Debates of Oct. 19th, 2005

This is page numbers 369 - 412 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was decision .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

National Foster Family Week

NWT Recreation And Parks Association Trail Building Fund

Review Of The NWT Liquor Act

Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Relocation Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Hiring Practices Of Diamond Mines

Restrictions On Caribou Harvesting

Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Helping The Youth Of Our Communities

Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Political Decisions Of Government

Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

National Foster Family Week

Territorial Treatment Centre

Caribou Herd Management

Active Living Programs

Cabinet Decision Process

Boards And Agencies Representation

Territorial Treatment Centre

Speaker's Ruling

Territorial Treatment Centre

Reopening Of Dene K'onia Young Offender Facility

Territorial Treatment Centre

Support Services For Youth And Children

Territorial Treatment Centre

Territorial Treatment Centre

Written Question 15-15(4): Medical Health Treatment

Contract For Treatment Services

Fort Liard Ferry Crossing Dispute

Sole Source Contracting

Decision To Relocate The Territorial Treatment Centre

Territorial Treatment Centre

After-school Programs For Youth

Benefits Of The Novel Housing Project

Novel Housing Project

Decision To Relocate The Territorial Treatment Centre

Contaminated Site In Tulita

Ingraham Trail Monitoring

Novel Housing Project

point Of Order

Return To Written Question 7-15(4): Summer Students Statistics

Petition 2-15(4): Children's Treatment Programs For Yellowknife

Tabled Document 35-15(4): 2005 Summer Student Employment Program

Tabled Document 36-15(4): 2004-2005 Performance And Accountability Report

Tabled Document 37-15(4): NWT Development Corporation 2004-2005 Annual Report

Tabled Document 38-15(4): NWT Power Corporation 2004-2005 Annual Report

Tabled Document 39-15(4): Letter To Minister Miltenberger From Yellowknife Education District No. 1 Re: Territorial Treatment Centre

Tabled Document 40-15(4): Letter From Bern Will Brown Re: Fuel Prices

Tabled Document 41-15(4): E-mail Correspondence From Dave Murray Re: Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Tabled Document 42-15(4): Inventory Of Services For Children In Yellowknife Circa 1997

Tabled Document 43-15(4): Cbc Radio Transcript Dated June 24, 2005 Re: Territorial Treatment Centre

Tabled Document 44-15(4): Package Of 163 Letters Of Complaint Re: Liard River Ferry Dispute

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 3:

An Act To Amend The Access To Information And Protection Of Privacy Act

Bill 9: Municipal Statutes Amendment Act

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 369

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. For the information of Members, languages in the House today are Inuktitut and Tlicho. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 42-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 369

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in honour of National Foster Family Week, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the enormous contributions of foster families toward the healthy growth and development of our most precious resource: our children and youth.

---Applause

Foster families are an important part of the system of services that care for our children. Their work goes beyond providing children with food and shelter. These families give children a safe and nurturing home environment while also caring for their educational, medical and developmental needs.

Today's foster parent is a key member of a team of people dedicated to helping children and youth. Working with child protection workers, mental health professionals, teachers and the community as a whole, foster parents provide children and youth with a safe and healthy environment designed to meet their health, developmental, emotional, cultural and spiritual needs.

The NWT has a proud and committed group of foster families who open their hearts and homes to children and youth. Last year, there were approximately 450 foster homes in the Northwest Territories. This includes approximately 190 regular foster homes, 170 extended family foster homes, and 90 provisional foster homes. These homes provided much needed services to 1,035 children during the course of the year.

However, Mr. Speaker, we continue to need more foster families in our communities. Having enough homes is crucial to matching children and youth with families based on the child's needs and cultural identity. We need to recruit new families, as there are still some children who need a caring and supportive home environment.

In an effort to continually improve the system, and to improve the ability to recruit and retain qualified foster care homes, the Department of Health and Social Services, in consultation with the regional authority directors of social programs, will be conducting two major reviews in the upcoming months. An in-depth review of the current foster care and adoption practice standards will be completed by March 2006. As well, review and recommendations with respect to standardization of foster care rates will be completed by December 2005.

On behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, I wish to thank all the foster families in the NWT for their continued support, strength and, most importantly, willingness to care for the children and youth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 42-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 369

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod.

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Minister's Statement 43-15(4): NWT Recreation And Parks Association Trail Building Fund

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 369

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, this past July, I was pleased to announce an agreement with the Northwest Territories Recreation and Parks Association to provide financial support for a new Recreation Trail Building Program for our communities.

The Government of the Northwest Territories has committed $500,000 over the next five years to this program. This investment will then be combined with $160,000 in funding from the Trans Canada Trail Foundation to create a fund of $660,000.

Local trails in communities provide many benefits. For the residents, trails provide low cost recreation facilities that all residents can use for a variety of activities, including walking, biking, skiing and running. They are attractive to residents of all ages and can be used year round. Trails also help to support the tourism industry by providing an attraction to visitors. For communities, trails are a great facility option since they are less expensive to maintain than other types of recreation facilities.

Mr. Speaker, we share a vision with the NWT Recreation and Parks Association that all communities in the Northwest Territories will soon have attractive, multi-use trails for their residents.

