Debates of March 22nd, 2004

This is page numbers 113 - 182 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Fpt Meeting With Minister Pierre Pettigrew

Intergovernmental Forum Process

Environmental Tobacco Smoke Regulations

Congratulations To New Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper

Training And Education In The Sahtu Region

Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Dedication Of Hay River Doctors And Nurses

WCB Pension Benefits

Environmental Assessment Of The Mackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline

Scrutiny Of The Government's Main Estimates

Reductions To Departmental Travel Budgets

Role Of Elders In The Nwt

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

GNWT Travel Expenditures

GNWT Support To Small Communities

Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Development Responding To Oil And Gas

Youth Treatment Programs

Availability Of Legal Aid

Preparing For Oil And Gas Development

Written Question 4-15(3): Request For Travel Expenditures By Department

Written Question 5-15(3): Land And Resources Devolution Negotiations

Written Question 6-15(3): Private Power Generation And Sales

Committee Report 3-15(3): Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Report On The Review Of The Draft 2004-2005 Main Estimates

Motion That Committee Report 3-15(3) Be Received And Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Tabled Document 2-15(3): 2004-2005 Operations Expenditures: Travel Expenditure Reductions

Bill 2:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act

Bill 3:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Options For Measures To Stabilize Power Subsidy Costs

To Delete $120,000 From The Financial Management Board Secretariat Budgeting And Evaluation Re Foregone Interest

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allen , Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Honourable Henry Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 113

The Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 11-15(3): Fpt Meeting With Minister Pierre Pettigrew

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 113

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to report on my meeting last Friday with federal Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew; Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, Scott Brison; and my colleagues from the other provinces and territories.

In January, Prime Minister Martin made a commitment to Premiers that provinces and territories would be more directly involved in Canada-U.S. relations and international matters. He tasked Minister Pettigrew to find ways to implement this commitment.

Minister Pettigrew and provinces and territories reached a consensus at the Montreal meeting that specific proposals on the participation of provinces and territories in Canada-U.S. relations and international matters be developed for review by the Council of Federation in July and adopted at the First Ministers meeting this summer. The intent is to provide a formalized agreement that allows a significant role for provinces and territories in international relations.

Options will also be developed for review and adoption by First Ministers to coordinate the effective representation of provincial/territorial interests in Canada, U.S. policy and other intergovernmental aspects of Canada-U.S. relations.

The meeting provided an opportunity to get issues on the table and give direction to working groups on the product that is expected for this summer. There was consensus around the table that these proposals should reflect the commitment on all sides to make a new approach work and that success will require flexibility in arrangements to take into consideration international protocols.

Mr. Speaker, as I noted in this House last week, the Northwest Territories has a number of important interests related to Canada-U.S. relations and international affairs where we need and should be represented. Some of these issues include continental energy matters, ballistic missile defence and northern foreign policy. I had the opportunity to highlight NWT interests and the effect of policies and decisions taken by other governments in these areas during the roundtable discussions.

Mr. Speaker, in order to pursue our objective to become a have territory, it is critical that we continue to participate in these federal/provincial meetings to continue to build our relationships with our provincial and federal colleagues. This is not something that happens overnight. It will require a concerted and sustained effort to ensure that the interests of the Northwest Territories are considered in discussions amongst our partners in the federation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 11-15(3): Fpt Meeting With Minister Pierre Pettigrew

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 113

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Premier Handley.

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Minister's Statement 12-15(3): Intergovernmental Forum Process

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 113

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report to Members that a successful Intergovernmental Forum meeting was held on March 18th in Yellowknife.

The Aboriginal Summit was represented by President Robert Tordiff of the Northwest Territories Metis Nation; Chief Peter Liske from the Akaitcho Dene First Nations; Sahtu Dene Council Grand Chief Frank Andrew; Tlicho Grand Chief Joe Rabesca; Chief Richard Nerysoo representing the Gwich'in Tribal Council; Eddie Dillon from the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation; and, North Slave Metis Alliance President North Douglas.

I attend the meeting on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, along with the Honourable Floyd Roland , the Honourable Brendan Bell , the Honourable David Krutko and MLAs Kevin Menicoche , Robert Hawkins and Norman Yakeleya .

Mr. Speaker, the Intergovernmental Forum meeting discussions were very positive and served to renew our collective efforts to conclude a devolution and resource revenue sharing agreement within the term of the 15th Legislative Assembly. Further discussions centred on financing of governments, capacity building and the Economic Development Advisory Forum.

It was apparent from the meeting that leaders remain committed to the IGF process and recognize that we have a unique opportunity to move forward on important issues that affect the lives of the people of the NWT.

In addition to the meeting of the IGF, Minister Mitchell also took the opportunity during his visit to the NWT to sign the Northwest Territories lands and resources devolution framework agreement on behalf of Canada. Leaders representing aboriginal governments and the GNWT signed this agreement in January.

Mr. Speaker, the framework agreement is a process and

schedule agreement that sets out the groundwork for the negotiation of an agreement-in-principle and a final devolution agreement. It identifies the subject matters for negotiation and target dates for the next stages of negotiations.

