Debates of April 20th, 1999

This is page numbers 211 - 240 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was business .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

College Graduates

Custody Of Roberta Vaneltsi's Children

Report Of The Minister's Forum On Education

Recognition Of Dan Marion As Commissioner Of The Nwt

Economic Potential In The Liard Valley

Support For Roberta Vaneltsi

Class Sizes In The Nwt

Northern Accord Negotiations

Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Workers' Pension Policy

Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Point Of Privilege

Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Linking Education And Employment

Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Vocational Training In High Schools

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Budget Reply 1-13(7)

Committee Report 1-13(7): Report On The 1999-2002 Business Plans And 1999-2000 Main Estimates

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Erasmus , Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Rabesca , Honourable Floyd Roland , Honourable Vince Steen .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 211

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry . Good afternoon. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 36-13(7): College Graduates

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 211

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, we have great opportunities in the Northwest Territories. As our economy expands, there is a growing demand for skilled employees with post-secondary education. In the public sector, there is a high demand for health care and teaching professionals. There is a broad range of needs in the private sector, particularly in the oil and gas and diamond industries. Across all sectors, we need people who are qualified in the trades, with technical and professional skills and with information technology skills.

If northerners are going to take advantage of these job opportunities, they will need to pursue post-secondary education. The good news is that many NWT residents are attending college and university programs, through Aurora College and also at universities and colleges in the south. There are currently 1,474 NWT students accessing the Student Financial Assistance Program. With their new skills, they will be ready to pursue the job possibilities available here at home.

Mr. Speaker, this past weekend, I had the pleasure of attending the graduation ceremonies at Thebacha Campus of Aurora College in Fort Smith. I had a chance to meet with the graduates who are about to enter our workforce, with the benefit of their new knowledge. In the weeks to come, more students will graduate from the campuses in Inuvik and Yellowknife. As well, many northern students will be completing their diplomas and degrees at other institutions.

Mr. Speaker, it takes hard work, long hours and perseverance to make it to graduation. I invite all Members of this House to join with me in offering congratulations to all the northern graduates and to their families who gave them support them along the way. Thank you.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 36-13(7): College Graduates

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 211

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Member's Statement 102-13(7): Custody Of Roberta Vaneltsi's Children

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 211

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over two years ago I made a Member's statement regarding the child custody matter involving the removal of Roberta Vaneltsi's two children from Canada. To date, it has been almost five years since the father of Roberta's children took them to the Czech Republic and refused to return the children to the Northwest Territories to their mother. The children have been away from their mother since they were eight and five years old. The oldest will be turning 13 on May 5 and the youngest is now ten years old. Mr. Speaker, their mother Roberta, has been trying vigorously to bring the children home. They have said repeatedly that they want to come home.

The Czech Republic is now party to the Hague Convention, that means that the treaty obligations to return abducted children below the age of 16 applies as of a year ago. However, Mr. Speaker, the Czech Republic only recently ratified the convention and it has been well over a year since Roberta's children were wrongly removed from her custody. After one year the court has still been unable to order the children returned, because the person restrainer filed returning documents stating that the children were settled in a new environment.

The Czech Republic must participate in the return of the children unless the children refuse to return, the court considers them old enough, satisfactory emotionally, to say for themselves.

Mr. Speaker, Roberta's children have expressed a wish to return home and under the convention, that is satisfactory for them to do so. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 102-13(7): Custody Of Roberta Vaneltsi's Children

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 211

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta , is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko , you have unanimous consent. Please conclude your statement.

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Member's Statement 102-13(7): Custody Of Roberta Vaneltsi's Children

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 211

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, Roberta Vaneltsi has been told that the convention is a private civil law mechanism to deal with the matters that are between parents and not the governments. However, if one country does not abide by the convention then the only recourse that a person has is legal action. Therefore, I call upon the government to take immediate action to support Roberta Vaneltsi in her efforts to bring her children home. First, Mr.

Speaker, this government must press upon the federal government to urgently obtain intervention status when Roberta presents her case in the Czech Republic. If possible, this government should do all it can to intervene on her behalf as

well. Finally, Ms. Vaneltsi is in desperate financial need of support from this government to bring her children back to the Northwest Territories where they belong. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 102-13(7): Custody Of Roberta Vaneltsi's Children

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 212

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 103-13(7): Report Of The Minister's Forum On Education

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 212

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My comments today are on the Minister's Forum on Education and the report. Mr. Speaker, I have to say that I was very surprised that so much emphasis was placed on doing the consulting work and preparing a report and creating a forum by the former Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , but that the budget yesterday did not include and did not address the recommendations adequately with funding. It is bothersome to me that such extensive consultation has taken place, and now many of the recommendations cannot be implemented because of the lack of dollars.

