rents which do not include utility charge costs and that was a change from the original package as we had proposed.
We felt the 15 per cent on base rent was, in fact, a better deal with less impact than the 10 per cent on the full rent, as proposed by the Members. We suggested that we would introduce the standard accommodation allowance to all level III communities this year. We would, after calculating a 15 per cent rent increase to the rents of the people in the level III communities, add that on to the base rent and then add the other base rents back on it, plus the $450 and introduce the standard accommodation allowance, just so there is not such a large gap in the level of rents.
We went on to suggest that all staff units will have an energy audit to be assessed for sale. In cases where the fuel or electrical bills, for instance, are unusually high we would go in and ensure that it would either be repaired or the rent would be lowered in a manner which would be fair. I indicated those were being made to meet the spirit of the motion.
I regret that the Member misunderstood what the intent of my comments were, but it was to meet clearly the demands of the motion. We did not meet all of them, but that was the extent to which Cabinet was prepared to go. Thank you.
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Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .
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Supplementary To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I was not 100 per cent certain that the comments you made on that date, March 11, were the official position, since in your
preamble you stated, "We are prepared to make some amendments to the strategy which is called for in the proposed motion in which the Members are going to vote on." No amendments were officially proposed at that time. Then, you proceeded with the statements which you just quoted. I am a little confused and so are tenants as to what the official position is. One of the items in the motion passed by this Assembly, and you alluded to it, was that a working group be established to oversee and advise the government and report in the next and future sessions of the Assembly. Will the Minister be establishing a working group as per Motion 81-12(3)?
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Supplementary To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Further Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the record, the changes that I indicated in my response to the motion on March 11 have been approved by Cabinet. The changes are a reflection of Cabinet position. We had no intention to set up another working group to oversee the implementation of this strategy. We felt that perhaps it is time for officials to get on with carrying out the work as set out by the Legislature and Cabinet, but I would be prepared to work with MLAs or a couple of designated MLAs who may want to take on the responsibility of keeping their fellow MLAs involved and informed over the next few months.
I know the intensive work load of Cabinet and MLAs and the increase in limited resources we have. The Cabinet and I felt that it is not feasible to set up a formal working group. However, we would be prepared to work with a couple of MLAs on an informal basis.
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Further Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Koe .
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Supplementary To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Many times the Minister has stated that he will keep MLAs informed and will talk to MLAs on this issue, yet on March 17, a letter was sent to tenants with much detail on all aspects of the implementation strategy and we as MLAs were not even given the courtesy of being informed or given a copy of this letter. Why were MLAs not informed or given copies of the implementation strategy, the details which were passed out to tenants?
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Supplementary To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Further Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, there was no attempt to deliberately not inform MLAs, it was my understanding that the debate, the subsequent motion and the response to the public and the tenants gave some finality to this issue. It was my view that the issue was largely resolved, to continue to debate and seek further changes to this strategy at this time would become counterproductive and continue the unease and instability which some of the employees felt at the time. The information in the letter which the Member has referred to has not gone out yet. I think it is being drafted to go out.
There is an update which was intended for employees to apprise them of what changes have occurred as a result of the debate on March 11.
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Further Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe .
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Supplementary To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One other item which was in the motion passed by this Assembly was that the NWT property tax rebate be reinstated at $400 per year. In the Minister's response if it is the official position of the Cabinet, no mention was made to this item. Can the Minister please advise us as to their official position on this issue?
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Supplementary To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Further Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1096
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, the issue of the tax rebate was one that arose in the course of discussions by MLAs in the latter part of the debate in the back room. As the Minister of Personnel , I could not find a way, in the few days I had, to rationalize how it tied into the staff housing strategy. So, I had no mandate from the Cabinet to respond to it. That was the reason. It was not directly or easily tied into the
housing strategy and the elements which we had set out at that time.
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Further Return To Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Question 561-12(3): Response To Committee Motion 81-12(3) Re Staff Housing Strategy
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .
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Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to Mr. Koe 's questions, some of my constituents have received a letter dated March 17 signed by Ken Lovely, deputy minister of Personnel, with a seven page attachment outlining adjustments to the long-term staff housing strategy which I will table later today. Mr. Speaker, one of the concerns which was expressed in the motion before this House earlier in committee of the whole was about the legality of the actions being taken by the Department of Personnel, whether they were acting in accordance with the Residential Tenancies Act. The letter from Mr.
