Debates of Feb. 16th, 2006

This is page numbers 1087 - 1118 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Energy Conservation

Design And Energy-efficient Buildings

2006 NWT Outstanding Volunteer Awards Program

Socio-economic Funding From Resource Development

Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

NWT Preparedness For Global Health Risks

Principles Of Consensus Government

Recognition Of Graduates From Community Wellness Program

Mou With Atco For Novel Housing Initiative

Seeking Access Alternatives For Tlicho Communities

Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Need For Rcmp In Sachs Harbour

Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Speaker's Ruling

Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Need For Rcmp In Sachs Harbour

Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Mackenzie Gas Project Socio-economic Funding

Tlicho Winter Road

Speaker's Ruling

Tabled Document 87-15(4): Energy Conservation Action Plan Update, February 8, 2006

Tabled Document 88-15(4): Ngos Getting Short End Of StickTabled Document 89-15(4): Request For Short And Long-term Funding Assistance

Recognition Of Deline As The Birthplace Of Hockey

Recognition Of Deline As The Birthplace Of Hockey

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Recommendation For The Provision Of Additional Information On The Deh Cho Bridge Proposal

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1087

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 70-15(4): Energy Conservation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1087

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Energy Conservation Action Plan we adopted last October has been successful in raising the public's awareness about the importance of conserving energy and has helped individuals, businesses and GNWT departments and agencies put actual energy conservation measures into practice. The action plan enhanced existing conservation programs, introduced new conservation initiatives and identified new technologies to help reduce energy costs. Some of the highlights achieved by the action plan are:

Fourteen additional retrofit projects on public buildings were completed through the enhanced Energy Conservation Program offered by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. We anticipate annual operating savings of $140,000 due to these retrofits. In total, 37 retrofit projects under the program will be completed this year, with expected annual operating savings of over $300,000.

Infrared thermal scanning on 80 government buildings has been completed by the Department of Public Works and Services and we anticipate completing another 400 scans on both government and municipal buildings over the next two years.

New design standards have been developed and implemented by the Department of Public Works and Services to maximize energy efficiency for upcoming government construction projects. These design standards will be incorporated into the revised 2006 Good Building Practice for Northern Facilities publication and will be made available to municipal governments and businesses.

One hundred fifty residential energy efficiency assessments were completed in Fort Smith. The NWT Power Corporation conducts these assessments to inform residents about electricity and answer questions about how electricity is generated, how much electricity is required to run a household and how to use electricity more efficiently. The corporation will soon be starting assessments in Fort Resolution and Lutselk'e.

Funding was increased to the Arctic Energy Alliance to supplement existing incentive programs. For example, homeowners and small businesses may qualify for cash grants if maintenance is completed on their boilers and furnaces. Information as to how to apply for these grants was included with the January 2006 power bills.

At the public meeting held by AOC in November on the rising cost of energy in the NWT, I spoke about the need for NWT residents and businesses to take full advantage of the energy conservation initiatives made available through the action plan and also challenged government departments to step up our conservation efforts. As seen from the highlights identified, NWT residents, businesses and our departments have been successful in rising to this challenge. Mr. Speaker, later today I will be tabling the Energy Conservation Action Plan Update which provides additional information and guidance to help us all reduce our energy consumption.

Mr. Speaker, as we applaud the results achieved by the action plan, we must also recognize our longer-term goal of identifying more stable and reliable energy sources to mitigate rising energy costs and provide all northerners with affordable energy options.

The government will soon be releasing an energy plan discussion paper that will raise the critical policy issues that need to be addressed respecting the development of NWT energy resources and the long-term strategic direction and actions the NWT must take to ensure affordable and sustainable energy solutions for the benefit of all northerners.

Mr. Speaker, despite a drop in oil prices, energy prices remain high. In 2006, we must continue to support conservation and efficiency measures as the most effective means of coping with these high costs. This will require continued commitment by this Legislative Assembly and all northerners to ensure we build on the momentum achieved to date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 70-15(4): Energy Conservation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1087

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 71-15(4): Design And Energy-efficient Buildings

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1087

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently high fuel costs and concerns about global warming have put extra emphasis on energy conservation. In response to these concerns, the government has adopted the Energy Conservation Action

Plan and, in support of the plan, the Department of Public Works and Services is designing buildings that are more energy efficient.

Two good examples are the designs of the new school in Tulita and the renovated school in Gameti. They follow standards from the federal Commercial Building Incentive Program, CBIP, to minimize fuel and power consumption over the life of the buildings. CBIP helps offset the extra cost of designing energy-efficient buildings. This Natural Resources Canada program provides design assistance and funding of up to $60,000 for eligible organizations, based on building energy savings.

The application of CBIP criteria and the use of further resources available through Indian and Northern Affairs Canada programs, like the Aboriginal and Northern Community Action Program, increases the GNWT's efforts on energy efficiency and climate change management. Any additional project design or construction costs are more than offset by savings achieved through immediate reduction of fuel and power consumption and lower long-term operating costs for our facilities.

Mr. Speaker, it is now a requirement for all new or renovated GNWT buildings to be designed to obtain CBIP certification. This requirement has been included in the 2006 edition of Good Building Practice for Northern Facilities. At this time, CBIP projects being designed include:

• the new school in Ndilo;

• the Northwest Territories law courts facility in Yellowknife;

• the schools replacement project in Inuvik;

• the children's treatment centre in Hay River; and

• the new wildlife laboratory and forestry centre in Yellowknife.

Public Works and Services and the GNWT as a whole have a firm commitment to reducing energy costs in buildings for the benefit of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 71-15(4): Design And Energy-efficient Buildings

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1088

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod.

