Debates of Oct. 18th, 2010

This is page numbers 5095 - 5126 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was work .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 49-16(5): Devolution

Minister’s Statement 50-16(5): Recognition Of Small Business Week

Minister’s Statement 51-16(5): Aboriginal Student Achievement

Minister’s Statement 52-16(5): Family Violence

Minister’s Statement 53-16(5): Minister Absent From The House

Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Anti-Poverty Summit

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Hazardous Conditions At Bompas Elementary School Playground

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Public Housing Rental Arrears

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Public Housing Rental Arrears

Public Housing Program Guidelines

Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Anti-Poverty Strategy

Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Deh Cho Bridge Project

Tabled Document 85-16(5): Deh Cho Drum Article: State Of School Playground Sparks Parents’ Concern

Appointment Of Two Human Rights Commission Members

Appointment Of Information And Privacy Commissioner

Referral Of Tabled Document 75-16(5), Response Of The Joint Review Panel For The Mackenzie Gas Project On The Federal And Territorial Governments’ Interim Response To “foundation For A Sustainable Northern Future”

Bill 12:

An Act To Amend The Liquor Act

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:40 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 49-16(5): Devolution

Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The devolution of decision-making authorities over public lands and waters from Canada to the Northwest Territories has been a matter of debate and negotiation for much of my lifetime.

Our strong belief is that NWT residents must have the capacity and authority to protect and manage public lands in the Northwest Territories to ensure that our Territory’s abundant resources are developed in a sustainable and responsible manner, and that NWT residents realize the financial and economic benefits from development in their Territory.

This government has worked to put in place resources, tools and processes to prepare and advance our government, our people and our Territory to the point where we now have a Devolution and Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement-in-Principle within our reach.

On Friday it was reported in the media that the chief negotiators for Canada and the Northwest Territories have initialled a draft AIP and recommended it to their principals. Regional aboriginal governments have been invited and supported to participate in the negotiations leading up to this draft AIP.

The draft AIP is a substantial document and our negotiators have provided until October 31st for all

parties to consider the agreement and determine if they want to proceed as signatories.

In the meantime, I would like to provide NWT residents with an update on the progress that has been made on this file in recent months.

Mr. Speaker, early in this government I suggested devolution could be put on the back burner if we could not find enough common interest to continue negotiations. We found this common purpose at our regional aboriginal leaders table.

An inclusive negotiation process has progressed over the last two years involving representatives from all aboriginal governments, as well as the governments of Canada and the Northwest Territories.

We have actively worked in this forum towards a devolution and resource revenue sharing agreement that is in the interest of all NWT residents.

In September a draft agreement-in-principle was brought forward by our chief negotiators built on an agreement presented jointly to Canada in 2007 by the GNWT and four of our Territory’s aboriginal governments.

While a draft AIP is not binding, it provides the necessary parameters for negotiations leading to a final agreement on devolution and, at long last, the transfer of authority over public lands and waters in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, I have said all along that without devolution, our future remains more of the same: remaining dependent on Ottawa to make the major decisions about resource development in our Territory while watching the revenues from that development continue to flow south.

We have waited a long time to consider this critical step in our political development. We are at a sensitive and critical juncture in this process.

Regional aboriginal governments are determining their participation in a draft AIP. Members of this House are being briefed. It is important that all of us understand the magnitude and positive potential of this draft AIP.

In the weeks ahead, this government will provide more information on the AIP and its provisions. However, while a draft is under consideration by parties, I ask that we all respect and support the established process. Thank you.

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Minister’s Statement 49-16(5): Devolution

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Minister’s Statement 50-16(5): Recognition Of Small Business Week

Ministers’ Statements

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is Small Business Week, an opportunity to recognize and celebrate entrepreneurs and their businesses across the Northwest Territories. I would also like to recognize Co-op Week and the 16 cooperatives that serve residents in the Northwest Territories.

Small businesses play a vital role in the economy of our communities and our Territory. They provide products, services, knowledge and skills that are the foundation of sustainable local economies and enhance our quality of life. Mr. Speaker, spend some time in any of our communities and you will find the heart of local economies lies with our entrepreneurs and the small and medium-sized businesses they operate.

As jurisdictions across Canada celebrate Small Business Week I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the contributions that these businesses make to the Northwest Territories economy. From the one person home-based business to the entrepreneur who took an idea and turned it into a business employing dozens of Northerners, our small and medium-sized enterprises consistently punch above their weight when it comes to the impact they have on our economy.

These businesses create jobs and wealth in all sectors and in all five regions of our Territory. Ranging from traditional economic activities like trapping and basket making to manufacturing and agriculture, we see the residents of the Northwest Territories taking advantage of the economic opportunities this land has to offer.

The Government of the Northwest Territories understands the vital role our small and medium-sized businesses play in keeping our economy vibrant and strong. That is why we have increased our investment in the Support for Entrepreneurs and Economic Development Policy to $3.5 million for 2010-2011. That is why we have developed programs like the Tourism Product Diversification and Marketing Program, which has seen this government distribute more the $4 million in assistance to tourism businesses since 2007.

Mr. Speaker, one of the five goals of the 16th Legislative Assembly is to have a diversified economy that provides all communities and regions with opportunities and choices. It is an important goal and it is one this government remains focused on. Through our continued commitment to develop programs and services that help our small and medium-sized businesses succeed, and through the skill, intelligence and hard work of our entrepreneurs, we can realize that goal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 50-16(5): Recognition Of Small Business Week

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister’s Statement 51-16(5): Aboriginal Student Achievement

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment is pleased to share news about the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative that focuses on increasing accomplishments of aboriginal students across the Northwest Territories.

The success of all students is important for the Northwest Territories. However, aboriginal students have been lagging behind non-aboriginal students. While we are making progress on this challenge, we nonetheless want to enhance the improvement.

Mr. Speaker, the initiative’s long-term goal is to develop and implement a territorial plan to help eliminate the achievement gap between aboriginal and non-aboriginal students. We need a plan to ensure all children have the opportunity to develop the skills, knowledge and ability needed for the future. I believe this plan will help us achieve a well-educated population able to meet the needs of our future economic well-being.

The Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative Working Group was established in April 2009. Partners include Aurora College, district education councils, aboriginal governments, the NWT Literacy Council, the NWT Teachers’ Association, the Native Women’s Association, and the departments of Justice and Health and Social Services. The working group helped direct the initiative’s focus and developed the following priorities:

early childhood and child care;

student and family support;

literacy;

and

aboriginal language curriculum and resource development.

