Debates of Jan. 28th, 1997

This is page numbers 225 - 250 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was budget .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Career Development, Literacy Information On World Wide Web

Minister Absent From The House

Senior's Fuel Subsidy Program

Clyde River Hockey Arena

Budget Development Process

Civil Service Southern Hires

Hiring Senior Managers From The South

Rebuilding Chief Julius School

Restoration Of Rayrock Mine Site

Strategies For Northern Issues

Cbc Radio Interview

Southern Hires

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Plans For Arena In Clyde River

Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Chief Julius School

Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

GNWT Hire North Policy

Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Adm For Community Empowerment

Reconsideration Of Adm Appointment

Social Housing Plan

Municipal Liabilities Through Empowerment

Written Question 2-13(4): Family Planning Programs

Replies To Budget Address 1-13(4) (picco)

Item 12: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Enuaraq , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Honourable Samuel Gargan , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable John Todd , Honourable Manitok Thompson , Mrs. Jane Groenewegen , Honourable Don Morin .

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Oh God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land, and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 225

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark . Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 31-13(4): Career Development, Literacy Information On World Wide Web

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 225

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announced the release of two new Internet resources. SikSik -- which is Education, Culture and Employment's presence on the World Wide Web -- has expanded to cover career development as well as literacy and adult basic education.

The career development site provides information that individuals, employers, communities and department staff can use in career and employment development. The site highlights departmental programs, services and resources. It also includes information on the NWT labour market, employment initiatives in key sectors such as mining, and training opportunities. People using the site are able to link directly to the regional career centres, the northern colleges and Can Work Net. Can Work Net is a national partnership that provides information about the job market and career planning.

The literacy and adult basic education site provides users with information on literacy in the workplace and the community, as well as aboriginal languages literacy. Funding procedures for community literacy projects in the Territories, descriptions of current projects, and links to other resources are also included.

Education, Culture and Employment's strategic plan outlines the key role that information technology will play in improving educational services to northerners and developing community learning networks. Adding information about career development, literacy and adult basic education to SikSik is an important step in supplying vital information to people and communities.

Mr. Speaker, later on in this session, I will provide more information about how the department is supporting the development of new uses for computers in the classroom. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 31-13(4): Career Development, Literacy Information On World Wide Web

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 225

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 32-13(4): Minister Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 225

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise the Members that the Honourable Kelvin Ng will be absent from the House today and Wednesday to attend the Council on Social Policy Renewal as well as meetings of the Federal, Provincial and Territorial Ministers of Social Services in Toronto. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 32-13(4): Minister Absent From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 225

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Senior's Fuel Subsidy Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 225

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to speak again about the senior fossil fuel subsidy. Ordinary Members of this House and the Social Programs Committee members have repeatedly expressed their objection to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment's position on the subsidy of fossil fuel to seniors in the Northwest Territories. Despite lengthy discussions, impassioned pleas, and intelligent reasoning, Minister Dent has not seen fit to leave this $250,000 item of support to seniors in the 1997/98 budget. The Minister told us that if we wanted to leave this expenditure in place, the money for it will have to be found some place else within the department.

Several reasonable and viable options for the revenue could be found or a reduction made were offered up. This subsidy is part of a larger issue of fairness and consistency in support to seniors. A system of programs which very obviously has many flaws and gaps. After all this discussion, I have to ask myself a question I often ask my children, who appear at times to have selective hearing, am I having a conversation with myself? I question the Minister's hearing in this instance as well.

Are Ordinary Members who feel very strongly about this subsidy having a conversation with ourselves? What part of leave it in the budget does the Minister not understand? It is my understanding that a comprehensive review of support to seniors is underway, or going to be undertaken. While I applaud this measure, which will look at things such as income thresholds, age, and eligibility, I would like to see the fossil fuel subsidy remain in the budget. Further, there be a moratorium on any reductions in support to seniors until such time as a fair and integrated proposal is brought forward and adopted.

If such a moratorium on changes to support to seniors is not agreed to by the Minister, I think that a boycott of the consideration of the budget of Education, Culture and Employment in this House would be in order. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Senior's Fuel Subsidy Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Clyde River Hockey Arena

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon, Members. I wish well to my family back home in Clyde River. Mr. Speaker, I will speak about an issue that I have talked about earlier. It is with regards to Clyde River. The population in Clyde River continues to increase, and up to today, they do not have a hockey arena. I have brought this issue up before to the appropriate Minister. I was requesting a hockey arena be established in Clyde River. Today, I will be asking a question under question period.

I will be directing my question to the Minister of MACA, Municipal and Community Affairs , with regards to this arena. I will be asking the honourable Minister with regards as to what they have done for my request. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.(Translation ends)

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Clyde River Hockey Arena

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Henry .

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Budget Development Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment on a report that I heard on CBC radio last evening. It was on a comment made by Mr. Todd , the Minister of Finance , regarding the budget. Mr. Todd stated that he did not see much opposition to the budget because, and I quote, "because Members had a hand in it". This statement is accurate, Mr. Speaker, but I would like to explain it a little further, as I am sure that the Minister of Finance would have done if he had a little more time.

Each of the departments sponsored by their Minister brings forward the budget for presentation of their department to the Ordinary Members' committees. A few weeks later, the same Minister with his officials will bring back a draft budget. At both of those times, Ordinary Members do have input into that document. The document is prepared, so mostly the committees are responding to what to has been presented by the departments and the Minister.