A great deal of work remains to be done in order to reach our target of completing a final devolution agreement by 2005 and implementation in 2006. Our negotiation team is continuing its work with the other parties to ensure that a fair deal on devolution and resource revenue sharing is reached. I would like to congratulate the negotiation teams from all parties in reaching this milestone. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 12-15(3): Intergovernmental Forum Process

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 114

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister Bell .

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Minister's Statement 13-15(3): Environmental Tobacco Smoke Regulations

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 114

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Workers' Compensation Board of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut has engaged in progressive steps to strengthen regulations under the Safety Act and the Mine Health and Safety Act. These steps will protect northern workers from the proven negative health effects of second-hand smoke. They include research, public consultations and partnering with other government departments and outside agencies to address the serious workplace health issue of environmental tobacco smoke.

Mr. Speaker, second-hand smoke is not present in the workplace as a result of a manufacturing or work process, nor is it essential to any manufacturing or work process. Its presence is entirely discretionary. However, what is not optional are the damaging health effects for workers involuntarily exposed to second-hand smoke. This is why, effective May 1st this year, smoking will be against the law in workplaces within the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

In September 2003, the governance council of the WCB approved the environmental tobacco smoke regulations to remove or restrict the source of pollution in northern workplaces by banning tobacco smoke. It forwarded the regulations to the NWT and Nunavut Ministers responsible for the WCB.

The regulations require that:

• Employers prohibit workers' exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in enclosed work sites.

• Workers cannot smoke in enclosed work sites.

• Limited exceptions are made for private residential units, institutional facilities and live-in work camps.

• Workers and Employers who fail to abide by the regulations may be fined.

Mr. Speaker, in December of 2003 the regulations were approved in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, calling for implementation throughout the NWT and Nunavut effective May 1, 2004. I want to assure employers that information and expertise is available from the WCB to help them comply with the new law.

In keeping with this vision and mission, the WCB continues to assist workers and employers in the North to make workplaces safer in northern Canada.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT and Nunavut have become national leaders in worker safety in the industrial disease area as a result of these comprehensive regulations. I want to pay tribute to my predecessor, the Honourable Joseph Handley , and his colleagues of the day for introducing these important improvements. I congratulate all who were involved in moving these regulations through to the implementation stage of May 1, 2004, and look forward to ensuring a healthier work environment for all northern workers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 13-15(3): Environmental Tobacco Smoke Regulations

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 114

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Congratulations To New Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 114

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I rise in this House today to congratulate the first duly-elected leader of the Conservative Party of Canada: Mr. Stephen Harper. The other candidates, Ms. Belinda Stronach and Mr. Tony Clement, should also be recognized for putting themselves forward to challenge for this important function in the new Conservative Party's short history.

I will be inviting Mr. Harper to visit the North in the near future so that we can learn and understand how a Conservative government under Mr. Harper would treat northern Canada and the Northwest Territories in particular. On Saturday, Conservatives from across the country voted on the united right in trying to put an end to Paul Martin and his Liberal Government's scandalous decade-old regime. Canadians and Northerners alike are getting tired of the arrogance, corruption and waste coming out of Ottawa.

Mr. Speaker, with the election of Mr. Harper, Canadians and northerners will finally have an alternative to the Liberals, and taxpayers from across the country should rejoice. I would like to wish the recently minted Western Arctic Riding Association and their executive the best of luck in finding a candidate for the riding in the upcoming federal election. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Congratulations To New Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 114

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Training And Education In The Sahtu Region

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 114

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi. Mr. Speaker, we're living in exciting times. The Minister of Finance's budget address highlighted the economic development opportunities that we have to look forward to in the Northwest Territories in the coming years.

Nonetheless, Mr. Speaker, we as an Assembly face some hefty challenges to ensure that residents of the Northwest Territories will benefit from this economic growth.

Residents of the Sahtu are well positioned to benefit from the proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline, but only if they're prepared with the necessary education and training to take advantage of the employment opportunities directly and indirectly associated with the oil and gas industry of the Northwest Territories.

The Northwest Territories oil and gas industrial skills strategy, put together by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment along with the federal, aboriginal and industry partners, lays out a good plan to get our people ready. The last Assembly did a lot of planning, but there is a lot left to do.

Mr. Speaker, as I see it, the key to get the people of the Sahtu ready to benefit from the proposed pipeline is a jointly-managed approach. There has to be community focus. Aboriginal, federal and territorial governments must be in full dialogue to understand the particular needs of the Sahtu. The proposed pipeline is a one-time event, Mr. Speaker. If the residents of the Sahtu are not prepared, job opportunities will be lost to southerners. We do not want to see this happen, Mr. Speaker. I am very optimistic about the future goals of the people of the Sahtu region. Mr. Speaker, this is an issue I will be watching very closely. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Training And Education In The Sahtu Region

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 115

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 115

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 2001 a major legislative review of the Workers' Compensation Board for Nunavut and the NWT was conducted, and this report was presented to the Ministers and resulted here in this legislature, Mr. Speaker, in June 2003, with several major amendments to the legislative side of the Workers' Compensation Act. It was, within its terms of reference, a very well-prepared and a very well-documented report.