Lovely refers to the Landlord Tenants Act and that notices will conform to the format set out in the Landlord Tenants Act. Mr. Speaker, in searching the statutes of this Assembly I cannot find any reference to the Landlord Tenants Act except reference to
an act that was repealed in 1987. I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel , since this act is repealed and it is referred to in the deputy minister's letter of March 17, 1993, which legislation is the Department of Personnel using in determining its legal obligations as a landlord to its tenants? Thank you.
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Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Return To Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, the Residential Tenancies Act.
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Return To Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .
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Supplementary To Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is obviously a major error in the information which has been given out to my constituents about this policy, Mr. Speaker, because it refers to
an act which does not exist. Mr. Speaker, this same letter also repeats earlier statements in documents tabled by the Minister that tenants will get a rent increase effective August 1, and that if they do not agree to sign a new lease, they will then have an electrical charge added to their rent which reflects average community consumption at the higher rate per kilowatt hour which the government is obliged to pay. I think the Minister has seen a legal opinion that was provided to me through the offices of the law clerk which indicates that it would be illegal to make more than two rent changes in a year.
I wonder if the Minister could tell me whether this legal opinion has been taken into account in the drafting of the letter of March 17, 1993, which seems to propose two rent increases in a year, contrary to the Residential Tenancies Act? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
According to our rules, that particular question asks the Minister for his
interpretation of a legal opinion and is not proper under our rules, Mr. Patterson . Would you like to re-phrase that question? Mr. Patterson .
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Supplementary To Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, I will ask it as a written question. Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Question 562-12(3): Legislation Used Re Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Question 563-12(3): Responses To Outstanding Oral Questions
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Government Leader . Since the Members are hoping to conclude the budget by the end of the month and hope that the session can come to a conclusion fairly quickly, there are a number of outstanding questions posed to the government to various Ministers which remain unanswered today. Would the Government Leader make every effort on behalf of the government to reply to the outstanding oral questions, perhaps by the end of the week if at all possible? Thank you.
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Question 563-12(3): Responses To Outstanding Oral Questions
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Madam Premier .
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Question 563-12(3): Responses To Outstanding Oral Questions
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Nellie Cournoyea
Nunakput
Mr. Speaker, I am aware there are some outstanding questions and of the request to have the responses as quickly as possible, hopefully we will have them by the end of the week. Thank you.
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Question 563-12(3): Responses To Outstanding Oral Questions
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine .
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Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance regarding the health billings dispute statement he made today. My concern is, the people who are affected by this legal action which is taking place do not know what is going on and how this issue is going to affect them. What is the Minister doing to inform the public about this crises to the treaty and Inuit people? Thank you.
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Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, last July, I believe it was, our Premier called together the leaders of the aboriginal groups in the Northwest Territories and from southern Canada, and there was a discussion on this health billings dispute and how it affected aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories, and how it might affect people south of the 60th parallel, as well. We had agreement at the table at that time, that we would keep those people updated as to the status of our claim. That has been done and there is another letter which has just gone out, I believe yesterday, that did the same sort of thing.
There will be information provided to MLAs so they can advise their constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1097
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .
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Supplementary To Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to the statement that the Minister made earlier today, there is legal action that the federal government is not reimbursing to the territorial government for hospital care services for status Indians and Inuit people. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the nature of this dispute? When did this dispute start? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Two questions for Mr. Pollard .
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Supplementary To Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the question as notice and I would like to reply in writing because it is fairly technical. It involves the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, the federal Department of Health, transfers into our base, our formula funding agreement with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs and it is a very complicated situation which has arisen. I would like to reply in writing, taking the question as notice to read it into the record, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Question 564-12(3): Actions To Inform The Public Re Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
The question has been taken as notice. If I can make one comment, this particular issue is a difficult one for the Legislative Assembly to deal with because it is a matter before the courts. It is a civil matter and the line of questioning as put forward by Mr. Antoine I will allow, because I can see no harm to an individual coming from those questions. I ask both Members and Ministers to be very cautious in the questions that are asked and the responses that Ministers may make on this particular issue. However, the question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent .
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Question 565-12(3): Home Owners' Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was surprised a few minutes ago to hear the Minister of Personnel say that he could not rationalize the home owner tax rebate as encouraging or being part of the long-term staff housing strategy. He therefore had no mandate to go to Cabinet to talk about having it reinstated. Mr.
Speaker, the motion itself, right at the primary paragraph where it says, "Now therefore I move" if I can quote from Hansard was, "The primary objectives of the GNWT long-term staff housing strategy be accepted by this committee, encouraging home ownership." That is the first object which is quoted by this motion as the goal. Will the Minister tell me how encouraging home ownership is not served by increasing the home owner's property tax rebate?
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Question 565-12(3): Home Owners' Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Kakfwi .
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Question 565-12(3): Home Owners' Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I should clarify my comments. It is not to belittle the suggestion made by the Members. The suggestion first surfaced a few days before the March 11 debate. I did not want to be accused of doing a fly-by-night strategy which some Members have been prone to suggesting over the months that we have had this debate going in the newspapers and on the radios across the north. The property tax rebate, for the Member's information, came up just a few days before the debate in this House.
All I was suggesting was that from the beginning, we had certain elements which were included in our staff housing strategy. The property tax rebate, as run by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, was not an element in that strategy. So, I had not included it in my response since Cabinet and myself felt it was a separate issue. Thank you.
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Question 565-12(3): Home Owners' Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, on February 19, I asked the Minister of the Housing Corporation a question on the new home ownership program. I asked if a person could own the land outright, or whether a band could grant land. The Minister said that people could own the land outright or have a lease on the land. I wanted to make it clear, Mr. Speaker, that I am referring to band lands. Can the Minister advise if a person can have a lease on band lands in order to get access to a home ownership program? Thank you.
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Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think the bands lease the land to their members. I think it is done by band council resolution. Thank you.
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Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Supplementary To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
I recognize that band lands, Crown lands for band members, are designated for use by a particular band member. However, Mr. Speaker, I am not clear as to whether the new home ownership program allows for the band to designate that land, or whether they have to be under a lease through a band council resolution in order to be eligible for the new home ownership program. Can the Minister clarify that, please?
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Supplementary To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Further Return To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding is that the bands assign the lots to the clients. Thank you.
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Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Supplementary To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1098
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
All right, maybe I will try it in another context, Mr. Speaker. On February 19, I had asked the Minister of the Housing Corporation if he would review and
determine the eligibility for lands which are to be used in order to access the new home ownership program and to advise the House of the particular criteria. Mr. Speaker, the Minister said at the time that he would do this, however I have not received a response with respect to that as of yet. I will make my questioning simpler in order to get an answer. Can the Minister tell the House today what is the eligibility for lands which are to be used in order to access the new home ownership program, particularly for band members? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Further Return To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The question which was asked on February 19, was replied to, Mr. Speaker, on February 26. Units delivered under the access program can be built on the following types of land: fee simple titled land; long-term leased land; and, band land, also known as Indian Affairs branch, (IAB) land or land reserved for Indian use, as long as a band council resolution is obtained allowing long-term use of the land.
These are the same criteria for land tenure that were used in the previous home ownership assistance program, the HAP program. I made that reply on February 26. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Supplementary To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, thank you. The Minister has somewhat set out the criteria in respect to the eligibility for lands in order to access the home ownership program. However, I have been advised that the Housing Corporation is changing its housing programs for the access, particularly because now it is seeking repayment for loans in connection with the houses which it builds. Can the Minister inform the House whether CMHC has placed any restrictions on the corporation as far as its housing programs are concerned, particularly when they are designated for band members? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Further Return To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under the CMHC cost-shared program, we do not have any programs which are designated for band members. They are designated for the general public and we have to follow CMHC's programs and policies whenever we deliver any cost-shared program. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Question 566-12(3): Access To Hap Programs On Leased Band Land
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. You had your final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell . Mr. Patterson .
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been questions asked earlier this session about the proposed transfer of the parks division of Economic Development and Tourism to Renewable Resources. In her response on Wednesday, March 17, I believe in the absence of the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Ms. Cournoyea said this is not a new issue, it has been studied before. I would like to ask the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , what studies or reviews have lead the department to consider this transfer and, particularly, was this motivated by the Strength at Two Levels report which was one of the first documents tabled by this government once it came into office? Thank you.
