Debates of Nov. 4th, 2010

This is page numbers 5493 - 5530 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was territories .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 86-16(5): Next Steps Towards Devolution

Minister’s Statement 87-16(5): Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

White Ribbon Campaign To Oppose Violence Against Women

Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Tribute To The Late Colleen Sayine-Burke

Protection And Preservation Of The Edhezhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Thomas Manuel Sr. Medal For Bravery

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Community Harvesters Assistance Program

Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Protection And Preservation Of Edehzhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Return To Written Question 15-16(5): Core Housing Needs

Return To Written Question 16-16(5): Costs Of Devolution Negotiations

Hunting Tags For Bluenose Caribou Outfitters

Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Review Of Income Security Framework

Caribou Outfitter Supports

Public Works And Services’ Tendering Practices

Facilitating The Purchase Of Public Housing Units

Mackenzie Delta Orthodontic Services

Contribution For Fort Liard Search And Rescue Efforts

Tabled Document 123-16(5): Senior Households In Core Need By Community, 2009 Tabled Document 124-16(5): Core Need For Single Member Households (Under 60 Years Old), Winter 2009 Tabled Document 125-16(5): Core Need For Size Of Household, Winter 2009

Tabled Document 126-16(5): Cost Of Devolution Negotiations Tabled Document 127-16(5): Report Respecting Benefits Paid To Ministers Under The Ministerial Benefits Policy For The Fiscal Year Ending March 31, 2010

Tabled Document 128-16(5): 2009 Public Service Annual Report

Tabled Document 129-16(5): Annual Report Of The Equal Pay Commissioner For The Northwest Territories For The Period July 1, 2009, To June 30, 2010

Expanding Student Financial Assistance Program

Recorded Vote

Extended Adjournment Of The House To February 2, 2011

Northern Management Regime For Land And Resources

Recorded Vote

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Report of Committee of the Whole

Assent To Bills

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:40 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. I welcome our guests to the gallery today. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 86-16(5): Next Steps Towards Devolution

Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The transfer of authority for public lands and resources to the Government of the Northwest Territories will create major benefits and opportunities for our people.

Approval of the proposed AIP will be a critical step in our negotiations with Canada, but it is just another step. It is not the final agreement and it will not be legally binding.

Throughout our negotiations, there have been other times when the parties have signed agreements confirming their plans and intentions. We saw this when Canada, the GNWT and aboriginal governments endorsed the Memorandum of Intent in 2001. We saw it again when the Devolution Framework Agreement was signed in 2004. These earlier agreements confirmed the intentions of the parties to work towards a final devolution agreement, set out a process and timeline for negotiations and identified the subjects to be negotiated. Entering into these agreements helped keep negotiations moving forward.

Like earlier agreements, the proposed AIP confirms the intentions of the parties to negotiate a final agreement, sets out the subjects for negotiations and describes the process. It does not answer all the questions or settle all the outstanding issues, but it isn’t supposed to. We are in the process of negotiations and many of the issues that have yet to be decided are precisely the things we will negotiate before reaching a final agreement. The AIP is the roadmap for future negotiations. It was never meant to be the final deal. But we will not

even get to begin these future negotiations if we don’t agree to an AIP first.

Mr. Speaker, aboriginal governments are major land and resource owners in the Northwest Territories and have an important interest in devolution. The GNWT and Canada have funded their participation in negotiations and there has always been a seat for them at the table. We have heard the issues and concerns expressed by aboriginal governments at the negotiating table and we have made every effort to accommodate them.

I know that they still have concerns and I respect that. Some of those concerns can be solved through further devolution negotiations, but some of them are well beyond the scope of devolution. Devolution is about transferring the administration and control of public lands and resources to the GNWT. It is a program transfer between public governments like the ones we have seen before involving health, highways, airports and forestry management.

Mr. Speaker, several leaders have asked for a meeting before we make any decisions on the AIP. I would like to advise Members that tonight I will be meeting with leadership from all the regional aboriginal governments to discuss their issues and concerns with the proposed agreement. I don’t know that we will be able to resolve all those issues this evening, but I do hope that we are able to arrive at an understanding about a way forward that will allow us to keep talking and working together toward devolution.

Mr. Speaker, devolution and resource revenue sharing has been a goal for the NWT for nearly as long as I can remember and it is one of the priorities of this Assembly. For too long, decisions about our public lands and resources have been made in Ottawa. Over the past five years we have missed out an estimated $208 million in resource revenues and we will continue to miss out until we have devolution. It is time that we brought that decision-making power and those revenues home to the GNWT.

Getting control over our lands and resources -- and the revenues associated with them -- will be a key to unlocking a prosperous new future for all NWT residents; a more prosperous future that should be shared by all NWT governments.

Northern leaders have an historic decision to make over the coming weeks. A final devolution agreement will put the people of the Northwest Territories in charge of their land and resources and will create real economic and political benefits for us all. But it starts with this AIP. Without it, we cannot move forward.

Northerners know that we are stronger when we work together. As we consider the AIP that is before us, I call on all Northerners to find the common ground we need to carry on with this process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 86-16(5): Next Steps Towards Devolution

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister’s Statement 87-16(5): Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Ministers’ Statements

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, a significant priority of the 16th Assembly is an

environment that will sustain present and future generations. Climate change remains a serious issue for the people of the Northwest Territories.

The warming of our climate as a result of the release of greenhouse gases has broad implications to our environment and the potential to impact the social, cultural and economic well-being of NWT residents. Our government has taken broad action to support, investigate and implement initiatives to help residents, communities, industry and government departments reduce their greenhouse gas emissions and their reliance on imported fossil fuels.

These actions were laid out in the NWT Greenhouse Gas Strategy released in 2007. The 2007 strategy outlines 39 actions aimed at controlling greenhouse gas emissions and included the goal of reducing emissions from GNWT operations by 10 percent below 2001 levels, by 2011. Actions were shared between Environment and Natural Resources, the Arctic Energy Alliance and other government departments and agencies. Working with our partners, progress has been made on all 39 actions and we are on track to meet, or better, the GNWT emissions reduction target.

Mr. Speaker, it is now time to build upon this success. We must maintain the long-term commitment to reduce our carbon footprint, to reduce our reliance on imported fossil fuels and to expand the use of alternative energy sources. To map the route forward to a low-carbon future, Environment and Natural Resources is leading an initiative to prepare a revised Greenhouse Gas Strategy for 2011 to 2015.

This government is committed to broadening the application of greenhouse gas reduction measures on a territory-wide basis which includes government, business, industry and communities.

The strategy will include a complete assessment of current activities and identify new actions we need to take to move forward in our efforts towards reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Based on this assessment, the strategy will set targets for greenhouse gas emissions reductions across the NWT.

The preparation of a broad strategy requires discussion and input from a range of stakeholders including other departments, communities, residents, businesses, industry and aboriginal governments.

