Debates of Feb. 12th, 2010

This is page numbers 4141 - 4178 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 69-16(4): Premier Absent From The House

Employment Opportunities In Small Communities

Nahendeh Residents Selected To Represent The NWT At The 2010 Olympics

Opportunities To Access Federal Funding

Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Canada’s Northern House

School-Based Multivitamin Program

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Funding For Inclusive Schooling

School-Based Multivitamin Program

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Marketing NWT Tourism

Mrs. Groenewegen’s Reply

Point of Privilege

Speaker’s Ruling

Written Question 21-16(4): Barrier-Free Housing

Community Long-Term Care Facilities

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Separation Of Labour And Material Components Of Construction Contracts

Reinstatement Of Community Liaison Officer

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 10:06 a.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Deputy Premier , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister’s Statement 69-16(4): Premier Absent From The House

Ministers’ Statements

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Deputy Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Floyd Roland will be absent from the House today to attend events related to the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 69-16(4): Premier Absent From The House

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Employment Opportunities In Small Communities

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement today is on economic development programs in Nunakput. In Nunakput communities every year we go through a huge time where youth have to leave the communities and go to places like Yellowknife or Inuvik. The primary reason this occurs is a lack of real jobs and opportunities for them in our home communities. This is a huge problem, Mr. Speaker. Our future, our communities are going to be a place where most of our people have holidays in the summer and where communities are empty of our youth.

The government needs to be active to assist communities with some serious programs and create jobs so our residents don’t have to leave our home communities. One concern always raised by constituents is that government doesn’t really care about our small communities, the residents believe it’s only because of the federal transfers.

All communities have to be treated equally because of our unique conditions. Our unique economic limitations are considered when allocating resources to various programs all across the North.

The unemployment situation in communities is very serious and this government has failed on this. There is a lack of hope for our youth in communities that I represent in Nunakput and this government has failed in this. Many communities have a revolving door system due to the lack of jobs whereby several people share a full-time job and then go on unemployment insurance. That, Mr. Speaker, is a shame.

The government needs to place more attention and resources on small, remote communities regarding the community-based economic development programs. These resources should assist the area such as providing community-based training and financial assistance. All over the country, companies are proving the geographic limitations are no longer, thanks to the increasing use of technology. People work from home or even in another province. For example, with the current technology in the Northwest Territories, like, Sachs Harbour could take part of a call centre, Mr. Speaker. This government should take advantage of technologies to assist and develop community-based businesses.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Employment Opportunities In Small Communities

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

This government should take full advantage of technologies to assist our community-based businesses and not send them to the South. We should look north.

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Employment Opportunities In Small Communities

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Nahendeh Residents Selected To Represent The NWT At The 2010 Olympics

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize the achievement of my constituents who were selected to represent the NWT at the Vancouver Olympics. They are: performers Gerry Antoine, a gifted Dene drummer from Fort Simpson, and Wesley Hardisty, a dynamic fiddler also from Fort Simpson. These men will be giving visitors from around the world a chance to enjoy our fine music from the North.

As well, our traditional arts and fine crafts will be showcased by Karen Cumberland from Fort Liard, who will be displaying the artistry of her birch bark basketry, and John Sabourin from Fort Simpson, who will be displaying his fascinating carvings and paintings.

Given the dedication of these musicians and artists to hone their talents and keep our culture alive, it is great to see them get such an opportunity to showcase this to the world.

As well, six youth ambassadors will also be representing us: Ms. Cheryl Bertrand, Mr. Calvin Loman and Tyson McLeod from Fort Liard, Mallory Nirlungiak from Fort Simpson, Vanessa Sangris from Jean Marie River, and Bhreagh Ingarfield from Nahanni Butte.

All the best to our participants at the Olympics and I know that you will do our North proud.

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Nahendeh Residents Selected To Represent The NWT At The 2010 Olympics

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Opportunities To Access Federal Funding

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We had a great opportunity to improve the quality of services in the 33 communities of the Northwest Territories. I’m talking about the stimulus funds, infrastructure funds, and Building Canada Funds. Out of the information that’s been provided, only 14 projects have been approved. A lot of the communities were not able to take full advantage of this program, either because they do not have the capacity to take it on or they don’t have the resources to match the 50 percent that’s needed to match those funds.

I think it’s critical that a government that’s responsible to 33 communities, not just the larger centres who are the people that have the capacity to put the proposals in, the people can match the funds because of the amount of gas tax they receive, but work with those communities that are challenged on how they can take advantage of federal program dollars.

I, for one, feel that this government had a perfect opportunity to ensure that the communities throughout the Northwest Territories, 33 communities, could have taken advantage of a major capital investment of funds from the federal government and ensure that it was shared across the Territory. When I look at the information I’m totally appalled that this government did not ensure that every community in the Northwest Territories was able to take advantage of this program. Some communities were totally left out of approval of these important dollars.

With regard to the government’s way of handling communities, especially the small and rural or remote communities who were left off this list, we have to find ways around using the excuse that we

gave the money to the communities and it’s their responsibility to spend it as they wish. The money you give to communities is not even enough to haul a couple loads of gravel. As far as the gas tax is concerned, in some communities it’s as low as $28,000 a year. I think it’s important for this government to seriously look at what this government can do to improve the services in the small and remote communities so they can take advantage of these federal infrastructure dollars.

At the appropriate time I will be asking questions directed to the Deputy Premier .

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Opportunities To Access Federal Funding

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some years ago the government introduced an Inclusive Schooling Policy. Over the years it’s become accepted practice for our schools to include every child in the classroom, no matter their mental or physical capability. Students in our schools who are special needs students range from those with minimal needs to those with very severe needs. Of these, according to a Canadian average, about 5 percent of these have severe needs for many different reasons. These children cannot manage in a classroom on their own and require a full-time aide to assist them every moment that they are in school.

The cost to the school board is about $70,000 per year to provide that aide. If a child is in school from kindergarten to grade 12 with perhaps an extra year or two required along the way, the cost to the board becomes enormous.

Yellowknife Education District No. 1 is the largest school system in the NWT and has excellent programs with excellent staff to handle their high needs special needs students. But in the last seven years, the district has seen a number of high needs special needs students, those who need a one-on-one aide, increase dramatically from seven or eight in 2004 to 25 in this school year, with another two expected next year. The percentage of special needs students who will need a full-time aide is increased from 4 percent in 2004 to almost 9 percent this year, twice the national average.

Needless to say, if those student numbers increase, so do the costs. YK 1 is looking at less inclusive schooling dollars next year but more high needs students.

The GNWT provides an excellent level of funding to education authorities. Over the years, ECE has recognized the high cost of inclusive schooling. They have provided steadily increasing dollars to fund the implementation of the policy, until now that is. The 2010-11 budget before us proposes a reduction in inclusive schooling funding. Yellowknife

school boards are concerned. ECE’s funding formula assumes that high needs students are at 5 percent or less of a board’s total special needs student population. If that percent rises, the cost to provide the extra aide required is borne by the school board.

Yellowknife Education District No. 1 brought this concern to the attention of the Minister of Education almost a year ago, Mr. Speaker, but there doesn’t seem to be any recognition of the problem by the Minister and his department. Is this large increase in high needs students an anomaly for YK 1? It would seem so to them.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Or is this perhaps a trend all NWT education authorities are experiencing? The only way to know for sure, Mr. Speaker, is to undertake an independent count of the severe needs students in NWT schools. It is highly unlikely there will be an even distribution amongst all schools, but that’s what the current funding formula assumes.

Boards with a higher incidence of severely disabled students must be funded to a higher level, Mr. Speaker. ECE needs to reconsider how education authorities are funded under the Inclusive Schooling Policy. Thank you.

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Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the early days of this government, we called on the government to determine the cost of buying our way out of the Deh Cho Bridge Concession Agreement, and yet this government declined that opportunity. We are now saddled with this bridge project.

The most recent news of an additional $15 million cost has severe implications for us. What does it mean? With the most recent news, we can forget about a new hospital wing in the immediate future and there are many other options we were considering that have now heard the door slamming shut with a disappointing bang. The soaring bridge costs puts undue pressure on our ability to meet our core social needs like improving daycare and early childhood education, protecting the environment and dealing with the onslaught of social ills we must address in more effective ways.

Mr. Speaker, I keep drawing the analogy of our personal lives as a test of our public policy. If we were a family, we would be getting close to living in the streets. Our credit cards are maxed out. We poured our money into building a new garage when the house is falling down. We are not penny wise

on our controllable costs like energy. We are at that point where we can easily spiral into crippling debt. So what’s to do?

Mr. Speaker, I think we need to stabilize the current situation. We need to consider an assessment, perhaps a complete audit, of where we are at and how we got here and especially, Mr. Speaker, where our vulnerabilities are so that we don’t experience unexpected events that push that spiral faster and deeper.

We need to consider those aspects that are currently difficult to predict and get our house in order so that we can afford those eventualities. They will happen. We will hear and we have heard that we are expecting this not to be the final word on the costs for this bridge. It would be wonderful if it was the final word and we could come in at the current price, but the final action that we really need, Mr. Speaker, will be to consider and put in place some sort of mechanism, be it legislative or otherwise, that will actually prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.

We were saddled with this as a result of a ridiculous action by the previous Assembly and previous Cabinet and we must deal with that. Sorry, Mr. Speaker, we came into this with a situation…

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Bromley , your time for Member’s statement has expired.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I was saying, we came in saddled with this situation, we need to be sure that we are not going to saddle future Assemblies with the same sorts of yoke we had to bear here. I think that’s something we can do and I’ll look forward to making sure that happens and I ask for support on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to speak today in response to the press release regarding the latest news on the Deh Cho Bridge. It was just two weeks ago that the Minister and his staff came before committee and said everything was fine even though numerous questions remained. The main contractor, ATCON, had been let go, the design work was still not complete and yet the Minister and even the Finance Minister in his budget address said the project could be completed on budget, although there will be a year’s delay. The government was quick to say that the new design would be less expensive to construct and here we are just two short weeks

later and they want $15 million more to complete the project, again, without a signed contract and without a firm design.

Mr. Speaker, I’ve been greatly concerned about the project on many different levels since my election to this House in 2003. The process that allowed the last government to enter into the deal in the first place is one that I maintain was greatly flawed. The project made some sense when it was a 50 to 60 million dollar project that would be self-financing. However, when the project went to $160 million it was no longer self-financing. It defied any logic why the government would continue to pursue the project when the updated cost benefit analysis would indicate the project would have a $53 million negative impact.

Mr. Speaker, let me be clear. The alarm bells were going off on this project and so-called partnership many years ago. The sad thing is, Mr. Speaker, not everybody was listening. This project has had problems from the very beginning and we can sit here and blame the last government, but this government’s been on the watch here for the last two and a half years and has to answer to that as well.

The question for government today is how to go forward with any confidence that this latest $15 million to be thrown at this bridge will be it. Residents want to know what this bridge will ultimately cost. Now the government is telling Members and residents its $182 million. Personally, Mr. Speaker, I don’t believe that it will be the final number. My guess is this project will cost close to $200 million by the time all is said and done and this, Mr. Speaker, is a complete and utter disaster of a project.

Mr. Speaker, the darkest days may yet be upon us as we continue to look at this project in this complete and utter boondoggle that the Deh Cho Bridge Project has become. Mahsi.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Canada’s Northern House

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to use my Member’s statement this morning to say how much I appreciate the good work of the people down in Vancouver at the Olympics who are making the Northwest Territories known for its beauty, for its uniqueness and a place to come visit and live and invest in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I was very impressed with the ITI staff. The Minister himself -- this whole Legislative Assembly -- should be congratulated because the number of people I spoke to at the Northern House, they were truly impressed by the magnificent opportunities of wealth and the beauty of the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and the Yukon.

However, with the Northwest Territories portion, people were in awe. They just couldn’t say enough.

Actually, Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories or Northern House received the gold medal in terms of the open house, in terms of showcasing their things. There are a lot of good people from the Northwest Territories, people who are in Vancouver who are making this happen, people who we have on our staff that are dedicated and that are there. I met the youth ambassadors. I met some of the culture people that are going to be performing down there. People just couldn’t get enough. It’s amazing when you walk around in that little area in Vancouver. They’ve done a good job to host us, to be host to the Olympics.

The thing about the Olympics is the buzz is in the air in terms of what’s going to be happening the next couple of weeks there starting tomorrow.

I want to thank the Minister for allowing me to travel with him to see it firsthand. At first I wasn’t too sure and I didn’t know if we were spending money wisely on the Olympics, but now I see it firsthand that we are doing a good job and I think the return on investment is going to be tenfold in terms of what’s happening in the future in terms of people coming up to live in the Northwest Territories.

So I want to say to the people in the pavilion at the open house, good job, keep up the good work, we sure appreciate your good work and what you say about the people of the Northwest Territories. Mahsi cho.

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Canada’s Northern House

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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School-Based Multivitamin Program

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to rise today to talk about a potential idea of how we can help improve the health of our children and youth in the Northwest Territories. I firmly believe that the empowerment of parents to ensure that a child is fed and taken care of properly is certainly on their shoulders and within their abilities, but I also believe the territorial government has a supporting role to help provide, focus and promote health delivery ideas to help feed children and youth of our Territory.

Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to discuss something I think could help these children. The government could develop a program, a grant system, to provide NWT children and youth with a multivitamin on a daily basis. Multivitamins could be distributed through daycares, day homes, preschools and, certainly, regular schools. In this way we could improve the nutrition of many young children and our youth in our Northwest Territories.

We are well aware that children who are regularly provided with nutritional meals are better able to

cope with the demands of schools, they progress faster in learning, and getting enough to eat sometimes does not necessarily guarantee that that will make sure that they get the most out of the foods that they need. Mr. Speaker, sometimes children are not eating all the nutritional foods that we would like them too, but a multivitamin could be that bridge to make sure this happens, because we all know the high cost of good foods here in this Territory.

We have been hearing discussions about greater need for vitamin D among northern populations because of the reduced hours of sunlight. As well, children tend not to play outside as much these days as we did in the past. A multivitamin could address the need for children and teenagers to get those important nutrients such as vitamin A, vitamin B2, zinc, potassium, magnesium, calcium and iron. Mr. Speaker, a multivitamin can be the source of a great opportunity to make sure these kids are healthy and learning. Mr. Speaker, I think a universal program that is provided to the schools and day care facilities could go a long way to help improve the health of our students and our youth.

Mr. Speaker, when I was a young child growing up, our schools offered multivitamins and I think it was a good measure and a good show of support for a government that cared about their youth and the growing path that they take. Mr. Speaker, I think this is something that I’d like to see if the Department of Education, Culture and Employment examine and consider as we go forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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School-Based Multivitamin Program

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to use this as an opportunity to recognize the hard work of our Pages. We have two Pages from Inuvik. We have Robyn Rinas and we also have Nicole Ellsworth. I hope they enjoyed their time here. They had an opportunity to see the Legislative Assembly at work and I hope it was a learning experience for them. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to recognize two Pages from Fort Resolution: Mr. Paul Boucher and Gerald Norn Dumas.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6,

acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my questions are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment . Our gold medalist there at the Olympics.

---Interjection

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Will this government place more attention and resources on small, remote communities regarding community-based economic development programs to assist small businesses? These resources should assist in areas such as providing community-based training and financial assistance.

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a matter of course, the direction we’ve given to the department is to try to make sure every community in the Northwest Territories has at least one development project. I think that in the Nunakput region we’re fairly close to getting there and we do have a tool kit of programs we can provide for training for businesses and also to explain all the different funding programs that we have. We will be very pleased to work with the small communities so they can take advantage of these programs.

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Will this government explore all current technologies and the needs of the Government of the Northwest Territories to try to find ways for small and remote communities all across the Territories to assist and benefit, such as call centres instead of having to use the ones in the South?

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Certainly we look at all the modern technologies. We are limited to a certain extent by the communications networks that we have in the Northwest Territories. But we do have satellite technologies. We do have equipment so we can have conference calls. We do have TV so we can see each other when we have meetings. As a department we’re working with the private sector so we can take advantage of any and all opportunities that come along.

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Will the Minister commit to me today to work with me to see if we can put up a call centre or some sort of assistance with the territorial government and a pilot project in one of my communities that I represent?

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

I would be pleased to work with the Member for Nunakput to examine all these different opportunities.

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Question 314-16(4): Economic Development Opportunities In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This coming year we’re looking at taking down the Deh Cho Hall in Fort Simpson. The constituents are wondering about accessing the material that’s there. I’ve heard through the grapevine, I guess, that all the materials are contaminated and cannot be used. I’d like to ask the Minister of Public Works about the ability of residents and the community of salvaging some of the material should the Deh Cho Hall be taken down in Fort Simpson.

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister responsible for Public Works and Services , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Taking buildings apart or demobilizing facilities that are of no more value to our government or communities is something that we do on a regular basis. We have fairly rigid guidelines of how to dispose of material. There are safety issues that we have to, of course, follow and contaminated material, as the Member has mentioned, has to go to, in a lot of cases, places that are designated for such use.

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

The old Deh Cho Hall is a huge building. It has lots of materials that can and should be used for the community for other projects. It has some really good lumber in there, once we strip away the boarding and plywood. There is lots of structural lumber. I heard that all the material will be destroyed and I think that’s a shame. I think the community and residents should access it. What can we do to ensure that the community residents can access any salvageable material at the Deh Cho Hall?

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

In a lot of instances there is some discussion with the communities as to how the contractor awarded with the contract would dispose of it. We would make the necessary arrangements. In the case of Deh Cho Hall I’m not sure as to the specifics regarding how that is going to be handled. I would have to confirm that. But I certainly would agree that dismantling the Deh Cho Hall would provide a lot of lumber for a lot of cabins around Fort Simpson and the surrounding communities. I will commit to the Member to provide that information.

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

The Minister gets it exactly. I’d like the department to provide an assessment and I’d like to see the report, too, that we can salvage

some of the material, and to ensure that assessment is being done as they deliberate any future contracts with the demolition of the Deh Cho Hall. Can the Minister assure that assessment about salvageable materials be done as soon as possible?

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

I would like to assure the Member that we have heard his comments. We will follow up on this project as we move forward and incorporate some of his concerns. I believe we have received similar comments from the Fort Simpson Dene Council some years ago and they had indicated they wanted to have some input and involvement. We had agreed at the time that we would follow up with them and I’d like to be able to do so and keep the Member informed of where we’re going. The budget includes money for demolition, so that’s something that’s going to happen relatively soon.

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. That’s exactly part of it too. I look at that project as a make-work for Fort Simpson. If we just send in equipment to tear down the building, that’s not doing anything to help improve our economy. Taking it apart and saving salvageable material can be good for Fort Simpson and for anybody who wants to access the material that’s there. Once again, if the Minister will provide and ensure that there is an assessment done, that there is salvageable material and not just tear it down quickly for the sake of tearing it down.

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

I share the Member’s sentiments on this issue. We, of course, have an obligation to stay within our budget that we have set for demolition. We have safety issues and contamination disposal regulations that we have to follow. But we’re able to meet all those requirements and I’ll be happy to ensure our staff has the discussion with the Member and the leadership in Fort Simpson as to the best way to move forward on this project.

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Question 315-16(3): Salvaging Materials From Demolition Of Deh Cho Hall

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Transportation . I think the Minister has, obviously, some explaining to do to both Members of the House and the public when it was just a couple of weeks ago that the Minister stood up in this House and replied to some questions that I had for him at the time, stating that the new design on the Deh Cho Bridge would be less expensive to construct and they were still under the impression that the project could get completed on budget even though

there was a delay of one year. Here we are two weeks later and the Minister is stating now that the project is going to cost $182 million.

There still is no, in my view, firm design. There still is no signed contract with the new contractor. I am just wondering how the Minister can explain that he can put a number out there like $182 million with all these moving parts still in existence. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct; two weeks ago we were very confident that we had the makings of a deal that was going to fall within the target and goal of what we had set as a budget. Since then, there have been more negotiations with the contractor that we are talking about. In fact, I should mention that who we are negotiating with right now, today, yesterday had brought back new numbers. We have all the moving parts, as the Member has indicated, together, including lost revenue because of the delay in the construction

schedule of one year, the deferral of the design, of course, and things of that nature and outstanding claims that we have to settle. It is summed up to a number, an excess of what we budgeted by $15 million. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, in the press release that the government has issued this morning, they also talk about a new project management team. I would like to ask the Minister what is the future of the former project management team on the Deh Cho Bridge Project. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, as a result of a number of discussions for the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, we felt that we needed to bring in a new team to provide project management on this job. We have since agreed and notified the people that were on the project management team that we will be bringing in a new company and new players to fill those roles. That has been accepted. We are now in the process of having discussions, how to do the transition and continue to make sure that we have a smooth transition as we move forward. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering why it has gotten to this stage, why something wasn’t done further in the past. We should have done something about this a long time ago. I would like to ask the Minister, is it going to cost the Government of the Northwest Territories anything to remove the players from the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation and that former project management team? Are we going to be paying anything for that? Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, I can’t predict what will happen in the future, but as of

now, our agreement is to terminate the services after transition period, after certain tasks are completed, which will happen in the next little while. The Member is correct; there was concern and he’s raised it in this House that there was concern over how the project was being managed. We also had concerns some time ago. We felt that we needed to wait and see how things unfolded. We also needed a pause in construction so that we can start the next phase before we sat down and had those discussions with the Bridge Corporation. This is what we have done. It has resulted in a new project management team. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess ultimately we are going to be paying the price for the poor performance of that project management team. I would like to ask the Minister today whether or not the Government of the Northwest Territories is going to have any legal recourse with that former project management team on the increased costs and the failure to deliver this project, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, I think all the players involved feel they have a recourse in terms of legal challenges. We are no different. I am assuming that we will see the fallout as the dust settles on this project. At this point, we are focussed on trying to get the bridge completed. We are really in a compressed time frame to get that done. We are, as I have stated, negotiating right now with a number of the players, the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, the lenders and also a company that we hope is not going to be influenced by our discussion here today, but we are very close to concluding those discussions. We feel that these numbers are solid. Thank you.

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Question 316-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to my Member’s statement, one thing we continue to see is have and have-not communities in the Northwest Territories, especially the small and remote communities, which were the reason for a lot of communities not being able to take advantage of the stimulus funding in regards to Building Canada funds. The reason that we get this is because they have substantial deficits or they are unable to identify matching funds.

Mr. Speaker, I, for one, feel that this government should reach out to those communities and try to find ways to ensure that they are able to receive federal capital dollars through a workable relationship with this government.

Mr. Speaker, in the previous government, there was a community infrastructure fund which was put forward by this government. About $30 million was given to all communities in the Northwest Territories based on a formula of base plus funding. I would like to ask the Deputy Premier , why is this government not looking at a system that is fair, transparent and that everybody can benefit when it comes to federal funding?

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Deputy Premier , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Deputy Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That deals with a specific program area under the mandate of the Minister of Public Works and Services . I want to defer that question to him.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Public Works and Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct; a lot of communities have felt that they are really challenged to have input in some of the stimulus money that came in very short order to this government. The program was quite compressed from a seven-year period. With very limited notice, we were required to put in two years’ worth of projects.

The Member has also referenced a Community Capacity Fund that was provided to the communities on a formula basis. It works quite well. That was the first area that we wanted to discuss with the federal government. The Minister of MACA did bring that concept up of formula funding for Building Canada funding and also stimulus program funding. That kind of arrangement was rejected by the federal government. They felt it wasn’t something they wanted to do.

We had to resolve to asking each community to come forward, to bring projects forward that were either on our government capital plan or on the community capital plan or projects that they were thinking about and had somewhat formulated and priced out. That is the rationale of how we ended up. Thank you.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, one of the main reasons is because the communities either had substantial deficits, which tells me that they are in trouble. I think that we have to find a way with working with those communities that are in trouble, finding a way that we can match funds with them or have funds. Right now what I see going on with the government is that they have surplus funds in certain projects that they are going to bring forward and they are going to subsidize certain projects which are presently on the books. For me, that is not fair.

I would like to know, what is this government doing to work with those communities that have a deficit situation so that they can take advantage of these federal infrastructure funds?

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Public Works and Services

Mr. Speaker, once again the Member is correct. There are a number of communities that were in a deficit situation historically for long periods of time. Given our previous method of allocating dollars, I am assuming that this is changing. I get the sense from my discussions, at least, that communities are better prepared as a result of the New Deal funding and their larger formula funding dollars that are being invested in the communities. However, that is going to take time. In this case, not everybody was ready to put a project forward.

Although we have probably the biggest capital budget in our government’s history over the last year, this year and possibly next year, there are still communities that need assistance. I don’t speak for MACA, but MACA has committed to working with these communities. They have people in the different jurisdictions helping them. Of course, we have to recognize that planning and making decisions on their own or for their own communities is not something that everybody has been doing up to now. It is relatively new. It is going to take some adjustment. I hope that is going to happen fairly quickly. Thank you.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I’d like to ask the Minister if he could give me a breakdown of exactly which communities received these federal dollars, what size the communities are and out of the 33 communities in the Northwest Territories, which ones weren’t able to take advantage of these programs. Can I have that in writing? Thank you.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Public Works and Services

Thank you. I’ll have to commit for the Minister of MACA , but there is I think roughly around 47 projects right across the Northwest Territories with the Building Canada funding and the stimulus funding and he’s listening so he should know, but we’ll commit, he’ll commit or I’ll commit for him, to providing that information to the Member. Thank you.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that it’s time that this government did an assessment of this program and federal programs and see exactly who is benefiting from them and also who is losing out on these programs simply because they’re having some financial problems or they don’t have the capacity to do it, because I think from small communities that is one of the core problems we see in our communities, is they don’t have capacity, they don’t have the human resources, they can’t take advantage of federal programs.

So as a government I’d like to request from the Minister if they can commit to looking at that scenario and see exactly what we can do better to improve the programs next time around for all communities.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

Deh Cho

Michael McLeod

Minister of Public Works and Services

Thank you. What the Member is speaking about doesn’t only challenge

the communities, it challenges our government when there is a huge injection of capital into our jurisdiction with a very short time frame to spend it. It really challenges us. I’ve conveyed it, the Minister of MACA has conveyed those concerns to the federal government, that we need a stable long-term agreement that would flow capital dollars so we can have everybody take part and have a piece of the dollars invested in their areas and in the areas that they want to see invested.

The Minister of MACA has informed me that they’ve also put some money aside in their budgets to do just as the Member is requesting, to help the communities so that they’re prepared to move forward with other capital dollars that may come up free. Thank you.

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Question 317-16(4): Equitable Access To Federal Funding

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Education . When we reviewed the Department of Education budget I asked a number of questions of the Minister and his officials with regard to inclusive schooling and how we fund inclusive schooling to our education authorities and I have a few more questions for him following up on my Member’s statement.

The Minister was presented with evidence from Yellowknife Education District No. 1 about a year ago, of a high number of severe special needs students within that district. I’d like to ask the Minister what his response was to the district officials at that time. Thank you.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We did receive a letter from various school boards identifying the costs of dealing with special needs. It is across the board in the Northwest Territories, not just one organization, but, Mr. Speaker, we did increase the inclusive schooling. Since 2005 until today there’s been a substantial increase in various locations within the school divisions. So, Mr. Speaker, we are looking at this very closely and we are currently dealing with enrolment issues that are challenging us right now and I think we need to focus in that area as well. But at the same time we’re currently looking at this and we’ll be discussing this in April at the chairs’ meeting. Mahsi.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. My point is not so much that enrolments are going down and it’s not so much that we necessarily have to increase funding. I don’t think that’s what perhaps the districts are asking for, but there is an unequal distribution of very severely high needs, very

severely special needs students within districts and the allocation of students is not even across the board. My point is, then, I think the point of YK1 is that the funding needs to be reallocated and redistributed so that severely impacted special needs students, the higher number in districts get more funding. I know the Minister has said that they’re considering the issue, and again, he said that it relies on enrolments, but I’d like to know from the Minister how this consideration that he’s talking about and the consideration that’s going to be in April, how that translates into action. What is his department actually doing? Thank you.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi. We need to get the facts from all the education board levels. We are gathering the facts from our department with the superintendents of each school board. The Member talked about unequal distribution. So we need to identify that. What is she referring to? Is it just one school board that is saying this or is it all school boards? So those are the types of discussions we’re going to have in April when I meet with education chairs.

So this is the important discussion that we’re going to be having and on a going forward basis we need to gather all the facts and also identify enrolment, because the number has gone down and that also has an implication on the funding as well. So we’ll continue to discuss this on a going forward basis. Mahsi.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you. I appreciate that the Minister has made a commitment to gather facts, but I think the problem is that he’s gathering facts based from a very subjective viewpoint. Each individual education authority, I believe, is being asked to provide this information and the point of YK1 is that we need to have an independent study, there needs to be an impartial gathering of the number of high needs students in each jurisdiction. So I guess with the suggestion from YK1 to do an impartial gathering of data to get at the actual facts, will the Minister consider doing that? Thank you.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi. I think that it’s important to highlight the actual true facts that the school boards will be providing. We’ve heard over and over not to hire any more consultants. We have our in-house people that can certainly deal with these challenges that are at the forefront, but at the same time working with the chairs and also the superintendents and they have valuable information that we can certainly use. So, Mr. Speaker, this certainly will be discussedin the April meeting. Mahsi.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister, I appreciate that the department is willing to do this in house and that the superintendents and chairs are providing information, but if I were chair of a board, it would certainly be to my

advantage to pad my numbers and to indicate that special needs students who aren’t severe may be severe and that’s why I’m suggesting that there needs to be an impartial person doing this gathering. So to the Minister, I’m not suggesting a study. Again, would he commit to having an impartial, outsider gather this data? Thank you.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We trust the board chairs and we trust the superintendents’ information that will be provided to us on the numbers that we need to work with. We will continue to work closely with them, because we provide funding to them and there’s accountability attached to that as well. So, Mr. Speaker, on a going forward basis in April we’ll be discussing and we’ll develop an action plan from there. Mahsi.

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Question 318-16(4): Funding For Inclusive Schooling

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I raised the issue of the health of our young people and ways that we could improve that.

Certainly I’d like to think of it as a way that we could develop a strategy over the next little while and certainly launch an ambitious plan that would be relatively cost effective but deliver great results, and that plan is coming up with a strategy for multivitamins for our youth and it could be implemented in such a way that day homes could access this, daycares and certainly provide it to our school districts so our young kids can have access to these type of important nutrients that multivitamins provide.

So to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , I’d like to ask today, because we don’t have one of these programs in place, would the Minister be willing to investigate the cost of this type of program and to see if it would be feasible if we could introduce something like this. Once again, I’d like to say, because there was a program like this in the Northwest Territories many, many years ago and I think it was quite successful. Thank you.

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this will certainly fall into play with the nutritious food that has been highlighted in this House, working along with my colleague at Health and Social Services with respect to what the Member is alluding to. In the past there has been some vitamins given out to the students. When I was at Chief Jimmy Bruno School back in the old days we used to get those colourful vitamins that we were taking on a daily basis.

Mr. Speaker, this can certainly be part of the discussion that the organizations will be having as an advisory group and giving us direction as this should be a part of the nutrition. So the group will certainly discuss that going forward. Mahsi.

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge and appreciate the answer the Minister provided. Mr. Speaker, I know in an ideal world we’d be able to provide hot breakfasts to all our young folks and these types of programs. That’s why I’m trying to take a measured approach and possibly a program that we could provide and afford. Would the Minister ensure that in this nutritional food basket study that they’re planning to do, that this multivitamin concept gets a high priority of consideration?

I’m not saying as in subject it to it has to come out as a high priority answer, but I want to make sure it gets full consideration up front. I don’t want to prejudice the dialogue and the research that may come through this study, but I absolutely want to make sure it gets full consideration and costed out and weigh the pros and cons. Thank you.

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, we’re aware that some schools are providing vitamins to some students. Not only that, but the organizations that I’ve highlighted in this House are clearly listening to the Member and I’m sure they’ll take that into consideration. We, as the two departments working closely with these organizations as well, can take this matter into consideration and if it could be part of the nutritious food programming. Then, by all means, those are the discussions we need to have. Mahsi.

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the faith that the Minister has that these people will be listening to Hansard, but just to ensure that they do get the message that this is an important issue that can deliver good things for our youth, would the Minister be willing to pen a letter to let this group know, that’s doing this review, that it is a priority of some people in this House and it could provide significant if not, certainly, substantial benefits for the health of our young people, noting the lack of nutritional items I noted in my Member’s statement? Would the Minister be willing to pen a letter to say, will you make sure you take this seriously? Thank you.

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I cannot, as the Minister of Education , dictate where the money should be spent on specific items. It would be up to the group to give us an indication and also the inventory of where there are gaps and that’s where we’ll allocate the funding that’s been identified. Mr. Speaker, it is noted that that will be part of the discussion that we’ll be having with the group. Mahsi.

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Question 319-16(4): School-Based Multivitamin Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are on the Deh Cho Bridge Project and they’re directed to the Minister of Finance .

Certainly we recognize now that there has been a lot of mismanagement and contractors disarray, costs are soaring, and the Minister of Transportation is working hard to stabilize that situation. I’m wondering, Mr. Speaker, what is the impact of the new costs of the bridge on the government’s debt, particularly with respect to our borrowing limit. As people know, we are obligated to stay within a limit of $500 million. I appreciate that response. Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Minister responsible for Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the debt or the $15 million that’s being requested is equivalent to about 10 percent over the initial cost. So that will be $15 million added to our cost as a government. So with the $15 million factored in, as we’ve said, it will shrink our borrowing limit by that equivalent amount. Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much for those general comments. Perhaps the Minister could interpret for us what sort of flexibility we’re giving up in terms of pursuing other things that this government might have wished to pursue. Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

As we look at this $15 million, the other point to keep in mind is that it’s significantly self-liquidating through the tolls and all the other arrangements that have been signed as part of this deal. But going forward, because of this debt and other debt that we’ve agreed to accumulate as part of the current economic downturn, we are going to be going down in our borrowing limit. In 2011-12, available borrowing capacity will shrink to about $85 million. Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I appreciate that more specific information. In the immediate future, and I’m sure there are other implications in the longer term, but what is this government doing to minimize our risk? What are the additional risks that we’re facing and what are we doing to minimize those risks? Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

The Minister responsible for Public Works laid out all the steps that are currently being taken to make sure that this project goes ahead. It’s 50 percent complete. It’s had some challenges, but it’s going to be, at this point we hope, the final costs will be about 10 percent over the budgeted amount. We are going to

work closely, as the Member indicated in his own statement, to stabilize this particular project, where it is right now, sort out the current challenges and then take a critical look, along with the Members, about what we’ve learned from the exercise, how do we go forward and what other particular issues that may be out there that could become major concerns for us. Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Your final supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, again, appreciate those comments. I think we, indeed, need to take some serious looks at what’s happening. I mentioned the spiral into poverty that can happen in families and certainly when we have soaring costs in the midst of an economic recession and so on, these are the sorts of things that I’m talking about. There are more in the future. We need to plan for them. What is the Minister doing, though, Mr. Speaker, on the larger picture side to ensure that this government puts in place a mechanism to ensure that future Assemblies are not saddled with exactly this situation? Mahsi.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

That broad policy issue and debate and discussion, I think, has to take place as a Legislature, to lay out whatever specific conventions or protocols that we need to have agreed to, to address the concerns raised by the Member. I know at this point we are doing our planning collectively, looking at June 2011 as the date up to which we could make substantive decisions, but after that we’re planning, recognizing that we’ll be moving into an election year. As a Cabinet, we’ve picked that particular date as a target for us that we’re working back from, recognizing that we’re going to be into a whole different mode after the last sitting of this Legislature before the election. Thank you.

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Question 320-16(4): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of ITI in terms of our recent meetings down in Vancouver and more particularly to the media people that were interested in the Northwest Territories such as the German newspaper and the Chinese television people there. They talked about the Northwest Territories and particularly important to the media person from Germany in terms of the tourism.

I want to ask the Minister, in terms of the feedback that we received that was very positive from the media outlet in terms of promoting a place to visit, the Northwest Territories, is the Minister taking this type of feedback from the media outlet to track visitors from European or Asian countries, in terms of strengthening our territorial parks? The German newspaper did talk about, you know, is there a road and when are you going to build a road

-- Mackenzie Valley Highway -- to get into the valley here? Is the Minister going to be looking at a type of new strategy in terms of how do we attract visitors from Germany or the Asian countries?

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the benefit of Canada’s Northern House is our interaction with national and international media. Certainly the interview we did with the German reporter gave us a lot of insight as to what the German people would find of interest in visiting the Northwest Territories, understanding that there are a lot of German tourists already visiting the Northwest Territories. Basically I think we understand that Yukon has direct flights from Germany to Whitehorse and so they get a lot of German tourists in that fashion.

So I think that is an area that we are, and have been, investigating and we do have a person that is working on our behalf in Europe to promote tourism to the Europeans, because that’s a very important sector. I believe that, as a reporter said, if we can get the Germans that are in Whitehorse, drive to Yellowknife, then fly back to Germany would be a tremendous attraction. So, certainly, we want to examine that possibility.

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

I was particularly interested with respect to this reporter when he was doing the interview with us talking about the unknown Sahtu region. The German people are very avid hikers. He talked about the hiking that could be done in the Northwest Territories. He was very interested in how to get into the Sahtu. He talked about the Mackenzie Valley Highway. In terms of that type of interest out there and attracting European visitors, would the Minister, with respect to all the feedback we’ve received regarding the Northwest Territories, take this to look at a strategy that will attract infrastructure and facilities in the regions that maybe we could have more visitors?

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We recognize that the Sahtu, the proposed CANOL Park, and the roads to Mile 222 are very spectacular. I think if we can work it out so that the German tourists who come off the plane and jump into RVs and drive down the road that we can find a way to get them to stop close to the NWT border and come into the Territories to do a hike,. I think if we can establish that type of product it would be very successful.

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

One comment I heard at the Northern House was they hope they can come to Yellowknife, jump on a plane, and visit a diamond mine. It really intrigues them, these diamond mines. That was one comment. We’re getting that type of interest at Northern House. I want to ask the Minister with respect to promoting the Sahtu that it would be nice to have these German people hike the CANOL Trail, jump in a boat, go up the Bear

River to visit the birthplace of ice hockey in Canada here, as we promoted it. It took a lot and had a lot of interest from the southern papers there in terms of this claim to fame here. I want to ask the Minister to see how much promotional awareness we have started over there to get this done in Northern House in terms of working with the people in this House here and the community of Deline.

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We want to develop all of those tourism opportunities. Anything that will attract people to the Northwest Territories I think is very important. The amount of interest that was generated with regard to promoting Deline as the birthplace of hockey, there was a lot of interest in it and I think that will probably have reaction to it. I guess we’ll see what kind of media exposure we’ll get. I expect we’ll get some articles about it and I think that you’ll have to be prepared to defend that claim.

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly I’m prepared to lace up with the Minister of ITI and defend this claim to fame in terms of the birthplace of ice hockey in Canada.

I want to ask the Minister in terms of all the good publicity we have and now with the Olympics that are going to start, I think it’s going to somewhat scale back and the focus is going to be on the athletes in that once we finish this whole event that’s happening in Vancouver we’ll be sitting down and looking at a bigger picture strategy in terms of how to go forward and continuing on the good work that this department has done on promoting the Northwest Territories. How do we go forward in bringing people into the Northwest Territories? Will we have a bigger strategy?

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We are close to completing our Tourism 2010 Plan and we will be taking all the information we hear or are hearing from Canada’s Northern House and we are working with NWT Tourism to develop a 2015 tourism plan. Using that approach we will endeavour to take all these opportunities into account. Also, as the Member recognized yesterday, we were getting a lot of interest from the international media to come up and find out more about the Northwest Territories so that they can promote it even further.

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Question 321-16(4): Marketing NWT Tourism

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to the opening address. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Mrs. Groenewegen’s Reply

Replies to Opening Address

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to use my reply to the opening address to talk about the Deh Cho Bridge. The

reason why it is important to talk about this today is that the people of the Northwest Territories have a right and need to know and understand what is happening with the Deh Cho Bridge Project because of its potential far-reaching impacts on the financial well-being of our Territory.

Looking at the history of this project, the enabling legislation called the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation Act was passed in the 14th Assembly. At that time

the legislation contemplated a $50 million bridge with a $6 per tonne toll that would finance the cost of the bridge. When the cost of the bridge more than tripled, the business case and cost-benefit analysis changed radically. In spite of this, because legislation passed several years earlier allowed it, the GNWT was able to proceed.

Amid much debate about the need for the bridge, whether it was a priority in the investment opportunities and demands for much needed capital infrastructure, the project was still pushed ahead. If anyone thinks that I did not question the advisability about proceeding with the bridge at every turn, this is just some of the Hansard of the questions and statements that I made in this House.

Our financial commitment started off in the form of loan guarantees. The first being for $3 million. We were told that would be the limit. Then it extended to $6 million, then to around $9 million. All the while Members were assured that this was the extent of the GNWT’s liability and the project would never proceed unless the federal government came to the table with significant financial contribution and underwriting.

All through this process the normal scrutiny of public transparency was blurred by the public-private partnership model which put the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation out front as the private partner, allowing the GNWT to avoid fulsome disclosure of the dealings surrounding the bridge in the name of corporate proprietary privacy.

Some would ask why would we have the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation acting as both the management teams and the proponents of this project. It was a way to keep the debt of the project off the books of the Government of the Northwest Territories, who at the time had a borrowing limit of $300 million. We have to be very clear about that. This was an attempt to build public infrastructure for public use while keeping that debt away from our balance sheet.

The argument was made for economic benefits that would flow to the community of Fort Providence from the construction, maintenance and management of the bridge. But as the proponent, the corporation had to have an equity stake in the project, equity which they had difficulty ever pulling together and at the 11th hour, even saw the

project’s general contractor, ATCON, coming to the

table to take advantage of the portion of the equity position in the bridge that they were about to build. I am not sure, Mr. Speaker, how ATCON’s equity participation was going to benefit the people of Fort Providence or the Northwest Territories.

Now, there is some doubt as to whether every Member of Cabinet fully and wholeheartedly supported proceeding. That three days, Mr. Speaker, before the last territorial election, when the ability of Cabinet Ministers and outgoing Premier should have passed the point of making substantive decisions affecting the Territories, the Concession Agreement was signed.

Mr. Speaker, it took many months for the Concession Agreement to be shared with Members of the Legislative Assembly and only came out after literally hours of questioning on the floor of the House in attempt to get an idea of the GNWT’s liability associated with this major piece of capital infrastructure, larger than anything the GNWT had ever undertaken. A project, although financed through the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, was approved on the basis of a 100 percent guarantee of this territorial government.

The GNWT went into this knowing full well that if anything went wrong, our government would be on the hook for the full amount of a loan. Mr. Speaker, this, in spite of my questions to Premier Roland dated February 20, 2008, in which -- and I quote from unedited Hansard, February 18, 2008 -- I had asked about the liability to the government. The Premier answered, “We are not guaranteeing the large loan. We have only guaranteed the $9 million.” The naysayers, as we were dubbed, were trying to ask questions we thought were responsible in the interest of holding the government accountable.

That is our job, after all. We are often scoffed at and told, don’t worry. In spite of the many red flags along the way, we had no opportunity to intervene, just told to trust.

I remember being in the sound rooms at CBC Radio on a panel including the project manager, while he waved his arms in exasperation as I asked what I thought were reasonable questions. In spite of pressing demands on the time and budgets of the Department of Transportation for much needed infrastructure and maintenance across the North, very much energy and money from within the department has been expended on the bridge project. The total amount of that time and resources has never fully been disclosed, articulated or accounted for.

Mr. Speaker, who wanted the Deh Cho Bridge, you may wonder. No one that I know personally, except for some local contractors, understandably, who were able to secure some of the work on a project primarily dominated by southern services. The GNWT proceeded without a clear message of support from the constituents of the Northwest

Territories. I was told, don’t worry, the bridge will be paid for. Everyone north of the Mackenzie River crossing and freight coming to Hay River won’t be affected by any bridge toll. Federal employees would lose their isolated post allowance. Yellowknife and points north consumers would shoulder the higher cost of getting goods into their communities and the truck hauling, the diamond mines would pay. We thought, they thought a small way to catch your benefit from mining interests in the absence of royalties. It was all good. The project started out under some of the highest commodity prices in history and still in a time of heated economic activity, thus the high cost.

The Bridge Corporation or not, public private partnership or not, let’s call this what it was. It was a piece of public infrastructure financed in advance by a public government. The shell of the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation was only a means, as I said before, of a way to keep the project off the books with the GNWT so that we can stay within our federally legislated borrowing limit. There is probably a good reason why we have a borrowing limit. The inception and management of this project is the perfect point in case.

Strange how a project sold as having a fixed design, a fixed contract and a fixed price has recently gone through a major design revision, a change of general contractor and -- I’m coming to the price part -- just two weeks ago we were told in this House that the project was still on budget, if somewhat behind schedule.

So why are we talking about the Deh Cho Bridge today? The bridge is half built. The original general contractor of the project is gone. The management team for the bridge is now being handled in house because the lender is, understandably, getting nervous. We are way past the point of no return. The government is going to come to the people of the Northwest Territories, through us, for approval of an additional $15 million of public funds. The sensitive negotiations that the Minister spoke of yesterday are not yet concluded. So who knows what other surprises await us in the future.

We are told, don’t worry. It will be recaptured by the toll. Don’t forget that we are still also on the hook for the administration and operation of the toll collection for the next 35 years, probably more than $4 million per year and indexed. As to recovering all of this from the toll, the business case for the tolls revenue was really suspect, even before the recession and before the potential for an alternative to diesel-generated power existed for the diamond mines.

Mr. Speaker, I have always thought that there were more pressing needs for our government’s attention and resources than a bridge at Fort Providence.

On a personal note, I have probably used the ferry and the ice bridge more times than anyone in this

room. I thought that, except for a brief interruption in the spring, it was a system that worked for me well. But somebody wanted to leave this Territory a legacy. We have been left with a legacy all right. I don’t think we have even begun to see the end of it yet. We have been sold a bill of goods so many times already on this project that don’t worry, trust us, this is the limit of our involvement, just isn’t believable anymore.

So what options do we have going forward? Why do I think it is important for people to understand clearly where we are at? Yesterday in the House I said that the costs and mismanagement of this project has the potential of being the biggest thing that has ever happened to this government. This is why we have fiscal forecast scenarios that have been prepared. Option one would approve the $15 million appropriation for the bridge.

This option includes a few other assumptions going forward, keeping us from crashing into the debt wall, but still isn’t too pretty for the interests of other capital projects and spending in the next few years. The other options aren’t options at all, because they see us taking the bridge debt onto our books and taking this project over and operating it for what it really is: a government project. The reason why those two options aren’t options at all is because the government would either be over the debt limit or essentially bankrupt.

Mr. Speaker, I can’t predict what Ottawa will have to say about that. I was here in the 13th Assembly

when previous governments had racked up $150 million debt and then enacted the Deficit Elimination Act for the next Assembly. The first thing the 13th Assembly had to do was roll back costs and spending, including the rollback of all the public service salaries by 6 percent across the board and make deep spending cuts to balance future years’ budgets.

Some would ask, why not just mothball the project and pick it up again in the future in better economic times? The problem with that idea is that apparently the pillars would have to be removed. That would cost more than it cost to put them there in the first place. Terminating the lending agreement that we are backstopping would also cost about $50 million in interest and penalties. That idea of stopping the bridge at this juncture is probably a non-starter. But just in case…

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Mrs. Groenewegen’s Reply

Replies to Opening Address

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

…(inaudible)…

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, we have an understanding that we have confidential briefings with committee. We share information. It should be respected. The Member is clearly aware that there are processes and negotiations underway. This information was shared last night, yesterday morning and Tuesday night. My point of privilege is that by disclosing the

specifics, the scenarios and all the various things that we are trying to talk about as we try to resolve this issue are bringing forward into a public forum, from a confidential forum, information that was agreed to be kept confidential until we concluded our arrangements. Thank you.

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . I am going to allow a little debate on this point of privilege. To the point of privilege. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Information was shared with committee and I did speak to the House yesterday and indicated to them that I felt that the information that had been shared really belongs to the public, because we expect feedback from our constituents on how we proceed and how we go forward with this. I think that I am just trying to explain that one of the options that people out there may think is available to us is not available to us and I did not use a specific amount. I talked about a ballpark amount and I, Mr. Speaker, believe that in representing the interest of the public to know what is before us, that it was acceptable to use this number. Thank you.

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . To the point of privilege. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to say a few words on the point of privilege. Mr. Speaker, while we have an obligation to provide Members with details, with explanations, with discussion of accountability, we also have an expectation for the Members of this House to act reasonably. Mr. Speaker, the Member has disclosed information that was provided to committee in confidence and I would submit that disclosing this confidential information constitutes a breach of privilege. I would also submit that this disclosure is a violation of the principles of consensus government that we use in this forum for the dignity of this House. Thank you.

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. To the point of privilege. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Point of Privilege

Point of Privilege

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, this issue is definitely in the public domain. There was a press release put out by the Minister this morning. The comments from my colleague Mrs. Groenewegen were about the situation that we had to deal with in the 13th Assembly and that reality is real. The issue of having a major deficit in this government has a major implication on all programs going forward. The press release clearly stipulates that this bridge is not going to cost us $165 million. It’s going to cost us $181 million and we don’t really know