I am not suggesting that Ordinary Members did not have a hand in the budget, nor am I suggesting that this budget may have a lot of opposition in the House, I think that there will be some areas as we are working through that will be contentious, but I think it is fair to say that if the Minister felt that all Ordinary Members had a hand in it, it is like me inferring that I am draining Great Slave Lake because I took a bucket of water out of it last year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Budget Development Process

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry . Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to join my honourable colleagues today and question the recent appointments of non-northerners to senior posts in the civil service. We have been dealing with this issue at various levels for some time. Ordinary MLAs fear that qualified northerners are losing opportunities to imported talent. First, let me make one thing clear. I do not want to question the capabilities of individuals who have moved north to take senior positions with the territorial government. I am sure their qualifications and references are first rate.

My problems lie with the decisions of the people doing the hiring. This government must make a commitment to the northern work force, and I do not believe that recent decisions reflect that commitment.

Mr. Speaker, when we negotiated a development agreement with BHP Diamonds, we demanded the company set a target of 60 percent northern hires. Likewise, we apply a strict affirmative action policy throughout the lower levels of the civil service. I think we should try harder to enforce similar targets and policies at the senior management level where appointments are most visible and influential. If we do not, I fear we will lose all credibility, especially, when we ask outside employers to hire northerners and promote them to management positions.

I wonder what kind of image we project when we hire the bulk of our senior managers from the south. I suspect it is not a good one. The fact that the government has dragged its feet in replying to last year's report on affirmative action makes matters even worse. I have been asking for a reply since I got here in 1995.

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Order. Mr. Ootes . Your point of order, Mr. Premier .

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member, Mr. Ootes , for Yellowknife Centre, is deliberately misleading this House and the public with his previous statement that we, as a government hire the bulk of our senior management from the south. I would ask him to withdraw that statement. Thank you.

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. On the point of order of the Premier . The Premier does not have a point of order. He does have a point of debate, but I do not think that Mr. Ootes ' intention was to mislead the House. I would like Mr. Ootes to conclude his statement, if there is no other point of order. Mr. Ootes .

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will clarify the point as well. Three of the five senior appointments, that is at the deputy minister and senior ADM level, have been or will be appointed from the south in the past year.

That is my point. If I may continue, Mr. Speaker, to conclude my statement. I have been asking for a reply to the affirmative action report since I got here in 1995, but I have not had that report tabled back in the House. Mr. Speaker, I believe, northerners are up to any job that this government has to offer. Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 226

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we

have any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent.

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also believe it is up to us to demonstrate confidence in our northern people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Civil Service Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes . Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Hiring Senior Managers From The South

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, as well, would like to rise and voice my concerns with the issue of the hiring of senior staff at the ADM and deputy minister level. I would point out that, as Mr. Ootes has, three of the last five positions have been hired from the south, and I am very concerned about the message that we are sending as a government in regards to our strong sentiments that we voice about affirmative action, and the words we speak, but the actions that we carry out seem to different sometimes.

At this level, I do not think it is appropriate, and I am concerned that the message that we are sending to the people, is it is okay to lay off northerners by the hundreds, but we always have room to hire a few more southerners, even though we have a whole pool of qualified northern labour and talent here.

This is a message in the case of MACA, that community empowerment is so complicated for us that we have to bring in somebody from the south to help us run it. If we have to bring in somebody that is an expert from the south on community empowerment, how can we expect to sell this to the people, who are expected to use their own resources and the services there to deal with this issue?

It is a message that, after 30 years, we still have to rely on imported managers to come up and run the affairs of this territory. It is a message that northerners are not capable, after all these years, as we push towards division and self-government.

Mr. Speaker, the senior management ranks are a bleak landscape in terms of affirmative action, and the statistics bear it out. It is nothing that we can hold our heads up with and say that we have met any kind of targets that are really relevant or reasonable.

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned that the government's actions and its words do not match. It is a message that there is a double standard. This, of course, begs the question: what type of affirmative action northern strategy can we expect, that will be accepted as relevant and credible, given the two paths we seem to be walking as a government and an Assembly on this very critical issue? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Hiring Senior Managers From The South

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Rebuilding Chief Julius School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today in regards to the Chief Julius School that was destroyed by fire over a year ago and is presently under construction. The community has made a decision to build a full size gymnasium similar to the one that was destroyed in the fire January 9, 1996. But because regulations that this government has put in place in regards to the size of gymnasiums based on population, they are not able to do that. Yet, the community has made a commitment in the past to down-size the existing community hall and transfer those monies to the previous gymnasium in 1994.

Through the destruction of the school in the fire, they were told that they would not get a full size gymnasium, yet, it is being constructed to date at a cost of almost $300,000, which the community will have to pick up the portion of that cost. The school that was destroyed was covered by insurance. I do not see why this government cannot find the appropriate funds through the insurance policy or plan that it had in place. Mr.

Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister of Education a question on this matter, which I believe that this department has the authority for education and education facilities in all communities, and should take the responsibility when those facilities are being constructed. Thank you.

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Rebuilding Chief Julius School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Restoration Of Rayrock Mine Site

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 227

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have had a long history of mining in our country. In most parts the mining companies have cleaned their sites, leaving little or no harmful products behind. I do, however, know of one mining site, a short distance from Rae, that has taken over three decades to get cleaned. This mine is the Rae Rock Mine. In the late 1950s and early 1960s this mine operated. Of course in those days there was little known about the contaminates and effect they have on people and wildlife that go near.

