Debates of April 22nd, 1999

This is page numbers 273 - 302 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Discontinuing The Internal Competition Process

Report On Public Works And Services Staff Performance

Aurora College Jewellery And Metalwork Program

Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Programs

Recognition Of Successful Bid By Dechi Laot'l Holdings Limited

Transfer Of Federal Positions To Nwt

Failure To Enact Highway Speed Limit Increase

Discontinuance Of Internal Competition Process

Return To Oral Question 22-13(7): GNWT Hiring Process

Return To Oral Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Med-emerg Report Implementation

Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Tabled Document 31-13(7): Report To Minister, Public Works And Services, April 15, 1999

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Identification And Evaluations Of Alternative Sources Of Revenue

Recommendation To Standardize Maca Organization Charts On GNWT Wide Basis

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Erasmus , Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Morin , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Rabesca , Honourable Floyd Roland , Honourable Vince Steen .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 273

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 40-13(7): Discontinuing The Internal Competition Process

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 273

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to announce that Cabinet has decided to discontinue the internal competition process.

--Applause

In March 1998, the government approved a no layoff policy to support stability in the public service. Downsizing was still required as a result of division of the Northwest Territories. The internal competition process was put in place in August 1998 to create mobility for GNWT employees so that layoffs would not be required as a result of this downsizing.

A review of the internal competition process has been completed. It is clear that a continuation of this process will not provide any additional benefit in terms of eliminating positions affected by division. Therefore, the government will discontinue the internal competition process effective April 26, 1999.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to express my continued confidence in the skills and abilities of GNWT employees. Returning to open competitions will allow us to recruit the best people from within our own ranks and from the labour force outside the public service. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 40-13(7): Discontinuing The Internal Competition Process

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 273

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Steen .

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Minister's Statement 41-13(7): Report On Public Works And Services Staff Performance

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 273

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week, Members of this House asked several questions concerning a review being done into the processes followed by employees of the Department of Public Works and Services. I made a commitment at that time to consider making this report available to Members once it became available.

Mr. Speaker, the focus of this review was the manner in which PWS employees performed their duties in relation to the lease of office space in Fort Resolution, the renewal of the lease for the Lahm Ridge Tower, and in the preparation of ministerial briefings. In

summary, Mr. Speaker, Mr. McLennan has concluded in his report that PWS employees substantially complied with the processes and policies of the Government of the Northwest Territories in the conduct of their duties. Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling this document at the appropriate time today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 41-13(7): Report On Public Works And Services Staff Performance

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 273

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ministers' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 42-13(7): Aurora College Jewellery And Metalwork Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 273

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight a successful program that is helping northerners combine artistic and business training. The Jewellery and Metalwork Program is a partnership between Aurora College, Nunavut Arctic College and the Dogrib Community Services Board. It has been operating out of a classroom in the Chief Jimmy Bruneau School and is staffed by experienced instructors and professional jewellers.

Ten students from Rae-Edzo have taken

part in the program since January. They have learned design, small business operations and metalsmithing techniques for silver, brass and copper jewellery. Mr. Speaker, one of the many important aspects of this program is the opportunity it provides these young people to eventually participate in the secondary diamond industry. Aurora College is currently working with the department to identify funding through Labour Market Initiatives to continue this program in the fall. The next session would focus on lapidary and facetting skills. It is hoped that indicator stones from kimberlite pipes could be cut, polished and incorporated into the students' work.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to invite all Members and the public to support this program by attending the students show later today. They will be exhibiting their work between 3:00 pm and 8:00 p.m. at the Aurora College campus here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 42-13(7): Aurora College Jewellery And Metalwork Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 273

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members'

statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Member's Statement 113-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the Budget Address, it stated that there will be no cuts to the existing programs in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, I do have some concerns regarding the cuts that are taking place in the government and, especially in the area of the NWT Development Corporation. In particular, Mr. Speaker, my concerns are in regard to two particular projects which are in my riding, the Fort McPherson Tent and Canvas Shop and the Aklavik - Tuktoyaktuk Fur Limited project. Mr. Speaker, these two projects are critical to the economic well- being of those two communities.

It not only brings pride to those individuals working there, but it also gives them a feel for being respected for work that they do.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is essential that this government not only look at how it can improve our economies but also try to expand these economies. In both cases in Aklavik and Fort McPherson, the work- force is getting older, we have to spend more money on training new people and bringing them into that particular sector. Also, Mr Speaker, in meeting with the managers of the Fort McPherson Canvas Shop and the Aklavik Fur Shop, that one of the big concerns that they have is their involvement in what goes on within the Business Development Corporation and how they are monitoring these two projects.

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of concerns raised about their involvement in what is happening in this particular department. At no time in the last three years, there has been no effort made by this department or the Minister of this portfolio to make an attempt to go into these two fine businesses that we have in place in Fort McPherson and Aklavik to see exactly who is making these canvas bags and the fur hats and see the pride of those people that do work on these specific projects. Mr.