Of course, the current Minister, Mr. Miltenberger , I feel for him, because in many ways, he has been saddled with the problem. Now I do have to emphasize, though, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister states that 32 are non-monetary and I think we can certainly debate that because I see it a little different way.

Let me just quote from the report and what the report really says - the present strategic plan is excellent, but attaining the goal of the strategic plan is impossible with current resources. It emphasizes the need for additional human and material resources and that message was loud and clear in each of the 11 communities visited. The single most common issue raised was the current educational funding level and how it affects the education system. The lack of funding, of course, has resulted in an increase in classroom sizes, decreased support services for inclusive schooling, and limitations have been placed on optional courses once operated as part of the school program.

There has been a great deal of stress factor added in the education process which has been further compounded by the addition of new programs and no new funds. New programs, such as additional early childhood development programs, new curricula and community high school extension programs. In reading the report, Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the most important elements, of course, are those that do require funding, in other words, the other 12 recommendations. I guess I would be curious how the Minister can address those 12 that require funding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 103-13(7): Report Of The Minister's Forum On Education

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 212

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Member's Statement 104-13(7): Recognition Of Dan Marion As Commissioner Of The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 212

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this morning we witnessed the swearing in of the new Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. This is a proud moment for my region and all of our NWT residents. Over the years Mr. Marion has been there to help. If anyone needs a helping hand Mr. Marion is there. This is how Mr. Marion lives and works. He is a strong and personable man that will make the NWT proud to have him as our Commissioner.

During his speech Mr. Marion mentioned how the different groups across the Northwest Territories must now see through our differences and concentrate on building a new territory, that is truly representative of all our people. This is something that I believe in and I am sure that the rest of my colleagues are also in agreement. I hope that we as a whole Legislative Assembly can work together to achieve this goal. This goal will take time, however; we must strive to achieve this, as it is our future generations that will depend on us to make this goal a reality. In closing I would like again to congratulate Dan Marion on his appointment as Commissioner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 104-13(7): Recognition Of Dan Marion As Commissioner Of The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 212

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement 105-13(7): Economic Potential In The Liard Valley

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 212

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated yesterday, I had the good fortune to spend a couple of days in Fort Liard, one of the six communities in my constituency, last week. I was very impressed with the work that people at Liard are doing to take advantage of the development opportunities in their region and attempting to build a healthy and productive community. During my stay there I met with leaders and the public to discuss important economic initiatives being undertaken in the Liard River Valley.

The visit also afforded me a better understanding of the challenges faced by the band, businesses and residents as they try to gain a full measure of benefits from economic opportunities in their back yard.

Mr. Speaker, the Liard River Valley is blessed with an abundance of forests and hydrocarbon resources. The people are working hard to build the businesses and skills required to meet the demands of this thriving forest industry, the oil and gas exploration industries, tourism and other economic development opportunities. I would like to take this opportunity to identify some of the successes and encourage the community to continue on and take advantage of these opportunities.

Under the leadership of the Chief, Harry Deneron, and the band council, the Acho Dene Koe Band has focused on the areas of job training, employment and improving social well-being in the face of the development activities. They have Beaver Enterprises Ltd., which provides heavy equipment and camp services, Deh Cho Air charter lines, Deh Cho Helicopters and Liard Valley Fuel Centre Ltd.

Mr. Speaker, Fort Liard also has several First Nations, Metis and entrepreneurs who have developed their businesses there as well. I came away from Fort Liard with renewed optimism. The people of this small but vibrant community are meeting the challenges of development head-on and fostering businesses which will not only benefit their community, but the territory as a whole. With that, I would like to encourage and support people in Fort Liard who are facing these challenges head-on. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 105-13(7): Economic Potential In The Liard Valley

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 213

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Member's Statement 106-13(7): Support For Roberta Vaneltsi

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 213

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak to an issue which is not particular or specific to my constituency or the people I represent, but something which I am very concerned about and a matter raised by Mr. Krutko here today. Mr. Speaker, far be it from this government to become involved in a specific domestic issue on behalf of a specific constituent. However, the situation experienced by Roberta Vaneltsi, having her children virtually kidnaped, is a desperate situation.

I can only say that, as a mother, if I had to project into the future as to what the worst thing that could possibly happen to me in my life when you consider the tragedies that can befall people, the worst thing that I can imagine would be to have my children removed from me, have them in a place where I could not see whether they were well or whether they were being cared for and not be able to contact or communicate with them. It would be similar to what people experience when their children are taken and they do not really have a concept of whether they are dead or alive or what has happened to them.

It would be continual torment.