It is important that we provide this type of infrastructure. This past year, the government launched a very successful Get Active NWT campaign that saw more than 15 percent of the territory's population take up the challenge to increase their physical activity. By supporting the development of safe, accessible facilities, we hope to encourage more people to get active.

In the coming years, as more trails are developed, we expect that campaigns like Get Active NWT will indicate higher rates of physical activity.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take a moment to recognize our partner in this program, the NWT Recreation and Parks Association, the official organization of the Trans Canada Trail in the Northwest Territories. This past year, they launched an ambitious new initiative that saw a local author, Mr. Jamie Bastedo, travel the entire length of the Trans Canada Trail in the Northwest Territories. The purpose of his trip was to conduct research for a guidebook that he is writing on the NWT portion of the Trans Canada Trail.

When this resource is complete, it will be an aid for any person traveling the trail, and help promote tourism by providing information about the amenities available in our communities.

The NWT Recreation and Parks Association has also been an active supporter of the Get Active NWT campaign, and is a leader and champion of active living in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 43-15(4): NWT Recreation And Parks Association Trail Building Fund

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 370

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Minister's Statement 44-15(4): Review Of The NWT Liquor Act

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 370

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, the NWT Liquor Act has been in place since the early 1980s and has not seen a substantive review in over a decade. The NWT has seen many changes since then, including division in 1999, a rapidly growing economy, and the advent of aboriginal self-government, among others. There have been numerous calls, including in this House, for a review that will identify ways to improve our liquor legislation by making it more flexible and adaptable to the needs and priorities of NWT residents.

This review began earlier this year. The public consultation process began this summer, and I am pleased to report, Mr. Speaker, that it has gone well. We have developed a discussion guide that summarizes the issues in the review, which also has been used as the basis for our consultation. The guide was mailed out this summer across the NWT to community governments, non-government organizations, and other stakeholders and interested groups with requests for comments. A web site was developed to provide a forum for distributing information, and for individuals to use to provide input and comment.

In addition, meetings were held with the Liquor Licensing Board, the RCMP, liquor inspectors, and other government institutions responsible for enforcing the Liquor Act. Separate meetings were held with liquor licensees in some NWT communities.

Community meetings were held in September in nine communities across the NWT. These were: Hay River, Inuvik, Fort McPherson, Tuktoyaktuk, Fort Good Hope, Norman Wells, Fort Simpson, Yellowknife, and Behchoko. In order to ensure that the process allowed for input from all communities, following a suggestion from the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight, funding was provided to bring two representatives from other communities to attend the public meeting in the nearest community.

Although the public meetings are now complete, NWT residents have until October 31, 2005, to submit their comments on the Liquor Act in writing to the Department of Finance, or online at the Department of Finance web site, by following the link to the Liquor Act review.

Mr. Speaker, we expect to receive the consultant's report in December, which will be made public. We are targeting introduction of the bill in the Legislative Assembly by late 2006.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Members of the Legislative Assembly, and their staff, for the invaluable help they provided in coordinating the consultation visits. I would also like to thank those NWT residents who have provided their comments so far on changes to the Liquor Act, and I encourage everyone who has an interest in this matter to provide their input. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 44-15(4): Review Of The NWT Liquor Act

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 370

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 370

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about something that I have brought up in this House many times before. That is the fair distribution of government jobs, capital infrastructure, and programs and services.

The NWT has a very heated economy at this time, and most of this is manifested here in the capital, Yellowknife. Most of this activity is driven by the private sector, and much of it is related to resource development. Yellowknife has been able to capitalize greatly on the addition of diamond minds, and I say good for them.

What I am concerned about is the growth related to government activity. When Hay River and Fort Smith worked hard for a little support from the GNWT, with the leverage that they had with loan guarantees, training dollars and their international jet-setting diamond secretariat, to see some of the cutting and polishing in our communities, we got nothing. When Hay River proved that we could easily accommodate the expansion of Correction Services at a cost much lower than that being proposed in Yellowknife, we got nothing. The $50 million jail came to Yellowknife, so it follows now that we need to build a $41 million courthouse to go with that jail.

When other communities put forward proposals for the new Business Development Investment Corporation headquarters, we got nothing. When the new human rights office was planned, communities like Fort Simpson, Hay River, Fort Smith and Inuvik put forward proposals, and we got nothing.

There have been good economic arguments put forward for years from other communities to absorb some of the expansion created by new and improved government

infrastructure and services, but decisions were obviously made on the basis of politics. When the Dene K'onia Young Offender Facility was shut down last year, sending our long-term, highly qualified staff in all directions in search of jobs, sending our youth from the South Slave to Yellowknife, we got nothing. Sure, the numbers were temporarily down, but everyone in Justice knew that those numbers were going to climb back up again, under the new Youth Justice Act.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recite the number of political decisions that have resulted in lost opportunities for our regions, outside of Yellowknife, to become more viable, but a Member's statement wouldn't allow enough time for that long list. We need more political decisions that will show a government and Ministers with enough backbone to say that we have a responsibility where possible and where efficiently we need to locate government infrastructure and services in the communities.

