Debates of Nov. 7th, 2000

This is page numbers 751 - 779 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was development .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Fire Services Exemplary Services Medal

Ceremony At North Slave Correctional Facilities Site

Birthday Wishes For Mr. Kakfwi And Mrs. Groenewegen

Range Lake North School Fundraising Efforts For The Council For Disabled Persons

Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program

Aboriginal Programming In NWT School Curriculum

Need For A Resident Doctor In Hay River

Coordination In The Delivery Of Social Services Programs

Zero Tolerance For Violence Policy

Devolution Of Student Financial Assistance Programs

Grandfathering Changes To The Student Financial Assistance Program

High Cost Of Water And Sewage Services In Fort Mcpherson

Changes To The Student Financial Assistance Program

Auditor General's Report To The NWT Legislative Assembly

Congratulations To New Executive Of The Gwich'in Tribal Council

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Assistance To Hay River Families

Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Application For Student Financial Assistance

Coordinated Delivery Of Social Programs

Student Financial Assistance Program

Public Release Of Loan Information

Hotel Room Tax Survey

Grandfathering Remissible Loan

Ambulance Services On NWT Highways

Water Treatment System Maintenance

Publishing Loans To NWT Residents And Businesses

Written Question 14-14(3): Funding To Offset Fort Mcpherson Water System Costs

Tabled Document 63-14(3): A Human Resource Development Proposal Related To Non-renewable Resources In The Nwt

Tabled Document 64-14(3): Letter To Sandy Lee, Mla, From NWT Hotel Association Re: Hotel Tax Proposal

Tabled Document 65-14(3): Letter From Yellowknife Chamber Of Commerce Re: Proposed Hotel Tax

Tabled Document 66-14(3): Letter From Hotel Association Of The NWT Re: Proposed Hotel Tax Survey

Tabled Document 67-14(3): Letter From Hamlet Of Fort Mcpherson Re: Water System Costs

Tabled Document 68-14(3): Letter From Hamlet Of Fort Mcpherson To Residents Re: Water Rates

Referral Of Tabled Document 63-14(3): Human Resource Development Proposal Related To Non-renewable Resources In The NWT To The Committee Of The Whole

Bill 16:

An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act

Item 16: Motions

Referral Of Tabled Document 63-14(3): Human Resource Development Proposal Related To Non-renewable Resources In The NWT To The Committee Of The Whole

Bill 13: Hotel Room Tax Act

Bill 15:

An Act To Amend The Northwest Territories Power Corporation Act And The Public Service Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Recommendation To Transfer NWT Development Corporation Subsidy Limits To Regulations

Recommendation To Publicize Loan Information Under NWT Development Corporation Subsidy Limits To Regulations

Recommendation To Review The Financial Administration Act

Recommendation That Contribution Agreements Include A Monitoring And Reporting System

Legislative Assembly To Request The Auditor General Review Government Contracting

Recommendation To Re-address Environmental Clean-up And Restoration Costs

Recommendation That Government Develop An Action Plan To Deal With Auditor General's Recommendations

Government To Table A Comprehensive Response To Committee Report 4-14(3)

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 8: Justice Statutes Amendment Act

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Honourable Jane Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Mr. McLeod , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen , Honourable Tony Whitford .

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 751

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Transportation , Mr. Steen .

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Minister's Statement 24-14(3): Fire Services Exemplary Services Medal

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 751

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this afternoon I would like to call attention to the award of a Fire Services Exemplary Service Medal to an employee of the Department of Transportation, Mr. David Hessdorfer. David Hessdorfer is a veteran firefighter at the Yellowknife airport. On behalf of the Office of the Governor General of Canada, I had the honour recently of presenting Mr. Hessdorfer with his award.

Following a lengthy nomination process, the Office of the Governor General approved the award this summer. To receive the award, the nominee must have completed 20 years as a member of a fire service of such high standard to merit the award. In addition to his 20 years with the airport fire service, David has also served more than two years with the City of Yellowknife's fire department as a volunteer firefighter.

Whether performing the general fire and paramedic duties of a professional firefighter, fire hall administration or training new recruits, David has proved a reliable worker who can be counted on at all times. His professional attitude and keen abilities make him a pleasure to work with and a well-respected member of the department.