We will be seeking input on the goals, objectives and principles that drive the strategy, on how to improve existing actions so they work better for residents, communities, businesses and industry and on new actions we should be taking.

Initial input has already been obtained from the Joint Climate Change Committee, GNWT departments and the Finance roundtable.

Between now and February, meetings will be arranged across the NWT to coincide with meetings of regional and community boards and councils and business and industry associations. I will provide standing committee with an update on progress on these consultations in February. Once stakeholder input has been received, a draft strategy will be developed and circulated for broad stakeholder and public review. It is our intention to have a revised Greenhouse Gas Strategy available for Executive Council and standing committee review in May 2011 and to release the revised strategy by next summer.

Mr. Speaker, the issue of climate change and greenhouse gases is a complex issue requiring smart, efficient and affordable solutions to help protect our environment for future generations. It is important we continue to demonstrate to our residents and all Canadians that we are taking this threat seriously. Mahsi.

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Minister’s Statement 87-16(5): Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The possibility of this government signing an agreement-in-principle on land and resource devolution with the federal government is indeed exciting, but for the Premier to sign without the support of our aboriginal government partners would not bode well. Surely he realizes we will require willing and collaborative partners for our

future success and that to proceed without them risks starting a long and contentious road indeed.

The Premier has assured us that this agreement completely addresses aboriginal concerns, that it will not affect existing or future arrangements, negotiations and agreements. If true, the Premier should be able to demonstrate the support of a majority of our aboriginal partners. I await that confirmation and so should he. Time apparently permits good discussion towards this end.

The Premier complains about having talked about devolution for his whole political career. Northerners have high standards, including cooperation and collaboration and a commitment to truly sustainable development. It would serve this government well to adhere to these principles in this process.

Northerners are also patient, but they don’t stand around in the meantime. We have waited for the Mackenzie Gas Project for 35 years, with another decade to go. Let’s look at what has happened in the intervening 35 years: Inuvialuit, Gwich’in, Sahtu and Tlicho land claims have been settled, with significant progress on others. With those settlements have come co-management processes, legislation and environmental review processes that benefit all residents of the Northwest Territories.

A new commitment to integrated resource management, although not yet perfect, has raised the bar considerably in how and when resources are developed and to what degree they benefit our residents. We have new economic engines that have developed resulting from these settlements, including aboriginal corporations that are significant on a national scale. And today we enjoy a territorial GNWT budget of more than $1.3 billion for 41,000 people. The cost of waiting may be portrayed as huge by the Premier , but I suggest that cost has been small and perhaps even a net gain.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Equally important is that we have not finished building our unique northern vision for a land and resource management regime that reflects our values, our aspirations and our potential. I’m excited about an AIP, yes, but only if it brings our aboriginal partners to the table and if it is accompanied by a serious, comprehensive, timely and inclusive public consultation on how we want to cooperatively manage our lands and resources in an economically, socially, and environmentally sustainable way.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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White Ribbon Campaign To Oppose Violence Against Women

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to give some public profile to a nationwide campaign recently re-established here in Yellowknife. Viewers and visitors in the gallery may have noticed that some of us today are wearing a white ribbon on our lapel. The White Ribbon Campaign began in Canada in 1991 when a handful of men decided that they have the responsibility to urge men to speak out about violence against women. They used a white ribbon to symbolize men’s opposition to violence against women.

In its first year, 100,000 men across Canada wore a white ribbon while countless others were drawn into discussions and debate. The White Ribbon Campaign now operates in over 50 countries across the globe.

We all know that our Territory struggles with a significant amount of family violence, one aspect of which is violence against women. It exists in every one of our communities. We hear far too many news stories about women who have been injured or killed due to violence. The NWT is lucky to have a number of shelters for women and families fleeing violence, but the preference would be that we don’t have to have any.

A promotional campaign such as the White Ribbon Campaign can only add to the public awareness and education that is so necessary to fight violence against women in the Northwest Territories. Recently a group of courageous men formed a White Ribbon Campaign here in Yellowknife, focusing on educating young men, raising awareness, opening discussion and attempting to redefine men’s values. The campaign is set to run between November 25th , which is the International

Day for the Eradication of Violence Against Women, and December 6th , Canada’s National Day

of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.

I urge men everywhere to take the White Ribbon Pledge to never commit, condone, or remain silent about violence against women.

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White Ribbon Campaign To Oppose Violence Against Women

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to address the Government of the Northwest Territories’ maturation process and its borrowing limit.

First, I must say that I’m surprised that our Member of Parliament for the Western Arctic is down in

Ottawa trumpeting Bill C-530, which would see our Territory’s debt limit raised to 70 percent of our expenditures, which last year, at just over $1.3 billion, would result in a corresponding debt limit of somewhere in the neighbourhood of $900 million.

The big question, Mr. Speaker, is does our Member of Parliament have the blessing of this Cabinet? How about the Finance Minister or the government? The residents of this Territory would like to know who gave him his marching orders or, Mr. Speaker, is he marching to the beat of his own drummer? Certainly meetings would have taken place where the proposed Bill C-530 would have to have been discussed with this government. To my knowledge, our government has never talked about a percentage of expenditures as a debt limit. Perhaps in Mr. Bevington’s and the NDP’s world, money really does grow on trees, Mr. Speaker.

Let’s be honest with ourselves. We have so much on our plate with the AIP on devolution and resource revenue sharing that we need to stay focused. I firmly believe that this Territory should continue to pursue the AIP with our partners, the aboriginal governments.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is currently analyzing and reviewing the debt limits of all three northern territories. Please, let’s let them do that work. Mr. Speaker, should the AIP advance, we will still be two to three years away while we work out a final agreement. At this present juncture, it would seem to me to be premature and irresponsible to add to our debt limit.

Mr. Speaker, we still do not know what the Deh Cho Bridge will end up costing this government, but, Mr. Speaker, you can mark my words again today, it will be much more than $182 million. Why are we in such a rush to get more credit when reality would indicate this government only has 10 months left to go before residents elect another government? It would only stand to reason the larger the debt, the larger the debt servicing, which, Mr. Speaker, would drastically reduce our ability to fund programs and services for our residents.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Finance at the appropriate time.

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Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Tribute To The Late Colleen Sayine-Burke

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to the late Colleen Sayine-Burke of Fort Resolution. She was born on September 30, 1968, and passed away on October 25, 2010.

Colleen was a loving mother and daughter, who lived in Fort Resolution most of her life with the

exception of the last 10 years during which she lived in Alberta with her husband, Tom Burke.

Mr. Speaker, Colleen was the only daughter of Mae and Robert Sayine, a former MLA in this Legislative Assembly. She was the mother of three: Stephanie, Raymond and Cameron. She was a loving grandmother to her grandchildren: Dakota, Emerence and Sarah. Family always came first for Colleen. Her way was to put others before herself.