Speaker, the concern I have is that there is talk about revising or restructuring this particular corporation or organization and I feel this may threaten the jobs of these people in my riding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 113-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Member's Statement 114-13(7): Recognition Of Successful Bid By Dechi Laot'l Holdings Limited

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today Mr. Speaker, I rise to congratulate the community of Wekweti and their newly formed company Dechi Laot'l Holdings Limited for the successful bid that was award recently to build the Wekweti fire hall. This newly formed company was able to successfully compete against six other contractors. The total contract price for the completion of the Wekweti fire hall came in at $470,137 and the interesting thing about this contract is the fact that the Dechi Laot'l Holdings Limited won it.

This is very good news for the community of Wekweti as it will give a number of residents in the community employment and also will provide a boost in the local economy. I again would like to congratulate the community and its company for a job well done. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 114-13(7): Recognition Of Successful Bid By Dechi Laot'l Holdings Limited

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 115-13(7): Transfer Of Federal Positions To Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I see a lot of similarities, Mr. Speaker, between our government and the federal government. Both do studies, consultations and produce reports and produce only meagre meat and potatoes. My comments today though, will be in regard to the federal government, Mr. Speaker. Two years ago we considered a motion that I put forward before the House and passed it that we have a comprehensive list developed of federal positions that are dedicated to policy and development in the Northwest Territories of positions located in the south and these positions be repositioned here in the North.

There are hundreds of positions all across Canada better placed here in the Northwest Territories and the Nunavut areas. No longer should important decisions be left to those in southern Canada who do not have to live with the consequences of their decisions and their actions.

In response to our motion, Mr. Speaker, DIAND hired a consulting firm to assess potential transfers. A report was issued in July of 1998 and it confirmed that there is solid rationale of a transfer of federal positions. In December, we were informed by the Deputy Premier that of the three federal government departments with significant staff dedicated to the north, such as DIAND, Environment and Fisheries and Oceans, it is likely that only staff from the Northern Affairs program of DIAND would be considered.

Now the Northern Affairs Program has 135 positions, but only 80 to 90 might be classified as solely dedicated to work in the north. Last fall the federal government signed a devolution protocol with the government of the Yukon and reached agreement to transfer a potential 20 NAP positions. Yet DIAND has been silent on the transfer with respect to the Northwest Territories. There are hundreds of jobs that should be located in the north. I say to the federal government, stop spending those thousands of dollars on studies and just get on with it and give us some meat and potatoes.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 115-13(7): Transfer Of Federal Positions To Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Henry .

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Member's Statement 116-13(7): Failure To Enact Highway Speed Limit Increase

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 274

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, sometimes I get the impression that as a Legislature we are regulated by the bureaucracy, instead of the other way around. The reason I make a sarcastic remark like that is that I remain convinced that the Department of Transportation is dragging its feet in implementing legislation duly passed in this Legislature. I refer, Mr. Speaker, to Bill 19,

An Act to Amend the Public Highways Act and the Motor Vehicles Act, which was passed in this House last December. The bill removed the speed restrictions contained in these acts and allows the Commissioner and hence the Minister of Transportation to set the speed limits higher than the current restriction of 90 kilometres an hour.

Mr. Speaker, all Members of this House including the Minister of Transportation of the day, our Premier , Mr. Antoine , supported this bill. It has been four months, Mr. Speaker, more than adequate time in my opinion, to enact the legislation duly passed in this House to raise the speed limits on portions of our highways that are comparable with those in southern jurisdictions.

It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that increases to the speed limits are being stalled and all that is required to make a decision is the necessary political direction.

The fact that certain sections of the highway are inundated with buffalo is no reason to not increase the speed limits on the entire highway system. Mr. Speaker, under the Motor Vehicles Act, people have a responsibility to drive to road conditions. They are warned by signs that there are buffalo on the road and that they should drive accordingly. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, how this impacts the speed limits. Later on today, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Premier of the Northwest Territories questions on this particular issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 116-13(7): Failure To Enact Highway Speed Limit Increase

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 275

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus .

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Member's Statement 117-13(7): Discontinuance Of Internal Competition Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 275

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about the hiring process and in response to the Premier 's announcement today that Cabinet was going to discontinue the internal competition process. Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Cabinet on responding to the concerns of some of the MLAs over here that have indicated that this internal competition process was an inconsistency in the policies of this government. I would like to thank the Cabinet for listening to our concerns.

Obviously our staff are very valuable and we have to try to keep them on as much as we can throughout these trying times when jobs are discontinued. However, our policies have to be consistent. The problem here was that people had been laid-off and classified as priority hires and they could not apply on those internal competitions, and neither could affirmative action people if they were not working for the government. It is good to see that this has been done after our review to ensure that things are okay.