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Minister's Statement 72-15(4): 2006 NWT Outstanding Volunteer Awards Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1088

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today about the NWT Outstanding Volunteer Awards Program. Nominations for this program are currently being accepted.

The NWT Outstanding Volunteer Awards Program was developed in 1991 as a way to celebrate outstanding volunteers in the Northwest Territories and to highlight the importance of volunteerism to residents of the Northwest Territories. This year, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is pleased to be working in partnership with Volunteer NWT on the delivery of the program.

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs has launched this year's nomination process through advertisements, the distribution of brochures and posters, and notices on the department's web site. Nomination materials can also be found in community government offices, recreation offices and all schools in the Northwest Territories.

There are four categories of Outstanding Volunteer Awards. The categories are: individual, elder, youth and group. As in prior years, we expect to receive nominations from all regions of the Northwest Territories.

Each year, the award winners and all nominees are recognized during an award ceremony that takes place during National Volunteer Week. This year, National Volunteer Week is April 23rd to April 29th. Planning details of the award ceremony are underway and I look forward to providing Members with additional information on the ceremony once all details are finalized.

Mr. Speaker, volunteers are an incredibly important part of our life in our communities. The Volunteer Award Program is one way that the Government of the Northwest Territories can recognize the contributions volunteers make everyday. It is important to bring recognition to the award winners, and all nominees, and to the thousands of residents in the Northwest Territories that give freely of their time and energy with no expectation of thanks.

I encourage all Members of the Legislative Assembly to recognize and thank the volunteers in their communities and to nominate an outstanding volunteer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 72-15(4): 2006 NWT Outstanding Volunteer Awards Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1088

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Ministers' statements. Before I go on to the next order on the Order Paper, I would like to draw your attention to a very distinguished looking group in the gallery today. They are a group of grads from the community wellness workers course. I would like to welcome Dowey Lafferty from Lutselk'e,

---Applause

Mary Rose Drybone from Colville Lake,

---Applause

Sarah Polquin from Aklavik,

---Applause

Teresa McDougall from Yellowknife,

---Applause

Rick Alexander from Yellowknife,

---Applause

Therese Simon from Fort Resolution,

---Applause

Bernice Hardisty from Fort Liard,

---Applause

Edna Alexie from Fort McPherson,

---Applause

Una Simon from Fort Smith.

---Applause

Donald Yukon from Deline,

---Applause

Rosemary Elemie from Deline.

---Applause

With them is Vicki Jacob from Keyano College. She's the instructor from Fort McMurray.

---Applause

Welcome all of you to the House. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Socio-economic Funding From Resource Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1089

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I am going to again address the fact that it is my belief that the Government of the Northwest Territories has let down the majority of its residents and settled on socio-economic impact funding that isn't flowing through the GNWT and won't even start to address our needs as we move forward. You know, $500,000 sounds like a great sum of money, but when you spread the funding over 10 years and then split it amongst 22 communities, it doesn't add up to much, Mr. Speaker.

It's anyone's best guess on what the administrative cost would be to administer this money; quite possibly as high as 20 percent. What money does get down to the communities will certainly be well used and much needed.

I want to state quite clearly today that I believe, as a government, we could have done, and should have done, much better for our residents. The 22 communities deserve the funding, every bit of it, the entire $500 million, Mr. Speaker. I don't believe Yellowknife, Fort Smith and Hay River should get a cut from the $500 million. What I do believe, and have evidence of, is that the Government of the Northwest Territories has failed 70 percent of our population: three out of four of the major population centres in this territory, by not standing up for them, or themselves, for that matter, and demanding more.

The major tax-based centres deserve and should receive funding from Ottawa, as well. This is on top of the $500 million, Mr. Speaker. I speak from experience, Mr. Speaker. Yellowknife is a much different community today than it was 15 years ago. Resource development and the negative social impacts have hit Yellowknife hard. The saying "more money, more problems" is quite an accurate description. Drugs, crime, addiction and unhealthy lifestyles are very prominent in our communities.

As we embark on the exciting prospects of mega resource development here in the Northwest Territories, our government must be willing to fight for each and every one of its residents, whether they live in Tulita, Fort Simpson, Hay River or Yellowknife. We will all be hit by socio-economic impacts. How is the government going to protect us? What is the government going to do to pay the social costs in every one of our communities? They don't have an answer for this, Mr. Speaker, and, for that reason, they have, thus far, failed us.

Remember, gentlemen, you are a public government. We are a public government and it's time to start acting like one, Mr. Speaker. At the appropriate time, I will have questions for the Premier . Thank you.

---Applause

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Socio-economic Funding From Resource Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1089

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1089

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to wade in on the Novel housing subject. I spoke just briefly during consideration of the NWT Housing Corporation budget deliberations. Mr. Speaker, this is what is my perspective, from what I have seen and heard.

As I see it, Imperial Oil and their partners want to build a pipeline. During the construction of that pipeline, they need temporary workforce housing. Traditional practices would see them bring that housing in and take that housing out. The Northwest Territories had the housing shortage. Maybe we could save the pipeline proponents from having to remove their housing.

ATCO Structures is an internationally recognized supplier of workforce housing. ATCO Structures has the capacity to produce all of the workforce housing required for the Mackenzie gas project. ATCO develops and designs a type of workforce housing that can be converted to a conventional home. ATCO presents their design and signs an MOU with NWT Housing Corporation. The Housing Corporation sees a potential use of 700 of the 1,400 housing units and looks for existing and potential housing programs for delivery.

