Debates of Nov. 24th, 1993

This is page numbers 127 - 170 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Resignation From Cabinet

Organizational Review Of Economic Development And Tourism

Northern And Local Content In Transportation Contracts

Victims' Assistance Committee

Fort Providence/cambridge Bay Strategic Planning Workshops

Minister's Absence From The House

Creating Two Colleges

Dissatisfaction With Accuracy Of Information Re Iqaluit Situation

15th Anniversary Of Federation Franco-tenoise

Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

The Late Tommy Manning

Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Member's Statement Re Lack Of Education And Training For Employment

Work Of Special Committee On Health And Social Services

Young Offenders On The Land Programs

Victims Of Family Violence

Cultural Inclusion Programs

Further Return To Oral Question 55-12(4): Water/sewage Services Subsidy Program

Further Return To Oral Question 59-12(4): WCB Outstanding Appeals

Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Options Open To Minister Of Maca Re Iqaluit Situation

Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Financial Options Available Re Iqaluit Situation

Alternate Approaches To Resolving Iqaluit Situation

Actions By Department To Resolve French Association's Court Actions

Nanisivik Water And Sewage Disposal System

Alcohol And Drug Policies

Provision Of Ed&t Organizational Review Executive

Summary

User Fee Policy For Seniors

Review Of Mining Activities And Developments

Revised Directive For Alcohol And Drug Projects

Solvent Abuse Policy

Written Question 13-12(4): Hay Plan Status

Written Question 14-12(4): Iqaluit Council Dissolution Discussions

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Return To Written Question 12-12(4): Licensed Premises In Iqaluit And Yellowknife

Committee Report 5-12(4): Report On Tabled Document 145-12(3): Legislative Action Paper On The Workers' Compensation Act

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Tabled Document 11-12(4): Report From The Fort Providence/cambridge Bay Strategic Planning Workshop To Committee Of The Whole

Bill 2:

An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act

Bill 3:

An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act

Bill 4:

An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Committee Report 1-12(4): Talking And Working Together

To Adopt Recommendation 1

To Adopt Recommendation 2

To Adopt Recommendation 3 As Amended

To Adopt Recommendation 4

To Adopt Recommendation 5

To Adopt Recommendation 6

To Adopt Recommendation 7

To Adopt Recommendation 8

To Adopt Recommendation 9

To Adopt Recommendation 10

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Ng , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 127

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Lewis . Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier .

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Minister's Statement 14-12(4): Resignation From Cabinet

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 127

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker. Statements made by Mr. Allooloo that were broadcast this morning over CBC radio have placed me in a position of having to elaborate on the circumstances surrounding my decision to ask for the Member's resignation.

While I had hoped that this matter would have already been dealt with and that we could get on to other business, I believe that I must respond to the public reports.

As you know, Mr. Allooloo told this House last week that he attended a federal/provincial meeting in Saskatoon. During a meeting I had with him the next day to review a comprehensive chronology that was being prepared, Mr. Allooloo repeated his remarks and added further details.

Mr. Allooloo reported that he left Edmonton at 7:00 am on November 15 to attend the meeting in Saskatoon, and that he returned to Edmonton in time to catch a late evening flight to Yellowknife. He did not travel to Saskatoon to attend the meeting.

Mr. Allooloo told me he met with his deputy minister of Renewable Resources in Edmonton the evening before his departure to Saskatoon. He didn't. He hadn't spoken to his deputy minister since November 9.

Mr. Allooloo subsequently admitted that he had missed the flight to Saskatoon and that he didn't attend the meeting. Mr. Allooloo then stated he participated in a conference call at noon hour on November 15 with delegates to the federal/provincial meeting. There is no record of a conference call taking place.

Mr. Speaker, in a statement on Monday I explained that the House and the public must be able to rely upon the truthfulness of statements given by Members of the Executive Council. I emphasized that this is a principle that I am not prepared to compromise.

Furthermore, my decision to ask for the Member's resignation from Cabinet had nothing to do with his handling of the Iqaluit situation. It was based entirely on the misrepresentation he made to this House about the Saskatoon meeting and to myself the following day during preparation of the chronology I had promised to table in this House.

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Minister's Statement 14-12(4): Resignation From Cabinet

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 127

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 15-12(4): Organizational Review Of Economic Development And Tourism

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 127

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the introduction of the economic development strategy in 1990, there have been dramatic changes in the environment in which the Department of Economic Development and Tourism operates. In response to this changing economic environment, the department commissioned an independent consulting firm to undertake a review to identify major issues, concerns, priorities, opportunities and constraints which face the department today.

This review considered: the organizational structure of the department; the function of headquarters and the regional offices; the department's approach to meeting client needs and expectations; and, the department's funding policies to identify gaps, deficiencies and overlaps in programming.

During the review, the consultant conducted 103 interviews with regional and headquarters staff members, clients and representatives of other departments and non-GNWT agencies.

Mr. Speaker, I will be providing copies of the executive

summary of this review to the Standing Committee on Finance. I would like to take a few minutes to outline some of the highlights of the document to the House and talk about some of the changes which have already been implemented as a result of the review.

The review shows that the department was becoming a rule driven organization. It seems that administrative requirements were extremely time-consuming and overly burdensome to both staff and clients. Time was being spent serving the system rather than effectively serving clients.

The consultants also report that the department rarely measured the benefits which were generated from grants and contributions. However, it is absolutely imperative to track grants and contributions and measure the results of these expenditures in order to effectively determine whether we are achieving our goals and objectives, and whether the economic strategy and our funding programs are still relevant.

