Mental Health Act, Health and Social Services — 9 March 1993 (12th Assembly, 3rd Session, pp. 809–837)
1993-03-09, 12th Assembly 3rd Session, pp. 809–837
Northwest Territories — Debates (Hansard)
Debates of March 9th, 1993
This is page numbers 809 - 837 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.
The word of the day was road .
Topics
Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
New Trapping Technology Demonstration
Recognition Of Clerk
Strategic Plan For Education, Culture And Employment Programs
Decentralization Of Arctic College
Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Return To Oral Question 322-12(3): Status Of Teacher Education Program In Beaufort/delta Region
Return To Oral Question 364-12(3): Update On Contaminants Study
Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Group Home In Gjoa Haven For Mentally Handicapped
Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Committee Report 13-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions Interim Report On The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Appointment Of Alternate Members And Final Report Date For The Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Relocation Of Highway Patrol Personnel
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Bill 12:
An Act To Amend The Mental Health Act
Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Members Present
Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford
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---Prayer
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Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 809
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Allooloo .
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Minister's Statement 52-12(3): New Trapping Technology Demonstration
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 809
Titus Allooloo
Amittuq
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to announce that a demonstration of new trapping technology is available for honourable Members and the public to view in the foyer of the Legislative Assembly.
A number of respected trappers are available to discuss the new systems and answer questions. In the Northwest Territories we are committed to doing all we can to ensure trappers have the tools to continue this life-style. The display will be available today, March 9, and tomorrow March 10. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Minister's Statement 52-12(3): New Trapping Technology Demonstration
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 809
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea .
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Minister's Statement 53-12(3): Recognition Of Clerk
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 809
Nellie Cournoyea
Nunakput
Mr. Speaker, ten years ago today, Mr. David Hamilton was appointed Clerk of the Legislative Assembly.
---Applause
Mr. Speaker, since that time he has served with dedication, skill and efficiency, and a good sense of humour. On behalf of the government, I would like to thank Mr. Hamilton for his many contributions to this Legislature. Thank you.
---Applause
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Minister's Statement 53-12(3): Recognition Of Clerk
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 809
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Madam Premier . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo .
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Minister's Statement 54-12(3): Strategic Plan For Education, Culture And Employment Programs
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 809
Richard Nerysoo
Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs was created on August 4, 1992. The 1992 report, Reshaping Northern Government, outlined plans for the consolidation of culture, schools, advanced education and related programs, in order to provide new opportunities for better delivery of programs and services.
To make the most of these opportunities, and to better integrate operations, the new department has started work on a strategic plan which will shape the direction of the department for the next ten to 15 years.
The plan will improve coherence among all activities of the department, and ensure there are better links between resources and priorities, specifically between programs and employment opportunities. The goals of the plan include improving the quality of programs and services, improving access for the public, enhancing the return on our investment and improving the department's accountability.
Consultation is an integral part of the planning process. Everyone who is involved in the planning and delivery of departmental programs and services, and everyone who is served by them, has a role to play in the strategic planning process. Consultation will include: the boards and agencies who deliver programs and services; advisory boards; students; parents; key interest groups, including aboriginal organizations and community governments; Members of the Legislative Assembly, and their staff; and, the general public. Preliminary public consultation will begin in the next few weeks.
I expect to be able to review a draft plan with the Assembly in the fall of this year, with the final report prepared for March, 1994.
Mr. Speaker, the future holds many challenges, but it also holds many opportunities. Through the strategic plan, I am determined that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs will reshape and develop programs for delivery in communities to enable the people of the Northwest Territories to meet those challenges.
Further, Mr. Speaker, I am committed to directly consulting and involving the Members, boards and your constituents in the development of a vision and plan for education and training, which respects the cultures and languages of the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Applause
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Minister's Statement 54-12(3): Strategic Plan For Education, Culture And Employment Programs
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 809
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo .
Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo .
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Minister's Statement 55-12(3): Decentralization Of Arctic College
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 810
Richard Nerysoo
Mackenzie Delta
Mr. Speaker, decentralizing Arctic College into two separate college systems was one of the directions which followed from the report, Reshaping Northern Government. Today, I would like to bring the Members of the Legislative Assembly up-to-date on the college's decentralization plans.
The college is planning to establish one college system in Nunavut, with a head office located in Iqaluit, and another in the western Arctic, with its head office in Fort Smith. Decentralization should be complete by June, 1994.
The structure of the two new colleges will be streamlined. In Nunavut, the college will serve the Kitikmeot, Keewatin and Baffin regions. In the western Arctic, the college will include the Inuvik, Fort Smith and Yellowknife regions. Each college will be incorporated and directed by a board of governors.
Decentralization will not jeopardize the college's ability to deliver a high level of programming to its students. The board of governors has directed the college president to develop and monitor decentralization and its impact on programs. This plan will include a model for the two college systems, legislative changes, a description of their boards and their relationship to government, and the possibility of future agreements between the two institutions. Although there will be two separate colleges with their own programs, I will ensure links be established between them to help them run their programs efficiently.
The college's decentralization plan will be aligned with the strategic plan for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs. The department's reorganization will also recognize the need to provide support for college-related programs.
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Minister's Statement 55-12(3): Decentralization Of Arctic College
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 810
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk .
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Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 810
Ludy Pudluk
High Arctic
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the dean of this House...
---Applause
Mr. Speaker and honourable colleagues, it gives me great pleasure to rise today to extend on behalf of all Members our thanks and congratulations to Mr. David Hamilton on his tenth anniversary...
---Applause
...as the Clerk of the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly.
On March 9, 1983, our former colleagues in this House voted on a motion to appoint Mr. Hamilton as the Clerk of this Legislative Assembly. The motion was carried unanimously. If a similar vote was held today, I am sure the result would be the same.
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Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 810
An Hon. Member
Hear, hear.
---Applause
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Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 810
Ludy Pudluk
High Arctic
Mr. Speaker, as we all know, our consensus form of government presents many unique and varied challenges, and Mr. Hamilton's dedication, work ethic, common sense approach and sense of humour have helped to guide us through the good times and the bad. For this, I am sure we are all very thankful.
In addition to his duties as Clerk of the House, Mr. Hamilton has also served on the following organizations in an exemplary fashion: Elections Canada, as the chief electoral officer for the NWT; the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association; and, the Canadian Association of Clerks-at-the-Table.
Mr. Hamilton, I hope your next ten years are just as productive. Not bad for a wee lad from bonny Scotland. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
---Laughter
---Applause
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Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 810
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Pudluk . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson .
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Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 810
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, I certainly do not have the same tenure as my honourable colleague on my right, but I have had the pleasure of being in this Assembly since Mr. Hamilton's appointment and I too want to rise to pay tribute to him on this important anniversary.
He has a very difficult job, Mr. Speaker, especially in a consensus government where sometimes the Clerk performs miracles to keep the system working. David Hamilton, as we all know, for those of us who have worked in this House, is a fixer. He can tell you how to do something, never why you cannot do it. He is a superb organizer. Anyone who has been involved in elections in the Northwest Territories, and plebiscites, knows what vagaries of human foibles can cause the works to be off-track.