But there remains, Mr. Speaker, a significant piece of unfinished business. One of the principal recommendations of this report, which is called Act Now, was to conduct an operational review of the Workers' Compensation Board. What I would like to do, Mr. Speaker, is just read a couple of lines from this report that helps to establish just how significant this recommendation is.

The panel did receive comments from stakeholders about their dealings with the WCB. This was encouraging, but in the panel's view a positive comment should be the norm.

What the panel heard tells us is that the workers' compensation system has become an adversarial one between stakeholders and the WCB. The panel does not believe that legislative change alone will address the many operational issues raised by stakeholders. The panel views legislation as a means to an end. A change to legislation cannot ensure a change to operational attitude.

This is why, Mr. Speaker, it's time to take this very serious recommendation forward on behalf not only of a number of my constituents, but workers across the NWT and Nunavut to seek the attention and the priority that an operational review of the WCB deserves. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 115

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Dedication Of Hay River Doctors And Nurses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 115

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the last nine years, I have frequently gotten up in this Assembly and spoken about the doctor and nurse shortages at the H.H. Williams Memorial Hospital and the Hay River Medical Clinic. I could do that today as Hay River once again finds itself short of doctors and nurses.

However, Mr. Speaker, in today's statement I would like to comment on the positive. I would like to publicly commend all of the doctors and nurses in Hay River who are working through the latest shortage in medical practitioners to provide the best possible care that they can for the residents of Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, when times are good and all of the doctors and nurses positions are fully staffed, I am not sure that people really appreciate all the hard work that medical practitioners put in. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that everyone involved in the medical profession in Hay River is working to capacity to deal with this latest staffing emergency, and I can also tell you that it is greatly appreciated.

But, Mr. Speaker, in any system that is staffed by people who are working past their point of capacity, you will see people begin to burn out. We cannot afford to lose any more doctors and nurses to burnout. I know of doctors and nurses who liked it in Hay River but could not stay because of the workload imposed by chronic staffing shortages. It is a vicious cycle. We lose doctors and nurses for whatever reasons, which causes the doctors and nurses who stay to pick up the workload, which causes them to burn out, which causes them to move on, which makes us worse off than we were before the whole cycle began.

Mr. Speaker, I know the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority is working hard to fill the empty medical professional positions in Hay River, and I know the Department of Health and Social Services will offer any assistance they can to the Hay River authority. So I say to the doctors and nurses in Hay River who are dealing with the present staffing shortage to please hang in there, help is hopefully on the way.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to take a minute to publicly commend Dr. Dalia Bernard for her dedication and commitment to the people of Hay River. We are truly fortunate to have such a caring person in our community, and I hope that she will be there for many years to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Dedication Of Hay River Doctors And Nurses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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WCB Pension Benefits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to raise an issue that came up during the election campaign last fall. In speaking to a resident in Hay River, the gentleman and his wife brought up an issue regarding the WCB benefits.

Mr. Speaker, by way of background, this gentleman was unfortunately injured on the job several years ago and, as a result, he receives a monthly WCB pension which he will continue to receive until his death. Mr. Speaker, the injured worker brought up an interesting point, that WCB pension benefits cease upon the death of the injured worker, unlike other pensions such as the Canada pension and private pension plans. Mr. Speaker, other pension plans provide benefits to the surviving spouse,

whereas WCB pensions do not unless the injured worker dies as a direct result of the injury.

Mr. Speaker, as I have stated, in the Northwest Territories WCB pension benefits end with the death of the injured worker. Exceptions to this policy only occur in the provinces of Nova Scotia, Quebec and Saskatchewan where they continue to pay benefit to the surviving spouse for a period of three months. In the case of Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan, they may also continue to pay other conditional benefits to the deceased worker if the deceased worker qualifies.

Mr. Speaker, I will have some questions for the appropriate Minister during question period. I think that in most cases we should recognize individuals and their spouse as one. So at the appropriate time I will have questions for the Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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WCB Pension Benefits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Environmental Assessment Of The Mackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A recent news release on the topic of the Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline regulatory process requires this government to give certainty to the influence it has over the environmental assessment for the pipeline. Mr. Speaker, a speculative time frame and a series of deadlines raises enormous concerns for the investment and the exploration sector that my riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes so much relies on. Of great importance is the concern that a spokesman for Imperial Oil says delays in the regulatory process could derail the proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline. The report also says that Imperial Oil is looking at renewed prospects of Alaskan gas coming to market.

Mr. Speaker, I have often spoken about our level of industrial investment in the Northwest Territories, and now I feel it's time to step into the influential role that we must play to support a Mackenzie Valley pipeline. Failing this, exploration for oil and gas could conceivably falter as it did in the mid-80s to the early 2000s.

Inuvik Twin Lakes has always been on record to support the oil and gas sector, so let's put this on the priority list of this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Environmental Assessment Of The Mackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Lee .

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Scrutiny Of The Government's Main Estimates

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as our constituents are well aware, this House is going through the review, debate and approval of the government's budget for the upcoming fiscal year 2004-05, and I would just like to let my constituents know what rules and standards I am following in providing my comments and deciding on my votes where they occur in this House with regard to the budget.