My question is, to whom can a woman turn in a situation like this, if not the government? This is a matter of international magnitude. No doubt the situation would be frustrating enough if these children had been removed to another country, or even if they were on this continent it would be frustrating enough. Here this single mother has to fight with the issues of red tape and international convention, something that is far above and beyond any of the capabilities of anyone in this room, even, I would suggest.

So, I would like to suggest that we as a government, although we deal with broader-based issues, I still believe that we need to have a compassionate and attentive attitude toward things of this nature as well. I would like to say that is why I have seconded this motion of Mr. Krutko 's and would encourage all Members of this House to support this woman, Roberta Vaneltsi, in this very unfortunate circumstance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 106-13(7): Support For Roberta Vaneltsi

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 213

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to follow up from my statement with some questions in regard to the Ministerial Forum on Education. The area that I wish to look at and to ask some questions is in the pupil/teacher ratio area. First I would like to make reference to some facts, Mr. Speaker, and that is related to class sizes because it is generally well-recorded that students in smaller classes consistently out-perform students in regular classes.

In smaller classes more time is spent on curriculum, the material is absorbed faster and in more depth, and students who need special services are identified easier in smaller classes and it reduces long-term costs. There are also movements by other jurisdictions across Canada to limit class sizes. So, my first question for the Minister of Education , the Honourable Mr. Miltenberger , is could he tell us is there a pupil/teacher ratio mandate for class sizes in the territories?

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Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but agree with the Member's comments about the need for smaller classes. Currently the pupil/teacher ratio is at 18 to 1. It is too high. Is there any other sort of mandatory requirement that it is supposed to adhere to, I cannot really say. If there is, I am not aware of it. I can tell you what it is and what it was over the last five years and it has gone steadily upward. I think the intent is to keep it as low as possible. I am hoping that from here on in it is only going to go down. Thank you.

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Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do understand that the pupil/teacher ratio is strictly a method by which funding is provided to boards and that the classroom size is not necessarily dictated by that. It is left up to the boards and I wonder if the Minister could address that question, the relationship of the pupil/teacher ratio to class sizes.

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Supplementary To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the boards and divisional boards are funded on the basis of enrolment through a block funding arrangement. It is based on the pupil/teacher ratio. It is one of the components used in calculating that figure. Once the money is given to the divisional boards and the DEAs, then they have a significant amount of latitude under the new legislation in terms of how they want to do that, in terms of classes - do they want to have student counsellors, so there is a considerable amount of flexibility at the community level in terms of how that money is spent. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 213

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for the answer. So, it really is a freedom of the boards to allow classes to be larger and in many cases, no doubt, it does accede the 1 to 18, but additionally, we have the problem, Mr.

Speaker, of the diversity of the classes. They may be teaching at three or four different levels. It is extremely difficult for teachers, the size, no doubt, is beyond the 18 to 1 in many cases, but also the diversity. I guess my question, Mr. Speaker, would be how does our government monitor that the boards do stick to a limited number of students per class?

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Supplementary To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is currently in the process of developing an accountability framework that will apply to divisional boards and DEAs to address some of those very specific issues that the Member has raised. This is currently underway. The Member raises a good point and it is one of the factors that are going to be included in this accountability framework, graduation rates, class sizes, how the money is effectively spent in communities and by the divisional boards. That will be one of the factors addressed. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. I am glad that is underway because it is of concern and we do need to address it. I had understood that we did not have such statistics available to us at the moment. Could the Minister also tell us if he will address, in this compilation, the whole question of the diversity of classrooms because you may have 18, meet the ratio, but still have a tremendous diversity in there of different levels that need to be taught? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again, it is a legitimate concern that we are, as well, concerned about as a department.

The issue of social paths, special needs and inclusive schooling approach, those are factors that are taken under serious consideration in the short term as we look at the money we do have and how we are spending it and, of course, more specifically in the longer term as we look for increased revenues to, in fact, address those issues, lower the classroom sizes, be able to pay better attention to special needs and then the issue of social paths is another issue that has come up, I know, in committee. As well, it is a concern, I think, by parents in general, the quality of education in that regard.

Those are all important points that the Member has raised and they are going to be given serious consideration.

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Further Return To Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Question 79-13(7): Class Sizes In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, especially in regard to the resource sector. We have heard a lot of talk of the question about trying to generate new revenues in the Northwest Territories and the possibility of the amount of money that the federal government gets for royalties and other things. I would like to ask the Minister what is happening in regard to the progress of the Northern Accord negotiations? There was no mention of it in the budget speech, yet the aboriginal groups play a big role.

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Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Resources , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 214

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In January of this year, Premier Jim Antoine announced and offered to meet with the aboriginal leaders, chiefs, members of the Aboriginal Summit to discuss the possibility of advancing the devolution file, that is the ownership and management of northern resources, northern lands and waters. The proposal suggested that we would look at joint ownership of lands and resources and the sharing of revenues as essential elements for the aboriginal leaders to consider.