If the WCB headquarters is looking for waterfront property for a new corporate office, Hay River has beautiful waterfront property available right downtown. If the NWT Housing Corporation is going to be reprofiled and downsized, I am sure that Fort Smith or Inuvik would be happy to step up to the plate. Let's...

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Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mrs. Groenewegen , your time for your Members' statement has expired.

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Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

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Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. Let's get back to the kind of thinking that saw things like Arctic College campuses in Inuvik and Fort Smith, and NWT Library Services and the Power Corporation in Hay River, to name a few examples. This is a government of the Northwest Territories, not the government of Yellowknife, and it is time that the regions got together and said enough is enough. We are politicians, so let's get political. Thank you.

---Applause

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Fair Distribution Of Government Resources

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Relocation Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last spring the Minister of Health and Social Services stoically stood up in this House and defended the government's decision to relocate the Territorial Treatment Centre from Yellowknife to Hay River. The Yellowknife MLAs, and other Regular Members, waited patiently while the department scrambled to cobble together whatever information they had to base this decision on. What we received from the Minister was information that, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker, was either never read by Cabinet, or was completely disregarded in favour of moving this program out of Yellowknife.

The government also did not appreciate the fact that I was questioning them on whether or not they had even followed their own rules, as set out in the Financial Administration Manual. No consultation took place with Regular Members; we didn't see any business case. All we saw were capital dollars being funnelled out of this TTC program in Yellowknife to a completely different community. Of course, the government was adamant that every rule in the book was followed, Mr. Speaker, and that they did not violate the spirit and intent of their duty and obligation to consult Regular Members.

Mr. Speaker, I find it very ironic that this government is now proposing substantive provisions to that same FAM directive that was the focal point of my concerns back in June. Coincidence? I don't think so, Mr. Speaker.

I have come across a piece of correspondence, yesterday, between the deputy minister of Health and the Minister's office, dated May of last year, wherein the DM states, quite obviously, that the decision to move the TTC from Yellowknife to Hay River was one solely for political motives, not bureaucratic ones. Mr. Speaker, this is the smoking gun that has finally been unearthed.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to table that document at the appropriate time today. Why would the government take a program which has been highly successful, and rip its heart out solely for political gain? The government did not stop for a second and listen to its own departmental staff, experts, employees, MLAs, or anyone that could easily prove to them that this was not a good decision. Even the Minister's deputy could not defend the decision with any semblance of a proper business case.

How are we, as Regular Members, and the public, going to be able to trust Cabinet decisions now, knowing that they really do not need to have any rhyme nor reason before they make a decision? They just go ahead and do it. Who pays the price, Mr. Speaker? In this instance, it's the employees, support networks and the children that utilize the TTC.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot begin to tell this House enough, how disappointed and dismayed I am over the actions of the Minister and this government on the issue of the relocation of the TTC. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Relocation Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Ramsay .

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Relocation Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Cabinet should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, and I will be asking the government today to finally stand up and admit that this decision was based solely on political motives, and to put an immediate stop to the transfer of this vital piece of service and programming here in Yellowknife, out of the capital city. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Relocation Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 371

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Hiring Practices Of Diamond Mines

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 372

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to raise more public awareness, and the government's awareness, on some of the hiring practices of the three diamond mines operating in the Akaitcho Territory: BHP, Diavik and De Beers.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to say that there has been a rise in local aboriginal employment levels in my constituency, but, unfortunately, there are still many northerners that are not being considered for employment in the mines, because of age, low education levels, or past criminal records.

Mr. Speaker, I can understand the reasons to not hire because of age or educational levels, but to not hire someone who is qualified based solely on their past criminal records should have some limitations.

For example, I have constituents who were employed in the mining industry for extended periods of time; three to four years, Mr. Speaker. They have not missed work, were never late, and were considered good, reliable workers, only to be informed that they can no longer be employed because the company managed to dig up some old criminal records. I say "old," because some of these records are dating back 10, 15, even 20 years, Mr. Speaker.

Many infractions are not even related to criminal actively one might find in a mine, such as theft, forgery or fraud. The mines are directing these persons to apply for pardons from the federal government, to have their criminal records cleared, and then they will be reconsidered for employment, with no guarantees.

Mr. Speaker, the process of applying and receiving, or not receiving, a federal pardon on long past criminal records in order to clear one's name, takes 18 to 24 months at best, with no guarantees of having their slates wiped clean. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to see some other mechanisms, like an independent body, supported by this government, to review these and other personnel issues, and to ensure people who are being laid off or let go for reasons beyond their comprehension have been treated in a fair and equitable manner; a body that will monitor and oversee that the socioeconomic agreements that we have with the mining industries are actually being adhered to and strengthened to provide northerners, all northerners, Mr.

Speaker, from the Delta to the South Slave, with the confidence that they are on the top of the list for the potential employment opportunities in the mines, before the companies look south. Sadly, Mr. Speaker, this is not the case today. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Hiring Practices Of Diamond Mines

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 372

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Restrictions On Caribou Harvesting

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 372

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Mr. Speaker, today I speak to the question that was raised this week by my colleague from the Sahtu regarding the numbers associated with the decline of the caribou herds.

