Debates of Jan. 23rd, 1998

This is page numbers 279 - 297 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was financial .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Northwest Territories Child Benefit

Morale Of Pangnirtung Teachers

Congratulations To Nursing Graduate Laureen Angalik

Fundraising Efforts Of Taloyoak Adult Training Students

Passing Of Fred Henne

Pelican Rapids Inn Reopening

Assistance To Ice Storm Victims

Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Financial Support For Students

Stickhandling In The Political Arena

Private/public Partnerships

Passing Of Erasmus Family Patriarchs

Comments Of Mr. Miltenberger

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Management Board Performance

Nursing Assistants' Program

Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Pay Equity Resolution

Public/private Partnerships Task Force

Funding For Community Firefighting

Committee Report 2-13(5): Government Operations Committee Report On The Review Of The 1998-99 Main Estimates

Committee Report 3-13(5): Infrastructure Committee Report On The Review Of The 1998-99 Main Estimates

Committee Report 4-13(5): Resource Management Committee Reports On The Review Of The 1998-99 Main Estimates

Committee Report 5-13(5): Social Programs Committee Report On The Review Of The 1998-99 Main Estimates

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Enuaraq , Mr. Erasmus , Mr. Evaloarjuk , Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Henry , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Honourable Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable Manitok Thompson , Honourable John Todd .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco . Good morning. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 20-13(5): Northwest Territories Child Benefit

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 279

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, in his budget address, the Minister of Finance announced yesterday the new Northwest Territories Child Benefit, which will come into effect this July.

Ensuring that all our children have a strong start in life is critical to the future of the Northwest Territories. By making children everybody's priority, we can help build a better future for our children and for our society.

Recognizing this, federal, provincial and territorial governments came together to work on behalf of Canada's children. At the First Ministers' Meeting in June, 1996, the Prime Minister and Premiers made tackling child poverty a collective priority. They identified support for low-income families as critical in helping parents to better meet their children's needs. In 1997, the federal government announced the National Child Benefit.

This is an innovative and progressive approach for investing in children, designed by federal/provincial/territorial Ministers responsible for Social Services and coordinated by the Council on Social Policy Renewal.

The National Child Benefit requires the participation of both the federal government and provincial/territorial governments. As its initial contribution to this initiative, the federal government will provide an additional $850 million per year to enhance the National Child Benefit as a common income platform across the country. This commitment, which takes effect in July, 1998, will increase income support benefits for all low-income families with children. The territorial government is obliged to reduce income support payments equal to the amount paid by the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Finance indicated in his budget address, this saving of income support money and $2 million additional monies from the territorial government will be invested in additional benefits to children in the north. With this funding, nearly 60 percent of NWT children will receive some benefits under the joint program. For example, a working family with four children and an annual income under $20,921 will receive $5,900 per year or almost $500 per month in addition to their regular income.

--Applause

This program, a joint initiative of the Departments of Finance and Education, Culture and Employment, is an initial step towards a more comprehensive agenda for children and youth that will be developed over the coming year.

The National Child Benefit, together with the reinvestment of income support funds, which are freed up, as well as additional monies from the territorial government, represents a substantial attack on child poverty in the north. Mr. Speaker, it is critical that we continue to place the highest priority on improving living conditions - now and in the future - for our children who are, indeed, our future. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 20-13(5): Northwest Territories Child Benefit

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 279

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 20-13(5): Northwest Territories Child Benefit

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 279

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Member's Statement 67-13(5): Morale Of Pangnirtung Teachers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 279

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and good morning. Mr. Speaker, the morale of the teaching staff in the community of Pangnirtung is at an all time low. There has been an increase in enrolment but not an increase in funding to school programs. For the last three years, there has been a drop in funding for education programs in Pangnirtung. This puts pressure on teachers to make do with very limited resources, students are not able to use programs that they were entitled to in the past. The recent contract signed between the GNWT and the teachers has put extra financial pressure on our teachers.

Total income has gone down, living costs have gone up, for example housing costs have increased from 15 percent

to over 50 percent in some cases. Rent that used to be $370 is now $1,500 or even $1,600. It is hard to maintain good staff when their salaries are not going up but their living costs are. Local staff has been the hardest hit. Some of the local staff told me, it is better to go on welfare than teach for a living. Mr. Speaker, education is important to the success of our youth. We need qualified, motivated and well paid teachers to instruct our youth. There must be enough teaching staff and enough money to pay them what they are worth.

If the government does not pay them well, then they will be forced to go elsewhere. Mr. Speaker, I say again, the teaching staff in Pangnirtung are underpaid and overworked. This situation is not acceptable. Our children's education must not be compromised, they are our future. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 67-13(5): Morale Of Pangnirtung Teachers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq . Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien .

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Member's Statement 68-13(3): Congratulations To Nursing Graduate Laureen Angalik

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to recognize and congratulate Ms. Laureen Angalik of Arviat. Laureen will be the first Inuk from Arviat to graduate as a registered nurse this week. Mr. Speaker, also to be congratulated are her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Aero Pameolik for all their encouragement and support. We are all very proud of her. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 68-13(3): Congratulations To Nursing Graduate Laureen Angalik

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien . Members' statements. Mr. Ningark .