The report also revealed that the public viewed the department as being too bureaucratic, ineffective and inefficient. Too many levels of management slowed down the decision-making process, usually at the client's expense.

Also, the department was viewed as a reactive organization, spending money to solve problems rather than an organization which studies current economic circumstances and trends, and plans activities and expenditures to effectively address these circumstances.

Mr. Speaker, based on the findings of the review, it is clear that the department needs to make changes in the way it operates to respond to the unique economic circumstances in the NWT, address the needs and expectations of the small business community and recognize regional priorities for economic development initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to report that already a number of the recommendations outlined in the review have been implemented.

A participatory management structure has been introduced into the department. Regional superintendents are now included as an integral component of the senior management team. Regional superintendents are front line managers and have the knowledge and expertise to address local objectives and initiatives. By having the regional superintendents involved in policy development as well as program delivery, departmental activities will better reflect reality in the regions and communities.

At headquarters, some senior management positions have been eliminated and some staff positions realigned. Headquarters is now responsible for coordinating territorial-wide activities, developing economic sector strategies and implementation plans, and monitoring and evaluating policies and funding programs. Significant emphasis will be placed on developing new, or updating existing sectoral and regional economic strategies. These changes are in direct response to the demands from communities and this House, that the department plan expenditures according to relevant regional and sectoral economic plans.

An important accountability system for all the department's funding sources has been introduced and a more effective program evaluation system will be developed.

In order to better inform clients of the funding programs and economic development activities, the department is developing a public relations plan. More emphasis will be placed on face to face communication rather than printed promotional material which our clients have found too bureaucratic and too difficult to understand. And I don't blame them.

Although each of these changes are essential to effectively address client needs and to meet expectations, Mr. Speaker, the key element to the success of any organizational change is not only a change in the structure and functions within the organization, but the creation of new tools which will allow the organization to do a job better.

Therefore, the department is reviewing all its policies and funding assistance programs to better reflect the unique economic circumstances in the NWT and establish a program delivery and decision making authority at the regional level where it is closest to the client base.

Program approval and expenditure authority has already been delegated to the regional superintendents. Most applications for funding assistance will be considered in Yellowknife and not forwarded to Yellowknife. Therefore, clients will receive a quicker response and decisions will be more reflective of local and regional economic circumstances.

Already changes have been made to some funding programs to better address the business needs of all NWT entrepreneurs, from the very small individual arts and crafts producer or commercial renewable resource harvesters to the larger, more sophisticated businesses.

Human and financial resources will be redeployed within the department to ensure that the regions will be fully qualified to assume the new program delivery responsibilities. Staff members who are assigned new duties will be provided training so they are fully capable of performing these duties and skillfully serving clients.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, it is clear that many positive changes to the way the department operates have been implemented and more are yet to come. However, all these changes have one goal in mind, to serve the NWT business community more effectively.

In the days to come, I will speak in more detail about some of the changes made to the department's funding programs and various departmental reorganization activities. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 15-12(4): Organizational Review Of Economic Development And Tourism

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 128

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 16-12(4): Northern And Local Content In Transportation Contracts

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 128

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I believe that my position on northern and local involvement in government contracts is well known to most Members of this House. Government contracts are the major force in our economy. We must take all reasonable steps to maximize the benefits these contract dollars provide, in terms of northern and local training, employment and business opportunities.

I would like to let the Members know what the Department of Transportation has done and plans to do in this area.

For the fiscal year 1992-93, the department awarded 512 contracts valued at almost $48 million. Over 92 per cent of the dollar value went to northern contractors.

---Applause

Thank you. Of course, Mr. Speaker, the question I asked the department, is what are they doing with the other eight per cent? On review, it turns out that most of these contracts were for specialty services not available from northern businesses, like highway line painting, structural steel and the purchase of calcium and chloride. Taking these contracts into account, northern firms won 97 per cent of the contracts they bid on. In fact, only one major contract was awarded to a southern firm when northern firms had also bid. In that case, the price premium was simply too high.

Results so far for 1993-94 are similar. As of September, northern firms have been successful in gaining over 94 per cent of the $35 million in contracts. Once again, most of the remainder appears to be in the specialty areas where no northern firms are established.

Mr. Speaker, I think this record of northern involvement is a remarkable achievement for government contracting policy, for the department and, not least of all, for northern companies.

My objective is now to do better in the area of local involvement. For 1992-93, 29 per cent of our contract dollars went to local companies. The results for 1993-94 show 31 per cent. I want to see more of our contract dollars flow to local economies. I believe that local business, particularly aboriginal businesses, can do more in providing jobs, experience and training to local residents.

We have the tools to achieve this objective. We have the business incentive policy which is constantly being refined and improved. In addition, we will continue to use a variety of special contracting procedures which incorporate training programs and incentives to maximize local employment and subcontracting opportunities. As Minister, I have not been reluctant to seek Cabinet approval to negotiate contracts directly with local development companies, where appropriate.

We often pay a premium for these special approaches, but I believe this is an investment worth taking. Negotiating contracts involves an element of risk, like any business venture. There have been some failures and I am sure there will be more. Again, I believe the risk is worth taking.

I trust when the Members examine our record, they will look at the overall picture and see the many successes, along with the few that did not work well.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I hope my colleagues in the House are as pleased as I am with the contracting record of the Department of Transportation. More importantly, I hope the Members will continue to support our efforts to improve local benefits of our contracting expenditures. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 16-12(4): Northern And Local Content In Transportation Contracts

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 17-12(4): Victims' Assistance Committee

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, later today I will table the 1992-93 annual report of the victims' assistance committee, as required by the Victims of Crimes Act. This committee administers the victims' assistance fund, which generates its revenue from surcharges on fines imposed for offences under federal and territorial statutes.