Since the closure of this mine, there have been many residents that have passed on due to cancer, which some say is a direct result of these people working at the uranium mine at Rae Rock.

Studies were made, but no clear identifier showed that this was the case. Over the years, my people have lobbied strong and hard to get the company or the government to clean the site and finally, within the last couple of years this mine site has been cleaned. This of course is good, however, how many people and wildlife have died over the years as a result of tailing ponds being unprotected, which allowed animals to drink from there.

Now today we have another mine that may be on the verge of closing, that being the Colomac Mine operated by Royal Oak. My concern, as well as a number of my constituents, is that if this mine closes what will become of the tailings ponds. How can we assure my people that no harm will come from hunting caribou that have travelled past this site and have eaten and watered from this area?

It is my hope that we do not have to wait another 30 years for any and all dangerous goods to be cleaned from this site. The clean up must take place, as part of the parcel of this mine shut down and our government must monitor and ensure that this takes place. At the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister responsible regarding this important issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Restoration Of Rayrock Mine Site

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca . Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Strategies For Northern Issues

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will give my budget address later today. At this time, I want to talk of strategies. Mr. Speaker, a goal without a strategy is just a slogan. On April 1, 1999, do we want to become known as a slogan driven government? All the buzz words of slogan driven agendas are there. We have a common agenda, a common plan. My children, and your children, and the one that creeps up in every discussion, with the board collective in the house at the end of the day. The point here, Mr.

Speaker, is our revenue has been reduced, and we seem to be void of other areas of revenue generation outside the doom and gloom of new taxes or tax increases. We have not addressed new social housing issues, or a comprehensive job strategy.

But in fairness, it has been a rough 15 months. Mr. Speaker, the mandate of the 13th Assembly has been fraught with less federal funding, looming division, a forced growth rate in the social envelope that is driving the majority of our expenditures. It is not a time, Mr. Speaker, to begin to sit down as an Assembly and ask the residents, the constituency of the Northwest Territories, where the focus for the last 700-odd days of this government are headed before division.

We will have to evaluate the down sizing, reductions, and lay offs, the program cuts, and elimination of jobs and services. The full impact on the pace and direction of our community empowerment and our hiring policies. Then, and only then, can we plan for a course of action leading up to April 1 division and beyond.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to raising these and other issues during the main estimate debates of the particular departments in the committee of the whole over the next few weeks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Strategies For Northern Issues

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Members' statements. Mr. Roland .

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Cbc Radio Interview

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to make comment on an interview I did yesterday with CBC Radio. During the interview, I was told that there was information given that Inuvik had taken 11 percent reduction, the highest of all the other communities that were mentioned. It threw me off during the interview, and at the same time they asked how would I defend this.

I replied that I do not believe it is my job to defend the reductions that are coming by this government. I agree I take

part in committees, and I put forward suggestions in the committees that I sit on, but if those are not accepted as options, then I have no recourse but not to buy into what is being put forward. I told them it was my job to make sure, as I have said here in the house many times, that fairness needed to be looked at. That we need to deal with communities in a fair and equitable manner.

-- Applause

As I said, with great interest I would see how this budget unfolded. I do not know where this information of the 11 percent came in, but I intend to try and find this out, because no doubt, as the people of Inuvik heard that interview, they are probably wondering why is this happening for the second year in a row? Later on, Mr. Speaker, I will be questioning the appropriate Minister on this information. Thank you.

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Cbc Radio Interview

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus .

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Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement is on the recent appointments of southerners to high profile jobs, and in particular, on the recent job offer for assistant deputy minister to head the community empowerment initiative.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday Mr. Miltenberger said he was appalled that a southerner had been offered this position. I, too, am appalled. I am appalled, shocked, dismayed, and ashamed. Yes, ashamed. Ashamed to be part of a government that would make a job offer of assistant deputy minister in charge of community empowerment to a southern person with no northern experience whatsoever.

Mr. Speaker, no doubt the person is a good worker, he has a good resume, and all the rest of that, but in this past year alone, we have laid off over 200 people in Yellowknife, and somewhere in the vicinity of 400 in the Northwest Territories. The Premier and the Finance Minister have indicated that we still have an affirmative action policy, but the Minister of MACA does not want to indicate that our department follows this mythical policy. This indicates to me that this mythical policy does not seem to apply to Cabinet. A Cabinet that is supposed to lead by example.

What kind of example is Cabinet setting when, in the last year, they have hired three out of five high profile positions, they have hired people from the south. Mr. Speaker, the community people are already sceptical about community empowerment. I would have thought that they would have found a friendly, honest, respected face. No, we get a southerner with no northern experience to lead the charge on community empowerment. What will the community leaders think, when this person comes to consult with them, when he does not even know what Treaty 8 is, or the South Slave Region?

-- Applause

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent, Mr. Erasmus .

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Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 228

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does this government still have an affirmative action policy? If we do, does this affirmative action policy apply to cabinet? Apparently not. The Minister of MACA would not answer yesterday when I asked if MACA follows the policy. Now, for this assistant deputy minister position, it should not have even been advertised in the south, never mind hire a southerner. Talk about kicking a person while he is down. You hire a

southerner, and they have absolutely no northern experience whatsoever. I would suggest that if the interviewers were not happy with the northern applicants, they should have re-advertised the position. This has been done many times. I would like to know why this was not done in this instance. Mr. Speaker, in the words of a well known, beloved, benevolent benefactor, who is all things for all people in all areas of the NWT, why, why, why?