Mr. Speaker, Colleen was an active volunteer with many community events and she held many jobs in the community, even working in her father’s water truck service. It was there that she dreamt one day of becoming a truck driver. She worked in the kitchen at BHP and recently achieved her lifelong dream when she became a triple 7 rock truck driver at the diamond mine.

Mr. Speaker, Colleen was raised in a traditional manner. She was kind, honest and respectful, and had a strong work ethic. I was honoured to be asked to do the eulogy in Chipewyan in Fort Resolution at her funeral. People arrived to Fort Resolution from all over the NWT and Alberta to show their respect and love for her. Colleen was only 42 years old but will live on in the hearts of her husband, father, mother, brothers, children, grandchildren, many relatives and friends.

I’d like to thank the family for allowing me to do this. Colleen will be dearly missed but will never be forgotten. Her legacy lives on in the many lives that she’s touched. Thank you.

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Tribute To The Late Colleen Sayine-Burke

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Protection And Preservation Of The Edhezhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recently, Canada has terminated the protection of the ecologically sensitive Edhezhie/Horn Plateau area. Those lands had protection from development since 2002 under an interim agreement between Canada, the Dehcho First Nations and other partners. That agreement is a critical step in the Dehcho First Nations’ negotiations towards resolving the Dehcho land claim.

The Dehcho lands have been blessed by great national resources and the Dehcho First Nations would like to see them preserved as long as the grass grows and the water runs. They work long and hard on the Dehcho Land Use Plan which includes the protection of the Edhezhie area. As a concession to the expansion of the Nahanni National Park Reserve, they were aware that the Edhezhie area would be reduced in size and that also the remaining area would be established as a national wildlife area to give permanent protection from mining and exploration. The Dehcho First

Nations learned last Friday that INAC has decided to terminate the interim protection of the subsurface rights in the Edhezhie and grant only a one-year extension, opening the sensitive cultural and environmental area to mineral exploration and development. The Dehcho First Nations were never consulted on this matter. This issue is so important to the Dehcho, they are willing to risk ceasing further negotiations by launching a court case with Canada. They feel backed into a corner. The Dehcho First Nations have always been solid in their resolve to honour the directives of the elders and their people.

They want to protect their traditional lands and waters for the well-being of future generations.

As an MLA from the Deh Cho, I have to question where is our government on this important issue. How is the government going to defend the rights and interests of my constituents, Mr. Speaker? Why has this government not spoken up and demanded answers from the federal government?

We are talking about an AIP and devolution, which means we are grown up enough to decide for ourselves. Here is a good opportunity for us to show how independent we are. It is time this government stood up, spoke up and defended the people of the Deh Cho. All stakeholders in the NWT are befuddled by Ottawa’s decision, so this is a win-win situation where our government has nothing to lose by backing the Dehcho First Nations on the issue of Edhezhie.

I urge the Premier and our Cabinet demand that Canada alter the Order-in-Council to include...

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Protection And Preservation Of The Edhezhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Menicoche . Your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Protection And Preservation Of The Edhezhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my fiery statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Protection And Preservation Of The Edhezhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, all stakeholders in the NWT are befuddled by Ottawa’s decision, so this is a win-win situation wherein our government has nothing to lose by backing the Dehcho First Nations on the issue of Edhezhie.

Mr. Speaker, I urge the Premier and our Cabinet demand that Canada alter the Order-in-Council to include subsurface protection in the proposed Edhezhie protected area. Mahsi cho.

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Protection And Preservation Of The Edhezhie (Horn Plateau) Area

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My colleagues tell me I have been far too nice to the Cabinet Ministers lately.

---Laughter

I would like to respond to Minister Miltenberger ’s Minister’s statement here today.

Mr. Speaker, are we growing strategies or are we doing something about greenhouse gas emissions? Mr. Speaker, I had a chance to just go over this document here and circle every place where it says, “has taken broad action to implement initiatives,” “these actions,” “the greenhouse gas strategy,” “2007 strategy,” “outlining 39 actions.” Mr. Speaker, it goes on and on. I circled them all. There are only four sentences left in the whole Minister’s statement. By the time you take out every reference to an action or a strategy or implementation or consultation, there is nothing left. There is no meat in this strategy, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to suggest to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources that, yes, the warming of our climate as a result of the release of greenhouse gases has brought implications to our environment and the potential to impact the social, cultural and economic well-being of NWT residents. Mr. Speaker, if the Minister wants to burn up good air time and use good paper to put out Minister’s statements, I suggest he tell us what those actions are. Where’s the meat? Thank you.

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Greenhouse Gas Strategy Renewal

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people of Paulatuk are sick and tired of problems they are having with the Housing Corporation. I am really wondering if the Minister is going to get to the bottom of it. Come to the community with the housing officials and get the job done.

Right now things are simply a mess. People make payments, but those payments get reported on the rent statements that come from Inuvik. People complain about it, they’re treated poorly by Housing staff or get no answers at all. There’s no excuse for this, Mr. Speaker.

Most of the problems started at Education, Culture and Employment when they took over housing. Rent income assessments are slow to get done, people are getting the rent shock of their lives when the rent was set to the maximum. They could only fall behind and in a few months they’re thousands of dollars in arrears. So what happened? People tried to correct the problem, they’d get nowhere. Next they got discouraged and now they ignore the problem. Eventually some of them had to turn to income support, where the system forced people to go to income support who had never had income support in their lives. No wonder they’re upset, Mr. Speaker.

Now the assessments and record collection are controlled by the Housing Corporation. I expected to see things change for the better. I thought the LHOs would be able to straighten out the arrears and I hoped the Housing Corporation would reach the tenants and do the right thing. So far nothing has happened, Mr. Speaker.

I want the Minister to come back to Paulatuk with his staff and get down to work and get the answers from our last visit. They need to be answered, Mr. Speaker. All the questions that the community asked have to get answered.

Mr. Speaker, I’ll be asking the Minister questions at the appropriate time. Thank you.

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Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on the ground on the faith of my people. For the last three weeks my mind and heart have been gone from time to time as to the fate of how we will be shaping our land and our relationships with aboriginal governments. We are beginning to see what it may look like. There’s an interesting saying in the Chinese culture that goes something like this: May you live in interesting times. Certainly we’re in those times with the draft devolution agreement-in-principle. Advice I’m getting from my elders and the leaders in the Sahtu give me strength to carry on with my voice on this draft document before us.

I want to go back to three years ago at the beginning of this Assembly. The Premier , earlier on, said devolution is on the backburner. I recall we pretty much all agreed with that sentiment. However, later on we asked that devolution be put back on the table with all the aboriginal governments as equal owners of this land and as governments. We had important things to do and one thing was how we would work with each other and break away from dependency on the federal government and become unique partners in the Constitution of Canada. We want to dance to our own drum, be it Dene, Metis, Inuvialuit or as Northerners.