Last year, the committee recommended to me, and I approved, contributions totalling $120,000 to 55 territorial organizations, community agencies and individuals for victim related activities in training, direct service delivery and public information.

Highlights of the report include contributions to non-government organizations for sending staff or volunteers to national and territorial conferences and workshops dealing with child abuse, childhood sexual abuse, family violence, traditional healing and victim assistance. Other recipients were helped to start a child care advocacy program, provide self-defence training for women, or to publish a sexual assault legal handbook.

I find it encouraging to see the victims' assistance fund being used as one of the many links to developing community-based victims initiatives. I would like to thank the committee members, Miss Thelma Tees of Yellowknife, Julia Putulik of Chesterfield Inlet and Rebecca Williams of Arctic Bay, for their services to victims of crime in the north. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 17-12(4): Victims' Assistance Committee

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier .

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Minister's Statement 18-12(4): Fort Providence/cambridge Bay Strategic Planning Workshops

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, caucus met in Fort Providence on April 4-6, 1993 and in Cambridge Bay on October 4-8, 1993. These strategic planning workshops were held to provide Members with a less formal setting to deliberate the many issues related to division of the Northwest Territories and the operation of the legislature and the Government of the Northwest Territories in meeting the challenges of the future.

Later today the caucus chairman, Mr. Fred Koe , will table a report summarizing the results of the Fort Providence and Cambridge Bay deliberations, principles of agreement and the ongoing work of caucus on these matters. The report will serve as a foundation for further work by the Legislative Assembly and the Government of the Northwest Territories and as a guide for the work of the Nunavut Implementation Commission and the western constitutional process.

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Minister's Statement 19-12(4): Minister's Absence From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I also would like to advise the House that I'll be leaving the House today at 4:00 pm to attend the western premiers' conference in Canmore, Alberta. I will be back on Friday, November 26 at approximately 11:00 am. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 19-12(4): Minister's Absence From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Minister's Statement 20-12(4): Creating Two Colleges

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 129

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in October of last year, the Financial Management Board approved the decentralization plans of Arctic College to divide into two institutions, one serving Nunavut and the other serving the western Northwest Territories. I would like to bring this Assembly up to date on the progress made on this project.

The establishment of two colleges requires considerable organizational change, which is occurring while normal business continues. The college is currently undergoing a year of transition, during which the staff are working to establish two new head offices -- one in Fort Smith and one in Iqaluit - while continuing to administer college operations in the current headquarters in Yellowknife.

The first phase of the transition has already been completed, with the transfer of responsibilities for financial administration to the new head offices in November.

Other college staff will begin work in the new head office locations during the first half of 1994. Mr. Speaker, there is still much to be done to establish two colleges in the Northwest Territories, but this work is well under way and will be completed in the coming months. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 20-12(4): Creating Two Colleges

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 130

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Dissatisfaction With Accuracy Of Information Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 130

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Members of the Ordinary Members' Caucus, I want to advise this House that Members are very concerned about the process which took place leading to the dissolution of the town of Iqaluit. The chronology of events tabled in this House yesterday, the various answers given to this House on this issue, and news reports call into question the accuracy of information we have received to date.

Our perception of the chronology of events is as follows. The previous Minister of MACA brought forth an option paper on Iqaluit to FMB on September 22. Departmental officials, who had worked on the issues and situation in Iqaluit, did not recommend the dissolution of the town council. However, Cabinet advice regarding the indication of clause 192 of the Chartered Communities Act was given. As a result of the Cabinet's advice, the town council was dissolved by the Minister.

Mr. Speaker, the decision to dissolve the town council was made on November 5 and the MLA for the Iqaluit riding was not informed until November 12, one week later. To date, Mr. Speaker, no clear explanation has yet to be given as to the reason the MLA was not informed. Press reports suggest that the Minister was told by Cabinet not to inform the MLA about the dissolution of the town council and the appointment of the public administrator.

Mr. Speaker, Members of the Ordinary Members' Caucus are very concerned and disappointed with the chronology of events tabled in this House. The Premier stated in this House that a detailed chronology would be made available. This document is vague at best.

Ordinary Members will pursue this issue in the House until the truth and the facts are obtained. This is a very serious matter, Mr. Speaker, and we hope to get to the heart of it. Thank you.

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Dissatisfaction With Accuracy Of Information Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 130

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford .

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15th Anniversary Of Federation Franco-tenoise

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 130

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

---Laughter

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15th Anniversary Of Federation Franco-tenoise

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 130

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Whitford .

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15th Anniversary Of Federation Franco-tenoise

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 130

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Merci, Monsieur President. "These, however, do not quite accurately reflect the important role that the FFT has played in the ever-changing and growing society of the Northwest Territories. FFT has done much more than just lobby the government for services and resources. It has cooperated with the Government of the Northwest Territories in implementing its French language programs. More than that, the FFT has been the catalyst for many francophones in other NWT communities.

Over the years, and thanks to the efforts of the FFT and its members, the NWT can pride itself with having a French language newspaper, L'Aquilon, community theatres and also a French school and day care. During the past 15 years, much has been done to make Francophone language and culture a positive presence in the NWT. The north will change over the next decade. Nunavut, for example, is one of the major upcoming positive changes. And the Francophone community will also change to reflect a new northern reality and the changing needs of the francophones it represents.

