Debates of July 29th, 1999

This is page numbers 693 - 720 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was aboriginal .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Dogrib Agreement-in-principle

Financing The Implementation Of Self-government - GNWT Principles

Minister's Forum On Health And Social Services

Aboriginal Sport Circle Annual General Meeting

Response To Minister's Forum On Education

Planned Construction Of Correctional Facility

Government Inaction On Governance Issues

Resource Agreements With NWT First Nations

Comments On Electoral Boundaries Debate

First Aboriginal Youth Conference

Transfer Of Federal Government Positions To The North

Award Of Bravery To Darryl Gruben

Return To Oral Question 218-13(7): Seniors' Municipal Tax Obligations

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Moving Federal Positions North

Community Market Garden Development Program

Dogrib Agreement-in-principle

Petition 6-13(7): Keep The Flag The Way It Is

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Tabled Document 58-13(7): Financing The Implementation Of Self-government - GNWT Principles

Tabled Document 59-13(7): NWT Power Corporation 1998-99 Annual Report

Tabled Document 60-13(7): Minister's Response To The Forum On Education

Tabled Document 61-13(7): Press Release From Western NWT Aboriginal Summit On Bill 15

Tabled Document 62-13(7): Financial Administration Manual Directive 302

Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15

To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15

To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15

To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15

To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19

To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Erasmus , Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Morin , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Rabesca , Honourable Floyd Roland , Honourable Vince Steen .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 693

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus . Good afternoon. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 81-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 693

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that negotiations have reached an important milestone with the Dogrib First Nation and Canada on the first combined land claim and self-government agreement-in-principle in the Northwest Territories.

This agreement-in-principle is historic. It represents a new

chapter in the development of new governance models in the North. It also is an example of this government's support and recognition of the aboriginal inherent right to self-government.

We are committed to investing the time and resources necessary to develop new partnership arrangements with aboriginal governments. We have emphasized many times that peoples must develop respectful relationships with one another to make the North a better place to live in and to raise our children.

We know the political landscape of the North is changing dramatically, as we work to redefine our relationships. Just four short months ago, the people of Nunavut achieved their goal of a new territory. Now we continue the process of redesigning our system of governance in the Northwest Territories. This must be done with aboriginal and public governments.

Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle will be initialled by the three chief negotiators at the Dogrib Annual General Assembly in Gameti on August 9, 1999. By initialling this document, the negotiators are recommending the document to their respective governments for review. Just as importantly in our view, this will allow the document to be released for the information and consideration of all interested parties.

Once approved and signed by all three parties, the agreement-in-principle will set the framework for negotiating a final agreement.

Mr. Speaker, while this is an important and historic event in this process, it is important to note that several outstanding issues need to be resolved before a final agreement can be concluded. Key amongst these are issues related to the financing of self-government. We have not yet reached a resolution at the Dogrib table on self-government financing, fiscal arrangements or taxation issues. The Minister of Finance will be following up with a more detailed statement on these issues later today.

Mr. Speaker, another key issue for the Government of the Northwest Territories is the resolution of overlap issues between the Dogrib First Nation and adjacent regions.

This government continues to insist that substantial progress must be made to resolve these outstanding overlap issues before the agreement-in-principle can be signed. Therefore, I urge the Dogrib First Nation to immediately enter into discussions with aboriginal governments with overlap interests in the North Slave region to develop a process that will lead to a fair and mutually satisfactory resolution of these issues.

Mr. Speaker, getting to this important milestone at the Dogrib table has been a challenge. However, it shows that aboriginal rights negotiations in the Northwest Territories are moving forward in a positive, constructive and timely manner.

I would like to recognize the hard work and dedication shown by the three chief negotiators and their teams during this process and thank them for their valuable contributions. This government will take the opportunity after initialling to fully review the document and to work on resolving some of the outstanding issues that remain, including those that I have outlined here today.

Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle will become a public document after it is initialled on August 9. I encourage the Members of this House and all citizens of the Northwest Territories with an interest in this matter to take some time to review it. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 81-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 693

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister's statement. Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 82-13(7): Financing The Implementation Of Self-government - GNWT Principles

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 693

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on the Premier 's statement regarding the draft Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle by providing more detail on some of the financial issues. The Dogrib AIP represents a very significant amount of work on the part of the three parties. It is a crucial and historic

step for the Dogrib First Nation in realizing their aspirations.

The AIP reflects the successful conclusion of negotiations on most issues. However, negotiations on self-government financing, fiscal arrangements and taxation issues have not yet been finalized. The three parties have agreed to complete these negotiations during the final agreement phase.

Mr. Speaker, in order to clarify the GNWT's position and to provide an opportunity for public discussion, I will table today a document called Financing the Implementation of Self-Government - GNWT Principles. This document explains in some detail the proposed approach of the GNWT when negotiating fiscal arrangements with the Dogrib First Nation and Canada. These principles represent the position of this government and reflect our continued commitment to negotiate self-government agreements that are practical, affordable and which will ensure that all governments have the financial capacity to exercise their powers and meet their residents' needs.

The first and most important issue is to determine the costs to implement self-government and who will pay those costs.

There will be additional one-time and ongoing costs to establish self-government institutions and service delivery structures. The cost to implement self-government is a fiduciary responsibility of the federal government. Further, the GNWT maintains that, given our limited fiscal resources, we do not have the ability to pay for incremental costs, without compromising our ability to continue to provide the same level of programs and services to territorial residents. For both these reasons, the GNWT's position is that Canada is responsible for funding incremental costs.

The second issue is whether money would flow to the Dogrib First Nation government through the GNWT or directly from Canada. The position of the GNWT is that it will act as the funding agent where programs and services are delivered by governments or institutions that represent and serve all residents.

In areas where a First Nations government exercises its exclusive jurisdiction over its citizens or its land, the GNWT's position is that funding should flow directly from Canada. The GNWT would, in both cases, contribute its share of current expenditures on relevant programs and services.

Third, Mr. Speaker, with respect to taxation, the parties will strive to reach agreement on the extent of the taxation powers of the Dogrib First Nation government. A taxation agreement will be negotiated prior to concluding the final agreement.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to applaud the commitment and excellent efforts of the negotiating teams and acknowledge the extensive amount of work to date.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 82-13(7): Financing The Implementation Of Self-government - GNWT Principles

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 694

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Ministers' statements. Mr. Roland .

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Minister's Statement 83-13(7): Minister's Forum On Health And Social Services

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 694

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the Members of the Legislative Assembly that the Minister's Forum on Health and Social Services has begun its work. The forum will focus on ways to sustain and improve the health and social services system in the NWT.