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to speak specifically about the results of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources survey, but I will address the issue around expecting restrictions that are to be imposed next year on these herds, and the need to involve the Tlicho.

Mr. Speaker, although the Tlicho chiefs think that the numbers in the survey are reasonable, they strongly disagree with the department putting any restriction or birth terms of reference that will impose on any action against the aboriginal harvesters. I am sure the sentiment is echoed among all the Dene, the Metis, the Inuvialuit, and subsistence harvesters in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, although it is understood that the caribou declines are due to natural population cycles, the department is saying that they will be meeting with the co-management boards for the Inuvialuit, Gwich'in and the Sahtu areas to discuss what implications there are for harvesters. However, the Tlicho has not been drawn into this process.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources has confirmed that his department is committed to working with the co-management boards, and traditional knowledge and resources, getting the numbers of these caribou herds, even though the process will calculate the caribou population is in decline, and using the satellite collars to get the information as correct as possible. The Tlicho leaders are insisting on the recount, and they want to be involved as part of this process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Restrictions On Caribou Harvesting

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 372

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 372

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I wish to discuss an issue that Nahendeh is currently going through. That is the Liard ferry dispute on the Liard River crossing at Fort Simpson. I would like to take this time to thank all the residents and businesses that have taken the time to express their concerns and complaints with me in writing. I recognize that this is a tense and emotionally charged time, and we all want the ferry dispute resolved as soon as possible.

Throughout the past 10 days, I have addressed the Nahendeh concerns about the ferry situation with our government and the respective Ministers. I have also researched similar situations in other regions and provinces. Although every situation is different, in general, a negotiated solution is the best solution, one that does not involve government intervention. Our government is taking an arm's length approach. This is a decision that is not easily understood by the residents of Nahendeh. I also regret that the new mediator has not yet had an opportunity to meet with both parties.

In the meantime, I continue to press with our respective Ministers, and to appeal to the Canadian industrial board, the decision that the ferry is not an essential service.

In our small and remote communities, transportation links such as the ferry are very essential. The situation is affecting all of the residents of Fort Simpson; the workers

and employers are struggling with all aspects financially, personally and socially. Some people had to cross the picket lines, even though they are in support of the workers. These decisions cause tension and are polarizing the community.

Once again, the best solution in this very difficult time is a negotiated solution. We must be supportive, and yet patient. We must also ensure that the safety of all is important and foremost in our...

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Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Menicoche , your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Menicoche .

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Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and colleagues. I will just conclude and state that safety is considered foremost in our minds as we deal with this especially tense time. Thank you very much.

---Applause

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Locked Out Liard Ferry Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Helping The Youth Of Our Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, Dennis Waitley once said, "The greatest gifts you can give your children are the roots of responsibility and the wings of independence." Mr. Speaker, the youth are crying out for help, telling us to listen, telling us that we, as adults, are not paying attention to them. We are still hoping that the youth issues will go away and we will continue on with life, and that it is their problem and blame it on them. We, as parents, who elect officials, have a huge responsibility to guide our youth into independence. Why is it that only when the youth get media attention for crimes committed, vandalism, or take

part in any anti-social behaviour, we begin to discuss youth issues? Yet, I read in newspapers that our youth in larger centres are entering into national and international events and sports that youth in the smaller communities can only dream of unless we can bring back the test program that was once truly successful in Inuvik in the 1960s that combined the schools in after-school activities.

Mr. Speaker, we have a huge population of youth in the North. Mr. Speaker, in the Sahtu region, we have a high percentage of youth in our communities. We, as leaders and members in positions of authority, have to provide basic tools and skills to give our youth the responsibilities for their choices in life. Mr. Speaker, research shows us that there are far-reaching negative effects of leaving children and teens unsupervised after school, and that children exposed to inadequate care are more susceptible to peer pressure and negative influence than those who receive structured and supervised care.

It is obvious that there is a need for youth after-school programs in all of our communities in the Northwest Territories. However, the need is more apparent in smaller communities because of lack of facilities, resources and NGOs involved in providing after-school extracurricular programming.

Mr. Speaker, it shocks me to hear that this government is considering building a brand-new building along some nice walking trails for WCB. Mr. Speaker, how can this take place? The needs of our residents will be better met by providing adequate facilities and resources for after-school programs. In closing, Mr. Speaker, I urge this government to take a serious look at where its priorities lie and, more importantly, where they should be. We must provide opportunities for those children that are in desperate need of our attention. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Helping The Youth Of Our Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 373

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We now have even more proof that the old considered plan to relocate the Territorial Treatment Centre was purely politically motivated. Shame on this government, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The revelation about the TTC issue given to this House today by Mr. Ramsay is striking proof of nothing short of betrayal by this government; in fact, a series of betrayals, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, and most damning, is that this is a betrayal of the children, their families, the staff of the Territorial Treatment Centre, and many others across the community of Yellowknife. The department, the Minister, indeed the whole Cabinet, betrayed these people's trust in us to continue delivering the program they need so much in a community that has worked so hard for so long to make it available. Mr. Speaker, the evidence is overwhelming. The integrity and sustainability of the care of these kids with deep emotional and behavioural problems would be badly impaired, perhaps irreversibly, by this move.