First of all, Mr. Speaker, I believe it's important that we value every taxpayer dollar and that we are intimately aware of the high cost of living in the North and, yes, including in the city of Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, our residents are overburdened with the high cost of housing, taxes, fuel, power and water. It is our job to make sure that we do everything we can in our power to tighten our belts in house and keep the government spending on a tight rein, before we make any decision to raise taxes that would increase the cost of living and cost of doing business in the North.

Mr. Speaker, towards that goal, I have been asking for a breakdown on all categories under expenses in the government budget for every division and department. This is because I believe it's important that I get in-depth and accurate figures on what our expenditures are before I can make constructive suggestions as to where we might tighten our belt.

The second area, Mr. Speaker, that I would let my constituents know as to how I make my decisions is that there are essential spending decisions that we must make, and that's in the areas of education and health and other important areas of spending. My role is to make sure that we save where we can; that we make sure that we have enough money to provide programs and services that we need to provide; and, thirdly, when all else fails and if the government proves to me that we have no way to go but to raise taxes, that's the only time when I would agree with the plan of increasing taxes.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to let my constituents know what it is I'm spending my time doing here and what rules I'm following. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Scrutiny Of The Government's Main Estimates

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

The Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Just to remind Members if there is anything which is presently under review in Committee of the Whole, such as taxes, these are issues which are before the House and should not be brought up through your Member's statement. I've just touched on it, but I will give you some leeway.

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Scrutiny Of The Government's Main Estimates

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 116

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Hawkins .

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Reductions To Departmental Travel Budgets

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to talk about the NWT travel budget. Mr. Speaker, to the untrained eye, the travel budget for the Government of the Northwest Territories is quite scary. My concern is, as I see it, that there truly is no official policy or accountability with numbers being nailed down. All of these numbers are dug out from historical numbers and given to us as prospective numbers for the future. The budget for 2002-2003 actuals totalled $22.5 million. That seems so large. It could almost be a department on its own.

Mr. Speaker, I observe that this travel budget truly is difficult for even a guy like myself to nail down and truly get a good grip when they say we have 25 percent reduction across the board. The way it's designed, Mr. Speaker, seems that if there is money left over, that could potentially be travel money. I think that causes concern to all Members here.

Later today, Mr. Speaker, I will be directing my questions to the appropriate minister and asking if they will be willing to bring the total global travel budget under the control of their ministry. Mr. Speaker, I would like to see that Minister take control, lead by example, grab the travel budget, organize it under that department, define clear policies, and demonstrate clear accountability of management on this valuable resource of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Reductions To Departmental Travel Budgets

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Villeneuve .

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Role Of Elders In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to speak about the elders in our society, Mr. Speaker. As we are all aware, the number of elders in the NWT is steadily increasing. We are realizing the benefits the elders and seniors are contributing to our society as volunteers and for which they do not seek any fiscal or monetary returns for their contributions which are quite great.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT Seniors' Society will be meeting later on this week with some of the Members and attending a luncheon in the Legislative Assembly's Great Hall to socialize with government representatives to address some of the collective concerns such as issues on taxation, active living, medical assistance and other issues that the elders should be continually revisiting year after year with this government.

Mr. Speaker, we all seem to acknowledge the growing importance of seniors to ensuring the success of many programs and services of this government. We almost seem to overlook and under fund the essential programs and services that seniors depend on every day and rely on more and more as time goes on. I hope that we can, in this new budget, give more consideration for the true value of the work that seniors do for society which often goes unnoticed and unacknowledged by this government. Mr.

Speaker, I hope that this government in the 15th Legislative Assembly will address some of the ongoing concerns that these seniors are going to be bringing to this House in the coming weeks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Role Of Elders In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 117

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Allen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 117

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure today to recognize someone who made a great contribution to this vast northland in terms of his sporting career, a fellow team mate and a fellow collegian from Grollier Hall, I would like to recognize Mr. Ernie Lennie, 1976 Olympian.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 117

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Yakeleya .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 117

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me even greater pleasure to recognize Mr. Ernie Lennie in the gallery. Ernie is the chief negotiator for the Tulita Yamoria Community Secretariat and a cousin and good friend of mine. I would like to welcome him to the Assembly. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 117

The Speaker

David Krutko

Welcome. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 117

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I can't see from here, but I know that a little earlier on, present in the gallery was a familiar face to Members of the Assembly and a constituent of Great Slave, Mr. John Huffman. I would like to recognize him this afternoon. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 117

The Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. For those people who haven't been recognized in the gallery, I would like to welcome you to the House. Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 43-15(3): GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 117

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be directing my question to the Minister of Finance . Would the Minister of Finance be willing to lead with vision and demonstrate true accountability to all of our territorial citizens by bringing the whole global territorial budget under the Department of Finance for control purposes? Thank you.

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Question 43-15(3): GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 117

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance .

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Return To Question 43-15(3): GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Question 43-15(3): GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 117

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I intend to lead with vision and accountability and be transparent to the people of the Northwest Territories. I might have a little difficulty in getting a message across and having my Cabinet colleagues

forego some of their responsibility in the area of travel for their specific departments. I would gladly look at what we can do in the area I have specific control of and also setting direction as has been done by setting the direction for 25 percent reduction in discretionary travel. In those areas, yes, Mr. Speaker, we would gladly look at what options we have available, and what we can do to make our system more accountable and more transparent for the public. Thank you.