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Member's Statement 69-13(5): Fundraising Efforts Of Taloyoak Adult Training Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, in November of 1997, I had the honour of attending the Adult Community Training Program in Taloyoak. At that location we talked about the government structure, and I found the students to be very enthusiastic and very willing for preparing for Nunavut come 1999. At that time, I was approached by the teacher and by the students of their interests in attending the Legislative Assembly. I have a letter here from that group dated November 26, 1997. Sometimes I am a little slow to respond to things. This was misplaced in my office, I apologize to the group.

Their goal is to observe the Legislature in session and secondly to work in a legislative office as an extension of our practice. The method they wish to do this thing and to accomplish our goal, we are planning a trip to Yellowknife, March/April, 1998. We are involved in fund-raising to help cover the costs. We are approaching our council, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, First Air and other organizations that provide services within our community for financial aid.

We know there are times, even though we approach many organizations, bodies and such and stuff like that, there are times we are not able to get all the help that we may require. By that, I would like to solicit Members and the government and other business groups in the business community to help out as much as possible in making this trip a dream, a realization for the people/students of Taloyoak. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 69-13(5): Fundraising Efforts Of Taloyoak Adult Training Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark . Members' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Member's Statement 70-13(5): Passing Of Fred Henne

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday a former Yellowknife resident and Mayor, Fred Henne passed away. Fred Henne first came to Yellowknife in 1947. He arrived in the city as a mine union organizer. Later, he bought Frame and Perkins - a local bussing company which is now known as Arctic Frontier Carriers - and, with his partner Mike Piro, expanded operations to include a Ford dealership, an Imperial Oil dealership, a car wash and a number of other enterprises. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Henne was an active entrepreneur, but he was also very involved in municipal politics.

He served as mayor of the City of Yellowknife several times, from 1956 to 1957, again from 1968 to 1973, and finally from 1976 to 1979. Fred hired me to work for the city in 1976, so I got to know him pretty well over the three years that I worked for him.

Mr. Speaker, Fred was a colourful character - like many successful people in a booming frontier town - and you either loved him or you hated him. Fred had a vision of where the city should be headed. He was quick to look at an issue or a situation, choose a position and then work his heart out to achieve what he thought to be the best solution. He was blunt and straightforward and very effective in arguing a case whether it was with a contractor, planner or someone from the territorial Department of Local Government.

Fred used to talk about the early days of municipal government in the north and how tough they had to be with Ottawa early on. He was particularly proud of the role he played in the early days of the first elected government north of 60 - since the Town of Yellowknife had an elected mayor and council way before the territorial government was elected. He also contributed to the development of our city through his dedication and commitment to the community. He was an active volunteer and a charter member of the Yellowknife Rotary Club.

Fred was particularly supportive of sports in Yellowknife and fought hard for new facilities. It is appropriate that the Fred Henne Territorial Park, located within the City of Yellowknife, is named after him in honour of his contributions and service to the city.

Mr. Speaker, after Fred retired to Peachland, British Columbia, he continued to come back to Yellowknife for several years to run charters with his beloved boat the Nauti-Gal. Because of the small population of the territories and the role he played in the capital city, Fred was well known to many northerners. Mr. Speaker, I am sure they join me in extending deepest sympathy to his wife Helen and his family. Thank you.

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Member's Statement 70-13(5): Passing Of Fred Henne

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 280

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Member's Statement 71-13(5): Pelican Rapids Inn Reopening

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year in Fort Smith, the local hotel, the Pelican Rapids Inn was destroyed by fire and since that time it put a very serious damper on the town's capability to host conferences and meetings. I am glad to be able to stand up today and announce that, in fact, the Pelican Rapids Inn, under the ownership of Don Ferguson has been rebuilt and is now open for business. It has many new well appointed rooms, air conditioned, all the amenities that discriminating travellers are used to.

I would like to encourage all my colleagues and Cabinet to make sure that they let their departments know that Fort Smith is back in business in the hotel sector, and we look forward to many more conferences and government people coming to town, along with any other folks to take advantage of the fine services we have to offer. I would like to congratulate Mr. Ferguson for his involvement and commitment to the Town of Fort Smith. Thank you very much.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 71-13(5): Pelican Rapids Inn Reopening

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Member's Statement 72-13(5): Assistance To Ice Storm Victims

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The ice storm in southern Canada, particularly Quebec and Ontario, has been the focus of many news stories over the past few weeks. The power outages have caused some disruption with flights and freight schedules in the Baffin region because most of our goods and services as well as transportation routes south connecting either Montreal or Ottawa. Mr. Speaker, many of us here in the north can sympathize with our neighbours in the south who are dealing with the continuing serious problem. It has taken lives, caused millions of dollars of damage and lost businesses as thousands of people are still without power.

Mr. Speaker, the upside to this story is how Canadians from British Columbia to Newfoundland to the NWT have chipped in with donations of blankets, money, food, wood, et cetera. Staff at the Iqaluit NTPC office took the initiative to offer a spare portable industrial generator to the Red Cross emergency workers last week. With the offer of free freight from First Air, the machine was sent down to the Montreal area last weekend and was hooked up for usage at an emergency shelter in Ville de Marieville. It is supplying between 400 and 500 people with heat and light in an area that has not yet had power restored. The unit will be returned when it is no longer required.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask Members of this House to join me in thanking our Iqaluit NTPC employees as well as all northern businesses and individuals who have chipped in to help our fellow Canadians dealing with the effects of that winter storm. A special thanks to First Air who facilitated the delivery of the generator free of charge. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 72-13(5): Assistance To Ice Storm Victims

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Member's Statement 73-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members will recall that on the opening day of this session I made a Member's statement on the absolute need for the MLAs of this Legislature to conduct themselves in accordance with the highest standards of integrity. Mr. Speaker, I have sat in this House and listened to the various Ministers talk about the need for transparency in all government dealings and I strongly agree with this need of transparency at all levels. However, Mr. Speaker, this transparency must also be apparent to the people of the Northwest Territories.

