Health and Social Services — 24 February 2003 (14th Assembly, 6th Session, pp. 261–296)
2003-02-24, 14th Assembly 6th Session, pp. 261–296
Northwest Territories — Debates (Hansard)
Debates of Feb. 24th, 2003
This is page numbers 261 - 296 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.
The word of the day was chairman .
Topics
Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Minister Absent From The House
Education Week 2003
The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Effectiveness Of Range Lake MLA Web Site
Maintenance On Highway No. 3
The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Recognition Of Inuvik Badminton Player James Elias
Congratulations To Canada Games Silver Medalist Mike Argue
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Criteria For New School Construction
Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Tabled Document 22-14(6): Response To Petition 1-14(6) - NWT Beverage Container Recovery Program
Family Violence Protection Legislation
Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
minister's Opening Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
minister's Opening Comments
Standing Committee On Social Programs Comments
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Members Present
Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Mr. McLeod , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen
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-- Prayer
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Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 261
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Colleagues, I know that you join me in expressing great sadness over the recent passing of Mrs. Elaine Whitford.
Elaine was a wonderful ambassador who gracefully represented the Speaker's office, the Legislative Assembly and the NWT.
During their travels, both Elaine and Tony Whitford have made a deep and lasting impression on those who they have met.
Expressions of sympathy are being received from across the North, Canada and other parts of the Commonwealth. Our thoughts and prayers are with Tony and his family at this time.
Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Premier .
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Minister's Statement 20-16(4): Minister Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 261
Stephen Kakfwi
Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Jim Antoine will be late arriving in the House today. Thank you.
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Minister's Statement 20-16(4): Minister Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 261
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Ootes .
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Minister's Statement 21-14(6): Education Week 2003
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 261
Jake Ootes
Yellowknife Centre
Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise my colleagues that February 24th to March 2nd is Education Week in the Northwest Territories.
This year's theme, "Choose to Move...Move for Health!" highlights a holistic approach to education and is a joint effort between the departments of Education, Culture and Employment, Health and Social Services, Municipal and Community Affairs, Sport North and the NWT Recreation and Parks Association.
Mr. Speaker, with almost 35 percent of our population under the age of 19 years, and the growing prevalence of obesity among children, this year's Education Week theme reflects the reality that we must emphasize an active lifestyle. Physical activity improves our health, our capacity for learning and enhances our experiences within families and communities.
Studies show that daily physical activity improves student performance in the areas of memory, problem solving, decision-making, reading and mathematical skills. There is also a proven increase in attention and productivity.
Schools have been encouraged to develop fitness trails as part of their Education Week activities this year. Today, as we launch Education Week, guests will be visiting the trail developed by the students of K'alemi Dene School in Ndilo. I invite each of you to take the opportunity to visit a school and actively demonstrate your support of physical activity by trying their fitness trail.
Our annual celebration of education is an excellent opportunity for each of us to reflect on the ways in which we can enhance not only our own well-being, but the well-being of our families, our schools and our communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Minister's Statement 21-14(6): Education Week 2003
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 261
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent .
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 261
Charles Dent
Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to Minister Allen last week as he made a statement on family violence legislation. I was impressed as he, early in his statement, clearly outlined the social benefits of such legislation. He correctly noted that such legislation gives people at risk of violence another legal tool they can use to protect themselves and their families. But then, Mr. Speaker, I was astounded to hear the Minister say: "We need to have public consultation on whether or not our residents want this legislation." This, Mr.
Speaker, after groups ranging from seniors to members of the Social Agenda Working Group have said that we should have this type of legislation on the books.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister said we couldn't proceed with the legislation because people need to be trained to use it. Mr. Speaker, that would be a good approach, but it's not the one we take most often. Usually we pass legislation, and then set
up the administrative procedures to implement it. That's what we should do with family violence prevention legislation.
Mr. Speaker, let's put some teeth in our declaration of November 3, 2000. In that declaration, Members of this House unanimously said:
The Members of the 14th Legislative Assembly declare their intent to address the issue of family violence through their personal commitments to help stop family violence through their own actions in leadership and further support the collective commitment of the 14th Legislative Assembly to work in partnership with communities and their leaders to help lift the silence surrounding family violence and create caring supports for people experiencing violence.
Mr. Speaker, I checked with Alison MacAteer House, one of the women's shelters in the Northwest Territories. Last year, they had 404 admission inquiries; 153 women were turned away because they were full; 152 women were admitted. When you add in the number of kids who were admitted, that number comes up to 344. Mr. Speaker, it is time to act now. Later today, I will present a motion, seconded by my colleague for Hay River South directing the Minister of Justice to introduce a Family Violence Protection Act in June. Not just table it, as he has offered in his statement, but present it for first and second reading. Mr. Speaker, let's get serious about family violence protection. Thank you.
---Applause
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 262
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 262
Jane Groenewegen
Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to address the issue of the need of family violence legislation for the Northwest Territories. Other Canadian jurisdictions have realized the merit of this type of legislation. It is time that we further demonstrated our commitment as an Assembly to the elimination of family violence by enacting legislation as well.
We've been talking about this for long enough. I do not believe that there are any credible arguments to be made for deferring or delaying the passage of this legislation during the life of the 14th Assembly. I am not deluded in thinking that this legislation in and of itself is the answer to all our problems with family violence in the Northwest Territories. However, I do believe that it could be a very significant piece of what needs to be a comprehensive approach to not just family violence, but to many of the underlying root causes which manifest themselves as violence.