Secondly, Mr. Speaker, this is a betrayal of a trust we MLAs must have in our Ministers and our Cabinet. We are trying to represent our communities, and our constituents, to the best of our ability every day. How can we do that when Ministers and Cabinet so blatantly and arrogantly disabuse the trust and the process conventions we must rely on?

Thirdly, it is a betrayal of what we stand for in this Legislative Assembly consensus. Over a year ago, through our regular process of consensus, we reached an agreement to fund $2.4 million for a much needed renovation to the TTC here in Yellowknife. Then, behind

our backs, this government deferred that project; decided to relocate it to another community; added another million dollars to the cost; and threw the work of 15 years of community cooperation and dedication out the window. A betrayal all for political reasons. But unlike the reputation of this government at this point, Mr. Speaker, this project can be salvaged. It requires the immediate reversal of the decision to relocate, and the immediate re-instatement of the renovations to the TTC. That is all. It is simple. That must be the next step, and it must be immediate. Enough politicizing the welfare of the children. For the children, Mr. Speaker...

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Braden , your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Braden .

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, enough politicizing the welfare of the children. For the children, Mr. Speaker, let's get back to caring and trustworthiness in this government. Thank you.

---Applause

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Member's statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

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Political Decisions Of Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to speak about decisions that are made by this government. Some decisions, Mr. Speaker, that are made seem to be purely political, and don't make much sense even to a newcomer to this Assembly like myself. Decisions, Mr. Speaker, like putting a pipeline office in a community that...

---Laughter

...putting a pipeline office in Hay River when all the anchor fields and everything are up in the Beaufort-Delta, and without these anchor fields, there would be no need for a pipeline office or a pipeline. Decisions, Mr. Speaker, like closing down Dene K'onia and the remand centre in Hay River, because they built a fancy, new jail here in Yellowknife and they have to justify building it. Decisions, Mr. Speaker, like moving the TTC out of Yellowknife, where most of the support services are needed.

I am all for decentralization, Mr. Speaker, but some services, I agree, need to stay. There are decisions like entering into negotiated contracts, and sole sourcing, while contractors that don't have anybody to lobby on their behalf are left out in the cold. Mr. Speaker, if the government wants to make some good quality business decisions, then move the offices for student financial services to the regions where they best help the people that they serve.

---Applause

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Political Decisions Of Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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Political Decisions Of Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

In the past, Mr. Speaker, I have heard many comments from Members, that are now Ministers, when they were on this side of the House. Now they are in positions where they can affect some of these decisions. So I think now is the time for them to practice what they used to preach. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Political Decisions Of Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Political Decisions Of Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise with my colleagues with a statement in regards to the relocation of the Territorial Treatment Centre. Finally my colleague has put it on the record that this is truly a political issue, so it is finally on the table. The clouds that have been bothering the facts are out, and now it is clear and as plain as day. The garbage has been moved, and the stinky decision has finally revealed itself. This is only a political shuffle, Mr. Speaker, so let's rise above cloudy principles and cloudy ethics. I say to the honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , do the right thing by leaving the TTC here in Yellowknife where it is working just fine.

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, we all know that I support decentralization where it makes sense. I support that when we look at establishing new offices, new plans and whatnot, but not to rip out something that is the heart of the community, that has roots and flourished for many years. This is nothing but political two-stepping by this Minister, and it has to end. It is Cabinet putting Yellowknife against the communities, and Yellowknife against Hay River. Let's not fool ourselves. It is Cabinet that is driving this wedge here today, not the Yellowknife Members, Mr. Speaker. Again, let's not confuse the issue on this relocation.

We know why it is happening, so I call this decision today obtuse. As a reminder to those who are wondering what that means, it truly means it is insensitive. So I call the Minister obtuse to this issue, obtuse to the communities, and I think it is time that we realize what is happening and we stop it. It is not based on principles of sound budget management. It is truly based on the principles of "Let's fill Dene K'onia." Why fool ourselves?

Mr. Speaker, in closing, we all know that the WCB is looking for a home. So while maybe we can offer WCB something, a fortified department, the walls of the former jail, rather than a family oriented centre that helps kids. If you are motivated to fill that centre, fill it with WCB. As I said, they are looking for a new office to work out of; there you go. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 374

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have good people in the gallery and in the community who would like us to do the right thing by the Territorial Treatment Centre, Mr. Speaker, if is not for anything else but for one important reason, that being the well-being of the children who are being treated there, and for the well-being of the very fragile program being delivered at the TTC.

Mr. Speaker, it is the only intensive residential program for children with great emotional and behavioural problems in the NWT. Instead of building on the strength that we have at the TTC, the government has made a very careless reason, Mr. Speaker, to uproot it and move it to another community without any basis or any analysis of merit.

The government has talked to no one, not the people who work there, not the parents of the children who live there, not the educators or support workers, or even pediatricians or child psychiatrists who provide the range of services so vital to the well-being and recovery of these children. No amount of common sense input that has been provided to the Cabinet or the Minister since the announcement made in the paper is doing anything to have the Minister and the government reconsider this decision.