The only word that comes to mind is arrogance, Mr. Speaker. Yes, arrogance, and I cannot understand the arrogance of this cabinet, and I cannot condone it. The job offer for this assistant deputy minister position should never have been made, and I am asking the Minister to revoke it. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Southern Hires

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 229

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus . Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Ootes .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 229

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to introduce a very well-known and respected Metis elder in the north, a northern prospector. He is a good friend of mine and a constituent, Darcy Arden.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 229

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

I would like to make a ruling on the point of order raised by Mr. Kakfwi on January 24, 1997. The rules and procedures of this House require the Speaker to rule on all points of order and privilege as they arise in the House. I would therefore like to rule on the point of order raised by the Member for Sahtu , Mr. Kakfwi , on Friday, January 24 regarding dress and decorum.

Speaker's Ruling

In providing this ruling, I considered past practices and rulings that have been made on the question of dress and decorum in the Assembly. I do not intend to address, in great detail, the specific point raised by Mr. Kakfwi so as not to provide further profile to this particular incident.

First, to the question of what attire and dress in the chamber would be considered a matter for a ruling by the chair if Rule 12 is challenged. In our rules, under the heading, Order and Decorum, Rule 12(9), provides for the following and I quote:

"When in the Assembly, every Member shall be attired in native dress or in a manner appropriate to the dignity of the Assembly."

This is perhaps one of the most difficult rules that we have with respect to its

interpretation and application. For example, other rules under the same

section are far more clear, such as the following, and I quote Rule 12(10):

"Smoking is not permitted during any proceedings of the Assembly. Food and beverages, other than water, may not be brought into or consumed in the chamber."

By way of illustration, that rule is easy to interpret and when an infraction occurs, it is obvious to the chair and the rule can be clearly and quickly applied. This, as I indicated, is not as simple when considering the attire of Members. This question has been raised before in the 13th Assembly and it also has been raised in other Assemblies. The chair has previously allowed some latitude in the matter when it is raised more as a way of providing, some might say, comic relief.

However, I feel that comic relief of this nature is not something that I will continue to tolerate and I am sure those who follow the actions of Members in the House, through television and radio, do not wish to see their elected members behaving in a manner that may discredit the Legislative Assembly as a whole.

To the specific point of order raised by Mr. Kakfwi , he felt, and I quote from Mr. Kakfwi 's comments contained on page 343 of the unedited Hansard:

"Mr. Speaker, there are two points. One, that the wearing of a tie that has Mickey Mouse on it offends the dignity of the Dene jacket that is worn. The second point raised was that the wearing of a Mickey Mouse tie offends the dignity of the House in which the Member is sitting."

With regard to the first point, on the question of wearing a tie with a traditional Dene jacket, I would suggest it would be very difficult to deal with this issue in isolation of all Members' opinions on the matter. I do not intend to waste the time of the House to do this and will comment on this later. I do note, however, that the Member for Mackenzie Delta , in responding to the point of order, did indicate some understanding of Mr. Kakfwi 's concern and I quote from his comments contained on page 343 of the unedited Hansard:

"I do have to agree with my colleague who raised the point in regards to wearing just the traditional jacket without a tie. I was told that I had to wear a tie. I do agree that when we are using traditional dress, that we should not wear a tie."

Other jurisdictions are not of much assistance to us in addressing this matter. The House of Commons' standing orders are virtually silent on the subject of Members' dress. Many Speakers in the House of Commons, and in other jurisdictions, have ruled that male Members must wear a jacket, shirt and tie.

In general, Speakers have enforced conservative, contemporary standards relating to dress. Native dress is recognized specifically in our rules, which should be the case, as rules should reflect the Members' cultures and traditions of the jurisdiction they are elected to serve.

I am of the opinion that it would be impossible for the Speaker to produce a dress code where certain items may or may not offend the dignity of the House and the many traditions in the Northwest Territories. It is also clear that there does have to be a standard that has to be applied to ensure the dignity of the House is maintained. I think the constituencies we represent expect more of us in this regard.

In researching this point, I noted that, in the House of Commons, it is usually up to the Speaker where he or she views the dress as disruptive to the conduct of the House. Problems rarely arise unless the attire has been chosen specifically intended to disrupt the House and then the Speaker must focus, not on the dress, but on the disruption.

I am confident that when Members get up in the morning and contemplate their attire for the day, that they do so without any attempt to cause disruption or discomfort to other Members or to make a political statement. I wish to be quite clear that, if I find that any Member does dress to cause a disruption, I will deal with that Member with the full authority you have given me as Speaker.

The present Rule 12(9) does not give the Chair a clear definition as to what or what is not an acceptable mode of dress. Comments last week indicated many Members are also uncertain. I therefore refer the matter of attire of Members and wording of Rule 12(9) to the Standing Committee on Rules and Procedures, to provide guidance and direction so that we do not continue with this type of debate in the House.

In light of this referral and, in anticipation of additional clarity on the issue, I rule that Mr. Kakfwi does not have a point of order.

On another somewhat related issue, while considering this ruling, I am conscious of the fact that it was raised during question period. The matter of raising points of order or questions of privilege during question period has concerned me for some time. Such points of order or questions of privilege take up the valuable time allotted to question period. I agree that this is a concern and would point out that a number of other jurisdictions do not permit points of order or matters of privilege to be raised during question period.