MLAs and other stakeholders in the health and social services system nominated forum members. The nine forum members are:

- Ms. Glenna Hansen, co-hair, Inuvik;

- Mr. Duncan MacNeill, co-chair, Hay River;

- Ms. Rita Cli, Fort Simpson;

- Mr. Don Blaquiere, Fort Smith;

- Dr. Ross Wheeler, Yellowknife, who represents the NWT Medical Association;

- Ms. Dee McCallum, Yellowknife, who represents the NWT Registered Nurses Association;

- Ms. Gina Dolphus, Deline;

- Ms. Hazel Nerysoo, Fort McPherson; and

- Mr. Blair Dunbar, Yellowknife, who represents the NWT Social Workers Association.

All forum members have been involved in the delivery of health and social services in the North. In selecting the members, I tried to achieve a balanced panel. It was difficult to choose from among the many well qualified Northerners nominated to the forum.

The forum members met in Yellowknife July 13-16 for a thorough orientation to the health and social services system and to develop their consultation

schedule and work plan. Consultations will take place with the public, professional associations, aboriginal organizations, communities, health and social services boards and other stakeholders.

The purpose of the forum is to recommend ways to improve and sustain the health and social services system. I have asked them to focus on four areas including:

-Leadership and governance of the system;

-Human resources;

-Financial sustainability; and

-Program and service delivery.

Community meetings will be held from August 31 to September 9. Information on meeting times and locations will be advertised in early August.

Northerners who cannot attend a community meeting will be able to make written submissions. Advertisements calling for written submissions will soon appear in community newspapers. A toll-free phone number will also be set up to allow people to call in and give their comments.

Forum members will participate in a territorial health and wellness conference planned for October. At this time they will present an interim report on the results of their community meetings. The forum will then prepare a final report and submit their recommendations for sustaining and improving the health and social services system. I expect to receive their final report in early December.

As Members of this House know, our health and social services system is facing significant challenges. We need to act now to ensure that we have a sustainable and efficient system. I am confident that the forum will provide appropriate and affordable recommendations to ensure that our system continues to provide quality care and remains sustainable in the long term. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 83-13(7): Minister's Forum On Health And Social Services

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 695

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Steen .

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Minister's Statement 84-13(7): Aboriginal Sport Circle Annual General Meeting

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 695

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that on May 30th and June 1st the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic held its first annual general meeting in Dettah, Northwest Territories. Aboriginal recreation leaders and volunteers from the Inuvik, Sahtu, Deh Cho, North Slave and the South Slave regions attended this gathering. The purpose of this meeting was to select a board of directors and to set the course for this newly formed organization for the new year.

Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic has been established to work with other partners to promote and enhance community wellness and cultural awareness through sport and recreation. The Aboriginal Sport Circle is working in partnership with Sport North and Municipal and Community Affairs to encourage aboriginal youth in the Northwest Territories to participate in the sport, recreation and cultural activities to live healthy, productive and spiritual lifestyles.

Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Sport Circle desires to make a difference by working together with communities, Sport North, territorial sport organizations and our department to increase participation of aboriginal youth in sport at the community, territorial and national levels. The Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic was created to enhance the current sport and recreation system's ability to respond to the needs for accessible, equitable, and affordable sport, recreation and cultural opportunities in smaller communities. These activities continue to play an essential role in enhancing individual lifestyles and in addressing issues such as alcohol, substance abuse and unemployment.

The Aboriginal Sport Circle will also serve as a facilitation body whereby the communities of the Western Arctic work together in partnership to increase participation of aboriginal youth in a variety of sports at all levels. The Aboriginal Sport Circle will work with Sport North, territorial sport organizations and the department to develop athletes and coaches for regional, territorial and national level competitions.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs supports the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic working in partnership with Sport North and its member territorial sport organizations. This will ensure that all residents of the NWT have access to sport and recreation opportunities while avoiding unnecessary duplication of administration or services. This will also allow for the development of a better sport and recreation system while working within the existing resources available.

It will also allow the organization to provide some focus on addressing unique issues facing sport development in the smaller predominantly aboriginal NWT communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 84-13(7): Aboriginal Sport Circle Annual General Meeting

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 695

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 85-13(7): Response To Minister's Forum On Education

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 695

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment produced its current strategic plan in 1994. This plan has provided the vision and direction for the department's work over the past six years. In December, 1998, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment announced a review of the plan. The purpose of this review was to update the strategic plan based on the changes that have occurred in the Northwest Territories and our vision as a new territory.

As part of that process, the Minister's Forum on Education was appointed to hear the views of NWT residents on what is working and what could be improved in the education system. The forum undertook a very broad consultation process across the NWT, visiting eleven communities and receiving a number of written submissions.

Mr. Speaker, in April this year, I tabled the report of the Minister's Forum on Education in the Assembly. The report outlined both the strengths of the current system and the areas where people would like to see improvement. While the forum results are intended to be part of the longer term strategic plan update, there were a number of issues raised in the report where more immediate and short-term action was possible. We decided it was important to provide a swift response to the forum recommendations, highlighting what could be done right away. During a meeting in May, DEC and DEA chairs also expressed their support for taking quick action, where possible, on the forum recommendations.

Later today, I will be tabling our response to the nine areas of concern identified by the forum. The response speaks mainly to the actions that the department will undertake. However, these actions will also be supported by the Divisional Education Councils and District Education Authorities through other activity at the regional and school levels.

Without question, Mr. Speaker, some of the forum recommendations will need additional resources if they are to be fully implemented. As we look at future years' budgets, these needs will be reflected in our decisions as a department. However, in the meantime, staff have identified a number of actions which will have a positive impact on the areas of concern. The response speaks to those actions. The feedback from the Minister's forum and this response will be included in the longer term strategic plan update, which will be completed by September. The actions I am putting forward today are consistent with the overall direction and vision for the department over the next five to ten years.

Mr. Speaker, we believe that this response demonstrates our commitment to seriously addressing the forum's recommendations. The actions are positive and realistic within our current resources and will contribute to the continuing process of our education system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-Applause

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Minister's Statement 85-13(7): Response To Minister's Forum On Education

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 696

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Member's Statement 193-13(7): Planned Construction Of Correctional Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 696

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to as concisely as possible recount the events and ironic contradictions which have led to the debate which has taken place in the House this week surrounding the government's decision to construct a collocated adult and male young offenders facility in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, I am obviously most familiar and most concerned with the young offenders facility component of this project. For a number of years Hay River was the home of a triple designated young offenders facility accommodating open custody, secure custody, and remand-detained youth.