The fact that David has managed to steer us through a number of votes, plebiscites and elections which have occurred in this vast territory over that period of time, while carrying on his job as the Clerk, is a tribute to his organizational abilities and his human skills.
I want to say, as a Member, that we do have our ups and downs, our difficulties, and David treats us all with respect and affection. He lets us talk to him and unwind, and sometimes complain. I want to express my gratitude to him for that and for his ever present humour. This is essential to survival in politics and in this Assembly.
I would like to join my colleagues and our Government Leader in thanking David for his time and wishing him an equally long tenure over the next decade. Qujannamiik.
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Mr. Hamilton's Tenth Anniversary As Clerk
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 811
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Patterson . Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .
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Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 811
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very concerned about the current state of the business community in Fort Simpson, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of businesses in distress. The unemployment rate is approximately 36 per cent and it will be higher if these business fail. Unfortunately, the problem is larger than just failed businesses. It affects the morale and the self-confidence of the entire community. It tends to destroy relationships among community members.
I believe a large part of the problem stems from the policy and practices of the Department of Economic Development and Tourism. In dealing with business ventures in the communities, once an initial investment has been made, there is inadequate follow through. The goal of the department in this area is to stimulate economic development through investment in business enterprises. Providing investment and capital alone is not enough. The supply of capital funds needs to be accompanied by the provision of business management support services.
In fact, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism identified, in the 1993-94 Main Estimates, the departmental goal to provide more effective business management assistance to new and existing businesses. I will be watching to see if this goal is reached in my communities.
Many entrepreneurs in the communities require support, not only in starting their businesses, but in building them. Often they have highly developed skills in the technical parts of their business, but require assistance in developing business management skills.
The government needs to go beyond investing money, Mr. Speaker. If the Department of Economic Development and Tourism is going to be truly successful in moving communities towards self-sufficiency, it must follow through with its capital investments. The benefits would be many, the communities would be healthier and the return on government investment would be greater. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
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Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 811
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Cournoyea .
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Return To Oral Question 322-12(3): Status Of Teacher Education Program In Beaufort/delta Region
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 811
Nellie Cournoyea
Nunakput
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Fred Koe on the status of the teacher education program in the Beaufort/Delta region.
The GNWT has submitted its 1993-94 proposed budgets on February 10, 1993, under the Canada-NWT cooperation agreement for French and aboriginal languages in the NWT to the Secretary of State of Canada. The community teacher education proposal for the Beaufort/Delta was one of the aboriginal language development projects submitted in the GNWT proposal.
This process may be delayed and funding levels reduced due to the ten per cent cuts proposed by the federal government which were mentioned in my statement of February 24, 1993. All attempts will be made to ensure that funding is secured prior to the end of the current fiscal year. Thank you.
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Return To Oral Question 322-12(3): Status Of Teacher Education Program In Beaufort/delta Region
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 811
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Thank you, Ms. Cournoyea . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo .
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Return To Oral Question 364-12(3): Update On Contaminants Study
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 811
Titus Allooloo
Amittuq
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question, asked by Mr. Pudlat , regarding environmental assessment of the great whale project.
The Department of Renewable Resources has been regularly consulting with community organizations and assisting them in participating in the environmental assessment of the proposed great whale hydroelectric project since it became an issue in 1990.
Throughout 1990 and 1991, the Department of Renewable Resources provided technical advice and helped the Sanikiluaq environmental committee prepare for the public scoping sessions which mark the first stage of the environmental assessment process.
In March, 1992, the territorial government made a presentation at the Sanikiluaq public scoping session. The presentation was developed in close consultation with the Keewatin regional health board and the Sanikiluaq environmental committee.
After the completion of the public scoping sessions a new northern organization was formed, the Nunavut environmental coalition, representing several groups in the Keewatin region. Government officials recently met with the Sanikiluaq environmental committee and Nunavut environmental coalition to begin planning for the next stage of the environmental assessment process.
We will continue to work closely with the two community groups through the remaining stages of the environmental assessment process. Our goal is to ensure the review of the proposed great whale hydroelectric project provides a complete assessment of the potential environmental health and socio-economic impacts to communities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
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Return To Oral Question 364-12(3): Update On Contaminants Study
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
I would like to take this opportunity to recognize, in the gallery, Mr. John Matthews, and with him are 12 students from the management studies class of Nunatta campus, Arctic College.
---Applause
This is their fifth annual visit to our Legislative Assembly. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine .
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Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . The Minister knows I am very concerned about the current state of the business community in Fort Simpson. A number of businesses are in distress and there has been a real slow down in the number of new ventures. We have identified a need in Fort Simpson for provisions of business management support service. After making an initial investment in support of new business ventures, the department has not been following through. There is a gap in service delivery.
The Department of Economic Development and Tourism has identified, in the 1993-94 Main Estimates, a departmental goal to provide more effective business management assistance in new and existing businesses. Will the Minister tell the Members of this Assembly how his department plans to provide more effective business management assistance to businesses? Mahsi.
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Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, it will vary with the problem in any particular area. One of the suggestions is that we bring in someone who is very familiar with banking, loans and amortization of loans, someone who can tell people the kind of equity and the debt ratio they should have. In other areas, we are going to ask our EDOs to go back and visit with businesses that we have assisted or businesses that may be experiencing a problem. Many problems arise because the issue gets too far down the road before it is brought to our attention. We will take some of the blame for that.
We expect some of the businesses to take some of the blame in not coming to us soon enough. That will be another one of the ways we will try to help people. When we have loaned them money, or when we have contributed to their venture, we will periodically call them or perhaps sit down with them and discuss how they are doing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .
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Supplementary To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Government agencies in other jurisdictions have developed programs which provide management service and training to business owners. An example would be the Alberta opportunity company. There is also the federal business development bank which has a program designed to provide business management support to business owners. Has the Department of Economic Development and Tourism studied examples of such programs in other jurisdictions and assessed how they might work in the Northwest Territories? Mahsi.
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Supplementary To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
John Pollard
Hay River
Mr. Speaker, we are well aware of the federal business development bank program because it operates in the Northwest Territories as well. Have we studied it to see whether starting a program such as that would be advantageous to the Northwest Territories? No, we have not, but I am quite prepared to go and talk to the Minister of Education to see if, in fact, it would fit into one of the programs for Arctic College. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .
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Supplementary To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the department have the necessary resources to provide business management assistance to communities where needs have been identified? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
John Pollard
Hay River
Resources usually means money or PYs, Mr. Speaker. Our department is no different than any other department, we do not have enough money and we do not have enough PYs. Where we have to work with businesses more than we have in the past, we will do it out of existing budgets. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .
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Supplementary To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
Jim Antoine
Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister describe the process his department uses for measuring whether they have been successful in promoting self-sufficiency in the communities? Mahsi.
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Supplementary To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 812
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Pollard .
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Further Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
John Pollard
Hay River
No, Mr. Speaker, I cannot. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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Further Return To Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Question 446-12(3): Current Status Of Business Community In Fort Simpson
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .
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Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
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Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Ms. Cournoyea .