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Return To Question 43-15(3): GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Question 43-15(3): GNWT Departmental Travel Budgets

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened to my honourable colleague, Jane Groenewegen , about the health care services in her community, especially the word "burnout." Mr. Speaker, we, in the Sahtu region, are also faced with the quality of health care services in our region. Mr. Speaker, the nurses are faced with numerous challenges and are forced to deal with many demands from the people they serve. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services , does the Minister agree that the people in need of health care are entitled to be treated professionally and compassionately when they seek help in the health care system?

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Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell me what avenues residents have to make complaints about the conduct of health care workers and what systems are in place for those complaints to be mediated?

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Supplementary To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Currently, in the Sahtu, there is a period of transition between the Inuvik authority and the Sahtu authority being up and running on its own, but there is a CEO in the Sahtu region. As well, there is a CEO in Inuvik. Those are two avenues. There are other professionals that nurses report to who can be approached. Of course, they have the avenue, if they feel they are not being duly heard, to approach their MLA, who has full-time access to me as Minister.

If there is a serious formal complaint, if that complaint is put in writing, then we will initiate the appropriate review with the appropriate expertise to make sure that the review is done properly and that they adjudicate and make recommendations at the end. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Minister. Can the Minister tell me what supports are available for nurses in terms of cross-cultural training and ongoing support in order for them to deal with the stresses and challenges of working in small communities in the Sahtu?

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Supplementary To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as was pointed out in this House yesterday, the issue of cross-cultural training is one where there's a gap in service. Currently it's left to each authority and board to implement and carry on with cross-cultural training as required. One of the problems we have with high turnover of staff, especially nurses in the small communities, is being able to, in fact, do that in a timely way. So there is through the boards the capacity to set up that kind of training. Is it being done as effectively as it could be? I believe it's an area that I've already committed to looking at with the authorities and board Chairs. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Question 44-15(3): Health Care Workers In The Sahtu Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I raised in my Member's statement today, we have had an inordinate turnover of some very good staff in Hay River over the past few years. It's difficult for those of us looking at the situation from the outside to understand why this occurs. We thought we had dealt with issues of competitive compensation packages and professional development initiatives and quite a number of other things which were important to the health care professionals in the Northwest Territories, which certainly encompassed workers in Hay River. Mr.

Speaker, there continues to appear to be other contributing factors to the turnover in Hay River. I would like to ask the Minister what he's prepared to do about the current shortages and the seemingly indefinable cause for this high turnover. Thank you.

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Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 118

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct. We have spent a considerable amount of money in terms of making sure our packages for the allied health professions are competitive. We have some of the best packages in the country as we stand here today. The issue of turnover is one that is of concern. There are still shortages in many communities. In a community like Hay River, one of the issues that come to mind, as Minister, would be why

people would be choosing to leave. Were there exit interviews done? If we have an historical pattern going back over the last year or two that indicates a high turnover in spite of all the efforts that have been made to make the system attractive and competitive, that would be one of the first things that I would be looking at as Minister to try to ascertain, along with the Member, what would be the underlying causes for this. Thank you.

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Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had occasion at some point to look at the terms of reference for a review that was conducted at Stanton Territorial Hospital. It seemed like the short list of issues that review looked at may have been questions very well applied to our situation in Hay River as well. In terms of getting to the bottom of this, would the Minister be prepared to embark on any kind of a formal process, similar to the one that was conducted at Stanton? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I met a few weeks ago with the board chairs and the CEOs and I indicated to them at that time that I had the intention as Minister and as a system to take a look at each authority and the department and do a thorough review of all aspects of the services that they deliver and how they're delivered, including the human resources side, finances, and the program side. I'd like to do that over the next year. If there's a specific concern that is pressing, then I'm interested and committed to look at, for example as my colleagues pointed out, possible human resource issues. I'm prepared to look at those as well.

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Further Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister mentions the board and the board chair and the CEO. I'd like to ask what the boards' responsibilities are with respect to the human resource management issues on a day-to-day basis. Under our protocol and existing roles and responsibilities, is that something that the health boards are actually supposed to delve into? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the boards currently in place are boards of management under legislation. They have a clear role, as well as we've spent quite a bit of time over the last two years developing a manual and job description for authorities and board members. Their role is not to manage on a day-to-day basis. There is a CEO that reports to each board who is charged with that responsibility.