The Premier and myself have met with the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in, members of the Sahtu Secretariat and the Sahtu Dene Council. We met with representatives of the Deh Cho, Dogrib Treaty 11, Akaitcho territory leaders, members of the Aboriginal Summit, and the Aboriginal Summit itself is still a file that needs to be clarified with one-on-one discussions with a number of individuals; however, it is my view that there is movement toward entertaining setting up an intergovernmental forum that could be seen as the avenue through which progress could be made on the devolution file.

It would require probably some work on the political protocol, so that aboriginal governments and this government would outline how we would relate to one another, what items and subject matters we would work on together and some mention of a process that could be used to develop that relationship and a work plan. Devolution, economic strategy, would be specific items, I think, that would flow from such an agreement, such an arrangement.

At this time, as I understand it, there are officials meeting to look at a possible agenda that could begin, for instance, with a chiefs meeting, which could lead to an intergovernmental forum sometime this spring. A chiefs meeting is tentatively scheduled for the first week of May. That is the stage at which the talks are.

In relation to the specific reference in the Gwich'in claim to the economic measures, it is our proposal that we would go beyond what is called for in that

chapter by offering to develop, in partnership with the Gwich'in and with every aboriginal group in the valley, an overall economic strategy so that the entire resources of government, every program, every resource that this government has, could be linked in support of whatever economic strategy the aboriginal peoples choose to design for themselves. Thank you.

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Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not too sure where to go with this. I think it is kind of hard to understand exactly, this commitment is implemented in the land claim agreement which is constitutionally protected. There is an agreement signed between the federal government and this government for the Northern Accord to transfer resources to this government and to the aboriginal groups in the Northwest Territories. Yet, Mr. Speaker, it is clearly stated they shall be involved in all negotiations in the development of a Northern Accord. Have the aboriginal groups been involved with the discussion between this government and the government in Ottawa in regard to Indian affairs?

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Supplementary To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

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Further Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As most people know, there are presently negotiations going on for self-government agreements, but there is also a question about costs to implement those agreements. In the case of the Northern Accord agreements, a lot of the aboriginal groups are looking at the whole area of generating revenues for themselves to implement the self-government agreements. Yet, Mr.

Speaker, there is no real statement anywhere in the budget or upon this government in regard to having the aboriginal groups have that ability to take on those own revenues and resources from their regions or their ridings where those land claims have been settled. I would like to ask the Minister has there been anything in writing that says this government will take over lands and resources in the Northwest Territories?

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Supplementary To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this has been a point that seems to be difficult to get clear or get across to everyone, and it is unfortunate. What the Premier has been saying, and the Minister of Finance and myself, since January, is that we are prepared to look at sharing the ownership of the lands and resources in the north with aboriginal governments. So the Government of the Northwest Territories with the aboriginal governments should propose together to assume ownership of resources of the north, that is the land and the sub-surface resources, including the waters.

We have also proposed, on a number of occasions, that we are prepared to discuss sharing the revenue that would flow from the development of these resources. We are prepared to discuss sharing the revenue and that the revenue should be shared between aboriginal governments and the Government of the Northwest Territories. That is what Premier Jim Antoine , Finance Minister Todd, now Minister Dent , and myself as the lead Minister have been offering as a basis to start discussions with aboriginal governments since January. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to the whole concept of sharing, it sounds great, but at the end of the day, usually when you share something there is a breakdown of how you break down a dollar or whatnot, the distribution of what percent each group gets. Does the Minister have any documentation to clearly stipulate or basically lay out the sharing mechanism, how it is going to be distributed and exactly how it is going to be allocated to the aboriginal groups and the different claimant groups that presently have a land claims agreement in regard to certain rights for resources within those areas?

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Supplementary To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 215

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been very careful in the way we make the overtures and the approaches. As you know, based on what was written about a visit that I made to Calgary with the Premier at the beginning of this year, certain members of the Aboriginal Summit abruptly called for my resignation and that of the Premier as well, based on what they perceived for me to have said based on the newspaper article. We have said to the Aboriginal Summit, and we have said to the Inuvialuit and the

Gwich'in leaders, the chiefs of the Sahtu and the Sahtu Secretariat earlier this year that we are offering to share the ownership of land and resources with them. We are offering to share the revenues from subsurface resources with them.

How do we do it? How much is their share? We have not done any work, not even preliminary work, to look at that because it is, at this time, a suggestion. We would not want the aboriginal leaders to think that this is a preplanned, pre-programmed agenda that we are offering to work with them. We can compile with them the information needed so they can make decisions about what should be the mechanism for sharing of revenues and whether it should be done region by region, whether it should be done as a general interest, whatever approach it is, it will be done through joint discussions. So, Mr.

