Debates of Feb. 16th, 1995

This is page numbers 115 - 148 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Canada's First Ambassador For Circumpolar Affairs

Portfolio Responsibilities

Justice Ministers' Meeting

The A Y Jackson Painting Collection

Birthing Centre In Taloyoak

Violence And The Justice System

Absence From The House

Appointment Of Commissioner Helen Maksagak

Importance Of Mlas' Liaison With Communities

Student Residences

Appointment Of Ambassador Mary Simon

Cutback Of Glos In Communities

Treatment Of Jurors

Methods Of Awarding GNWT Tenders

Appointment Of Ambassador Mary Simon

Recognition Of Long-term Health Care Employees

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Northerners' Concerns Reflected In Proposed Firearms Legislation

NWT Residents' Concerns Re Proposed Firearms Legislation

Annual Registration Fees Under Proposed Firearms Legislation

Exemptions To Registration Fees In Firearms Legislation

Public Hearings On Proposed Firearms Legislation In Nwt

Impact Of Proposed Firearms Legislation On Sport Hunters And Outfitters

Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

New Student Residence Funding Formula

Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Staffing In Student Residence

Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Glo Positions In Communities

Construction Of Air Terminal In Cape Dorset

Status Of Grades In Proposed Funding Formula

Takeover Of Arctic A Airports

Request For High School In Gjoa Haven

Glo Positions In Communities

Location Of Nwtam Annual Meeting

Funding Shortage For Recreational Facilities In Kitikmeot

Authority For Holding Plebiscite Re Liquor Restrictions

Item 10: Petitions

Committee Report 2-12(7): Report On The Legislative Action Paper On The Office Of The Ombudsman For The Northwest Territories

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 3:

An Act To Amend The Judicature Act

Bill 5:

An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act

Bill 7:

An Act To Amend The Co-operative Associations Act

To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 7

To Amend Bill 7

Bill 2:

An Act To Amend The Apprenticeship And Trade Certification Act

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arvaluk , Mr. Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Hon. Samuel Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Hon. Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 115

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 14-12(7): Canada's First Ambassador For Circumpolar Affairs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 115

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Canada's first ambassador for circumpolar affairs, Mary Simon, is visiting Yellowknife today and tomorrow, the 16th and 17th of this month.

Ambassador Simon is well-known to Members of this Assembly for her work as past-president of the Inuit Circumpolar Conference and for her role over the past decade in national constitutional negotiations.

For several years, this government has supported the call for an ambassador for circumpolar affairs as a means of elevating and strengthening Canada's Arctic diplomacy. We had also stressed the importance of appointing a northerner to this post. Therefore, we were extremely pleased when Ms. Simon was appointed by Foreign Affairs Minister, Andre Ouellet, in October 1994.

Ambassador Simon will ensure that the federal government has a northern circumpolar perspective in the development and conduct of Canada's foreign policy. She is to be commended for moving quickly to consult with northern aboriginal peoples and governments which have a background in circumpolar affairs.

Until recently, Canada's foreign policy interests in the Arctic region were centred around Canadian sovereignty and strategic concerns. However, as the recently-released federal government statement on foreign policy states: "The focus in the Canadian Arctic is increasingly on non-traditional security threats. Canada's recent appointment of an ambassador for circumpolar affairs will increase the focus on such threats."

The new concerns include such matters as threats to the environment with the resulting costs for traditional ways of life of aboriginal peoples.

One of the purposes of Ambassador Simon's visit to Yellowknife this week is to advise this government and the

Members of this Assembly about her duties and mandate as Canada's circumpolar ambassador.

In addition, she will be updating us on a Canadian foreign policy objective which is very important for this region; namely, the establishment of an "Arctic Council." The Arctic Council would be comprised of eight Arctic governments: Canada, the United States, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Russia and Sweden; and would provide a forum for promoting international cooperation and for addressing the full range of Arctic issues.

The Government of the Northwest Territories has also supported the creation of an Arctic council which would include the participation of aboriginal peoples.

The United States has not yet agreed to join the Arctic council initiative. Their willingness to participate is seen as essential by most of the other circumpolar nations. Ambassador Simon has been to Washington and Alaska and will be updating us on her discussions with them on this and other issues.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, the ambassador's visit will provide this government and this Assembly with an opportunity to discuss with her our circumpolar concerns and priorities. I want to take this opportunity, again, to congratulate Mary Simon on her appointment to this important post, and to express our willingness to work with her over the next few days and in the coming months and years. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 14-12(7): Canada's First Ambassador For Circumpolar Affairs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 115

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . I also would like to recognize Mary Simon, Canada's first ambassador to circumpolar affairs, in the Speaker's gallery.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Minister's Statement 15-12(7): Portfolio Responsibilities

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 115

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

I wish to advise the Members that the Honourable Kelvin Ng will be responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, effective today. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 15-12(7): Portfolio Responsibilities

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 115

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Our congratulations, Mr. Ng . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 16-12(7): Justice Ministers' Meeting

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 116

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last month, in January, I attended a meeting of Ministers of Justice in Victoria, British Columbia. We were joined on the last day of that three-day meeting by Ministers of Health from a number of provinces to address issues of common interest, particularly the challenge of finding solutions for dealing with high-risk and violent offenders who we feel are likely to offend again upon being released from prison.

The agenda for the meetings was extremely ambitious, covering a wide range of areas in the reform of justice, both in the criminal law and the civil law. There were three agenda items which I want to report on, because of their significance to Members and the people of the north: firearms control, the intoxication defence and the Young Offenders Act.

Ministers discussed the proposed amendments to the Criminal Code in the area of gun control. The Ministers of Justice from Saskatchewan, Alberta, the Yukon and the Northwest Territories have identified a common position with respect to universal registration of all firearms. We are opposed to universal registration and have expressed our opposition on numerous occasions to Minister Rock. We believe it is an unwarranted intrusion into the lives of people who are not criminals, and there is no evidence that it will in fact reduce crime with firearms. The cost, we believe, cannot be justified at a time when other more worthwhile programs are being cut.