Regardless of the choices we make, it is hoped that the FFT

will continue its

part in one of the most unique, multi-lingual societies in Canada. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the energy and commitment demonstrated by the members of the FFT in the past 15 years. (Translation) Good luck for another successful year. Thank you."

---Applause

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15th Anniversary Of Federation Franco-tenoise

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Whitford . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I was going to make a statement on aboriginal policing, but the information that I gave to research didn't reflect what I was going to say. So I will do one on trucking.

Today I wish to speak on some of the regulations that affect truckers operating on highways in the Northwest Territories. I believe some of these regulations do not deal realistically with operating conditions found in the Northwest Territories during its short construction season. For example, truckers who are working on a construction project are only allowed to work 70 hours per week before they must take a day off. Persons working as grader or bulldozer operators can work 12 hours per day, seven days a week for a total of 84 hours without taking a break or taking a day off. They are working on the highway. They are working for the same contractor.

In Alberta, truckers can work up to 13 hours per day, seven days a week if they have the right exemption from the Alberta Labour Board. Why can't we have something like that, except that we limit it to vehicles working on construction projects only? In the winter-time the government has made allowance for truck drivers involved in winter road hauls because of the short season. Why can't we do the same for truck drivers involved in the equally short construction season?

Now, you might say that the truckers have to be restricted in the amount of hours they work in the interest of highway safety. But, I submit that we are not dealing with long-haul drivers who need to be legislated, as to how much they work, to keep the road safe for all of us. We are dealing with a group of drivers who drive from the gravel pile to the job site, a distance that is rarely more than ten miles away. They are already in the construction zone. People should be watching for them.

I think with a little bit of common sense, we can deal with the problem of how many hours a truck driver can work in the Northwest Territories.

Another thing about the regulations that govern truck drivers in the Northwest Territories...

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Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Gargan , your allotted time has elapsed.

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Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I would like unanimous consent to continue my statement.

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Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Another thing about the regulations that govern truckers in the Northwest Territories -- that doesn't make much sense -- are the rules that govern running overweight. I can see obtaining an overweight certificate to run a heavy load from Hay River to Yellowknife. But, to have to obtain a certificate to run a load of gravel ten miles down the road is ridiculous, especially when the gravel truck operator is working on a government project.

Nine times out of ten, the roads the gravel truck drivers are driving over are going to be reconstructed that summer anyway. There is no way that a trucker can do any permanent harm. I think that if the Department of Transportation engineers running the job concur that truckers should be allowed to run overweight in a construction zone, they should be allowed to do so. This Member's statement will serve as formal notice that I intend to address these problems to the satisfaction of myself and the truckers. Mahsi cho.

---Applause.

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Member's Statement Re Truckers Operating On Highways

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Gargan . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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The Late Tommy Manning

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am bearing sad news in my statement. Recently a person passed away due to illness. He was in his prime. His name was Tommy Manning. I'm not trying to remind his relatives of his death, but Tommy Manning was well-known within the NWT. He worked in the territories for a long time. He began his employment with the Hudson's Bay Company, now known as Northern Stores, many years ago. We send our condolences to his family and to his children, and especially to Joe Arlooktoo, his younger brother, who was a previous Member of the Legislative Assembly.

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The Late Tommy Manning

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat . I would like to take this opportunity to welcome to the Legislative Assembly delegates attending the Keeping the Circle Strong in Northern Communities conference. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 131

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, community people and leaders of the Legislative Assembly are all aware of the problems that exist with substance abuse. I just want to say something about the community workers who

deal with this issue. It is a very frustrating problem. I'm told there are many problems that exist in dealing in this field. One of the frustrating problems that front line workers have is dealing with the Department of Social Services and their staff at the headquarters level.

It has to do with the policy that they follow in the field of alcohol and drugs. I am told that the Department of Social Services is following recommendations that were made at a conference in Fort Churchill, Manitoba in 1984. This is what their policy in dealing with alcohol and drugs is based on.

Since that time, Mr. Speaker, many people in the communities of the north have taken up sobriety and are working in the field of healing their communities and in alcohol and drug awareness. Since that time, there have been many conferences on alcohol and drugs and related problems. A lot of important discussions have taken place and a lot of recommendations have been made about how best to deal with these problems.

The community people that work in this field are basing their recommendations on real experiences at the community level and I feel they are not being listened to by the department. One of the general questions I have is why have these conferences when their directions and recommendations are not taken seriously by officials in the Department of Social Services?

For example, last March when this House was still in the former building, there was a conference during session which I attended. I recall that many important recommendations on alcohol and drug treatment were made at that time. Since that time, a number of other workshops have taken place and again, recommendations have been made. Now, this week, there is another conference that was announced by the Minister...

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Your allotted time has elapsed, Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Please stand up, Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you. Now this week there is another drug and alcohol conference, as announced by the Honourable Rebecca Mike , called Keeping the Circle Strong in Northern Communities conference. All Members here support this and have agreed to keep the circle strong in our communities, Mr. Speaker. To make it even stronger, people who work on the front lines in this area draw from the experience and the recommendations that are made to try to better deal with the very real and serious problems in our communities.

However, the Members are concerned that our people in the field are getting frustrated with the lack of action on the recommendations they have made at these conferences. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Member's Statement Re Concerns Of Alcohol And Drug Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ng .

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Member's Statement Re Lack Of Education And Training For Employment

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of us recognize the importance of human resources as our most valuable asset. Generally, the NWT has a very young, undereducated, undertrained workforce. A small majority of us are fortunate to have employment with municipal or territorial governments, local housing associations or other government funded and sponsored organizations, or the private sector.