Speaker, there are no documents, there is no preliminary research done on this. We are waiting for a positive response, a definitive response from the aboriginal governments, and we are proceeding and waiting to move with them as they would indicate. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Question 80-13(7): Northern Accord Negotiations

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Before we continue on, I would like to welcome and recognize the deputy Sergeant-at-Arms, Mr. Guy Gonneville. Welcome to the Assembly. I understand it is your birthday, too, so happy birthday.

--Applause

Oral questions. Mr. Henry .

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Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Public Service Act, regarding the NWT Power Corporation employees' union representation. Mr. Speaker, it has dawned on me again that life has just one circle and I intend to demonstrate what I mean by those words.

Concerns were brought to my attention regarding the dissatisfaction of unionized employees of the NWT Power Corporation regarding their representation by the Union of Northern Workers. Originally when I received these concerns, I wrote to the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, which is Mr. Dent . He responded by indicating that the matter of representation of bargaining unit employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories would be best addressed by the Minister responsible for the Public Service Act, who was Mr. Todd at the time. I would have liked to address these concerns to Mr.

Todd, but Mr. Todd is no longer in that position, so I have come full circle now and I would address the concerns back to Mr. Dent .

Could the Minister responsible for the Public Service Act indicate if it is possible for a group of unionized employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories, in particular, the NWT Power Corporation to have separate representation from the association other than the Union of Northern Workers? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am advised that under the Public Service Act it would be necessary if the employees in the NWT Power Corporation bargaining unit did wish to have separate representation, would write to me proving unconditional support among the members for a new bargaining agent. We would then consider amendments to the NWT Public Service Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Dent , for that answer. Just a simple question, Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware of any costs that would be involved by the Union of Northern Workers other than the time to write the letter, would there be any additional costs to perform this wish of the employees? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be somewhat surprised if the UNW were to write the letter, because it would be on behalf of a group of employees asking to replace them. I am unsure if there would be any costs involved. However, in a previous answer, I indicated that the workers should show unconditional support for a change, when in fact, I meant unequivocal. There should be some clear method of demonstrating to me that the entire group of employees, or a significant majority of them, do favour a change. I do not know if there would be any costs associated with doing so.

However, it may be necessary to demonstrate that it had been a free choice for everybody. I cannot think of any tremendous costs that would be involved in demonstrating such support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister accept a petition with a covering letter as sufficient grounds for investigating this further? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 216

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would certainly consider that a clear indication of the signatories' support. However, before receiving such a petition, I will not make a commitment as to how I would respond. Basically, if I receive a formal request I would advise Members of the Legislature that we would consider amendments to the Public

Service Act. The issue would also have to come to the floor of this House for amendments to the act before it could be addressed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Question 81-13(7): Nwtpc Employees Union Status

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board and it has to do with widows' pensions. I was wondering if the Minister could please tell us what the current policy of the WCB is when an injured worker receives a pension, and then is deceased and the pension then goes to his spouse, what is the policy of the WCB at this time with respect to if and when the widow remarries? Thank you.

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Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is an issue that I believe all Members are aware of, they have all been copied the same letter that I received. Currently the legislation that governs WCB prevents WCB from paying widows' pensions to a widow if she remarries. However, there is currently a court case underway. Other jurisdictions have already gone to court and this has been deemed unconstitutional and has been changed. There is a court case currently underway in my understanding in the north, that may, in fact, bring the same change to us.

Otherwise we are looking at a change in the legislation of the WCB which Members all know now that we are tied with our colleagues from Nunavut. Right now we are precluded by the legislation, but it is a need that has to be addressed. Thank you.

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Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister please confirm whether or not the NWT is the only Canadian jurisdiction which now terminates survivors' benefits where the spouse is remarried?

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can confirm that we are a jurisdiction that currently does that, whether we are the only one in Canada, I cannot tell the Member that. I can commit to get that information for her though.

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do believe that we are the only jurisdiction in Canada that has this legislation in place and I think this is probably rather archaic in this day and age. I do not understand why we would have legislation that is out of step with what other provinces had proved to be unconstitutional and not in keeping with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I would like to ask the Minister, why are we waiting as a northern jurisdiction for the results of a court case if this has already been proven to be unacceptable in other jurisdictions?

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, the WCB has been working on a rewrite of their legislation in anticipation of the political time when it could be brought forward because there are a host of areas like the widows' pensions that should be brought up to date. I am just on my way out, in fact, at 3:00 p.m., for briefings with the Minister from Nunavut responsible for the WCB. This is one of the issues on our agenda, the need to, in fact, bring forward, at least on a temporary basis, legislation that would change that particular issue in regard to widows' pensions.