Mr. Speaker, with the assistance from the divisional education councils, I am holding a Minister’s forum in each region this school year. We are using the working group’s priorities as the basis to facilitate discussion and partnerships with and between local and regional aboriginal and education leaders.

The first regional meeting took place in the Sahtu region from September 28th to the 30th . It went very

well and had a great turnout. Many community and regional leaders attended all three days of discussions, including my colleague MLA Mr. Norman Yakeleya . The level of engagement from the participants was outstanding, with support for building community connections as a common theme.

Community forums held on the third day of meetings gave special attention to looking at what can be done at the local level. Aboriginal leaders and educators from the same communities identified education issues and developed plans of action. Attendees made a commitment to start moving on plans and working toward short-term goals.

We intend to keep Members informed of our progress as we work towards healthier, successful aboriginal students and informed, involved parents and community partners.

We also want to commend the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative Working Group for developing the important priorities to improve student success.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to participating in more discussion on aboriginal student success over the next several months at the regional Minister’s forums. We have already made progress and I’m eager to see our students improve even more in the future. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 51-16(5): Aboriginal Student Achievement

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Minister’s Statement 52-16(5): Family Violence

Ministers’ Statements

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Family violence is the deliberate use of force to control another person. Abusers do not just lose their tempers or simply have problems with anger management, they choose to hurt and control their victims.

Family violence is a community issue; it takes a community response. I would like to highlight two initiatives that the Department of Health and Social Services has spearheaded with the Coalition Against Family Violence as a part of the NWT Family Violence Action Plan Phase II.

Mr. Speaker, the first is the recent release of Supporting Northern Women. This curriculum is a sustainable in-house training resource for front-line shelter workers. It is also useful to any professional working with clients who have experienced family violence. Developing this curriculum took a collaborative effort between non-government organizations and government to build capacity for shelter workers across the NWT. Our shelters provide emergency housing, safety planning and help with the applications for emergency protection orders. Because of them, women and children have a safe place to live while they think about what their next best step is.

Mr. Speaker, the second initiative that I would like to draw your attention to is the recent work undertaken by the Yellowknife Interagency Family Violence Protocol Committee. This committee

works to develop a more coordinated response to adult victims of family violence and is made up of representatives from various government departments and front-line service provider agencies.

Mr. Speaker, in 2009 the committee began to implement the use of the Ontario Domestic Assault Risk Assessment in family violence cases, known as ODARA. ODARA is a very simple to use risk assessment tool that calculates whether a man who assaulted his partner will assault her again in the future. It is useful in safety planning with women and can be used during bail hearings and court processes. ODARA allows service providers from a wide variety of backgrounds to talk about risk in the same way. They can make more consistent and informed decisions about the best way to help clients.

Strong leadership is important to this project. Since 2009, 99 front-line workers, 140 RCMP members and 17 Crown prosecutors from across the NWT have been trained to use ODARA. Another train-the-trainer session will be held later this month. This tool will also be useful with other initiatives that are being developed, like the program for men who use violence.

Mr. Speaker, family violence is a serious matter. It is important for all of us to send the message that it is not acceptable. It does not happen by accident. Abusive people know exactly what they are doing. We need to treat family violence as deliberate. Wellness is a goal identified under our strategic document A Foundation for Change, more specifically increasing support and services for people who experience family violence.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased with the work that is being done to fight family violence. I know we are on the right track and are making a real difference in the lives of the victims and their families. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 52-16(5): Family Violence

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 53-16(5): Minister Absent From The House

Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Michael Miltenberger will be absent from the House today, tomorrow and Wednesday to attend the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment meeting in St. John’s, Newfoundland. Thank you.

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Minister’s Statement 53-16(5): Minister Absent From The House

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to address the issue of common sense in health care delivery decisions and the opportunity to save money and improve outcomes.

Starting with an example, my constituent`s daughter is currently a student in Victoria. She has the basic NWT health coverage which is available to students. She has a history of stage 4 cancer beginning at age seven and her survival is considered a bit of a miracle. Now 27, she learned that because of treatment received, she is at risk for developing a secondary cancer. She was asked to go to Vancouver this fall for a follow-up at the B.C. Cancer Agency.

Medical Travel advised that the ferry trip, food and accommodation would not be provided since she was not a resident in Yellowknife. Further inquiries to the Inuvik office confirmed that no funding would be provided. They did note that if she was a resident in Yellowknife, her flights to and from Edmonton would be covered, as well as some living expenses. Mr. Speaker, this would have cost far more than a return ferry trip to Vancouver. Where is the common sense here?

Inuvik confirmed that this same scenario occurred to a student in Grande Prairie last summer. How is it that students are not properly covered when they go away to school? There is a similar lack of common sense in the situation with the MS patient in Hay River that is profiled by my colleague for Hay River South.

Mr. Speaker, there is a desperate need for some flexibility and horse sense here. Everyone understands the needs for rules and routine procedures, but why can we not institute a process for bumping up decisions when there are clearly options for reduced cost and better medical outcomes such as prevention, early diagnosis or treatment?

Every one of my colleagues have been frustrated with situations brought to the Minister where savings, prevention and better medical treatment could have been achieved, but because it was against the rules, the Minister claims she cannot make an exception. At a minimum, we need a process that gives a patient the option of coming up with cheaper medical travel when travel is needed, and the opportunity for system approval of this. Savings might be from a closer location for treatment, a less costly though perhaps a bit slower form of travel, or just staying at a friend’s, with compensation that is much reduced from that of a hotel room.

Mr. Speaker, let’s put some common sense and flexibility into our health system. Let’s change our preference from bureaucracy to a strong focus on prevention, resolution of medical issues and opportunities for reduced costs. Mahsi.

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Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously the days are getting much shorter and the weather is turning cold. Snow is on the ground both here in Yellowknife and at the Mackenzie River crossing at Fort Providence.

Back in July when it was much warmer, Mr. Krutko , Mr. Abernethy and I had the opportunity to tour the Deh Cho Bridge Project in Fort Providence. Work was continuing on the piers and the approaches, but there was no steel anywhere on site. We were told then that the steel would be showing up sometime in mid-September, but it didn’t.