The other thing that still has to be done is the perception of the hiring process which does not seem to be fair at this time, the perception is, it is not fair. That is primarily because there is no independent body in the hiring process, only people from the department. We still need to work on that. Mr. Speaker, right now the process may be fair to people that are applying, but it does not appear to be fair. Putting independent people into the hiring process will help to solve that. We need to put people in there who do not have to fear losing their jobs if they do not hire the people that their superiors want hired. That is how you fix the perception. Thank you.

BApplause

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Member's Statement 117-13(7): Discontinuance Of Internal Competition Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 275

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Oral Question 22-13(7): GNWT Hiring Process

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 275

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Erasmus on March 23, 1999, regarding the GNWT's hiring process. The internal hiring process was implemented on August 17, 1998, to assist the government in downsizing and redeployment of current staff in a non-lay-off environment. This process was open to indeterminate employees and employees who were on the layoff list. In accordance with our layoff procedures employees could choose a package which would give them priority hiring for up to one year.

Priority one candidates who were indeterminate employees, received priority on internal competitions. Priority one candidates who were not indeterminate employees were not given priority consideration until after the internal hiring process had been completed. If the internal hiring process was not successful, an open competition was held and all priority one candidates were given consideration. Earlier today, Mr. Speaker, I announced that Cabinet has approved discontinuing the internal competition process.

After a review of this process was completed, it was determined that a continuation of the process would not likely result in further opportunities to eliminate positions affected by division. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question 22-13(7): GNWT Hiring Process

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 275

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Steen .

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Return To Oral Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 275

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Groenewegen on April 20, 1999, in reference to the Lahm Ridge Review terms of reference which she requested be tabled in the House. The terms of reference for this review of Public Works and Services are included in the report that will be tabled today.

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Return To Oral Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 275

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 275

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question concerns my statement referring to Minister Kakfwi in regard to the projects that I mentioned in Aklavik and Fort McPherson, where we have the canvas shop in McPherson and the fur shop in Aklavik. A concern I have, Mr. Speaker, is that there is talk about a review of this department. I would like some assurances from this Minister that there will not be any layoffs or basically downsizing of these two unique projects, in my riding.

Without those we will have a bigger cost to this government relation to welfare costs, income support costs and people who are unemployed and do not feel that they are helping the economy of the Northwest Territories, but at this time they are. I would like to ask the Minister, can he give me some

assurances that there will not be any drastic cuts to this program or layoffs in relation to the review?

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Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is our intent to continue to support the subsidiaries that are operating in the communities under the NWT Development Corporation because of division and a reduction in overall funding in the department. But, because of the termination of programs like the Northern Employment Strategy it has become necessary to review, for instance, the operation of the NWT Development Corporation where it is our intent to ensure that the subsidiaries operating in the communities shall continue and, we will reorganize to provide as much support as we can to make sure that they continue to be viable operations. Thank you.

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Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to this review, what attempt has been made by the department or the Minister's office to inform these two vibrant groups, the McPherson project and the fur project in Aklavik to make them aware of these changes that are happening within the department and their involvement regarding this review?

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Supplementary To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, we have asked the new President of the Development Corporation, Mr. Koe, to prepare, with the assistance of the board of the Development Corporation a new business plan with a reduced operating budget for this year. I believe the meetings between the deputy minister of my department and Mr. Koe, the new President of the Development Corporation, they have started as of today. They have begun to undertake work to review the operations of the Development Corporation and to see how it could perhaps improve on the way it operates.

Some of the questions that come up, Mr. Speaker, for instance, are the size of the headquarters operation and the amount of money allocated to Arctic Trading which is the marketing arm of the Development Corporation. With division the number of subsidiaries operating under the Development Corporation have been reduced dramatically. The quantity of products that could be marketed have also been reduced substantially because the Eastern Arctic is now choosing to set up their own independent operations and so it has become necessary to redo the business plan and review the operations of the Development Corporation. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the concerns I had from both managers in Aklavik and McPherson is that the interest that is shown from the department in regard to the Business Development Corporation, and also the Minister's office of making attempts to go in to see for themselves exactly what these operations are made of and who these individuals are that are producing these products. I would like to ask the Minister if he can assure myself and the people in Aklavik and McPherson that he will make an attempt, along with Mr.

Koe, to go into both of these communities and see for yourselves first-hand exactly what is being done in those communities, so you could get a feel for basically the pride that these people put into developing these products. Can the Minister give me that commitment?

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Supplementary To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be prepared to sit down with the Member of the Legislature to look at the earliest date that could be possible and convenient for all of us to pay a visit to Fort McPherson and Aklavik and perhaps Tuktoyaktuk to review the operations of those subsidiaries there. I am prepared to do that. Thank you.

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Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the question about marketing, it is one thing that seems to have been really lacking from those subsidiaries, that they were not involved in any marketing of products, or even involved in talking to the people that are in southern Canada who market these products and educating these people on exactly who the people are that do produce these products and where these communities are. Where is Tuktoyaktuk, where is Fort McPherson, where is Aklavik?

I think as an educational tool it is important that they play a more hands-on involvement in anything that happens with marketing the products that they produce. Can the Minister also make some assurances that they will also consider looking at the involvement of these enterprises that this department holds so that they are involved in all aspects of producing these products?