We have the longest question period of all the Canadian jurisdictions, which may be necessary in our consensus style of government. In our consensus style, it is equally important that we make efficient and, I would hope, effective use of the time available, so that as many Members as possible can ask questions. I therefore rule that:

Questions of privilege and points of order that Members may wish to raise during question period, ought to be taken up after the question period, unless the Speaker considers it to be an extremely grave or urgent matter.

Members, thank you for your attention. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Question 138-13(4): Plans For Arena In Clyde River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said in my Member's statement earlier, I will be asking the Minister of MACA regarding an arena for Clyde River. I would like to ask the Minister, the Honourable Manitok Thompson , Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , I would like to ask her what her staff have planned for the arena in Clyde River. Thank you. (Translation ends)

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Question 138-13(4): Plans For Arena In Clyde River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs , Ms Thompson.

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Question 138-13(4): Plans For Arena In Clyde River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

Manitok Thompson

Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Regarding the arena in Clyde River, it has not changed as planned in 1995 and 1996. We consulted with the community and there have been no changes to this point. In 1997-98, drafting will be done, in 1998, the construction will begin in Clyde River and in 1999, it will be completed. (Translation ends)

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Question 138-13(4): Plans For Arena In Clyde River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Picco .

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Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the Baffin, we enjoy the services of a regional librarian. This person supports the four community libraries in the region, along with running the library in Iqaluit. The regional librarian provides a variety of services including training, developing a Nunavut collection, oral services for residents living outside of Iqaluit, and also building up a very useful resource materials of Inuktitut going back several decades. Can the Minister of Education, Culture and Careers, confirm that the regional librarian position is proposed to be cut in 1997-98 budget, next year.

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Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment . Mr. Dent .

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Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct. That position as well as the other remaining position which is in the Keewatin, are not funded in the 1997-98 budget.

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Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is a major concern in the Baffin region, especially in my community, about the loss of this position. I understand that with the proposal on the table, is that the people now in the Baffin will have to request/borrow books from the NWT head office of the library service in Hay River. That is where the headquarters for the library service is located. Can the Minister confirm that for me?

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the intention is to move to an electronic data base which would mean that all of the libraries across the north will be linked, so that resources are available in every community from all northern libraries. It does not mean that all of the services will necessarily be provided from Hay River. No.

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Further Return To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 230

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral question. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what does that mean that it is going to be hooked up to the Internet? Does that mean electronic service? What I am saying is, if the book right now is available in Iqaluit, is based in the Iqaluit regional library. It is mailed from Iqaluit to Pond, to Pang, to Dorset. If there is no regional librarian in Iqaluit, does that mean that the library service has to pay to ship the book from Hay River to Iqaluit, or ship it from Hay River to Pond Inlet, at what cost? The principle of the library service, Mr.

Speaker, in the Northwest Territories according to the Act is that we would provide a free library service to the people of the Northwest Territories. Who will pay for this, and where is the money coming from?

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am trying to remember particularly the three questions there and answer as many of them as I can remember. There will be no change to the way the service is provided, Mr. Speaker. Currently, the regional librarian in Iqaluit may find that a book that has been requested in Cape Dorset is actually residing in Yellowknife. It is still provided from Yellowknife to Cape Dorset. It has nothing to do with the location of the books necessarily. The books will still be wherever they are located in whichever community library.

If they are located in the community library in Iqaluit, they can still be shipped from Iqaluit to Cape Dorset. That is still the intention, to link the libraries so that the books are still available to all residents of the Northwest Territories, but certainly not every library in the north will have every book.

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Further Return To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess there was three answers in those three questions in the one. I will not get into a debate with it. Part of my earlier

preamble when I talked about the importance of the work going on by the community librarian, one of those things is to work for the creation of the new territory of Nunavut, which means that the only qualified professional librarian in all of Nunavut is located in Iqaluit. We are laying that person off. Mr. Dent had a great speech about literacy earlier today on the World Wide Web. I wonder, can Mr.

Dent tell me who is going develop the collection and maintain the collection of Inuktitut materials, now presently available in the Iqaluit regional library which is maintained by the regional librarian, who is now not going to be there at the end of three months. Who will be doing that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe that the regional librarian is the only qualified in the Northwest Territories. I am sure that the librarian that is also being eliminated in Rankin Inlet is a qualified librarian. As was the regional librarian in Hay River who was laid off last year.

To answer the Member's question, the Member seems mostly concerned about what sounds to me almost like a division related issue. Perhaps, the Member should be requesting that the interim commissioner for Nunavut, when he or she is named, appoint a librarian to collect these documents that the Member is referring to. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Question 139-13(4): Baffin Regional Librarian Position

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Barnabas .

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Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask a question to Honourable Charles Dent (Translation ends) on behalf of our mandate as an Assembly, trying to deal with the legacy of debt that we inherited. We have looked at cutting costs and providing more efficient services. We have also spent time gearing up for division. With this in mind, Mr. Speaker, it is not clear how replacing regional librarians in the east with the support services from the west and technology will be either cost effective or supportive of preparing for division. My question to the Minister, Mr.

Speaker, has the Minister done a cost analysis of the additional costs to provide both technological and staff support to both Baffin and Keewatin from Hay River? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment . Mr. Dent .