I also expressed that there will inevitably be challenges from aboriginal people on the basis that universal registration does not meet the requirements of the Sparrow decision of the Supreme Court.

The four western jurisdictions took the position that the proposed regime be introduced on a pilot basis in those jurisdictions which support universal registration. We received some support for that approach, but not from the federal government, which is determined to proceed with the proposed changes as they were. As you know, legislation was tabled in the House of Commons on the 14th of this month. The Northwest Territories, along with these other jurisdictions, will continue to press for changes to ensure that they do not infringe on the rights and the lifestyles of all northerners.

Last fall, the northern public reacted with horror at the decision of the Supreme Court in the Daviault case, where the court ruled that extreme drunkenness approaching automatism or insanity can be a defence to crimes of violence; in that case, sexual assault. The federal government promptly undertook a consultation and review to determine legislative options for dealing with this unfortunate result.

In Victoria, I informed my colleagues that we had the highest rate of sexual assault in the country, and that these assaults were often committed in a state of extreme drunkenness. The decision of the Supreme Court has left women feeling unsafe. The only option is to legislate a removal of extreme drunkenness as a defence to violent crimes. All jurisdictions supported this position, and I was also encouraged by the response of Minister Rock. I am optimistic that the federal government will take appropriate action to address the issue in the current session of Parliament.

All jurisdictions, including the Northwest Territories, feel that changes are needed to the Young Offenders Act, but we, like other jurisdictions, feel that amendments to the act should not be made until a thorough review has been conducted through the Parliamentary Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and the Federal/Provincial/Territorial Task Force on Young Offenders.

Unfortunately, the federal government is determined to proceed with the current amendments in Bill C-37, against our better advice, and the advice of the vast majority of intervenors in the hearings on those amendments. We have a number of concerns on the proposed amendments and have expressed those to the federal government. The NWT is represented on the federal/provincial/territorial task force which is undertaking a thorough review of the young offender system, including the act, where we continue to pursue our concerns.

The meeting that we had was lively, because the pace of legal reform these days is hectic compared to the more tranquil past. I welcome the commitment for reform, but it will inevitably bring the federal government into conflict with provincial and territorial jurisdictions if the federal government is excessively hasty in proposing changes because of the political pressures of the day. This, I believe, is the case with the proposed firearms legislation. On the other hand, we cannot move too quickly to address the effects of the drunkenness defence brought about by the Supreme Court decision. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 16-12(7): Justice Ministers' Meeting

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 116

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford .

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The A Y Jackson Painting Collection

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and please allow me to offer my congratulations to Mr. Ng on his appointment to the Cabinet. I, like my colleagues, wish him well and look forward to working with him in whatever portfolios he receives. He has only got one now, but we will look forward to working with the others as he gets them.

Mr. Speaker, growing up in Fort Smith and attending the public schools there, I recall the very large prints of the rugged Canadian landscapes painted by the Group of Seven Canadian artists dominating our walls. Included among those prints were some of the works of A Y Jackson. Mr. Speaker, Members will know that Jackson spent considerable time as a painter in the Northwest Territories, painting such scenes as the Great Slave Lake countryside, the village of Dettah, the young city of Yellowknife, CMNS and Giant Mines, as they were then; and, while at Great Bear Lake, the Eldorado Mine at Point Radium, the countryside around Port Radium, Great Bear Lake and landscapes.

A Y Jackson's paintings have captured forever the beauty, strength, colour and ruggedness of the northern landscapes for future generations. While most of his paintings were kept by the Department of Resources and Development and in the Eldorado collection, a few ended up in private collections. In recent years, our government has been reacquiring these valuable collections, bit by bit. In 1988, most were returned to the north to be housed until a suitable gallery could be found. More recently, they were reunited with the Eldorado collection of some 90 pieces.

In late January, the Commissioner most generously agreed to display them in our Caucus room; a room very well suited and much visited by the public. Mr. Speaker, I sincerely hope that now that we have this permanent Assembly building, the A Y Jackson collection will also have a permanent home here in the place of the people, so that the public can also enjoy this northern asset. I believe this was the intention of the patrons of the collection and I would like to thank the Commissioner for her forethought and generosity in returning the A Y Jackson works to the people of the north. Thank you.

---Applause

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The A Y Jackson Painting Collection

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark .

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Birthing Centre In Taloyoak

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to, first of all, congratulate you on your successful bid to the office of the Speaker and my colleague from the Kitikmeot, Kelvin Ng . Congratulations. I would like to thank the Members who voted for my colleague and thank the Members who ran for the Cabinet position.

Mr. Speaker, Taloyoak, formerly Spence Bay, has been endeavouring to establish a birthing centre as a service to expectant mothers in that vicinity; namely, Gjoa Haven, Pelly Bay and Taloyoak. Mr. Speaker, we all know this requires very careful consideration especially when we are dealing with an issue of potential medical complications to expectant mothers and unborn babies.

Mr. Speaker, what benefit do we expect from a facility such as a birthing centre? Perhaps we can cut costs by not sending pregnant women away from home. Of course, this is not the main issue in this case. Mr. Speaker, the issue is, let us give some freedom of choice to pregnant mothers, if they are so inclined to do so. Mr. Speaker, the concept of building birthing centres in the regions is of very good merit. There are experienced midwives who are aboriginal people who have given birth in camps, without the help of medical practitioners. Mr. Speaker, during the appropriate time, I will be asking the appropriate Minister some questions about this issue. Thank you.

---Applause

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Birthing Centre In Taloyoak

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike .

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Violence And The Justice System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and honourable Members. Most of you are aware, through the media, of an incident which happened to me on December 24th of last year when I was the victim of violence in trying to stop a fight. This incident happened between 11:00 am and 12:00 noon. Mr. Speaker, I feel I was victimized twice: Once by the offender; and, once by our government when I was asked to step down from my Cabinet post by our Premier .

Mr. Speaker, I am making this statement not in haste but with the concern I have in the way in which our Premier has exercised her authority in dismissing her Cabinet Ministers in the past. It has not been consistent, nor in line with parliamentary procedures, nor in the tradition of this government. Other jurisdictions have procedures in place that, over time, have been tried and tested.