Mr. Speaker, I believe this award from the Governor General's office is well deserved and that Mr. Hessdorfer stands as an example of the dedication and excellence typical of employees of the Department of Transportation and the territorial public service in general. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 24-14(3): Fire Services Exemplary Services Medal

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 751

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Steen . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Justice , Mr. Antoine .

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Minister's Statement 25-14(3): Ceremony At North Slave Correctional Facilities Site

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 751

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow morning a very important ceremony will be held in Yellowknife at the site of the new adult and youth correctional

facilities. This ceremony marks the beginning of the construction of these two new facilities.

Respected elders will lead prayers to ask for guidance for everyone who works on this project and for the safety of the workers who build the new facilities. As the project develops, there will be further ceremonies to help make sure the new facilities become a place of healing and reconciliation.

Mr. Speaker, I believe this is the first time we have built a correctional institution in this way and I believe it shows a commitment to the future of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, we often say we need to build stronger communities; part of doing that is dealing with the things that go wrong and make sure they do not happen again.

We have laws to say what is acceptable in our communities and what is not. It is easy to say that a person has hurt the community because they have broken a law. It is not so easy to say what should be done as a result.

In the past, prisons have focused on punishment, but we have learned that in the long term, this does not solve our problems.

In more recent years, the focus has shifted to rehabilitation. We now try to find a way to help offenders grow into strong, healthy people. To accomplish this, we need facilities that build on the best aspects of our cultures here in the North and that help people to find their own path.

Unfortunately, we have been limited by a lack of suitable facilities. Members of this House have raised the issue of the shortage of youth facilities in the North Slave region and have recognized that YCC needs to be replaced. I think we can all agree it is difficult to offer appropriate programs when you do not have room for them.

Mr. Speaker, the new adult and youth facilities in Yellowknife will play an important role in dealing with and reducing crime. In the long run, that is good for all of us. I hope that my colleagues here in the House and everyone in the Northwest Territories will join with me in recognizing this important occasion. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Minister's Statement 25-14(3): Ceremony At North Slave Correctional Facilities Site

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 751

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Handley .

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Birthday Wishes For Mr. Kakfwi And Mrs. Groenewegen

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me a great deal of pleasure today in that this is a significant day in the history of our government. It is the 50th birthday of our Premier .

-- Applause

I am sure we all benefit from that 50 years of experience and learning that is packed in his head. Mr. Kakfwi , we all wish you a very happy birthday.

As well, Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting that tomorrow is the birthday of the Deputy Premier .

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Birthday Wishes For Mr. Kakfwi And Mrs. Groenewegen

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

Some Hon. Members

Oh, no!

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Birthday Wishes For Mr. Kakfwi And Mrs. Groenewegen

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, she is 40 -- and I cannot deceive this House...

-- Laughter

...and we also wish her a very happy birthday. I am sure there is some significance on the Chinese calendar or some other document to the fact that our Premier has his birthday today and the Deputy Premier 's is tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Birthday Wishes For Mr. Kakfwi And Mrs. Groenewegen

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, happy birthday, Mr. Premier , and happy birthday to come, Madam Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Range Lake North School Fundraising Efforts For The Council For Disabled Persons

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today at noon, I was fortunate to be able to visit my riding at the Range Lake North School where a group of students there have come up with an idea to help raise money for the Northwest Territories Council for Disabled Persons. What they have decided to do is challenge all the kids in our city to donate a cheesecake or a pie to the council auction, which will be held later this month on November 25th, I believe. Those pies that will be brought will be auctioned off.

Mr. Speaker, as you are aware, this is one of the most important events that the group has to raise money. I would like to acknowledge the work of the president of the student council, Kathleen Stroeder, and the vice-president, Kim Theil, who thought of this idea and launched it today. I would also like to challenge the Members and staff of the Legislative Assembly to make a contribution towards a pie or a cheesecake so that we can donate them at the event. Mr. Speaker, I would like to emphasize the fact that this is a group that serves people from all over the Territories, not just our city, and provide services for those in need due to various disabilities. It is an important cause.