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Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
Nellie Cournoyea
Nunakput
Mr. Speaker, much of the discussions regarding the Northwest Territories at the Premiers' level are ongoing discussions. We have, on the agenda, an entire multitude of things that are going on in the Northwest Territories. I realize, in many people's minds, it seems as if there is not anything going on, but there are many initiatives which require some coordination between the federal and territorial governments to realize the goals and objectives of the residents of the Northwest Territories.
One of the outstanding issues which I would like to have the Prime Minister's commitment on is the northern accord. The Prime Minister did sign the initial document. I am hoping we can overcome a couple of difficulties we have with it. As well, I intend to talk about the health billing dispute we have with them in regard to our court action and some of the concerns we have involving health billing and the federal government's responsibility.
I would hope that we would have time to discuss a Nunavut claim to see if he can give some assurance that the integrity of the claim can be realized before the change of government. As well, we have an outstanding issue of our formula funding and how that is arranged with them. We have the ongoing issue of how to encourage economic develop in the Northwest Territories, so we will also be discussing the Izok Lake proposal and the transportation infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. Those are the immediate topics we have for discussion purposes.
We would like to get a commitment to conclude a few of those items before the Prime Minister retires from office. Thank you.
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Return To Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re Nwt Initiatives
Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .
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Supplementary To Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re Nwt Initiatives
Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, I take it from the honourable Government Leader 's response that she has made arrangements to meet with the Prime Minister before he leaves office. Has a firm date been set for a meeting with the Prime Minister? Thank you.
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Supplementary To Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re Nwt Initiatives
Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Ms. Cournoyea .
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Further Return To Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re Nwt Initiatives
Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
Nellie Cournoyea
Nunakput
Mr. Speaker, the meeting with the Prime Minister is set for Thursday, March 11, 1993, at 5:00 pm. Thank you.
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Further Return To Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re Nwt Initiatives
Question 447-12(3): Arrangements To Meet With Prime Minister Re NWT Initiatives
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions.
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Question 448-12(3): Group Home In Gjoa Haven For Mentally Handicapped
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
John Ningark
Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the honourable Minister for Health and Social Services.
On February 26, 1993, I asked the Minister the following question. Would the Minister look into the possibility of getting a group home for the mentally handicapped in Gjoa Haven? She indicated that a group home to be located in Gjoa Have was identified for 1988 and 1989. Subsequent inquiries revealed that there was no demand. Mr. Speaker, I went to Gjoa Haven in February, 1993, with the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea , and met with the hamlet council. The need for a group home for the mentally handicapped was one of the requests made by the hamlet of Gjoa Haven.
I wonder if the Minister would seriously look into the possibility of building a group home in Gjoa Haven for the Kitikmeot region? Thank you.
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Question 448-12(3): Group Home In Gjoa Haven For Mentally Handicapped
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Ms. Mike .
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Return To Question 448-12(3): Group Home In Gjoa Haven For Mentally Handicapped
Question 448-12(3): Group Home In Gjoa Haven For Mentally Handicapped
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
Rebecca Mike
Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This decision was made prior to my appointment to the department. I will look further into what other initiatives the previous Minister of Social Services had made and I will provide the Member with the information he requires. Possibly we could have a meeting on this matter. Thank you.
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Question 448-12(3): Group Home In Gjoa Haven For Mentally Handicapped
Item 5: Oral Questions
Page 813
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Dent .
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 813
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to present the fourth interim report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services.
Mr. Speaker, this is the fourth interim report of the special committee. Since tabling our third report early last December, we have continued our regional consultations and research initiatives. In late January, we met with people in communities and the constituencies of Nahendeh, Deh Cho and Hay River. We also continued work on our front line workers survey and launched two other research projects. One examines the links between housing conditions and health. The other explores the experiences of communities with taking control of health and social services.
During this period, we have had a number of changes in committee membership. Richard Nerysoo and Ludy Pudluk resigned from our ranks, and Ernie Bernhardt is also no longer a committee Member. John Ningark , who had already participated in our Keewatin consultation, and Dennis Patterson have joined the committee.
In early January, Members joined the Standing Committee on Public Accounts as they reviewed the Auditor General's Comprehensive Audit on the Department of Health. This ensured that we were aware of the discussions on the health delivery system issues raised in that document. That same week, we followed up on our commitment to learn from the experiences of our northern neighbours. We spent a very useful day with Ms. Gaye Hanson, the deputy minister of the Yukon Department of Health and Social Services. During our meeting with her, we heard about some of the Yukon's experiences with community transfer, departmental amalgamation and other topics of mutual interest.
Mr. Speaker, this report provides an overview of our current research initiatives and summarizes those issues people told us about during our most recent regional consultations. Some of these issues reinforce recommendations that we have made in earlier reports. Some particularly compelling ones are reflected in recommendations in this report.
Research Projects
Front Line Worker Survey
Housing And Health Study
Another study we have under way is a study on housing and health. The Science Institute of the NWT is administering our study on health issues related to housing. We will use data on housing conditions and crowding gathered in last year's housing survey carried out by the NWT Housing Corporation. This data will then be compared to various health indicators tracked by the Department of Health and others. Our goal is to clarify the links between people's housing and the health and social problems that they experience.
The study will be carried out by Dr. Kue Young of the northern health research unit. Dr. Young recently carried out a literature review on the relationship between housing, community infrastructure, and health on Indian reserves across southern Canada. He was also involved in a recent major health study in the Keewatin region.
The NWT Housing Corporation recognizes the value of this study and is paying half the costs. The committee appreciates this contribution.
Community Control Project
The third research project that we have undertaken examines the topic of community control. We think that it is important to learn from the mistakes and successes of other northern and aboriginal communities who have taken local control of social or health services. We want to be able to share their experiences with interested people in communities here. This project will look at what has been written about community control and present those factors the people have found important to the success of such shifts of control.
We will be releasing the results of these research projects over the coming months as they are completed.
Amalgamation
Mr. Speaker, in our discussions with the deputy minister from the Yukon, we heard clearly that it does not necessarily follow that amalgamation of the Departments of Health and Social Services will lead to more integrated programs. She pointed to the fact that although her department had been amalgamated for about ten years, the Health and Social Service divisions had maintained their solitudes until recently.
"The amount of activity that occurred between the two sides of the department was negligible. People did not talk to each other in the design of policy or the design of programs or services....Even in the policy unit, we had people that were assigned to health projects and those assigned to social services projects that did not talk to each other."
Mr. Speaker, while their are arguments for integrating certain programs to increase efficiency, the Yukon experience does not support the view that amalgamation will necessarily lead to cooperation. The integration of specific programs or consolidation of program responsibilities in one department may be more effective ways of improving the delivery of health and social services.
Regional Consultation
Mr. Speaker, during the last week in January committee Members listened to the concerns and ideas of people in Fort Simpson, Kakisa, Fort Providence, Hay River and on the Hay River Reserve. We started the week with a drum dance on Sunday night in Fort Simpson. From what we heard informally that night we knew there was great interest in the community about health and social issues.
On Monday we participated in a regional workshop where a variety of people shared their thoughts on a theme of mental health and healing. Later in the day we met with members of the local
chapter of the registered nurses association.