I ask the Members to keep in mind that we now have to work through two jurisdictions, so it is going to be critical that Nunavut agrees as well to go ahead with identical legislation. It is an issue and we are going to do our best to resolve that in the short-term. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mrs. Groenewegen , I was not aware that there was a court case in progress. Can I ask for the cooperation of the Members regarding court cases in other jurisdictions. There are certain issues in which it is national in scope, so what we say here does influence what happens in other jurisdictions, as it did for the nurses, the transfer of health issues. There was a court case in that incidence which we could not discuss in the House. I would caution the Members to perhaps not make reference to certain cases. As soon as you mention a court case, of course, red lights flash over here on this desk and I have to watch that we do not go beyond influencing the courts. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will refrain from mentioning that and just speak about the anticipated updating of the legislation then and would ask Mr. Miltenberger if it is the WCB's intention to amend this legislation and when they do that, will they make this legislation retroactive to widows who may have lost their pension in previous years while this legislation was in effect? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

You have used up your third and final supplementary, two questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 217

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the Minister responsible for the WCB , it is my intention to, in fact, bring forward amendments to the legislation that will address the issue of widows' pensions. I am not in a position to speak specifically to the issue of whether or not we could make it retroactive, but I will be finding out very soon and it will be on hopefully, the legislative agenda that I can bring forward to this House once it is approved by Cabinet. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus .

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I was going to ask a question in the same vein, but considering that it is under consideration of the courts, I will refrain.

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Further Return To Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Question 82-13(7): Workers' Pension Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes .

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Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be again for the Minister of Education , Mr. Miltenberger . This time I would like to again address the Minister's Forum on Education with regard to resources that are available in the classroom and to the teachers. Mr. Speaker, we have situations where new programs are introduced to the school system, but it seems that in many cases that adequate funding and resources are not supplied.

I would like to make reference to a situation where we introduced the new math program and allocated a total of $350,000 to that program to introduce the new math program throughout the territories. The allocation, of course, was split amongst many jurisdictions. In one case, for example, one small school board had to introduce the program and it cost $100,000 but their only allocation was $30,000 to do this. My question for the Minister is, how does the department ensure that when a new program is introduced, they have a method of calculating the allocation of funds to deliver that program? Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

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Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the school financing framework looks at enrolment, the salaries required, the size of the community and it covers issues like administration and school services, instructional staff, operational costs, student transportation, inclusive schooling, consultants, southern placements, so there is a whole host of factors there considered when formulas are worked out for individual divisional education councils. It is a fairly complex formula, is broken out into percentages. Those factors are all considered as well as the costs that the Member indicated. Thank you.

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Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

I appreciate the list of facts, but other facts, Mr. Speaker, indicate that there is inadequate funding and I referred earlier to three particular programs and certainly that is born out by the, People, Our Focus for the Future report, the Minister's Forum on Education, the constant comment is inadequate resources.

While I appreciate the criteria that the department uses, the reality is that they are not providing adequate funding and we are setting these programs up, it is like any business, if I am going to expand my business and do a new program and the adequate funding is not there, it will fail and this is unfortunately what we are facing here in the territory. We are introducing, and I referred to three new programs, the extension of high school programs in communities. How are we ensuring that adequate funding is being provided to those communities? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no argument that education would benefit by additional funds. The Member has on his desk the Main Estimates, he heard the comments in the budget speech by the Minister of Finance . It is very clearly laid out what the budget is for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. If the Member could assist and suggest to me where he would think we could take money from out of this budget and get agreement to move it to education, I would be only to happy to look at that.

I do not know what his suggestions would be, does he want to look at highways, does he want to cut capital at this point without new revenues, the budget we have is the money we have to operate. I appreciate the Member's concern, we have put in $2 million out of our supplementary reserve into education for investing in people and working together to deal with student employment. I would appreciate, if the Member has specific suggestions, I would be only to happy to entertain them, but at this point I have no other revenue to offer except what has been placed in the Budget Address and in these Main Estimates.

Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am no magician either of saying, well take it from here or there, but that was not my point. My point is that new programs have been introduced in the past without adequate funding. I think that is the area I am concentrating on is why do we do that. I guess my message to the Minister is, let us not get into a situation of introducing new programs and we do not provide the funding because we know ahead of time that they will fail.