I have listened over the Christmas break to concerns from my constituents about the issue of government officials allegedly being investigated by the RCMP Commercial Crime Division and the circumstances surrounding the sale and leasing of the Lahm Ridge Tower by this government. Mr. Speaker, the RCMP have to complete their investigation into the alleged transgressions before I would comment on that. I do, however, Mr. Speaker, have serious concerns about the perception of transparency with regard to the Lahm Ridge Tower deal.

Given the well-known public perception problem and difficulties with this particular transaction; it alludes me why this government has not taken the initiative on their own to clarify the issues surrounding this deal without having to be asked to do so. The circumstances leading up to the sale and lease renewal present a picture to the average person who could hardly be blamed for making the assumption of collusion at the highest levels of this government.

Mr. Speaker, this is my understanding of the facts. We start with the previous owner who is attempting to secure refinancing for his property and is encountering difficulty because he only has month to month leases. The owner is approached by a local real estate agent saying they have an interested buyer for the Lahm Ridge Tower. The owner for whatever reasons decides to sell his building for almost $2 million less than the appraised value to a numbered company controlled by a former senior bureaucrat of this government and a local businessman with known ties to our Premier .

The government signs leases for a total gross revenue of $1.2 million per year. The sale goes through and the new owners have a lease extension for eight years with a total revenue from that lease extension of almost $9.5 million. At the very least, Mr. Speaker, the circumstances are one of more incredible string of coincidences than I have ever seen, but if there is more to the story or a perfectly reasonable explanation why this government has not publicly come forward with it to clear suspicion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to know what it is and, Mr.

Speaker, I intend to seek specific answers to these questions regarding the Lahm Ridge Tower in question period. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 73-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 281

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Member's Statement 74-13(5): Financial Support For Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as leaders we always speak to the people we represent on the value and importance of education, achieving a higher degree of education in regard to post secondary education and university degrees. However, Mr. Speaker, this vehicle that we have in place in regard to education system of supporting our students seems to always find itself running into road blocks in regard to the organization and the process that students find themselves in when trying to achieve those goals.

I would like to elaborate on some of these road blocks from one of my constituents who is attending the Teacher Access Program at Aurora College here in Yellowknife. She has barely made it through the Christmas season to start. When she first applied to the Nurses Program her forms and money orders were lost or misplaced. Then she had to find her own accommodation as the college was unable to provide one. After paying for her damage deposit, bills and buying furniture; most of her savings have been used up. Mr.

Speaker, in January after arriving back in Yellowknife to continue her education, she was told that the financial assistance for January would be postponed because the position of the Department of Education was they did not know which students would return in the New Year so there was a hold back. She was also told by the Department of Education to go to the food bank or apply for a funding loan.

Mr. Speaker, this is unacceptable in regard to the credibility and the high priority we put on education. I think it is critical when students do arrive for school from the outlying communities... Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 74-13(5): Financial Support For Students

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for the Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? We do have one nay. I am sorry, Mr. Krutko , you do not have unanimous consent. Members' statements. Mr. Roland .

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Member's Statement 75-13(5): Stickhandling In The Political Arena

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to send greetings back to my wife and children.

--Applause

Mr. Speaker, being Friday, I would like to do something a little different and speak of an issue that I am fairly familiar with. Mr. Speaker, I think many people in the north are familiar with the game of hockey. I have played this for quite a few years now. At times I am accused by certain Members that I give the game away, but the issue in a game of hockey, there are certain things that you learn to do or you try to do better than others. I have seen many games and I have seen many players. I have seen some who can mesmerize us on the ice. One of the things of this game is stick handling.

The better you can control that puck on the end of your stick, the more you are able to go through the opponents team and possibly score a winning goal. If it so happens that members of the other team have a better player than you and they can take control of that puck, you are sometimes left standing and wondering where were you when he scored the goal.

I will refer to a specific game sometime maybe another Friday in the future, but I wanted to make reference to stick handling. Some of the best stick handling I have seen recently comes in a different arena than I was accustomed to. The arena I refer to is this Legislative Assembly. The stick handling I have seen done has been superior. I must say Mr. Todd would win a number of awards for his ability to manoeuvre and get by the defence of others. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 75-13(5): Stickhandling In The Political Arena

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 76-13(5): Private/public Partnerships

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 282

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak today on Public/Private Partnerships. This is a great idea and I think it is worthwhile for us all to consider. There are many examples regionally, nationally and internationally of such projects, City of Toronto, British Columbia, United Kingdom, Australia, California, Toronto. I just mentioned Toronto twice there. In order for us to undertake this expenditure a lot of homework must be done by all of us. We need time to ensure that we study the policies, the legislative and regulatory issues in detail.

We must also ensure that projects must irrevocably benefit the public at large. We must review in detail the decision making process to ensure maximum competition with the lowest cost possible to this government. Rather than relying on just the Coles report which is just one of such many documents available, we should have a task force to investigate the P3s.