Things such as substance abuse, mental illness, frustration and societal indifference. One of the most important things that family violence legislation would accomplish, is to provide a tool which could expedite the process by which victims, mostly women and children, could be distanced from the immediate harm of the offender without involving lengthy channels normally used in dealing with criminal offences. This would enable law enforcers to assess the situation, seek timely approvals and remove the offender from the home.
An intervention could occur before an incident would potentially escalate to bring irreparable harm to the victim or children in the home, an intervention which would be logistically and emotionally less disruptive to the family. What would happen next is as variable as the circumstances and dynamics of the relationship. It might depend on how prepared the parties are to deal with the situation, how long it has gone on or what supports and remedies are available to assist.
I would liken it to a medical intervention. When someone is injured, remove the patient from the immediate threat of further harm, assess the situation and stabilize the patient. Hopefully removing the offending party would at least temporarily stabilize the situation long enough to assess potential options. With effective help, maybe a relationship could be saved; maybe the integrity of a family could be preserved. Everyone in the family loses when family violence goes unresolved. Mr. Speaker, violence of any type, especially family violence is a very complex matter.
Situations get out of control and what ensues can be a very traumatic and debilitating force, both in terms of the obvious physical trauma, but also the more difficult to quantify psychological effect for both victims and even witnesses, often children.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 262
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? You have unanimous consent.
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 262
Jane Groenewegen
Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you colleagues. I suggest to you that a means of timely intervention would most importantly provide assistance to the victims, but it would ultimately benefit perpetrators of violence as well, as most later regret what they have done to a loved one in the heat of anger or under the influence of alcohol.
---Applause
I was given to believe that family violence legislation would be passed during the life of this government and I would be the seconder to a notice of motion today to accomplish that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 262
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 262
Bill Braden
Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The pervasive plague that is family violence is an enormous yet sadly under-recognized crisis in our society. In fiscal year 2001, 621 women and children were forced to use safe shelters in the NWT. Collectively, they spent more than 8,300 nights away from their homes. That's the equivalent to more than 13 years in hiding. They were fleeing the 424 spousal assaults reported to the RCMP that year. These are horrific numbers. Indeed our rate of demand for safe shelters is eight times, Mr. Speaker, the national average. These are only the cases reported to authorities.
When one understands that far more assaults, beatings and other forms of abuse go unreported, we begin to grasp just how broad and far reaching this is. We have an epidemic raging. It's been described as a tragic and destructive problem of grave proportions. What are we doing about it?
In 1994, the Legislative Assembly of the NWT made a declaration on family violence and this Assembly renewed it in November of 2000. In 1998, the Status of Women Council of the NWT held an interdisciplinary conference and from this was formed the Coalition on Family Violence. Sixteen agencies plus three departments of this government have pooled their collective strength to seek answers. Under the leadership of the Status of Women Council, they produced late last year a research project and survey called Family Violence in the NWT.
Its 42 recommendations are based on extensive research and 104 interview surveys across the NWT. A protocol agreement is being circulated across the territory to gain support for this document and the development of an action plan on family violence that will flow from it. We will need to bring many skills together of many levels to really make a difference.
Mr. Speaker, if there is anything encouraging on the face of this devastating issue, it is that so many leaders in government, community and aboriginal circles are focusing on family violence. I want to sharpen this focus and, along with my colleagues, I want to see this Assembly take a stand on one part of the problem and that is to introduce and pass new legislation which, in simple terms, will reverse the process that we use today, which will cause the abusers, not the victims, to deal with the consequences of violent behaviour. I urge the Minister of Justice to proceed without delay in bringing this new bill before the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 263
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .
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Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 263
Paul Delorey
Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fact that Hay River mothers have to travel to Yellowknife to give birth has been allowed to continue since the spring of 2000 and it's time for this to end. As my colleague, Mrs. Groenewegen , indicated last week, Mr. Speaker, Hay River has a relatively simple solution to this situation. That is to hire two more doctors, so that expectant mothers and other residents of Hay River can be properly served by this government. With the addition of a GP anesthesiologist and a GP surgeon in Hay River, Mr.
Speaker, the Hay River hospital will be able to commence birthing again and they can once again provide a wide range of services, including minor surgical procedures, to the South Slave region that have been traditionally performed in Hay River for many, many years. Mr. Speaker, the population that the Hay River Community Health Board currently services is approximately 6,000 and with deliveries, that population is sure to rise to 9,000. You cannot afford to ignore these numbers, Mr. Speaker.
If Hay River was to acquire these additional doctors, this would enable Hay River's expectant mothers to stay at home when they give birth, close to their loved ones and you cannot put a dollar value on this.
I might remind everyone, Mr. Speaker, that Hay River is a tax-based community and this government is funded by tax dollars. Hay River residents have every right to expect that they can access primary health services such as obstetrics in their home community. Mr. Speaker, I have brought this issue up many times in this House and I will continue to do so until I find a solution to this matter.
Mr. Speaker, there is another service the Hay River hospital currently offers that is in jeopardy of being discontinued if we are not able to secure these two doctors, and that is dental surgery. The Hay River hospital provides dental surgery services for just about the entire NWT. Mr. Speaker, the dental clinic in Hay River has indicated that they could perform dental surgeries at the Hay River hospital for one week out of every month if we could secure these two doctors. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, there is a demonstrated need.
Mr. Speaker, whenever I rise in this House for more doctors for Hay River, I always receive the answer we are looking into it, we are aware of it, we are studying it, we've hired more consultants, and the list goes on, Mr. Speaker.
The time has come to do something about it. I remember well the name of the final report of the Minister's Forum on Health and Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.
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Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 263
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent. Do I hear any nays? There are no nays, you have unanimous consent to continue on.