Tuesday was filled with a variety of individual meetings with groups and individuals. We had lunch with the elders living in the Stanley Isiah senior citizens' home and met in the afternoon with grade 11 students at Thomas Simpson school. That night we held our first public meeting of the week. Over 45 people attended the meeting in the cultural centre. Thirteen presenters talked about a wide range of local health and social issues.
On Wednesday morning we left Fort Simpson. Deputy chairman, Fred Koe and Dennis Patterson flew to Fort Providence. Myself and Jeannie Marie-Jewell went on to Hay River and were joined there by John Ningark .
Upon arriving at Fort Providence, Mr. Koe and Mr. Patterson were driven to Kakisa to share a bannock and stew lunch with the chief and members of the band council. After hearing their concerns, Members returned to Fort Providence to meet with local elders. That night, we held our second public meeting of the week with over 40 people attending. Nine speakers told us about their concerns.
Thursday in Fort Providence, Members met with local service providers and, later with students and adult learners at Deh Gah elementary school. That afternoon, they capitalized on the opportunity to hear from a large group of social services workers who were in town for a regional meeting.
Meanwhile, in Hay River, Members met Wednesday with two groups of local youth and a gathering of elders at Riverview Lodge. Thursday they held meetings with adult learners, service providers, and the community working group on health services. That night, we held our third public meeting at the community centre. There were 40 people in attendance with ten participants sharing their views on local issues and concerns. On Friday, meetings were held with staff at Social Services, home care and at the Hay River treatment centre.
Mr. Speaker, I would now like to ask the deputy chair to continue with the report.
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 815
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Koe .
What We Heard
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 815
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say a few words about what we heard. During our five days in the region people told us many things. Some of the issues echoed those we had heard in the Keewatin. Other concerns expressed were unique to the area. Underlying many comments was a central theme: people want more local resources, more access to services, more skills, more training and support for local staff and, especially, more local control over the services provided to community members to help them meet their personal needs.
On the other hand, we heard many calls for the Government of the Northwest Territories "to do something" about many things. It was as if some saw the territorial government as the only party who could take action to address many of the concerns raised. This was the case even when the mandate and opportunity was already there for the issues to be resolved locally. Much of what people saw as being wrong did not meet government policy or program changes, just local community action.
An example of this centred around concerns in one community about access to health services. Some residents noted the lack of reliable transportation to the health centre. They also told us their concerns with the current sick clinic schedule. They looked to our committee for resolution of these concerns. In a meeting with local health personnel we heard of their frustration that they could not get out into the community to liaise with local officials and gain community input. The staff wished for the establishment of a local health committee that could help them plan clinic hours and clarify other local needs and priorities.
Both residents and local service providers wanted the same thing. Neither group appeared to realize this however, because there was no communication between them. To resolve the issues facing them in their community, they need to start talking to each other. With some time to sit and talk together, the two groups will probably discover that they do want the same things. To allow that to happen, staff will need time away from their service provision duties and residents may need some encouragement to share their concerns with staff.
Here, perhaps, the Government of the Northwest Territories could help by providing relief staff or skills training for local health committee volunteers. Such basic support for efforts to build on local strengths and abilities can play an important role in preparing communities for taking on more responsibilities in both health and social service delivery.
I would like to quote from Jim Antoine , MLA, "There is a real need to develop the communities to a level where they are able to even start thinking or talking about taking over programs and services."
A complicating factor is that there is not much ongoing support available to develop community leadership skills. Training in community development used to be part of the preparation for settlement and band councillors and administrators. Workshops on an approach to community development called "popular education" were offered through the Department of Health. They are no longer being offered. At Arctic College, out of a curriculum of 20 courses, social work students now take two courses in community development. Given this situation, there is little opportunity for training to help empower community members and to support them in their efforts to take more control over local services.
As far as we are aware, there is currently only one community development worker now doing such work. This lone worker is employed by the Status of Women Council and works with women's groups. Some northern consultants also have strong community development skills but few communities have the resources to pay for these services.
What follows is an overview of the major issues that were raised during our consultation. The issues are arranged according to the subject or to the target group to which they primarily apply.
Health Care Delivery
Improved access to services and more local control over those services were the most common issues raised in the area of health care delivery. There were many calls for the establishment of a regional health board. Concerns were strongly expressed that people did not feel as if they had meaningful input into the decisions being made about their health care. Some speakers did not believe the current regional health planning initiatives would be successful. They saw it as a process imposed by the department that was not accepted by the residents.
In Fort Simpson we clearly heard that residents did not want any reduction in their access to health services. Some called for improved and expanded services. We heard constructive suggestions about how existing community resources could be restructured so as to better meet local needs for services like extended care and home care services. Such suggestions may be of great help to the community health working group grappling with these issues, if they first deal with the issue of the credibility of the process.
In Hay River and elsewhere there were concerns expressed that the composition of the H H Williams hospital board did not reflect the profile of the population that it served. Some expressed strong concerns that the religious beliefs of the sponsoring body and of some staff meant that women have been denied abortion or birth control related services.
Various groups told us that they did not feel that they treated fairly by the health care system because of their age or ethnic background. Specific cases were presented to us where individuals were misdiagnosed or otherwise poorly served by the system.
People in small communities wanted more ability to respond to local health emergencies. They called for better communication to outside resources and for stronger pain medication to be available while they waited for help to arrive. People in all communities wanted access to a wider range of health services, including traditional health. We were told of cases of staff "jigging" the books to cover the costs of sending someone to a traditional healer. There were calls for more and legitimate access to such traditional methods of health care.
Participants wanted more resources spent on prevention. Both health care providers and service users called for more prevention, but we sometimes got the feeling that each party thought that the other group did not support it.
Residents wanted to reduce the turnover of medical staff. Home care was also supported.
This range of concerns about health care delivery suggest that the current health planning efforts in the region will be a challenging process.
HIV/AIDS
Some speakers expressed strong fear about getting AIDS. They wanted to know who had AIDS so they could take steps to avoid getting it. Some speakers wanted regional statistics released on people who are HIV positive:
"It will tell us and our children that this thing is very near us," helping make the issue more real and making the people more aware and more careful.
Others feared that they may be HIV positive but were afraid to get tested locally in case word got out that they were doing so. Some youth said that they did not have enough information on the disease. Social service workers raised questions about who could give permission for testing of children in foster care. They also called for training about AIDS and about how to work effectively and safely with HIV positive clients.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn over the next portion to my colleague, Dennis Patterson .
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 816
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Patterson .
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 816
Dennis Patterson
Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Elders
One general observation about our meetings with elders was just how pleased they were that someone was interested in their situation. We got the feeling they seldom have a chance to talk about their needs and concerns.
There are growing numbers of elders in the region. To ensure that their needs are taken care of, planning is needed. Home care is seen as a preferred method of supporting elders who want to continue to live independently. Supporters noted that it is cost-effective compared to institutional care and results in better quality of life for elders. There were calls for the expansion of home care service in Hay River and for its establishment in Fort Simpson.