To be clear, while they are boards of management, their role is not to micromanage on a day-to-day basis, but occupy themselves with budget issues, program issues and dealing with the concerns that may arise at the community level, possibly in terms of some of the broad underlying issues that may result in staff turnover. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so it's my understanding then that the boards that are put in place and the chairs are not responsible for these human resource management issues. It's my understanding from having been a Cabinet Minister before that it's not really the responsibility of a Minister to get involved in the human resource management issues. So would the Minister agree with me then that perhaps an independent body to go in and look at this might be the best and the most productive choice in this instance? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

As the Member phrased it, it might be, but it's not a particular course of action I think we want to take first. I'd like to look at some of the issues I raised in terms of taking a look at the turnover rates over the last two to three years and to see what the trends may be. Then we'd have a lot of very capable human resource people that work in other boards and other authorities and in headquarters, both in the department as well as the Executive corporate human resources, that could probably give us a good start in terms of trying to ascertain if there are underlying issues we should be paying attention to on the human resource side. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 45-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Inuvik-Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm going to make reference to my Member's statement. It's in regard to the oil and gas development exploration sector in the Inuvik region. I'm going to ask the Minister of RWED if he would direct his secretariat or directorate to approach the regular process with the intent that we need to have our message clearly given to the various members of that board so that we have certainty in the exploration side of the industry. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 119

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's obvious to all of us that certainty is something that

industry requires if they're going to invest money. I think that certainty will only be garnered by working with the stakeholders and making sure that their positions and their understanding of the issues before them are brought to bear.

Now, I think as it relates to the regulatory process, we have established the cooperation plan, this joint panel review process. It's certainly one that this government is supportive of and has endorsed. I think that doesn't negate the real requirement for this government to get behind this process and make sure that we've indicated it's a priority. Some of our efforts and our funding are going to have to follow to make sure that we pay more than lip service to this priority.

I think a great start was the proposal and suggestion by the Member for Sahtu that this Legislature convene a joint committee of Regular Members and Cabinet Members to talk about exactly this issue and others. I'm certainly hopeful that our Cabinet -- I know we're analyzing this -- will be supportive and make overtures to the Regular Members. I think that's a good start. Thank you.

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With all due respect, I want to express my gratitude to the Minister for that. Although it still talks a little bit about the pipeline, we still need to give certainty to the exploration companies and that their investment is protected as well. I want to ask the Minister again if he's prepared to develop an intervener status type of an approach that we can give all of our industrial investment some priority in this manner as well, besides the pipeline issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I need a little more information as to what the Member proposes intervener status would comprise, but I think it's important for us to recognize that although this pipeline is the immediate task before us and I believe it's important for the Members of this House to put their efforts firmly behind this, we must recognize that this is part of a much bigger picture. That picture is the Mackenzie Valley development in general. I think that the pipeline is the first step, and once this pipeline goes ahead obviously that's going to open up a lot of new territory for exploration.

Suddenly there's a conduit to get this gas to the lower 48 and the insatiable American demand for gas can start to be fed by our gas in the Northwest Territories. I think that will, in itself, provide much more certainty to exploration companies that should they find pools of gas they can now get them to market. This is one of many issues that I think this joint committee needs to take up. Thank you.

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly it generates concern from our constituency in the fact that there was a news release by the spokesman for Imperial Oil saying that they may be looking at Alaskan gas as another prospect. I'm just wondering if we can get a commitment from the Minister if he would now direct his officials to perhaps define whether our gas remains still a priority to the North American gas market. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

We can certainly have those discussions, but there's no doubt in my mind and I believe this government has been very clear that we believe that NWT gas should be a Canadian priority. We think it is a Canadian priority. We think this project is of a much more realistic scope than some of the Alaskan gas. No doubt at some point both of these projects will be developed. The demand in the lower 48 and the continental energy strategy I think envisions both projects. I think it's more realistic that the NWT project will come on stream first.

Certainly we can have some discussions with the Producers Group to make sure that their minds haven't been changed. I haven't seen the recent interview that the Member speaks to, but the last time I did have a chance to sit down with the Producers Group they were still firmly behind this project and believe that it will go forward. Thank you.

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Question 46-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Regulatory Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in following up on my statement about keeping the government accountable in their expenditures, I'd like to ask questions today to the Minister of Finance in regard to the government's travel budget. Mr. Speaker, last Friday Members received information from the Minister on the government travel expenditures. I must say, Mr. Speaker, that I was shocked to see some of these figures. For 2002 and 2003 the government has actually spent $22 million on travel.

When you consider in the Minister of Finance's budget address when he stated that in these last five years the operating expenditure grew by $212 million and if the government spends about $22 million on travel every year, that's about $110 million in the last five years just on travel. The reason why we have a deficit is that revenue in that time only grew by $134 million, which would tell us that we're spending most of our revenue growth in the last five years on travel. I'd like to know from the Minister as to whether or not there are any guidelines in deciding what the travel budget of every department is.

Thank you.

---Applause

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 120

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, each department goes through the exercise of building their budgets. Within each director position and so on there would be forms for substantiation requesting dollars for areas of travel or other budget areas. So each department would build their budget up and require some travel and go forward on that basis. Now, they'd have to substantiate what they're going to spend their dollars on and how much they've highlighted for specifically travel in certain areas.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we should be clear that the figures that were used by the Member of the $22 million figure also includes that of medical travel and other things that we consider as non-discretionary. I believe the discretionary amount of travel adjusted for 2002-2003 would be in the area of $13 million. Thank you.