Mr. Speaker, what I would like to say to my colleagues, the citizens of the NWT, and especially my constituents is this: After the incident on the 24th of December, upon my return to Yellowknife on December 27th, I informed our Premier in detail of the incident, whereby she advised me to get in touch with the Cabinet deputy minister. Again, I told him in detail about the incident. I was assured not to worry, although I did indicate that if the press got a hold of it, they would make more of it than what it was.

Mr. Speaker, this was on December 27th. It wasn't until January 10th, when news of the incident came out through CBC, that I heard concerns from our Premier . Mr. Speaker, there was an investigation done on events surrounding the incident and the results...

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Violence And The Justice System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I'm sorry, Ms. Mike . Ms. Mike .

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Violence And The Justice System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Can I ask for unanimous consent to complete my Member's statement?

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Violence And The Justice System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Ms. Mike is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? Ms. Mike , go ahead.

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Violence And The Justice System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and my colleagues. Mr. Speaker, there was an investigation done surrounding the incident and the results were announced by the RCMP that there would be no further charges laid, other than the charges that I laid against my offender.

Mr. Speaker, I have never asked for special treatment, nor am I asking now. I don't want my colleagues to think this is what it is; asking for special treatment. It isn't. If anyone should admit their mistakes, I would be the first one in line to do so. I know in this territory of ours, we have a large population of honest people who many of us are proud of, and I have always tried not to lose sight of that.

a Member, was upholding the belief we talked about; unfortunately, I was victimized for it.

Finally, I would like to thank my constituents for being with me every step of the way while I was going through this turmoil. Thank you very much. Qujannamiik. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Violence And The Justice System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Mike . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis .

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Absence From The House

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. You know very well that I take my work very seriously as one of your three table officers, and I would like to report to you, Mr. Speaker, that in the early hours of this morning, I found an overwhelming desire to eat some bacon. To do that, you have to have a very sharp knife, which I sharpened. But in the middle of that operation, instead of sharpening the knife, I ended up cutting my finger very deeply; my left thumb. Since I've never believed in being a burden on the health system, I always look after my own needs, look after my own health, as much as I can.

Since then, I've realized that when you cut yourself to the bone, you should really go to see the doctor. So on the advice of several people that I've met this morning and this afternoon, I will in fact be away for an hour or two this afternoon. But if required, Mr. Speaker, I will still be available to serve you in any way I can when we get to committee. Thank you very much.

---Applause

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Absence From The House

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ng .

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Appointment Of Commissioner Helen Maksagak

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Monday, January 16th, the Honourable Helen Maksagak was sworn in as the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. Many of us, other guests, along with Ms. Maksagak's husband, John, her four daughters and her three sons were also privileged to be able to attend the ceremony and reception held afterwards in our great hall.

I'm also pleased to announce that on February 1st, the community of Cambridge Bay hosted a feast and entertainment evening that was well attended, to honour Ms. Maksagak in her appointment as the first Inuk, first female and first Nunavut resident to be bestowed the honour of serving as Commissioner. This community event was attended by mayors, councillors and leaders from throughout the Kitikmeot, as there was a regional council meeting being held during that same week.

I would like to congratulate the Honourable Helen Maksagak on her appointment. Kitikmeot residents are proud of her accomplishment, and I ask all Members to join me in wishing

---Applause

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Appointment Of Commissioner Helen Maksagak

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Importance Of Mlas' Liaison With Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to share with Members in the House my constituency travel, which I just concluded recently. As you all know, I represent six communities. I think it's safe to say that it's the most communities that I have to represent in the House here. From February 1st to the 12th, I had the opportunity to travel to all the six communities by road and winter road with a vehicle. I just wanted to say that upon visiting all the communities, each community is very busy.

There is a lot of potential for growth in each community, and members of the community leadership are working very hard in trying to make life better for people in communities. There is a lot of concern out there.

I've been to Fort Liard and Nahanni Butte, where we opened a new assembly hall on which I will make a separate Member's statement about later on.

In Fort Simpson, I asked my constituency assistant to find a date during that week where I could have a meeting and he was told that Tuesday would be a very good day. When the meeting came around, I found out there were six other meetings going on in that small community. So that's just an example of how busy people are in the communities. Everybody has their own concerns, they're working on their own projects, they have their own businesses and so forth.

During this trip to the communities, I had the opportunity to meet with various community leaders as well as individuals and elders. At the formal meetings, they are very important, and I had the opportunity to visit a lot of different groups and different people in the communities.

I just want to say, Mr. Speaker, that I consider these community meetings to be one of the most important responsibilities of MLAs. Even though, Mr. Speaker, we're all involved with other obligations as MLAs, the concerns and issues brought to our attention by our constituents take priority over all other matters. That's the way I regard my responsibility. I just wanted to share that with you. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Importance Of Mlas' Liaison With Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson .

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Student Residences

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 118

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, speaking in reply to my question yesterday about whether decisions would be made about student residences in the regions, in advance of completion of the Avery, Cooper study, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Nerysoo , stated that, "No final determinations have been

made." This clearly suggests to me that nothing has yet changed and all options are open until the study is completed and the recommendations can be considered. This is the same message Mr. Nerysoo gave in committee of the whole this past fall.

However, I understand that the proposed new funding formula for student accommodation will make drastic changes to the funds available to support student residences effective April 1, 1995. For example, I'm told by the Baffin divisional board that the new funding formula provides $7 per day per student for food, yet actual costs in Pond Inlet and Iqaluit are now $13 a day and $21 a day for food. The formula provides for about one staff member for each 12 students; yet present staffing levels are higher.

By the way, the Ukiivik Residence in Iqaluit certainly does not have 19 staff members for 15 students; it has only nine. I wonder which residence the Minister was talking about in this House yesterday when he said it had 19 staff members for 15 students.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask Members of this House, how can the Minister say, on the one hand, that "no final determinations have been made," quoting his words, when the boards have been given notice in writing of a new funding formula for this coming fiscal year, this past December. I would like to also ask, why is the Minister undertaking an expensive study and inviting everyone, including boards of education and Members of this House, to participate in good faith in this review and assuring us that no decision has been made to close the residences when the new funding formula has already been put in place.