Concerns were expressed that current line-by-line funding arrangements allowed little flexibility to hospitals which also operate home care services. They cannot transfer funds to home care if demand warrants. As well, they may find themselves in a conflict of interest in such a situation. It was noted that if there are empty beds in the hospital, the institution may be hard pressed, from a financial point of view, to encourage care of patients in their own homes.
When institutional care is required, speakers called for regional access to level III and IV care. Elders living in the lodge in Fort Providence had ideas as to how their situation could be improved, pointing out some repairs needed in their facility. The elders asked that their smokehouse be moved and a wood stove installed in it, so they would be able to use it to prepare hides and to cook their own food when the weather was nice. There were calls to free up more of the staff's time to care for elders and for more collective preparation of food as is done in Rae.
Elders we visited in the Hay River facility wanted more recreational activities and more field trips. Woodland Manor staff need funds to operated their donated van so they can take their residents out into the community.
Lodge residents wanted more country food to eat. Lodge staff said that they wanted to provide it but that there were some difficulties. Precautions need to be taken to ensure that the meat is safe. For example, we were told that wild meat had to be brought from Yellowknife as there is no way to get wild meat inspected or processed locally in an approved facility.
It was also pointed out that institutional beds need to be available to offer respite care for elders and others being looked after by family members. This would give such family care givers an occasional break and help prevent burnout and possible subsequent institutionalization of the elder. Calls were made for training to be offered to family members on how to take of elderly or disabled family members at home.
Many elders wanted more flexible access to health care. House calls were mentioned as one way to deal with the problems they encountered in getting to medical appointments. Many elders required transportation to medical and other appointments in order to maintain their independence. Some wondered why GNWT vehicles could not be made available to provide such transportation.
Elders also commented, as did others, about turnover of medical staff. One commented that she was tired of being a guinea pig for newly graduated doctors. There were suggestions that turnover played some role in cases of misdiagnosis of diseases such as cancer because medical personnel did not have the chance to get to know their patients. Cross-cultural training and community orientation were recommended for new medical practitioners. One person suggested that local health committee members could play an important role in this regard.
As we heard in the Keewatin, people had concerns about medevacs of elders. They wanted better briefing for patients and their escorts before the trip. They wanted to be sure that the escort could interpret for the elder and was assertive in dealing with medical personnel so that the patient clearly understood what was being said or done to him or her.
There were complaints about the seniors' wood subsidy. People told us that five cords were not enough to heat elders' homes throughout the entire winter. We were told that some elders left their homes and had to move in with relatives when the wood ran out. Such comments suggest that there is significant misunderstanding about the intent of this subsidy program.
If the wood subsidy is not intended to meet all the fuel needs for elders living in their own homes, then that fact needs to be clarified for recipients and their families and communities. Then if elders need more fuel, other ways could be found to gather the additional wood that they need to make it through the heating season.
Children And Youth
Young people who spoke to us shared a common concern that there were not enough constructive and fun things to do in their communities. They spoke of barriers that prevented them from enjoying activities, such as lack of public transportation or the costs of recreational programs. In each community youth called for a safe place that they could hang out. Most agreed that alcohol was readily available and that many weekend activities involved drinking.
Youth were concerned about others too. They wanted to be sure that single parents get the child care they need in order to be able to finish school and that victims of family violence have local safe shelters to which they can go.
Some wanted more information about all aspects of sexuality. They wanted more than just pamphlets; they wanted to talk to someone. Some who had gone through a week-long workshop on the topic spoke very highly of their experience and wanted more of these types of forums
Both children and adults raised concerns about child welfare. It was suggested that there was a need for more prevention measures such as family support. People who tell Social Services about children who need help should be told what action has been taken to investigate their complaint. To ensure quality care for a child while in the care of the department, some suggested that foster parents need to be given more training and support. This was echoed by staff who work with foster parents.
One child abuse counsellor told us, "We spend lots of money responding to the symptoms of (child sexual) abuse such as alcohol addiction but little on the root cause."
People pointed out that there were not enough services available to child sexual abuse victims or offenders. There was a call to treat offenders while they are in jail and afterwards so they can start to heal and not continue to offend. Resources are needed to pay for specialized counselling services to help victims heal. Staff expressed frustration that sometimes they needed to mask the abuse issues and label a client's problem as one of addiction to get the money to send the client for the help he or she needed.
Parents and professionals told us of the lack of services and funding for young people with special needs. We heard how the Deh Cho divisional board of education overspends its special needs budget allocation in trying to meet the needs of students. Despite this additional expenditure, parents told us that their children are still not getting services such as speech therapy that they need. We heard that the needs in the NWT for special services and support for students are 50 to 100 per cent higher than in other jurisdictions in Canada.
In one school in the region, about 50 per cent of the students have special needs. There was also concern that assessments on children with special needs are often done in the south and the resulting recommendations cannot be carried out in some communities or are at odds with the NWT policy on inclusive schooling.
Some young people with special needs fall through the cracks. One young adult with a spinal cord injury is effectively trapped in his home. This is due partly to the cold weather and his health. As well, the back for his new electric wheelchair has been missing ever since he returned from picking the wheelchair up in Edmonton over six months ago. The back was to have been shipped two days later, but is still apparently on back order. Without this part, his mobility is restricted as he only has use of his manual wheelchair.
His mobility is further impaired by a shortage of drivers and some winter related limitations of the local wheelchair van. Even if transportation is available, there are few buildings in his community that are wheelchair accessible. Finally, his rehabilitation is stalled and his condition is deteriorating to some degree due to lack of physiotherapy services.
A second example involved a young person whose treatment program in the south was shut down in a GNWT cost-cutting move. The youth was brought back to his community where some specialized services that he needs are not available. The youth's parents wondered what happened to the money saved by closing down the southern treatment program. They did not see evidence that it had been invested in providing appropriate services to people with special needs in their community.
The committee supports repatriating northerners with special needs from southern institutions where appropriate, and keeping the money spent on their care in the north. People should not be moved back just to cut costs, however, and then left at home without needed support and treatment services. We need to ensure that the person will at least maintain a comparable quality of life. Respite care is clearly an important service where family members are looking after the person at home.
The need for regional youth treatment services was raised as an issue. We heard of regional plans to act on this and offer such services on a pilot basis next summer.
Problems that arise with custom adoptions came up more than once. Situations were related where various benefits including band membership and child tax benefit were denied to children because the adoption paperwork had not been done.
Mr. Speaker, I would now like to turn the next part of this report over to my colleague, Mr. John Ningark . Thank you.
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 818
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Ningark .
Alcohol And Drugs
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 818
John Ningark
Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My
section is alcohol and drugs. Two main issues emerged in the area of alcohol and drugs. The first was the need for more money to pay for treatment. Secondly, there were demands for more attention to be paid to the lasting effects that drinking can have on children born to women who drink while they are pregnant.
People involved in the care and treatment of children suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) or fetal alcohol effects (FAE) spoke very strongly about their concerns for these children. Current estimates are that 25 per cent of children in the region are FAS and FAE affected. One speaker called for more study of this problem to more accurately determine its extent and to explore the effects it has on the children and their families. Others were concerned about the impact that FAE and FAS affected children have on the school, health and social services.