At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge and congratulate the Ministers of the Department of Health and Social Services and Education, as well as the sponsoring groups of Northwest Territories Council for Disabled Persons, Association for Community Living and YWCA for releasing a very important report yesterday, "Living with Disabilities and Living with Dignity." I am aware of this report from having been briefed on it in Hay River in the summertime and I was looking forward to having this report released.

I look forward to reading the report and to working with the government to see what we can do to meet some of the needs of the people in our Territory who are in most need. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Range Lake North School Fundraising Efforts For The Council For Disabled Persons

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 752

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our government is in the business of providing programs and services to the people we represent. There are many programs that are designed to help the old, the young and the infirm. These programs and services must be reviewed on a regular basis to ensure that they remain relevant and meet the needs of the people they are supposed to serve.

One such program, Mr. Speaker, is the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program administered by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Since its inception, this program has been a valuable aid to the seniors in the Northwest Territories in helping them maintain their independence in their own homes. However, Mr. Speaker, there is a need to review this program to ensure that the needs of the seniors and their families continue to be met. The program has not been improved since 1997. The maximum income that each senior's household is allowed needs to be adjusted higher to take into account inflation and a huge increase in fuel and oil prices in this year alone.

Mr. Speaker, in the communities I represent, any household who earns more than $30,744 per year is not entitled to any assistance under this program. I challenge the Members present to consider whether they would be able to pay taxes, buy food, pay bills and keep a roof over their heads on this amount.

Mr. Speaker, government programs should be designed to ensure that they serve everyone in a fair and equitable manner. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, what guidelines does this government have in place to ensure that all our seniors will be able to meet their heat and fuel demands this year?

It has been four years since this subsidy was introduced. I believe it is time to review this issue in light of the rise in fuel costs. We have to measure whether or not the subsidy is still enough. We shall also be revisiting the ceiling set to see if they are still adequate. Is this $30,744 still a realistic family income to use as a cut-off or should we look at raising it to an amount more in tune with what is required by the seniors to maintain their independence?

Mr. Speaker, I will be following up with the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment during question period to determine whether he believes that the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program is being delivered in a fair and equitable manner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Aboriginal Programming In NWT School Curriculum

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a people's culture and language form the basis of their life and identity. Mr. Speaker, in a territory where half the population is aboriginal, it is important to have aboriginal culture-focused courses in our schools. However, teaching the ways and culture of aboriginal people in our school systems happens to be sporadic and infrequent.

One then has to look at the curriculum and see where this can be improved. Yes, our students do receive some instruction through Northern Studies in grade 10. Also, aboriginal culture and history are directly addressed in grades 4, 5 and 7. Grades 6, 9 and 10 address it in other teaching units. Dene Kede is taught from kindergarten to grade 6 with expansion to grade 9 this year, but there is no continuity throughout the grade levels, Mr. Speaker. In some cases, aboriginal languages are only taught up to a certain grade level, but they do not carry through to grade 12.

In northern Ontario, grade 6 students are expected to learn of the contributions aboriginal people have made to the political and social life of Canada. The course is called Heritage and Citizenship. Other opportunities are found throughout the curriculum to learn about aboriginal peoples.

In Australia, there is an Aboriginal Studies Association that promotes aboriginal studies for all levels of education. In Canada, SchoolNet may allow teachers and students to explore Canadian aboriginal and social issues, but again, there needs to be a more concerted effort to teach aboriginal culture with consistency at every grade level in the community, Mr. Speaker.

In the Department of Education's report "Towards Excellence", it acknowledges a need to improve support to communities to achieve their culture, heritage and language goals. The approach is to give the communities the flexibility to achieve this. So it appears there is much work to be done in this area still, Mr. Speaker, especially in the area of curriculum development at all grade levels.

I will have some questions for the appropriate Minister when the time comes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Aboriginal Programming In NWT School Curriculum

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mr. Delorey .

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Need For A Resident Doctor In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about a matter that is critical to the citizens of Hay River. Mr. Speaker, we have a population of approximately 3,800 people, with a regional hospital but not one permanent doctor. We have had over the last eight months or so a number of doctors providing service to Hay River on a locum basis. Mr. Speaker, I feel I am on the campaign trail again saying we need to do something about our health care system.