Mr. Speaker, since the announcement of the move, the centre has seen a mass exodus of caring people who work there. This program is in danger of serious jeopardy well before the planned transfer in 2007. In the meantime, it is the children who will be the most adversely affected. I have to ask, what for? There could have been something good created to fill the Dene K'onia facility without destroying something good and fragile that was running at TTC for the children in need, Mr. Speaker.

With some foresight, the government could have done something that could have maintained the TTC program in Yellowknife, and have something to be housed in Hay River, but the government did not. Now the children are the ones who are suffering from the political games being played in this Hall without regard to what really matters.

Children are the people we are supposed to be serving here, Mr. Speaker, and that is a real shame. Mr. Speaker, this is really turning into a big mess, especially in light of the new information that Mr. Ramsay has been able to find. I believe the Minister and the Cabinet have a chance to readdress this, stop and clean this up, Mr. Speaker, and undo the damage. Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Ms. Lee .

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister and the Cabinet have a chance to readdress this and undo the damage we have done to the program. I believe it is still not too late for the government to do something other than pitting one community against another or this Assembly breaking into Yellowknife versus all others in fistfights. I can get right into that, but I would rather not, Mr. Speaker. There are no winners in that game.

There can be a win-win outcome to this, Mr. Speaker. Everyone in the field knows this. There is a need for at least another children's program, if not more. Currently, the TTC is full. There are at least five children on the waiting list. We have enough children in need to keep TTC going, and have another facility in Dene K'onia, Hay River. We can keep TTC here and get up another program in Hay River or, if the government insists on moving it, we could have a program in Hay River but have another, or more modified, or more intense program, set up in Yellowknife.

This does not require more money, because we know that we have children in the South who could be repatriated. We have children on the waiting list which I believe the government...

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Could you conclude your statement, Ms. Lee ?

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to be productive, and I want to give government a choice. I ask the government to do the right thing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Relocation Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 375

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. At this time, I would like to recognize Morris and Marie Lafferty, both my parents are here.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize all the employees and concerned citizens that are in the gallery today with regard to the Territorial Treatment Centre issue, and three constituents I'd like to point out: Pat Doe and Pat and Carmel Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can't see everybody from where I'm sitting, but I understand one of the groups in the gallery is my constituent Laura Johns, and everyone else from Territorial Treatment Centre. I'd like to welcome them to the gallery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 375

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To my knowledge, I don't have a constituent in the gallery, but I will recognize...

---Laughter

...Charmaine McLeod, I believe that's Charles Dent 's constituent, of the affected Territorial Treatment Centre that we've been talking about here earlier today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 376

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize three constituents: Leanne Liske, Anita Metcalfe, and Jim Lynn from Detah. I'd also like to recognize all of the Territorial Treatment Centre people, and the other parents who are here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 376

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to acknowledge and recognize everyone who's visiting us today from the Territorial Treatment Centre, especially my constituents Stephen Norn, and, Mr. Speaker, a very honoured former Member of the NWT Legislative Assembly, Lena Pedersen. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would also like to welcome everyone in the gallery today. If we've missed anybody there, welcome to the gallery. It's always nice to have an audience. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are directed to the Minister of Health and Social Services, and it's with regard to National Foster Family Week, which is being recognized this week. Mr. Speaker. From time to time, children in our society require the temporary care of people who are not necessarily their family or their parents, and we rely on the services of families who will take these children into their home and look after them as if they were their own. Mr.

Speaker, as the Minister knows, I was personally involved in an endeavour which saw me taking children into my home for a couple of years. Most of you probably can't imagine me with 10 children in tow, but that happened a lot, nine of them teenagers. For a couple of years, that was the case.

---Applause

I have to say that I found it to be one of the most challenging but most rewarding things that I've ever done in my variety of careers. But one of the obstacles, as I see it, to encouraging more families to opening their homes, is the remuneration that foster families receive for caring for these children. I understand right now the rate may be in the neighbourhood of $25 a day, but I was wondering if the Minister could confirm the rate for me. Thank you.

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Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the range of foster care rates goes from about $24 a day up to as high as $118 a day, depending on the individual child. Thank you.

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Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then that being the case, I would say that the minimum rate of $24 a day for a child that wouldn't have any special needs or special medial needs has been in place for quite some time now. When's the last time that these rates were reviewed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in point of fact, they're under review as we speak, and I expect to have that document available for my consideration by the end of December to address a number of issues, one of them being the adequacy. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm sure that the people who undertake this labour of love are not in it for the money, however, I think it shows respect to them, and to the care of the children, that people be adequately remunerated. When Mr. Miltenberger looks at the rates being paid for foster parents, will that incorporate recognition of training which may be available to foster parents through different associations? Would that be recognized in the type of child they could take in, and the pay that they would receive for that care? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 376

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the review of the rates will deal mainly with the cost and the per diem rates, but we're also doing, as I indicated in my statement earlier today, a review of practice standards and requirements, and in that component of the review, there will be closer attention

paid to the criteria and the training requirements, as well, of foster parents. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question is, with the tools that we equip foster parents to have in their possession in order to deal with foster children, is there a formal training program at this time in the Northwest Territories that accredits homes to look after children with different types of needs? Is there a formal training and accreditation system in place at this time? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a training program in place. I'd like to commend the work of the Yellowknife Foster Care Association that has a very good training component. We also have an application process where we review the criteria of the folks who are applying to be foster parents. The training that is in place in Yellowknife, we are trying to make accessible to all foster parents across the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Question 160-15(4): National Foster Family Week

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . At this time I'd like to draw the Members' attention to the gallery and the presence of a former Member of the House, Mr. Vince Steen.