The structure was originally built as a receiving home for children. After being taken over as a young offenders facility, structural deficiencies under the fire and building codes were addressed to satisfy requirements on an ongoing basis, with the understanding that complete replacement would be required at some point in the future. The replacement of the facility was indicated in the five year capital plan.

Then along came the concept of Public/Private Partnerships, or P3. MLAs were canvassed to find out if there were projects in their ridings which might be adapted to P3 projects, thus alleviating pressure on the government's dwindling capital budget and involving private sector investment and generating much needed economic activity to diminish the negative impact that this diminished activity was having on our construction sector.

After a brief scan of potential interest in my community for converting this projected capital replacement project to a Public/Private Partnership, I wrote to the Minister of Justice identifying this project. A list of 27 other projects was provided to Government Operations after departments provided input as to projected cost and level of priority of these facilities to their operations. On the list of 27 projects it clearly stated, replacement of young offenders facility Hay River, $10 million, high priority.

After narrowing the list of projects in consultation with Government Operations, the Hay River young offenders facility was still on the short list of 12 projects.

It was not until the then Finance Minister , John Todd, issued a press release listing the P3 projects that Hay River's name was missing beside replacement of young offenders facility. When I questioned the Finance Minister in the House, he was evasive, but in private he assured me that he was pushing hard for Hay River but was meeting with resistance. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

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Member's Statement 193-13(7): Planned Construction Of Correctional Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 696

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mrs. Groenewegen , you have unanimous consent.

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Member's Statement 193-13(7): Planned Construction Of Correctional Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 696

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. Moving this project from a GNWT capital project to a P3 eliminated the requirement for usual consultation and review by the Standing Committee on Social Programs. Then even P3 protocol was breached when I came to learn that the P3 was in fact being split and going to Inuvik and to Yellowknife for a new young offenders facility. I found this out through a press release issued by then Minister Goo Arlooktoo when I walked by the Member's fax machine and happened to see a press release laying on it.

I was assured by the Deputy Minster of Justice that the decision was a result of a report called the McCready report, which provided several options for meeting the future needs for young offenders facilities and programming. But a nagging doubt persisted, based on the Mr. Todd's opinion that this decision had been based on politics. If the decision had truly been made in the best interests of our youth, how could I reasonably argue with it? But was it political?

For this reason, shortly after the departure of the Nunavut Cabinet Ministers, I wrote to Mr. Kakfwi , the new Minister of Justice , asking him to revisit this decision so that I could be assured the decision was made for sound reasons and not as a result of any political attentions which might have existed at the time. I received a response from Mr. Kakfwi , and since Mr.

Kakfwi was and is a Minister I have a great deal of respect for and confidence in, I again laid aside the issue of the young offenders facility, somewhat more confident that I had enough information to satisfy my own concerns and any concerns that might still linger for my constituents. Then came this week and the revelation that with no consultation with the Standing Committee on Social Programs, the location, method of delivery, and scope of this facility has again changed. To me, this reinforces the need to re-examine the whole issue and assessment of all factors affecting this project.

The best decision must be evaluated on the basis of many factors, some of which include cost, available services in the community, and the fair distribution of government infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, sometimes I wonder if this Cabinet thinks that capital budget means money to be spent in the capital, Yellowknife.

--Applause

Mr.

Speaker, I appeal to the Minister of Justice , in the name of justice and fairness and in view of the many ironies, contradictions, and deviations from normal process, not to change his mind as to where this facility should be located but to go back to the drawing board and put in place proper consultation with the appropriate committees, and put in place a process whereby communities such as the one that I represent could have a fair and level opportunity to prepare a proposal and make presentation to him and his department for the proper, careful, and comprehensive consideration of this very important decision, because I know that we could make compelling arguments just given the opportunity.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 193-13(7): Planned Construction Of Correctional Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 697

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Member's Statement 194-13(7): Government Inaction On Governance Issues

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 697

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in this same session, last winter, once Justice de Weerdt's decision had become public knowledge and after a motion passed in this Legislative Assembly urging the government to appeal that decision, the Premier , speaking on behalf of the government stood in this Legislative Assembly and said he would not appeal because of the advice that he received from this government.

At that time, the government said they were looking for political solutions. I said at that time that this government abandoned the aboriginal governments of the western Arctic and I feel more strongly about that today, Mr. Speaker, that this government abandoned the aboriginal governments of the western Arctic.

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, July 28, 1999, July 28, 1999, is a dark day in the history of the 13th Legislative Assembly because now what this government has chosen to do is abandon the rest of the people of the Northwest Territories. Why do they choose to do that? Because they choose not to take action. They choose to pass the buck to the 14th Legislative Assembly, the next Legislative Assembly. There was plenty of time left in our mandate, Mr. Speaker, to carry out a constitutional commission for this Assembly to develop it and carry it out. What does the government choose to do?

The government chooses to do nothing. Why are they here? To do nothing, to do nothing for the people of the western Arctic. That was the last hope that you could deal with it on the same level as Bill 15 is being dealt with. Bill 15 will be considered in this House, that should be considered in this House as well. It is an equal level playing field.

Mr. Speaker, walking into this Assembly today I had the opportunity, right out these doors, to talk to a member of the Aboriginal Summit, the Premier was there as well. What is the clear message from the Aboriginal Summit? They want this government to adopt the recommendations that our committee put forward. They want this government to do something. They will not live on borrowed time or broken promises or hollow promises.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 194-13(7): Government Inaction On Governance Issues

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 697

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Tu Nedhe is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Morin , you have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

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Member's Statement 194-13(7): Government Inaction On Governance Issues

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 697

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Aboriginal Summit have made it very clear to this government through the Premier that they want an electoral boundaries and reform constitutional committee formed so something can happen. We cannot go round any longer promising people that you are going to do something in the next Assembly. You have the ability to do it now. Mr. Speaker, I quote from Hansard on March 24, 1999, the government, the Premier , on behalf of the government.

First it gives us an opportunity to find a solution to this issue. It is not the intention of the government to try to ram this legislation through even if we could. We know there is no consensus at this time to resolve the major constitutional issues. Taking the time to build this consensus is important. We do not have consensus with our aboriginal leaders or with our communities leaders. In our view, building of the understanding of the issue and reaching a political resolution is critical.