--Laughter

In BC just such a task force was formed and released in October, 1986. Included on the task force were members of industry, union, government and academia. The task force was established to assess the feasibility and applicability, select a few projects that could be used on a pilot basis, offer strategic advice on critical factors that create barriers, review national and international experiences with P3s, commission a study on the risk analysis, review public sector versus private sector financing. All northerners would benefit if we had such a task force.

Some of the recommendations of the BC task force were the establishment of a public/private partnership advisory board, pilot projects, comprehensive framework to guide implementation, guidelines to use in planning and budgeting capital projects, development of detailed project action plans and procurement guidelines, a review and assessment of legislation such as the Municipal Act. The above would be a worthwhile endeavour for us to consider. There are many strengths and there are limitations and risks attached to these P3s. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 76-13(5): Private/public Partnerships

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus .

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Member's Statement 77-13(5): Passing Of Erasmus Family Patriarchs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The past month has been a difficult one for my family with the passing of a couple of patriarchs in our family. First of all was my wife's uncle, Albert Lafferty. The Member for Good Hope mentioned some very kind words yesterday. The other was my uncle, Peter Erasmus, who also passed away late December at the age of 89. Peter was a very independent person. He was still working in his late 70s actually until he had a stroke which severely restricted his movement afterwards.

Peter was born in Wrigley to a family of 12 and grew up in Fort Rae. He did a lot of things in his life, commercial fishing, hunting, trapping, drilling. He looked after mines in his later years as a caretaker, but I know my Dad often tells me of the time when he and his brother Peter went to Norman Wells during the second world war and the Canol pipeline was being built to Whitehorse.

Peter was delivering mail for the army there and he was going down the road with his dog team and apparently this army truck went by and they did not see him, ran right over him and he was very, very severely injured, but he survived and did a lot of things afterwards. One of the things that we always remembered about him was that he would never get mad at people and he always had kind words about everybody. He seemed to always to try to find the good things in any situation. He is remembered and loved and missed by his family. Thank you.

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Member's Statement 77-13(5): Passing Of Erasmus Family Patriarchs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus . Members' statements. Mr. Steen .

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Member's Statement 78-13(5): Comments Of Mr. Miltenberger

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in reviewing the Hansard, I cannot help noticing the remarks made by the Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger , about what we were feeding the bankers. I too am a bit embarrassed to note that we are concerned about the shrimp and smoked char that they were being offered. I tend to agree with the government, Mr. Speaker, in particular Mr. Todd that shrimp and smoked char are a small investment if in fact we do benefit from these people opening their purses. From my perspective and I am sure from my constituency's perspective, shrimp and smoked char are not the preferred food. It is just something you offer visitors, but it is not the best food.

--Laughter

So I, along with Mr. Todd , do feel that the comments were quite out of order. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 78-13(5): Comments Of Mr. Miltenberger

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

That is not a point of privilege is it? Thank you, Mr. Steen . Members' statements. Point of privilege, Mr. Ng .

Point of Privilege

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Member's Statement 78-13(5): Comments Of Mr. Miltenberger

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 283

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a point of privilege under Rule 20(1) to clarify a misunderstanding that has been created by a recent CBC Radio news report.

Mr. Speaker, upon hearing of this report, I was immediately concerned because I had not conducted any recent interviews with the CBC, nor had I made any direct statements relating to any new programs or initiatives that may have been included in the 1998-99 budget. As well, the budget contains no such funds and we are not planning any kind of campaign.

Upon investigation into the matter, I was informed the basis for this story was an interview I conducted with the CBC's Dave Miller in the first week of November, 1997 - almost three months ago. The focus of the interview was the unique demographics of the Northwest Territories - including population growth and the demand that these demographics place on the resources of the Department of Health and Social Services.

In that interview, in responding to a question on how the GNWT might be able to assist regional health boards who might want to tackle the issue head on with a communication campaign, I responded by referring to the strategic investment fund Cabinet had approved and the department was planning to establish, targeted at positioning health boards to develop health promotion initiatives and programs.

The story on January 16th used these comments and placed them in an improper context. This causes me great concern. I was not in Yellowknife on January 16th, nor was I contacted by the reporter to update or comment on this issue. Mr. Speaker, in my opinion the reporter's actions on this story were irresponsible and consequences of his actions have been far reaching and harmful. I have personally suffered from being misrepresented on the eve of the Finance Minister 's Budget Address.

The Department of Health and Social Services was caught completely off guard, and officials placed in a position of defending a program that does not exist. Members of this House have been misled about the plans and activities of our government, and the public has been left with the perception we have some solution to the rapid population growth.

As I recall, the original story on which the interview was based was well done. However, the subsequent actions of the reporter have overshadowed that initial work. This is not a wound that will easily heal, but hopefully with this point of privilege, we have set the record straight. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 78-13(5): Comments Of Mr. Miltenberger

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 284

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to welcome to the House a visitor, Mr. Derrek Konrad, the Member of Parliament for Prince Albert. He is also the Reform critic for Aboriginal Affairs and sits as vice-chair for the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs. Another point of note is that his riding is also the former riding of Mr. Diefenbaker.

--Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the questions I have to ask today I ask because I believe that the people of the Northwest Territories have a right to know. Decisions that are made in private, sometimes have to be defended in public and explained in public, thus my questions. To the Minister of Public Works and Services , can the Minister please tell me who made the decision to lease the Lahm Ridge Tower on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories?

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Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Antoine . The Deputy Premier.

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Return To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is an issue that was asked about in the Standing Committee on Infrastructure meeting back in November/December. I am aware the Member asked me a question as a Member of that committee. I am not sure if she was present, but I do know that the deputy minister of Public Works and Services went through the detail of the business transaction. As I understood it, the committee was satisfied that everything was above board. What I can do is get the transcripts and information that we passed on at that meeting and provide it to the Member.

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Return To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Deputy Premier indicates that I asked questions, but he was not sure if I was there so I am not sure what he is referring to myself. If the committee was satisfied with the response they got, I would have to ask my colleagues on the committee to respond to that, because that was not my understanding. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories loves the use of request for proposals; could the Minister tell me why or if there was a request for proposals issued regarding this need for a substantial quantity of office space in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is the type of detailed information that the Department of Public Works and Services would have, but if my memory serves me correctly, the issue had to do with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the Department of Transportation, whose offices reside in that building, looking at its long-term needs and an extension of a lease as provided for in the contract. Those are the type of details that I can recall, but as I said I will ask the Minister of Public Works to collate that information and pass it on to the Member.

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Further Return To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is my final question then, just to confirm then, that the Minister will provide a concise chronology of the events surrounding the Lahm Ridge Tower lease and table this chronology in the House for the Members. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Further Return To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We can certainly do that. As I confirmed earlier, the chronology and the information have already been put together, it has already been provided to a standing committee of the House late last year and we will certainly put it together and provide it to the House.

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Further Return To Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Question 81-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 284

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance . Earlier today I made a

statement regarding the trip of the young people who wanted to come to Yellowknife and experience first hand how the government operates at this level, in this House and in the offices within the building. I think we have talked about the future of young people. We want to ensure that once we are divided we will have manpower at respective regions. I think the willingness and enthusiasm of the young people of Taloyoak and the Taloyoak Community Training Program indicates they are willing to work at their community for the benefit of that region.

My question to the honourable Minister, will the Minister endeavour to provide some funding for this initiative for the people of Taloyoak? Thank you.

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Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think it would be appropriate if the Department of Finance would provide funding. It does not have actually funding for this kind of venture that my colleague says the people of Taloyoak are wanting to undertake. I will, however, as an influential MLA, assist him in anyway I can with respect to discussions with the airlines and hotels in an effort to reduce the costs of subsidization, et cetera for that group. We are not in a position to fund those kinds of things at this time. Thank you.

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Return To Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark .

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was under the impression yesterday, when the honourable Member, our Minister made an eloquent statement during the budget address, I thought the honourable Minister was in a position to help all he can with the help of his colleagues to help the young people who are enthusiastic about the government to be, who wanted to go ahead, who are willing to do anything to learn something new. Will the honourable Minister, perhaps talk, in his capacity, to a department that deals with this kind of initiative and let me know what is available within the government? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you for those kind comments, my honourable colleague. I will talk to the Minister of Youth , Mr. Dent later on today and see if there is anyway at all possible that we can assist this group. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Question 82-13(5): Funding Efforts Of Taloyoak Students

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Evaloarjuk .

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Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Mark Evaloarjuk

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister responsible for Transportation . First of all, if I can give you some information, I think last month on December 12th, the Canadian Transport Minister from the federal government was supposed to come to Yellowknife. He was supposedly going to meet with the manager of First Air. I wanted to be represented by my committee and I was not able to come here on December 12th for that committee meeting and I could not attend the transportation committee.

We have had a lot of problems with the transportation system around Hall Beach and Igloolik. I wanted that message relayed to the Minister. I just wondered whether the Minister of this government attended this meeting and what happened at that meeting about what I wanted to say? Thank you. (Translation ends)

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Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine .

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Return To Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the honourable Member is talking about December when we had a meeting with the NAV Canada president, Mr. Crichton, here in Yellowknife. I believe that is what he is making reference to. The meeting was between myself and Mr. Crichton along with the MLA's that were able to attend. The purpose of the meeting was to talk about the NAV Canada fees that NAV Canada has imposed on us. Perhaps I would like to reply to the honourable Member in this matter. Thank you

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Return To Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Do you have a supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk ? Supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk .

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Mark Evaloarjuk

Amittuq

(Translation) Perhaps maybe the honourable Member did not understand me properly. I realize there is not really much of a response that I can get from the Minister, but I am going to be asking about this question because we have had some problems with the transportation systems through First Air. Mainly about the scheduling of First Air. I wanted to be represented at committee level by relaying to my colleagues that we have problems with scheduling by the airlines. I wonder why it was not discussed. Thank you. (Translation ends)

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Supplementary To Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine , I did not hear a question. Would you like to respond to the comment?

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Further Return To Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 285

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the honourable Member could clarify his point, I understand that in the past he has had concerns about his constituents in Hall Beach and Igloolik and the air transportation route in that area is not suitable for him and his constituents. This is what I

recall from meetings and presentations that he has made to me in the House here as well as in the committee hearings. That responsibility lies with the air carriers themselves. First Air is the carrier in Igloolik and Hall Beach. If there are going to be changes to the way the airline schedules this in his constituency, then it is really up to First Air to make those changes. The department had contacted First Air, and we are told that if there is going to be an increase in transportation for passengers in that constituency then they will look at changing the air routes.