I am going to call on the Minister to honour his pledges in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Student Residences

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 119

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Patterson . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne .

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Appointment Of Ambassador Mary Simon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 119

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I want to join other Members in congratulating Mary Simon, who last fall was appointed as Canada's first ambassador for circumpolar affairs. This appointment illustrates both the importance of the Arctic region as the globe evolves, from the former bi-polar world of the United States and the Soviet Union, into a world where regions take on much more importance.

The ambassador, in her talk with us today at noon, talked about her first goal as ambassador, which is to create an Arctic council which will consist of eight northern countries: Canada; United States; Russia; and, a number of the Scandinavian countries, who will join together to discuss areas of mutual interest, whether it is trade, the environment, defence, et cetera. It is interesting because the Canadian government is embarking on new foreign policy concepts and this gives the northern people of Canada an opportunity for the first time to play a much more important role in Canada's foreign policy.

If the Arctic council goes ahead, which I hope it will, people of the Northwest Territories, especially aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories will have, for the first time, a significant role to play in determining the foreign policy of our country.

So I see it as a tremendous opportunity for the people of the Northwest Territories. I also see it as a unifying factor of the Northwest Territories, where much of our politics tends to divide us as we are separating into two territories and as the western Arctic goes through constitutional discussions. By our involvement in the circumpolar world, we will find areas that can unite us. I also say that our government and Legislative Assembly, presently Mr. Kakfwi , deserve a lot of credit for the ongoing support that they have given to the whole concept of strengthening the circumpolar world.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to offer my congratulations to Mary Simon. I am sure she will do a tremendous job as our ambassador to the Arctic world. Thank you.

---Applause

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Appointment Of Ambassador Mary Simon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 119

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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Cutback Of Glos In Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 119

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to ask this question again. I had raised this question yesterday with regard to GLOs -- government liaison officers -- in the communities. Their positions are going to be terminated in the near future. I would like the government to give consideration to what positions might be established to take their place. Perhaps they could come under another title, not GLO. There will be a cutback on their salaries and I think they are very important. I feel we haven't been given enough time to think about this and have our say. I am asking Cabinet to think about the replacement of these GLOs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Cutback Of Glos In Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 119

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe .

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Treatment Of Jurors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 119

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, periodically we get calls from our constituents on issues that disturb them or issues they wish to talk about and have us raise in our various committees or in the House. This one particular day, I believe it was during the Warren trial, one of the jurors collapsed from exhaustion and it was front-page news in the newspapers and also on the radio.

This particular elder from the Delta called me just after that because he was sitting in his bush camp listening to the radio and he heard the reports on the jurors who were sequestered. They were locked up in one of the hotels, under guard, had no access to radio, television or telephones. They couldn't talk to their families or anyone else. This individual was very concerned on how we treat people who serve on juries because of their limited access once the sequestering takes place. He was comparing the treatment of these people to the treatment that we give to the so-called criminals. They have access to TV, telephones, radios and visitors.

It really makes one thing clear about how our justice system works and how we treat people who are providing a public service. You don't have a lot of people lining up to serve on committees and juries. With that, he was also concerned -- and it is a concern of mine -- that in the proposed Judicature Act, there was a proposal to cut the fees that we pay to jurors and people who are called up for the so-called "cattle call." I oppose these cuts and will vote when that comes up in the legislation. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Treatment Of Jurors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Koe . Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Methods Of Awarding GNWT Tenders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, following up from my colleague, the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake , yesterday in his statement, my honourable colleague stated that he was "shocked" with regard to the awarding of a tender. Mr. Speaker, I have reviewed a few tenders and I must say that I am quite appalled at the way the tenders are being awarded. Mr. Speaker, I want to give a few examples to this House with respect to the awarding of tenders and the methods being used, which I can't understand.

First of all, I will speak to the electrical contract which was awarded and received by Clark-Bowler and DPW in December. There were four bids on the electrical contract: First, the electrical contractor, Standard Electric; Amity Electric; F-S One Call; and, ADCO North.

It was decided that Standard Electric's bid was non-responsive. The second lowest bidder was F-S One Call. However, they decided to withdraw their contract because they had left something out of their tender document. The local steering committee, which I commend for all of the volunteer work that they have done, requested DPW and Clark Bowler to consider giving the tender to a local company in Fort Smith, who was Amity Electric. Amity Electric's suggested tender bid was $445,000 and planned to use fully local content.

However, ADCO North was awarded the bid for $438,000 and planned to use only $157,000 local content. So, it was decided to award the tender, by DPW and Clark-Bowler to ADCO North because it was $7,000 lower than the local contractor Amity Electric, even though Amity Electric was going to use $288,000 more local content. The recommendation from the steering committee was denied because the local contractor was $7,000 more and ADCO North was awarded the contract from Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue with my Member's statement.

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Methods Of Awarding GNWT Tenders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Methods Of Awarding GNWT Tenders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to assure my honourable colleague from Yellowknife Frame Lake that Yellowknife contractors are actively being considered. But, Mr. Speaker, when I give the second example, I understand why my colleague from Yellowknife Frame Lake is concerned and shocked by the situation.

The interior finishing tender was tendered twice. After opening the first tender of five components, Clark-Bowler and DPW again recommended to go back out to tender so they could only receive one tender.

The bidders were asked to submit a combined price and, as a result, all the tenders were placed into one. The following results were given: Rainbow Holdings' adjusted tender price was $304,000; Salt Rivers' adjusted price was $314,000; ARC Interior Systems' adjusted price -- who was awarded the tender -- was $355,000. So, DPW and Clark-Bowler awarded the contract to ARC Interior Systems for $40,880 more, over a local contractor. It amazes me how DPW and Clark Bowler could find $40,000 to bring in a southern contractor, but couldn't find $7,000 to award to a local contractor on another tender project. Mr. Speaker, I find that appalling. Thank you.

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Methods Of Awarding GNWT Tenders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Allooloo .