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Supplementary To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 276

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been some initial discussions with Mr. Koe to look at the marketing arm of the Development Corporation and its Arctic Trading Company Ltd. to see whether it is the preferred and most convenient way of marketing the products that are developed through the subsidiaries, whether there is more local

control and input necessary, or whether there is a blending of those two types of approaches to marketing that could be achieved. So, it is the intention of Mr. Koe to speak to the subsidiaries to discuss with them the future of Arctic Trading and the preferred approach to marketing in the future by the subsidiaries involved. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 99-13(7): Reductions To Nwt Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Question 99-13(7): Reductions To NWT Development Corporation Subsidiaries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I spoke earlier about the similarities between our government and the federal government in doing reports and studies. I just have some questions for Mr. Antoine , the Premier , in this regard. The point is, Mr. Speaker, that the federal government has been studying this issue for some time now and I referred to meat and potatoes, and I am not asking for gravy on it, I am just asking for a bit of meat and potatoes and I wonder if the Premier could tell us and update us as to what the Northern Affairs Program transfer situation is today?

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Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Premier , Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the DIAND report on looking at the possibility of transferring positions in that federal department that deals specifically with issues in the Northwest Territories and development policies and so forth for us up here and making decisions on our behalf up here in terms of our natural resources that are located in Ottawa or Hull, Quebec. There are some positions there that we have requested the federal government, the department, to look at the possibilities of transferring these positions over here. We have been at this for some time now, over a couple of years that department had initiated a multi-phased study to look at it.

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Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. DIAND did do a report and it was some 60 pages in size. I guess I am cynical from time to time, Mr. Miltenberger , because, in this case I am cynical. A report was done of 60 pages, and yet we hear rumours about another report having to be prepared, another report having to be studied, in order to get this transfer brought about. I would like to know if the Minister may be aware of whether further study is being done on this issue at this particular time?

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Supplementary To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I would like to remind the Members about the rules on questions to the Ministers. A Member cannot ask a question that is not within reasonable knowledge of the Minister, I believe. I do not know whether or not the Premier would know what the federal Cabinet's decision is with regard to this. Again, when it makes reference to Cabinet, they are secret discussions there, too. Mr. Antoine , do you wish to respond?

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Further Return To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding of it is this study was supposed to be a three phase study and the report that I received is the report for the second phase. We are assuming there will be a third phase in the study, and it has taken about three years. We are very disappointed that they have to study it so much to say no, and I think, I have always said, it is a political decision to move these positions. We will continue to pursue the federal Minister, like I said earlier, and we will see where this will take us. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In our motion of two years ago, we also asked that an inventory be requested from the federal government. There are other departments beyond Northern Affairs, such as Fisheries and Oceans and the Department of Environment, which apparently have substantial individuals or positions dedicated to northern work. It would be nice to have that inventory. I wonder if the Minister could tell us if he can pursue the direction of that motion to get an inventory of federal positions in the other departments? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Again, to remind the Members, you cannot ask a Minister a question that is beyond his responsibility. Mr. Antoine , do you wish to respond?

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Further Return To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 277

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I could say is that I agree with the honourable Member that people who work in the north with the federal government; in whichever department they are, and who are making the decisions in regard to the way things are going to affect us up here, should live in the north. The inventory the honourable Member is asking for, we have not received anything and I do not even know whether the inventory was requested from the department executive. I will check on that and I will inform the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Question 100-13(7): Update On Northern Affairs Transfer Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Henry .

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Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier of the Northwest Territories and has to do with my Member's statement today regarding increasing the speed limit on the portion of highway between the Alberta border and Rae-Edzo.

Mr. Speaker, I would refer to the Hansard of May 26, 1998. It was in a response, by the then Minister of Transportation , our present Premier , Mr. Antoine , and it was in response to questions I had asked about increasing the speed limit. The Minister of the day said, and I quote "The department's view has been that we should wait until the whole system is complete between Edzo and Yellowknife before we revisit that again, increasing the speed limit." I also note, in yesterday's Hansard, on a question to Mr. Steen , where I asked where these changes would be implemented. Mr.

Steen noted, and I quote "the department is considering all aspects of the motion, including the effect of increasing the speed limit on the highway."

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the Premier that not only was there support for this initiative, we in this House passed legislation to that effect. My question to the Premier and it is not cynical, Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier is, I want the Premier to tell me, and the people of the Northwest Territories, who is running this show? Is it the Legislature or the Department of Transportation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker

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Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier .

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Return To Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories takes the direction of the Legislative Assembly very seriously

--Applause

and in regard to the bureaucracy, they are there to give us the best advice that they could give us. Based on the advice, we will determine what to do, but the ultimate decision rests with the Cabinet. Thank you.