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Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons for this change is a budgetary initiative, to save money. So, that sort of examination was undertaken. I think it would be safe to say that, whether or not we were eliminating the regional librarian positions, this government still has a commitment to move forward with the technological change we are embarking on because it provides better service to all of the people in smaller communities across the north. That really is one of the driving factors here.

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Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas .

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Supplementary To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

Has he looked at the increased cost in telephones, mailings, travel for training of the new community library staff and increased staff demands? Hay River staff are not familiar with the needs of the culture of the people in these regions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 231

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that the department is satisfied that there would be no increase in mailing costs necessarily, because the books are not being moved. The books still only have to move from whatever community they are resident in right now to whatever community they are being requested in. In terms of training, it is being undertaken all of the time. In fact, the department has, for the last couple of years identified funds within its budget to ensure that the people are adequately trained to take advantage of the technology. So, Mr. Speaker, I do not think that this is an issue.

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Further Return To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas .

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Supplementary To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

There is an indication that the regional librarians are no longer needed, because part of their function will be taken over by technology. Has the Minister done cost estimate of the hardware and software cost necessary to make this reality? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated a couple of responses ago, we are moving forward with this infrastructure in any case, because it provides better service. The hardware has been budgeted for, the software has been budgeted for, the digital backbone across the Northwest Territories is something that is going in. This is not something that is additional in terms of cost to this government. We are embarking on this digital network because we have identified it as a significant way in which we can save money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas . Your final supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Levi Barnabas

High Arctic

As I mentioned in my initial question, we have been preparing for division. In most departments there is a talk about establishing an eastern presence so that the transition in 1999 will be smoother. The elimination of the regional librarians seems to eliminate the possible presence of the core library staff in Nunavut. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister explain why he is making these reductions which seem contrary to the approach the government is taking on division? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent

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Further Return To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the elimination of these positions is seen partly as a budget measure in order to meet our target, but also, as I have said, because we see with the changing technology, the way library services are being offered across Canada, more and more the services are being offered electronically. We are confident that we can achieve a good level of service at better cost to this government with these changes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Question 140-13(4): Cost Of Replacing Regional Librarians

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien .

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Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, earlier this fall I received written notice from Mr. Joe Hanley of the Housing Corporation that the Housing Corporation suboffice in Rankin Inlet would be closed, and positions moved to the regional office in Arviat on March 31, 1997.

Subsequent to that notice, I was advised in the Assembly by the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , that the relocation suboffice had been placed on hold pending the outcome of the amalgamation of Housing Corporation, Transportation, Public Works and Services. Mr. Speaker, in light of the decision last week in this Assembly not to proceed with the amalgamation, can the Minister confirm when this transfer will take place? Thank you.

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Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Return To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker. It is true that we had put any changes on hold for the time being. One of the recommendations that we did agree with government operation was to continue to look for areas where we could improve efficiencies, lower costs, et cetera. That is the area that we need to continually be working on, and it is an area that I am spending some time looking at. We are in the process of doing that, reviewing the way we run these offices. I do plan to make a plan available for Cabinet to review within the next few months.

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Return To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if I heard the Minister say that he would be reviewing this again, and it would take another few months. Was that his comment?

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Supplementary To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 232

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker. The amalgamation, as I repeated, has been put on hold, but I did say that we agreed with the government operations committee recommendation that we continue to look for efficiencies. We

are doing that. We are also reviewing how the community empowerment initiative will effect the operations of district offices in these communities. So, we will be coming up with answers shortly.

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Further Return To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I find the Minister's answer somewhat frustrating. I assume that when I had written confirmation that the positions would be transferred that his department would be true to their word. We were then further told that because of the amalgamation that we would have to wait until the outcome. We now know the outcome. The Minister is now saying that he has maybe changed his mind, and there is a further delay. There was no delay when they transferred five positions out of Baker Lake to Rankin. No delay, without any consultation with myself, nor the community.

I would suggest to the Minister that he should look at the documentation that was sent out to myself where he confirmed that the positions would be transferred to Arviat. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, we are working in an environment of rapid change of preparing for division, less money for departments and less flexibility in what we can do. I do understand the Member's concern about trying to maintain jobs in his community. However, at this time, I cannot give any comfort in saying that I will not do one thing or another.

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Further Return To Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Question 141-13(4): Relocation Of Office To Arviat

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education in regards to the Chief Julius School in Fort McPherson. Some time in the early hours of Tuesday, January 8, 1996, the Chief Julius School, Fort McPherson, was destroyed by fire. Before this sad event occurred, Tetlit Zheh Construction Limited, a Gwich'in-owned company, was in the process of negotiating a contract with the Government of the Northwest Territories to renovate the old school.

I would like to ask the Minister, what amount was allocated for the renovation of the school and how much was spent, prior to the demise of the school? Further, I would like to ask the Minister, what became of the unspent capital that was allocated for that renovation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent . I believe there are two questions there.

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Return To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not have with me, at this point in time, the figures that were previously budgeted for renovation of that school. In terms of what would have happened to the capital allocation, it would have been redistributed among other projects within the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The reason that I ask these questions is to assist my constituents in accessing funds that were not committed by this government, to cover the additional costs associated with the gymnasium in the new Chief Julius School. The House is well aware, Tetlit Zheh Construction Limited, in consultation with the government and the communities, to try to find funds in regards to the construction of the Chief Julius School, was made prior to March, 1996, when a decision was made to complete the full-size gymnasium and to access funds from other areas, other departments, such as MACA and also through the lost heat idea.