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given the answer of the Minister, I would suggest that the government has a lot of room to look at their travel budget and tighten it up a little. Mr. Speaker, I do accept that there are some adjustments that could be made in these figures, but I do not believe this figure includes medical travel because under Health and Social Services it's only allocated for $1.1 million and I think there's a lot higher medical travel there.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to know whether or not employees are required to write any kind of report or indication as to where they travelled, what they did while they were there and what sort of results were produced from these travels. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the reporting required for each department's travel would be under the responsibility of each Minister and how they handle their department and the reporting requirements that happen there. As well, a lot of the travel that's in there is to do with either the health boards or education boards and how we go about that. I agree with the Member that as a government we need to look at our travel budget situation. That is why we sent out the initial message that 25 percent of this is targeted for reduction. Each department has gone through and implemented that.

We're going to take the advice of Members who have said look at that line more critically and see what else we can do. We will aim at doing that as we go through the budget process, especially for the business plan process that's coming up in the spring. Thank you.

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I should also state that I do understand that our employees need to travel to a certain extent. We like to see them in communities and I know a lot of them are required to travel to do their job. But when we think of the fact that we are trying to introduce legislation that would increase taxes to raise $1 million, we shudder at the thought of raising taxes to collect $1 million. When you see a travel budget of $22 million you have to think about what your priorities are.

Mr. Speaker, I have a question about the way the government keeps track of the travel budget. As the Minister indicated, under RWED where there's $10 million allocated that was spent for travel last year, $7.5 million of that is for fire suppression and fire suppression travel requirements. Now I'm wondering, why are things like that included in the travel budget when there's already a different category or division for fire suppression? Why are you keeping your books this way? Can it be done any better? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we can definitely look at how we account for this, but the specific area was in travel so anything to do with transportation was included. Those contracts included are to do with the aircraft that are used in that area. I believe those amounts were backed out to show that was more of a non-discretionary item. It was something that's required of the contract; also a number of Justice trips are pulled off because they're required for court duty.

We will look at how we account for that, but to come up with an accurate number, anything to do with transportation...The case specifically raised by the Member was to do with the aircraft transportation to fulfill that department's commitment. Thank you.

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister provide this House with the breakdown on how many people travelled to where? Maybe not to every community, but at least break down by north of 60, north to south and international travel for every department travel budget. Could the Minister provide that within the time of our budget debate? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will endeavour to pull those numbers together. I will go to each of the Ministers and ask them to pull that from their departments and try to have something for this House. Thank you.

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Question 47-15(3): GNWT Travel Expenditures

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 121

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to follow up on last week's enquiry to the Premier with

reference to the final report of the Special Joint Committee on Non-Tax-Based Community Affairs, and the report was labelled, "Strengthening GNWT Support to Smaller Communities." What is being done by our government in the 15th Assembly to implement some of the recommendations of the report?

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Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, we are very much aware of that report that was done and, in fact, it's one of the cornerstones that was used as we pulled our budget together. So, Mr. Speaker, to give a lot of detail on what each department is doing, I would have to ask the other departments to pull information together and provide that detail. I don't have it in front of me. Thank you.

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Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Being a representative of many small communities, this report is of special interest to me, especially when the report talks about looking at multi-year funding for the smaller communities so they don't have to spend all their time doing annual funding proposals; the proposals are the same year after year.

Another issue raised in the report is when government visits these communities -- it's still happening today; one department shows up at 11:00 a.m. to be followed by another department at 2:00 p.m. -- there is still no coordination happening at the community level; it still looks like our government is not coordinated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Premier if there is some coordinated effort to implement any of these recommendations from this report.

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Supplementary To Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the regional level, there is an effort to try to coordinate travel, attendance at meetings and so on. I know regional superintendents meet on a regular basis. In only one of our regions we have a regional director, but in other situations the superintendents try to work together to make sure this doesn't happen. Unfortunately, with the amount of activity going on, that kind of problem does take place at times and we will do our best to control it.

Mr. Speaker, I should also remind the Member that we do the report on expenditures by geographical region and by community, and that information is available. I hope that over time, as our government goes through its term, we'll see a better spending pattern happen there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 48-15(3): GNWT Support To Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Braden .

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Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. In December of 2001, more than two years ago now, the panel that was sent out to look at legislative changes came back with a recommendation to conduct an independent review of WCB operations. In making that recommendation, it went on to say it should be done with a view to recommending system-wide change in structure, process and attitudes.

The panel believes such an operational review is of utmost importance and should be conducted immediately, prior even to the enactment of any legislative changes arising from the report. So it seems that we've already jumped the gun perhaps by adopting this report and not proceeding on an operational review. My question, Mr. Speaker, is what plans does the Minister have for working with his Nunavut counterpart to engage in an independent review of WCB operations. Thank you.

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Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the work done and the Act Now report, the work done by the legislative review panel, was good. I was with the Member on the committee that looked at the phase I changes and implementation of those changes in the life of the last government. I think the Member is aware that we will be coming forward with phase II now to clean up the remainder of the recommendations that need to be addressed, and I'm optimistic that we can do that early in the life of this government.

If we know that there are things that need to be addressed...In the last Assembly, we recognized, as a committee, that, for instance, the Appeals Tribunal needed to be more independent. We made those kinds of recommendations and those were addressed.

The WCB Board of Governors came forward with some proposals to change staff reporting relationships and things like this, and I think that was a welcome change. My concern about an operational review would be we could conceivably spend a heck of a lot of money with very vague terms of reference and not have much we can work with as a result. So I would want to sit down with committee and talk about the things that we've heard from our constituents that need to be addressed, and see if we can't do something about those first.