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately most of our residents do not have the education or training necessary to enter into the technical or senior management level positions that are currently filled from outside our communities, our regions and our territory.

Although we appreciate individuals relocating to the NWT when they fill the available employment opportunities, we should be filling these positions from our own available human resource pool. Mr. Speaker, there will be many more employment opportunities available with the future development of mines and the establishment of two new territories in 1999. There are also hundreds of jobs that turn over within our current government. Our government must address the education and training needs of our existing and future workforce as its first priority. We must be prepared, in the immediate future, to fill a majority of employment opportunities from our own residents.

Mr. Speaker, we must invest the time and resources today in supporting our residents to acquire the education and training they need to participate in our northern economy in the future. Thank you.

---Applause

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Member's Statement Re Lack Of Education And Training For Employment

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Ng . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe .

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Work Of Special Committee On Health And Social Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 132

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. For the past year and a half, I've been a Member of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. As a Member, I've had the privilege and opportunity to once again visit parts of our wonderful Northwest Territories.

I wish to thank all Members of the committee with whom I have travelled and worked, and all the staff who helped arrange our meetings, conferences and travel. I also wish to thank all the people with whom I've met and talked, and appreciate the trust which they have demonstrated in us and in our system to make changes.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to pass on some of my thoughts and impressions about our visits and meetings across the north. We have such a wonderful, beautiful, diverse country and the people who live in the various regions all identify with and appreciate where they live. However, they don't all live as happily and content as we are sometimes lead to believe.

The special report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services which was tabled last week, identifies most of the issues and concerns raised by the people with whom we met. I know it doesn't cover every issue, but I am satisfied that the issues and recommendations, if accepted and implemented, will have some far-reaching and long lasting impacts on the quality of life of our residents.

Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of hurt and a lot of pain out there. People are now beginning to cry out and reach for help. They rely heavily, and in most cases too much so, on government programs and services. Much of our society is totally dependent on government. I believe it is up to this Assembly, with the responsibilities and authority that it carries, to take a good, hard look at what is recommended by the people of the north, and begin immediately to start resolving the issues. One of the first ways of doing this is to begin to give the people in the communities and regions the authority and tools to take over the governing of their own lives. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Work Of Special Committee On Health And Social Services

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 133

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Koe . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson .

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Young Offenders On The Land Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 133

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members will know that I've been a strong advocate of helping young offenders to gain knowledge of hunting and survival outdoors, and to regain pride and self-esteem through programs on the land. I believe incarceration in institutions in town should be avoided wherever possible, especially for young aboriginal people who are first offenders. I believe many of our elders are able and willing to look after young people in trouble.

At the last session, I expressed my strong support for the proposal of Atamie Family Enterprises to revive the highly successful Mingotuq outpost camp young offenders' proposal at Tonqait on the shores of Frobisher Bay. I rise today to commend the Minister of Justice and his staff, particularly Nora Sanders, Mary Lou Sutton-Fennel and Bob Cooke, for having had the determination to reconfigure existing institutional programs and funds to allow the on the land program to be revived and offered as an option to young offenders from Iqaluit and the Baffin region.

I thank the Minister for believing in the capability of Lucassie and Inookie to offer a meaningful program based on their vast knowledge of the land and Inuit tradition. The program began operations in September. It is running well. I hope it will continue and that it will be an inspiration to the Minister of Justice , his department and other communities to do the same elsewhere. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

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Young Offenders On The Land Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 133

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Patterson . Item 3, Members' statements.

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Victims Of Family Violence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 133

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that what I have to say has to be very carefully worded, since it covers a subject which is of tremendous political sensitivity in our communities. I agree that the major issues in many of our communities over the last several years, Mr. Speaker, have been on family violence. It has been covered by one of the reports tabled by Mr. Kakfwi yesterday. It concerns women and children as victims of violence. I agree that violence against women and children in our society is a symptom of the breakdown of many of our traditional family values.

Over the past six years, however, I have received much information expressing concern about two other groups of very vulnerable people in our society. I refer to our senior citizens and to our disabled people. These groups are not always identified as victims of violence. But I am pleased, in the case of our seniors, that they are identified in our Special Committee on Health and Social Services report as being victims of violence. I fully appreciate that this is going to be given some exposure in the debates in this House.

It is my hope that when witnesses are called to comment on the issue of family violence in committee of the whole, that the Minister will invite representatives of disabled people and senior citizens to help us more fully understand the dimensions of family violence. When we discuss the whole issue of zero tolerance towards violence, we will come up with something that is very definite and concrete so we can understand how we intend to implement such a policy.

For example, in this House, if I am violent the Speaker will make sure that the Sergeant-at-Arms will take me out of this place. I will not be able to sit here. That is an example of something definite and concrete. So I am hoping that when we get to this issue, we will nail down what it is we can do to find some resolution to the problem of family violence.

---Applause

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Victims Of Family Violence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 133

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Lewis . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Cultural Inclusion Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 133

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak about an issue which I have raised in this House a number of times. This concern relates to the cultural inclusion programs in the schools. This is one of the major concerns raised by the people of my riding over the past two years. The general feeling is we are trying to push our children through a system, which conflicts in many ways with our own cultural beliefs. The manner in which our culture is trying to be taught to our children is not sufficient. Our traditional life-style or culture was never taught inside buildings, let alone classrooms.

They were taught on site, which means they were taught on the land. The basic idea behind this is to remove the culture inclusion program from the schools and transfer them to local ethnic committees.