The Housing Corporation wants northern value added through training opportunities, participation of northern businesses involved in manufacturing, assembly, transportation and, ultimately, site development and conversion. ATCO is amenable to this approach and the negotiations continue.

Imperial Oil is looking for the best value for their needs and is willing to be convinced of the merits of using a convertible housing model versus conventional workforce housing. By participating, Imperial Oil could fulfil part of its commitment to socio-economic benefits for the North. The Housing Corporation could have access to much-needed housing for northerners. Considerable economy could be created by the conversion of these units to homes in various communities after the pipeline construction.

Fast forward to this week. ATCO Structures has taken a bit of a beating from some Members of this Legislature and ATCO is probably wondering why, since they are willing to recognize the need for significant northern participation. Imperial Oil is probably saying with our permits and agreements in hand, we don't need the permission of the territorial government to proceed with workforce housing in our best interest and in a way that we like.

If the Mackenzie gas project proceeds, there is going to be a demand for workforce housing for further exploration and construction for feeder projects for years to come. Do we have capacity for that in the North? Yes. Hay River already has worksite accommodation/office units being built as we speak. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. So Hay River already has manufacturing in place for workplace office and accommodation. Could they continue to meet the ongoing demand? Probably they could. Is there a northern company that has stand-alone capacity today to produce enough units to meet the needs of the construction of the pipeline? No. Would it make good business sense for someone to build that kind of capacity if this level of demand is not sustainable? Probably not.

Mr. Speaker, Imperial Oil needs workforce housing. The Northwest Territories needs housing. ATCO Structures has well over 50 years of experience in manufacturing and has invested in a concept to match these needs together. Am I a paid lobbyist for ATCO Structures? No. Do I see a potential and know a potentially good deal when I see one? Yes, I do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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NWT Preparedness For Global Health Risks

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, when I speak to the elders in my communities, they often talk about the sicknesses and epidemics of the past taking the lives of many loved ones. Fortunately, today our youth have never had to experience these types of losses and we, as a government, must do whatever we can to keep it that way. Avian influenza, or bird flu, is a virus primarily transferred by birds. There are many different types. Influenza H5N1 is a type of avian influenza that is of world-wide concern and is carefully monitored. Last fall in the Fraser Valley region of B.C. they experienced bird flu infections. This brought the once-distant flu pandemic concerns very close to home in Nahendeh.

Last session, the new chief of Jean Marie River asked me to request what the government will do in case of a severe outbreak. Does our government have an emergency response plan to a possible outbreak in the Northwest Territories? According to my research, it is transferable among wild birds, although most of the human infections were from domesticated birds. In the Nahendeh, many residents actively harvest traditionally and live off the land eating wild birds, like everybody else throughout the North. Many residents feel this infection may be transferable from wild birds.

The GNWT must inform the general public through a communication campaign on the avian flu virus. This government must be proactive in the intergovernmental approach involving the federal, territorial, local, and First Nation governments in an emergency response plan. Other jurisdictions in Canada have implemented a strategy and have started to store the necessary medication and vaccinations, and so should we. Furthermore, this virus is constantly changing and the response plans and vaccinations must also be evaluated periodically.

It seems like every day we hear on the evening news that there was another outbreak of this virus on humans. Some are close to home, some are quite far away, but with modern transportation and visitors from all over the world in the Northwest Territories, we are not isolated, we are not alone, and we must prepare. Mahsi.

---Applause

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NWT Preparedness For Global Health Risks

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Principles Of Consensus Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The government has taken some very, very bold and aggressive steps in the last few months at least, Mr. Speaker. Some of them, though, have not met with the expectations or the conventions or the rules that this Assembly is based on. The most significant one being consensus. The ones that come to mind, Mr. Speaker, would be the snap, sudden, secret decision to relocate the Territorial Treatment Centre to Hay River; the decision by the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment to dispense with the NWT's participation in the National Diamond Strategy and disband the diamond unit. Mr.

Speaker, the most significant one happened late last year with the so-called "letter of comfort" when our Minister of Finance and our Premier decided to, in effect, block the NWT out of a significant revenue stream based on the development of the gas reserves.

Mr. Speaker, in here, with the Novel housing program and the project with ATCO, we have yet another situation here where things are going on without the knowledge, consultation or, in fact, the consent of this side of the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, we found out that the government has signed a memorandum of agreement with ATCO regarding the use of the Novel manufactured homes. Now, Mr. Speaker, I, too, am an advocate of making the very best opportunity of this great project that lies ahead of us. The challenge that I have, Mr. Speaker, is for the way in which our government is going about this.

When I read in a document that was tabled I believe earlier in this Assembly that we already signed a memorandum of agreement, what is it that we've agreed to? Where are the options? Where is the feasibility? Where is the confidence? Where is the transparency? Where is the trust? Where is the consensus, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

---Applause

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Principles Of Consensus Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1090

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Recognition Of Graduates From Community Wellness Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also wanted to congratulate all the community wellness workers that are in our gallery on their successful completion of the certification program that they have all undoubtedly worked diligently and passionately to acquire.

Mr. Speaker, some of the difficulties, both in the workplace and in the communities where they live and work, are not things that people are compelled to talk about, but I think are worthy of mention today. We all recognize the importance of these positions in our small communities, and I want to let it be known that these community wellness workers' positions are 24 hours, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year jobs, and the compensation for these positions is severely underrated and inadequately funded by this government.

Mr. Speaker, a community wellness worker cannot take a holiday in their respective communities because many people seeking assistance often require help or guidance before their issues transpire into something more tragic and the community wellness worker is often, it is often their obligation to take action before this happens.