Mr. Speaker, a few years ago, the community of Fort McPherson agreed to the building of a community complex which was designed... would Mr. Todd hold back on his remarks until I have finished my statement?

-- Applause

With the construction of a community complex which was built smaller than normally designed, so that the community could allocate funds into the old Chief Julius School for a full-size gym. Mr. Speaker, Fort McPherson School and president of the Gwich'in Development Corporation...

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Supplementary To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Krutko . I have reminded the Members, in my ruling today, that I will allow the

preamble to a question and then three additional questions. What I will not allow is Members to continue to make the same

preamble every time they ask the same question. I will allow Members to give a

preamble to their question and then questions relating to that

preamble. Now, can I get some Members' cooperation to that regard, please? Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can you allow me to get to my question? As I stated for the Minister, there have been attempts made to find those resources so the question I would like to ask, Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Education attempt to access funds to cover the additional cost of a full-size gymnasium?

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Supplementary To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 233

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government has bent over backwards to help the community to try and find some way to build a larger gym in the school. This project is being managed by the Divisional Education Council. We have a block funding agreement with the Council and handed over responsibility totally for the project to that Council. I do know that the community, the Member, myself, all met with the Minister of MACA , to talk about whether or not funds could be found for an expanded gym.

I know that, unfortunately, there was not agreement within the community, for instance, to switch the cost of a new grader into providing an expanded gym, even though the local development corporation has graders in the community, which could have been used.

I think that there have been efforts made by MACA, and by my department. I know that the Power Corporation certainly suggested that, through the joint venture company AADRII Limited, the cost to heat the school could be reduced and some of those capital costs maybe turned into a gym. There was not political agreement as to whether or not any of these processes could work. At the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, we are left with the situation where we could not find any extra funds. I must tell the House that, at this point in time, I have been unable to identify any extra funds within my department to provide a further contribution to this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if he would give me the information with regards to the exact amount of dollars that was covered by insurance in regards to the Chief Julius School that was destroyed by fire.

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Supplementary To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to provide that information to the Member. Off the top of my head, I can say that it was approximately $8 million, but I will provide the Member with the exact number within the next day or so.

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Further Return To Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Question 142-13(4): Chief Julius School

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Rabesca .

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Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today in my Member's statement, I mentioned the possibility of the Colomac Mine closing its operation. With this in mind, I would like to ask the Minister for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , if his department is monitoring the tailings ponds at the Colomac mine?

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Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier , would you like to respond.

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Return To Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take that question as notice. Thank you.

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Return To Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Question 143-13(4): Monitoring Colomac Tailings

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Roland .

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Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister responsible for Finance . Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier in my statement, I did an interview with CBC yesterday evening and during that interview, some information was given that Inuvik had taken an 11 percent reduction. I would like to know from the Minister if anybody else outside the government was doing an analysis on our budget for those people to come up with an 11 percent figure? Thank you.

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Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. In regards to rules, I would like to ask the Member are those comments he made himself, or are those comments made by the media?

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Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The comments were made by the media in an interview. I would like to know if the FMBS or the Minister of Finance has anybody outside of his department working on this budget to do an analysis.

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Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

A Minister cannot confirm what has been said by the media about the 11 percent, but I do believe it is in the Minister's knowledge, the second part of your question. I will allow it. The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what my honourable colleague is alluding to is the editorial comment that was made on the budget, and I believe some people independent of government may have given their analysis of the budget and the projected cuts that we have placed in there. Any reference to percentages have no bearing on the position of the FMBS. It was probably an independent group of people doing their thing based upon the fact that we brought the budget forward yesterday. Thank you.

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Return To Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following that question, I would like to know if the Minister will have information made available on the government reductions as it covers communities, and when he would be able to provide that? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 234

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize, and my honourable colleague has raised this on a number of occasions, the need for fairness and equity. In fact, I believe another Member asked it yesterday and others. We are very cognisant of the fact that my honourable colleague from Inuvik is under, understandably, a considerable amount of pressure because of what is taking place in his riding. As others are, myself included. We did provide the layoffs, et cetera.

I am prepared to prepare a full analysis, if you want, of where the cuts have taken place both in capital, O & M and in the PYs, to reassure everybody that, as I said in the budget yesterday, we did try to transcend any particular constituency and ensure that there was a sense of fairness and equity.

The reality is that budget rate cuts have come from those who have the most. Regional centres like Rankin Inlet, like Iqaluit, and Inuvik have had to take their fair share of the hits. I understand where my honourable colleague is coming from. I will provide him with the information that will hopefully reassure him that his area of concern is addressed as quickly as I can, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Question 144-13(4): Outside Analysis Of GNWT Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier . I would like the Premier to tell the House as well as the many interested and disheartened employees, former employees and the general public, about the government's position on hiring north and affirmative action, especially as it pertains to the senior staff issue that is presently the topic of some discussion in this House? Thank you.

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Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier .

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Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government is on record and has been on record in the past as always supporting northern hire. We have already made a commitment to Members of this Legislative Assembly on the review of the affirmative action policy. I believe that is going to be brought forward during this session, so Members can debate that issue in this House and set the principles for recreating ... the affirmative action policy. Thank you.

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Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin . Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My supplementary to the Premier is, can he clarify beyond the general support that he says has been given and I know has been given in this House and in other arenas of the government, to affirmative action, northern hire, when in fact 60 percent, or three of the last five senior positions that have been hired have been from the south. It seems to be somewhat at variance with what the Premier is telling this House, and how does the Premier reconcile that stark difference?