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Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when that legislation was introduced in the past, it was very clear that the increasing of the speed limit was on the portion of the highway between the border and Rae-Edzo. Mr. Speaker, it was worded in such a way to give the Minister of Transportation the prerogative to increase it as he saw fit, but it was clear that it was a request to have that speed limit increased between the border and Fort Rae. My question to the Minister is, will he direct the Minister of Transportation , sorry, Mr.

Speaker, to the Premier , will he direct his Minister of Transportation and the Deputy Minister of Transportation , to bring back a plan to implement a speed increase to 100 kilometres per hour on the portion of the highway between the border and Fort Rae? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Further Return To Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I prefer to work with the other Ministers in the Cabinet and not necessarily direct them to do certain things, as well as the direction of the Legislative Assembly. It is the prerogative of the Minister to work with his department. You have to realize that we are a new Cabinet, and this legislation was passed last fall in November or December, so I think the advice of the bureaucracy is that we should try to wait until things thaw out so that the road condition stabilizes as well as taking into consideration the safety factor.

However, I could commit that I will work with my Minister of Transportation and look at the new speed limit to those sections of the highway that have been reviewed by the department, the Highway 1 and Highway 3, Alberta border to the Rae-Edzo area. I will make a commitment that we will review it and make a commitment to come forward within three weeks to you, to the rest of the Legislative Assembly, with a decision that will come along with looking at this

section of the highway. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Question 101-13(7): Implementation Of Increase In Speed Limit

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus .

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Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development . Just in a follow-up on Mr. Krutko 's questions on the marketing of the goods from the subsidiaries of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation. I understand that Arctic Trading Company was created in order to do this. Could the Minister explain how the Arctic Trading Company worked up to this point? Thank you.

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Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 278

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Previous to my assuming this portfolio, the subsidiaries under the Development Corporation had used products ranging from moccasins to dolls and carvings, through subsidiaries, most of which are located now in the territory of Nunavut. There was no concerted effort to market and no particular operation that did exclusive marketing.

Since assuming the portfolio, we have seen the creation of Arctic Trading Company which, again, marketed mostly eastern Arctic products, and also set up certain outlets in southern Canada, namely, I believe, in Vancouver, Victoria, Calgary and Toronto, are the stores that the marketing arm set up and operated. With division happening the marketing arm, Arctic Trading, found itself as a million dollar operation with very little produce, in fact, left to market since the Eastern Arctic

has insisted that they will set up their own operations and do not wish to use Arctic Trading any longer. That is, in very general terms, what has been happening over the last three years. Thank you.

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Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister had indicated that the Arctic Trading Company had its funding reduced. Presumably that has resulted in some repercussions to the company. What kind of changes have been made to reflect the reduced funding? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr.

Speaker, because of the impact of division and because of concerns with the Auditor General that have been outstanding for some years, that we have been unable to resolve substantially, although the documents that we provided to the standing committee on the review of the Main Estimates were given the target of a lower $4 million for the Development Corporation, we have in fact asked that in view of the impact of division, and the need to look at Arctic Trading and the size of headquarters to ask the Development Corporation to look at putting together a new work plan with a reduced allocation to the Development Corporation.

Mr. Soloy, who was the President at that time, had undertaken to develop such a business plan. We had indicated to the standing committee at that time that was what we intended to do.

There is still no revised business plan prepared by the Development Corporation since the new President at this time is reviewing the operations and reviewing the concerns of the Auditor General and meeting with the Development Corporation subsidiaries to get a good understanding of the state of the Development Corporation before undertaking to meet the commitment that I have asked him to meet. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can appreciate that there is no business plan done yet, however, I imagine that people are still selling goods from these subsidiaries, as they are supposed to be doing. If your budget has been cut in half, or in one quarter, or one tenth or whatever, you usually reduce. So what I want to know is, how has the Arctic Trading Company reduced or downsized or whatever you want to call it in order to react to the reduction in its funding? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have said earlier, because of division the amount of product that the Arctic Trading Company is expected to market has been reduced substantially. There is very little product from the eastern Arctic, very few subsidiaries that are, in fact, being serviced by the Development Corporation since division. Therefore it is difficult to rationalize continuing to fund the Development Corporation, specifically the headquarters and the Arctic Trading Company at the level that we were funding it previous to division.

That was the reason I had asked if the Development Corporation President could prepare a new business plan to meet the reduction in overall funding of the operations of the Development Corporation. It was not intended to reduce the funding we give to the subsidiaries or to the level of subsidies that we provide to the community operations that we have. I think that should be clear.

Members are also aware that with the sunsetting of the Northern Employment Strategy, we are short of funding for operations like the Community Futures and there is a demand by communities and regions to set up loan operations as we have, and we need to free up funding in other areas in order to meet this demand as well.

The intent is to recognize that the Development Corporation is no longer of the size that it was previous to division and, with the impact of division, it is my expectation that we can reduce the level of funding to the Development Corporation without impacting negatively the viability and ongoing operations of those businesses that we have set up in the communities. In fact, we will do what we can to enhance those through the reduction and reallocation of resources. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus .

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Supplementary To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for the reassurances that he is not going to be cutting money to the subsidiaries. However, I did not say one word or ask any questions or make any comments about the subsidiaries or the money going to the subsidiaries. The Minister has cut the funding to the Arctic Trading Company. How have they reduced their costs? Have they shut down some stores? Have they laid off all of their employees? That is all I want to know.

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Supplementary To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 279

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Development Corporation has not submitted a revised business plan or prepared one that could be reviewed by myself at this time. That is underway. We have indicated to them that the level of funding that we give them will be reduced and the challenge to the Development Corporation President is to try to meet that target. What specifically they are doing, I am not certain exactly what has been done to date but I believe that an outlet that had been set up by Mr. Soloy, for instance, in BC outside of Vancouver, is closing or has been closed and we are also looking at closing an outlet in Calgary. Both of these

locations have been losing money and have been a drain on the resources of the Development Corporation. I would require more information before I can give other specific measures that may have been undertaken at this time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Question 102-13(7): Structure Of Arctic Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Morin .

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Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I sit here and listen with the greatest of interest to the Minister of RWED, and his responses to my colleague, Mr. Krutko of the MacKenzie Delta and Mr. Erasmus , of Yellowknife North. The Arctic Canada Trading Company and the Development Corporation in general, just so I get a clear picture, Mr. Speaker, of what is really happening. The Development Corporation is revising a business plan, that is what the Minister said.

The Development Corporation is reviewing its operation with Arctic Canada Trading Company, but prior to the review being finalized, prior to the business plan being finalized they are starting to shut down their operations in southern Canada. They shut down an operation in the Vancouver area, he mentioned. They shut down an operation in Calgary, he mentioned, so are they shutting down stores, Mr. Speaker, prior to the finish of a revised business plan or an actual business plan or action plan. Thank you.

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Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these decisions were made because of things like timelines and the need to renew leases, so whether or not there was a review in the reduction of funding, I believe that it was the view of the staff and the people in charge of the Development Corporation that, following Mr. Soloy leaving that we could no longer rationalize and continue to operate these outlets in southern Canada and that business decisions had to be made and they were made. These did not impact on the northern communities. These were outlets that were set up in southern cities to make money and to sell our products in southern outlets and they were not doing that very well. Thank you.

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Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Morin .

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Supplementary To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that answer. My supplementary is for the same Minister. It is not actually that the Minister's department is reviewing the operations. They have already actioned these things. They have already done things. So it cannot be said that they are waiting for a review, because action has been taken. They have decided to shut down two southern stores. I do not know, Mr. Speaker, if the community businesses depend on southern products they produce or not. Does that work into the equation and how are they going to sell the products?

Usually you do not go on a boat trip and burn the boat from underneath you. You need to get there. If there is no plan in place, to replace the stores they shut down in southern Canada, how are they going to market the products in the Northwest Territories and when will that plan be ready?

Also, Mr. Speaker, I guess I am concerned with the Minister and his response to the Members and bringing private citizens' names into the Assembly because none of us do that because of respect for those people. I am sure there was a ruling before on that. So possibly the Minister could refrain from that as well, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Tu Nedhe can rise on a point of order if he has a problem or if his privilege has been denied. Mr. Morin .

Point of Order

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Supplementary To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of order. The Minister of RWED raised an individual or a private citizen's name in the Assembly. That individual has no way of defending himself or reputing or anything else in this House. Mr. Speaker, I know you have made a ruling on that before and it just concerns me when individuals, whether they are employees or not, private citizens' names are used in the Assembly by a Minister of this government. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I will make my ruling on your point once I review the Hansard. Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi , I heard two questions.

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Further Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I only recall one. It is in regard to how will we market the products that are produced in our communities and when will the business plan be ready to reflect that. I would say that Arctic Trading can continue if the President and the board believe it is the best way to market.

The challenge, as I said, is for the new President and the board to prepare a business plan that will allow them to continue operating a headquarters and Arctic Trading, if they wish, or some sort of a marketing agency to continue to operate the subsidiaries with the approved subsidies that have been extended. This business plan is being developed, it is underway and will include some indication and will be prepared after discussions with the various community subsidiaries that the Development Corporation has as how they, the communities, wish marketing to be done.

Whether it is exclusively through Arctic Trading, if not, what other options do they wish to look at, or do they want to do their own marketing exclusively. That is going to be an item of discussion, I believe, that Mr. Koe is going to have, the new president of the NWT Development Corporation, will have with the existing subsidiaries. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Morin .

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Supplementary To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 280

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister stated earlier in response to a question that these plans and these

shutting down of stores was developed by the NWT Development Corporation through the Arctic Trading Store. The plans were developed but I also know, Mr. Speaker, that there is a Board of Directors of the NWT Development Corporation. Is this shutdown and this restructure initiated through the board at all or does the board play any role at all in these types of decisions, or is it all directed directly out of the Minister's office and through his deputy minister? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will take the question as notice because I think it is important to avoid quibbling about exactly who did what to whom at what time that I prepare a written response to that. There are certain specific dates...

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Further Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. So noted. Mr. Morin .

Point of Privilege

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Further Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Point of privilege. Sorry, Mr. Speaker. Myself, as a Member of the Legislative Assembly for Tu Nedhe, take my questioning of Ministers very seriously, and I take that privilege to be a serious privilege, and I do not take it as quibbling. I am sure Mr. Krutko does not take it as quibbling, or Mr. Erasmus , when we ask this Minister questions. I would appreciate it very much if he does not try to swipe it away as such, like he just finished stating. Our questions as Members in this Legislative Assembly to Ministers in this Legislative Assembly are serious business. We are representing our constituents.

It is on the order paper, question period, not quibbling period. If he does not like the questions he does not have to answer them, but we have the right to ask the questions. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Question 103-13(7): Closure Of Southern Outlets Of Arctic Canada Trading Company

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Again, to ask the Members if they can respond without upsetting Members on either side of the House when they respond to questions or are asking questions. There is no point of privilege. The Member is not stopped from carrying out his duty. Perhaps just the language that is being used in this Chamber has upset the Member, but there was no point of privilege. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently in the House we have been speaking quite frequently about the cost and usefulness of studies, strategies, review, et cetera. Not so long ago the Department of Health and Social Services commissioned a report called the Med-Emerg Report, at a reported cost of $750,000. My questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services . Did that report serve as a useful document to the operations of the department, and could he tell us if it enhanced the delivery of health and social services to the people of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we know the Med-Emerg Report did receive a lot of debate in this Assembly. It was commissioned by the previous Minister, now moved on to Nunavut. The Med-Emerg Report itself was delivered to the department and is being used in a number of areas in the health care system, but it is early in the process to gauge if there is an actual end effect from the report. I know, for example, in confirming with the Member for Mackenzie Delta that the Department of Health and Social Services will go out and do a ministerial forum on western health care.

Parts of the Med-Emerg Report will be used in setting up that process. We believe that all the work that has been done on behalf of this government through the Med-Emerg, we will be able to take some positive aspects of that and move forward with other initiatives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my honourable colleagues in this House have suggested it is being, in fact, used and used as a doorstop, but the Minister assures us that that is not the case. I do recall debate in this House on the Med-Emerg Report but, in fact, I think the majority of the debate was on the cost of the report as opposed to the contents of the report. Mr. Speaker, were any of the recommendations contained in the Med-Emerg Report implemented to date? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While conferring with my colleagues here on the Med-Emerg Report I failed to catch the last part of the Member's question. I apologize for that, but can she repeat that, please.

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will leave out my

preamble. Were any of the recommendations of the Med-Emerg Report implemented to date? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 281

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I apologize for that. I could not give the Member a specific example of what part of the Med-Emerg Report was or is being used to date in the health care system. I would have to get back to the Member with that, but I do know that part of the Med-Emerg Report was dealing with the P3 issue to a certain degree of alternate financing within health care and the facilities we use, so I know there were a number of areas that have been included. As I stated earlier, in the ministerial forum that I will be

sending out here over the spring, summer and hopefully coming to a conclusion in early fall, will include some of the information we received through the Med-Emerg Report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Med-Emerg Report, I understand, was an exercise in collecting and compiling a very comprehensive overview of health care services in the Northwest Territories. Could the Minister please tell us what the different slant or the different purpose is of the ministerial forum which now he is going to commission to go out and collect information as well? Could he identify for us why this would be different than the information solicited by the Med-Emerg Report? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the ministerial forum that we are proposing to send out will be focused on the people and how they feel the system is being used, but it will have a focus to it. As I said earlier, we will be taking some of the information from existing work that has been done on the other strategies and combining that and getting response from the people of the Northwest Territories.

The Med-Emerg Report itself, was more of an internal process with some consultants and the professional end of it and had some input from the health boards. This one is going to go further out into the public and get some response back as well as sharing information on the concerns we have as the Department of Health and Social Services in sustainability and where we are going with our system as we know it, and trying to get some concrete answers as to what the future holds and preparing future Assemblies for the direction they will go with in Health and Social Services. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, how soon could the Minister anticipate and would he consider tabling in this House prior to the commencement of the ministerial forum on health and Social Services, the anticipated cost and also the terms of reference of this particular forum. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Roland . Two questions.

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Further Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The ministerial forum, right now the terms of reference I have been working on those with the department and we are close to bringing those to the attention of the Members. I am planning, before the end of the recess of the session, that I will have a letter out to Members requesting a name from them as well, letters and calls will be going out to organizations within the territory for possible representatives to be named to this forum. As I said earlier, hopefully from that this process will be a much more public process and will be set up in an atmosphere were we are trying to get some concrete feedback on the system and how we operate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Question 104-13(7): Med-emerg Report Implementation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have some real concerns regarding the statement made by the Minister of Finance in the committee of the whole. It is to do with the incremental cost that was occurred by this government for division, especially the amount of money that was incurred by this government, and the Western Territory for the cost of division. Mr. Speaker, I was under the assumption by the previous Minister of Finance , that do not worry, everything is okay, the federal government will pick up the tab.

--Applause

But, yet, Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves today without money for education or health. We are short of money and we are stuck holding the bag for the cost of division. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance exactly why were we caught with the cost of division in the Western Territory?

--Applause

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Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I comment as to why the federal government has refused to live up to, what we believe was their obligation to pay for the incremental costs of division, but I do know that they have been approached many times. We had initially been led to believe that there would be some support for all additional costs this government incurred, but, unfortunately, we have been unable to convince the federal government to follow through and provide that level of support. Thank you.

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Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 282

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe as Members on this side of the House we were mislead by the previous Minister of Finance to agreeing, from the western prospective that we will be able to retrieve these costs, and the basic costs we were talking about were in the millions of dollars

because of the amount of money we spent on training people. In regard to the Western Territory, the cost of moving people from the Yellowknife headquarters office to the Iqaluit office and also to the regional centres in the east. Can the Minister tell me exactly what the cost is that this government incurred, basically the cost for us to assist in division and the cost to this government at this time? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said yesterday in committee of the whole, I have been informed soft costs were not tracked for the last while because it became very clear that the federal government was absolutely refusing to pay those costs. I would like to make it clear that it is not millions of dollars, what we are talking about is staff time. Particularly time for the deputy ministers and other senior staff to assist in setting up policies and procedures and getting the process of division done. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I find it interesting that the Minister referenced that they knew for some time that this decision was made by Ottawa, yet as Members in this House, we were never told that that decision was made by the people in Ottawa that we will not be recouping our money for the incremental costs of government. When did this government know that decision was made by Ottawa?

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Supplementary To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer that question. I do not know when the government actually knew. I think the presentations were made to the federal government on a continuing basis right up until the point of the division of the territories requesting their consideration for these incremental funds. I remember hearing the previous Minister being questioned in the House, and his response being that the federal government had not yet agreed to fund the amounts on a specific dollar basis.

The federal government have said no on several occasions and I believe that was reported to the House previously, but I would have to check with the department and previous Hansards to see whether or not that was the case.

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Further Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I for one, do not believe we should just give up on this endeavour of trying to recoup those costs from the federal government, or even from the Nunavut government in the east. This cost was procured by that government and I believe we should continue the effort to try and retrieve those cost. For us to say let us not worry about it and we will try to gain it through another route, it may be a long time before we can gain it through the other route.

I would like to ask the Minister, will he continue to lobby his federal counterparts in Ottawa and also the Minister of Finance in the federal government and also our Prime Minister to see exactly why were we stuck with those costs which we were made to understand that we would not be incurring those costs in this government?

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Supplementary To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be pleased to follow up with the department to see if we can advance the case one more time. I will endeavour to do that fairly quickly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 105-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. We have 25 seconds left. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 106-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to follow up on Mr. Krutko 's point. Yesterday I questioned the Minister and while, at the time, I thought that he was correct. You have to identify the battles you want to fight but, I started thinking later on, Mr. Speaker, and the reality is I think that I was under the impression as well that we were going to recover that money. We discussed that many times and I think it is a sorrowful state of affairs when we have to sit here, a sad state of affairs, that we have to sit here and today say, oh well, unfortunately we did not get our money. Nunavut has been treated very well by the federal government

--Applause

and I think we should be treated very well. To suggest that we just give up on that, I thought about this last night, and I think that is shameful for us to sit here and say, no, no, we should pass on. So my question, Mr. Speaker, for the Minister of Finance is, could he find out for us if the Western Coalition that worked with, I believe, the Minister of Finance , was informed that we would not be pursuing this funding back to the territorial government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 106-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 106-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 106-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 283

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there seems to be some misinformation here. I did not say that we ever quit pursuing the money. I said that the federal government did not quit saying no. Maybe I should say that a little more loudly. We kept trying to get the money, the federal government kept saying no. Now you can keep on asking, and keep hearing no if you want. I suggested yesterday that we

probably heard no enough times to suspect that there was not going to be a change in the answer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 106-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Question 106-13(7): Reimbursement Of Costs Of Division

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Question period is over. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, replies to Budget Address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Steen .

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Tabled Document 31-13(7): Report To Minister, Public Works And Services, April 15, 1999

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Page 284

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled, Report to the Minister of Public Works and Services , April 15, 1999. It is regarding issues raised in the Report of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Tabled Document 31-13(7): Report To Minister, Public Works And Services, April 15, 1999

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 17, Appropriation Act, 1999-2000 and committee report 1-13(7) with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

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Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

I would like to call committee of the whole to order. Before us today, we have Bill 17, Appropriation Act, 1999-2000 , and committee report 1-13(7). What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Erasmus .

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Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, we would like to begin with the Department of Finance and then follow with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs.

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Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Does the committee agr