It is now the third week of October. I would like to know when exactly the steel will show up in Fort Providence. The Minister and the department both are still adamant that the bridge would be operational in November of next year. I hope they are correct.

The reason I remain so concerned, Mr. Speaker, is that if we miss the date, it will cost us at a minimum $8 million in debt servicing cost and, Mr. Speaker, aren’t we expecting costs to construct this 1,100 metre steel bridge in Arctic conditions to go up?

Mr. Speaker, when talking about potential costs to this government, where exactly is the construction audit at? Will the Minister be reporting back to the standing committee or this House on the findings of that construction audit? It was supposed to take two months and it has been six months. We haven’t heard anything. If we are paying for costs for that audit, has it cost us more than we budgeted for?

I recently visited the Department of Transportation’s website and I didn’t find a

summary or a breakdown of funding sources for the annual operation of the bridge. Mr. Speaker, originally the government stated it would commit $1.8 million for the Deh Cho Bridge Project, which was the actual cost to operate the ferry and maintain the ice crossing at Fort Providence on an annual basis, and the decision of the last government, which would be to commit another $2 million annually to the project.

With the delays in getting the project complete, these numbers have changed. Mr. Speaker, so have projected toll revenues. Just last September the Minister and department stated that toll revenues would be $5.1 million per year, and just recently that number had fallen to $3.2 million. What was a $3.8 million contribution, Mr. Speaker,

has risen to over $5 million. The real economics of the project...

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Ramsay , your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

The real economics of the project should also be put on the Transportation website as well, and I’ll have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you.

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Deh Cho Bridge Project

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Anti-Poverty Summit

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recently had the good fortune to attend the very first NWT Anti-Poverty Summit. I was one of about 80 participants; participants representing 20 different NWT communities and 29 NWT organizations. This event was organized, planned and developed by two social justice non-government organizations: Alternatives North and the NWT YWCA.

The summit explored the issue of poverty in the NWT, what it is and what it is not, looked at the efforts currently being taken to tackle poverty, which ones work and which ones do not, and determined how we can move forward on anti-poverty.

Attendees heard from well-known advocates and leaders in the field, as well as a federal politician who has a motion to eradicate poverty before the House of Commons, from each other, and, last but not least, from comedian Mary Walsh, a long-time advocate against poverty in our country. It was two days of intense discussion by people passionate about their work and committed to improving the lives of NWT residents who have to endure poverty.

The summit

summary, Mr. Speaker, states that eliminating poverty must become the government’s top priority and that everyone must be involved for any actions to succeed. The development of a government Anti-Poverty Strategy called for in the motion passed in this House in February is of paramount importance and it must be based in legislation, not policy. Without an anti-poverty act, we can expect that long-term coordinated efforts and accountability will both be lacking, and the development of any strategy or legislation must involve all parties. It will not succeed if it’s developed in isolation by government.

Mr. Speaker, a report will be prepared with the priorities identified and the recommendations made during the summit. That report will be presented to this Assembly in the near future. It will provide a thorough review of where we are in relation to

poverty in the NWT, and it should be a starting point for further work for the next steps.

In May of this year, in a statement to the House, the Premier committed to the development of an overarching discussion paper. It’s now time for the Premier and this government to act on those words and begin the work that will eliminate poverty in the NWT. I will have questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Anti-Poverty Summit

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, have some issues in regard to the devolution process which has been reached between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government with no involvement of the Dene and Metis up the Mackenzie Valley.

The whole intention of having those agreements in the Dene/Metis claim was because the Dene/Metis wanted to have some assurances that they were going to be able to negotiate elements of those agreements.

Mr. Speaker, the intention of the devolution of oil and gas and minerals and the transfer to the government of provincial-like authorities is to manage those resources in the interests of all Northerners and all regions in the Northwest Territories, including First Nations. At the same time, First Nations can be assured that the transfer will not abrogate or derogate from any existing treaty, aboriginal rights or land claims, and also the protection under

Section 35 of the Canadian Constitution.

By excluding the aboriginal groups from these negotiations and now going forward with simply the majority of two, which should consist of eight aboriginal organizations in the Northwest Territories, is basically a movement with a minority consensus and not having the majority of members on side or even, in this case, a simple minority.

We’ve talked about working together with our partners, working together with the people of the Northwest Territories. When the aboriginal people

of the Northwest Territories, who make up 50 percent of our population and are talking about self-government negotiations for land claims and the implementation of existing land claims which clearly stipulate in the land claims agreements the Government of the Northwest Territories shall negotiate with those aboriginal groups when it comes to the Northern Accord and devolution.

At the appropriate time I will have questions for the Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to also talk about the draft agreement-in-principle for devolution and resource revenue sharing that has been achieved between the federal government negotiators and the GNWT negotiators.

As long as I have been a Member of this House, the Regular Members, and maybe even the Cabinet Ministers, have literally ground on whoever the leader was to advance the agenda of the Northwest Territories when it comes to resource revenue sharing and devolution. We told Joe Handley that he should be like Ghandi and walk to Ottawa to make a statement how we should have northern resources controlled in the North, as the federal government continues to be the gatekeeper on the development and management of our resources, and how as development proceeds and advances that our chances of getting the kind of deal that we need would actually probably diminish.

When we look at an opportunity like the Mackenzie Gas Project that’s ahead of us, and you look at many other projects, and you look at the royalties that those kinds of projects could generate and how we in the North could share in the benefits of that, it’s pretty exciting and it’s pretty amazing.

I am not here to say that I represent anybody other than my constituency and we haven’t even had a chance to discuss this yet, but listening to Mr. Krutko it sounded like he was representing the voice of the aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories. I’m here as an MLA and I’m not here to collectively speak for anybody. I will say that we have an opportunity before us. It is a draft. It is an agreement-in-principle. It is not a final document. I think it would be responsible on all of our parts to look at this very seriously.

I, for one -- as Mr. Krutko often says -- would like to congratulate the government and congratulate this Premier for putting together...

---Applause

...a credible team of negotiators that went to Ottawa and negotiated those federal negotiators right to the edge of their mandate and came back here with something for us to talk about. We’ve got something to talk about. Let’s show the leadership we won’t ruin this or blow this thing up before it even gets out of the gate.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m very glad to see that after almost 30 years of work there’s an agreement-in-principle for devolution of our lands, resources and royalties. The Northwest Territories has hit a huge milestone. There will be many opportunities for the people to come out of this.