Mr. Speaker, these are just a couple of reasons why I would like to see some serious reviews done on the compensation levels for these frontline workers; salary levels that are truly reflective of the broad spectrum of wellness issues that these people have to work against every day.

I could go on and on about many of those community wellness issues, but two minutes is surely not enough time. I do have time to say thank you from all the Members in this House and from the residents of the NWT in their job, and they all deserve a pat on the back every day. I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavours. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Recognition Of Graduates From Community Wellness Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Mou With Atco For Novel Housing Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last night I had the chance to read yet one more propaganda put out by this government on Novel housing and, lo and behold, I learned something new that I was not aware of before, and that is that this government, in fact, does have a formal working relationship with ATCO by way of a memorandum of agreement regarding the use of Novel manufactured homes by the MGP. It's in the document that the Minister asked me to look at.

Mr. Speaker, in learning this, the light came on in my head as to why this so-called mere Novel concept, or novel concept, has made it into this year's budget. Now I know why this government talks and acts like the biggest lobbying agent for one company; because, in fact, it has become a life partner with this, through this MOA, Mr. Speaker.

What does this mean? This means that we'll never know if ATCO is in fact the most suitable marriage partner for us in this housing project. Any responsible parent will tell their children to look around, shop around, compare. If you have five hundred million to spend, what is the best deal we can get? Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you I don't think we'll ever know.

This means no other companies need to apply since one company, without any apparent competitive process, has been given the leg up and stands to become the biggest beneficiary of this project that's now worth not $297 million as I thought it was previously, but it is now worth about $500 million. Two hundred and thirty-four million from the oil producers for the cost of workforce housing, forty million dollars plus for the premium for any extra cost of making them convertible, two hundred and forty million plus from the federal government, GNWT and private sector to build the lots and set up and buy the units.

The report also states, Mr. Speaker, that the government does not know if this is the only company that can do it, but the government's not going to do their due diligence to find out. We have no info here as to whether there is the buy-in from the people who would be asked to live in these used trailers. There is no information as to where regional and community governments have bought in. There is, in fact, no information as to whether Imperial Oil is interested in this marriage because they're too busy going through the regulatory process.

So, Mr. Speaker, I have to accept that there has been a marriage, but I need to still see that...

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Mou With Atco For Novel Housing Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Mou With Atco For Novel Housing Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you.

---Applause

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Mou With Atco For Novel Housing Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Seeking Access Alternatives For Tlicho Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1091

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Mr. Speaker, today I'm going to speak about the highway that leads to our community. In the Northwest Territories, we have a big population and everyone has roads leading to them. There's few isolated communities that don't have highways to their community. Some of these isolated communities face difficulties such as high prices, high price of oil and everything, like from groceries and to family visiting each other. Mr. Speaker, we know we all go through difficulties sometimes. We know what's happening with the global warming that's happening in the Northwest Territories.

When you compare it from years ago, the ice road used to be open for many months. But nowadays it's not like that.

Mr. Speaker, last year when they were hauling the oil to our community, that didn't happen because the ice road was not open because of the ice conditions. So the three communities suffered because of that. So we do have concerns regarding that.

The last 14th Assembly, the last MLA spoke on this issue. He stood here and he spoke to you about those concerns. He really tried to talk about this issue. So, Mr. Speaker,

when you look at this, this government, the 15th Assembly, they should revisit this issue again because of the global warming that's happening and we can't depend on the ice roads anymore. We have to seriously think about having highways to our communities. We can't do without these communities having roads. We should seriously take a look at this for the Tlicho region. This is one of the concerns that was addressed to me many times by my members in my communities. Thank you.

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Seeking Access Alternatives For Tlicho Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu . Mr. Yakeleya .

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to start off with the saying, "and they lived happily ever after." I want to talk about the Novel manufactured homes here.

---Laughter

I want to emphasize the point to live, Mr. Speaker. Knowing that the high core needs in the communities, Fort McPherson has 33 percent, Paulatuk has 35 percent, Colville Lake has an astonishing number of 75 percent of core need of homes, Wrigley 50 percent, Ndilo 40 percent. Taking out the equation of the Yellowknife and Hay River market in homes, the extent of the problem in our communities, Mr. Speaker, is very, very clear. If anybody has a vision and has the commitment and dedication to put housing in, I think it's up to all the Members in the House here to put suitable and affordable homes in our communities.

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, where will we find such an opportunity like this?

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

An Hon. Member

Not used trailers.

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Housing Opportunities Arising From The Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Where will we see them come into our communities as large-scale developments? Where will we see workplaces and workforces in our regions specifically dedicated to the housing sector? Where will we see where we can deal with the chronic situation of housing issues? Mr. Speaker, I understand in 2005-2014 that we're going to need new homes; 1,600 new homes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is an innovative idea that's supported by my region. Used trailers, they call them. I call them affordable homes that we can build up with our own people. We have ingenuity that we can use in our region, that we could build this in our region. You know? We need these homes.

There's TB, there's sickness, overcrowding. You go into our communities and you'll see these. We have to figure out how we're going to do them. To stick build they say it's going to cost us more. There's opportunities like this, as businesspeople and communities, expect the deal when the iron's hot here.

The families need it, the communities need it. So we need it in our region and I'll be darned if we're pushing this through. I'm not a paid lobbyist, but I speak for my people and my people want these homes. They want the development, they want the training. You know, this is a once in a lifetime. So this is a good opportunity and I applaud the government and I applaud the people who put the deal first. Thank you very much.