Here we are a year later, and we are actually in worse shape than we were back then. Mr. Speaker, the fact that doctors are coming from the South to provide locum service is a band-aid solution, a quick fix to a desperate situation. This may be all right for someone coming to see a doctor for a minor complaint, but I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that locum services are not all right for our seniors, our disabled, or persons with chronic diseases that need to be monitored closely. It is critical that a treating physician be acutely aware of their medical history. This cannot be done with doctors who come to town on a three-week stint.

Mr. Speaker, I know how frustrating it can be as I have experienced first-hand how hard it is to even get a medical appointment. It is pretty bad to live in a place like Hay River and be told that you have to go to Yellowknife or High Level to get a medical. Mr. Speaker, I find this situation deplorable. Women in Hay River who are pregnant have to go to Yellowknife in order to give birth to their children, as Hay River is not able to provide this very necessary service to its residents.

Mr. Speaker, for the months of August, September and October 2000, there were 17 Hay River mothers who had to give birth to their children in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, it is very important for the residents of Hay River, many of whom were born and raised there, that the birth certificate of their children read Hay River and not Yellowknife. This, Mr. Speaker, has very negative ramifications. Not only is it very expensive for families involved, it creates many hardships. Mr. Speaker, women have to leave home, many times leaving other children and their husbands behind for periods of up to three weeks or more.

This, Mr. Speaker, is unacceptable and I will have questions for the Minister later. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Need For A Resident Doctor In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Coordination In The Delivery Of Social Services Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The other day I spoke on the topic of housing and how the growing economy in a number of communities in the Northwest Territories was opening up new windows of opportunity, but it is also making things tough for the disadvantaged, the poor and the sick. Housing is just one of the areas of concern, Mr. Speaker. I work with a number of constituents on various social services issues and there are a couple of common threads that link all of them. We have seen some advances in the last few years in program and service delivery, such as the blending of territorial and federal income support and employment services at the Canada and Northwest Territories Service Centre.

We have seen NGOs and government working as the Minister for Health and Social Services announced a holistic healing program for women. We have seen the YWCA, the Salvation Army and the Women's Centre taking steps to join forces to work on housing solutions. They need our government's backing to be successful. We should be fostering the spirit of partnership, Mr. Speaker, to give better support to the disadvantaged.

These people often have complex problems. The need for housing support, for instance, is often linked with needs for education, for health problems or justice issues related to family violence and abuse.

In working with constituents, I learned that people in these situations go from office to office. They have to explain their situation over and over again to get help. We would do a lot better if we looked at service delivery from the client's point of view, from the point of view of the single mother with two youngsters traipsing around office to office, from voice mail to voice mail to get answers. A single window approach with one explanation, one face-to-face relationship with a skilled worker who has the time and the resources to do a good job would be a big step.

Yesterday, my colleague for Range Lake referenced the burden of social workers. They are not alone. Income support workers have caseloads that I understand are as much as triple their counterparts in other parts of Canada. Right now they are giving us a signal that their network is at the breaking point. Are we listening?

This Assembly's vision statement promises to foster self-reliant, independent citizens, Mr. Speaker. I believe if we put more emphasis on life skill support, we can help people maintain stability and help them get off that cycle of dependence. I look forward to the Ministers and the social services programs working together to benefit the help that we have for the disadvantaged. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Coordination In The Delivery Of Social Services Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Zero Tolerance For Violence Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on November 3rd, a motion was passed by Members of this Assembly in support of zero tolerance. In that motion, we challenged other governments, municipal governments and aboriginal governments to adopt this motion.

Mr. Speaker, this motion has caused me to reflect back to previous governments and their attempts to deal with zero tolerance, whether it be at this level or with the staff. It brings to mind a particular issue that I recall being rather heated in my community quite a number of years ago. A policy or directive was established that drug and alcohol workers, those who worked in crisis centres, had to live by the zero tolerance standard as well. If you were going to be dealing with addicts, you had to as well be an abstainer.

That raised an issue where we used to have a program in Inuvik with the facility that dealt with drugs and alcohol. Mr. Speaker, that has caused me to find out if in fact this government continues to hold that practice. Do we request board members of drug and alcohol societies to be following the zero tolerance guidelines? In fact, are they still in place? At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister responsible to find out if in fact we still hold this policy in place. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Zero Tolerance For Violence Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Devolution Of Student Financial Assistance Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to touch briefly on the issues of student financial assistance. This is an issue that constantly comes before this House. I am now in my fifth year and since I have come here, I know that it has been raised by myself and many of my colleagues, the concerns about the problems, the complaints that we get from constituents.