We have always talked about our land and our future, but the federal government has been controlling all major developments that take place. The federal government also takes all the royalties. That’s just wrong. Millions of dollars every year, dollars that should be supporting our government and aboriginal governments.

We must not forget the control of our lands and resources, and regulating access to our land, and ensuring that the environment is protected. I believe we can do a better job than the federal government.

Doing this work means hundreds of new jobs in the Northwest Territories and all the benefits that will come with them. There will be opportunities for our people. In the long run I believe Northerners will be doing even the highly technical jobs that would be filled with Southerners first. Growth means opportunity.

We’re still years from getting that control, that money that those jobs when the agreement-in-principle is signed. Signing this is the next step toward finally getting this job done. We need to have the courage to move ahead, the courage to make improvements, to make the deal and improvements for all of our people.

I’m in favour of the AIP. I believe we can work together with aboriginal governments on a better deal for all of us. There’s just great potential in this benefit for all communities.

We just finished doing our business plans. We all know how tight this government’s finances are. We know how hard it’s going to make the needs of our communities for jobs, education and health care. In the long run devolution can help us meet these needs and we must be thinking about the long run, not just the short-term political agendas.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Hazardous Conditions At Bompas Elementary School Playground

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to speak to you about the school playground in Fort Simpson. This fall, at the start of the school year, many parents and children at Bompas Elementary and Thomas Simpson School in Fort Simpson were concerned about the state of the schools’ playground. It seems that, especially over the summer months, the playground was used by drinkers, marked up by graffiti artists, and generally vandalized. There were broken liquor bottles on the ground and rude pictures marked on the buildings and equipment. There was litter and garbage everywhere.

Some parents and children helped to clean the playground. Local school staff and Public Works and Services staff have made a good effort to get the playground clean and ready for the start of the school year. Public Works and Services and the RCMP are looking at ways to increase the security of the playground so that it is not used for drinking parties in the summer.

The parents group met with myself and Mr. Sean Whelly, the mayor of Fort Simpson, and detailed their dissatisfaction with the state of the school grounds. I did take the time to inform the Minister of Education and the Minister of Public Works and Services for immediate action to address these concerns. I’m glad that they were both responsive and corrected some items, as well as a big thanks to the staff of the school and parents who saw a need and made the effort to respond.

The question remains: How could we have let our school playground and facilities become this littered and in a mess? There must be a plan in place to ensure that this never happens again. The community takes pride in our school; our government must recognize this as well. At the appropriate time I will raise this issue with our Ministers.

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Hazardous Conditions At Bompas Elementary School Playground

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to speak about the draft devolution resource revenue sharing deal.

Imagine my surprise that parts of this significant landmark for the Northwest Territories was quoted on CBC last Friday. Imagine, we could be at the very brink of moving closer to a provincial type of

government and we don’t know yet 100 percent if all the aboriginal governments are on side with us. Are we going to initial this historical deal with or without them? Is this not a hassle-free approach to becoming a legitimate-sized government? Will this approach leave out the recognitions of aboriginal governments? I hear the drums beating.

How is this going to affect our relationship with the aboriginal governments in the North in regard to the treaties, the land claims, and the self-government negotiations? Where is the written confirmation that our aboriginal governments are partners and in support of this deal? Imagine the power of having all the aboriginal governments and this public government initial this agreement. We’ll be speaking with one voice, no question about it.

We have a chance to bring everyone under one tent. No one has to be left out or separate from this deal. We cannot take the “do alone” approach. We all have people in our communities for the very first time hearing about some of the details, thanks to CBC. These people are concerned about how this will play out in their lives. Do we not want them to know the details of their lives and their children’s children’s lives that will be altered?

We strive to be both an accountable and transparent government. Why are we doing this in a manner that looks like a backroom deal? We must be up front and honest in our dealings. We need to listen to our people. We have a responsibility to our northern counterparts to include them in our discussions. Isn’t that one of our goals: a strong and independent North built on partnership? We see beyond our lives and know for certain that when we all have governments on equal ground we stand a chance to make great waves on the lives of the people in the North. United we stand, divided we fall; and fall we will should we proceed without our partnership with the aboriginal governments.

I will state again, as many of my colleagues have done time and time again, about accountability and transparency. I say, Mr. Premier , give the people the respect and dignity to have a say in their destiny.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Yakeleya , your time for your Member's statement has expired.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

I say to Mr. Premier , give the people the respect and dignity to have a say in their destiny. Give each resident in the North the opportunity to voice their opinions on this deal.

We must move forward on the path of unity and sometimes this takes time. That’s what we have today: time to know how this deal is going to go down in history to be proud or to be chapters of

regrets. I ask the government to take their time on this deal.

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Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Public Housing Rental Arrears

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we know, the transfer of the Public Housing Program to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment experience did not work. The transfer was meant to harmonize the Public Housing Program and the Income Support Program, but this was not achieved and, if anything, it had the opposite effect and created much more problems for public housing tenants.

As a result, the Public Housing Program was transferred back to the NWT Housing Corporation; however, the old rules are still in place from before the transfer took place and now remain in place. It is these guidelines that have been the source of all the problems. So what we thought as MLAs was a victory by moving the program back was short lived.

Under these guidelines there are more and more public housing tenants now continuing to accumulate greater arrears. These tenants who are already finding it difficult to make ends meet are now slowly losing hope of ever being free of the thousands of dollars of rental arrears. In many communities unemployed tenants are being charged maximum or economic rent because they are not following the rules that we as MLAs thought were thrown out with the transfer back to the local housing organizations. However, this was not the case.

Many of these tenants are still the same tenants that were in public housing before the transfer to ECE and now, because of the new rules, they find themselves continuing to accumulate arrears.

This government must completely correct the mistakes made by past governments and must fully move back to the old system where tenants on income support or tenants who are simply unemployed are charged $32, not $1,800. I thought this government understood the problem was not with the people that were delivering the program, it was the program itself. We must go back to the original program.

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Public Housing Rental Arrears

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Public Housing Rental Arrears

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is very similar to that of my colleague Mr. Beaulieu .

Over the summer, since the last time we got together, I had an opportunity to travel to many communities in the Northwest Territories and I talked with a lot of different people, both on committee travel and other related business. One of the common concerns that became evident as I was travelling around talking to the different residents of the Northwest Territories is housing.