I guess that is what we can do as a Department of Transportation is contact First Air and pass on the request and I think that is what we have done. If the honourable Member is asking us to continue pursuing that, then we will continue to do that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Question 83-13(5): First Air Routes In The Eastern Arctic

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq .

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Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned earlier this morning about shortage of teaching staff in Pangnirtung. My question is to the Honourable Minister of Education , Charles Dent . What action will the Minister take to ensure the community of Pangnirtung will have enough teachers and funding for the upcoming school years? Thank you.

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Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have spoken many times in this House about the pupil/teacher ratio in the Northwest Territories. This year the average pupil/teacher ratio across the territories is 18.2 to 1. The budget that the Finance Minister tabled yesterday does not envision any change in that ratio for the next fiscal year. The ratio should stay the same. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Enuaraq .

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Supplementary To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Department of Education consider an increase in funding for school programs in Pangnirtung? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I have mentioned, the budget which has been tabled would not show a further decrease in the pupil/teacher ratio, but Mr. Speaker, there are no additional dollars in that budget to allow for improving the student/teacher ratio. The answer to the Member's question is the money is not in the budget to allow for that ratio to be improved. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Enuaraq .

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Supplementary To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Tommy Enuaraq

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the honourable Minister. Will the Department of Education consider the Income Assistance Program or an increase in pay for teachers to help them cope with the higher living costs common in most remote communities? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I find it difficult to think of a situation where a teacher might qualify for income support. My understanding of the limits of income support qualification makes it virtually impossible. Anyone in the Northwest Territories is able to apply for income support. It is a simple process where if a person's income does not exceed a set amount given their situation, they will qualify for income support no matter what their job is.

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Further Return To Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Question 84-13(5): Pangnirtung Teacher Shortage

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent . In regard to my opening statement I made reference to a constituent of mine who is presently taking the nursing program in Yellowknife through Arctic College. She seems to be having a problem with funding, and also the treatment she feels she is being dealt with is inadequate. Can the Minister tell me what action he will take to improve the delivery of post secondary education for students?

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Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 286

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department has advised me that the Member's constituent has now received all of the cheques that she should have received. I am meeting with the Member's constituent at 3:00 this afternoon to discuss her situation and see if we can come to some resolution. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regard to my supplementary is the question about being told to go to the food bank by the Department of Education. I would like to know why should a student have to access the food bank program when they are sponsored by the Department of Education?

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

I would like to ask the Member if he can rephrase his question because the Minister would not know unless he knows the circumstances. Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the Minister is for students who are presently being sponsored by this government, do you think it is appropriate that they basically have to access the food bank to be able to carry out their education, especially here in Yellowknife.

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a small point, but I think I should make it. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment does not sponsor students. Students can apply for student financial assistance which is part of our Income Support Programs. The Student Financial Assistance Program is intended to be just part of a total package where the student, the family, the community are all expected to contribute towards the cost of a student being able to support themself.

In regard to the Member's question about the food bank, the policy is not to refer students to the food bank, but in a situation where somebody goes to a worker and says I have an emergency, I do not have any food right now and I cannot get any assistance and I need it today, suggestions may be made such as the Salvation Army, the food bank, the women's centre in order to make sure that kids are not going to go hungry that night. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final supplementary is in regard to students who are taking post secondary education programs in Yellowknife through Arctic College, that is, once an individual from the Department of Education tells a student to go to the food bank in regard to in this case, is that acceptable to this government? I mean we have other clients out there who are homeless and who are living off the streets in which the food banks are there to contribute to those people.

Students who are presently being funded through student financial assistance, but not through the Department of Education, are told by an employee of this government especially in the Department of Education to go to the food bank. Is that acceptable to this government?

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Supplementary To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have stated, I do not think that it is a situation where the government refers people to food banks. If an individual comes to a government employee and says I have an emergency. I have no food for my kids, how do I deal with it? Here are some of the options that may be presented to that person. The employee will then call upon their knowledge of the local resources and advise some options to consider in order to make sure the kids do not go hungry while we try to solve the problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Question 85-13(5): Improvements To Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance in relation to his budget address yesterday, specifically on page 9 on the Public/Private Partnerships and the figures he makes reference to, specifically once again up to $200 million, that may be in fact leverage because of the new public/private partnership initiative. A figure that has been mentioned would be $24 million annually to be able to pay the lease cost or interest cost related to that type of new initiative. The concern, Mr. Speaker, is where will that money come from?

Can we get assurances that in fact it will not come out of the O and M budget and programs and can the Minister indicate how he intends to deal with that? Thank you.

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Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance . Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is only one issue of a larger issue when it comes to P3s. Mr. Ootes referred to it earlier today and Mr. Picco referred to it yesterday. On this question, it would be our intention that if you have an uptake of x amount of dollars in terms of the public/private partnership and the requirement is $10 million to fund the cost of those Public/Private Partnerships that would come out of the capital dollars that we have assigned to the government for $140 million. There will be no impact on the programs and services that we currently provide. Thank you.