Reaching a political resolution is critical. We have given you that opportunity. You still have today and tomorrow to reconsider your point of view, to reconsider the stand that this government took yesterday in this Legislative Assembly, passing the buck to the 14th Legislative Assembly. I ask you on behalf of all the people in the western Arctic, try to keep the western Arctic together, be a leader, be leaders, that is what you are there for, all six of you. Stand up and form a reform commission that will look at the constitution for the western Arctic and give everybody a fair government, not just the capital city of Yellowknife. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 194-13(7): Government Inaction On Governance Issues

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 697

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Member's Statement 195-13(7): Resource Agreements With NWT First Nations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 697

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have heard a lot of statements in this House about resource agreements being made between the Alberta government, this government and TransCanada Pipelines. We have heard agreements made with the mining companies in regard to accessing diamonds and also accessing lands within the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, I think there is one group that this government does not seem to be making any progress on in making agreements with and that is the First Nations people of this territory.

Until the transfer of the Northern Accord Agreement if finalized, no resource development should take place in the Northwest Territories. Until this government sits down with the Aboriginal First Nation governments and negotiates a Northern Accord Agreement and spells out exactly how those agreements are going to impact on development and how the aboriginal people will benefit from it, we should not be signing any agreements with any jurisdictions in Canada giving them the authority to our resources.

The First Nation governments do not have the ability to generate revenues, or have a say on how they are going to benefit these programs. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 195-13(7): Resource Agreements With NWT First Nations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 698

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko , you have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

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Member's Statement 195-13(7): Resource Agreements With NWT First Nations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 698

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. In regard to how these agreements are going to be finalized we have to establish a table to sit down and negotiate with Aboriginal First Nations. The Inuvialuit and the Gwich'in are the regions I represent. They are in the process of negotiating a self-government agreement.

They want to know exactly how are they going to have access to the resources in their jurisdictions, in the Beaufort Delta, so that we know that we will be able to arrive at some financial arrangement between the First Nation People, the developers and also know that we will be able to use some of those resources for our self-government programs and services.

I think it is essential that this government, on one hand they can say they are showing that aboriginal rights are being negotiated, and they are also saying that the Government of the Northwest Territories is moving forward on the position of these negotiations and also concluding these agreements.

The Inuvialuit signed their agreement in 1984 to establish the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, 1984, that is 25 years ago, excuse me, that is 15 years ago. In regard to the Gwich'in they signed their agreement off in April 22, 1992. That is seven years ago. Now you have the Dogrib coming forth with an agreement-in-principle. These land claim agreements are constitutionally protected agreements. They are there to ensure that the people know that these rights are there for the First Nation people.

This government refuses to conclude commitments that they have made in these land claim agreements and the government is going off negotiating agreements with other jurisdictions in Canada without concluding its obligations to the Aboriginal First Nation people of this land.

I find it pretty sad. On the one hand we are saying we are working in partnership with the aboriginal people, but not living up to the commitments that we make to these First Nations People. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 195-13(7): Resource Agreements With NWT First Nations

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 698

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus .

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Member's Statement 196-13(7): Comments On Electoral Boundaries Debate

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 698

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we discussed Bill 15 and our recommendations in this House. Today I had the opportunity to speak to a person who watched those deliberations on television. That person lives in Yellowknife and has done so for a long time. What he had indicated to me is, what do you think it will take to get across to Cabinet the fears of the people, do you have to hit them over the head with a hammer?

Mr. Speaker, I do not know, but it is obvious that this Cabinet did not read our report. It is obvious that the Ministers present at the community hearings did not listen to their constituents' presentations. We must have sat there like the proverbial wooden Indian, because they did not hear a word. They did not hear the constituents saying we are afraid of the next Assembly, we are afraid of the next Assembly. Put these things in place to protect us. What is this government doing to allay those fears. What are they doing to the words of the Premier on March 24th? Nothing.

They are telling their constituents, trust the next Assembly. We will not put one concrete thing in place, but do not worry, we will make recommendations to the next Assembly. We know they will listen.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what it will take to lead our colleagues out of the wilderness, but I implore this Cabinet, do not close your minds. Those of you who still live in your constituencies, consult with your constituents. Consult with the Aboriginal Summit about our recommendations, and maybe, just maybe in September, we will greet you as come stumbling out of the wilderness. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 196-13(7): Comments On Electoral Boundaries Debate

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 698

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Member's statement. Mr. Rabesca .

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Member's Statement 197-13(7): First Aboriginal Youth Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 698

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this past Sunday, I was privileged to attend the opening ceremony of the first Aboriginal International Youth Conference which was being held in Rae-Edzo. Myself, the mayor, and the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories presented comments to the delegation of approximately 60 youth from across Canada and the Philippines. The focus of the conference was to bring youth together in a forum to discuss the common concerns that youth face today. I see this as an excellent forum that I am sure this is providing some direction to these participants to return to their home communities and hopefully start implementing them.

The youth of today face many different challenges than we did when we were growing up. It is very difficult for the youth to retain their language and culture, as a result they are lost between their culture and that of the non-aboriginal population. They also find it frustrating because few will listen to them. In all communities, we hear the youth are bored, there is nothing for them to do. How can the youth balance their heritage and tradition with that of this modern world?

Over the week-long conference, many discussions and workshops took place with a list of concerns and recommendations that would be presented to the community leaders which I hope will include this government. It is important that we hear what their concerns are, how we can help them develop and prosper. The youth need your support for they are our future leaders. Today, youth need to be strong like two people, retain their culture and language but also able to adapt to this modern lifestyle. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 197-13(7): First Aboriginal Youth Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 699

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Member's statement. Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 198-13(7): Transfer Of Federal Government Positions To The North

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 699

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My comments today are on the transfer of federal positions to the North which we are still awaiting word on when a decision will be made, how many, if any, positions from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development may be moved North. For the last three years, the government has been pursuing this, and I have been asking questions and making statements on this quest arguing that the North will be better served if those people were to live here in the North.

Several studies have been completed to address this matter, Mr. Speaker, and I was on the understanding that Indian Affairs Minister Jane Stewart was to make an announcement on this matter several weeks ago. All sorts of studies can be done, but the reality is that DIAND staffers cannot effectively carry out their duties half a continent away.

When we see how they fooled around with the diamond issue, the value-added industry, if it had not have been for this government, these Members, the communities, and members of the public here in the Northwest Territories, with the support from our communities, Canada would have lost a whole industry. Mr. Speaker, it is time that DIAND got on with the job of addressing the issue of transferring those positions North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 198-13(7): Transfer Of Federal Government Positions To The North

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 699

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Member's statements. Mr. Steen .