There were two issues that came up more than others and the first one was the number of vacant public housing units and the number of vacant houses that the Housing Corporation has available for sale. Last week the Minister made a statement where he talked specifically about some of these vacant units and the hard work that the department and the Housing Corporation were doing to try to liquidate and move these vacant houses out. I look forward to following up on that work and seeing what’s done in that area.

The other area of concern was arrears. A significant number of public housing tenants have gained and developed significant arrears, as my colleague mentioned, since the program moved from Housing Corp to Education and then back to the Housing Corp. These arrears are a big problem, because if you’re under arrears you don’t have an ability to access any of the other programs that the Housing Corp offers. So until we liquidate some of these arrears or the people pay back some of these arrears, they’re going to continue to have housing problems.

The big problem in this area is that because of the situation that my colleague described, is a number of individuals have what some people consider to be false arrears; they’re not actually in arrears. If they had been assessed in a timely manner and appropriately to begin with, they never would have developed these arrears. So what needs to happen is the Housing Corp needs to go and review these individuals’ files on an individual basis, those individuals who have arrears, to determine if, in fact, these individuals have arrears or whether they are these fake arrears that some people have exist out there.

Later today I will be asking the Minister responsible for the Housing Corp if they will go back and look at some of these arrears and determine which ones are real, which ones are not, and find a process to liquidate the ones that aren’t real if they, in fact, exist. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Public Housing Rental Arrears

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great honour to recognize Maryann Ross, the vice-president of the Gwich’in Tribal Council. Welcome, Maryann.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize a constituent of Inuvik Twin Lakes, Maryann Ross. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During my Member’s statement I was talking about some of these perceived arrears that public housing tenants have in the Northwest Territories. As I said, there are some people that believe that a number of these arrears aren’t, in fact, real. I would like to ask the Minister responsible some questions about those potential arrears. Has any analysis been done within the Housing Corp to determine whether or not this is, in fact, true? Are there some individuals who have possibly unreal arrears or have we done any assessment to determine that, in fact? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have begun the work of looking at the arrears that were accumulated during the transfer over to ECE. We have noticed that the arrears did increase significantly during that time, so we are working on trying to find a way that we can get these arrears identified and have them dealt with. Thank you.

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I was wondering if the Minister could give me a bit of a timeline as to when he thinks that work might be done and if those individuals are identified to have arrears that aren’t in fact real, what’s going to be done to help offset those arrears.

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, this would probably be a fairly lengthy process because we’d almost have to go on a file-by-file basis. But with the tenants starting to come back to the LHOs to

get their assessments done, there’s an opportunity for them to verify their income that they had during that time and adjustments will be made on the arrears. Thank you.

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

That’s good to know and I’m happy to hear that. I’m curious, will there be any sort of public awareness campaign or anything done to encourage the individuals who might be in arrears to come forward with this information in order to identify areas where they may, in fact, not owe large sums of money so that they can get back on a financial pathway, to a positive financial pathway? Thank you.

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, as far as an official public awareness campaign, there are no plans for that right now. We are working with tenants as they start to go back to the LHOs for the assessment. They are being told some of the processes that they could go through. In forums like this particular one and in my travels throughout the Territories this summer and different assemblies I went to, I did the same message that we had to start working on the arrears and there was an opportunity for tenants who accumulated arrears during the transfer over to ECE to come back, get their income verified, and adjustments will be made. Thank you.

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Question 208-16(5): Public Housing Rental Arrears

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I talked about the problems that exist even with the transfer of the Public Housing Program back to the local housing organizations. I have questions for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation .

Mr. Speaker, was the Minister aware that when the transfer took place, that the policies that remained and were developed as a harmonization tool with ECE and the NWT Housing Corporation would also remain in place when it was transferred back to the local housing organizations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the transfer went over to ECE, my understanding was that clients were going to go to ECE, get their rents assessed, and then they’d go back and pay the LHO. But as we’ve been hearing throughout the transfer, there had been a lot of difficulties with some not being assessed in a timely manner and we see some of the results of it today with the arrears. My understanding of the whole

thing was that they were just going to go and get their arrears and… They were going to get their arrears assessed and then they were going to go to the LHO and pay the rent. Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, my question basically was when the transfer occurred back again, when the decision was reversed to go back to the corporation or the local housing organizations, the rules that were in place, policies, procedures that were put in place to harmonize the two programs, did the Minister know that part of the transfer was also going to be occurring? Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I apologize if I misunderstood the Member’s first question. With the policies going back from ECE to Housing Corp, I am aware that we are using those at the moment. However, we are evaluating the whole process and we will be making some changes, ones that will be better for clients. Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister commit to allocating resources to the communities to clean up the mess that was created by the harmonization? Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, with the transfer back to the Housing Corp, of the assessment, it’s my belief that things… We’re just in the early stages right now, but things are starting to improve. We see the assessment rates, the collection rates have gone up to almost… Some of the assessment rates in the communities are 97 and 98 percent, so that is a huge improvement, and I think that as they continue to go to the LHOs to get the assessments done, then I think we’ll see a significant improvement. It will take some time, as I said in responding to Mr. Abernethy ’s questions.

We’d almost have to look at it on a client-by-client basis, but I think through the process of the LHOs we’re starting to accomplish that. Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, previous to the transfer to ECE from the local housing organizations with the program, it was a fairly simple program, and with the low employment rates in the communities everyone knew who was working, so the individual was assessed a certain amount. He was assessed a certain amount, he came in, he paid his rent. It was not a requirement for him to continue to report each month that he remained unemployed or his rent would be moved to a maximum. That system seemed to be working fairly well.

It was changed and then we asked it to be put back to the corporation, but the program that was in place that created the problem wasn’t thrown out. Is the Minister prepared to revise that program to go back to something that is close to what was in place previous to the harmonization project? Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, having to come into the LHO was a process that was in place even before the transfer over to ECE. Whether you are employed or not, it asked you to come in every month to verify your income. If you didn’t come in, obviously you are going to be assessed at economic rate, but if you came in later and verified your income, then they would make the necessary adjustments. So the program has always been there. It was just a matter of reporting when the transfer took place to ECE, because not all communities had an ECE office and, therefore, we find ourselves in a situation we are in today.