Three weeks ago, out of the blue, we found out a draft AIP had been reached between the GNWT and the feds on devolution; only between the two governments and not the aboriginal governments. Would you want all governments to sign this document? Besides, aren’t our communities negotiating their styles of governments? The draft AIP did not come before this House or the people of the Northwest Territories whom we work for. Months earlier we said we need to discuss

devolution openly with the public. This is the basis of democracy.

Mr. Speaker, the feds are trying to download costs. That’s what I firmly believe is happening here in the Northwest Territories. Nothing more, nothing less. We’ve all received copies of letters from the vast majority of aboriginal leaders saying they’re not on side. These leaders represent 29 communities in the Northwest Territories. That is a significant number that are telling us we’re not in the place for the things that are proceeding. This thing is like a runaway freight train.

We need a meaningful consultation process. We need to understand why the feds want this to happen. They’re not doing this because they’re nice guys. We need to know their agenda. We need to know what our agenda is. What is the agenda of the Northwest Territories? Is it money? Is it control? Is it fear? Is the world ending tomorrow?

Last week in the House the Premier said there was no impact from devolution on land claims and self-government agreements.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Yakeleya . Your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member’s statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Then why are the aboriginal leaders not standing side by side with our Premier saying this is a good thing? Why are we trying to force the deal?

We need to do this right and we need to take the time to do it right. Our elders know very well how agreements like this will have an impact on us and our lives and the fallout

interpretations between governments. Just look up the amount of court cases that we’ve had to deal with in our time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad that the Premier has finally seen the light to meet with the aboriginal leaders and for those groups that have been raising issues for some six or seven months regarding a letter he received from the Gwich’in Tribal Council on areas they had concerns about on the devolution process with no response to date.

Under the Northern Accord Agreement it’s clear that aboriginal rights are clearly defined in the agreement. It says none of the agreements that

abrogate, derogate from any of the provisions included in the aboriginal land claims settlement, including the following: land use plans, environmental assessments, land and water responsibilities, wildlife management, surface rights, subsurface rights, benefit agreements, establishment of national parks, territorial parks, conservation areas, and the last thing on the list is resource royalty sharing.

I was totally amazed to hear the Premier make reference that the Gwich’in gave up that right in their land claim and they’re not going to get any more rights. The land claims agreements are not concluded. The land claims agreements have areas that still need to be negotiated, the surface rights provisions, the royalties provisions and our opportunity to negotiate and participate in agreements which are already in existing land claims agreements with respect to the Inuvialuit and agreements over in Nunavut.

Those arrangements were not going to be part of the Dene-Metis claim and the Dene-Metis made it clear that they were going to have a share of royalties throughout the Mackenzie Valley for the Dene-Metis people.

It’s very important to realize that these agreements are pretty clear. The agreement also clearly stipulates that, for greater certainty, oil and gas management requirements established pursuant to the agreements shall be compatible with wildlife, environment and land management requirements established through settlement of land claims agreements.

It also clearly states that in the event of inconsistency between legislative establishment pursuant to the agreement, that the aboriginal land claims agreements and treaties in the Northwest Territories shall basically have paramountcy or precedence over other legislation.

I think the agreement speaks for itself with regard to where this government stands. For the government to assume they can go ahead and negotiate without the aboriginal people at the table is totally unaccommodating in regard to constitutional land claims rights that presently exist.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Krutko , your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

There are constitutional cases under

Section 35 rights in the Constitution where there are land claims agreements that are settled in the Northwest Territories which specifically state that the Government of the Northwest Territories shall negotiate with those organizations. It’s in our land claims agreements. Yet this government is totally missing the boat when they figure they can sign an agreement between themselves and the

federal government and not have aboriginal involvement. That for me is the problem with this agreement. The way it’s being handled is the lack of aboriginal involvement in negotiating a devolution accord for the Northwest Territories and then go to the federal government in regard to that agreement. That was the understanding we had through the Dene-Metis process and the settlement of our land claims agreements.

With that, I will have questions for the Premier on this matter later.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise in the House to discuss in a similar form the House of Commons Bill C-530, which is a bill to discuss the borrowing limit of the Northwest Territories. Slightly different approach than my colleague Mr. Ramsay has. I respect the spirit and intent that our Member of Parliament has on this particular issue. I believe that the internalistic approach that Ottawa has continued to enforce on the Government of the Northwest Territories and its people needs to end.

I do not necessarily fear the approach the Member of Parliament has been taking, however, I do think there are a number of concerns that need to be aired and answered at the same time. The concerns are certainly made up as perhaps my colleague put it: Who had given the Member of Parliament marching orders to act on our behalf?

The direction of the bill states that 70 percent of revenues should be our borrowing limit. That is up to $950 million, as approximated. My issue with that particular case is: Who has he talked to in this particular government? My concern is, of course, he has not talked to me and I’ve looked around and only heard of one person he has specifically spoken to, and I’m not sure if that was any more than water-cooler talk at the time.

This is a serious trek forward to change the borrowing limit of the Government of the Northwest Territories without a Cabinet directive. Has the Member of Parliament spoken with this Cabinet? Has he spoken with the Assembly in any form? I’m certainly not aware of that. Does he have a Cabinet position that reflects the Finance Minister ’s hard work in discussing this issue with his colleagues? Again, I speak with caution and concern. I’m not against the proposal provided by the Member of Parliament, but I do want to exercise concern as to whether he’s doing this alone or if he’s doing it without support.

I agree with many of the comments in yesterday’s discussion in the House of Parliament that emphasized one size does not fit all three territories. Mr. Larry Bagnell, the MP for the Yukon, spoke quite strongly about the Northwest Territories and its abilities. I also want to acknowledge the Bloc, who actually spoke, as well, and said that there was great fiscal management of this Territory and the fact that they can certainly support the direction it’s presently proceeding on.

During question period I will have questions for the Minister of Finance to seek clarity on who gave our MP direction on this endeavour and if it has the support of this government.

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Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to the presence of two very special people in the gallery today. Verna Currimbhoy and Gay Kennedy will soon be retiring from the public service. Today marks the last sitting day of the House that these two valued employees will serve this institution.

Verna began her career in the public service in 1993 and has served as the Members’ secretary/receptionist since 1995.

Gay Kennedy began her public service career in 1980 and has served the departments of Economic Development, Energy and Resources Development, Public Works, Municipal and Community Affairs, and Health and Social Services. In 2008 she accepted a two-year appointment as the Assembly’s director of research and library services.

All in all these two employees take 47 years of experience and service with them when they retire. These two individuals have worked closely with all Members of the House and have earned their trust and their respect. To say they will be missed is an understatement.

I know I speak on behalf of all Members past and present when I offer my heartfelt best wishes to Verna and Gay as they move on to the next exciting stage of their lives. Good luck to both of you and please keep in touch with us.

The honourable Member for Monfwi , Mr. Lafferty .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

I’d like to acknowledge my constituency assistant up in the gallery: Madelaine Pasquayak.