---Applause

Also, former Member Lena Pedersen is in the gallery as well today.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger . Mr.

Speaker, I've always known, it was quite obvious to me that the decision to relocate the Territorial Treatment Centre to Hay River from Yellowknife was a politically motivated decision and, you know, now that I do have some proof that that was the case, I want to ask the Minister if the Department of Health and Social Services is dead set on renovating Dene K'onia and moving the Territorial Treatment Centre there, and why haven't they looked at putting another program into Dene K'onia and leaving the Territorial Treatment Centre here in Yellowknife alone? It's a program that works. There's a track record there.

It absolutely works, and what we're doing here is gutting a program and trying to move it to another community. It's completely backwards, Mr. Speaker, and I'd like the Minister to answer that question. Why can't we just establish another program at Dene K'onia? Thank you.

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Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the decision has been made to relocate the Territorial Treatment Centre and we're proceeding with that decision. At the same time, we continue to look at ways we can provide better service in the North for the children and youth in the Northwest Territories. That work is in progress, but, at present, the decision has been made and that's what we're acting on. Thank you.

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Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister, what exactly is he basing this decision on. What information did Cabinet have when they made the decision to relocate this facility from Yellowknife to Hay River? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there were a number of considerations in this decision. The fact that it was cost neutral, there was already money in the capital budget that could be used to upgrade Dene K'onia; the fact that there was a facility; the fact that it's a program that could be delivered outside of Yellowknife and that there was an opportunity to do that. Those are some of the key factors that were involved in that decision. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister says that it would be cost neutral. He hasn't been able to present to me, or other colleagues on this side of the House, the proof that it would be cost neutral and the proof that the services will be available in this other community to allow the clients there the service that they require. I'd like to ask the Minister to provide the proof. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 377

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we can provide, once again, the estimates to do the renovations. The fact is the program and cost of living and the cost of operation in Hay River versus Yellowknife are there and evident and that we

haven't put any more money in the budget for the program costs. From that perspective, we see it as cost neutral. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I've heard from other Members on this side of the House that the Minister has some issues with Hay River and the access to doctors in Hay River. People are actually having to stand outside to wait to get an appointment. What are the children that are going to have to relocate to the new Territorial Treatment Centre in Hay River going to have to do? Are they going to have to stand outside and wait for a doctor's appointment? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are resources there that are required to run this program. If one were to use the Member's rationale, we would be shutting down all the communities where we don't have nurses and every community that suffers a doctor shortage. Were we not going to have services or people there, then very truly we would all move to Yellowknife, and where we have doctor shortages in Yellowknife, we'd all end up living in Edmonton.

We have a commitment to a strong Northwest Territories with a good solid representation of communities in every region, and we're committed to working with all the regions to, in fact, provide service delivery. The reality is, services can be delivered outside of Yellowknife. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 161-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my Member's statement, I would like to focus on a recount of satellite collars for caribou. This is a question to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources . Does the Minister expect that there will be financial implications to the Department of Environment and Natural Resources as a result of management actions taken, and how will they impact future community consultations? Mahsi.

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Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have come out with some initial survey results that indicate that there is a decline in the caribou herds: the Cape Bathurst, the Bluenose East, the Bluenose West, and the Bathurst, though the Bathurst numbers are somewhat dated. We are focusing, at present, in consultation on the three herds in the North: the Cape Bathurst, the Bluenose East and the Bluenose West.

We're still in the consultation phase with the co-management boards, and we are waiting to hear what their recommendation and advice is, and I anticipate that we will have that information available before the end of November, and then we should be in a position to determine what the next steps will be. Thank you.

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Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Bluenose East consists of Tlicho communities where they harvest caribou for part of traditional harvesting. Will the Minister commit to working with Tlicho, involve them to help conduct a recount of these herds and ongoing population studies? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd be happy to give the Member my assurance that we're going to consult with all the aboriginal governments. In the Tlicho region, the board is currently being set up. As soon as the board is set up, they will be fully engaged in this process, and we'll be doing all the required and appropriate consultation. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm just wondering when the department is willing to sit down with the Tlicho and develop a plan to have a recount on these herds. Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it sounds like the Member and I are developing a list of wildlife issues with bison and caribou, but I would, once again, be happy to sit down and make arrangements, as we speak. Officials are going to take notice that we should be consulting fully with the Tlicho Government, as well, as we look at getting recommendations and advice as it pertains to the Bluenose East herd. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just reflecting on the survey that's been done, there is one quote in there where aboriginal harvesters, in particular, may not be agreeable to limitations on their harvesting rights. My final question to the Minister would be, can the Minister tell this Assembly what implications there will be for the aboriginal subsistence harvester as a result of actions and restrictions his department is planning to impose next year? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the process of how we do business is clear, and if it's not clear, let me just restate it for this House, that we are working in cooperation with the co-management boards and the aboriginal governments across the Northwest Territories to deal with this very fundamental issue. They will offer and give recommendations and advice on this issue and will send it to me, as Minister.