---Applause

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Need For Rcmp In Sachs Harbour

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was advised yesterday about an incident in Sachs Harbour involving the dangerous use of a firearm. This incident was confirmed later by my constituent assistant. The RCMP in Inuvik was notified and immediately chartered an aircraft to Sachs Harbour that afternoon. Thank God the weather cooperated for the RCMP to charter to the community. They were able to apprehend the suspect and transport the suspect to Inuvik. I would like to report there was no immediate injury to the victim and the suspect involved. A couple of RCMP members have remained in Sachs Harbour to conduct an investigation.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that it will come as no surprise to you again that the number one concern of the residents of Sachs Harbour has been the RCMP presence in the community. With this recent incident it is more evident that the RCMP should provide their presence to protect the people in Sachs Harbour.

In a previous Minister's statement, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice advised this Assembly that he will address the concern. Mr. Speaker, the residents of Sachs Harbour are entitled to the same level of public protection as all the residents of Canada. When will the Department of Justice provide the necessary personnel in Sachs Harbour? When, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

---Applause

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Need For Rcmp In Sachs Harbour

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1092

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I want to speak on the so-called "letter of comfort," or, as some people have referred to it as, the "letter of surrender." The only certainty I know, Mr. Speaker, is that Imperial Oil and the other gas producers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier has said time and time again this is just a letter and there's nothing to worry about. Well, the same thing was said about the gun registry, Mr. Speaker. It's just going to cost a couple million dollars; there's nothing to worry about. The same thing was said about the sponsorship scandal just a couple years ago with the Liberals; nothing to worry about, just a couple Liberals out of control. I think, Mr. Speaker, whenever a politician utters the words "nothing to worry about," Canadians start to get nervous.

One thing is safe to say, Mr. Speaker, is that the Premier and myself truly do disagree on the implications...

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Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Handley , you're rising on a point of order. What is your point of order?

Point Of Order

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, thank you, Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order. The Member is imputing false or hidden motives, talking about whenever a politician says something that you have to be careful how you interpret it. There are no false motives on my part, Mr. Speaker. So Mr. Speaker, under

section 23(i), I believe, there is a point of order. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Mr. Handley has risen on a point of order. I'm going to allow some debate on this one, on the point of order. To the point of order. Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I didn't say that the Premier did something ill. I'm making a point of saying there's nothing to worry about. So I'm speaking about the letter and the implications that the letter will have over the long term. You never know what will happen over the long term and so nothing to worry about, and we have to worry about it. It is all in the context of who knows where we're going with this. Nothing was directly pointed to the Premier , so I personally believe the Premier misunderstood the point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . To the point of order. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I take particular offence at this in the Member saying that whenever a Member, a politician, makes a statement, you have to wonder about it and then drawing an inference to the Gomery situation, which is criminal wrongdoing. Mr. Speaker, I want to say I highly resent that and that is very clearly an effort to impute some false or hidden motive on my part for something that's criminal, in fact. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . To the point of order. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Hawkins says that he doesn't impute any motive. Why is the Premier picking this up? Well, it's because he's talking about the letter of comfort. I believe that the Premier and the Finance Minister , one of them signed the letter of comfort and he has in the context, in setting up the context of this, he has made reference to politicians who say don't worry about it and he's put it in the context of the sponsorship scandal. Those were his words. He didn't say the Gomery inquiry.

He said the sponsorship scandal, which to me says that when someone is defending something they've done by saying, you know, it's good or don't worry about it, that inherently there must be some scandal attached to it. In a broader context, that's how I would perceive that he's putting this on the same footing. Thank you.

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . To the point of order. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to say something about this and just state my observation in this regard. I don't really have a position on either side and I await to hear your decision regarding this debate, but I really think how we conduct ourselves and the decisions in this regard should reflect the balance between the right of Members to speak and how much room you have to speak. We may not like what we hear necessarily and I don't know exactly what was said, so I can't really comment on that, but I would ask you to look at the overall role. Thank you.

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . To the point of order. The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to the point of order, we, in this Assembly, have a certain amount of latitude, for sure, in how we represent our constituents in the case or the issues we raise in this House. But, Mr. Speaker, when the reference is drawn in such a clear line and the people of the Territories or those listening get to see just a piece of what we do here in this House and all they'll hear is the fact the Premier and myself, the Finance Minister , signed a letter of comfort, and then drawing a direct relationship with the sponsorship scandal is not truly representative of what the situation is there.

So, Mr. Speaker, though we may have latitude in how we reference the issues to the people of the Territories, we also have a responsibility not to be setting and saying things that would have people out there believing that we've broken some rule or broken the law in how we carry on our business. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . To the point of order. Members, I am going to take this matter under advisement and return with my ruling on the point of order at a later date. Mr. Hawkins , you may continue with your statement, but I will caution you to steer clear of any controversial issues. Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I respectfully thank you and the Members for their input on that matter.

Mr. Speaker, the final thing that I want to say on this matter is the implications of this letter and what it will have down the road. The fact is that we don't know what's happening, and the only time we're going to truly understand the implications of this letter is when someone such as a high-priced lawyer, maybe from Calgary, shows up with this letter of comfort and only then will we truly understand the consequences of what we sign. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1093

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Members' statements. Reports of standing and special committees. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1093

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It's my pleasure to rise two days in a row to introduce a constituent and my niece Ms. Marina Menicoche, up there in the gallery.

---Applause

As well, there are two Pages from Fort Simpson that gave us some really good work this week. I'd like to recognize them. Mr. Teyan Menicoche, who is Marina's son, and Alex Elleze. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1094

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1094

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would also like to recognize and thank the Pages from Hay River South that helped us in the Chamber this week. They are Tanya Maher and Brieanne Glaicar and they both did a great job and it was a pleasure to have them here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1094

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I thought I would rest this topic of the novel idea of the Novel housing, but I just need to get this chance to explain for those who didn't have the benefit of my reply to the budget address that my questions about Novel housing are never about providing social housing for the people. This is about are we doing the right thing in the way we spend our public money, and are we doing the best deal we can get for the people to make sure that the home they get are the ones that they can live in and that it's going to last and that we can deliver.