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, I think when Madam Premier said that this was not a new idea, it was something which was discussed in the last Legislature, especially by committee, I believe.
It was a suggestion from Renewable Resources, to the then Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , that the parks area and also the exploratory fishing area, areas which are of interest to Renewable Resources, be transferred over to Renewable Resources, and that the business side of using the parks, advertising for visitors to come to the Northwest Territories, encouraging people to start up fishing lodges and then encouraging people to use those fishing lodges be handled by the Department of Economic Development and Tourism.
It makes some sense because then you are not setting the quota or determining the parks, and also trying to encourage as many people as possible to use those quotas in parks. That is where it came from, whether there was a formal study, Mr. Speaker, I do not know, but I know it was looked at by both departments in the last Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .
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Supplementary To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can tell the Minister that the Strength at Two Levels report, which I think the government does give some currency to, studied the issue, and that may be the most recent study, and recommended that it is the integrated division of parks and tourism which should be transferred to Renewable Resources.
Since parks and tourism are obviously linked, if the tourism division is not being proposed to be transferred to Renewable Resources, does the Minister agree, in light of this close linkage between parks and tourism, that new resources will be required in the Department of Renewable Resources which are not there now, to develop products, to promote and market the parks and to train outfitters and the like. Have these additional staff requirements been developed and calculated? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1099
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, I would not say we were into that kind of detail at the present time. I know there have been discussions between the deputy minister of Renewable Resources and the deputy minister of Economic Development and Tourism. This stems from the practice in other jurisdictions. If I could give a small example, Mr. Speaker. For instance, in Banff National Park, the visitors to that park became so many and the hikers, in particular, wanting to travel a particular trail became so many, that there were only so many people allowed on the trail at any given time.
It becomes a question of wise use of land resources and what other jurisdictions have looked at, what we are looking at, and someone has to say "How much can the land take? How much fish can you take? How much use can you make of a particular park area?"
On the other side, there is a group of people out there saying "Let us bring more visitors to the park, let us bring more visitors into the Northwest Territories." So, it is very difficult to be the promoter of a park, in my opinion, and also be the person who wants to conserve the park. For that reason, I personally support the division of these two responsibilities, so there is a balance. Then, people can say "Renewable Resources says you cannot do this and it is getting overcrowded." It is not seen as a conflict, Mr. Speaker.
There is also a clarification of roles, who does what and who trains people. This can be done by dividing the two responsibilities. There may be some requirement in future for more resources, that is yet to be worked out. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .
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Supplementary To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, I am intrigued that the Minister says we are not into that kind of detail, such as person years and budgets, and roles and responsibilities. The Government Leader said earlier the plan has not been concluded, the work has not been done and it would be premature to put anything on the table or present anything to the working group. In light of all of these comments, which indicate a great deal of work is yet to be done, why have the staff in the department been told that they are working to a preconceived July 1 deadline, if all this work and thinking has yet to be done? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, we do not want to keep it a secret from the people who are going to be ultimately affected by this change, and obviously if they are the people delivering the programs, then we are going to have to consult with them to find out what these details might be.
We cannot run around like thieves in the night and say "I guess it is going to be this much." We are trying to involve those people and, ultimately, they are going to have to give us their expertise and tell us what those details, allocations and responsibilities have to be, and if there is any legislation that has to change as a result of a transfer. There has been no date decided upon. They may have been told July 1, which may be the date we are requiring implementation by, but to my knowledge there is no firm date of July 1, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Patterson .
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Supplementary To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is all very helpful to me in understanding what is being planned. I take it, from the Minister's previous comments, that regional staff, superintendents and the zone and regional tourism associations will be consulted and have a chance to have input into this major reorganization before the plan is finalized? Thank you.
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, obviously we will be consulting with our staff, and the staff in the regions will give us the views of the people who ultimately might be affected. Their views will be taken into consideration, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
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Question 567-12(3): Transfer Of Parks Division To Renewable Resources
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent .
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Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had some problem with the Minister of Personnel's response earlier to my question about the property tax rebate. He seemed to suggest that because it appeared to come in at the last minute, that it was not worthy of consideration. What is interesting is that the whole staff housing strategy appeared to be something that was developed at the last minute and was constantly changing. I think that is what most of us were saying. However, he did correctly point out that the Minister responsible for the property tax rebate would be the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.