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Appointment Of Ambassador Mary Simon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I would like to congratulate Mary May Simon, she is going to be our ambassador from the Arctic to the Circumpolar Conference. I understand she is very well known by Greenland and Yupik residents. She is very well known by all of us in the north and also the people of Samie Nation in the Circumpolar Conference. I understand she is going to be very helpful. She is going to be a good representative and a good leader.

She used to be President of ICC, the Inuit Circumpolar Conference, and she was also a leader of other organizations, including a major leader of land claims initiatives. I feel we are going to be represented by her very well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Appointment Of Ambassador Mary Simon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Recognition Of Long-term Health Care Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 120

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On a more positive note, Mr. Speaker, I want to rise to pay tribute to three distinguished Gwich'in women who are all originally from Fort McPherson, one presently living in Fort McPherson and two living in Inuvik. These three women have provided public services, and have received recognition from this government, for over 25 years to the people of the Northwest Territories in the Inuvik region.

First, Mary Kaye, who has worked with the Fort McPherson and now William Firth Health Centre for 25 years; her sister, Shirley Charlie Kaye, who has worked with the Inuvik General Hospital originally and now the regional hospital for 25 years; and, finally, their cousin Elizabeth Crawford Hansen who has taught in such communities as Deline, Fort McPherson, Inuvik, both at SAMS and the Samuel Hearne High School. I want to indicate that all have provided 25 years of distinguished public service to the Northwest Territories and I wanted to pay them respects and give them recognition.

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Recognition Of Long-term Health Care Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 121

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

---Applause

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Recognition Of Long-term Health Care Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 43-12(7): Results Of Investigation Into Nova Construction

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 121

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to question asked by Mr. Patterson on November 16, 1994 regarding results of investigation of Nova Construction.

On November 16, 1994, Mr. Patterson , the Member for Iqaluit asked if the results of an investigation of Nova Construction would be provided to this Assembly. Mr. Patterson 's concerns were the adherence to the business incentive policy and whether requirements in the contract to use "Operation Sealift" were honoured by the contractor.

Mr. Speaker, I have responded to Mr. Patterson by way of a letter dated December 2, 1994. A full evaluation of the project will be carried out once the contract is complete. The project is expected to be complete in April 1995. Once I have received all the information, I will advise Mr. Patterson and Members of the House on the results of the investigation. Thank you.

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Return To Question 43-12(7): Results Of Investigation Into Nova Construction

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Patterson .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 121

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

I would like to recognize Mr. Ben MacDonald and congratulate him on his great interest in the affairs of the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

---Laughter

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ningark .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 121

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a very special person, my better half, Celine, and two of my grandchildren.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ng .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 121

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to, once again, recognize the Honourable Helen Maksagak, Commissioner, and her husband, John.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 64-12(7): Northerners' Concerns Reflected In Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice . Mr. Speaker, we all know that the federal Minister of Justice tabled new gun control legislation this week. Through the good offices of Mr. Kakfwi , the federal Minister had a chance to directly hear concerns of Members of this House regarding the potential impact of this new legislation on northerners, particularly those who maintain a traditional lifestyle. We told him how people use guns, how they share firearms, et cetera.

I would like to ask the Minister of Justice , who I believe has had a chance to review this complicated piece of legislation, if he feels that the concerns expressed this past fall by northerners and Members of this Assembly were heard and are reflected in this proposed legislation? Thank you.

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Question 64-12(7): Northerners' Concerns Reflected In Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 64-12(7): Northerners' Concerns Reflected In Proposed Firearms Legislation

Question 64-12(7): Northerners' Concerns Reflected In Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, on just an initial review of the legislation -- a more detailed, analytical review is taking place now, in consultation with other provincial governments -- it is my initial impression that most of the concerns we had -- although they may have been clearly understood and received by the federal government -- are not reflected in this legislation. There were perhaps only two areas where changes may have been made.

But for the most part, our concerns about registration were: We felt registration was not necessary; it was going to be costly; impossible to implement; and, was a major intrusion into the lives of northern people and into the lifestyle of aboriginal people in particular. And that registration is going to go ahead as planned.

As I said, most of the concerns we had have not, on first review, been dealt with by the federal government. The legislation is tabled, it is going to be taken up by the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and they will be having hearings across the country. We will be inviting them to come and hear northerners first hand. Perhaps at that time, we will not only be heard loud and clear but also, we will have some political movement to meet the concerns that we will be expressing again. Thank you.

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Question 64-12(7): Northerners' Concerns Reflected In Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 65-12(7): NWT Residents' Concerns Re Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the same Minister, the Minister of Justice . To some gun owners, a gun is regarded as a toy, sometimes it is regarded as a show piece, sometimes it is used for evil deeds. But for community people of the NWT, it is a hunting tool used as a means of survival. Like my colleague, Mr. Patterson , I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Justice -- he has outlined some of the key points that the NWT people made concerns about -- my question is, what are these other key

points -- that he did not answer to Mr. Patterson 's question -- that people are concerned about in the NWT?

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Question 65-12(7): NWT Residents' Concerns Re Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 65-12(7): NWT Residents' Concerns Re Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The registration proposal that the federal government has entailed in this piece of legislation will make it mandatory for all of us to register our rifles and our guns by the year 2003. Failure to do so will be a serious criminal offence. It will require that each of us that wishes to use a gun and to hold one, will be required to apply for a possession permit and failure to do so will also be a serious criminal offence.

The provisions for sentencing under this part, as we see it, are very, very serious. So if you fail to register your guns or if you are in possession without having a possession permit or you are in possession of a gun that is not registered under your name, you are subject to the criminal code that says the sentence will be a maximum of 10 years. On a second offence, the minimum sentence will be a year. On the third and forth sentence, the minimum will be two years. This is not a light suggestion by the federal Minister; it means that, theoretically, all of us will be committing criminal offences on a regular basis.