Also Verna for her hard work over the years since I came on board as a rookie.

I’d also like to acknowledge a couple of Pages here, acknowledging all the Pages who have been

doing great work. Most importantly are my Pages: Magdalene Steinwand and Sharon Lafferty, who are here with us doing awesome work.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

I don’t know if I can put it better than you did. You spoke very nicely about Gay Kennedy and Verna Currimbhoy.

I’d like to recognize Gay Kennedy for her hard work here for the last two years. I’ve gotten to know her very well and I respect the work that she’s done in this government, as well as the fact that she’ll be a stalwart force who is missed. She’s done a lot of work over the years and I know that her works and efforts can’t be replaced.

Verna Currimbhoy, as you’ve mentioned as well, is leaving us and, as I understand it, she’ll soon be moving to Saskatoon where her granddaughter is now located and will be back into grandmother duties full time. She will be sadly missed by many of us and certainly by myself and I appreciate all the hard work that she’s provided.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I would like to, as well, recognize Verna Currimbhoy. Our time together -- myself, Premier Roland, the Member for Mackenzie Delta and the Member for Hay River South -- goes back to the last century.

---Laughter

Pre-division. We’ve all had the opportunity to work with Verna during some very interesting times in this Assembly. I’d like to wish her all the best, and as well best wishes to Gay Kennedy.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I’d like to take this opportunity to recognize Verna Currimbhoy. She has been a wonderful assistant to us as Regular Members, especially those from out of town as we come here often without our assistants and she’s there to back us up.

I would also like to thank, particularly for this last couple of years, Gay Kennedy, who stepped into the role of director of research and attended all of our Priorities and Planning meetings of the Regular Members. After many of the dialogues we would just look at her and say, you know, did you get that? Can you do something with that? And she just works her magic. She was a wonderful asset to our committee. Thank you to her.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

It gives me great pleasure to recognize in the gallery my wife, Judy, my daughter Kimberly, and two of my three jewels,

my grandchildren, Rylan and Reese Wainman. Welcome.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I’d like to take this opportunity to recognize a couple of the Pages that have been working for us over the last couple of weeks from the Great Slave riding: Alison Buckland and Desiree Brown. Pages do important work for us and we all appreciate what they do.

I’d also like to take this opportunity to recognize Verna and Gay, as well, and thank them so much for all they’ve done for us over the last two years for Gay and three years for Verna. That’s how long I’ve been here. Thank you both so very much.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

I, too, would like to recognize Ms. Verna Currimbhoy. As one of the MLAs from the region who comes here to work 50 percent of the time, I might add.

The amount of work that she does on my behalf is invaluable. She will be sorely missed and she just makes my office run very smoothly.

As well, special recognition to Gay Kennedy. It’s a pleasure to serve with her on our committees, and all the work that she does on our behalf as well.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

I’d like to recognize the leadership from Deline. I’ll go through the list here: Mr. Peter Menacho, president of the Deline Land Corporation; Morris Neyelle; Paul Modeste, who’s from Russell Bay; elder Alfred Taniton; former Chief Dolphus Baton; band manager, if she’s there, Pauline Roach; Chief Raymond Tutcho; elder John Yukon; member from Deline, Russell Kenny and Danny Gaudet.

Also I’d like to recognize two of the Pages from Tulita’s Chief Albert Wright School: Jordan Lennie and Erica MacCauley.

I’d also like to say thank you to Verna and Gay for all their hard work for the Members who come from out of town to the Leg. here.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I also want to recognize the hard work and dedication of the two employees who are being recognized today. Ms. Currimbhoy, we’ll miss your smiling face around the second floor of the building, that’s for sure. I wish her all the best in her retirement.

And to Gay Kennedy, I think the last two years have been a well-run ship with Ms. Kennedy at the helm of our research department, and I want to wish her

every success and all the best, too, in her retirement.

As well, I want to recognize all the visitors in the gallery: Chief Raymond Tutcho from Deline, and also my friends, Danny Gaudet and Peter Menacho. Welcome.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to stand up today and thank Ms. Gay Kennedy for all the hard work that she’s done with myself and working on our Member’s statements and making sure they’re concise and to the point. Then for Ms. Verna Currimbhoy for the last three years here. As soon as you walk in the door, she’s right there, did you get this, did you get that, just like having my mother.

---Laughter

She’s done a lot of hard work for us, a lot of hard work for Nunakput, and the people of Nunakput want to thank you, Verna. I hope you enjoy your retirement.

I’d also like to recognize Mr. Peter Menacho and Danny Gaudet, good friends. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also would like to recognize a couple of individuals in the House. Verna certainly has been great as the first person I get a cheery good morning from every day. I also want to recognize her as an amazing citizen. I see her working in Bailey House at the swap shop, and she’s a major recycler in town and involved in all kinds of volunteer activities. Gay Kennedy, I think Gay knows that all the Members are really great people here, but I have to admit, at times we must be challenging to work with. I really appreciate the two solid years she’s put in on our behalf. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . If we’ve missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the Chamber. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. It’s always nice to have an audience in here. Item 7, acknowledgements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Acknowledgement 10-16(5): Thomas Manuel Sr. Medal For Bravery

Acknowledgements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I want to congratulate Thomas Manuel Sr. He is 73 years old and a well-respected elder in Fort Good Hope. His bravery was recently celebrated by the Governor General of Canada, David Johnson. It was a great honour and the people of the Sahtu

region are proud of Mr. Manuel. He received a Medal of Bravery for protecting his wife and three grandchildren from an armed intruder three years ago. People across the Northwest Territories remember this incident well. It was widely covered in the media. A young man broke into Mr. Manuel’s house. He had a shotgun and he used it. Mr. Manuel was actually shot in the face, neck and stomach. He was badly hurt and spent weeks in the hospital in Edmonton. It took weeks of surgery to remove 23 pellets of buckshot from Mr. Manuel’s body, including two that damaged his left eye. Mr.

Manuel also received a letter from this Premier on behalf of this government. This elder truly deserves this Medal of Bravery and we honour your name in this House. Thank you.

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Acknowledgement 10-16(5): Thomas Manuel Sr. Medal For Bravery

Acknowledgements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 8, oral questions. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my questions earlier today and ask questions of the Premier as the Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations .

The proceeding on with the AIP with the agreement of our aboriginal government partners is not a good start to the process nor a desired start, I know. The decision by the Premier to proceed without agreement and in the face of clear condemnation from aboriginal governments not only sours these beginnings, it could seriously damage the long-term prospects of ever reaching an amicable partnership.

To complete this work we need a respective, collaborative relationship with willing and engaged aboriginal partners. Does the Premier realize the long-term and future consequences should he take this unilateral, much criticized action? Thank you.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations , Mr. Roland .