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Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 263
Paul Delorey
Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I remember well the name of the final report of the Minister's Forum on Health and Social Services from January 2000 entitled "Our Communities, Our Decisions, Let's Get on With It." Well, Mr. Speaker, it is now 2003 and I say let's get on with it, too, and allow the Hay River residents the quality of health care they so deserve. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 263
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .
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Effectiveness Of Range Lake MLA Web Site
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 263
Sandy Lee
Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this being the budget session, we have really been into talking about numbers. I don't have budget numbers of my own to deliver, but I do have numbers of visits to my Web site that I would like to report to the House. Mr. Speaker, since it was started almost three years ago, I have found my Web site to be a very effective communications tool. By updating it weekly and then daily during sessions, I can keep my constituents informed of what I say and do in and out of the House.
It's also great to receive immediate feedback from my constituents on a number of issues, some of them more controversial than others. Mr. Speaker, I am always happy to hear when my constituents say they have my site bookmarked and visit it regularly and by going by the numbers, many others are visiting as well.
Mr. Speaker, my stats are based on the last 12 months from March 2002 to February 20, 2003. The total hits to the site were 238,867. Last month, I received 22,069 hits and this month thus far, the hits are at 17,450. The most hits I received in a month was during the October session where I received 23,261 hits in one month. The numbers do come down during the summer months or when we are not in session. The month of April had the lowest hits at 15,234 followed by August at 16,722.
Taking this month of February as the most recent example, I can report to you that the maximum hits recorded in one day this month was February 14th at 1,501 hits. The average daily hits this month has been about 727 per day. The maximum hits I received in one hour this month was 864, but the average per hour spreads out to about 30. The maximum hits I received in one day was also during the October session where it reached 1,730 in one day. I also find it interesting that the most traffic occurred on my site between 8:00 and 9:00 in the morning, then 2:00 and 3:00 in the afternoon.
The last thing I would like to report is the fact that while most of the servers who visit my site are from the North, as indicated by the names of servers, there are others such as AOL and Google being the main search engines. I have had lots of visits from the rest of Canada and around the world as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Effectiveness Of Range Lake MLA Web Site
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .
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Maintenance On Highway No. 3
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say it's nice to be back in the House.
---Applause
Mr. Speaker, last Tuesday I made a statement in the House when a point of order was raised. A ruling was made in the House on Friday that the words I used in that statement were inappropriate. Perhaps the words I used in the statement were strong, but as a result of that statement, the grader was parked on Highway No. 3 that evening to start with the work the next day.
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Maintenance On Highway No. 3
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
Some Hon. Members
Yea!
---Applause
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Maintenance On Highway No. 3
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
In the past, I have stated that when the staff does work on the road, the quality of work that is done is good. It just needs to be done more often for safety's sake. Mr. Speaker, as an MLA, my job is to lobby for and ensure the safety and well-being of my constituents and I take this job very seriously. For three years, I have been raising concerns about the condition of Highway No. 3 in this House. It is sad that for the most of this time, my suggestions and concerns have been put in the ignore file. I have had numerous people tell me that my concerns about the road are valid. What is of issue here is the safety of all Northerners. I urge all Members of this House to travel the whole
section of road between Yellowknife and Rae and make up their own mind about the condition of this road. Highway No. 3 is a lifeline to health care and it is a link to the central goods and services for my constituents. It is critical that this road be monitored and maintained effectively. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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Maintenance On Highway No. 3
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The member Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah .
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
Steven Nitah
Tu Nedhe
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. My condolences go to Mr. Whitford and his family for their loss.
Mr. Speaker, I am standing in support of my colleagues who will be introducing a motion for the creation of a Family Violence Act. Mr. Speaker, my colleague Mr. Braden spoke eloquently, and gave us some numbers that are disturbing. But he made one point that I think we should grasp. He is saying that this act would be one tool for our resource people to deal with family violence.
The numbers indicate to me, Mr. Speaker, that this is just not a problem that is sourced by one area. It's our low education rate, our high unemployment rates in the communities, our massive shortage of housing, isolation, FAS/FAE. All of those are contributing to family violence. Our numbers speak to that. I encourage the government to introduce legislation and go through the proper number of readings, so the next Assembly can implement the act. I also encourage the government to recognize that this is not a one-source problem. This is a territorial problem that is all inclusive. As I said, Mr.
Speaker, it's isolation, the high cost of living, the shortage of housing, low rate of education, FAS/FAE. Those are all contributing factors. As we develop the legislation, as a government, I encourage them not to focus in on that one bill, but look at it holistically. I commend my colleagues in pushing this to the department and I will be supporting their motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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The Need For Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Allen .
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Recognition Of Inuvik Badminton Player James Elias
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 264
Roger Allen
Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to congratulate one constituent from the Inuvik Twin Lakes riding who is competing in the sport of badminton at the Canada Winter Games. Mr. Speaker, this young person is James Elias, the youngest son of Albert and Shirley Elias who are previously from Holman. From what I have been told, James only started playing badminton 4 years ago at the Sir Alexander Mackenzie School evening sports program. This is quite an accomplishment for one individual which now takes him to a major event in New Brunswick.
Mr. Speaker, I was also told that young James was to have participated in the annual IRC hockey tournament scheduled this coming weekend, but he elected to attend the Canada Winter Games instead. I believe this is a wise choice as he will gain tremendous exposure competing at the national level.
In closing, Mr. Speaker, it gives me a great sense of pride when a young student can examine both sport and academic studies. James is known to be a hard-working student and also a dedicated student while attending Samuel Hearne Secondary School in Inuvik.