Every time, for instance, a hunter leaves his gun in the boat of a friend that he is hunting with, he is leaving it in the possession of someone else; he will be committing a criminal offence. Every time you use your father's gun or a relative or friends gun and it doesn't belong to you, you are committing a criminal offence. Every time you store a gun in the protection of someone else's home, a cabin, a tent, a truck, a boat, a skidoo, you will be committing a criminal offence. So it is not a light matter that we are discussing here, there are very, very heavy implications for all northern people and particularly for aboriginal people.

We had extensively discussed with the federal Minister a requirement that there should not be one national safety course for firearms, that in the Northwest Territories aboriginal people use guns from an early age on a regular basis, and we do have our own programs for training in firearms safety.

We do not need, for instance, to know about black gun powder, we do not need to know ballistics, we do not need to know about how you figure out calibers, we do not need to know about parts of guns and some of the many technical features of hand guns in order to qualify for a possession permit and a permit to be able to use guns. And yet, in the legislation, it does provide that there will be one course.

So we do not see anything in there that reflects what we thought were some assurances given that there would be flexibility to meet the concerns that we had expressed. These are the concerns that we have expressed; one, on the view that we have that guns are tools for us, they are not weapons. They are not used as weapons to commit offences and ours is a very different perspective from the perspective of people living in Toronto and Montreal where yes, a gun, if you have it in downtown Toronto, is not going to be used for hunting, it is going to be used for committing a criminal offence, in most cases.

So these are the concerns that we expressed and where we see the federal proposals falling short. Thank you.

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Question 65-12(7): NWT Residents' Concerns Re Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Ms. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 66-12(7): Annual Registration Fees Under Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice regarding the gun control. Mr. Speaker, many northerners who live a traditional lifestyle own a number of firearms and on the other hand, they do not have a great deal of discretionary income. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice , does the proposed federal gun control legislation require annual registration fees for all firearms or is it an annual fee per firearm? Thank you.

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Question 66-12(7): Annual Registration Fees Under Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 66-12(7): Annual Registration Fees Under Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that you register the firearm once, it is the possession permit where you will be applying and requiring a fee in order to gain a permit. It is going to be replacing the firearms acquisition certificate, I think it is called a firearms possession permit and those, I think, have to be renewed every five years. There may be some provisions made by the federal government that were not clear to me at this time, that will make allowances for subsistence hunters and trappers. Thank you.

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Question 66-12(7): Annual Registration Fees Under Proposed Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 67-12(7): Exemptions To Registration Fees In Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice on the firearms. Federal Minister Allan Rock did make some visits to the north, and during his visit to Yellowknife, he met with the Caucus and he also met with the public. During these discussions, there was strong emphasis, especially from us, that there be exemptions in their registration process, particularly for aboriginal people or people who are general hunting licence holders. Currently, people who purchase firearms acquisition certificates are exempted from the fees. My question to the Minister is, are there any exemptions for northerners in the registration provisions of the proposed federal bill?

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Question 67-12(7): Exemptions To Registration Fees In Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 67-12(7): Exemptions To Registration Fees In Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my understanding that all guns in Canada will be required to be registered, if the legislation is passed as is, I think, by January 1st of the year 2003. If you fail to register guns that you own or possess by that time, you will be seen to be committing a criminal offence. Thank you.

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Question 67-12(7): Exemptions To Registration Fees In Firearms Legislation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Question 68-12(7): Public Hearings On Proposed Firearms Legislation In Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I heard the Minister say earlier on that there will be public hearings on the proposed federal firearms legislation. I would like to ask the Minister if he could inform this House as to what actions the Minister of Justice here in the territories will be taking to ensure that some of these public hearings are held in the Northwest Territories.

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Question 68-12(7): Public Hearings On Proposed Firearms Legislation In Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 68-12(7): Public Hearings On Proposed Firearms Legislation In Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my suggestion that once a more thorough analysis and review of the proposed legislation is done by our officials, in conjunction with other jurisdictions, I will have an opportunity to brief the Members of this Legislature who wish to discuss it in some forum, seek some direction and advice from Members on a possible strategy to continue to press the concerns that we have as Members and the concerns of the people of the Northwest Territories to ensure that the legislation that is passed more properly reflects the real intent of the legislation.

We will be considering, for instance, more lobbying, utilizing our Members of Parliament who are in Ottawa to represent us, and also to strategize on how to make maximum use of the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, I think it is called, that will be conducting these hearings, and to use everything we can to make sure they come north to hear and see us in the environment that we're talking about. Thank you.

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Question 68-12(7): Public Hearings On Proposed Firearms Legislation In Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 69-12(7): Impact Of Proposed Firearms Legislation On Sport Hunters And Outfitters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice , also to do with gun control. Before the legislation was tabled, a number of outfitters had expressed concern that their clients from across Canada, the US and Europe would experience considerable difficulty with this sort of legislation. They would experience considerable difficulty coming to the Northwest Territories to hunt. Given the economic implications of this, I was wondering if the Minister has had a chance to examine the legislation enough to give us an indication of what he sees as the impact on sports hunting and outfitters of the new legislation.

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Question 69-12(7): Impact Of Proposed Firearms Legislation On Sport Hunters And Outfitters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 69-12(7): Impact Of Proposed Firearms Legislation On Sport Hunters And Outfitters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, we have not had an opportunity to get into a detailed analysis. It's unclear to me at this time how the legislation will impact on, for instance, sport hunters from other countries coming in and how it will impact on the import and transportation of firearms from outside the country. So we will just have to wait until we get a clear idea of how this legislation impacts on that and get back to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 69-12(7): Impact Of Proposed Firearms Legislation On Sport Hunters And Outfitters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne .

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Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

I have a question for the Minister responsible for Public Works, and it has to do with the review of the business incentive policy. There has been some concern expressed by certain individuals that in the consultation done now by the department, consultants are doing the consultation and there's nobody present from the Minister's department. Could the Minister please explain the rationale for not having departmental officials present at the consultation meetings? Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Public Works , Mr. Pollard .

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Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, that was a conscious decision. It was decided that in order that there be perceived to be no overbearance by the Department of Public Works in order that it could be an open process where anybody could say anything they wanted and not have to be worried about being argued against or anything of that nature, it was decided not to have Public Works there. Although, any information that would be required at those meetings would be provided by the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne , supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand partly the rationale because it would be unfair to have civil servants, especially middle level civil servants, embroiled in political discussions, and that could happen. On the other hand, Mr. Speaker, there is a problem at the end of the day because the government will see the complaints and the concerns through the prism of a consultant, not having anyone there to actually get the flavour and the details of the discussions.

So my question to the Minister is how is the department going to be able to handle that at the end of the day if, in fact, they don't have the full story and they don't respond to the full range of concerns? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, obviously that is a concern that we might miss something along the way. But there are written submissions that are being made where the department will be able to read them verbatim. We have some

faith in those facilitators; that they are going to be able to give us the information as it was provided at the meeting. There is opportunity and there is opportunity being used to directly contact either myself or the department. I realize the danger that's there, but we think that if we're conscious enough and we pay attention to the information that's delivered, we will be able to make a wise judgement on the information provided.

If it does look -- and I take this commitment on personally, Mr. Speaker -- when I review that information, the thing that I'm hearing politically and the concerns that we've all heard through the last three years and the concerns that have been raised on the floor of this House, if they are not being addressed or if that's not the reflection, then we will look at another process to make sure that those concerns are addressed, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne , supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Lack Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you. I appreciate the Minister's response. If I could make one request to the Minister, if he could commit that, at some point during the process, the Minister would be prepared to meet with at least a representative group of business people to hear first hand from them what their concerns are. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Lack Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I would be more than willing to do that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Question 70-12(7): Reason For Absence Of Departmental Officials At Bip Consultation Meetings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 71-12(7): Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Subsequent to my Member's statement regarding a birthing centre for Taloyoak, in the absence of the Minister of Health and Social Services, I will direct my question to the Minister of Finance . Mr. Speaker, for low-risk pregnant mothers who choose to stay home to have their babies in their communities, sometimes it may be better to have those mothers stay home and have babies. In fact, when they come to large medical centres, there are likely to be more complications due to stress, fatigue and sometimes loneliness. Mr.

Speaker, the issue has been ongoing for about 10 years now in Taloyoak. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance , what is the status of establishing a birthing centre in Taloyoak? Thank you.

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Question 71-12(7): Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 71-12(7): Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

Question 71-12(7): Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as you know and what has been reported to the House previously, when the pilot project was commenced in Rankin Inlet -- and I must say from peripheral looks at this particular issue, it looks as if the Rankin Inlet birthing project has been a success, Mr. Speaker, but I'm not an expert, so I will wait for the expert's opinion on that -- we said at that time that once the project was under way and there could be an analysis done, that we would do that. I believe that is almost completed and we should have something this year.

I believe the Minister of Health has said that once we have looked at those numbers and proven out the pilot project, we would certainly be willing to look at other areas of the Northwest Territories where the communities want that particular service. The Member who is raising this has been vocal about this on the floor of this House, and I'm here to tell you that we are very aware of his concern and his request and I'm sure it will be given top priority, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 71-12(7): Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

Question 71-12(7): Status Of Birthing Centre For Taloyoak

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and I would like to get some straight answers today. I would like to ask the Minister does the new student residence funding formula -- which the boards have been given notice of this December -- contemplate the department continuing to fund large residences in regional centres? Yes or no.

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Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education , Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for clarification -- and I'll give you the straight answer -- the fact is the formula which was provided in December was a draft formula that was provided to the boards for discussion. It was to provide certainty in the amount of resources that would be provided so there was fairness and equity in the distribution of those resources. That was the basis on which that funding was provided.

Secondly, the contract for review was to determine future use for the buildings, the options for the buildings and considerations of whether or not there would be a need for smaller residences, the continuation of the residences, home boarding or whatever other options there might be. If there was a decision to close the residences, the question was then, what are the alternative uses.

The honourable Member, in fact, at one time, made the suggestion to close Ukiivik and using it for Arctic College. If that was one of the options considered, we would consider it. But, until the report is concluded, I'm not going to indicate that we have made any final decisions. I believe the report will give us suggestions, at which time I will take that report and its recommendations for final decision before I make any final concluding comments on this matter.

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Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these boards need to know what money they have, early on, for April 1st. They should know now if they have to lay off staff, for example, on April 1st. I would like to ask the Minister again, in getting the draft for discussion in December now, today, as these boards plan their fiscal years, isn't the new funding formula designed and targeted to smaller residences with house parents as staff? Isn't that what it says? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Further Return To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

It is one of the considerations, yes.

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Further Return To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the Minister's strategy to 2010 document says close the regional student residences. We raised alarm about this. We asked if this was the case and we were assured all options were open.

I would like to ask the Minister if the real hidden agenda here -- putting aside, "I haven't made the final decision yet; we are awaiting the options for future uses of the buildings," putting aside all this evasive discussion -- is to close the larger residences in Iqaluit, Rankin Inlet and Inuvik, why doesn't the Minister just come out and say, this is the department's strategy, this is how the new funding formula is laid out? Why doesn't he just tell us now instead of letting us believe that nothing has been decided? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Further Return To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The decision in the strategy is quite clear, that it is our intention to move from regional residences to high school programming in the communities. That was the direction that the honourable Member, in fact during his tenure as Minister, laid out the groundwork for. This is no different, Mr. Speaker, than his decision, when he was Minister, of closing the residences in Fort McPherson, Fort Good Hope, Bompas Hall in Fort Simpson and Grandin College. The fact is, the direction of high school programs in the communities is the reflection of the foundation he left. What we're doing is following up on the direction that he laid.

The point he is raising is an important one. The point is, we needed a draft formula with which we could conduct discussions with the boards. It also needed to have the comments of the boards. I can advise the honourable Member that the three remaining large residences have seen their enrolments decrease, and the economic factors are such that

the average costs of fully operating the large residences right now is $75,000 per year per student.

Now, the honourable Member knows that while I wish to move the students back to their home communities, I will not do it at the risk of programs. He raised the point as an issue in our visit to Iqaluit: the problem of matriculation programming in the communities. That is all part of the consideration and I'm not prepared to make a final decision now. The fact is, the boards don't give the lay-off notices; it works through the government and at this particular time we have issued no lay-off notices to anyone.

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Further Return To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, if housing these students from small communities where the advanced diploma is not available at present -- and I assume high school programs in communities includes the advanced diploma -- in group homes with house parents turns out to be the preferable alternative in communities like Iqaluit, Inuvik and Rankin Inlet -- if I dare speak about other communities other than my own -- where I know housing is at a premium and no obvious housing alternatives exist like group homes -- there is tremendous pressure on housing -- would the Minister agree that it will take some time to plan and implement this new direction, certainly more than a few months?

Will the Minister agree it will take more than a few months to implement these new alternatives, and these boards need a lot more notice than a few months? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Further Return To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that the honourable Member has pointed out an important component that needs further discussion. You must remember, Mr. Speaker, and the honourable Member must recognize, that the school program runs up to June. We have some time to manoeuvre between the end of March to the end of the school year. I cannot say to the honourable Member we may not consider closing the residences because I have not seen the recommendations of the report.

But I've also suggested to the honourable Member that I will consider all factors before I make a final decision, and I've been trying to indicate that to all Members of this House, that we have not made any final decisions because we have not got the recommendations.

I think the honourable Member...(inaudible)...and his advice in the review would do well to consider and provide that information, and we will consider it.

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Further Return To Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Question 72-12(7): New Student Residence Funding Formula

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 125

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 73-12(7): Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of DPW. Mr. Speaker, I fully recognize that the tender awards for the academic building were done prior to the new Minister of DPW being appointed. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I have full confidence in the new Minister to address the issue of improper or inconsistent awarding of tenders.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, will the Minister review the situation and advise this House why DPW and Clark-Bowler confirmed and approved the awarding of the electrical and interior finishing contract tender award?

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Question 73-12(7): Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Public Works , Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 73-12(7): Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Question 73-12(7): Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened with attention to Mr. Dent 's Member's statement yesterday, and the department is formulating a report to me in that regard. If Members in the House can be a little patient, I'll add on the other issues that the honourable Member, Jeannie Marie-Jewell , has raised today and bring back a report covering the whole. I will do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 73-12(7): Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Question 73-12(7): Minister To Review Awarding Of Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question 74-12(7): Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Public Works and Services and it has to do with my Member's statement yesterday and the issues that the Member for Thebacha has also talked about. I recognize that the Minister just said the department is preparing a response for him on this issue. My question is, has the Minister directed that the letter of intent on the contract for interior finishing be rescinded until such time as he has a chance to review the situation and perhaps insist that the award be made to a northern company?

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Question 74-12(7): Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Public Works , Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 74-12(7): Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Question 74-12(7): Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, that was my first question, and unfortunately, the process had gone too far for me to be able to stop the contract or review the contract. I did ask that yesterday and unfortunately, it had gone too far, Mr. Speaker, so I'm unable to stop the contract. Thank you.

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Return To Question 74-12(7): Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Question 74-12(7): Letter Of Intent Re Drywall Contract

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister stated in response to some questions I asked about the student residence formula, that in one particular student residence there are now 19 staff members and 15 students. I would like to ask the Minister which particular residence the Minister is referring to. Thank you.

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Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education , Mr. Nerysoo .

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Return To Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, with regard to that, that was a different matter and I apologize for the information. Here is the correct information. In Ukiivik Hall, there are 27 students, 11.5 staff members, the cost is $1.644 million. Grollier Hall has 53 students with 23 staff, and the staff are on contract. The contract is worth $1.645 million. Kivalliq Hall, 22 students, 11 staff, $944,000. That's the correct information.

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Return To Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

I'm told, at present, there are nine staff members in Ukiivik Residence today, not 11.5. I would like to ask the Minister, which residence was he talking about authoritatively yesterday that has 19 staff members and 15 students, if it wasn't the residences in Iqaluit, Rankin Inlet and Inuvik? Which residence was he referring to? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Further Return To Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There was no residence. What it was was information that had to do with a community matter that was quoted on the document, so I apologize for that. Just so that the honourable Member is aware, there are nine staff members in Iqaluit and there are also 2.5 broken down into a husband and wife team and a part-time cook. That makes the 2.5.

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Further Return To Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Question 75-12(7): Staffing In Student Residence

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 76-12(7): Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of DPW. Mr. Speaker, it's unfortunate that the process has gone too far to correct some of the inconsistencies in tender awarding. I would like to ask the Minister upon developing a reply to this House, would he be willing to assure us that what areas could be corrected will be, ensuring government funding is going to be spent in the most conscientious, effective and economical manner. Would he advise this House that those areas would be considered? Thank you.

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Question 76-12(7): Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 126

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of DPW, Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 76-12(7): Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Question 76-12(7): Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 127

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, not to give the impression that I don't have faith in the department, but because of the sensitivities that have been raised here in the last two days with regard to this particular job in Fort Smith, I've told the department not to award any more of these contracts unless it's been across my desk first. That is so that I can bring the concerns that are being raised here to the forefront before the awards.

So I will say to this House that, yes, we will look at all of those issues with regard to local hire, local contractors, northern contractors, northern spending of northern money and try and keep as much of the job in the Northwest Territories, which I think was the former Minister's position. I'm sure that once I've revealed the numbers to the House, you'll see that it was carried out to the best of their ability. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 76-12(7): Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Question 76-12(7): Efficient Spending Of Government Funds Re Contracts

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 127

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk .

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Question 77-12(7): Glo Positions In Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 127

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the absence of the Premier , I would like to ask the Deputy Premier, yesterday in the House, the Premier stated in response to a question by Mr. Patterson that in two communities, it has been ruled out that Social Services will be now paying for half of GLO positions, allowing these positions to be full time. My question to the Deputy Premier is in which two communities have these arrangements been worked out?

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Question 77-12(7): Glo Positions In Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 127

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Question 77-12(7): Glo Positions In Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 127

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I'm not the Deputy Premier. I do occasionally answer questions for the Premier in her absence. This one, Mr. Speaker, I'll take as notice. Thank you.

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Question 77-12(7): Glo Positions In Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 127

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pollard . The question is taken as notice. Item 6, oral quest