But there is an opportunity, as I have said earlier, that we can go back and look at some of the files. We need the people to work with us on this one. They have to verify their income and adjustments will be made. Thank you.

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Question 209-16(5): Public Housing Program Guidelines

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services . They are really about trying to introduce some common sense into the process of decision-making recognizing the need for rules and procedures. I would like to ask, first of all, would the Minister confirm that post-secondary students attending school outside the Northwest Territories who have a need for treatment or facilities or experts not available in the Northwest Territories must return to the Northwest Territories before they are actually able to access that and, of course, greatly increase cost and reduce medical outcomes? Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the rule. I agree with the Member that it is not commonsensical. It is under review. We are looking to change that. Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, thanks for the Minister for that candid comment. That shows the Minister does have common sense herself and is willing to speak straightforwardly on that, which I appreciate.

Would the Minister also agree that there are many situations that, because of bureaucratic rules, end up costing the system more than would have been necessarily required and it actually doesn’t help in the medical outcomes that we are looking for? For example, it may end up in delays. For example, an appointment with a specialist that, because of bureaucratic rule, is delayed and that appointment

can’t be booked for another six months. That obviously has some medical implications. Would the Minister agree that these sorts of things are costly both in terms of financial costs and medical outcomes? Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I answered all the questions the first time, but I just want to... Sometimes that just invites other questions. Mr. Speaker, I just want to let the Member know that the scenario that he put together in his Member’s statement, it is the rule that requires medical travel to start from the NWT is a problem for students who are working and living and going to school somewhere else. That has been red flagged. As the Member knows, we are reviewing the Medical Travel Policy and that specific issue is something that will need to be changed. It will be changed and we are working on that. Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

The Minister was referring to my first question. My second question, I was broadening it up to the whole business of common sense. I wasn’t talking about students in that case. I am sure the Minister, however, does agree that there are many cases of this lack of common sense, or perhaps a better way to say it would be lack of flexibility of the system. I am talking as much perhaps more of a system, if you will, Mr. Speaker, than the Minister.

Again, I do understand the rule, the need for rules and procedures, but I am looking for flexibility might be a better way of putting it. Will the Minister commit to developing the necessary flexibility into all of our health procedures to increase our effectiveness on prevention, early diagnosis and reduced costs that these sorts of examples portray, not just restricting it to students? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, if the Member is speaking about the Medical Travel Policy, we do have rules. If there are rules for change, I am obviously willing to look at that with the Member, but I think his question might be a little bit too broad about flexibility. We do try to have clear rules and apply them. If the Member has any suggestions for change, I am willing to listen to them. Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate again the Minister’s openness to approach here. Perhaps I will go through committee and see if we can bring that forward.

When can students, in this case, expect to see this common sense or flexibility brought to the process? Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, as the Member knows, we are reviewing the Medical Travel Program. It is quite an extensive review. I look

forward to bringing the results of that review to the standing committee so that we could work to make the program better. Thank you.

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Question 210-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are addressed to the Premier today, Minister responsible for the Executive , I believe.

In having heard from the participants of the summit that the elimination of poverty has to be the highest priority for this government, and me having advised the Premier of that, and it was also in a press release that came out a week or so ago, I would like to first of all ask the Premier if he can tell us just how that will happen. What will he do to make the eradication of poverty a high priority for this government and what will he do to make sure that the work on eradicating poverty is done before the end of this Assembly? Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work of this Legislative Assembly on an annual basis covers a large area that affects the poverty of the Northwest Territories in the sense of trying to eradicate it by those programs we have but not going down that path instead to the work that has begun. I committed to Members in this House that we would begin to do our work in Executive. There has been an internal working group established with them. The Executive supports the work and an advisory group of external stakeholders to help. They are looking at the work that has come through. Some of that was recently held.

That will also be fed into this system to see what areas we could look at strengthening. Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, thanks to the Premier . One of the other recommendations, a major recommendation from the summit was that any work done on eliminating poverty has to involve everyone -- NGOs that are providing services, local governments, social justice organizations -- not just the territorial government. If we hear as already mentioned and we do know that there has been a working group established, but that working group is composed of GNWT staff. The advisory group is made up of stakeholders. That basically contravenes the recommendation from the summit.

I would like to ask the Premier if he is willing to change the format of the working group to not only involve GNWT staff but also involve key stakeholders involved in dealing with residents who are enduring poverty. Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, as the work that is just getting underway, again, the internal

working group because it takes a number of departments who are in that delivery that will have to go to their departments if things are to change or if there is a requirement for enhanced resources. The external group is there to guide that work as it happens. That is a process we have established. If it clearly shows it is not working, then we would be prepared to look at what we can do as we go forward. Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat dismayed by the Premier ’s answer, because I think what the summit said was that we need to not just have the work done by GNWT people at the outset, that we need to involve everybody at the outset or else we are not going to get meaningful input or analysis of what we currently do.

As well, during the summit, in terms of the work that needed to be done, it was stated that we needed to start to work from the ground up, not look at what is existing but basically start with a clean slate, a zero-based review, so to speak. I would like to ask the Premier what kind of work is anticipated in terms of the working group, whether it is with or without the NGOs. I would hope it is with, but what kind of work is the government going to do? How do they intend to go about developing an Anti-Poverty Strategy? Will we start from what exists or will we use the blank slate approach? Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you. The process we’ve engaged in is one where we have to first measure where we are and what we have in place. At that point decisions can be made as to the approach of coming up with a strategy that will work for the NWT. Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Your final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to say to the Premier ’s offer to measure, absolutely we must measure where we are. Much of that work was done during the Anti-Poverty Summit and that work cannot proceed if we don’t involve everybody who is currently involved in anti-poverty actions, whether it be territorial government programs or non-government groups that are working to help people out in the trenches, so to speak.

So I guess I would like to ask the Premier again if he will reconsider this working group and reconsider expanding it to include the key stakeholders at the outset, not in an advisory capacity but in a working capacity. Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you. One of the things I’ve realized is that the bigger the group gets, the longer it takes the process and decisions. What I will say is that I’m prepared to discuss with the Executive to see how this working group can do its work along with the advisors on this and see how that can function, or how we can improve that relationship. But as the Member has stated, one, to

see something come forward in the lifetime of this Assembly and one of the things we have to realize is it’s one thing to establish a working group or come up with a strategy, it’s another thing that we have to come up and fund that and we have to make sure that we line up all of those as well. So I’m prepared to go back to the Executive and have a discussion about that process and how that work gets done. Thank you.