To reduce the incidence of FAS, there were calls for tough measures including laying charges of criminal negligence against women who drink while pregnant. Others see such punitive action as "blaming the victim." In a broader view, to be effective in reducing the incidence of FAS, we were advised to look beyond the drinking and respond to the underlying issues that contribute to women drinking during pregnancy.
We were told that treatment money usually runs out in December of each fiscal year resulting in treatment being delayed or denied. People wanted to be sure that there would be regional input into the Hay River treatment centre program and that there would be Slavey speaking counsellors there. They wanted appropriate child care to be available for parents seeking treatment. Alternatively, people suggested offering family treatment which involved the children.
After completion of any treatment program, many stressed the importance of aftercare being available in the recovering person's home community to help support their sobriety. They also stressed that the aftercare counsellors had to earn the trust of their clients. Speakers told us they could earn this by keeping confidentiality and by displaying their counselling skills. Some called for more outreach activities to be undertaken by local A and D programs such as weekend activities for children.
People supported the idea of a mobile treatment team to work out of the Hay River centre, offering a thirty day program in people's own communities.
Social Assistance
Just as in the Keewatin, the primary concern expressed about social assistance is that the food allowance is not adequate enough to ensure that people can properly feed their families. In our third interim report, the committee recommended an immediate increase in the food allowance. We pointed out that the present food allowance does not come close, in any region of the NWT, to the cost of purchasing a nutritional supply of food. Since the government has not adequately responded to this recommendation, it was not surprising to again hear concern expressed about the level of the food allowance.
Other limitations brought to our attention included the perceived lack of benefits available to relatives, other than natural parents, who are raising children. Some speakers thought that mothers with custody of their children are required to seek maintenance from the father as a condition of their assistance. This is not a program requirement. These concerns and misunderstandings suggest that more education of clients about program benefits may help decrease the frustration that some feel.
People wanted more resources allocated to work projects or retraining initiatives.
Mr. Speaker, I will now give the report to Mr. Dent .
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 818
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Mr. Dent .
Front Line Workers
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 818
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During our visit we consulted extensively with front line workers. One of the biggest needs expressed by the social service workers with whom we met with was their need for more training and support as they carry out their duties. Because they have too many demands, they are only able to deal with the immediate crises that frequently happen among their clients. They wanted more supervision of their work and to be able to focus on a particular area of service delivery. They did not want to continue to try to be all things to all people. When workers get
stressed out trying to fulfil the expectations of their jobs, they want a counselling program to turn to for support for themselves.
Social service workers told us of the "no win" situation that they encounter with being on-call. Workers who respond to emergencies after hours get paid overtime. This money comes out of their office budget for casual wages. The more they respond to such emergencies, the less money is available to pay casual staff to cover for people on holidays or on other leave. Without such vacation coverage, more crises erupt on that unattended caseload, leading to more after-hours emergencies that lead to more overtime, et cetera.
Workers feel that they have insufficient resources to be effective in their jobs. We heard about workers having to carry a child they were apprehending down the street with a parent following because they had no access to a vehicle. The lack of money to pay for specialized counselling for troubled clients was noted. Workers talked about starting the year in a deficit position due to unfunded positions. The salary funds for these unfunded positions must be recovered from other budget areas as the year progresses to ensure that the budget balances at year end.
We heard about the "loss of intent" that seems to happen between the formulation of a policy and its implementation. Between lack of resources and the time it takes to bring about such changes, what they end up with is not always very close to what the original intention was.
Concern was expressed that initiatives suggested regionally get tied up too long at department headquarters. The annual contracting process was seen as very time consuming and slow. Groups who receive funding echoed these concerns and spoke about having to arrange credit to cover payroll or other expenses when departmental funding was delayed.
Communities served by a lay dispenser called for a back up person to fill in when the dispenser is out of the community. More training is need for the lay dispenser in areas like suicide intervention and follow-up.
Healing
Mr. Speaker, we heard a great deal about the healing process. Many northerners experience difficulties coping with the demands of their everyday lives. This dysfunction may have its roots in alcoholism or family violence, sexual, physical or emotional abuse that occurred in a family or in a residential school. If we are to help people overcome these difficulties we need to give them the opportunity to heal. To be effective, healing has to not only deal with the symptoms of dysfunction but also the underlying causes.
I quote Betty Hardisty, "I look at it like peeling an onion, once you deal with the alcoholism...there are all kinds of abuse underneath."
Some speakers shared their journeys of healing from the physical, sexual and cultural abuse they experienced in residential schools.
I quote Percy Hardisty, "...what about the people who have been abused in the residences? I believe that once these abuses have been dealt with, people will not cover it up with alcohol..."
There was widespread support for more resources for healing initiatives such as counselling and workshops, healing circles and providing people access to resource materials.
For most, healing is the necessary first step for individuals, families and communities, before meaningful attempts to take more control at the community level can be successful. As we recommended in our last report, counselling and support are needed at the community level. With training and professional and personal support, caring people such as elders can play an important role in helping people heal.
Recommendations
Mr. Speaker, we have three recommendations coming out of our regional travel. The first has to do with health service delivery.
Health Service Delivery
It is clearly important to the people of this region that they have more direct influence on health service delivery. We heard that there is a definite lack of trust in the system and widespread concern that important decisions are being made without public involvement.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, we recommend that a regional board of health be established in the Deh Cho region.
Our second recommendation is to do with clinical fetal alcohol syndrome.
Clinical Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Study
Many people were concerned over the numbers of children displaying the symptoms of fetal alcohol syndrome or effects. The recently completed Fort Simpson "community health profile" estimates that as many as 25 per cent of the children in the region are so affected. Because of the wide ranging implications this has on many government services, the committee feels it is important to verify this estimate clinically. The results of the study could also help to ensure the accuracy of FAS/FAE statistics in future health profiles.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, we recommend that the Department of Health undertake a clinical study to determine the number of children affected by fetal alcohol effects and fetal alcohol syndrome in the Deh Cho region.
Our third recommendation deals with community empowerment.
Community Empowerment
A major concern of residents who spoke to us was the urgent need for assistance in developing the abilities of local people to control and deliver services. Community people want to help to develop local leadership skills. They want training for community workers who could work with other residents in clarifying local needs, determining priorities and developing plans to address these needs. Trainers could work on a rotating basis with three or four communities, spending a month in each community initially and then returning once a month for about a year or more to train and support local people. These local people would, in turn, be working to train and support others.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, we recommend that the government fund a pilot project to offer community leadership development assistance.
Conclusion
Mr. Speaker, that concludes the fourth interim report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services.
Motion To Move Committee Report 12-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole
I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik , that the fourth interim report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services be received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into committee of the whole for consideration.
---Applause
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 820
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
The motion is in order. To the motion.
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 820
An Hon. Member
Question.
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Committee Report 12-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services Interim Report No. 4
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 820
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried
Report 12-12(3), Special Committee on Health and Social Services Interim Report No. 4 will be moved into committee of the whole. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Koe .