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No doubt, as the Premier of the Northwest Territories, as the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations , yes, I know just exactly how important this agreement is to the Northwest Territories, to the GNWT, to aboriginal governments and to the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I was speaking about the consequences to the future, and I’m sure that’s what the Premier was responding to.

The Premier claims the AIP is a good deal for the NWT and for aboriginal government partners who may eventually sign on, and it looks good to me. I have to wonder why, though, if this is such a good deal, our aboriginal partners are not already signed on and moving towards the strength in numbers that the partnership could bring to this. Obviously, we’re not there yet. I realize there are meetings scheduled for this evening and I hope that’s not the only step that the Premier is going to take towards really dealing with this.

Recognizing that we really need the willingness and approval of our aboriginal partners, will the Premier listen to the criticism, pull back from his with-or-without-you stance, and take the time necessary to do the groundwork for a good deal on the agreement so we can go forward with this AIP? Mahsi.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Let’s put the full context on the table. As we’ve been trying to say and as I’ve said in many of my statements today, this process has been nine years in the making, that has involved aboriginal governments and will continue to do so if they want to move with us. We have to yet make a decision if we proceed with this or not. But let’s be clear. If a decision is not to proceed, there are no more discussions to be had, because the AIP has been signed off by the negotiators who have reached their mandate. So it is time for decisions of the North. Thank you.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Premier . Of course, I would say that’s sort of illogical. That’s simply a negotiating position. I’m all for getting this AIP through, but it has to meet these conditions. I won’t say that the Minister is absolutely false there, but clearly his logic is lacking, perhaps, in the conclusion.

Respecting northern values requires that those affected by a new regime, which is every citizen of the NWT, has an opportunity to comment and participate in developing our political future. Assuming resource management power is the single biggest political issue at this stage of our movement towards provincehood, will the Premier commit to a timely, comprehensive and inclusive consultation process involving all NWT governments and citizens in identifying our unique values as the basis for a northern management regime? Mahsi.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Now, I guess -- and I’ll have to tread carefully here -- that the Member’s logic sometimes might be well placed, but I wonder where it goes at times. If we want to play that game, we can. But the simple fact is, in this forum where we are nine years-plus working… The Member for Mackenzie Delta raises the Northern Accord, raises the Dene-Metis comprehensive

process. Years in working together in trying to move authority from Ottawa to the North. This is the time for a still, stable approach as we try to progress on and allow aboriginal governments to have their time to look at the deal as it was penned by the two chief negotiators. We’ve been doing the same and now we get to have a meeting, at least to start the direct discussion about some of the issues and concerns that have been raised publicly between the leadership, and we will continue to be working and incorporating that approach as we look to the future. Thank you.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give up on the logic bit here, but I’ll just say that the many years the Premier talks about has been the time during which, thanks to our aboriginal partners, we have made considerable and great progress towards benefits that accrue to all residents of the Northwest Territories. Our history shows that Northerners have high standards for the way our government should cooperate with all citizens in building a sustainable future. We are patient and we make progress towards our goals one step at a time, regardless of barriers to the obvious and big steps we would like to see happen. We have learned that we must take the time needed…

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Do you have a question, Mr. Bromley ?

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier commit to our demonstrated principles of inclusion and patient perseverance and take the time needed to build the consensus needed on this motion for an issue before us today, the AIP? Mahsi.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, I believe, during the life of the 16th Legislative Assembly we

have shown that patience. We have shown a commitment for inclusion; in fact, establishing the regional leaders’ table which will be meeting later on today to discuss the AIP issue. The fact that as this government took over, announced, to the displeasure of some, that we were prepared to put it on the backburner -- it being the devolution resource revenue sharing process -- put it on the backburner until we as Northerners can talk about a common ground and working together. In the meantime, during those talks, during those meetings, the leadership asked for that issue to be brought back to the table. That has been done. The federal government has engaged.

This process is not new. We have to come to a place where we need to make a decision together. I have followed through on my commitment as I told Members here when we first brought the AIP forward. There is a process. We are going to honour that process and only standing up to put factual information on the table about that process. In the spirit of working together in the Northwest

Territories, we are continuing on with an example of that by this evening’s meeting. Thank you.

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Question 335-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the same thought of the AIP and the draft agreement that has been put forward for consideration by us as Members, by leadership out there in our regions, by aboriginal governments, Mr. Speaker, the AIP, the agreement-in-principle that the Premier and Deputy Premier will travel to Edmonton to discuss with aboriginal leaders and regional leaders tonight. When we leave here, they will go down there. Mr. Speaker, will the signing of that agreement conclude our negotiations or is this just the beginning? Thank you.

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It will not conclude the discussions. In fact, I believe it will be the place for those future discussions and concerns that are being raised since the airing by CBC of the draft agreement-in-principle that it allows, in fact, to bring closure to those concerns that are being raised.

It is a continuation process. It is not the final step in decision-making. In fact, I believe the future Government of the Northwest Territories and the future aboriginal governments within a number of years will have to make a final decision as to that final agreement that would have to come forward. Thank you.

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, by the signing of the agreement-in-principle -- which is exactly what it is called, as the Premier has described -- put us as Northerners in a better position to put some detail and some real parameters to what we will have as a government when devolution and resource revenue... We can talk about it now at this stage. We can talk about it after the agreement-in-principle is signed. What is the advantage of the agreement-in-principle in terms of our relationship with Ottawa and seeing some advancement on this agreement? Thank you.

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, I think the history would show that there are a number of times in the history of the Northwest Territories that we knew and grew up with that the governments, aboriginal and public government, have come to a place -- sometimes it has been just aboriginal governments -- of a decision needing to be made. There has been much reference at times to the Dene-Metis comprehensive process, the Northern

Accord. Those got to the place, I believe, where the AIP is now, but never got the ratification to go the next step. They were referred to many times, but there was no vote to say yes, we will go forward on this basis. There were discussions. There were memorandums of intent, but never got beyond that. That is the place we are today with this AIP. It is the process we would go to the final set of negotiations and then a final decision being made by the governments of the North, aboriginal and public. Thank you.

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, embarking on a regime and on an agreement with Ottawa of this magnitude, of this significance, of this importance to the people of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier if, when he attends this meeting tonight, he will extend to all leaders of governments of the Northwest Territories the sentiment and respect of this House that we are concerned about moving forward together with a unified voice and extend to them the message that we are mature enough that we should trust each other enough to be able to embark on this thing that has been sought for so long. Thank you.

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, absolutely. As I meet with the aboriginal leadership this evening, we will express the fact that we want to continue to work together with an approach that is focused from the North for Northerners. Right now there are many examples, even in a statement earlier today, about decisions being made in Ottawa that have a direct impact on Northerners; the work on regulatory reform by the special negotiator named by a Minister in Ottawa. Those things are ongoing today and will affect land claims as they are written. We are working on a process together to say, let’s go hand in hand, arm in arm and move forward on this agreement-in-principle where, for example,

Chapter 6 was jointly written by aboriginal governments and the Government of the Northwest Territories.