So I'd like to ask the Minister of Finance , Mr. Speaker, Minister of Finance Floyd Roland ...The report states, Mr. Speaker, that -- I can't remember exactly what page -- but the government is aware that ATCO company is not the only one who could provide this housing. I believe in a good deal. I want to make sure that this government got the best deal in doing this. So I want to know what due diligence they did before he decided to marry the ATCO Novel idea. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of the relationship with ATCO Structures and ourselves, as laid out by Mrs. Groenewegen -- she's laid it out fairly close to how things have unfolded -- the issue, Mr. Speaker, I think more reflects around is it wise for the Government of the Northwest Territories to try and seize an opportunity where we can get houses for a value that is something that can be afforded in our smaller communities. Is the issue of our relationship with ATCO a concern when they've approached us with the concept was did they have a patent on that?

Could they see the issue of the convertible workforce housing into homes at an affordable price? It would be wise of us to continue to look at that avenue and try to ensure that maybe we can take advantage of this mega project that's going to happen in our backyards.

So, Mr. Speaker, I think on the part of our government working with the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, working with the past federal Minister of Housing , and ATCO, as well as our own shops, try to take advantage of this in the best way possible. What's wrong with trying to put more houses in communities that need homes? Thank you.

---Applause

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Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister once again avoided the essential question. The issue here is not whether or not we want 1,400 homes. That is not the issue. The issue is whether or not we are being seduced by the idea and being blinded and not doing our due diligence that we need to do with public money. We're talking about spending $500 million. The Minister states in the report that they know that ATCO is not the only one. So I want to know when or did he ever, did this government ever look at any companies? Was there any competitive process?

Did they ever ask the top three companies of the world could they ever come up with an idea of converting workforce housing? It's a pretty simple and reasonable question, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let's get the numbers right here. Ms. Lee is once again coming up with her efforts in mathematics and coming up with now a $500 million project. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories, in the budget that's before the House, has not identified any money for the Novel housing concept. We are working on it. We have brought it to the attention of the Members to try to do this. What we're looking for is an opportunity to put housing in the Northwest Territories at an affordable price for the people of the Northwest Territories. So, Mr.

Speaker, when it comes to our dealings with the company and did we go out with an RFP or a tender to say all companies of the world, please provide a concept that can take workforce housing and put it into homes here in the Northwest Territories, no, we didn't. We were looking at the opportunity. We were approached by a company that has a patent or has applied for a patent on this type of convertible workforce housing.

Based on that information and the opportunity before us, why wouldn't we sit down and talk to them and say let's look at what we can do together to ensure there's housing for people in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1094

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, ATCO knows how to market and do their work and I wish ATCO would do our job here, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am using my math. By looking at page 23 of the document the Minister asked me to read, which I read last night, it says $90 million from Canada CMHC, $116 to $120 million...$9 million from the GNWT, $10 million from ATCO, $235 million from MGP, $60 to $70 million private. So that works out to 445 plus 60 and, in my simple math, that's over $500 million and for that this government needs to do due diligence, which I have not seen at all. So I want to ask, who do you call?

Make a phone call. Make three phone calls. For $500 million, who could give the best deal? People of the North deserve that opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can't go to any company and say provide housing and we'll have the Mackenzie gas project paid $235 million for us. Ultimately, Mr. Speaker, what we're hoping to do is take advantage. Just to make it clear for the Member and her simple math, what we're hoping to do is have the Mackenzie gas project purchase a different type of workforce housing. Typically, they would spend $235 million -- that's our estimates -- on what it would cost for typical workforce housing.

What we want to do is have them convertible at the front end so that we can, at a minimum cost, change them over, put them in communities, have them up for sale for citizens in the Northwest Territories, as well as replace some of our aging social housing. So the GNWT's portion at the tail end of this will be in the $116 million to $129 million bracket, and that's not just for homes, that's for lots, and lot development, and conversion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final, short supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister owes an answer to the people of the North, and the people who are going to live in these trailers, and the taxpayers who are going to put in hundreds of millions of dollars, and that's a simple question and he's avoiding the question. Before he signed a memorandum of agreement with one company, I want to know who has he called. What did he do to look to see who is going to give us the best deal before he goes and tells Imperial this is what we want, which the government said that he did, in his response to my questions. So, Minister, it's a simple question. Has he called, or would he call, and why not if he doesn't want to call? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Number one, I did not sign the MOU. It is a document that we're honouring. A decision was brought forward, we accepted that. But, Mr. Speaker, when we want to talk about the best value, did we go out there and see if somebody could provide affordable housing in the Northwest Territories, will we go out and do it now? No, we will not go out and do it now. We're into a situation that timelines don't provide for that. But ultimately, Mr. Speaker, let's do the quick math on this.

Fourteen hundred units that could potentially be used in the Northwest Territories and you take the math that she's going to, potentially we're trying to get houses in the Northwest Territories for under $120,000 apiece.

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

An Hon. Member

That's a good deal.

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

So, Mr. Speaker, our math shows that the typical housing that we build in the Northwest Territories right now, goes up to $160,000 plus. If we can put homes in the Northwest Territories for less than $120,000, what is wrong with that concept? Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

An Hon. Member

Excellent.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 412-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Oral questions, the honourable Member from Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I am quite proud to admit this afternoon that I am a paid lobbyist. I'm paid by the taxpayers of the Northwest Territories...