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Member's Statement 199-13(7): Award Of Bravery To Darryl Gruben

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 699

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just over a year ago, I reported to this House on a fatal accident in the community of Tuktoyaktuk. On May 29, 1998, 14-year-old Darryl James Gruben and two-year-old brother Patrick were returning from a hunting trip with their father. Their snowmobile went through the ice in Tuktoyaktuk Harbour. Darryl Gruben managed to hold his little brother's head above water until help arrived. Tragically, Darryl did not survive the freezing water.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to report today that Darryl Gruben has been awarded one of this country's highest honours for bravery. I have been informed by Rideau Hall that the Governor General, His Excellency, the Right Honourable Romeo LeBlanc, has awarded Darryl the Medal of Bravery. The Medal of Bravery is given only for acts of bravery in hazardous circumstances. Very few people are ever considered for this honour, and so it is a testament to Darryl Gruben's courage and the strength of his character that he has been awarded this medal. A ceremony to present Darryl's family with this award will be announced soon.

I hope that today other Members of this House will join me in remembering this brave young man. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 199-13(7): Award Of Bravery To Darryl Gruben

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 699

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Member's statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Steen .

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Return To Oral Question 218-13(7): Seniors' Municipal Tax Obligations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 699

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Erasmus on July 26, 1999, in regard to seniors' municipal tax obligations.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is continuing to work on the issues related to senior citizens' and disabled persons' property tax relief raised in this House. Next week, I will forward to the Member from Yellowknife North a letter previously sent to the NWT Association of Municipalities describing the department's proposal on co-ownership.

The department has consulted with the NWT Association of Municipalities and the tax-based communities on changes to the program. Tax-based municipalities have the authority to make changes to their tax programs to implement a means test through their municipal by-law making power. The broad application of a means test is difficult, as there is not always a clear link between property value and household income. The department will continue to look for a suitable means test. The municipalities are willing to support changes to the program, but are not readily willing to absorb any additional costs.

The department will continue to gather information and carefully consider other models for the program.

Members were also concerned about simplifying the application process. I am committed to continue to work with the Minister of Finance to see what can be streamlined. The department is also working with the Social Envelope Committee to examine the implications of harmonizing seniors' programs and the effect it would have on the property tax rebate for seniors. Some of the issues with this approach are; establishing a common age for seniors among all departments, developing a more simplified and coordinated process for accessing these programs and, whether to operate the programs as a rebate or as a subsidy.

Mr. Speaker, I have asked the department to report back to me by the end of September with their recommendations based on costing analysis, and estimates of benefits. I expect to include recommendations for change in the upcoming business plan for the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question 218-13(7): Seniors' Municipal Tax Obligations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Roland .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Mrs. Glenna Hansen, co-chair of the forum, as well as Mr. Duncan MacNeil, co-chair of the health forum.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize Glenna Hansen of Aklavik. That is where she is originally from. That is my constituency. I would like to welcome Glenna to the House. Enjoy your visit.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize my constituent, Mr. Duncan MacNeil, who is a co-chair on the Minister's Forum on Health. If we had to have a forum, we could not have had better co-chairs. Mr. MacNeil is a former chair of the Community Health Board in Hay River. He has been involved in many activities locally and is a very competent candidate for this position. Thank you.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Henry .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me please to recognize three gentlemen from Burlington, Ontario, presently working in Yellowknife, Mr. Michael Lieber, Steven Dzivy, and Adam Korber. Hopefully we will convince them maybe to move North and live in the great constituency of Yellowknife South. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. I would like to recognize the rest of the people that have not been recognized. Perhaps it is the cold weather out there. Maybe it is your reluctance not to drive back south, but welcome to the Assembly. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Morin .

--Applause

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Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 700

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to quote something here.

Mr. Speaker, we, as elected representatives, have a responsibility to find a solution to this very difficult, diverse issue. I appeal to you, my honourable colleagues and to all parties in this debate, to reach out for a solution that will bring us together, reach out for a solution that will bring us together.

That is a quote from Hansard, March 24, 1999, by the Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories. He goes on to say;

"My Cabinet colleagues and I are committed to using the time to work with aboriginal and community leaders to find a solution that can be supported in the west. In our view, building understanding of the issue and reaching a political resolution is critical if we are to move beyond this issue as a unified new territory."

Speaking to the Western Boundaries issue. That is what this government said on March 24, 1999. Our committee went out and tried to work not only with this government but the people in the western Arctic to come up with a political solution. I had the opportunity today, Mr. Speaker, to stand outside this Legislative Assembly with one of the leaders of the Aboriginal Summit while he spoke to the Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories. What I would like to know now, Mr. Speaker, is what is the Government of the Northwest Territories going to do with the Aboriginal Summit's request, and what was that request to your government? Thank you.

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Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I would like to ask the Member for Tu Nedhe to try and clarify his question because I have not heard him make any reference to Bill 15 , but that is what is in front of the committee. If it is making reference relating to that, you cannot ask it in question period. So I would like to ask the Member to clarify his question.

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Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 700

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the reason I did not say Bill 15 . I asked the Premier if he met with the leader of the Aboriginal Summit right outside of this building today. That leader, on behalf of the Aboriginal Summit, that is in full support of his request, requested the Premier , on behalf of the government to do something. What I would like to know is if he will consider it and what the request was? Thank you.

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Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 700

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Premier , I have heard two questions.

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Return To Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, shortly before this session coming to the building, I ran into Mr. Gary Bohnet. He is the president of the Metis Nation. He is one of the co-chairs of the Aboriginal Summit. He did indicate to me that he got off a conference call with the Aboriginal Summit but not including Bill Erasmus, who is the co-chair, so I would not really call him the leader of the Aboriginal Summit.

He did say to me that the other bare minimum that the Aboriginal Summit that he had on the conference call would accept from this Cabinet is that we, the Cabinet, accept the recommendations that we have been debating yesterday in this House in committee of the whole. That is the bare minimum. He did make reference to Bill 15 , I believe. I tried to keep it out of there, but the debate in the House was recommendation. This is what he told me very briefly before coming in the House.

I did talk very briefly to my colleagues in the hallway coming into the House about it. It is not the adequate time for us to really grasp what the message was. We take very seriously these different requests that come from a representative of the Aboriginal Summit, and we have to take that into consideration. But we in this House, we in this government, we are considering his request, and he is going to have to give us some time to do that. Thank you.

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Return To Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I would like to caution the Ministers too about responding to the bill that is in committee of the whole. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Morin .