This move will give back to the aboriginal peoples the ability to teach their children their traditional lifestyle. There are many occasions where young people do not have anything to fall back on when they have exhausted their imported skills. Mr. Speaker, many young people learn their traditional skills in an environment which is not conducive to their culture, therefore they try to fall back on their own culture by trying out their abilities on the land.

However, because their knowledge of the land has been limited to what they learned inside buildings, they are not able to succeed. When young people go out on the land, the parents end up worried about their hunters, rather than looking forward to welcomed meat -- which by the way, supplements much of their social assistance.

I know that the Department of Education has many concerns about the ability to insure students who are not within their realm. However, I know the Minister responsible has encountered a number of very complex problems and has been able to resolve them. I believe he would be able to find a way around this issue. There has to be a way around this issue. There are a number of programs currently run by organizations such as the YWCA, Boy Scouts of Canada and Royal Canadian Army Cadet Corps which are run on the land.

I also know that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs would appreciate knowing that they will have less to expend on searches.

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Cultural Inclusion Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 134

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Arngna'naaq , your allotted time has elapsed.

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Cultural Inclusion Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 134

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement.

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Cultural Inclusion Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 134

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Cultural Inclusion Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 134

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, colleagues and Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have stated that if an organization were to take on this responsibility, students in different classes would be able to go to a learning camp at different times of the year. For example, older students would go when it is colder and younger students would go early in the school year or late in the year when the weather is warmer. The other effect this will have is that it will leave schools more time to teach the southern curriculum.

I give this, once again, to the Minister for his consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Cultural Inclusion Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 134

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq . Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Oral Question 55-12(4): Water/sewage Services Subsidy Program

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 134

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two returns. I have a return to an oral question made by my colleague, Mr. Antoine , yesterday, regarding the water/sewage service subsidy program in the village of Fort Simpson. The Executive Council has approved amendments to the water/sewage services subsidy policy which will extend the coverage of the policy to all towns and villages, including the village of Fort Simpson, effective April 1, 1994.

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Further Return To Oral Question 59-12(4): WCB Outstanding Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 134

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Similarly, there are no time frames imposed on injured workers, dependents or employers in which to file an appeal. The delays in the appeals tribunal hearing cases is regrettable. However, they do not violate the provisions of the Workers' Compensation Act, the rules of the court, or the charter. Nevertheless, the board and the appeals tribunal are concerned about the length of time taken to hear appeals. In an effort to streamline the process, a proposal from the appeals tribunal chairman, Mr. Jim Bourque, is before the board of directors at their meeting this week.

This proposal would allow the appeals tribunal to sit full time for a six month period, in an effort to resolve the backlog of appeals. Thank you.

---Applause

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Further Return To Oral Question 59-12(4): WCB Outstanding Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 134

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 19-12(4): Memorandum Of Understanding

Further Return To Oral Question 59-12(4): WCB Outstanding Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 134

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is the return to a question asked by Mr. Koe on November 9, 1993. It concerns a memorandum of understanding. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health is collaborating with health and hospital boards and the

Northwest Territories Health Care Association (NWTHCA) on the development of the memorandum of understanding (MOU). A joint steering committee consisting of representatives from the boards, NWTHCA, and the department is guiding the process.

Western Health Planning Associates were awarded the contract in May, 1993. The consultants have met with key stakeholders from the health and hospital boards and the department. Background materials and a framework for the draft MOU have been developed by the steering committee. These consist of a

preamble, explanatory notes, a core agreement, appendices relating to specific board agreements, references to legislation and other details.

The steering committee will meet in December 1993, to review progress. The draft MOU is scheduled for completion January 31, 1994, and will be discussed at a meeting between myself, the board chairpersons and the department in January.

I would be pleased to provide the honourable Member with additional information as it becomes available. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 19-12(4): Memorandum Of Understanding

Further Return To Oral Question 59-12(4): WCB Outstanding Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in reviewing the unedited Hansard on Thursday, November 18, 1993 and subsequent Hansards up to this date, it was stated in this House last week that -- on the advice of Cabinet -- the former Minister of MACA was to close the town of Iqaluit down. My question is to the Premier . Can the Premier advise this House why was it not part of the Cabinet's advice to inform the local MLA prior to the action taken? Thank you.

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Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the decision to take the action that the previous Minister took was the previous Minister's decision. The Cabinet was not involved with the decision, as a decision. We were fully aware of the course the Minister was taking. The Minister made the decision. We did not make a subsequent decision at Cabinet. We were informed of the course that the Minister was taking. Thank you.

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Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to quote the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea from page 45 of the unedited Hansard of Thursday, November 18. Her answer was, "Mr. Speaker, the decision and the option chosen was by the Minister of MACA who sought the advice of Cabinet." I recognize that the former Minister of MACA made the decision to close the town of Iqaluit, but it was upon the advice of Cabinet, according to the unedited Hansards.