I want to extend my congratulations to this fine young individual and encourage him, as well as other young athletes like him, to pursue excellence in both sport and Canadian academic studies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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Recognition Of Inuvik Badminton Player James Elias
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Thank you, Mr. Allen . Mr. Bell .
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Congratulations To Canada Games Silver Medalist Mike Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 265
Brendan Bell
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's just recently come to my attention that we have our first medal in the Canada Winter Games and it goes to a Yellowknifer, Mike Argue, who won a silver medal...
---Applause
...I understand, and he came second out of 50 participants with a silver medal in the 10 kilometre classic cross country skiing race. That's just tremendous to see and hopefully that is just the tip of the iceberg. I hope all my colleagues will join me in congratulating Mike. Thanks.
---Applause
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Congratulations To Canada Games Silver Medalist Mike Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.
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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
At this time, I would like to recognize Warren and Ian Whitford, sons of Elaine and Tony Whitford .
---Applause
Welcome to the House. I would also like to recognize a former Member of this House from 1976 to 1979, Mr. Richard Whitford, who is also here with his wife Betty. Welcome to the House.
---Applause
Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Bell .
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Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
Brendan Bell
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Culture and Employment and it's about capital standards and criteria for facility planning, specifically when it relates to new schools. There's been a lot of discussion in the community about the need for a new high school facility. I think the most recent enrollment statistics indicate that St. Patrick's High is at 132 percent utilization and Sir John Franklin is as well very high, also close to 90 percent, Mr. Speaker. I am wondering what utilization numbers have to come in before the department starts to plan for a new capital facility. Thank you.
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Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .
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Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
Jake Ootes
Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the decisions with respect to additional school facilities to be built are based upon the enrolments overall in a community. In Yellowknife, while some of the schools may be at high capacity, other schools may be at much lower capacity and the capacity overall in schools in Yellowknife today is at approximately 80 percent, Mr. Speaker. So that would indicate that there is capacity in other schools to absorb some of the overload in certain other schools. Thank you.
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Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Supplementary, Mr. Bell .
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Supplementary To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
Brendan Bell
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just so I am clear then, is the Minister suggesting that what we should do when we have 132 percent utilization at a high school is to move some of those high school students into a primary school? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Supplementary To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .
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Further Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
Jake Ootes
Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd have to double check the capacity and enrolment of all schools that the Member has brought up. There are issues, for instance, that the William MacDonald School is not at full capacity. Can some of that be utilized for capacity that is over in other schools, for example? Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 265
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Supplementary, Mr. Bell .
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Supplementary To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Brendan Bell
Yellowknife South
Thank you. I'd like to get the specific percentage of utilization that the department requires in the community then. Is it 80 percent, 85 percent and do we take a proactive approach, let's say for instance, look at the number of children in Grade 6 or Grade 8 currently to try to determine what the high school need will be? Can the Minister give me the percent? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .
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Further Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Jake Ootes
Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Normally planning discussions start to take place at 80 percent. Mr. Speaker, I just was looking for some of my capacity figures and utilization figures and perhaps, you know, Mr. Bell and I could meet on this because my figures are a little different than perhaps Mr. Bell 's. My figures indicate Sir John Franklin High School at 89 percent and the St. Patrick High School at 100 percent, Mr. Speaker, but it indicates to me that there is some capacity in between other schools. As I said, the William MacDonald School is at 59 percent.
We need to take that into consideration when we do planning for other schools and overall, yes the question is, at 80 percent, do we start looking at possibilities for additional schools and the answer to that is yes, we do. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Your final supplementary, Mr. Bell .
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Supplementary To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Brendan Bell
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do have slightly different information, however, the information that I have in front of me here was supplied on request from the Minister's department to me and it has St. Pat's at 132 percent and Sir John at 89 percent. At any event, it looks like we are at least over the 80 percent mark as a community so I am hoping this will trigger the necessary planning for this upcoming budget cycle. Is that the case? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .
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Further Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Jake Ootes
Yellowknife Centre
Well, Mr. Speaker, yes, I did address this issue in terms of notifying the department that we should proceed with the capital needs assessment process and that was passed on to the appropriate officials in FMBS and so forth. So it is not as though we are not aware of the need, Mr. Speaker, nor are we ignoring the fact that it needs to be put in the capital needs assessment. It all comes down to a question of availability of funding at this point, and at what point in time do we need an additional school in Yellowknife. Is that two
years from now or is that five years from now? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Question 76-14(6): Criteria For New School Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Oral questions. The Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .
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Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my question is for the Minister of Transportation . This year, for the first time, a local company built a winter road between Rae and Edzo. This road assists in intercommunity travel and serves as an access road to the church and commercial core of Rae for people from Gameti and Wha Ti. The hamlet has not had the resources to build an ice road for the past two years, so they have had to use internal resources. I would like to ask the Minister, if Dettah can get an ice road, why can't Rae get an ice road between Rae and Edzo? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
The Minister for Transportation , Mr. Handley .
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Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, let me clarify, first of all, the ice road to Dettah is a piece of the public highway system that was identified as such when we did the transfer from the federal government to the territorial government a number of years ago. In terms of an ice road from Edzo to Rae, I understand the hamlet has constructed a road over the past years. I will assume they will continue with that. If they want financial assistance to do that, then they are certainly eligible to apply under our community access road program. So they could apply for some more. We do that kind of support in a number of communities. Thank you.
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Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you Mr. Speaker. I'd like to thank the Minister for the answer but I think community access road funding is only for roads that will be there for access all year round and not for winter roads. If Dettah can get a road, I don't see why Rae-Edzo shouldn't. It only takes 6.5 hours to push the road through and to maintain it would probably be just the same amount of time for the rest of the winter. To me, just a small portion of dollars has to be allocated to the Edzo road and if the Minister can maybe look at doing that instead of just giving me excuses. Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Transportation .