The department continues to try to shore-up the system they have in headquarters. They put in advanced, impersonal voice mails. They have put out more forms. They have put out more information. The complaints do not go away, Mr. Speaker, simply because, in my opinion, that is not a program that should be delivered out of headquarters. This is a program that has to be moved as close to the students as possible, to the regional centres, to the large communities where there are career development officers.

It is interesting to note, Mr. Speaker, we do not receive, and I do not receive as an MLA, anywhere near the complaints about income support which is delivered at the community level by social workers where there are appeal committees as I do about student financial assistance because it is a headquarters program. It comes into the Minister's office. It comes into our office and into this House.

So there are fundamental concerns about the receptiveness in all the communities by aboriginal governments and regional centres to have this devolved. The students have asked for it. They have begged for it. This government continues to keep a stranglehold on this program. I have no reason why. It makes no sense. I cannot figure it out after five years. It is shored-up with more sand bags, more machine guns to man the towers and keep this program from the people.

It does not make good government sense, Mr. Speaker, so I would hope that this government would finally take a look at seriously devolving this program. We have made changes that have left some of our students adrift without adequate funding. We have changed the terms of the student financial assistance contract for some of them. Others that should have been entitled to twelve only get eight semesters, leaving some of them incomplete in their studies, having to scramble for money.

If this was located at the community level, at the regional level, Mr. Speaker, I am convinced that we would not be standing up in this House day after day, year after year, talking to the Minister trying to get his attention to move this program where it belongs, closer to the students. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Devolution Of Student Financial Assistance Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Merci, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Grandfathering Changes To The Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, residents of the Northwest Territories should be able to trust their government to deliver what it promises. When government makes a commitment about a program, the public should know it is a pledge. For example, when we promised to support harvesters, that support should be delivered. At self-government tables, aboriginal governments should be able to count on the Government of the Northwest Territories' word.

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to hear the Premier agree with this when I questioned him last Wednesday. I note his response on page 1483 of unedited Hansard.

Not that, Mr. Speaker, the change cannot or will not happen, but when change takes place, promises still need to be respected. Typically, this government does. When the salary for a position is reduced through collective bargaining, the incumbent is protected. Their salary may be red circled, but they are still protected. In the past, when the Business Incentive Policy was changed, firms were grandfathered.

Mr. Speaker, our students deserve the same. I have a constituent who, prior to embarking on a new journey to learn a profession, went to student financial assistance to find out what she would qualify for. She was told that if successful academically, she would qualify for remissible loans through to the end of her program. After one semester in her program, the rules were changed. She no longer qualifies for remissible loans. Mr. Speaker, they must now be repaid.

Mr. Speaker, my constituent is a mature student with a family. Before making a major commitment to change her life and go back to school, she thought long and hard about the benefits available from student financial assistance and her personal financial situation. Mr. Speaker, she was told what to expect, a promise was made. After more than 20 years away from school, she went back. A change part way through a program like that is unfair.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories now has a responsibility to follow up its commitment to her and students like her by grandfathering their benefits to the same level that they were promised. As we moved into the new program, students who were receiving student financial assistance should not have received less than they would have under the old rules. Anything less is neither fair nor equitable, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my constituent and others in the same situation deserve to have this government stand by its promises.

-- Applause

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Grandfathering Changes To The Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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High Cost Of Water And Sewage Services In Fort Mcpherson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I raised a concern in regard to the water system and the costs that have increased in the community of Fort McPherson. Mr. Speaker, the thing that alarmed me in walking through the Great Hall was taking a look at the visitors' book, where visitors who come to this gallery put their name in the book and also a comment or two.

Mr. Speaker, I was surprised to read the comments from the mayor of Fort McPherson, "The meeting never went well", and the comment from John Smith, the same comment but adding "a lack of government support" in that important phrase.