Therefore, I would like to ask the Premier why was it not part of the advice -- that she stated in the House, according to the unedited Hansard -- to tell the local MLA about such a significant decision made by one of her Ministers? Why was it not part of that advice when they were discussing this issue? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, although the Minister may have sought the advice of Cabinet, the Minister made the decision on the course of action he wished to take. It was taken for granted that the Minister would inform the MLA or the people who are involved with the action. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, supplementary Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the decision was significant and no doubt it may have been that the Cabinet and the Premier took it for granted that this decision would be relayed to the local MLAs. However, we now know the local MLA was not aware of the decision until a week later and it appears there must have been a severe communication breakdown somewhere in the process. So, I would like to ask the Premier , on significant decisions to close down a town, is there not a process in her Cabinet to ensure local MLAs are advised of such decisions. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, to our knowledge the Minister was going to inform the MLA. We admit that there was a communication breakdown and that the MLA was not informed probably soon enough and we apologize for that, Mr. Speaker. We acknowledge that there was a communication breakdown, and both the former Minister and myself apologize. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 135

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I want Members to be aware and especially you, Mr. Speaker, that I know the rules of this House do not allow us to

ask for discussion which took place in Cabinet meetings, but I'd like to ask the Premier , in addition to the advice of Cabinet to close down a town, was it also the advice of Cabinet not to inform this MLA for Iqaluit. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

(Microphone turned off)

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Further Return To Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing Mla Re Iqaluit Situation

Question 69-12(4): Cabinet's Direction On Informing MLA Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, with reference to the decision to dissolve the council of the town of Iqaluit, my question is to the Premier . Mr. Speaker, is it true that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs advised against dissolving the council of the town of Iqaluit? Thank you.

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Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the Minister informed us of the decision he had made and the best course of action to take, or he was taking. The other options, or if there were options at the time, we were advised of the decision the Minister took. Thank you.

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Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I'm not referring to advice given by the Minister. This was a grave matter, I presume the Premier would agree. A matter not to be taken lightly, especially the week before an Assembly session and a Cabinet review. I'd like to ask the Premier again, did the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and the deputy minister -- who is ultimately accountable to the Premier -- advise against the option of dissolving the council of the town of Iqaluit?

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, at the time, the Minister advised of the best course of action he thought should be taken. The Minister, upon his familiarity with the subject over a number of years, took that course of action. The other options were disregarded because that option was the desired option and what the Minister felt was the appropriate option at this time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I'm sure the Premier is aware that in the November 19 issue of Nunatsiaq News, the deputy minister of MACA -- who was appointed by the Premier and is ultimately accountable to the Premier -- is quoted as saying that his department had nothing to do with Cabinet's decision. The action Cabinet took was a "surprise" to him and that "we didn't recommend it." Is this an accurate description of the advice given by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs who had been working intensively on this issue, according to the chronology, since 1987, and certainly intensively in recent months.

Is this the advice given by the Department of Municipal Affairs on this issue, not to dissolve the council? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I'd like to remind Members that Ministers can't be expected to confirm or deny the validity of newspaper articles. Having said that, Madam Premier , if you like to respond to the question.

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Further Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I was just going to say the same thing. I can't confirm or express an opinion on a newspaper article. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Your final supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, then my question to the Premier is, on such an important matter -- the dissolution of the second largest municipality in the Northwest Territories -- in considering the matter and in considering how to advise the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs who the Premier has already said sought the advice of Cabinet, did the Cabinet seek advice, on such an important matter, from the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs who have been intensely involved with this issue in making their decision? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the Minister represented the department. The Minister is in charge of the department and the Minister advised us the course of action he felt -- in the best of his ability in dealing with the issue over a long period of time -- he would take. That was the advice, or not even the advice, but that is what he indicated or he said was the direction he was going to take. The Minister is responsible and I know he was dealing with this issue for a long period of time. I believe at some point in time we have to take what the Minister feels is the best course of action.

The Minister represented the situation over a period of time, and at the time he told us what he was going to do. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Question 70-12(4): Dm's And Department's Advice On Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 136

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Zoe .

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Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that the first action that the administrator who was appointed to the town of Iqaluit was to dismiss the current SAO, or senior administrative officer. Mr. Speaker, this action suggests that the administrator is perceived to have been the problem. My question to the Minister, or to the Premier , or to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs is, if the SAO was the problem why weren't efforts made to have the SAO replaced by council as a condition of the approval of the debenture refinancing proposal?

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Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Return To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, we acknowledge there was a problem, and I believe the chronology would show as well, there were difficulties that we have had with the administrative arrangements of the town of Iqaluit. The Minister responsible at that time was also taking into consideration that problem when he made his decision. Thank you.

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Return To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I realize the former Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs is not in the House, but it has always been the practice of MACA to work with elected officials to take every possible step to solve problems with municipalities even before terminating an elected official. I am wondering why that option wasn't taken by the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs.

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Supplementary To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the whole issue of the financial problem of Iqaluit has been going on since 1987. The Minister responsible felt he had taken every opportunity with his department to resolve the situation, other than the final action he took. I believe the work that has been done with the department can show there was a lot of effort to try to help the community to resolve those issues. I believe what may have transpired...I trusted the Minister, because of the seriousness of the situation, that all the avenues were exhausted. This is why the past Minister decided to take that action. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, with the agreement of the mayor and town council, wouldn't it have been possible to have the public administrator appointed, replacing the SAO, but at the same time preserving the elected mayor and council? Wouldn't you

agree that would have been one of the options available to the previous Minister?

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Supplementary To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I would assume that might have been one of the options. But my understanding is that all the areas of trying to resolve the problem were taken over a number of years. The Minister probably looked at other options, but he decided that the situation was such that he should remove the council. Mr. Speaker, I would assume the Minister would have looked at all the options over a number of years before taking this final course of action.

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Further Return To Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Question 71-12(4): Reason For Iqaluit Sao Being Replaced

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It appears the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs would like an opportunity to get involved, so I would like to address this question to him. Mr. Speaker, I have heard from the NWT Association of Municipalities that there is concern among many of their members that what happened in Iqaluit could happen in other communities. As a former president of that association, I am sympathetic to their concerns. Particularly, I would like to ask the Minister about the process being followed by the department, which might lead to this kind of decision.