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Further Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 266
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, like I said, the hamlet, if they want, can simply apply for funding and community access road funding doesn't have to be just for permanent all year round roads. It can be used to help with winter roads if that's what the community chooses to do. So, all they have to do is ask. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if they can start budgeting the Rae to Edzo access road in their transportation budget. It is not the responsibility of the hamlet to plow and build roads for public access. This would greatly help the community and also help the Minister's staff to travel to Edzo to go to work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Transportation .
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Further Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, we have money in the budget to cover these kinds of projects, so the money is there. If the community wants an alternative to using the highway route and they want to go across Marion Lake, sure, they can apply for support for that road. The money is there. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yeah, I would like to ask the Minister if he's talking about putting it into his next year's budget or if he is asking me to go back to the hamlet and asking me to apply for it through a different program. Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Colleagues, at this time I would like to direct your attention to the presence in the visitors' gallery of Mr. Doron Bard, Consul at the U.S. Consulate General office in Calgary. He is here visiting Yellowknife and Inuvik. At this time, I would like to welcome you to the Northwest Territories. Welcome.
---Applause
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Supplementary To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Oral questions, Minister of Transportation .
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Further Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have money in the Department of Transportation to cover these kinds of requests. I have no difficulty with doing it. I would have to talk to our staff in Rae-Edzo to see if they want to do it with their regular equipment. Most likely the preference would be to have the hamlet continue to build an ice road, as they have in the past, and if they want financial support from my department, let us know. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Question 77-14(6): Winter Road Between Rae And Edzo
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Oral questions, Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .
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Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Paul Delorey
Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in my Member's statement, Hay River is desperately in need of two more doctors, namely a GP anesthesiologist and GP surgeon. This will alleviate the hearts of expecting mothers having to travel to Yellowknife a month ahead of their due date to give birth. Many of these mothers are having to pay that infamous co-payment as well I might add, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, these ladies have to uproot themselves from their families and their support systems and stay in Yellowknife until they give birth. In this day and age, I can't see how we can allow this to happen.
Would the Minister please advise if he is aware of exactly how much it costs to fly a pregnant mother from Hay River to Yellowknife and keep them here until they give birth including the flights, accommodations, meal costs and all the other costs that go with it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .
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Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Michael Miltenberger
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have that specific dollar figure, but I would estimate that it's in the thousands of dollars. Thank you.
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Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .
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Supplementary To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Paul Delorey
Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for that answer, but I would encourage the Minister to try to get a cost on that. I am told it's somewhere in the neighourhood of $4,000 for a mother to have to come to Yellowknife to give birth. Mr. Speaker, the Minister stated that there is $8.3 million currently assigned for 10 general practitioners. I assume this is extraordinary funding. Would the Minister please provide this House with a breakdown of how these 10 doctors will be distributed in terms of what communities these doctors will be serving in. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Supplementary To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .
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Further Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
Michael Miltenberger
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are three additional specialists going to Yellowknife. There are two for the Sahtu, two for the Dogrib, one for Deh Cho and the remainder we are devoting to Yellowknife. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 267
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .
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Supplementary To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
Paul Delorey
Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I didn't get the last one that he said, but it didn't seem to me that I heard Hay River in there. Would the Minister indicate why, of these 10 doctors, there are none slated for Hay River, the second largest community in the Territories with a demonstrated need for more doctors? Why would there be none for Hay River? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Supplementary To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .
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Further Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
Michael Miltenberger
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a result of the recently concluded negotiations with the general practitioners, there is going to be as well an additional sum of doctors over and above the existing complement that is going to be allocated across the territory and Hay River will be factored in there. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Your final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .
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Supplementary To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
Paul Delorey
Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in view of the demonstrated need in Hay River for two additional doctors, which would allow expectant mothers to give birth in Hay River, as well as the need for dental surgeries to continue in Hay River, will the Minister commit to providing the funding so that Hay River can acquire these two positions? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Supplementary To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
The Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .
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Further Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
Michael Miltenberger
Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the focus right now in the communities outside of Yellowknife and Inuvik has been on making sure we have adequate general practitioners and that is still the focus. We do commit to ensuring that Hay River, like Fort Smith, Yellowknife, Inuvik and Fort Simpson and the Deh Cho and the Dogrib have adequate doctor services. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Question 78-14(6): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.
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Tabled Document 22-14(6): Response To Petition 1-14(6) - NWT Beverage Container Recovery Program
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 268
Clerk Of The House
Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, in accordance with Rule 42(1), I wish to table a response to Petition 1-14(6) presented by the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake and responded to by the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development .
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Tabled Document 22-14(6): Response To Petition 1-14(6) - NWT Beverage Container Recovery Program
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Mr. Dent .
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Motion 5-14(6): Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Page 268
Charles Dent
Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Wednesday, February 26, 2003, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South that the Government of the Northwest Territories undertake the necessary work to draft and introduce a Family Violence Protection Act in the Legislative Assembly by June 2003 for consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Motion 5-14(6): Family Violence Protection Legislation
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Mr. Dent .
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Motion 4-14(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker, Carried
Item 16: Motions
Page 268
Charles Dent
Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh , that the Speaker be authorized to set such sitting hours as the Speaker, after consultation, deems fit to assist with the business before the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Motion 4-14(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker, Carried
Item 16: Motions
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
The motion is in order. To the motion.
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Motion 4-14(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker, Carried
Item 16: Motions
Page 268
Some Hon. Members
Question.