We are here to serve the people, not to serve ourselves, but yet Mr. Speaker, from the meeting that was held yesterday and the comments that I read in the visitors book in the Great Hall, it clearly states that there was no outcome to the satisfaction of the mayor of Fort McPherson, the SAO, and myself as the MLA for the riding. Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of questions to be answered. Why was it that information was withheld from the community of Fort McPherson and the residents of Fort McPherson on the building practice of the Department of Public Works and Services?

The information was only revealed after I made a personal sit-down with the Minister to ask for a list of items and information for the communities. When the community met with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, they were told, after asking for detailed cost breakdowns on a monthly basis, that the information could not be provided.

Yet every month they receive in the mail an invoice for maintenance of the Fort McPherson water plant for $67,000. No questions asked. Pay the bill and be quiet. Mr. Speaker, this problem has been apparent for over two years and this government has made it their priority. Saying it is not a priority of government or saying that it does not stand the test to require emergency funding is not called for. Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister responsible questions on this matter later.

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High Cost Of Water And Sewage Services In Fort Mcpherson

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Changes To The Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government, our responsibility is to provide programs and services that meet the needs of our people. As MLAs, one of our jobs is to share concerns that people are having with the system. Often this comes across as a series of complaints,

whereas in fact they are suggestions to help us make our government system more effective for the people it serves. Having said that, today I would like to focus on this government's attempts to make the student financial system more effective.

-- Applause

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Changes To The Student Financial Assistance Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 756

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Auditor General's Report To The NWT Legislative Assembly

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 756

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to talk about the Auditor General's report to the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly that we will be getting to in committee of the whole. Every year, Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General provides a report to help ensure accountability to the spending of public funds. In effect, they follow the cash right to the program and service delivery level. Typically, the Auditor General makes observations or recommendations to government. It is then up to this House and up to the public to ensure these issues are addressed and corrected.

Mr. Speaker, this goes for traditional line departments as well as crown corporations of this government. After all, Mr. Speaker, it is all public money. To quote the Auditor General Report year ended March 31, 1995, Mr. Speaker:

"Territorial corporations have a different accountability relationship to the Legislative Assembly from that of government departments. Many have boards of directors and other interested stakeholders. Governments have an obligation to make sure that public spending through public agencies meets the same standards for achieving results as departmental spending."

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General, in this year's report, makes some revealing observations in the area of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation. This year's report, Mr. Speaker, taken in isolation, I am sure the public will wonder:

How the Development Corporation can over-expend public money without approval;

How the Development Corporation can provide no information as to whether or not they are achieving their mandate; and

How they can operate on the basis of a confidential record-of-decision issued by FMB in 1989, Mr. Speaker.

However, taken together with the Auditor General's recommendations from the past five years, the public is likely to wonder how the Development Corporation ever survived this long, given an obvious lack of accountability for public funds.

So, Mr. Speaker, when the government responds to the Auditor General's observations and our committee's recommendations this year, before we take them at their word, let us keep in mind their track record. Mr. Speaker, we say that the auditors are the ones who come around after the battle's been lost, stabbed and wounded. I say, Mr. Speaker, this government continues to defy all odds and drag itself back to the field of battle year after year undaunted. It is truly amazing, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Auditor General's Report To The NWT Legislative Assembly

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 756

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Congratulations To New Executive Of The Gwich'in Tribal Council

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 756

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I am pleased to ask my colleagues to share with me as I extend my congratulations to Mr. Fred Carmichael on his election last evening as the new president of the Gwich'in Tribal Council. Also, to Mr. Wilbert Firth who has been elected vice-president. As you know, Mr. Carmichael is a well respected, well-known aviator and an individual throughout the Mackenzie Delta and across the Northwest Territories. I am confident both will provide strong leadership and be able to represent the Gwich'in people of the Mackenzie Delta very well. I look forward to working with both Fred and Wilbert in their new leadership roles with the Gwich'in Nation.

I also wish to recognize the efforts of Mr. Richard Nerysoo, the outgoing president, for his years of hard work and dedication he provided to the Gwich'in people of the Mackenzie Delta. I wish him well and all the best in his future endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Congratulations To New Executive Of The Gwich'in Tribal Council

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 756

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allen . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 756

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 756

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Bienvenue. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Steen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 756

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize in the gallery David Hessdorfer, the recipient of the Governor General of Canada Fire Service Exemplary Service Medal.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 756

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Members, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery a former Member of the Legislative Assembly and a Minister of the government, now a senator for the Northwest Territories, our good friend, Senator Nick Sibbeston.