I would like to take the Main Estimates the same as the Minister and say, well take it from here or there, but we cannot do that and I appreciate that, but I am not sitting over there introducing the programs. I am sitting over here saying that was wrong. I would like the Minister to address the question of, will he introduce any more new programs without further funding? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 218

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated when I first came over here, but before I knew that I was going to be Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , that I am interested in and my focus is going to be consolidation and bringing to a close issues and initiatives that were already underway. There are no plans for any significant new initiatives. As the Member indicated, we are very cognizant of the need to have the revenue to finance the existing system let alone bring in a bunch of new programs when there is no money. So, I can assure the Member that we are going to be very, very careful and temperate and considerate in how we move ahead as a department. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I always like to digest the words that are used. There are no plans for significant new initiatives. Can the, and I am concerned about that, because you know those words later on will be, well we said no significant new initiatives, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister assure me that there would be no new initiatives without adequate funding? As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Speaker, we are doomed to failure unless we ensure adequate funding. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am somewhat saddened by how cynical and jaded my colleague, Mr. Ootes , has become in such a short period of time having sat beside him for three and a half years, but let me reassure the Member that there are no changes, there are no new programs on the books, anything that we are doing the committees are aware of. The one issue that I am working on with all due haste is the ministerial forum and trying to come up with a way to implement some of those recommendations. I can reassure the Member that there are no new program initiatives that are going to require revenue coming up. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Question 83-13(7): Ensuring Adequacy Of Resources

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. You have used up your final supplementary. Mr. Ootes , your point of privilege.

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Point Of Privilege

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I wish to take exception to the Minister saying how cynical I have become since he left this side of the House. I take exception to that, I am not cynical in my approach, I am analytical and presenting facts before the Minister. That is not cynicism, Mr. Speaker.

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Point Of Privilege

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

What was your point of order?

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Point Of Privilege

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

That was my point of privilege, that I take exception, Mr. Speaker, to that wording.

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Point Of Privilege

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

On your point of privilege, a Member can raise on a point of privilege if he had been denied your right to exercise your privilege. With regard to the language being used, it could be a point of order. That was not what was raised, but again, to remind the Members that perhaps the language being used can be open to debate. The Member may perhaps raise on that point. There was no point of privilege. Oral questions, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week in the House the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services agreed or told us that there was, in fact, an investigation underway within the Department of Public Works and Services and that a law firm from Edmonton had been retained to look into the practices of the department with respect to the results of the conflict of interest inquiry. Mr. Steen , at that time, indicated that he could not commit to releasing the report because there may be matters of personal and confidentiality contained in that report. My question to Mr. Steen is, would he please table the terms of reference under which the firm was engaged? Thank you.

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Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the terms of reference for the firm were, in fact, drawn up previous to my time so, I am going to have to take the Member's question as notice and get back to her about the proper terms of reference.

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Return To Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Question 84-13(7): Lahm Ridge Review Terms Of Reference

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Henry .

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Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Honourable Michael Miltenberger , the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . The Minister made a statement in the House last week addressing priorities in Education, Culture and Employment. In that statement the Minister said, and I quote, the link between schools and the workplace is critical if we want to develop a northern workforce.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Miltenberger 's predecessor, Mr. Dent , and the Department of Education sponsored and financially supported a program called Bridges, which was a pilot program funded by the department to assist in the transition of school to workplace. This pilot program was funded by the department for two years at St. Patrick's High School. My question to the Minister is, is this the type of program that he wishes to further develop to assist the students from school to workplace? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 219

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That would be the intent of my comments. I see there is a need to have a greater tie-in with industry with the marketplace in terms of working with the schools. There has to be a greater relationship between the high schools and the colleges and planning for the needs in the north in terms of employment and development. It is a question of that people are doing a lot of the work, but it is not as well, in my opinion, coordinated as it could be.

The big player we have to bring to the table in a bigger way is the private sector. We have to be able to forecast what our needs are. For example, we are just now gearing up for the development in the diamond industry with apprentices. To me, in an ideal situation we should be able to hopefully anticipate a little better some of these needs so we are not going to be losing four years gearing up with apprentices, when there is a need today. If we do the work, do the labour market forecasting, we work with industry and the schools and the colleges that we can do a better job in that area. Thank you.

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Return To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for his response. My question to the Minister is, has he had an opportunity yet or does he intend to evaluate that particular program that the department has been funding for the past two years?

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I heard two questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it is my intention to evaluate that program. As well, I intend, and I booked meetings to tour Sir John Franklin as well as St. Patrick High School, first-hand, so I can meet the staff and take a walk around, see the students and the facilities themselves, since it has been 30 some years since I have had the pleasure of going into Sir John Franklin. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister is too modest. I would not have believed it was 30 years. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister report back to the House on his findings on that particular program and also as to whether it may require additional funding to develop further that it can be used in all parts of the territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be happy to commit to that on the assumption that if, in fact, we had to put more funds in and we could find it from within, that Mr. Ootes would concur that this is not a new program requiring new revenue, but yes, I will be happy to report back.