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Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 287

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just so that I can make sure that I have this clear in my mind. You make reference to the fact, for instance, that we have a $140 million capital budget. You are saying that you will take, for example, $24 million out of that $140 million and use it to in effect leverage the $200 million. Is that what you are telling us? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

John Todd

Keewatin Central

That is correct. It is more broad than that. We are hoping that in the exercises that are under way right now with respect to the identification of projects that we think that can be done by P3s, you know one of the criteria is urgent need but the other one is, is there going to be some cost savings to government? Is there going to be an economic spin-off? We have to quantify those as well. From a fiscal perspective, a money perspective, we will take the monies that are required out of the capital budget to leverage, you say, the $200 million.

I am also saying that in our evaluation we are going to look at things like is this an economic initiative, is it going to create jobs, are there some cost savings, et cetera on these projects and build that all into the equation. I think this gives me an opportunity to reassure my colleagues because I know that there are some legitimate concerns about where we are going with this project. I think it is all legitimate.

I will provide to the House as much clarity as I can on the policies and regulations that are going to guide this policy, as soon as we get most of them finalized. As I said yesterday, we intend to learn from the experiences in other jurisdictions, whether it is in BC or whether it is in New Brunswick. There is an inordinate amount of knowledge out there and there have been some pitfalls in other provincial jurisdictions. Mr. Coles, while he is one expert, Mr. Ootes is right, there are a whole bunch of others. I have chosen to use Mr.

Coles and I believe he has the overall level of experience to be able to incorporate into our policies and procedures the necessary safeguard that all of us, myself included, need whether it is on the fiscal side, the political side or on the transparency side. If you just give me a little time, I am fairly confident I can reassure you and provide you with all the information you require that will satisfy you that these P3s meet the political and infrastructure and fiscal needs of this government. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for that assurance. Would the Minister also include in the policy and procedures he is talking about, would it be considered to include, an amortization formula or

schedule that would allow us to, in fact, ensure that this is a sustainable initiative and that we do not, in fact, spend $200 million right up front and then find out we cannot afford to finance any new projects for, say, five or ten years. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I mean that is a concern that I have actually raised from the very beginning when the proposal, you know, you still have to have some checks and balances. That certainly would be our intent that once the projects are identified, once the scope of how we are going to do it is undertaken. I think there could be a variety of ways in which we can do the P3s. I do not think there is just one sort of way of doing it. We need to, no question.

We need to amortize, if you want, the costs of the project, the net cost to the government, and show to myself as the Finance Minister and to my colleagues in Cabinet that this policy has a declining balance, if you want as we move forward -- as I said -- when we get to the fine detail of how we are going to ensure it is affordable and transparent. I mean, I said these words yesterday, deliberately, because I wanted to reassure everybody that it is going to happen. I will be prepared to share them with the Members, the committees and the House. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister indicated, this is in fact, a fairly complex broad issue and it speaks to the fact that the moves we are making with this Public/Private Partnerships and things like, changing how we are recording our assets and starting to value them. The whole capital planning process, as we now know it, is going to undergo some structural change and will the Minister be, in fact, looking not only at the P3 but that process in a broader context as well? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 288

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Well, clearly, we need to ensure that the House and the Members through committees, or however we structure it, are directly involved in the process. I mean, otherwise, we will get what we normally get, and that is the accusations as we frequently see from others out there of political favouritism, pork bellying - a favourite word by some I understand - et cetera. So, I mean, I want to be clear, and I have said it before, this is not a panacea for our economic woes. This is not going to solve all our infrastructure problems.

This is just one small way of trying to regroup and find a way to get back up to where we were historically in our spending, so we can maintain the kind of levels of infrastructure that the constituency at large expects of us. What will drive this whole policy, certainly while I am here as the Finance Minister , will be affordability and transparency to ensure that everybody understands what is happening, why it is happening. Projects, I hope, will be selected on need, and as I said, return on investment.

Those discussions are underway right now; and again, once we have some clarity on all the questions that have been asked, not only by this House, by others, advocacy groups I met with, we will provide it to the House and we will hopefully give you the comfort you need to answer some of the essential questions that are currently being asked. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Question 86-13(5): Lease Costs Of The Public/private Partnerships Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Steen .

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Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I questioned the Minister of Health , Mr. Ng , on checks and balances that would be put in place for the health boards as a way of checking on the performance of these boards, whether or not there was a policy in place, whereby the Minister would step in if things were getting out of hand. I would like today to address my question to the Minister of the Financial Management Board concerning departmental responsibility overall of the departments in regard to performance of these departments. My question to the Minister of Financial Management Board is, Mr.

Speaker, in relation to the amount of money that is involved which has been turned over to these boards, in particular, let us deal strictly with the health board at this particular time. We are talking $172.5 million over 97-98. I would like to know what the Minister of the Financial Management Board , what sort of checks and balances the Financial Management Board has to ensure that these boards are performing their overall duties and staying within budget?

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Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board .

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Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will refer that question to the Minister of Health .

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Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Ng .

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Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in respect to the financial controls that the department deals with our funding agreements with the regional health and social services board; they report to us on a quarterly basis on their financial activity so that we can continue to monitor them.

What I would also like to say, as I have indicated last fall, is in respect to some of their program operations, not the financial aspect, the department has structured a monitoring and evaluation unit as a result of some of the issues that were brought up last fall in some of the program changes that some of the boards were contemplating. We had set up that evaluation unit to make sure that we would not potentially get into the situations of boards running programs that might be contrary to what we thought were in the best interests of their constituents. Thank you.