Then I will look at all that information, and I will try to make the appropriate determination, based on all the advice and recommendations coming from the various co-management boards and aboriginal governments, as to next steps. This will not be an arbitrary decision of the Government of the Northwest Territories. It will be done in full cooperation and collaboration. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Question 162-15(4): Caribou Herd Management

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in this time and age, we do need some strong, powerful decisions in our vision for the Northwest Territories on the question of Territorial Treatment Centre and other types of facilities that are used as a last resort for young children and youth who have more serious issues to deal with. I want to focus on prevention, the prevention in our communities with regard to the children. I want to ask the Minister, can the Minister of Health and Social Services inform me if his department provides programs that offer healthy alternatives for youth for after-school programs? Thank you.

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Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government, and especially the social envelope Ministers, we are working cooperatively on the issues that my colleague has referenced. Health and Social Services has put a lot of time and effort into active living, working with MACA on get fit, on the no smoking, on the tobacco, on the alcohol, not drinking. The schools are working on looking at the physical education programs that are currently offered.

Municipal and Community Affairs and the Minister responsible for Youth have come up with the Northern Games, and they're looking at ways to work with communities with trails and recreation activities. So there is a tremendous effort across government to try to place an appropriate focus on that area. Thank you.

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Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister then inform me, in terms of these after-school initiatives or funding for these programs, how is it that the school programs or the communities can take advantage of them in terms of having access to them, and having these programs actually set up in the communities so we won't have to send our children away from home to institutions such as Territorial Treatment Centre or any type of facility in the Northwest Territories? Let's keep our children at home. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member raises a good point, and the fundamental issue that we always keep in mind is that the cornerstone of healthy children and strong communities is a strong family and parents that are actively involved in their children's lives. That's a first step. There is funding available for application through the Minister responsible for Youth , in some cases. There's money in MACA. There are school programs with facilities that are usually open in the evenings for extracurricular activities.

Many teachers volunteer; many people in the communities volunteer as coaches and work with the children in the various sports that are there. So there is opportunity in every community, I would suggest, for parents and children and interested volunteers to get involved. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has outlined different areas of funding. Has his department coordinated with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment in terms of having a one-stop shop for the small communities? There are so many different departments to access funding from. Who is doing what is confusing, and sometimes the right hand is not telling the left hand what's happening. So is there anything in his plans in terms of helping the communities receive funding more efficiently? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the social programs Ministers meet on a regular basis, and we've been spending a lot of time looking at the issue of prevention, and getting children and youth and adults active and into active living. We're doing our best to communicate that information to the communities, to the community governments, to the community organizations. If there are areas where we are missing the mark, or there are gaps, then I would be very interested to hear from the Member where those are, so we can take the necessary steps to address those. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think our communities have been mentioning a lot of gaps in this type of program. It's really sad that we have to send our children as a last resort in terms of the issue that we're talking about with the Territorial Treatment Centre, because our communities have been crying for help for a long time. I welcome the Minister's response to this. Can the Minister inform me, and the House, how or when we can have a brainstorming discussion about the gaps to be filled to involve more than just myself or the Members here, involving community members, individuals? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd be happy to put this item on the agenda for our next social programs Ministers' meeting, so we can have a collective discussion about the Member's concerns and see what next steps we take. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Question 163-15(4): Active Living Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are also going to be on the transfer of the Territorial Treatment Centre. My questions are for the Premier . Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that I am quite surprised at the nonchalant and very laid back attitude of the Ministers and Cabinet at the accusation from this side that the transfer was based on nothing else but political reasons. That is a very serious allegation, and political means in this regard not being politically brave or politically strong.

Political, in this context, means Ministers making a decision without merit, without administrative and bureaucratic support, without good information, but making a decision by politicians for no other reason except politicians can. I'd like to know from the Premier , is that how the Cabinet runs the government? Do they sit around the Cabinet table going, hey, we're here to make political decisions and we're just going to transfer this? Is that how the Cabinet makes decisions, Mr. Speaker?

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Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think a basic requirement here is that we recognize that we're all politicians. We all make political decisions. That's our business. If we're not in that business, we're in the wrong place. So this decision is a political decision. The decision to put money into completing Highway No. 3 is a political decision. The decision to put money into building a new school in one community over another is a political decision. These are not bureaucratic decisions. These are political decisions that we make and we vote in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, that is absolutely shameful.

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Supplementary To Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

An Hon. Member

Shameful.

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Supplementary To Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

That is absolutely disgusting, Mr. Speaker. That is not what I mean by a political decision. I don't mean because a politician makes a decision that's a political decision. The Premier is not listening to what I'm saying here. I mean, the Members from communities would not want Ministers making a decision about where to build housing politically. That would have to be on need. So I'd like to know, does the Cabinet not look at anything about what's needed, like Inuvik needs a new school because the building fell down? Is that a political decision, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Question 164-15(4): Cabinet Decision Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 380

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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Supplementary To Question