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Supplementary To Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On quoting out of Hansard, March 24, 1999, Minister's statements, that statement on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Premier then says, "We as elected representatives, have a responsibility, we have a responsibility to find a solution to this very difficult, diverse issue." Does the Premier and his government, do you still have a responsibility? Is this statement still true today?

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Supplementary To Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Question 250-13(7): Government Response To Aboriginal Request

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I am going to rule the question out of order because we all know, in this House, what the question is about. It is a matter that is in front of the committee. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the Department of Justice. Mr. Speaker, I made a Member's statement today, and I have been asking questions in the House. I want to make it clear from the outset that I have no particular axe to grind with Mr. Kakfwi or any of the Cabinet Ministers, for that matter. I do recognize that Mr. Kakfwi was not the Minister of Justice when the original decision was made regarding the location of the young offenders facility. I wanted to preface my questions with that so that there is no confusion about that.

Yesterday, in response to a question in the House, Mr. Kakfwi answered for me. He stated, and I quote from unedited Hansard, "I know that there is no time to ask and consult MLAs and communities about where else we could possibly locate this one facility," (referring to the young offenders) "let alone two facilities." My question, Mr. Speaker, is why can we not take the time to revisit and consult communities and MLAs on this decision? Thank you.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I tried, in a very gentlemanly way, to point out that the Cabinet, under Premier Morin last year, made a decision to locate a young offenders male facility here in Yellowknife. There were, as I recall, no provisions made for consultation with MLAs or the public.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin , your point of order.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the last few days, I continue to hear the rhetoric out of this Minister referring to previous decisions made by myself as the Premier . I ask you to rule on that because he is talking about previous positions I had. He also mentions and leads the public to believe that he never sat on the same Cabinet. Now, I know he used to hide behind me in my decisions, but he is standing on his own two feet, and he has to get out there one of these days and do that. He should take possession of his decisions, Mr. Speaker. But also I would appreciate it if he quits referring to what I did previously.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. What is your point of order?

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just made it.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I would like to ask the Members to refrain from making reference to Members that have served, whether they are Ministers or not, that no longer are in those positions and even those that were in those positions that cannot defend themselves in this Chamber now, that we should not allow references regarding decisions that were made. Just as we do not make references to the past Assemblies as to what happened during the 12th Assembly is not allowed in this House. I do not think, it is fair to other Members when they are no longer in the position they cannot defend themselves.

It is unfair to them, and it is not appropriate. I would like to ask the Members that they refrain from what happened in the past if those Members cannot defend themselves.

The Minister of Justice is not in this House, the previous minister, to defend himself on any of the decisions that were made too. It is not fair. It is in-appropriate. I would appreciate the Members if they would respect each other by being more courteous in the way they ask questions, as well as in the way they respond. Thank you. Just a reminder to the Members, Mr. Morin does not have a point of order. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 701

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for allowing me to wrap up the first part of my response. The point I was trying to make is that decisions to locate and to carry out certain work, one of which is a $30 million capital commitment, was made over a year ago by Cabinet. I was

trying to spread out the credit.

--Applause

But, if that is not to be the case, that is fine. But Cabinet takes responsibility for the decision that was made at that time. There was no explicit call, at that time, to have wide-ranging consultation about where those facilities would be located or whether or not the $30 million renovation to the adult facility located here in Yellowknife should be considered as a possible total replacement project. No, the Cabinet just decided yes, to locate the young male offenders facility here in Yellowknife, no consultation, no discussion. The same with the $30 million renovation to the adult facility. So the decisions were made last year.

The Member is asking is there any consultation available now. The decisions were made over a year ago. That is the point I was trying to make. I would like to get some credit for saying that, as a Minister who was assigned to this portfolio in April, I did take the time, at the request of certain Members, to review the decisions that were made to see if there were any arguments that could be made to revisit these issues. I have decided, as interested as I was, that it is not in the interest of the public, this government, the inmates or the people that we have commitments to, to revisit the issues at this time.

I do not believe we have the time to consult and to put these projects back on the table. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is, I understand that the decision was made previously but now many things about this project have changed. The method of delivery, the scope of the project and the location of the project. All of these things have changed now so forget about the previous Cabinet, I am asking this Minister now, is it within his ability, within his power to revisit this subject now? Because I think the whole thing has been reopened.

I think the whole thing could be re-examined now and there could be viable and compelling arguments out there if the department could hear from MLAs and could hear from communities. I do not think it does the project justice to proceed now we have an opening to have that. Is it within the Minister's authority to revisit this subject? He? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there has been an undertaking on my part as a Minister to review the basis on which these previous decisions were made. To find our for myself whether or not these decisions were in fact decisions that were sound and should be continued to be supported by me, and whether there were any probable or reasonable grounds on which to go back to Cabinet to ask Cabinet to reconsider. Not only these two projects, but in fact also a number of other capital projects.

I have decided that there would be no particular good that would come of me revisiting and reopening this whole issue that has seen extensive work and resources put to advance it to this stage. So, it is my view, and I asked Cabinet if they still stand behind the decision and Cabinet has indicated they stand behind the decisions made by Cabinet and FMB last year. That is where we are now, we are ready to proceed with the decisions that have been made and we look forward to discussing some changes to the financial aspects of the proceedings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do thank the Minister for his answer, however it is not the answer to my question. My question is, is it within his power, his authority as a Minister of Justice to now conduct consultation and revisit this? He said he has looked at some of the arguments that were made for the decision that was previously made and he concurs with them. But how could he know whether or not they were sound decisions and based on sound information not knowing what other communities may have to offer?

For example, Hay River did not have the opportunity to put forward a proposal of what we could offer in our community. Yesterday the subject came up of services. Hay River has a wonderful hospital. We have a full complement of RCMP detachment. We have counselling services. We have a courthouse. We have many facilities that could complement the establishment of this facility in Hay River. Without that information in hand, I do not know how the Minister could possibly make a comprehensive judgement on this subject, but my question is again, does he have the authority and power to revisit it given the substantive changes in the project recently without consultation? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is going to be a very short response. I do not have the authority to undo a decision of Cabinet, to undermine a decision of Cabinet on my own. I cannot go out and consult and set up a process to undo a decision of Cabinet without expressed approval of Cabinet. I do not have that authority to do that. Thank you.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 702

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, perhaps then if the Minister does not have that authority, he might provide me with some advice or some guidance as to how

we could revisit this because the argument that was made for Cabinet deciding to replace the YCC where it is because it was a replacement. You could apply that same argument to Hay River. The young offenders facility capital project was a replacement. There was no discussion about moving the adult facility. The same argument should apply to Hay River. There should have been no discussion about moving it if it was a replacement of an existing facility.