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Question 211-16(5): Efforts To Eradicate Poverty

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve got questions today for the Minister of Transportation . It gets back to my Member’s statement in regard to the Deh Cho Bridge and potential financial liability for the Government of the Northwest Territories with that project.

Back in the spring Members were talking to the Minister and the department about a construction audit that was to take place on the project. It was supposed to, at the time, take a couple of months to perform that construction audit. There hasn’t been any report come back through standing committee or to this House. So I’d like to ask the Minister what is the exact status of that construction audit and are there any potential financial liabilities in regard to that audit. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Transportation , Mr. Michael McLeod .

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s good to see a Member consistent in these questions on the Deh Cho Bridge. The Deh Cho Bridge is proceeding very well. Over the summer months we’ve achieved our targets for the summer construction. The steel is en route and we’re expecting to start seeing the superstructure starting to be put up in the next little while.

As to the report that the Member is referencing, the draft is completed. We’re now doing a reconciliation with staff on it and we don’t anticipate there’s going to be any additional cost to the government. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

If the audit was to take two months and it’s taken six, I’m just wondering if that’s cost the government any additional money to have the construction audit finished. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

I don’t believe it has cost us any more. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Can the Minister let us know exactly when the report will be coming through to standing committee and Members of the House on the construction audit? There was a number of

concerns regarding the scour rock in some of the structural components of pier 3 south and I’d just like to ask the Minister when that report might be coming through. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

We’ve committed to provide that information. We will provide the information to the Members as soon as the reconciliation of the audit is done. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will that information also be posted on the Department of Transportation’s website for the public to see? Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

We will release the report once it’s finalized. Thank you.

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Question 212-16(5): Deh Cho Bridge Project Construction Audit

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for the Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to my Member’s statement I noted that this process, yes, it has gone on for a while, but the whole intention of the devolution process came about because of the settlement of the Dene/Metis Land Claim in 1988, which spells out the provisions of the Northern Accord and how the Dene/Metis were going to be involved under the

section of the Northern Accord, which is called the Aboriginal Rights section. In that section, Mr. Speaker, it clearly stipulates that the government has an obligation to ensure that those parameters of the land claim agreements are upheld.

So I’d like to ask the Minister when we talk about the majority of Members on board, I know in the past there were letters by way of Ron Irwin in regard to asking for a majority of the groups on side, and also in the previous government in regard to Mr. Handley’s government, that you had to have a majority of the Members on side. So I’d like to ask the Premier why are we now taking the position where we’re basically going with a simple minority and moving forward without having the majority of aboriginal groups on side. It seemed to be good enough. So what I’d like to know is why have you come to that conclusion?

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the Member’s lead up to the question he talked about the comprehensive Dene/Metis claim that was concluded. Mr. Speaker, that was not concluded. It was a discussion that was going on, but that process then led to the regional claims process and those are in place and we continue to

work with those in implementation in fulfilling the agreements.

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Throughout this whole process -- and the Member talked about this -- this has been ongoing for a number of Assemblies. In fact, as I stated, half of my lifetime we’ve talked about devolution and resource revenue sharing or the Northern Accord in trying to move those authorities to the North. So there has been inclusion at all levels in the Northwest Territories, including aboriginal leaders and negotiators at quite a number of tables. In fact, if you look, we work with the claims that are in place and that are protected and we continue to honour that protection. When you look at the Tlicho Agreement of

Section 2.4.(1), you look at the Gwich’in Settlement of 3.1.(10) and the Sahtu of 3.1.(9) and the Inuvialuit have a similar provision in their

Section 20.(1). So we use the existing claims as our processes in how we conduct ourselves in our discussions. Thank you.

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Under the Northern Accord agreement it states:

Nothing in this agreement will abrogate or derogate from any of the provisions included in any aboriginal land claims settlements including the following subjects:

a) land use planning;

b) environmental impact screening and

review;

c) land and water use permitting;

d) wildlife management and compensation;

e) surface

rights;

f) subsurface

rights;

g) benefit

agreements;

h) creation and management of national and

territorial parks and conservation areas;

resource revenue sharing.

For greater certainty, the oil and gas management are required in the establishment of pursuing this agreement shall be comparable to those in the land claim agreements.

So this agreement states that you have to follow the land claims agreements with regard to how you implement devolution.

So I’d like to know why we aren’t following the Northern Accord as it was laid out, to ensure those provisions of the land claims agreements will be upheld.

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

As I had stated earlier, much like the comprehensive Dene/Metis claim, the Northern Accord work had a lot of work done that led up to that. As to actual implementation, we’ve been using the agreements that have been signed off, that have been voted on and protected under the Constitution and our work as signatories when those parties or those agreements were ratified. The Northern Accord was a process that led up to and many hoped that it would be finalized, but much like the Dene/Metis Comprehensive Claim it did not proceed beyond that. In fact, we do now use the agreements that are in place and we continue to do that.

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d just like to ask the Premier exactly how many aboriginal groups were in the negotiating process, at the table negotiating this latest devolution agreement since previous statements by the Premier in which he put this arrangement on the back burner, as he stated. Can you tell us how many aboriginal groups were actually at the negotiating table when this was being negotiated between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government?

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

We’ll be able to document the fact that we’ve had all groups at the table through the process up until April. That’s when the Gwich’in decided to pull out from those discussions.

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Question 213-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on the questions asked by my colleague Mr. Bromley on how we can take a more

common sense approach to things which seem to have an obvious and simple answer, but because policy is strict and there isn’t a lot of latitude for discretion to be applied it makes it difficult to plead these cases.

The cases that Mr. Bromley refers to where we have students in southern Canada who need medical attention and because medical travel must originate in the Northwest Territories to be covered, the fact that these students couldn’t then access any kind of travel assistance even if it would be far less than what it would cost to come home and fly from here, but they can’t access any kind of support. It doesn’t make sense. Mr. Bromley clearly referred to it as a common sense approach.

We know, as a government, that we can’t have policies that have too much discretionary latitude attached to them because then we don’t have any way of controlling it and we don’t have any way of controlling costs and the whole thing can just go awry. But there must be a way.

I didn’t really hear anything very specific being responded from the Minister as to how we could deal with these sorts of things. I have a suggestion and I’d like to ask the Minister what she thinks of this.