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Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that response, but that is not what I was looking for. What I am talking about here, Mr. Speaker, is the overall performance of the departments, through the Financial Management Board's point of view. I believe that the Financial Management Board is the overall watchdog, if you may, of all the government departments. That is my understanding of the responsibilities of the Financial Management Board.

Now, they seem to have responsibility for not just the financial management of these boards, but the overall performance of the departments, rather than just the boards. So, therefore, my question is, did the Financial Management Board get involved at all with the Department of Health in regard to the particular situation that was developing in the Keewatin region. That was the question I had.

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance . Could you repeat your question, Mr. Steen ?

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Financial Management Board Minister , Mr. Todd , regarding whether his department got involved at all in the performance of the Department of Health in the Keewatin?

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of the Financial Management Board . Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

John Todd

Keewatin Central

My department, the Department of Finance, would not get involved in the program delivery. We get involved in the fiscal accountability of how government monies are spent and we work closely with all departments to do that. Our responsibility and role is one of good fiscal management of government dollars, and we play a role in that with my honourable colleagues, Ministers who are responsible for the program. We do not get involved directly in the programs. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 289

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, thank you. Mr. Speaker, if we read the budget of 97-98, you will find in there that it outlines the duties of the Financial Management Board of not only

financial, but human resources and the overall performance of departments. Therefore, that is why my question was directed to the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board . I believe that there must be some watchdog group at the Cabinet level which assures that departments do perform their responsibilities. Therefore, if problems start surfacing in a particular department, in a particular region, at what level is this thing discussed? Is there a policy in place whereby the government moves in to assure that the problem does not expand?

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of the Financial Management Board , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Yes, I apologize to my colleague. I did not quite fully understand the question. I do now. The Financial Management Board, which is made up all of my Cabinet colleagues, myself as the Chair, has the responsibility and makes decisions on how the government spends its money and its policies, et cetera. Cabinet deals with issues like the overall performance of government, a particular department or a particular Minister, et cetera. We have the fiscal responsibility, the Financial Management Board, to protect and spend and authorize, and so on, the fiscal framework of government. Cabinet, chaired by the Premier , has the overall responsibility for programs, policies, et cetera. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Steen .

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now my final supplementary would have to be the original question, did the Financial Management Board get involved at all with the problems surfacing in the Keewatin region in particular those problems surfacing in the Department of Health whereby there were overall problems and concerns with the operation of that particularly board?

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Supplementary To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to get clarity from my honourable colleagues. No, the FMB did not deal with this issue, as I said, that would be a Cabinet issue. Thank you.

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Return To Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Question 87-13(5): Management Board Performance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien .

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Question 88-13(5): Nursing Assistants' Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services . Mr. Speaker, there is a concern in my community with the nursing shortage that a mentorship program that has been proposed that would enable recent graduates to obtain some training prior to pursuing their career is in jeopardy because of this shortage. I would ask the Minister if he would agree to look into this to ensure that this program will continue. Thank you.

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Question 88-13(5): Nursing Assistants' Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Ng .

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Return To Question 88-13(5): Nursing Assistants' Program

Question 88-13(5): Nursing Assistants' Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, most definitely so. As we know, we are trying to cultivate, develop a northern-based workforce particularly in the nurse area. So, yes, I will check into that to make sure there are no problems in there. Thank you.

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Return To Question 88-13(5): Nursing Assistants' Program

Question 88-13(5): Nursing Assistants' Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Roland .

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Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question at this time will be directed to the Minister responsible for Finance . Mr. Speaker, I have, on a number of occasions in the past, made contact with Mr. Todd , the Minister of Finance , regarding concerns raised to me from employees who were considered to be continuous. This impacts those especially who have to take the time off or have to work during the Donny Days. Now, the concern, Mr.

Speaker, is that a continuous employee versus a non-continuous employee is that although the reduction that was given out to all employees equals 6.25 percent, continuous employees are impacted in a different way because the formula for reduction is different, and it affects them in their superannuation and overtime pay. So two people doing the identical job if one was considered as a continuous employee his superannuation and the rate of overtime pay would be less than that of someone who was non-continuous.

I have raised this issue on a number of occasions with Mr. Todd . I would like to know if he has or if there has been work done or if they have recognized this and made the necessary corrections to truly treat employees in a fair and equitable way. I would like to see if he has the ability to stick handle this issue. Thank you.

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Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 290

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I would like to shoot the puck but I cannot this morning. So, what I would say to my honourable colleague is that this is recognized, clearly recognized. We are at the bargaining table as we speak, I think, yesterday. It is on the table, I believe, and I am optimistic that we will come to a satisfactory arrangement with

the UNW to accommodate those workers who Mr. Roland so eloquently and frequently speaks about. Thank you.

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Return To Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd , if he could maybe send a more positive message out to those people who have been impacted negatively by this. It has been two years now that they have endured this inequity. I would like to know if he is prepared to send a message to them that that is indeed being looked at as well. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 291

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I would like to be able to say unequivocally today that we are going to resolve the problem, but I cannot circumvent the current discussions that are underway between the negotiators for ourselves and the UNW. I am sort of hoping that we can come to an agreement on all issues with respect to the collective agreement by the end of March. That we will be able to as much as possible satisfy those workers who Mr. Roland frequently talks about. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 89-13(5): Treatment Of Continuous Employees

Question 89-13(5)