Could the Minister please provide me with some avenue, some access that I may have to appeal to Cabinet to reconsider this decision because if they would at least give us the opportunity, I am sure we could make a very convincing argument for our community. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 703

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 703

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Whether or not the decision, in the first instance, in isolation or in tandem with the decision to locate capital facilities elsewhere at that particular time, the fact is, as a Minister and as a Cabinet, we believe that locating the adult facility here is the most logical thing to do. To construct a young offenders facility here in partnership with the construction of the adult facility is the way to go. It is my view that we do not have time to revisit this, to put this back on the table. It means the entire capital projects should then also follow the same.

We are not in the business of revisiting Cabinet decisions and opening up capital projects that have been voted on and committed to in this House in Cabinet and in the Financial Management Board. The time to have consulted was prior to June, 1998, and September, 1998. That, unfortunately, as far as I know, was not done. Thank you.

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Question 251-13(7): Consultation On Correctional Facilities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 703

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 703

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier . It is in regards to my Member's statement and the lack of progress in the area of the Northern Accord and also the developments that are taking place, yet there is very little progress in the area of the Northern Accord Agreement which was transferred from the federal government to this government to start negotiating the federal transfer devolution of the Northern Accord for oil and gas mineral resources to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, we have a lot of development happening.

There was an agreement signed just yesterday between the Alberta government and TransCanada Pipelines to start looking at oil and gas reserves in the western Canadian sedimentary basin that goes from Alberta all the way up to the Beaufort Sea. There was mention also that they were looking at the oil and gas in the Beaufort Delta.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier is, it has been over ten years since this agreement was signed off between the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories to conclude those negotiations. Can the Premier tell me how much of a priority is it for this government to conclude those negotiations and what resources have been put to concluding these negotiations? What is the department doing to try to ensure that we do work in this area? Thank you.

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Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 703

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Premier , Mr. Antoine . I heard three questions.

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Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 703

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the whole area of our resources in the Northwest Territories is important to all of us as northerners. We consider the resources as ours. However, we do not have control over it. The federal government has control over our natural resources. They get the taxes and the royalties of our natural resources. They get it from the diamonds. They are going to get it from the gas and the oil out of Norman Wells and all the mining interests. This is the dilemma that we have been in for a long time.

This is one of the last areas of devolution that still exists here in the Northwest Territories which this government has been trying to do some work towards. Previous governments have tried it and have failed. We are attempting to get some understanding among all Northerners to set the groundwork for some possible arrangements. This is what we have been working at since getting in as Premier in December. In January, we undertook an extensive travelling

schedule throughout the whole North, appearing before different organizations and appearing before different communities and explaining the agenda for a new North which the key component of it is gaining control. It is a sharing control of our own resource, and we have to do it in conjunction with the aboriginal governments.

We have to work together, all the organizations, the Government of the Northwest Territories, the aboriginal governments. We have to work together and build consensus before we move forward. The key to this is that the federal government, through Indian and Northern Affairs, controls this whole initiative right now, and we have to convince them somehow. Over the years, we have been fracturalized. The previous attempts to reach a Northern Accord have failed because they are different regions with their own agendas and a sense of their own control.

The last time any federal minister said anything about it was Ron Irwin, who was the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs. He said if you could get 100 percent consensus amongst all the interested parties, then he would consider working toward some resolution. That is a tall order, Mr. Speaker. Since this government took over, we have been trying to do that. We have been meeting with groups. We are trying to set the atmosphere and the environment to try to move towards this. We are putting everything on the table. We are saying what kind of resources we have and the pressures on them.

The only possibilities to gain more resources to provide programs and services in the North are from our own resources, and we have to realize that.

This is where the energy has been put in by this government. The Minister of Finance and the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development have spent a lot of time appearing before citizens in the North trying to explain this initiative. We have not given up on the people of the Northwest Territories. We are trying the best we can in the remaining life of this government. We made a decision yesterday that the election is going to be December 6. We back that up, and we have until the middle of October, about three months, to do some work.

The only thing we could do in the life of this government is try to set the stage, get all the information out there. Hopefully, there is some good dialogue and discussion to develop here in the North by all citizens to realize this is the only avenue that we have to achieve more resources for people in the North so that, hopefully, in the future we will make life better for everybody in the North. Thank you.

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Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it is essential that we do conclude these negotiations, but I do not think it helps anything to make these agreements with national companies such as TransCanada Pipeline and make people aware of what pipelines do and when they cross. You are talking a pipeline up the MacKenzie Valley. It will have a major impact on the aboriginal people and the aboriginal groups that live in those areas.

One of the key components to the land claim agreements in regard to the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in, the Sahtu and all the Dogrib is this component of their land claim agreement to conclude these Northern Accord negotiations. It was done in the Yukon. I do not see why the Yukon government is any different than this government. They dealt with the aboriginal people. They were able to conclude their Northern Accord negotiations. They put the resources forth. They managed to sit down and talk with the aboriginal people, and they did come up with the agreement. I have to ramble on. I do not take six minutes like Mr.

Kakfwi , so I am going to take my time here. I would like to make this government aware this has been done in the Yukon. This agreement has been here since 1988, eleven years...

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Supplementary To Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

You did have the opportunity to make your

preamble. Could you ask your supplementary, please?

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Supplementary To Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just getting to the supplementary. This government has had four years to work on this item, yet no progress has been made, and this government is signing agreements with other jurisdictions. When is this government going to put the priority on these Northern Accord negotiations and try to conclude with the aboriginal people and not use cost as a factor and sit down and set up a table up to start negotiations as soon as possible?

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Supplementary To Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Antoine , I heard two questions.

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Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government has been working on trying to set the atmosphere and get the environment ready to make all the different aboriginal governments aware of the situation we are in. Since January we have been doing that. It is not really up to us to start negotiations. Together, everybody in the north has to deal with the federal government. They have the control. The honourable Member has to understand that this is where the control is. We are working with all the different organizations in trying to achieve this understanding.

The indication that we got from the federal government is that we have to get consensus by everybody involved up here before we move forward.

The other part of the question, I believe, is in regards to an MOU that was signed yesterday by the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development with the province of Alberta. Previously this government had an outstanding memorandum of understanding with the province of Alberta. This was signed previously, which was a very good agreement of cooperation and coordination between Alberta and the Northwest Territories. This MOU yesterday was a subagreement of that MOU that focuses on the possible gas and oil scenarios.