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Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

An Hon. Member

Yeah.

---Applause

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Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Bill Braden

Great Slave

...in my riding to hold this government to account and I'm going to continue to do that.

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Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

An Hon. Member

We work for the taxpayers.

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Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1095

Bill Braden

Great Slave

My colleagues from the smaller communities affected by housing crisis are absolutely right that these are desperately needed units, and I am going to do whatever I can to make sure that affordable, decent, sustainable housing is made available to everybody in the NWT.

---Applause

But I am not going to accept, Mr. Speaker, that the first deal that comes along is going to be the right one, and that is the accountability that I want to ask the Minister of Finance about this afternoon. Mr. Speaker, the document here, the government's response to the pre-budget consultations, has a considerable

chapter in here on the Novel deal as we know it. It has talked about the memorandum of agreement that we have signed now with ATCO and the MGP on this. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to find out, what does this agreement commit the Government of the Northwest Territories to? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the memorandum of understanding, let's be clear, and it's written down there, the memorandum of understanding is between ourselves and ATCO. Mackenzie gas project hasn't signed this agreement. We're in a situation where they've approached us, they have a patent pending on this and if we're going to take that and work with them through the Housing Corporation and say yes it sounds like a good idea, and then take that and shop it around to three other international companies, wouldn't it be their right to ask if we're going to share this information?

We want to keep it confidential because we think we have a potential market. Doesn't that make sense? It's the thing to do, Mr. Speaker, to try and ensure that we meet what's expected of us: accountability and providing services to the people of the Northwest Territories. So, no, Mr. Speaker, there is no dollar attachment; there is no commitment to buy units. Our commitment through this agreement is to work on a concept that maybe can be put forward and if it's accepted by the Mackenzie gas project, we then can have a deal. Thank you.

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Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the note in the information also suggests...it doesn't suggest, it states that there is urgency attached to this. You know, I'd rather put in front of me a plan that talks about sound business practice and good stewardship on behalf of this Assembly and the taxpayers' dollars that we're talking about putting into place here. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell me what is the urgency about, and what should we be anticipating with this memorandum of agreement, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the memorandum of understanding is one where we commit to work with ATCO Structures and the Housing Corporation in sharing ideas and information to see if this concept will work, and is workable, and meets the requirements for affordable, suitable, energy-efficient housing in the Northwest Territories. The urgency around this, Mr.

Speaker, is when you look at the Mackenzie gas project, and they're going through the hearing stage, the urgency is the fact that as the Mackenzie gas project prepares to ramp up, or offering out contracts to prepare for this, they're starting to make some of their calls. They've got a window. When the decision is finally made, the window for actual bids and so on to be entered into is very short. We've got to work from that date backwards.

The ability for a company to put this many units out to the satisfaction we would have, the work has to be done up front and that's why we've come to this House before any deal has been signed, besides that of basically a confidentiality agreement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Okay, we have a confidentiality agreement. Now we've really boxed ourselves in, Mr. Speaker. Can we not go out and seek other ideas and other options for the $220 million that's on the table here between this government and Canada, and the $70 million that we're speculating private homeowners are going to be putting out there? That's 300 million bucks. Are we not going to be able now to go out and explore other options? This is it? This is the only deal we have, Mr. Speaker, on $300 million?

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Supplementary To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member talked about accountability himself, being elected as a lobbyist for the people of the Northwest Territories. I, as well, was elected by my constituents and then elected by the Members of this House to lobby on their behalf, as well, and I see an opportunity, Mr. Speaker. I see an opportunity where we can take a product and make some changes and put homes in the hands of residents of the Northwest Territories for substantially cheaper than we can do it in our traditional manner.

The timelines that we have to work with, the concept that we've worked with, along with ATCO Structures, is one that is visionary, let me put it that way. The opportunity is there to put homes in the Northwest Territories in the smaller communities at an affordable price. Mr. Speaker, not everybody in the Northwest Territories can afford $360,000 for a home that's been trucked up the highway and been put on stilts here in Yellowknife. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister make public, will he table the memorandum of agreement that somebody signed with ATCO some time ago? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, seeing that this is a confidential agreement with ourselves and ATCO, we will have our discussions and look at if that is a possibility. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 413-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Oral questions. The honourable Member from Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1096

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to continue where my Member's statement sort of left off with

some questions to the Premier of this House. Mr. Speaker, every time this letter of comfort is raised on this side of the House it seems that the response we receive back is like we've hit a nerve and this government can't wait to get back and to speak to us harshly and make fools of us as a response. So, Mr. Speaker, I can only imagine at why does it cause such a sensitive issue with this government that they have to strike back by saying that Members are too slow to keep up or whatnot. So my question to the Premier is, what did the citizens of the NWT get as a trade-off for directly signing this letter with Imperial Oil? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the answer is very simple: the more likelihood that the pipeline will be built. This letter was one last piece that was needed in order for the pipeline to move along to the next step in public hearings. Mr. Speaker, if that pipeline goes ahead, we get a lot; and I've mentioned before a list of things that we get, starting with the jobs, and the contracts, and the supply and material, the housing, the $500 million, which is, in some cases, bigger than what the land claim groups got.

We get a lot from this project and I'm proud that we were able to provide a bit of certainty for those who want to invest over $7.5 billion in our territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that from the Premier , but there seems to be that there's serious defence of this letter. Last week the Premier had said it's unfair to take one little letter...Well, it's not a little letter, Mr. Speaker, it's a big letter; it's a big statement signed by our Premier . So will the Premier admit to me today, and to this House, that a letter written and signed by this Premier is something to be treated seriously as a bold policy statement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, this is a letter of comfort. It's not a policy statement, it's not a contract, it's a letter of comfort saying that we are reasonable people to do business with, and our territory is a place where we're open to do business on a good business basis. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Finally I have to admit that the Premier and I are starting to agree. We are reasonable people.