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Further Return To Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Question 85-13(7): Linking Education And Employment

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development about the Royal Oak situation where they are presently in receivership. Regarding the question about funds that were given to this company to look at the possibility of new resources and whatnot within that mine. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the situation with those funds that this government gave to that company to look for new resources? Is that money going to be allocated back to this government? What is the situation with those dollars?

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Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government had provided some financial assistance to Giant Mine to continue exploring for additional reserves. We have discontinued that assistance as of the latter part of March. There is no further assistance being provided at this time. Thank you.

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Return To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell the House exactly what is the plan for the monies that have been allocated, is it going back into the general revenue fund and how much was that fund?

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi , two questions.

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Further Return To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, as of the end of March I believe it has lapsed and is now back in general revenue. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 220

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell me how much of that fund is still intact and exactly where did those funds end up?

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker. I understand the money was part of the surplus that was split with the Government of Nunavut. The exact amount that we provided to Giant on what days and what amounts can be provided to the Members. I will circulate that information and also provide what amounts were actually withheld because of the developments with Giant in the last two weeks. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Question 86-13(7): Previous Funding Assistance To Giant Mine

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . One of the recommendations contained in the minister's forum was ECE should investigate the need to offer vocational programs and explore options on appropriate methods for offering these programs either at the community, regional or territorial level. Vocational programs.

The Minister has just stated that we should have had more lead time to prepare people for the diamond industry, I believe there has probably been a shortage of tradespeople in the Northwest Territories for a number of years and this is something specifically in my community, vocational program in the high school has been talked about for 20 years. Should we have any renewed hope of preparing our students for occupations in trades and in the diamond field based on this recommendation now when we have not seen any action on this in the last 20 years? Thank you.

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Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the saying goes, the hope springs eternal from the human breast. I think we always have to be optimistic, in spite of what we see as the lack of revenue to proceed on a lot of these issues. We meant just this morning, for instance, with members of your community and the Ice Diamond people about the employment opportunities in the diamond sector and the need for the schools and the college to be involved in that.

As well the college is currently trying to gear up and tool up its apprenticeship programs to address and meet the significant shortfall in terms of tradesmen, millwrights, welders, electricians, plumbers, et cetera. We are gearing up. There is no new money, in fact, to do this. A lot of the funds we do have we are looking for third party funding. We have increased that funding significantly in the last few years.

Yes, I think there is cause for hope. What that exactly translates to in terms of vocational programs in Hay River, I cannot tell you at this point. I can tell you that our 6:45 a.m. meeting this morning addressed the issue of how we are pulling these recommendations together and the work that is going to be done on those. Thank you.

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Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope that my comments and questions do not contradict Mr. Ootes 's position that he took on no new initiatives without the money. That is a concern and I think if we are realistic, we should not try and career path or education path everybody along academic lines strictly, that there is a good opportunity under the budget and money already allocated for high schools to get students started in that stream before they get to apprenticeships or college or choose an actual trade or profession.

Could the Minister indicate whether or not there would be the opportunity within high schools that currently exist to add vocational training if it did not include more funding, is that an opportunity that is available at this time for high schools to integrate vocational trades and training at the high school level at this time?

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would say that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is willing and committed to look at all these particular opportunities if the community wants to define where they think some of the needs are. I met with Mr. Butler from BHP and talked about the very issue of going to the schools on the issue of vocational trades and the needs for tradesmen. As well, I am meeting with the Ministerial Forum on mine training on Thursday and that is one of the issues we are going to be looking at. I would say, yes, and I would hope that the DECs and the DEA in Hay River are putting pen to paper in terms of how they would like to see that happen.

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell us, does the department at this time have any way of tracking or identifying where there are trades, where currently we are bringing people in from southern Canada to fill trade positions? Can they quantify the needs for tradespeople in the various industries at this time?

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 221

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To my knowledge we do not have a database of that nature but it is one of the issues that I talked about earlier in regards to a response to Mr. Henry of the need to be able to do that. To anticipate and forecast and point out where the needs are short-term and long-term in terms of those types of occupations so

that we can plan and gear up our systems to meet the demand. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time the Minister cannot tell us that the department knows for example, if there is a shortage in the area of heavy duty mechanics, automotive mechanics, I mean how can we gear our education system to these needs out there in the workforce if we do not have any idea of where there is a shortage. Do we need welders in the Northwest Territories right now? Where are we lacking or does the department even know? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department has an idea, we know for instance that BHP is importing a lot of skilled tradesmen from the south, welders, millwrights, all those type of trades. We know in the different areas. I have not yet been made aware of any type of coordinated database that brings it all together to allow us to forecast. We do have information, but it is not as well put together as I would like. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Question period is over. Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to return to recognition of visitors in the gallery.

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Further Return To Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Question 87-13(7): Vocational Training In High Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 222

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko , you have unanimous consent.

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