My understanding of this MOU is that it is an agreement between the province of Alberta and the Northwest Territories that whatever they do, they keep us informed of their actions so that whatever decisions are made in Alberta do not have a negative, detrimental effect on us in the Northwest Territories. I think that it is a good agreement because they could make decisions that will have an effect on us in the future, so we need to be aware of what they are doing.

In regard to the TransCanada Pipeline MOU, this one is that TransCanada Pipeline had petitioned the government of Alberta to change the way they set tariffs for gas flowing through their pipeline system. The previous arrangement was that they had what they call a postage stamp arrangement, where no matter what distance you are from the producer, the price is the same. You could be a foot from the pipeline or you could be a thousand miles from the pipeline. The price is the same. They are applying to change the tariff by saying that the farther you are away from the producers, the more you pay.

That will eventually include us here in the Northwest Territories, where the tariffs eventually, down the line, will be a lot higher for us here in the Northwest Territories than in Alberta, and it may have a negative impact in the future. We are setting the stage for the future. Maybe the First Nations up there will be get involved in gas production and oil production so that they do not have to pay the high tariff later on. This is my understanding of what the MOUs were. It is not the opening of our country or allowing pipelines to come through.

This is setting the stage so that people in the North will eventually benefit more from our natural resources. Thank you.

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Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I spoke about the issue of transferring positions from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development's Northern Affairs Program to the North. This has been an ongoing issue for the last three years, with an effort by this government and certainly I have spoken about it for the last three years, to try and pursue the transfer of those positions.

It is our understanding that the Northern Affairs Program has 135 positions in Ottawa, but if we are reasonable about it, we can identify 60 to 70 positions that could potentially be transferred to the North that are dedicated strictly to northern programs. That may have to be divided between Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. Now, the department has done studies on this, Mr. Speaker, and the studies did suggest that this should come about. There were two studies completed, and there was to be a third phase, but the department felt that there was no necessity for the third phase.

I understood that the Minister of Indian Affairs and

Northern Development was going to make an announcement on this matter a number of weeks ago. My question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development to give us an update. First, let me ask if he has had any discussions recently with the federal Minister about this issue? Thank you.

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Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier has been taking the lead on this issue. As I understand it, the federal government hired a consultant to advise them on how best to proceed to answer the question of whether they should go through the exercise of decentralizing staff and their responsibilities of administration to the territories of Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and the Yukon, particularly in regard to the Northern Affairs Program.

They have already done phase one and phase two of the study, and as I understand, recently Jane Stewart, the Minister, has said she will forego phase three and simply fortify herself to make a decision on the issue of whether or not she agrees to decentralize staff and resources from the department and the Northern Affairs program within her department to the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and the Yukon. The Premier is planning to have a meeting with Ms. Stewart next week, and this will be on the agenda. Thank you.

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Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Has our government analyzed the positions that are affected? It seems that the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs has identified 135 positions. Then they stated, but only a certain percentage of that really affects programs here in the North. The rest are policy and so forth. Could the Minister tell me if we have done our own analysis of these positions to see which ones are appropriately positioned in the North? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have done some analysis of the positions and the resources that are at stake here, and we should be prepared to table that for Ministers or for Members when it is available so that they can review those. Hopefully, a decision will be made fairly shortly by the Minister, Jane Stewart. She is still the Minister. There has been no Cabinet shuffle, so fortunately she now has time to make that decision. I will look forward to hearing from her and our Premier next week. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

At the time that I raised this issue, I asked if this government would request the federal government to do an analysis of all positions of all departments in the federal government. Could the Minister tell me if that has been followed up on with regard to transfers to the North? For example, there is the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and Environment, and there are others. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal government, as far as we know, has been only open to reviewing the question of decentralization from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. Fisheries and Oceans and Environment and the other federal departments have no interest and no mandate to discuss decentralization of their staff and resources at this time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If they are not interested in discussing this in the other departments, what is this government doing about addressing that particular issue to try and see what is more appropriately located here in the North? Their argument for the Northern Affairs Program is that it is more effective to have people that are making decisions on the North located here in the North. If that is the case with other government officials in other departments, then it should also pertain to those departments.

As I said earlier, a good example was that if it had not been for us here in the North, us being all people of the North, Hay River people, the Yellowknife people, the legislative people, the Ministers, the MLAs, we would not have a value-added industry developing here in the Northwest Territories, which could be a major industry in Canada. We are the ones that are able to identify this. We need to also address this in terms of other departments and see whether those positions would be more appropriately located here. I repeat my question, what is this government doing about analyzing other departments? Thanks.

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Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have not done any work on analyzing the question of decentralization and its benefits and impact with regard to the North and with respect to federal departments. We have not done any work in that area. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus .

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Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in the area of market gardens, the Community Market Garden Development Program. Mr. Speaker, for some time now all we have been hearing about is what we are going to do in the area of diamond mines and subsidizing gold mines and oil and gas, all the rest of that kind of stuff. People have been asking, when are we going to start supporting and promoting non-renewable resources in the North?

We are very, very pleased that the Minister has announced this support for the Community Market Garden Development Program. I am not sure when the press release came out because the press release is not dated. However, it is number 99-065. The press release says, a new program is supporting development of small-scale foods and market garden production in the Northwest Territories. The Community Market Garden Development Program was recently announced by Minister Stephen Kakfwi . Mr.

Kakfwi is quoted as saying,"Market gardens can play a vital role in northern life, with committed support from the department, not only will community residents learn more about food, it will also provide a valuable stable community service." Mr. Speaker, we thought this was a great idea, so we checked into it a little bit. The press release states that a maximum of $5,000 is available to cover capital start-up costs, and that is true. What it did not say is that $5,000 is the total amount that is allocated for the North Slave region.

I would like to ask the Minister what he meant when he said, with committed support from the department? Could he explain that, please?

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Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program

Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for the compliment. I have not heard anything positive for a couple of days, so I am relieved to know there is something positive on the horizon from him. The Market Garden Development Program was announced in June, perhaps much too late for most of our communities to take advantage of, but as under-resourced as it is, as late as it was introduced, it is still, as the Member recognizes, a good initiative. With dwindling resources, with limited , I as the Minister and the department have chosen to initiate the program anyway.

What we have said is that we are trying to provide at least $5,000 to at least one initiative per community so that anyone who wants to get into market gardening to sell their products will be eligible to receive this assistance. I agree that there is not anywhere near the kind of resources that should be allocated to this, but with more positive comments from the other side, we may be moved to look at increasing it next year, if we can.

I want to encourage Members to be very positive in the way they perceive the hard work of Ministers on this side and to know that there are good things happening in spite of recent perceptions and the rhetoric. Thank you.

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Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program

Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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