Specifically, what kinds of warning signs are municipalities given that this government is considering dissolution of a local government?

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Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 137

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, this decision is made as a last resort, as everyone knows. It comes about after significant discussions. In the Iqaluit situation -- if I can add to the issue from what I have read in the short time I have had this portfolio, 24 hours -- there were significant discussions between the department and the municipality, its elected council and its SAO. Issues were raised with respect to the financial situation on a number of occasions. The department asked them to take corrective action. It is my understanding that corrective action wasn't taken on a number of occasions.

So it is not like this came out of the blue. There were significant discussions from when Mr. Patterson was the previous Minister of MACA. There were discussions going on in 1987, 1988, 1989 and 1990. No one likes to take the action that has been taken. We had no choice. This situation has cost this government a significant amount of money. I don't know what direction the department is going to take. The fact of the matter is we are in a position where we have to take the appropriate action that is deemed necessary to protect the interest of everyone in the Northwest Territories. That is what is being done here.

It is certainly not the demise of democracy.

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Return To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is interesting that the Minister does say, "We had no choice." I am not sure if he was speaking royally or for the Cabinet.

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

John Todd

Keewatin Central

(Microphone turned off)

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

I think the important thing is other municipalities want to know that there is a process. As we recently saw, there is significant power within the government which can be exercised very quickly. Surely it would be of benefit for all concerned to have a better understanding of how and when the government might take this sort of action to dissolve a council. Specifically, what we need is a policy. Will the Minister consider preparing a policy that would set up the process and guidelines to be followed by government officials, when proposing to take action with respect to the removal of a municipal council and/or their administration?

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Again, I say to the honourable Member, I have had this portfolio for 24 hours, I will take his question...

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

Point Of Order

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

With respect to my point of order, the Member is indicating to this House that he has had this portfolio for the past 24 hours. I believe he has been the Minister of MACA for 48 hours. Thank you.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

It is not a point of order, but thank you for that information, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I was thinking, Mr. Speaker, of 24 waking hours.

---Laughter

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Further Return To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolutions Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I think it is an important point that Mr. Dent has raised. It obviously has ramifications across the territories and no one is denying the seriousness of the issue. I will take his question under consideration and talk to the department. If there is not a process in place, we will attempt to bring back an answer to his question in the next two days. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolutions Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I take it that the Minister didn't take my question as notice because he didn't use those words. I have a supplementary for the same Minister. Municipalities are unaware of any clear policy within the department which sets out how this process might take place, so that is one thing they do want to see. I am pleased to hear that he will take a look at it.

One other thing I would like to ask the Minister to consider is, will he consider recommending to his department to proceed with amendments to the legislation which would allow for a process of mediation before a dissolution of a council or administration could take place?

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolutions Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I will consider it. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolutions Of Municipalities

Question 72-12(4): Nwtam Concerns Re Dissolution Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 73-12(4): Options Open To Minister Of Maca Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From my examination of the chronology of events related to the dismissal of the mayor and council in Iqaluit, it seems as if there was considerable discussion in March and there was an exchange again in April. On both of these occasions the local MLA was informed. He was given letters to explain exactly what was going on.

This eventually led to a decision time. On September 22, a submission was made to the Financial Management Board to refinance the Iqaluit land development debentures. My question to the Minister of MACA is what options -- given the fact that the refinancing was turned down for this debenture -- did the Minister of MACA have?

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Question 73-12(4): Options Open To Minister Of Maca Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Question 73-12(4): Options Open To Minister Of Maca Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I don't particularly like this, Mr. Speaker, but I would have to take that question as notice. Sorry.

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Question 73-12(4): Options Open To Minister Of Maca Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Ng .

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Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier . According to the information we have been provided with, in the chronology of events, the action of dissolving the town council in Iqaluit could have actually happened prior to December 31, because that was when the debenture was due for payment. Why was the situation so drastic that Cabinet had to do this prior to the sitting of this House?

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Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Return To Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 138

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the direction the Minister took was the direction he felt was necessary. Exactly

why the timing was what it was...I would like to inform the Members of the Legislative Assembly that the chronology was put together at my request by the former Minister and his staff, because of the concerns around this issue. So, in terms of how and when and why it didn't happen before December 31, sometimes we are not in control of the timing. I know that, certainly, with the financial state of the community, there was some urgency pressed upon us to deal with that.

I suppose we could put off these decisions until a more politically appropriate time, after the session or after the mid term review, but at the time that the Minister made the decision, he felt it was imperative that we deal with it. It was important enough, so he did so. Thank you.

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Return To Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Ng .

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Supplementary To Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Situation

Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Madam Premier , was there not ample opportunity to brief the MLA prior to the decision being made, or to work with the municipal council in trying to rectify the problem before that action had to be taken?

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Supplementary To Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Situation

Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Further Return To Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Situation

Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that over a number of years and up to that time, the department and the Minister had spent a great deal of time working with the council trying to resolve the issue. As I have said before, we apologize. Yes, we could have informed the Member. We have apologized for that and we acknowledge that we could have communicated a lot sooner. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Situation

Question 74-12(4): Reason For Timing On Iqaluit Decision

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 75-12(4): Financial Options Available Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that Mr. Todd has only been in his job for 48 hours, so I would like to ask the Chairman of the Financial Management Board , when Mr. Allooloo was turned down on his submission to refinance the Iqaluit land development debenture on September 22, what options did he have? This debenture had to be refinanced by December 31, of this year.

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Question 75-12(4): Financial Options Available Re Iqaluit Situation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 139

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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