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Motion 4-14(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker, Carried
Item 16: Motions
Page 268
The Deputy Speaker
David Krutko
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Motion 3-14(6), Mr. McLeod . Motion 3-14(6) will stay on the order paper until tomorrow. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration of Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 3 , Bill 6 , Bill 7 , Bill 8 and committee reports 3-14(6), 4-14(6), 5-14(6) and 6-14(6) with Mr. Delorey in the chair.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
I call the committee to order. We have a number of items to discuss in Committee of the Whole. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent .
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Charles Dent
Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee continue consideration of Bill 3 and committee reports 3-14(6), 4-14(6) and 5-14(6) concurrently to first finish up the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and then move into the Department of Transportation.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Dent . The Chair is going to call a short break. We will come back with the Department of MACA.
---SHORT RECESS
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
I would like to call the committee back to order. We will continue with Municipal and Community Affairs. Does the Minister wish to bring any witnesses, Mr. Steen ?
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Does the committee agree? Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in, please. Mr. Minister, for the record, could you introduce your witnesses, please?
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on my right is Debbie DeLancey, deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and on my left is Sheila Bassi-Kellett, director of corporate affairs.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Minister Steen . Committee members will notice there has been an information item circled. That information was requested last week on sports and recreation and community allocation. I understand, Mr. Minister, you have some further clarification under capital, Mr. Steen .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on Friday when we left off under this underlined item activity, there were questions raised by Mr. Bell as to capital figures for the Rae water treatment plant and he was questioning the final figure, which showed the final figure of $1.775 million for the water treatment plant in Rae as a total, but in fact that figure should be $2.375 million and the reason for that, Mr. Chairman, I passed out a sheet explaining where the mistake was made. It comes under the Rae water treatment plant for prior years cost. It shows $325,000 when, in fact, that figure should be $925,000.
That would then require us to have a carry over in June of $600,000, which is not spent yet but then that brings the final figure in the end to $2.375 million. Mr. Chairman, while I am on the subject, there is also the same type of mistake in the solid waste disposal site for Rae Lakes, which is on the same page and shows a figure of $208,000. In fact that figure should be $308,000 because there is a carry over of $100,000 as well. We couldn't complete the permitting because we couldn't get the permit from Indian Affairs to do the job, due to land claims negotiations with the Dogrib.
So, the final figure on that line would be $863,000 rather than $763,000. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you Minister Steen . You left off Friday on the Municipal and Community Affairs, cap 6, total regional operations, $5.235 million.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Total department, $8.53 million.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Mr. Lafferty .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you. Just before we do a total, I think this is the last chance anybody gets. Just for clarification, the Minister did say that the agreements with those four communities, they would have agreements made with the hamlets and not with MACA instead of Public Works. I would just like to know if that's the case. Thank you.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Steen .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if I understand the question is related to water and sewer agreements with Public Works. Is that correct?
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Steen . Mr. Lafferty .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Right now, the four different communities have agreements with Public Works and Services. Are the agreements now going to be with MACA and the hamlet instead of Public Works and the hamlet? Thank you.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Minister Steen .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, we can't change the agreements from Public Works to MACA because MACA is funding the community to do the work. It is up to them at that time whether they want to sign an agreement with Public Works or whether they want to do the job themselves or whether they want to contract it out privately. It's entirely up to them. It's that type of arrangement that they have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 269
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Steen . Mr. Lafferty .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Right now we have agreements with Public Works and it says whether or not the hamlet agrees with it; when the new agreements don't come into place between Public Works and the hamlet, the new agreement will come into place automatically starting April 1st. If I understand it right, AOC had said that the surcharge should be no more than nine percent. We said no, there should be no surcharge on services between government agencies to the hamlets. Somewhere, somehow, we got our numbers crossed because the original price was 6 percent. Thank you.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Steen .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we did take into consideration the recommendations from the standing committees in relation to what percentage of administration fees they should be paying Public Works. Those communities that have existing agreements with Public Works would continue because of the existing agreements which are dated, I believe, 1988 show an administration fee of nine percent. Public Works reduced their administration fee proposal to nine percent, which is what is in existing agreements. In the case of Rae, we don't have an agreement anymore.
Public Works doesn't have an agreement because we turned the whole facility operation back to Public Works. A new agreement would have to be negotiated and we are in the process of negotiating with the community. MACA is involved, as well as Public Works and we are bearing in mind what the committee is recommending. However, we have to keep in mind that other communities are paying an administration fee of their own. In other words, every community receives money from us, MACA, to cover these administration fees through its water and sewer grants.
If we remove that from some communities, we would then be unfair to the other communities. That is our only hang-up with the recommendation from the standing committee, Mr. Chairman. At this point in time, Public Works is still in the negotiating process with Rae. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Minister Steen . Mr. Lafferty .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Leon Lafferty
North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the Minister is right that they are negotiating right now, and I think there are three other communities that are in the process of negotiating also, I would like to ask the Minister if he is willing to get the four communities together and try to get an agreement that will fit everyone. Although the work might be different, I think they are pretty similar with the contracts. All they had was the name changes on them. I have gone through two of them and they are word-for-word, the same. There are no changes. If the Minister agrees, then maybe that would be the best way to go.
Whether or not there is a contract in place, DPW is coming in and they are going to try the new rate. That is the letter that I have in my possession that was given from one of his staff to the hamlet. I think I left it upstairs. It says whether they have an agreement or not, they are going to go with the new rates and that is the high rates. Can the Minister guarantee that won't happen unless there is a new agreement? Thank you.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Steen .