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Question 336-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I noted in the devolution process, there is also, I believe it is

Section 12 of that agreement which clearly identified that this government could not remove itself from federal obligations in which the obligations the federal government has under ensuring that those commitments they make under land claims agreements have to be fulfilled and that they are not going to be basically simply diminished. I think that is the concern of a lot of the

aboriginal groups that do have land claims. We have economic measures. We have surface resource sections. We have protected areas. We have things in agreement that this government has an obligation to implement, but refuses to. I think that is the issue that aboriginal people have. How can we trust the government, yet on the existing land claim agreements where obligations are clearly spelled out in black and white, they are not being fulfilled? I would like to ask the Premier , in light of his comments that the aboriginal groups aren’t going to get anything more than what they have in their land claims agreement, is that the position of this government?

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s interesting the Member would take comments I said in discussing this draft agreement and twist them to match what he would like to present to the public of the Northwest Territories. Let’s be factual here. The fact is I stated to Members, and I will state here for the public, the land claims that have been signed are protected. The language of the AIP will continue to honour that protection. In fact, the AIP has it on the table. The aboriginal governments helped write the one very important

chapter that will create the ongoing government-to-government relationship in the future with aboriginal governments. The existing claims in place -- and the Member is well aware of it because he was at those tables when they were put in place -- the fact is that there is a resource revenue sharing component to those land claims, and they are signed, and they are being honoured, and they are receiving resource throughout that agreement. The AIP would bring additional monies to the tables not only for the GNWT but for the aboriginal governments as well.

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, the whole intention of the land claim agreements, the devolution of process is to enhance the land claim agreements to give the aboriginal response in regards to lands and resource responsibility of the Northwest Territories, but ownership of those resources of the Northwest Territories and to take part of the political and social development in the Northwest Territories.

Without those enhancements, the Dene-Metis would have never signed the agreements that we have today, because we have settled for arrangement that we will take a share of resource revenue sharing throughout the Mackenzie Valley over and above what is in the land claim agreements and negotiate through the devolution process. That wording is not in the existing agreement. It makes reference to the Inuvialuit to be able to negotiate with government for resource arrangements in the Beaufort Sea. It doesn’t say that about the Dene-Metis. Why is that not in the agreement?

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

The fact of the matter is -- and I can repeat almost word for word as the Member just spoke -- that the land claims have written in them resource revenue sharing arrangements with the federal government. The fact that what the Northern Accord may have stated is one thing that they never got ratified. It hit a certain point and there it sits. The land claims now hold the legal status of that. The agreement-in-principle now takes it to the next step where in fact if we were to sign this and go forward and agree, the governments-of-the-day, sign an agreement, a final agreement, there would be further sharing of the resource revenues that now go to Ottawa. Thank you.

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Again, wording -- what’s in the agreement, what’s not in the agreement -- in the 1988 agreement, the devolution process was the enabling agreement signed between the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories to spell out exactly how the aboriginal obligations were going to be transferred. Again, that wording is not in this agreement. So why is that wording, which was used in the Dene-Metis claim and the land claims agreement to date, not entrenched in this agreement that you’re trying to sign off with the federal government?

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

The fact that we used the land claims agreements that are signed today, we used the Tlicho Agreement that is signed and today they’re protected,

Section 35, we have sat down with aboriginal, technical negotiators as well to come up with the language that sees the further protection of those rights going forward in a government-to-government relationship. Today’s environment, we use those terms rather loosely of government-to-government. This agreement-in-principle and a final agreement would in fact make that an absolute reality.

I think, as we listen to the history of the North, to the people today, and to the aboriginal leadership of today, and to the Government of the Northwest Territories, we all want to do the same thing, and that is bring control and the rewards from development to Northerners. That’s what we’re talking about. This is not take land away from anybody else or the controls. This is to respect those, and the places where there is Crown land now administered by the federal government, in a day where a final agreement is in place, would be administered by northern governments. Thank you.

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Your final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I’d like to ask the Premier why in the land claim agreements we specifically state that the Government of the Northwest Territories shall consult the aboriginal groups in regard to oil and gas and devolution in the Northwest Territories and

why aboriginal groups have written letters to the Minister, which have been sitting on his desk for seven months? Is that the way that we deal with aboriginal governments when we make reference that this government shall consult and we’ve put the letters on the side table and, what, wait for the time to run out? Thank you.

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

We could use up the rest of this time period and go over in fine detail all of the meetings held, all the information shared and the actual face-to-face meetings. The letter the Member is talking about, and he’s raised already on a number of occasions, we’re showing Members our responses. The responses will go out. Meetings have been held and will continue to be held. The fact is, consultation is happening, has happened, and will continue to happen. What is the fear that is really there or is it really a monetary issue that needs to be discussed?

All of these things, I believe, the majority of those things can be dealt with as we decide to take the next step. That is go forward in a final set of negotiations and clear up the air and take authority back to where it belongs, and that is home to the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

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Question 337-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Finance Minister and it gets back to my Member’s statement where I was talking about our Member of Parliament, Mr. Dennis Bevington, who this week is trumpeting his borrowing limit Bill C-530 to his counterparts in Ottawa in the House of Commons. It got me to thinking, Mr. Speaker -- and the rest of the residents here in the Northwest Territories are giving this a lot of thought today as well -- does this Cabinet endorse Bill C-530 in its current form? Thank you.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Finance , Mr. Michael Miltenberger .

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I read the news clips with interest this morning and the comments from the Member of Parliament as he looks to the future in the Northwest Territories as a maturing political jurisdiction. On the other hand, I noticed the comment from the Member for Kam Lake that said this government is not ready, we’re not old enough, we’re not mature enough, we’re not wise enough to handle any more money, let’s throw out an anchor

and let’s throw this whole process down, which is an unfortunate comment.

The Member of Parliament is elected by the people of the Northwest Territories in a general election. He doesn’t answer to this Assembly, he answers to the people of the Northwest Territories. He has tools at his disposal to advance causes that he sees as important to the development of the Northwest Territories, some that we share in common with him. The Member of Parliament had the good grace to contact us, to consult with us, to indicate to us what he was doing, ask for our feedback and our thoughts, which we gave him.

But it should be very clear here in this House, he doesn’t answer to us, we don’t answer to him, and he’s doing what he thinks is necessary as a Member of Parliament. We have the common goal in mind to advance the interests of the Northwest Territories to be treated as a mature, evolving political jurisdiction and I hope that all Members would be supportive of that. We’re engaged in a process with the federal government in terms of reviewing our borrowing limits that we’re committed to, and we’ve indicated that to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Yes, that’s right. I remember Parliament does answer to the people of the Northwest Territories. This Minister and this Cabinet answer to us, we represent the people here in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I support moving forward with the AIP; I’ve said that unequivocally. I support that. What I don’t support is us seeking more ways to spend money. Mr. Speaker, I’ve gone on record as saying this before and I’ll say it again for the Minister: I’m not sure exactly what it costs to service a debt of around $500 million in a Territory of 42,000 people, but my estimate, Mr. Speaker, is around $35 million to $40 million. If you double that, almost double that to over $900 million, that’s going to take money away from programs and services that we provide to the people of the Northwest Territories.