How does the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs intend to respond to Committee Motion 81-12(3), which included the
section on reinstating the NWT property tax rebate?
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Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Allooloo .
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Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
Titus Allooloo
Amittuq
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Through the normal process, in order to get more money and programs into a department, would be through the OPPLAN process. Thank you.
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Return To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1100
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .
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Supplementary To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For greater clarity, could the Minister advise as to what sort of time frame he expects the OPPLAN process to take?
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Supplementary To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Allooloo .
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Further Return To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Titus Allooloo
Amittuq
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My experience with the OPPLAN process varies from starting in May up until September, between that period of time, where the government gets together and does an OPPLAN process to come up with a budget which the Legislative Assembly will ultimately have to approve through this process. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Dent .
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Supplementary To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given the importance of the new staff housing strategy and the importance of encouraging home ownership, will the Minister commit to giving this issue the upmost in consideration as soon as possible?
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Supplementary To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Allooloo .
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Further Return To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Titus Allooloo
Amittuq
Yes.
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Further Return To Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Question 568-12(3): Response To Motion On Property Tax Rebate
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford .
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Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . Mr. Speaker, for many years the freshwater fish marketing board out of Hay River has had a boat they use to collect fish on Great Slave Lake. Also they would use this boat to re-supply the fishermen out on the lake. The boat was called the "MV Broadhead". This boat was sold, Mr. Speaker, and the fish which were previously collected by this boat were flown from the catch areas to Hay River at great cost to the fishermen.
The fishermen expressed concerns, the other day, that the freshwater fish marketing corporation is now contemplating yet another boat to haul this fish. They were also concerned that this government was assisting them to make this purchase. I would like to ask the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism whether his department is involved in any agreement to purchase a fish collection boat for the fishermen of Great Slave Lake?
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Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Return To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
John Pollard
Hay River
Not to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
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Return To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
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Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Whitford .
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Supplementary To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In order to put this matter to rest, will the Minister indicate whether he would look into this matter to see if his department is contemplating assisting the freshwater fish marketing corporation to purchase a boat?
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Supplementary To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
John Pollard
Hay River
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Whitford .
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Supplementary To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you. Will the Minister have that information before the end of the session?
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Supplementary To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
John Pollard
Hay River
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Question 569-12(3): Ffmc Fish Collection Boat For Great Slave Lake Fishermen
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation. Under the Housing Corporation's new initiative, what was considered as the forgivable loan concept has gone with the new type of home ownership programs now in place. Individuals who have homes built for them must now pay the Housing Corporation back over a 15 year time period.
Recognizing that the Housing Corporation is going to want some type of security for its cost of home building, can the Minister inform the House what sort of registerable security documentation it would require from those individuals building a home on band lands under one of the new Housing Corporation's housing programs? Thank you.
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Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1101
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Units delivered under the access programs will require the following types of lands, fee simple titled land, long-term lease land, or band land also known as Indian Affairs branch land, IAB land, or land reserved for Indian use, as long as a band council resolution is obtained allowing long-term use of the land. Long-term use meaning 15 years. Thank you.
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Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Supplementary To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, is this clearly understood by the Housing Corporation's new housing programs eligibility criteria that as long as a BCR, band council resolution, is obtained to designate a certain piece of Crown land, that that can be used as a security document in order to obtain a housing program for a band member? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Further Return To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think the band can give a band council resolution for Crown land. It is my understanding that band land is land reserved for Indian use, and designated as such.
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Further Return To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Supplementary To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, all band lands are Crown lands. Can the Minister indicate whether a band council resolution would be a form of a security document in order for band members to access the new home ownership program? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Further Return To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In order to obtain an access program unit from the NWT Housing Corporation, if you were to build on band lands, you need a motion, a band council resolution to do that. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .
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Supplementary To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Jeannie Marie-Jewell
Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, for my final supplementary, the same question which I have asked three times in a different format. Is the Minister stating that the security document allowing a band member to get access to a home ownership program is by band council resolution designating a particular parcel of land as sufficient for the Housing Corporation? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Morin .
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Further Return To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
Don Morin
Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It would depend on who the land was designated for.
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Further Return To Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Question 570-12(3): Hap Funding For Leases On Band Lands
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 1102
The Speaker
Michael Balla