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Vince Steen
Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am speaking as the Minister of MACA . It is my understanding that as Minister of MACA , that FMB gave direction to Public Works not to charge anything over nine percent. That's the understanding I have as the Minister of MACA . So I understand that's what Public Works has been working on. I also appreciate the recommendation from the Member that we have these meetings with the communities and we are planning that meeting already, so I really appreciate the suggestion and support from the Member. Thank you.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Steen . We will call out total department. Municipal and Community Affairs, total department, $8.053 million.
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Does the committee agree that consideration of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs estimates is concluded?
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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department Of Municipal And Community Affairs
Bill 3: Appropriation Act 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
The Chair
Paul Delorey
I would like to thank the Minister and witnesses for appearing.
We'll go on to the Department of Transportation. Does the Minister have any opening remarks? Mr. Handley .
Department Of Transportation
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minister's Opening Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 270
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Mr. Chairman, it is my pleasure to put before the Committee of the Whole the proposed main estimates budget for the Department of Transportation for the 2003-2004 fiscal year. The total operations budget for the fiscal year 2003-2004 is $76.521 million, an increase of seven percent from the 2002-2003 main estimates.
For the most part, the proposed main estimates for 2003-04 project the Department of Transportation carrying through on its present course in the delivery of its transportation programs and services. The operations and maintenance component of the budget proposes a modest increase of about $2 million. More than half of this increase comes as a result of the new collective agreement ratified with the Union of Northern Workers.
The present rate of growth in the territorial economy is having decided impacts on the Department of Transportation. Positively, the increase in industrial traffic has led to higher revenue projections of $500,000 for licence and permit fee collections. On the operations side, a forced growth adjustment is aimed at sustaining our standards of highway maintenance in the face of the greater traffic volumes.
The proposed budget for 2003-04 includes an additional $370,000 in anticipation of new legislation to amend the Motor Vehicles Act. The proposed amendments have been introduced and, modeled on programs developed in the southern provinces, are aimed at discouraging the incidence of impaired driving in the Northwest Territories.
Mr. Chairman, the department intends to continue its work in 2003-04 on developing an airport investment strategy that will lay out the critical improvements we need to make across the territorial airport system over the next 20 years. The department also intends to continue exploring the commercial opportunities that transcontinental polar air routes might have to offer the Northwest Territories, such as intercontinental air cargo handling and the promotion of international tourism.
Continuing changes in air regulations, procedures and practices, are not only likely but also for certain. Over the next few years, for instance, Transport Canada intends to phase in the physical inspection of every piece of passenger baggage boarding airplanes at major airports in Canada. The imperative for strict airport and airline security has put new demands on our airport system both for current operations and future planning.
The limited availability of new capital dollars leaves a modest budget for new infrastructure projects. The proposed main estimates show a capital program of $27.3 million in the 2003-2004 fiscal year; $10.8 million of this comes from federal sources.
The Department of Transportation continues to pursue third-party sources of capital investment. The department has secured $4.2 million in 2003-04 under the federal airport capital assistance plan for improvements to our airport infrastructure. It has also obtained $2.25 million from the federal strategic highways infrastructure program.
In May of last year, the Government of the Northwest Territories submitted a plan, Corridors for Canada, to the federal government for funding through its strategic infrastructure fund. Over the past several months, the Government of the Northwest Territories and our private sector partners have lobbied the federal government vigorously to get what we consider our fair share of the strategic infrastructure fund. Although it falls far short of the investments proposed in the Corridors for Canada plan, the department has received a commitment from the federal government of $20 million for new infrastructure projects over the next four years.
Last year, with the help of a $3.8 million contribution from the federal Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, the Department of Transportation was able to accelerate the completion of its Mackenzie Valley winter road bridges program. The program installed seven permanent bridges along the winter road system to the Sahtu region and its five off-road communities. The new bridges have added almost a month to the operating season of the Sahtu winter road network. We have recently submitted a new proposal to DIAND for further improvements to the Mackenzie Valley winter road system. We believe the federal department will respond positively over the next few months.
The Transportation budget proposed for 2003-04 includes a one-time $1 million program for the improvement of the access roads that link communities to the all-weather public highway system. This continues the $2.5 million that the department allocated to these access roads last year. This one-time program should help to upgrade these essential community links.
Smaller scale projects for building and improving community marine facilities and local access roads have been positive initiatives for developing community transportation infrastructure. The budget for 2003-04 proposes an increase of $100,000 for the community marine program to $315,000 and a $250,000 increase for the community local access road program to $837,000. These programs provide communities with short-term economic benefits that deliver better local transportation for the long term.
The Department of Transportation will continue to work in partnership with the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation Ltd. for the construction of a bridge across the Mackenzie River at Fort Providence. Last year the department worked with the Fort Providence Alliance Group to confirm the viability of the original proposal and to refine it into a practical partnership arrangement.
There is $250,000 in this budget proposed for the Deh Cho Bridge project. It will enable the department to retain the technical-professional advice it will need as it works toward a binding agreement. We plan to conclude an agreement by the third quarter of 2003-04.
The growing volume of traffic generated by the North's economic activity affects all modes of transportation. The greater frequency of ferry crossings, more aircraft landings, higher passenger volumes and a record level of commercial vehicle traffic presents the department with tremendous challenges. This budget proposal strives to match the public's demands for transportation services with the government's requirement for fiscal discipline.
In closing, Mr. Chairman, in these proposed main estimates, the Department of Transportation sets out how it intends to maintain and, even more, to improve the safety and reliability of the public transportation system. This budget achieves a careful balance in its allocation of limited public funds amongst many pressing transportation objectives. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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minister's Opening Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 271
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Handley . I will call on the chair of the standing committee for comments. Mr. Roland .