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Supplementary To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like I have said previously in this House, this government is very committed to hiring north. Hiring in any organization is a difficult task. When we were elected some 15 months ago, we kept the majority of the senior management on, and we have hired the majority of the senior management from the north. There are some positions that require unique skills that we did advertise in southern Canada for and in the north as well. Those people that did apply, it was felt that they were the best qualified to fill those positions, so they were hired.

As far as affirmative action and the whole affirmative action issue, we still have to take the opportunity in this Assembly to debate that issue and discuss it here. I believe that issue will be brought forward by the government in the very near future. I do know that it is safe to make the commitment that it will be brought forward during this session of the Legislative Assembly for debate. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier just made reference to the need to go south to obtain unique talents. Does the Premier see the issue of community empowerment as a unique talent that is available only in the south?

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Supplementary To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I made that statement, that there are certain qualifications that are needed for certain jobs in the Northwest Territories, and I am not going to talk about any specific jobs, but you end up going south. You do end up with a southerner in a position the odd time, whether it be in government, or it be in the mining industry, or whatever. We acknowledge that fact and we recognize that.

That is not saying that people in the Northwest Territories do not have a great amount of qualifications, but it so happens that some jobs in the government, and even outside of government, that people make the decision to hire, and they make the decision to hire the best person for that job.

The only way you can ever really judge whether that is the right or wrong decision, is finding out if that person produces. Until you give that person the opportunity to produce, whether it be for private sector or the government, then you cannot judge whether that is the right or wrong decision. So, the indulgence of the Assembly, I think that we are going to, in this Assembly, have a debate on the affirmative action policy and hiring north. We will have that debate, and we will have that debate on broad principles, and then we will have clear direction from this House.

I know that in the past the affirmative action policy has not increased very well, of aboriginal senior management in government. I also know that it has to be re-worked, and we look forward to Members' input on that whole issue.

I am not going to make a comment on whether or not, I guess I have a problem, Mr. Speaker, commenting or talking about individuals in this Assembly that are not able to defend themselves in the Assembly. We have made it common practice before in this House, for example, not to name individuals or be cautious of how we approach issues. We approach them on principle and deal with them in such a way. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 235

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Yes, again, just to caution the Members regarding questions to the Ministers, the Members have to ask questions on the governments position on certain issues, to caution you with regard to seeking an opinion on an individual Member as a Member. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to point out that in fact my reference was to the issue and the topic of community empowerment. I made no reference to any person or position, and I was asking the Premier for the government's position, and himself as Premier , and also, I would like to note that the Premier indicated in his reply that the odd time it is necessary to go south. Sixty percent, or three of the last five positions, seems very odd, extremely odd, in fact, not odd any, it is beyond odd, and the issue of debate.

I am interested in debate, but can the Minister tell us, while we wait for this debate and the government continues to hire south, we are in a no-win situation as Ordinary Members. How do we reconcile that, again, when we are talking about a debate on a policy, when the government has shown by its record that it does not seem to be, at the senior level, that committed to the very issue that they want everyone else to take deeply to heart, including industry and mining, such as BHP? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To put it into proper perspective, I believe there is approximately 11 or 12 deputy ministers in this government, and ADMs I have lost track of. There are many senior management positions in this government, and out of that, like the Member said, three are hired from the south. Ultimately, the majority of them are, I guess, including some Members sitting in the House today, that did come from southern Canada from one time or the other. What I am saying is that our government is very committed to hiring in the north.

We have always been committed to hiring in the north, and we have always tried to find people to fill key positions for the government in the Northwest Territories.

When we were unable to do that, we did look south. We did not close the doors, or close the borders to the rest of Canada, and we can learn from southerners as well as southerners can learn from us. So, in looking at the numbers, in general, of senior management, and the numbers that were hired from southern Canada, and the total number of senior management that work for this government today, the numbers are very small. We should be looking at what people have to offer, and the only way we can really judge whether the decision was right or wrong, is whether they produce in the job they received. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Question 145-13(4): GNWT Hire North Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Oral questions. Mr. Henry .

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Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Finance . The federal government imposes income tax on all people in Canada who are employed. The federal government imposes a GST tax on everyone when they purchase goods and services. The NWT government imposes a payroll tax on all people working in the Northwest Territories, so from that perspective, I was very pleased to see in the budget that the Minister has recognized that people in the North are paying sufficient amount of taxes and that he is not having any new taxes in this budget. In response to Mr.

Picco regarding taxing fund raising activities of youth groups, such as bingo and so forth, the Minister unequivocally said that he would not consider that. As a means of generation, has the Minister considered the potential revenue that could be created by video lottery terminals? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This legislator and this Minister in my current position has not, at this time, done any research or any work on the revenues that would be generated should the Northwest Territories legislate approval for VLTs. Thank you.

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Return To Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry .

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Supplementary To Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

Seamus Henry

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister commit to having his staff look at the potential revenue generation and the negatives and positives that also seem to go along with this type of revenue? I understand each of these terminal units can generate up to half a million dollars per year for government. My question again, would the Minister have his officials look at the potentials, the negatives and positives of this type of revenue generation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Question 146-13(4): Video Lottery Terminals' Revenue

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 236

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the previous legislature, actually, we had done some work with respect to lotteries and casinos, et cetera. What I would be prepared to do would be to share with the Members, gather that information, which I think is still current, share that with