I’d like to ask the Finance Minister if his department has done any analysis on what having a debt in the neighbourhood of $900 million would do to the finances of this Territory. Thank you.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

We’ve informed Members of what’s happening with the borrowing limit, that there’s a review underway with federal Finance and the three territories to review the borrowing limits that are currently in place, which are different between the three territories. It’s a common issue for the three territories. Our borrowing limit is currently $575 million. About $450 million of that is self-liquidating, because it’s being paid down through the Power Corp and the Housing Corporation, and the Deh Cho Bridge will be generating its own revenues. We have to recognize that. We’re looking for a review that

recognizes that we have those extenuating circumstances.

We have not spent any time, nor do we intend to, to analyze the content of the Member of Parliament’s bill. We’ve indicated to him that while we appreciate what he is trying to achieve in advancing the cause of the North, we as a government have already started a process with the federal government and the other two territories that we are fully engaged in and intend to see to completion. Thank you.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

If Bill C-530 does pass, within two months that would increase the borrowing limit of the Government of the Northwest Territories to somewhere in the neighbourhood of $900 million and if the Minister of Finance hasn’t done the work, the analysis of what our spending would get us, the $900 million, what that would do to our finances going forward, then again, I think we’re missing something here. I’d like to ask the Minister if he could share with the Members of this House any official correspondence he’s had with the Member of Parliament on Bill C-530.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

I’m not a federal parliamentary expert but my understanding of the Private Member’s Bill process is that this process will take years. It will take until sometime in the new year to even get back before the House for further discussion before there’s even any decision made.

I can indicate to this House that there was correspondence from the Premier to the Member of Parliament on October 20th confirming what I’ve

stated to this House, that we thank them for contacting us, but indicating that we have a process that we are engaged in with the federal government and the other territories to review our borrowing limits and that we will fully engage in that process to its conclusion.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that. I guess for me the bottom line is whether or not -- and I said this earlier -- we’ve never discussed in any meeting I’ve been in during the seven years that I’ve been here, a percentage on our expenditures as a borrowing limit. It is the first I’ve heard of it and I’d like to again ask the Minister if this Cabinet endorses 70 percent of our expenditures as a borrowing limit for this government.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Let me state once again for the Member and the general public, that we have indicated to the Member of Parliament for the Western Arctic that it’s his right to pursue a Private Member’s Bill. He has our interests in mind and in his opinion he’s using the processes he has. But we have made it clear that we have embarked upon a process with the federal Finance

department and the other two territories to review our borrowing limit. That’s the process we’re engaged in. That’s the process we are committed to. That’s what we are paying attention to. That’s where we see the issues with our concern of the borrowing limit being addressed and it’s the one we’re fully engaged in.

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Question 338-16(5): Proposed Increase To Territorial Borrowing Limit

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I was talking about the housing problems and issues that we have in Paulatuk. I would like to ask the Minister of Housing what is holding up the Housing Corporation’s work to solve the problem of unfair arrears in the community of Paulatuk.

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We had a good trip into Paulatuk and we had a good public meeting. There were a lot of concerns raised by the residents of Paulatuk. We received a great number of correspondences as to some of the problems that we’re facing. I did commit to them that we would have a look at the question of arrears. There was some question there as to the amount of arrears and the time it was taking to get assessed. I did commit to them that we would work with them.

As it stands right now, the LHOs are starting to do the assessments again. For the assessments that were done prior to Housing Corporation getting the responsibility for assessments back from ECE, tenants have the ability to go into their LHO, provide the proper documentation, and the LHO will then work with ECE and if there’s a need to, the reassessments will be done. The onus is again on the tenants to bring in the verification of income and we’re hoping to do that across the Territories. We have heard the question that there has been a lot of arrears accumulated during that time.

This is a process that is going to take awhile. We are working with it and will continue to work with it with the residents in Paulatuk.

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

What has the Minister done about the arrears problem in Paulatuk since our last visit?

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

I just explained to the Member the process that we are undertaking right now in helping deal with the arrears. There was a question of extremely high arrears in Paulatuk and we heard some of the stories from some of the residents there. We are undertaking the process again. The LHOs are doing the assessments

currently, since the transfer back as of June 1st , for

the assessments prior. Tenants have the opportunity to bring in their verification of income into Housing and they will then work with ECE to try to do the reassessments if it’s needed.

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

It is a big mess that ECE left behind in the communities and all across the Territories. Has the Minister told the LHOs how to resolve the problem? Will the Minister try to come back into the community? We had about 65 people in attendance at the meeting for the questions that we did have. Is the Minister, with the correspondence he does have, how is the department making out with regard to answering the community and myself?

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

We just recently, or this fall, I believe, we were up in Paulatuk and I made a commitment to the people of Paulatuk that were at the meeting. It was a well-attended meeting. I did make a commitment to deal with a lot of the issues that they were bringing forward. There were a lot of individual issues that were brought forward by way of letter to myself and we are responding to those individually. If time permits, sometime this spring, having been given an opportunity to try to work out some of the issues that they raised in Paulatuk, as time permits I’d be glad to go back in.

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope it’s before April. I’d like him to come before Christmas or let one of his staff come to the community with me to meet with the community. When you’re getting the mayor of the community calling me regarding the issues and the way things are being handled over there, it’s a great concern to myself that these issues are not being done, because it’s a satellite-run community out of Inuvik. So nothing is being passed in regard to the paper. Why did NWT Housing Corporation not go back to the program before ECE?

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

There were some issues that came out of the whole transfer that we heard of. We are working to try to address some of the concerns that were raised. Paulatuk is just another good example. We have many communities across the Northwest Territories I still have to go into and visit and continue to get the message out there that this is not something that can be done overnight. There has been a challenge as far as the assessments go. We’ve heard that. I can tell you that Paulatuk is not a satellite-run community anymore. We have a management team in place in Paulatuk that is dealing with the situation there.

Unfortunately, there was a time when a lot of the operations of the community were run out of the Inuvik office because we were unable to get staff in there. The assessments were being faxed to the Inuvik office and the assessments weren’t being

done in a timely manner. We recognize all that. Now we’re taking steps to try to deal with it. If the opportunity arises and I make it into Paulatuk again, hopefully by then all outstanding issues would have been dealt with and people will understand exactly where they are in the community as far as arrears and assessments and everything else go.

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Question 339-16(5): Paulatuk Public Housing Arrears

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 340-16(5): Community Harvesters Assistance Program

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr