Debates of March 2nd, 2006

This is page numbers 1495 - 1520 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Motion To Elect Acting Speaker

International Women's Day And Wise Women Awards

Post-secondary Education And Skills

Searching For Answers To Constituents Concerns

Positive Working Relationship Of GNWT And Tlicho Government

WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Hay River Reserve Kamba Carnival

Acknowledging Accomplishments Of Nahendeh Constituents

Ruling On WCB Chronic Pain Syndrome Policies

Barren-ground Caribou Management Plan

Fiscal Wishes For The Nwt

Recommendations For Caribou Management

Medical Escort Policies

Recognition Of Arctic Winter Games Athletes And Organizers

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

WCB Chronic Pain Policy

WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Medical Escort Policies

Medical Ground Transportation Services

Hook Lake Bison Management Program

Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Financial Support For Adult Basic Education Students

Return To Written Question 28-15(4): Exemptions For Land Lease Only Policies

Return To Written Question 29-15(4): Passport Acquisitions For Arctic Winter Games

Tabled Document 108-15(4): Framework For Action 2005-2008 Status Report To December 31, 2005

Tabled Document 109-15(4): Corridors For Canada Ll: Building On Our SuccessTabled Document 110-15(4): Connecting Canada: Coast To Coast To Coast

Recognizing The Value Of Elders' Knowledge

Performance Audit Of The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Recommendation That The Executive Council Table A Comprehensive Response To Committee Report 8-15(4)

Recommendation That The GNWT Prepare Consolidated Budgets Beginning With The 2008-2009 Budget Cycle

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2005-2006

Bill 16: Tobacco Control Act

Item 21: Prorogation

Assent To Bills

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Charles Dent , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1495

Clerk Of The House

Mr. Tim Mercer

Members, it is again my duty to advise the House of the unavoidable absence of both our honourable Speaker and Deputy Speaker. Therefore, pursuant to

section 48 of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I will now entertain a motion to appoint an acting Speaker. Mr. Menicoche .

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Motion To Elect Acting Speaker, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1495

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake , that the Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay , be appointed Acting Speaker for the remainder of the session.

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Motion To Elect Acting Speaker, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1495

Clerk Of The House

Mr. Tim Mercer

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Motion To Elect Acting Speaker, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1495

Some Hon. Members

Question.

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Motion To Elect Acting Speaker, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1495

Clerk Of The House

Mr. Tim Mercer

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? I will now ask Mr. Ramsay to assume the chair as Acting Speaker.

---Carried

---Applause

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Motion To Elect Acting Speaker, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1495

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, colleagues. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements.

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Minister's Statement 88-15(4): International Women's Day And Wise Women Awards

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1495

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Countries around the world will celebrate International Women's Week from Sunday, March 5 to Saturday, March 11, 2005, with the highlight being International Women's Day on March 8th.

There are many challenges in our work to advance women's equality. Through the dedication and commitment of organizations such a the Status of Women Council, Native Women's Association, the NWT Coalition Against Family Violence and a large number of dedicated people, much good work has taken place. We have seen the development and implementation of the NWT Family Violence Action Plan, increased participation by people from many communities in the Women's Voice in Leadership initiative and increased awareness of the importance of women's active participation in economic development.

It is incumbent on this government to ensure that we continue to support women in their work towards equality. Our government remains committed to work alongside the Status of Women Council, Native Women's Association, the NWT Coalition Against Family Violence and other groups and individuals in this important work.

Every year, the Status of Women Council of the NWT seeks nominations for the Wise Woman of the Year Awards. These awards are in recognition of the dedication and service women have given to their communities and regions. It is my privilege to recognize this year's recipients of the Wise Women Awards: Marie Speakman for the North Slave...

---Applause

...Eileen M. Koe for the Beaufort-Delta...

---Applause

...Tina Marie Gargan from the Deh Cho...

---Applause

...Laura Lennie for the Sahtu...

---Applause

and Louise Fraser for the South Slave.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate all the award winners and thank them for their dedication to improving the lives of women and families across the NWT.

On International Women's Day, March 8th, there will be a bread and roses luncheon here in the Great Hall when the Wise Women Awards will be presented. I welcome all of you to attend this special occasion and take the opportunity to personally congratulate these dedicated women of the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

----Applause

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Minister's Statement 88-15(4): International Women's Day And Wise Women Awards

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1495

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 89-15(4): Post-secondary Education And Skills

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1495

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide an update to Members on the National Summit on Post-Secondary Education and Skills I attended in Ottawa on February 24, 2006.

Mr. Speaker, in August 2005, the Council of the Federation recognized that governments, educational institutions and the private sector must work together to

develop and implement a plan for higher education and skills training for Canadians. Premiers McGuinty and Charest were tasked with convening a summit of stakeholders to examine key issues and challenges in post-secondary education and skills to help shape the development of the Canada-wide strategy.

The national summit, called Competing for Tomorrow, provided the opportunity to invite key stakeholders to participate in a variety of sessions. The NWT delegation included Brenda McDonald, executive director of Aboriginal Futures; Jay MacDonald, chairperson of the Apprenticeship, Trades and Occupations Certification Board; Yacub Adam, acting chairperson of Aurora College Board of Governors; Mike Vaydik, general manager of the NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines; and, Leon Lafferty, chairperson of the Mine Training Society.

As you can see, this delegation is representative of key sectors including post-secondary education, apprenticeship and trades, mining, oil and gas development, and aboriginal human resource development.

At the summit in Ottawa, the NWT delegates participated in workshops where they expressed their perspectives and views on the challenges and needs of post-secondary education and skill development in the NWT. I would like to thank the five members of the NWT delegation for attending the summit and sharing the NWT points of view. This input, and that of the other stakeholders from across the country, will guide the Council of the Federation in developing a pan-Canadian strategy for post-secondary education and skills for Canada.

One of my colleagues stated during the summit that post-secondary education and skills are the engine that drives economic development. Nowhere is this more true than in the Northwest Territories where we have a great opportunity to build a sustainable future. It is my hope that a pan-Canadian strategy will:

• include approaches to close the gap in education levels between aboriginal citizens and the general population;

• address the need for the federal government to restore funding to at least the levels that they were in 1994-95; and

• provide options and solutions to address the shortage of skilled workers, especially in western Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the completion of the post-secondary education and skills strategy to help people ensure that northerners and all Canadians are well equipped to thrive in the 21st Century economy.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 89-15(4): Post-secondary Education And Skills

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1496

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Premier Handley. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Searching For Answers To Constituents Concerns

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1496

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have titled my Member's statement today, What do I Tell Them? Sometimes in our duties as MLAs we receive many questions from constituents on the way our government does business. What do I tell them, Mr. Speaker, when the decisions in attitude puzzles even me? What do I tell family when they want to know why their mother and grandmother didn't return home? Do I tell them she was improperly transported when she came to Yellowknife for a medical appointment?

What are we supposed to tell frontline workers and people needing treatment that a consultant says we don't need treatment centres when everyone in the regions knows we do? Who are we listening to? Is their opinion not important? They can tell us what works and what doesn't work. What are we supposed to tell our own frontline workers when they ask about the direction that the government is going? Do I tell them not to worry; a consultant from the United States knows what is best for us and will point us in the right direction?

Mr. Speaker, when my grandchild asks me about the decline of the caribou herds, do I tell him or her that our generation couldn't manage the herds well enough and that you and your generation may be out of luck? Then, he or she will ask me about the resources and all the money that left the territory and we have no money left from the royalties. I will have to be honest and say that we spent too much time disagreeing with each other while the gas flowed south and the money went to Ottawa.

Mr. Speaker, when I decided to run as an MLA, I told people that I would be honest with them. If I tell them that everything is okay today, Mr. Speaker, then I have broken that promise. Thank you.

---Applause

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Searching For Answers To Constituents Concerns

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1496

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Positive Working Relationship Of GNWT And Tlicho Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1496

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories represents everyone in the North and makes decisions that affect everyone on a daily basis. It is good for me to see, as a representative of the Monfwi riding, that the GNWT Cabinet meeting in Rae-Edzo on January 26th was a true success from our perspective.

While there, Cabinet met with the Tlicho Government, the executive council members, Grand Chief George Mackenzie, chiefs Leon Lafferty, Charlie Jim Nitsiza, Henry Gon and Charlie Football, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as you know, the Tlicho agreement became law on August 4th of last year, 2005. Many of you have followed and observed the struggles of the Tlicho to get to that point. There are many things in that agreement that will take time for the government to come to grips with as we are the signatories.

Mr. Speaker, the meeting was a government-to-government meeting. It was very fruitful. They have made commitments to work closely together to see how the Tlicho Government can be implemented by both parties that both parties were committed to. Mr. Speaker, this goes to show that GNWT is very serious in recognizing the self-government and is willing to make the

agreement work in all of its intents and purposes. All the Cabinet Ministers were presented with cardholders decorated with the Tlicho logo, Mr. Speaker. This is our sign of give exchange. It has been part of our Tlicho tradition. I am proud to say that the meeting has benefited the cottage industry in my community.

Mr. Speaker, at this time, I want to thank the Cabinet for meeting in my home community which sends a strong message that the people in the small communities is what GNWT is all about. There is a continued positive working relationship between the GNWT and the Tlicho Government. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Positive Working Relationship Of GNWT And Tlicho Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1497

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1497

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak today once again in support of the cause of the quick service restaurants in Yellowknife. As you are well aware, this issue has been on the front burner for a number of us, and I am not sure we are getting any closer to resolving and addressing some very real and legitimate concerns that these QSRs have. Make no mistake about it, Mr. Speaker; unless the WCB, the Minister and the governance council do something positive and do something soon, we risk putting some of these businesses out of business, Mr. Speaker. I am not going to let that happen.

I appreciate the WCB's position that this is only a small group out of many businesses and that many of them are not complaining, but in public eyes, we are not here to speak about the happy clients we have. Thank goodness we get some of them once in a while. Our main task here is to be the voice of those small portions of our client groups who are most disadvantaged, the most grieved and the most frustrated. In this case, we have both the employers and injured workers in that area. I submit to you that the WCB Governance Council and the Minister have to step up to the plate on their behalf.

The status quo is not working for them. We need a different look, different approach and different attitude. As it stands now, these QSRs are paying more than oil and gas well drillings, air transportation, trucking, public utilities, even forest fire, ambulance and rescue services. Some of them have seen a decrease of more than 25 percent. Yet the QSRs have seen a 25 percent increase for four years in a row. That is more than double during that time. No other group I can see has gone through such an increase at the same time.

Mr. Speaker, to top it off, I understand that the WCB is planning on moving the camp and industrial caterers into this subcategory, a category that is paying more than the QSR. This is going in the wrong direction, Mr. Speaker. There is no misconception on my part about what WCB is doing or not doing. Both the WCB Governance Council and the Minister have a choice of defending the status quo or doing something proactive and out of the box. I do hope that they will have the heart to do the latter and do it soon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1497

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Members' statements. The honourable Member for the Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod.

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Hay River Reserve Kamba Carnival

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1497

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Spring has always been an important time in the North with our long and dark winters. Northerners, more than most people, are ready to celebrate the arrival of spring.

Historically, springtime festivities in the North have been an important social occasion when families, friends and neighbours join together, renew their ties and celebrate the return of the warm spring sun and the weather. That tradition continues today with spring carnivals being held in communities across the Northwest Territories. An important part of that tradition is the Kamba Carnival hosted by the K'atlodeeche First Nations on the Hay River Reserve. This annual spring celebration has been held for 23 years now, and I am pleased to announce that the festivities are getting underway once again today.

Since its humble beginnings, the Kamba Carnival has grown to become a popular and successful event. People from many other NWT communities and from other provinces come to enjoy themselves. This is an alcohol-free family oriented celebration that helps to foster the spirit of cross-cultural awareness. People from all ages are encouraged to test their northern skills in a variety of events including snowshoe races, tea boiling, axe throwing, log sawing, dog races, hand games, drum dances and talent shows. I extend an invitation to the Members here, and to northerners everywhere, to come to the Hay River Reserve this weekend and join in on the fun.

In recognizing this popular event, it is important to recognize the hard work and dedication of the organizers, the carnival committee who work year round to make the Kamba Carnival a success. It is not only the carnival committee but the many volunteers, the sponsors and the supporters who make it possible. I wish them all another very successful year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Hay River Reserve Kamba Carnival

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1497

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Acknowledging Accomplishments Of Nahendeh Constituents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1497

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to make special mention to the Nahendeh constituents. One to Debora McPherson for achieving over four years for certification in accounting. The past weekend, I had the distinction of watching the mixed adult broomball team that came second in the NWT broomball championships. After 17 years, we have achieved a medal there. As well, I watched the 16 and under Thomas Simpson school wolf pack basketball team that earned silver in the prestigious cager annual basketball tournament. I just want to add that Teyan Menicoche was most valuable player.

If you recall, he was a Page here two weeks ago. As well, in speed skating, it is the fourth year for participation from Fort

Simpson constituents. They, too, are now progressing to earning medals.

If I may, Mr. Speaker, we have a Caitlin Jaffray, gold in the B division; Julian Porter-Heron, gold in C division; Alex Roche, gold in B division; Emily Parker, silver in B division; Alex Keith, silver in C division; Tyler Pilling, silver in B division; Ian Keith, bronze in C division; as well as Kevin Roche and Madison Pilling have gold medals for overall champions in their divisions.

Just one more list I have here, Mr. Speaker, is the 2006 Arctic Winter Games participants from Nahendeh. I have Valerie Gendron, mission staff; Mr. Shane Thompson, mission staff; Keri-Ann Loutit, soccer; Caitlin Jaffray, speed skating; Mr. Ken Baton from Fort Wrigley, cross-country skiing; as well, my daughter Miss Deidra Villeneuve, for soccer. Congratulations to all. You all did good. You are good models for us all. I wish you the very best and in all your future endeavours, as well. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Acknowledging Accomplishments Of Nahendeh Constituents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1498

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche . Member's statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Ruling On WCB Chronic Pain Syndrome Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1498

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Ivan Valic is a 51-year-old man. His life has been shattered by a 19-year-long odyssey involving claims for chronic pain for the Workers' Compensation Board of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut. Mr. Valic was a robust young construction worker in 1987 when he suffered the first of four work-related injuries over a 10-year period. Now, Mr. Speaker, he lives a solitary life in a basement apartment of Calgary. He has lost everything. He is an angry and frustrated man who has endured almost two decades of systemic manipulation, perpetual bureaucratic process and clear discrimination of Charter rights.

Mr. Speaker, a handful of powerful painkillers he eats every day at his own expense. It is the only way to keep at bay the debilitating pain in his back. Mr. Valic is an exception to the normal fate of injured workers rejected by our WCB. Over the years, he is persistent in pressing his case before the WCB board and its endless cycle of governance councils, appeals tribunals and review committees. He has persisted to the very top of the system, the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories and here he may finally be getting some justice.

In an exhaustive 21-page ruling by the Honourable Justice Virginia Schuler rendered on December 14th of last year, Mr. Valic, represented by Yellowknife lawyer Jim Posynick, was indeed found to have been discriminated against under

section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is because the board's policy regarding chronic pain syndrome fails to treat those injured workers on an equal standing with other injured workers, Mr. Speaker.

Justice Schuler also found that in the board's decisions and the tribunal's decisions, Mr. Valic was denied natural justice. She found that the board's behind the scenes procedures violated Mr. Valic's right to a fair hearing. As a result of this reasoning, Justice Schuler quashed their rulings. She also ordered that a new appeals tribunal be re-established to hear Mr. Valic's case, and the matter shall be given timely attention.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Ruling On WCB Chronic Pain Syndrome Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1498

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Braden is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Braden , you can conclude your statement.

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Ruling On WCB Chronic Pain Syndrome Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1498

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, colleagues, Mr. Speaker. To the matter of the board's failed policy on chronic pain, Justice Schuler has left this to be resolved by either the board or by a legislative action of this Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, this decision is a significant indictment of the failure of our WCB to manage in a fair and compassionate way, let alone a legal and proper way, the very reason it exists. I will conclude my statement with one more reflection on Mr. Valic's situation. The sad part of this story is, as of today, Mr. Speaker, that he is really no further ahead today in his life than when he was injured 19 years ago. He is still an angry and frustrated man seeking justice, fairness, dignity and comfort. Is this too much to ask? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Ruling On WCB Chronic Pain Syndrome Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1498

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Barren-ground Caribou Management Plan

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1498

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the barren-ground caribou management plan has always been a topic of many discussions, Members' statements and public interest since the strategy was first made public. It may as well continue to be a contentious issue, especially for hunters and trappers here in the NWT.

I would hope that this being the last session until May, that my Member's statement will be the final gut shot on this issue. Mr. Speaker, the seven immediate actions that the government has come out with in this strategy have to be revisited and rewritten to more accurately reflect some of the recommendations and ideas that will no doubt be coming from the caribou management meetings by the various co-management boards and agencies over the next couple of weeks.

I would like to get the Environment and Natural Resources Minister to retract a couple of these rules, especially to hunt bulls only requirement which many hunters and trappers do not support and the increase in wolf tags for non-resident harvesters.

I believe that a full-blown public education campaign will alleviate a lot of this public pressure and put to rest especially the public's perception that this government continues to enforce wildlife management rules without proper consultation or public input. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Barren-ground Caribou Management Plan

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Fiscal Wishes For The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a band called the Bare Naked Ladies sings a song called If I Had a Million Dollars. Mr. Speaker, I always liked the song. Again, I have my own version to share with the House. I performed a version of this song during last year's budget session. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, the rules of this House still do not allow guitars or keyboards or even backup singers to be with me, so you have to bear with me as I read my Sahtu version.

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Fiscal Wishes For The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

An Hon. Member

Can we hum along?

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Fiscal Wishes For The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, if I had a billion dollars, I will establish a territorial one-stop shop elders' secretariat. Listen to the elders' concerns. You are born to do that.

If I had a billion dollars, I will build a road to connect the Sahtu. Then we connect to the south and show them a thing or two. Would the Tuk people help, too?

If I had a billion dollars on the winter road, I would build a Tim's just to drive through. It's such a smooth trip. We won't even have to stop in or spill my double double, too.

If I had a billion dollars, I will enhance and develop the wilderness camp because you just can't separate the people from the land. That's cruel.

If I had a billion dollars, I will hire the elders to count the caribou, female and male, too. They know what's going on, so much more than me and you, and that's no bull.

If I had a million dollars, the regional superintendent will take a Sahtu regional forum. Finally as a region, the Sahtu will stand alone.

If I had a million dollars, more resources towards the housing core needs. I will have all the Sahtu houses with the utmost speed. It will leave some for the other communities, too.

If I had a billion dollars to support the traditional economies, hunters and trappers would fall under the most sought after choice of our snow activities.

If I had a million dollars, I wouldn't forget the forgotten people. I will fund the Metis Nation too from the university or college entry program and to end their frustration.

If I had a billion dollars, I will hold the Stanley Cup in a little town called Deline. It is the birthplace of the game. Then playoffs will happen there someday, too.

If I had a billion dollars, my colleagues will certainly get a day's funding plus per capita. We will be on equal footing to access health care.

If I had a billion dollars, Mr. Speaker, we would all be rich. Thank you.

---Applause

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Fiscal Wishes For The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Recommendations For Caribou Management

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member's statement today is about Caribou Forever. The report tells us that 40 to 86 percent of the caribou have disappeared over the past five years. Are the caribou restrictions addressing the real problem? Or, Mr. Speaker, do we just react rashly to an emergency situation that should have never started? Resident hunters are being singled out, Mr. Speaker. With the lack of numbers on how many caribou are really being taken, are we really solving the problem? We don't have solid numbers on the wolf population.

We don't know for sure what the real reason is why the caribou are disappearing, or is it really just a cyclical cycle that we have come into a low phase with the caribou numbers?

If the GNWT had been monitoring this problem all along, we might not be in this reacting position we are in today. We have invested millions of dollars into the commercial harvesting industry, Mr. Speaker, but now it is in jeopardy because we have to pull it right back in a fast reaction.

A number of hunters that I am aware of are outdoorsmen who like to get their five tags, but, Mr. Speaker, many of them say that they only take about two caribou anyway. So the problem I see is we have numbers in the sense of we know we are selling five tags, but we don't know how many we are really allowing to be shot.

I would like to suggest maybe a creative incentive, Mr. Speaker, in a better way of handling this by getting the hunters to return unused tags. I have a constituent who told me the other day that he has a little ring of caribou tags of about 50 of them that have accumulated well over a decade, Mr. Speaker. That a family has gone out, purchased the tags and there is proof in the pudding, Mr. Speaker, that the residents aren't necessarily shooting them all, so we don't know what the facts are.

In the situation that I see this, we could come up with smart solutions, Mr. Speaker. We could set a different rate for the third tag. We could set a different rate even higher for the fourth tag. This would be a fair and reasonable response for those hunters who go out there and use caribou to put food on their table.

I think we need to get buy-in on reduce and consumption in a voluntary way from GHL holders and resident hunters. If aboriginal organizations are in agreement, we could establish hunting corridors, Mr. Speaker. We could look at ways to make it less easy to get these caribou. There are things like the ice roads where people can pull up on Gordon Lake and just shoot caribou, unlike in the old days when they used to have to skidoo out for them. Now they pull up a truck and shoot them at will.

Mr. Speaker, at this time, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

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Recommendations For Caribou Management

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Hawkins , please conclude your statement.

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Recommendations For Caribou Management

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1499

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. If we had been more proactive than reactive, we could have started earlier to find gentler solutions to this problem. Maybe we could be reducing five tags down

to four. Mr. Speaker, just because two tags may be adequate for some hunters; it may not be adequate for all families, Mr. Speaker. So it seems clear to me we found a solution but yet we still don't know what the real problem is, so we are reacting.

We need to know what is happening before we put unfair and unreasonable restrictions on people. I have questions about the magic bullet theory, Mr. Speaker. What happens if a resident hunter is down to one tag, he shoots a caribou and it happens to shoot two caribou? Mr. Speaker, then we are creating a situation that is maybe not fair. The fact is that it keeps going back down to we don't know what the numbers are.

Mr. Speaker, we need to start opening the door to positive solutions to get down to the real facts, which is encouraging tags to come back instead of singling out some group to say, sorry, you can't shoot. I don't think we have solved anything by putting seven restrictions forward.

Mr. Speaker, in closing here, we maybe could start looking at using some of that $8.7 million that we are going to use to continually study this issue and maybe we could put it into the cost of food in some of these communities and help come out with positive solutions. Nobody really knows the facts here. No one wants to see the caribou go the way the buffalo went. The fact is, nobody wants to see wasted meat out there. Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. I will have questions for the Minister of ENR later today. Thank you.

---Applause

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Recommendations For Caribou Management

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1500

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Medical Escort Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1500

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last night, I received word a constituent had a massive heart attack and was medevaced to Edmonton. Later on, I spoke with the wife and she was very upset she could not travel with her loved one on a medevac plane. Mr. Speaker, this decision was made by the medevac doctor. However, she did indicate that she would be travelling to Edmonton today to be with her loved one.

Mr. Speaker, incidents like this are always hard on family and friends. I would like to say that my thoughts are with them. In closing, Mr. Speaker, my prayers are with the family and friends, but, more importantly, I wish the individual a speedy recovery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Medical Escort Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1500

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Recognition Of Arctic Winter Games Athletes And Organizers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1500

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last day of session today, I wanted to take this opportunity to recognize all of the athletes, coaches and chaperones from my constituency but not only my constituency, right across the North who will be attending the Arctic Winter Games in Alaska this year. There are a number of AWG participants. I think that is great that they have been chosen. I know they are going to do us proud. We are very proud of them, but we should extend congratulations. We are very proud of those who participated in all the regionals and territorials.

Not everybody was successful and is going to have the chance to go this time, but they may the next time around. I am sure they had a wonderful time and a great experience.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important for us to recognize that sports is the focus and is the focal point of the these games, but there is a very valuable cultural component and cultural exchange that is a lot of fun, Mr. Speaker, and I think is a great learning experience for many of the participants who are able to go. I was fortunate enough to participate in a couple of Arctic Winter Games, in Alaska and in the Northwest Territories, in 1988, 1990. Of course, my staff took pleasure in finding some old photos of my participation in those games. It wasn't pretty, Mr. Speaker. I can tell you that I was mostly hair in those days.

---Laughter

Obviously, that is not the case anymore. A lot of fun. A great time. Great memories. I still have many friends from across the North from those days. The other thing I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, is that there are a number of people involved who work with MACA and Sport North. For many of these people, it is not just a job, it is truly a pleasure. I think many of these folks would do the job for free. They've put in a lot of hard work and effort.

---Applause

Many of them volunteer. I want to send our thanks to those folks, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Recognition Of Arctic Winter Games Athletes And Organizers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1500

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Reports of standing and special committees. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Yakeleya .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1500

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to recognize a very special person in my life and a big supporter. She is awesome. She is my spouse, Cheryl Bonnetrouge here.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I also want to recognize a huge delegation from Deline on this MACA training. I can see Christine and Jane Modeste. I think I see Greg Bayha. I can't see further. I am not as tall as I used to be.

---Laughter

I would like to recognize some good people from MACA who are also in this program here and the instructor Judith Knapp who is doing a wonderful job. I think Mrs. Beck is up there, too. I am just going to leave it at that. There are other people I recognize, but I am short. Mr. Michael Neyelle also from Deline. He just popped his head out there. I want to say I love you, babe.

---Laughter

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Villeneuve .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also would like to welcome everybody in the gallery, especially one of my constituents, Wilfred Simon who is one of our community wellness workers. He is also a very active volunteer in our community. He volunteers a lot of his time to making a lot of organizations successful in holding a lot of community events. I am really appreciative for that, and I am sure the community thanks him a lot, too. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize Cecile Desjardins, chief of Behchoko's wife.

---Applause

I am glad to see the students here, Carol, and Judith Knapp. Welcome.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am honoured today to recognize my wife, Judy, up in the gallery...

---Applause

...and my sister-in-law, Debbie. Welcome.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize Judith Knapp. She is a wonderful friend and a constituent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for the Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod.

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a list here of people that are taking the governance course through MACA. I recognize a number of them from various communities across the North. There is a large delegation from Deline: Albertine Ayha, Greg Bahya, Jane Modeste-Goulet, Michael Neyelle, Christine Takazo, Charlotte Tetso, and Raymond Tutcho. From Wrigley, Gaylene Oskenekisses.

---Laughter

---Applause

Also from Fort McPherson, Leslie Blake.

---Applause

From Fort Resolution, Rabbit, Wilfred Simon.

---Applause

And someone that is close to Mr. Yakeleya 's heart, originally from Fort Providence, Cheryl Bonnetrouge.

---Applause

From Fort Providence, formally from Inuvik, she moved to Fort Providence to be close to her Deh Cho darling, Rosemary Vandell, finance officer for the Fort Providence housing.

---Applause

And, of course, Cecile Desjardins. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. McLeod. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize a couple of constituents in the gallery. Mr. Les Blake from Fort McPherson and Debbie Greenland from Aklavik. I'd also like to welcome everyone else in the gallery.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Gaylene Oskenekisses from Wrigley, as well, and welcome all her classmates. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche . Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think everybody's been recognized except for one person. I'd like to recognize a close friend, Ms. Janet Marshall, who is one of the instructors with the course.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1501

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . I'd also like to recognize a constituent of mine, Ms. Carol Beck, and welcome to anybody else who hasn't been recognized yet.

---Applause

Enjoy our proceedings this afternoon. Oral questions.

---Laughter

Oral questions. Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to be first at the trough.

---Applause

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Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

An Hon. Member

Make it worthwhile.

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Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Just with respect to the

article in the Yellowknifer on Wednesday, March 1st, with respect to gas guzzlers may pay more for registration. Which means that the larger vehicles, of which I have lots in my constituencies in the communities, we need those larger vehicles, they're saying that because people own larger vehicles that their cost of registration will be that much more. Is this true, Mr. Speaker?

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Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister for Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Return To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the newspaper

article referenced some initiatives that were taken by our Department of Transportation to look at reducing energy use. As part of the energy conservation action plan that was tabled in this House by our Premier , our intent with that initiative was to look at the concept of finding a way of rewarding people who used energy-efficient vehicles. It was not intended to look at increasing the cost of registration for vehicles that are of high consumption, but rather to look at what can be done to encourage use of vehicles that use less energy or less gas.

It's something that we're looking at, or investigating, and have looked at other jurisdictions, but are moving away from this whole concept. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I was just wondering who sits on this committee because the last time I drove to Fort Simpson, there wasn't a plug-in half way where I could plug in my hybrid vehicle, Mr. Speaker.

---Laughter

So how far along has this plan progressed? I hope it's not something that's going to happen April 1st here. Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I wasn't aware the Member had a hybrid vehicle that he could plug in.

Mr. Speaker, we have taken the opportunity to review a number of initiatives across the government to see how we could incorporate better use of our facilities, our vehicles, and ways we can save on energy. This is one of them. This is something we thought might be of use. We've looked at it. We've looked at what's happening in other jurisdictions. We're not satisfied it's going to work all that well, so we are moving away from it. So it's not going to happen April 1st. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to get that clarified because there are lots of misconceptions out there, especially, like I said, in the small communities who depend...Our hybrid vehicle is the four-by-four.

---Laughter

Just with that, is the government even looking at hybrids themselves before they start forcing other people to move to smaller vehicles? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, yes, we are looking at ways we can do things better and more efficient. We're looking at trying to incorporate some hybrid vehicles. We do have plug-ins in the communities that allow us to use them. We're looking at smart programs, smart driving programs for our employees that will require them to shut off their vehicles rather than leaving them running. We're looking at putting remote heaters in some of our larger equipment so they don't have to idle for long periods of time. So there's a number of things we're doing.

We're also trying to incorporate alternate energy systems for heat in some of our new buildings and we're looking at pellet stoves and all these types of initiatives. We're trying to do a number of things and this was one of them. We've, as I said earlier, moved away from it. It was not an attempt to increase the fees, as the paper has interpreted it, but was rather to target trying to reduce the fees for registration for people that are taking the initiative to buy or have vehicles that are energy efficient. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Question 498-15(4): Energy Conservation Initiative For Vehicles

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1502

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation not provided)

Mr. Speaker, the community I work with experienced firsthand the power outage in late January of this year, at which time there were no means of transportation in and out of the community, Mr. Speaker. The community airport does not have a backup generator. This is becoming a serious concern to the community members, Mr. Speaker. This puts the public at risk when the power goes out. No means of air transportation to and from the communities during these emergency crises. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister of Transportation , can the Minister

explain the emergency measures or plans to deal with these power outages in isolated community airports? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister responsible for Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, in the case of the communities where they don't have emergency backup generators for their airports, we expect the communities to use the flare pots that are available. In the event that there is a power outage or an emergency, that is the process that's in place and that is acceptable for the federal legislation in the airports act. Thank you.

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Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think we need to go beyond that. Emergency crises in the community need to be really seriously looked into. Where I'd like to ask the Minister, can the Minister explain why the communities of Wekweeti, Gameti, and Whati don't have any backup generators for their airports as part of their emergency measures during these power outages? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, federal legislation doesn't require us to have backup generators in each community. Navigation Canada moved away from providing backup generators some time ago. The acceptable process is to use flare pots, and the flare pots are available in each of the communities that the Member has referenced and that is the acceptable process. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has been brought to my attention, when I was visiting communities early February, that this became a bigger issue than what the Minister is outlining here. So I'd like to ask again, the Minister can commit to this House on the emergency plans, if his department can look into, he says there's federal legislation that we have to follow, but at the same time legislation can be amended, as well. Can the Minister commit in this House to look into emergency measures to deal with power outages in the communities that have identified to have a backup generator? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, each airport facility operates under federal legislation and is required to have an emergency plan. There are only four communities, I believe, that have backup generators and that's Yellowknife, Hay River, Inuvik, and Norman Wells. In the case of the smaller communities, the flare pots are the acceptable process and fall within the legislation that we are required to follow and that's what we use in the case of an emergency. We don't have a plan to put in emergency generators in any of these communities. In fact, the communities that had the emergency generators, in the case of Fort Smith, these were shut down and are being removed. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Jackson Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand where the department is going with this, but, at the same time, I think we need to take into consideration the communities' concerns, especially coming from the chiefs of each community. This is becoming a problem in the community. More of a challenge in the community through, during the power outage when there's an emergency crisis really there is no means of air transportation. But he's saying that there's a backup.

I'd like to find out, he's saying that, the Minister is saying really there are no plans in place to deal with the federal legislation, but I'm asking the department if they're willing to investigate further to look into the emergency backup plan where Yellowknife, Hay River, Smith or different major communities do have them. I think we need to recognize isolated communities. We are the communities, as well. I think the Minister should really look into that. Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty . Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, we are following the regulatory requirements under the Airports Act, the federal airports legislation. There is no requirement for this government to put in backup generators into the communities. We really don't have the resources to put in backup generators in the communities, in the airports, and we don't really have the resources to provide the maintenance and repairs this would all entail. So we don't have the investment that's required to do so. We have a plan that's acceptable to the federal government and that's the means that we are moving forward on this and providing emergency landing with flare pots. There is nothing wrong with that, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Question 499-15(3): Emergency Power Supply For Community Airports

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1503

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Referring back to my Member's statement today, I will have questions for

the Minister of ENR . Mr. Speaker, specific to the groups of GHL, resident, commercial harvesters, and non-residents, can the Minister tell us today, by breaking out individual groups, how many caribou each individual group takes yearly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister responsible for ENR , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we can tell you how many tags are given to the outfitters, how many resident tags we issue, and in terms of the subsistence aboriginal harvest, we don't have any clear numbers. Thank you.

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Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I personally think that's a shame that we don't know solid numbers of what we're talking about. So, Mr. Speaker, referring back to my Member's statement, I had spoken about a couple of options before we implement this strategy. So I'll name them quickly. First, let's get the real numbers out before we react. Second, let's create a strategy to have unused tags returned to the department as in a deposit or return fee. Third, let's create a progressive step so people can get a third and fourth tag at an increased cost. Would the Minister consider these as reasonable steps to consider before we implement this strategy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have the caribou strategy, which is a longer-term document. We have the interim measures, which as well speaks to some immediate actions that we're going to take. We already have committed and we have the resources to do the counts of the animals this coming spring/summer. As well, we're going to look at wolf predation and we will gather again in the fall when the information is in and we will see what other options possibly have to be looked at, once we know the numbers and if they've been verified or they've changed.

I indicated when we started this process that these interim measures are not a singular event, but this is a process we're engaging that's going to be evolving in the coming months. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again the Minister has reaffirmed that we're implementing a strategy with...(inaudible)...nobody wants wasted meat, whether they're a GHL holder or they're a resident or a non-resident. Nobody wants to make honest people do dishonest acts, in case we hit a cow instead of a bull. Mr. Speaker, what is the Minister going to do when the mistake factor happens when someone either shoots a cow by accident or they shoot two caribou when they only have one tag? What are we going to do about the honest factor? Thank you. Honest mistake factor, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do, in fact, have numbers. We have enough information that under the precautionary principle, we are compelled and I believe are compelled to act and err on the side of caution and conservation, which is what we are doing. In this process and time of transition of course, Mr. Speaker, we are going to recognize there may be some start-up glitches and an occasional case of mistaken identity. This is an issue of working with the users and the stakeholders to sustain the herds and to educate all the people involved on the new processes and we intend to approach it that way. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I have to say caution should have started maybe five years ago because we have declining herds and the Minister's document basically tells me the last survey we had done on the caribou herd was in 2000 and some had not been surveyed for well over a decade. Mr. Speaker, we have two herds that have not even been surveyed, so we're still dealing with unknowns. So yet again we're acting without knowing the facts. So, Mr. Speaker, noting all my objections and noting the objections of fellow Members like Mr. Villeneuve , Mr.

Speaker, the Minister is seeing all this opposition, so would he consider bringing these regulations back to MLAs and discuss these before they implement them in the back room sometime in the next couple months? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1504

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we shared with the Members the nine pages of interim measures that laid out in great detail the consultation that we have undertaken with the co-management boards up and down the valley. We've met with the barren-land outfitters, the Metis from the South Slave, the Yellowknives, as many other people as we can. But we've been working very, very closely and we have done due diligence when it comes to consultation and we are going to continue to do that. There's been, for the most part, significant support and recognition that there is an issue and a problem and that we've taken the right

measured steps and we have a plan that's going to allow us to move forward. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Question 500-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for Mr. Dent as the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut. Mr. Speaker, our Workers' Compensation Board spends dollars, significant dollars, and retains a substantial legal talent to apply and interpret the rules and implement the procedures that hit holes when considering the cases of injured workers who bring claims before it. But Mr. Speaker, one injured worker at least has had to endure significant procedural steps and a significantly long period of time in order to get, potentially, some resolve.

The trouble is, Mr. Speaker, that he had to go to the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories, not the Workers' Compensation Board's own, as I say, I think very well funded and very largely staffed legal and appeals tribunal. Mr. Speaker, why did this worker have to go all the way to the Supreme Court to hold the WCB accountable?

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Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's worth noting that in 2001 this worker, through the worker's advisor, approached the governance council and asked that a ruling of the appeals tribunal be reviewed. The governance council at that time agreed that it needed to be reviewed and it was the governance council itself that directed the appeals tribunal to rehear the case, but the appeals tribunal felt that it wasn't appropriate for it to rehear the case and, based on that, it got bounced back. So the worker followed the process of going to the courts and having the court rule that the appeals tribunal should again hear the case. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, what actions will the governance council of the WCB take to address the shortcomings in its chronic pain policy, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the time this case was taken to the courts and the policy that applied to the case goes back to before there was a clear policy in place from the WCB. The WCB has, since the Martin case in the Atlantic provinces in 2004, adopted a policy around chronic pain. What they have done since adopting that policy is direct their council to approach the courts to ensure that that policy is in compliance with the Charter and all court decisions. They have committed, at their most recent meeting, to revise the policy if anything is found wanting in it.

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Further Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Bill Braden

Great Slave

So, Mr. Speaker, the court is going to come up with rules regarding chronic pain and how it's applied, not our own governance council, our own potentially Legislative Assembly, our own stakeholders. Is this responsible governance to go back to the court to tell them, to ask them to set our policy? Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I didn't say that the courts were going to set the policy. I said that the governance council had set a policy in place and they were going to the courts to seek a reference to ensure that their policy is compliant with the Charter of Rights and is in compliance with previous rulings of other courts in Canada. I want to be perfectly clear that the WCB policy does allow for chronic pain sufferers to be allocated a pension, whether a temporary or partial pension or total disability pension. Those are all possible right now.

What the WCB is doing, though, is making sure that the policy is entirely compliant with all the rules that would govern a policy of this sort in Canada.

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Further Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, would the Minister or would the WCB, through the Minister, make available to this Assembly, and to the stakeholders, and the public, the draft or the proposed policy that it is going to submit to the courts to see indeed if the policy fits the needs of the stakeholders and not only the courts, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said earlier, this is not a draft policy at this point. It was adopted by the governance council in 2004 and I would point out that the governance council is made up of stakeholders from the people in the Northwest Territories. Business representatives, employer representatives, employee representatives make up the governance council. The answer to the direct question is, yes, I will make sure the Member and all Members get copies of the policy.

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Further Return To Question 501-15(4): Wcb Chronic Pain Policy

Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1505

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are to Mr. Dent and it's following up on my Member's statement. Mr. Speaker, we have a situation here where businesses like Tim Horton's, McDonald's, Quizno's, Pizza Hut and all those businesses that are in Yellowknife have seen the increase of WCB rates at maximum levels for four years in a row. That's more than double over four years. I have, in front of me, assessment rates for the last three years for all the other categories that WCB has, and no one has seen that kind of increase four years in a row.

They have been doing everything they can to get the attention of the WCB Governance Council and the Minister. They have held meetings; they've had briefings; they've done everything they can to have them re-look at what can be done to improve this. I understand they're meeting as we speak and I am not at all confident that we are going to be able to achieve any resolution or any positive feedback or as the Minister can tell here today otherwise. So I'd like to know what steps he's prepared to take to work with the governance council and see if there could be any reprieve for this group, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The Honourable Charles Dent , Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board.

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Return To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First off I would like to point out that everybody in the Northwest Territories, every employer in the Territories has typically seen an increase over the past three or four years. Until 2003, because of good investments, the accident fund was what was called over funded. The governance council thought that in order to reduce their over funded position and to give some money back to employers, that they would offer subsidies. So up until 2003 there was a 35 percent discount. Mr.

Speaker, that means that if your rates were $1 per hundred that you were paying, after the discount, 65 cents per hundred. Between 2003 and 2006 that discount was taken off. It was reduced over time. That means that somebody's rate has gone from, or apparent rate, has gone from 65 cents a hundred to $1 a hundred. If you look at it thinking that 65 cents is your starting point, you've seen a 54 percent increase in your rates.

So what has happened, that is something that is outside what is seen as or what has happened in terms of accident records to change rates. Over the same period of time, the accidents that have been seen in different categories have caused them to go up. Now, the board has a policy that changes of more than 25 percent will not be allowed. That's a policy decision. It's one that the board has instituted in order to make sure that sudden changes aren't seen.

I'm advised that if they had actually allowed the rates to go to where they should be for this category, that they would be in excess of $4 instead of at $2.93 per hundred. So right now, the board has already made a policy decision to make sure that the amount is, or that this group is, protected from a rate increase.

I think that the governance council members are meeting with the quick service restaurants as we speak, I believe, and I have no doubt that the same question will be put to them there. This is a policy decision that the governance council could take. They could take a position that a lesser amount of increase was allowed and I have no doubt that it is a question that they will consider. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As always, the Minister is burning up valuable question period time defending the status quo and not answering my question. Mr. Speaker, if he wishes, I'd be happy to go over the whole list. You know, I could do that just as well. My question is very simple, Mr. Speaker. Even with the subsidy, there are no categories that I have in front of me that have seen a 25 percent maximum increase four years in a row. These groups are stuck, and there's nobody telling them what they can do to get out. There's no way for them to get out of a different category.

There's no explanation as how they can improve so they can graduate from that category. There's just no option. It's like, you have to pay and pay up. There's no means of appeal. The Minister knows already that that outcome is not positive, but I want to give him a chance to explain that. So I'd like to know, and I didn't get the confirmation with the governance council today, would the Minister direct the GC or talk to them to review the whole cross-subsidization process so that no other group could see maximum increases four years in a row? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly I will request the governance council to consider that situation or that position and ask that they, at their next meeting, consider it. Thanks.

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Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister ask the governance council to at least take a leadership role? I mean, if he's just going to ask the governance council and have the governance council come back and say, I could do that job just as well. You know? I could write a letter to the governance council and he could come back and say sorry, Ms. Lee , I considered your option and it ain't going to happen. So I'd like to know what he can do as the Minister of WCB responsible for the portfolio and who'd have to answer to if businesses go down, what's he prepared to do as a Minister to make some changes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): Wcb Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1506

The Acting Speaker

David Ramsay

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 1507

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I certainly hope that we don't see these businesses go down. I enjoy being able to access the services and products that they provide as much as anybody else. Mr. Speaker, just as insurance on a car is a cost of doing business, so is insurance for your employees. I've probably put $60,000 or $70,000 more into the pockets of insurance companies than I've ever claimed back for my car and I think that we're going to have to recognize that there are costs to doing business. I'd be happy to, as I said, direct the governance council to consider this.

I think all of the stakeholders have to be involved in considering an approach that the Member is suggesting, because it is a zero sum game. It takes X number of dollars to operate the WCB and look after the injured workers and so if one group is paying less, another group has to pay more. So I would be happy to ensure that this