---Laughter

Then, Mr. Speaker, the bottom line is, why did we need to send a three-page letter to say that we will treat these people reasonably? It didn't need to say that we will not necessarily raise taxes. All it had to say was we will treat them fairly and not unlike any other district in Canada. We didn't have to give everything away. So why did that letter just simply not say that we will deal with you fairly and simply? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I don't know if the Member doesn't read the letter or doesn't read very well or what, but it doesn't say that we're not going to raise taxes. Mr. Speaker, what it says is that we will maintain a post-devolution royalty regime that will not exceed the royalty burden in the Canadian Petroleum Resources Act. It says we will not increase property taxes disproportionately.

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Hawkins , rising on a point of order, what is your point of order, Mr. Hawkins ?

Point Of Order

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on a point of order, 23(

h) which makes allegations against another MLA alleging I didn't read this letter and don't know what I'm talking about. I think that was wrong. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . I'm going to allow a little bit of clarification, some debate on this point of order. To the point of order, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I said I don't know if the Member has read it or if he really understood what was in the letter, because he said that this letter says that we're not going to raise taxes and I'm just showing him that this letter doesn't say that. This letter says we're going to be fair. Mr. Speaker, I never said that he didn't read the letter. I don't know if he did, but I questioned whether he really understood it. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . To the point of order. The honourable Member from Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Yet again, the Premier says the same thing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The Chair did not hear anything that would, in my mind, constitute a point of order. So I'm going to rule that the Member does not have a point of order. Mr. Handley .

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1097

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I assume I can finish answering the question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just pointing out to the Member that this letter says we're not going to have a royalty regime that is inconsistent with the Canadian Petroleum Resources Act, that we will not increase property taxes disproportionately. It says that we will not target the Mackenzie gas project

operators. Mr. Speaker, it says that we will work toward a corporate tax agreement by the end of June.

Mr. Speaker, in answer to the Member's allegation that we've somehow committed to not raising property tax, that's completely untrue when I read the letter. It's very clear we're just saying we're not going to be unfair to the Mackenzie gas project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we want to put a pipeline tax, this says now we're targeting them. So they're going to show up at our door knocking on it with a framed letter of comfort and say, but you said you weren't going to have something to target them. Mr. Speaker, they had nowhere else to go. We're the only pipeline in North America of this size. I mean, we're the only one. So by writing a letter to say that we're not going to unfairly target them, well, geez, if we put a pipeline tax or something similar to that nature, Mr. Speaker, then we're going to be seen as targeting them.

They're going to come back. So how does the Minister defend that, or how does the Premier defend that position? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, for the Member's information, there are lots of other pipelines in North America. There are other potential pipelines in Alaska. We're not the only pipeline possible in North America. Mr. Speaker, our government doesn't target anybody. We don't target a pipeline; we don't target a mine; we don't target anything but our taxes, our general application, and we're saying to the company we're going to continue that. Now, Mr.

Speaker, this letter is also very clear in saying that this letter does not in some way compromise the rights of future legislative assemblies, future governments to change that. Nothing in this letter constitutes legally binding commitment or obligation of the GNWT or any future governments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 414-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Fiscal Assurances

Speaker's Ruling

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . The Chair feels compelled to remind Members of your rules around oral questions. We have used up 25 minutes and only gone through three questions so far. So I would like to caution Members to remember the rules around oral questions. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in follow-up to my Member's statement today, I am also following with great interest the subject of the Novel housing initiative and this project. I am pleased to hear that the government would understand the interests of a company that has taken it upon themselves to go out and spend a fair amount of money investing in the design and the creation of something such as these conversion units that we've seen and wouldn't then turn around and take all the information that this company generated through their own efforts and then try to shop it around to other companies.

Something would seem rather unethical about that approach to doing this. I do think that ATCO is a very reputable company. I think they started off in 1947 with the construction of one trailer. They're recognized internationally as being good at this, and they want to do business with northern participation. Mr. Speaker, I want to see the Novel thing succeed; I want to see the houses make it to the communities. In that regard, I would like to ask whichever Minister wants to answer this, I guess. First of all, there's 1,400 units.

How many of those units does the Government of the Northwest Territories, through the Housing Corporation and their programs, think that they can absorb of the 1,400? Thank you.

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Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . You need to direct your question to somebody; either the Premier or...

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Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's on the Novel, so Mr. Krutko or... Mr. Krutko . Thank you. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are earmarking half of them to be used to replace our public housing stock, and the other half we're hoping to put out to the private sector so we can accommodate housing for people who want to purchase these units out there.

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Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, then I would like to say that although I do applaud the government's initiative in this area, I am questioning and wondering whether the Government of the Northwest Territories is the best vehicle by which to deal with the 700 that might be absorbed by the private sector. It is, potentially, a business opportunity, and I have received calls from some leaders of some aboriginal community corporations who are saying that they would like an opportunity to potentially take up those 700 units, or a portion of them.

Has the Minister given any consideration to inviting private companies to participate in the setting up, the distribution, the sale of those other 700 units? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Krutko .

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Further Return To Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Question 415-15(4): Housing Opportunities Arising From Mackenzie Gas Project

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1098

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we're hoping that once we proceed forward with this idea and once we know it's basically been endorsed as the concept by Mackenzie pipeline group, at that

process then we will do consultations in communities, identify where the needs are, sit down with the