We need some kind of a person, a point of contact in the government, where people or MLAs, on behalf of constituents, could make a case for where the government needs to alter a policy in order for it to apply to a certain set of circumstances; somebody that the government trusts is not going to put the government at some kind of risk and somebody that will also be understanding and apply some common sense and discretion to the situation. I suggest some type of an ombudsman. I’ll ask the Minister, first, what would she respond to having somebody in the Department of Health with that kind of ability.

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. An ombudsman or some kind of an arbiter or in many cases, no matter what Health and Social Services issues, they end up on the Minister’s desk. The important thing in a society based on rule of law and rule of rules, we need clear rules. Even an ombudsman would need a rule to arbitrate or rule on these things.

On the specific issue in question that we have here -- just so that Members know that the Department of Health and Social Services is not completely without common sense -- the Members could imagine cases where, I mean, see some merit as to why we need to require the medical travel originating in the NWT. Because we use out-of-town uses, we audit cases where things come out of the Territories, because sometimes people move away and they use our medical benefits and such.

That’s why. But in the cases of students, there’s no question that our students who are living and going to school outside of the NWT should be able to get their medical procedures from where they live. That is a definite anomaly and I am looking to change that.

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

That is encouraging and I’ll be very interested in seeing how the Minister plans to address that. I’ll be looking forward to some proposal being brought forward.

The Minister referred to these kinds of situations landing on her desk. I would question whether or not, considering the number of portfolios, the amount of workload that the Minister and her executive assistant carry, the fact that the Department of Health and Social Services is the largest department in our government, if this is the highest and best use of the Minister’s time for her to take on that role herself. Is it not possible to delegate this to a reasonable thinking, critical, analyzing person and have this person accessible to everyone?

Not everyone has the same access because not everyone can advocate for themselves and not everyone has an MLA that they feel they can go to that can advocate for them. So does the idea, and for a lack of a better word, an advocate or ombudsman, does the Minister believe that has merit or would she just like us to continue sending these off to her executive assistant?

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

I definitely feel that notion, that idea does deserve merit for us to further explore. I think, under the given resources, I don’t think we can create an entire office, but I think there is definitely room for us to consider it. I would like to further work with the Members to consider some kind of appeal for certain benefits under health care. It’s usually about insurance services, what’s insured, what’s not, medical travel, maybe supp health benefits.

Under supp health benefits we are definitely looking at some kind of appeal mechanism. Student Financial Assistance has that. I don’t know what other social programs have them, but I think it’s something worth pursuing and I will commit right now to look at that.

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Sorry, and I apologize, Mr. Speaker. I am very encouraged to hear this. This is something that I believe has been missing in the government for a long time. SFA is another area where you could combine different appeals for different departments under one person and they could expeditiously deal with these matters. I don’t envy that person’s job, mind you, because it might necessarily involve saying no to some people. But does the Minister concur that in the scope of these policies that there are extenuating circumstances from time to time which do require a common sense

solution which often would save the government money?

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

It may or it may not, but the important thing is that I think our people need to feel that they have a place they could go to that should be outside of the political process, that can’t be depending on the level or the strength of advocacy capacity of certain Members or the heartbreaking side of the stories. I think we could all benefit from having some sort of objective standard by which our people know exactly what they qualify for, what the rules are, why do they not qualify, or do they qualify, and if there is any room for improvement it has to come back here for us to make the decision. But I definitely feel that the time has come and we need to consider that.

It will be complex, I think, more complex than we think, but I think for the benefit of the next Assembly -- and these issues will not go away -- we do need an objective process. I would commit to working with Mrs. Groenewegen and other Members to see how we could move this forward.

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Question 214-16(5): Common Sense Approach To Health Care Delivery Decisions

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier of the Northwest Territories. I want to ask the Premier regarding the draft Devolution and Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement-in-Principle in terms of allowing the people of the Northwest Territories ample time to look at this deal. As has been noted by CBC, parts of the deal are out there. Can we have our constituents in the regions look at this deal to see if it’s something they want to join with the Government of the Northwest Territories to initial at the start of the negotiations?

I want to ask the Premier if his Cabinet has considered bringing this out to the public to have a public debate and to see if we are all in one on this matter.

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have, as a government, used a process that is well established and one that is working with the parties at the table and the aboriginal organizations that have been a part of this process. We are awaiting their input with the joint letter that went out to them. We’ll have to decide at that point how we proceed as the GNWT.

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

I’m asking the Premier in terms of some innovation and thinking outside the box regarding the established guidelines and policies to bring this significant deal to the peoples’ front doors and asking if this is a deal that we want to sign on

with everybody in the Northwest Territories. I have the K’asho leadership coming here today and I’m meeting with them after this House session here today. I need to let the K’asho leadership know. What should I tell them about this deal?

We have 13 days, the Premier has indicated, to get responses from the aboriginal leaders; 13 days to tell my leaders what to do for our children’s children on this significant deal here and in terms of signing on with the government. Can the Premier allow the people of the Northwest Territories the dignity and respect to debate this in an open forum?

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

The aboriginal representatives received a draft AIP in September. They at that point were hoping and I’m sure that they’ve had their discussions or are in the process of having their discussions with their elected representatives of their representative organizations and will be able to respond back. We’re awaiting that response. We’re trying to honour, much like at the regional leaders table, the role of governments and have that interaction government to government as we have been told so many times. We’re awaiting the regional organizations’ responses to the letter that’s been sent to them.

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

The time frame for the aboriginal leaders to respond, again I would wait until the end of the month to see. It would have to be on Halloween Day, too, so we’ll see what type of a response we’re going to get.

I want to ask because right now I’m not hearing the aboriginal governments jumping up and down saying “sign here.” I’m hearing different views as to this agreement and it seems that we don’t have much support from the majority of aboriginal governments. I want to ask the Premier again if this is the type of sentiments and feelings out there at the end of the month, would we as the Assembly make the decision to initial or not this agreement?

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Question 215-16(5): Draft Devolution Agreement-In-Principle

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Mr. Speaker, the work that we have done and this draft AIP that has been sent out has been many years in the making. In fact, the specific work on this area started as far back as 2001. The previous government along with four of the groups initialled off and sent it in. That work has been the foundation, the basis of the work that has gone forward. So there has been much involvement in that process and as our process is established and works, before I can si