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Committee Report 13-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions Interim Report On The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 820
Fred Koe
Inuvik
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions has an interim report on the Northwest Territories Power Corporation.
The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions, under the authority given to it by this House, has been reviewing matters related to the Northwest Territories Power Corporation.
Throughout the review process, the standing committee has been focusing on the following aspects: the mandate, organization structure and operations of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; the composition and duties of the corporation's board of directors and senior management; working relationships between the board of directors and the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation ; statutory and procedural relations between the power corporation and the Northwest Territories Public Utilities Board; pertinent legislation, regulations and policy; current physical holdings, capital financing and the capital upgrade program; research, evaluation and development policy at the power corporation; models and procedures for community consultation and input; policies and procedures for effecting positive customer relations; and, principles and proposed approaches related to privatization of the Power Corporation.
The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions held initial public hearings in Yellowknife on November 25, 1992. At that time the standing committee invited the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea , and senior corporation officials to appear as witnesses. Witness representation was also received from the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. The chairperson of the Public Utilities Board appeared before the standing committee as a witness, as well.
A subcommittee held public hearings on February 2, 1993, in Inuvik. These focused on future planning activities for the Power Corporation and, specifically, on policies established or research, evaluation and development. The Minister responsible for the Power Corporation attended as a witness, along with the chairperson of the board of directors and several senior officials. Witnesses representing the Union of Northern Workers also presented a brief commentary on the proposed privatization of the Power Corporation.
A second subcommittee held further open meetings and round table discussions in Cape Dorset on February 2, 1993, to focus on community input processes and customer relations policy. The hamlet council and other key stakeholders were represented at discussion sessions.
Public hearings were also held before the second subcommittee in Iqaluit on February 4, 1993, to consider current physical holdings and the capital planning process. Senior corporation officials appeared as witnesses during those public hearings. Representation was also made by the Union of Northern Workers at the Iqaluit hearings, again on the subject of privatization. The standing committee also heard from several other public witnesses, as well.
In addition, Members of the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions have also been provided with an opportunity to tour power plant facilities in Iqaluit, Inuvik, Cape Dorset and Lake Harbour. This has provided an invaluable perspective on the scope and technical challenges of operations within the Power Corporation. It has also conveyed an understanding of the differences which exist between communities with respect to the age and technology of their power plants.
Plans had also been made for a subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions to hold public consultations in Tuktoyaktuk and Aklavik. The standing committee very much regrets the fact that inclement weather prevented air travel and resulted in the cancellation of these meetings. Members look forward to visiting those communities should the opportunity arise on a future occasion.
The standing committee wishes to acknowledge the cooperation and thoughtful input received from witnesses during all public hearings and consultations.
This input, as well as the examination of planning documents, policy directives and statistics provided by corporation officials, will form the basis for future comments and recommendations arising from the standing committee's review. The committee will meet during the summer months for further public hearings and to examine the additional issues arising from information provided to date.
In addition to continuing its review of issues raised during initial hearings, further areas for committee examination include, but are not limited to: the record of return on shareholders' equity; the allocation of funds and human resources to support corporate administrative requirements; the framework for corporate decision-making; corporate activities to encourage and support the use of northern labour, materials and resources; contracting and purchasing policies and performance within the Power Corporation; the nature of the employee work environment; Power Corporation initiatives aimed at the introduction of cost-effective alternate energy sources; strategies undertaken by the Power Corporation to encourage energy conservation; levels of responsibility demonstrated by the Power Corporation in addressing environmental issues; accountability mechanisms, including a further review of the statutory authorities of the Public Utilities Board, the Minister, the Cabinet and the Legislative Assembly; relations between the Power Corporation and non-government utilities in the Northwest Territories; the potential for agreements with other jurisdictions, including potential for the sale of energy outside the Northwest Territories; rationale, principles and proposed approaches related to the privatization of the Power Corporation; and, larger issues related to the impact of the Power Corporation on corporate and consumer affairs in the Northwest Territories.
Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions wishes to acknowledge the excellent cooperation and assistance received to date from the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and her officials, as well as from the Public Utilities Board.
The standing committee looks forward to completing its review and is confident that the current process will result in a constructive and well-documented final report.
Mr. Speaker, that concludes the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions' interim report on the Northwest Territories Power Corporation.
Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 13-12(3)
Therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh , that the interim report on the Northwest Territories Power Corporation be received and adopted. Mahsi.
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Committee Report 13-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions Interim Report On The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 821
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Motion is in order. To the motion.
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Committee Report 13-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions Interim Report On The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 821
An Hon. Member
Question.
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Committee Report 13-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions Interim Report On The Northwest Territories Power Corporation
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Page 821
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.
---Carried
Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Mr. Dent .
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Motion 19-12(3): Appointment Of Alternate Members And Final Report Date For The Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Item 13: Notices Of Motion
Page 821
Charles Dent
Yellowknife Frame Lake
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that, on Thursday, March 11, I will move the following motion. I move seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit , notwithstanding rule 89(2), that the Legislative Assembly consents to the membership of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services to include two alternate Members. And further, that the Special Committee on Health and Social Services' terms of reference be amended to permit the presentation of the final report on November 30, 1993.
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Motion 19-12(3): Appointment Of Alternate Members And Final Report Date For The Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Item 13: Notices Of Motion
Page 821
The Speaker
Michael Ballantyne
Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Tabled Document 2-12(3), The Justice House - Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Tabled Document 3-12(3), Report of the Commission for Constitutional Development; Tabled Document 49-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Bill 5,
An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act ; Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94 ; Minister's Statement 34-12(3), Long-Term Staff Housing Strategy; Committee Report 10-12(3), Report on Tabled Document 21-12(3): Payroll Tax Act; Committee Report 11-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Main Estimates, appearance by members of the commission for constitutional development, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 821
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. The committee will now come to order. When we concluded yesterday, we were on Bill 17, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94 , and the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance had just concluded his opening remarks on the Department of Transportation. What is the wish of the committee? Do we have the concurrence of the committee that we continue with the Department of Transportation?
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Are there any general comments? We will take a 15 minute break and then come back.
---SHORT RECESS
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
This committee will come to order. Mr. Todd , before we proceed with general comments do you wish to bring in your witnesses?
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
John Todd
Keewatin Central
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses.
Mr. Todd , for the record can you please introduce the witnesses.
Department Of Transportation
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
John Todd
Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Gamble, deputy minister, Department of Transportation and Mr. Winsor, director of finance.
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. We are on page 09-8. Are there any general comments? Mr. Gargan .
General Comments
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I do not have a written submission. However, I do have some observations with regard to this department. Mr. Chairman, I purchased a vehicle in August. To date, it has 30,000 miles on it. I wanted to mention that even though we have patrols done by the department, we do not seem to see those vehicles on the highway system. With the conditions of the highways steadily improving, we have also seen a steady increase in the speed limits of the trucks who travel the highway. In most cases, Mr. Chairman, I stop completely when I see a large truck approaching, for my own safety.
We do not see many patrols of the highways with regard to safety. What exactly are we spending on highway patrols?