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 271
Floyd Roland
Inuvik Boot Lake
The Department of Transportation provides for the safe, accessible and reliable movement of people and goods throughout the Northwest Territories. The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development met with the Minister of Transportation and his staff on January 14, 2003 to review the Department of Transportation's draft main estimates for 2003-2004.
Committee members made note of a net $3.02 million increase in operations expense for the department.
The department advised the net increase is due to: $1.711 million in overall changes to the department's amortization estimates; $172,000 to fund motor vehicle registry services in Yellowknife; $250,000 to fund a design review and legal work required for the drafting of the final agreement for the Deh Cho Bridge proposal; $167,000 in incremental costs associated with the administration of the Community Aerodrome Radio Stations, or CARS, on behalf of Nav Canada, net effect is nil as these costs are recovered from the third party; $370,000 to fund the implementation of the new impaired driving legislation; and, $350,000 in infrastructure contributions.
The $350,000 in infrastructure contributions is comprised of $100,000 for community marine facilities and $250,000 for community access roads.
The committee also noted a net increase of $7.845 million in capital expenditures for the department from its business plans.
This net increase is the result of: a correction or deletion of $455,000 in capital funding for high intensity approach lights that had already been included in the budget for the Inuvik airport's taxiway and apron upgrade project; an additional $4 million from the Canada strategic highway infrastructure fund for Highway No. 8, kilometre zero to 259, various Inuvik; a further $3.8 million from the same fund for Mackenzie River road bridges, various Inuvik; a reduction of $500,000 from $1.3 million to $800,000 for Highway No. 4, kilometre zero to 69.2, various North Slave; and an additional $1 million for public highway access roads, various territorial.
Ferry Maintenance
It is generally accepted that proper preventative and scheduled maintenance would result in reduced operational and repair costs. Committee members suggested when replacing engines for ferries, either new or rebuilt engines be purchased. Adopting this value for money approach would be more economical in the long run.
The committee noted that many of the current ferry engines may be obsolete. Ongoing maintenance for engines that should be replaced is unreliable and inevitably more expensive. Long term savings from the use of new or rebuilt engines may result in funding for other essential programs and services.
Highway Maintenance And Snow Removal
Timely snow and ice removal on the highway system is essential to public safety. It was brought to the attention of a number of committee members that on some highway sections, snow and ice removal only occurs during regular work hours. Travel takes place at all hours of the day and throughout the entire year.
The committee suggested to the department that snow and ice clearing be done as soon as possible on all sections of the highway system to ensure public safety, even on weekends and holidays, and outside regular work hours.
Apprenticeship And Other Training Programs
Training and apprenticeship programs for Northerners have remained a leading concern for members of the standing committee. These programs should be easily accessible for all Northerners. However, committee members pointed out that apprenticeship and other training programs are almost non-existent in smaller communities and are mostly concentrated in regional centres. The committee is of the position that apprenticeship and other training programs should be available in all communities, regardless of population.
Committee members were also concerned about inadequate funding levels for training programs. The government's Maximizing Northern Employment Program, or MNE, offers very limited funding. Furthermore, many people are not even aware of the training opportunities that are available. The committee recommended that the government develop a more effective communications strategy that lets people know what training programs are available in the Northwest Territories and equally important, in their own region.
Within the department, employees must pass their one-year probationary period to obtain any significant training. Barriers to training must be eliminated or at least reduced. The availability of training and other educational programs contributes to recruitment and retention success and better overall program and service delivery. To these ends, the committee suggests the department encourage its staff to take better advantage of training and other educational opportunities.
Readable Signage
Readability contributes to overall safety for the travelling public, especially on our highway system. A number of committee members pointed out that the lettering size on the government's current road signs is not large enough and is difficult to read from a moving vehicle. The committee encouraged the department to make timely efforts to improve and replace the signage on our territorial highway system.
Public Highway Access Roads
The Department of Transportation received $1 million in funding for the development and expansion of public highway access roads for 2003-2004 from its 2003-2006 business plans. The department is responsible for a number of access roads that connect communities to the highway network. These access roads are an integral part of the highway system. During the committee review of the department's main estimates, Members requested additional information from the department, including a list of communities that are eligible and the work that is planned for 2003-2004.
In a document provided to the committee, the department informed the Members, that eligible communities include Kakisa, Hay River Reserve, West Channel (Hay River), Fort McPherson, Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte, all of which require additional upgrading and/or chipsealing. The department added that these planned improvements would improve access road safety, and decrease highway maintenance costs by reducing the blading, grader repairs, granular and dust control requirements. Improvements to public highway access roads in all of the eligible communities are planned for the upcoming fiscal year.
Committee members observed that while some funding is available to make improvements to public highway access roads, more money is needed to complete the various projects. The committee concluded that more funding must be found but not from internal reallocation. Committee members suggested if the government receives new funding, a portion of it should be redirected towards the public highway access road program. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development's report.
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Roland . Does the Minister wish to bring in witnesses? Mr. Handley .
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would.
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Does the committee agree?
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in, please. Mr. Minister, please introduce your witnesses for the record.
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
Joe Handley
Weledeh
Mr. Chairman, with me are Peter Vician, deputy minister of Transportation; and, Lynn Cook, director of corporate services. Thank you.
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Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Handley . General comments. Mr. Braden .
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general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
Bill Braden
Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Somewhat related here, especially on the capital side is the potential development going on in Nunavut with the Bathurst port and road development. I believe I asked some questions during the budget review last time within the last year, Mr. Chairman, just to see what the status of this project is, what our government's involvement is with it and what is the status of this fairly significant piece of transportation infrastructure for the North. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 273
The Chair
Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Handley .
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