I'm not ruling out an operational review, but obviously it has to be done in conjunction with Nunavut. I think that we need to get together as a committee and talk about some of the things that we've been hearing from our constituents. Thank you.

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Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 122

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the Minister is absolutely right; that the requirements and the views that we've heard from stakeholders during the legislative review are the ones we should be paying attention to. I'm not really satisfied with the answer that we can perhaps go around

and do some selective tinkering. I really do believe that a full-scale operational review is necessary. I have one constituent, for instance, who has waited 10 months for a first-level decision, six months for a second-level decision, and more than five months now for a date yet to be scheduled for a tribunal-level appeal. So the status quo just isn't working. I want to press the Member again: What is the hang-up for not engaging a full-scale operational review? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

As I've said, my only concern with a full-scale study, full-scale review, is that it could cost a lot of money and not make much of a difference unless we sit down to talk about the terms of reference and sit down to talk about what exactly we hope to achieve and what the deliverable result would be at the end of the day.

The Auditor General did do an extraordinary review for the WCB in 2002. The report makes a number of suggestions, and that has been received now by myself. It makes a number of suggestions that relate to management processes and potential improvements. I could certainly sit down and speak to the ordinary Members, and I had planned to bring this to committee anyway for discussion. But I think there are some things that are underway that would improve the operational efficiency of the WCB, and I think we should have a discussion about those before we set off on some course to spend a lot of money without much of a sense of where we're going. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Bill Braden

Great Slave

The Minister brings forward an offer here that is hard to refuse, that at least we should sit down and look over these things. But he seems to have precluded that it's not going to get us anywhere because it will be really expensive and take a long time. I would like to hear the Minister state more clearly, if he wishes to, of course, Mr. Speaker, that he will engage in a discussion with Members of this House and with his Nunavut counterpart to look at how an operational review could be projected. Will he at least give us that assurance? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you. I will certainly sit down and discuss the issue with my Nunavut counterpart for the WCB, and would also propose that I come before committee. We have to discuss the phase II legislative changes that need to be implemented. Obviously, I need committee support in order to make those changes, and everything is on the table. We can talk about a whole range of issues, and if the committee believes that they make sense, then I'm not resisting that.

I am reluctant to chart off on some operational review that at the end of the day doesn't get us much in the way of deliverables. So I would like to make sure that there's a very succinct and clearly-articulated direction before we move forward on something like this. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to joining in the Minister's articulation of all those other difficult words, too. We've got still more significant employment situations ahead of us: Snap Lake mine, perhaps 500 jobs over the next 20 years; the pipeline that may peak at 7,000 construction jobs. Would the Minister consider that an operational review now will help us prepare for this new era, this new generation, in fact this tidal wave of new workers? Aren't we going to be able to put that to good use in the near future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's no doubt with the pace of resource development in the Northwest Territories that we have to be prepared for it and the WCB has to be prepared for it. I know this is something that the Board of Governors has been discussing. Obviously, there's going to be a lot of work related to oil and gas, related to mining in the future, and we do have to have a plan of action for being able to deal with that and make sure that our legislation is prepared and up to snuff and that the organization is able to handle the increased workload. I think anything that can further that goal makes sense.

Again, I'm certainly willing to sit down and discuss that with the committee as we move forward. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Question 49-15(3): Operational Review Of The Workers' Compensation Board

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, keeping with the topic of WCB and following up on my Member's statement, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for WCB why it is that WCB benefits end with the death of an injured worker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 123

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, for the pensions that are paid to workers, there are a number of different approaches that can be taken, but there really is no getting around the fact that when we look at pensions being paid out, the bulk of those pensions are paid for by deductions collected from employers. If we want to further enrich pensions of any nature, then we have to find a way to pay for it. As I say, there just is no magic and we have to make sure that the system is sustainable and can be afforded. So any additional changes that we might

propose to make we have to find a way to pay for them. Thank you.

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Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I suspect any pension plans are paid for by either employees or taxpayers as a source of revenue. What makes the WCB pension policy different than any other pension plan, such as Canada pension plan or any private pension plans? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

They are pensions paid to workers to compensate them for injury on the job. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, is this policy the same for any type of injury? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

I would have to get back to the Member with further detail on the range of injuries and how they are treated by the pensions. I would make one point though that there are no taxpayer dollars, per se, going into these pensions. They are collected from employers. Recently, January 1, 2004, the governance council of the WCB did approve an increase of 3.35 percent for all pensions, helping keep the pensions in line with the cost of living. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it does appear maybe somewhat unfair if a person gets injured on the job and it disrupts the family income and then dies a short time after, let's say, that the income ceases upon the death of the injured worker. Would the Minister be willing to take this up with the WCB and look at this situation and see if there are any potential changes that could be made to the policy in this respect? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 124

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll certainly get the detail of these pensions and find out how spousal benefits and these kinds of things are affected, and what the current status quo, in effect, is. We can have discussion about that before we talk about improvements to the pension plan. I think it's best for me to find out exactly what the pension plan comprises. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 50-15(3): Workers' Compensation Board Benefits

Question 50-15(3): Wor