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Mr. Todd .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
John Todd
Keewatin Central
Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that we spend somewhere in the region of $216,000 on highway patrols at the present time.
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Gargan .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the program first started a couple of years ago, there were 15 traffic tickets given out. For last year and the year before, how many traffic tickets were given out? Has it increased at all? Has it reduced? What is the trend?
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
John Todd
Keewatin Central
The patrol operations in 1992 resulted in 60
summary offenses under the Motor Vehicles Act for speeding. Most of these tickets were issued to drivers travelling 30 clicks per hour or more over the posted speed limit. Patrollers gave out 65 warnings to trucks under the large vehicle control regulations and issued 33
summary offence tickets. The offenses were mainly for axle weight and vehicle dimension infractions. That is for 1992. I do not have the figures for 1990 or 1991, but I can provide them to the honourable Member, either today or tomorrow. Whether it is a trend moving in that direction, being a new Minister, I am not sure. Those are the statistics for 1992.
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Mr. Gargan .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister if his department has ever looked at the feasibility or the possibility of restricting truckers on our highway system on certain days. The largest volume of traffic that travels south is from Yellowknife. I am sure as far as the insurance companies are concerned, much of the insurance coverage deals with windshields and rock damage. I no longer buy windshield insurance because it costs more than the windshield itself. I am sure this is one of the biggest problems on our highway system.
I have asked our research people to look at what other jurisdictions have restrictions with regard to the transportation of large vehicles. Is this something which you are looking at?
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
John Todd
Keewatin Central
Mr. Chairman, I understand that this issue has been raised before. The department has been looking at it since 1992 when Mrs. Marie-Jewell raised the issue. The department has checked with other provincial jurisdictions. It is our understanding that no jurisdiction in Canada, at the present time, prohibits the movement of tractor-trailer transports on Sundays or on the weekend, as I think the honourable Member is perhaps suggesting. The province of Ontario, at one time, had a Sunday-ban on what they called the Lord's Day Act.
The ban was struck down in 1984 on constitutional grounds and the province of Ontario has made no attempt to reintroduce the ban. It is the position of the department, that given the amount of long distance hauling in the north, a Sunday or a weekend restriction on truck traffic would be very disruptive in the scheduling of deliveries. At this time, from the work we have done, there is no jurisdiction in Canada that restricts this. The road system is slightly different, I suspect, in most of the provinces because it is hard-topped.
I suspect the difficulties which are encountered in our highways are significantly different than the QEW in Ontario or the Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia. However, there is no legislation as such that would restrict or ban major transportation.
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
The Chair
John Ningark
Mr. Gargan .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 822
Samuel Gargan
Deh Cho
One of the other difficulties which we have in the north is with regard to the width of our highways. I think most of the highways are 16 feet wide. They are not wide, but we still allow wide vehicles on our system. Flashing lights are required on any vehicle which is six feet wide. In other jurisdictions, if the vehicle is too wide, to a certain footage, it is not allowed on the highway system. Why do we allow this to
happen in the north when our roads are much narrower than in southern jurisdictions?
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 823
The Chair
John Ningark
Mr. Todd .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 823
John Todd
Keewatin Central
The long-term objective of the department is to bring the width and standard of the roads up to the national safety code. We were an active participant in that over the last four or five years. Now we have taken over the full jurisdiction for looking after that. I am told, where there are extraordinary circumstances, such as large trucks with extraordinary size loads, permission is given for these loads to travel on our roads under certain restrictions. For example, with some kind of escort, et cetera.
In an ideal world, we would have the kinds of roads we need or we would acquire the quality of roads we would need. However, that is not the case at the present time. In looking at some of the road works that have been going on in the past, and what looks like what is going to go on in the future, those kinds of concerns that you raised with respect to width and bends, et cetera, are all being looked at.
Every effort is being made by the department, particularly in engineering, to bring the highways up to grade and to meet the kind of standards so there will be a limited amount of restrictions with respect to trucking.
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 823
The Chair
John Ningark
Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Whitford .
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Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 823
Tony Whitford
Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. By way of comments on the review of the Transportation budget, there were a couple of concerns directed to the Minister. In this forum, rather than another one Mr. Gargan did touch on, is the restriction on wide vehicles on the majority of the roads in the Northwest Territories. I realize the department is making great strides in bringing them up to standard of the provinces, but they are narrower and we have less blacktop than we would like to see. When it comes to wide loads, there are two things that stand out. The fact is, the vehicles are travelling at a fairly good rate of speed.
Although they have pilot cars, it has been my experience in the past to see these pilot cars quite far ahead, and perhaps not as close to the vehicle as they should be. Although there is a set distance, that is not being strictly complied with. There is a distance that is set by regulation to alert the public that there is a wide load coming, but you have no idea, simply by seeing a flashing light and a little truck ahead that says "wide load," of what is coming along behind. In some cases, it is a half of a kilometre. At other times, I have seen up to three or four kilometres. You could not see the pilot car.
Getting to the size of the load, they travel at a posted rate of speed but, as Mr. Gargan pointed out, sometimes it does not give the general public a very comfortable feeling seeing a very wide piece of equipment coming down the road at posted speed. Perhaps, these wider loads could be restricted to slow down a bit and give the travelling public a bit of confidence and security.
The other comment that I was making, and I did ask the question earlier on, is that Alberta has taken the initiative in the last while, through a change in Ministers, to reduce the amount of vehicle inspections, either as a cost-saving measure or due to pressure from the industry. Although, from what I can gather from looking at this issue, it appears that it is more of a cost-saving measure than anything else.
I think I asked the question earlier on about whether this territorial government was contemplating a reduction in the heavy vehicle inspections, recognizing the fact that it has only been in the last few years that the service has developed to what it is today. We know that transportation is an important part of the industry in the territories. Every time you stop a vehicle, it is time off the road, but it is money well spent because you have an industry that is safe, not only for the industry itself, but also for the travelling public on the highway.
I would like to encourage the government, if they are considering a reduction in service, not to contemplate that, because if you check with the industry you will find the majority of trucking companies that are based in the territories endorse the efforts that are being put into vehicle inspections to ensure that, not only themselves, but the travelling public is protected. There have been instances where the industry received some bad press because of equipment that was on the highway that should not have been there. In the last few years, the government has turned that around.
I realize I am not giving the Minister a chance to answer these issues, but these are merely comments which can be noted and, if there is a comment, I would appreciate it. The summer time is coming along. There will be much construction taking place on the highway, hopefully. One of the things that the travelling public is increasingly aware of, certainly between Yellowknife and Fort Providence, is the amount of water that is being put on the road. You drive by any day during the week, rain or shine, and it is almost as if it rained.
In cases, I have seen trucks watering the road when they really should not, in my opinion. I recognize the fact that they do contract out to put on so many miles or gallons, but if you look when you drive down that highway, you will see where the water trucks have been passing by and the water has run off into the ditch almost as fast as it could go on the road. In my opinion, and many of the travelling public's opinion, too much water is being put on the road. It could, in some cases, become a hazard, not only visibility wise where you get your window full o