-- Applause

I thought he was going to make a speech there for awhile. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 756

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize my constituent, Mr. Nick Sibbeston. He was a pioneer in this Legislative Assembly for many years and was a leader of this government, Minister and now he is a Senator. I would like to welcome him to the House as well. Mahsi.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral...I am sorry, Mr. Braden . I will return to Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Speaker's prerogative. Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 757

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is always a pleasure to see families here in the Assembly and along with my colleague, the Minster for Transportation, I would like to recognize from the riding of Great Slave, Mr. Hessdorfer, his wife Joyce, son Craig and daughter Sheila.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to welcome everyone who has taken the time to come and visit us. Welcome to the Assembly. I hope you stay for question period, which is next. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question follows up from my statement. Clearly one incentive my constituent had for going back to school was the financial attractiveness for remissible loans. She got into the program with this incentive from the government only to have it changed to a much less beneficial program, just like a shopper going into a store for a product advertised at a low price only to be told there are no more available, but there is something available at a higher price. Student financial assistance is now offered as part of a bait and switch campaign.

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment stand behind the promises made by his staff and grandfather students whose entitlements were reduced with the recent changes to the student financial assistance program?

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Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the issues I have to refer back to is the Minister's Forum on Student Financial Assistance. Out of that came some recommendations that the focus should be on northern schooled and aboriginal students and that the amount of money to be given to students was to be raised and that the redesign be provided within the financial framework. Mr. Speaker, we have done that. We have provided more money for students. We have focused on more than schooled students and aboriginal students and we have done that within the financial framework.

As a matter of fact, we added $500,000 to the framework, Mr. Speaker. So to live within that, we had to recognize what we could do within the program. Thank you.

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Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It sounded to me like the Minister was saying no, he will not stand behind the promises made. Mr. Speaker, the Minister says that he had to make these changes to live within the financial constraints of the program. Last year, his department lapsed over $800,000 in student financial assistance.

Mr. Speaker, how can this Minister say that we could not deal with these very few students who would be affected by this and still stand behind the promises this government made? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, last year, as Mr. Dent says, and that particular department was under another Minister at that time for a ten-month period. The enrolments are done in the fall and close to winter, Mr. Speaker. So the lapsing of the funding obviously was a case of inappropriate allocations. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that we have modeled this system and our model is coming in on target. We do not expect to lapse a lot of money this year, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Further Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . I must caution Members about references to former positions in government, former Ministers and portfolios. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent , supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the amount of money that is in the program this year is about the same as it was last year and the reductions to some students, the increases to others, should all balance out. I would argue that there cannot be very many students that would be affected by this.

So can the Minister tell us, using the exact same rules that used to apply to student financial assistance, how many students have been cut off from support who would have qualified for support under the old rules?

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Supplementary To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 757

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has to be remembered that the amount of money students receive has been increased. We have increased the amount of assistance for tuition and for books and for living allowance. So there is a lot more money going to students. Our model is proving that we are going to be fairly accurate with our estimates this year and we have put in $500,000 extra, Mr. Speaker. The number of students who could be affected by this depends on the fashion in which you look at transition and grandfathering.

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Further Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ootes . Final supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that there are different ways of looking at this. I asked the Minister if he could give me the numbers in terms of the number of students who have been affected. If we used the old rules, how many people would have received assistance this year who are no longer receiving assistance? Can he give us an actual number?

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Supplementary To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the confusion that lies in there is, is he talking about transition? Is he talking about grandfathering? What is the definition of grandfathering? Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Question 215-14(3): Eligibility For Student Financial Assistance

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. It is in regard to the water system cost breakdown in the community of Fort McPherson.

In regard to the breakdown that I mentioned in my statement, the question was asked at a meeting in Fort McPherson to the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs to provide this information. They were basically told that they would not provide that information or they could not share that information with them.

I would like to ask the honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs why that practice is being practiced within the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in withholding information from the municipalities within our communities?

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Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Allen .

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Return To Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not believe that the information was withheld from the community. We have gone out and worked very diligently to keep them informed. We understand the problems the community is having with their billing. We tried to mediate a solution yesterday. Unfortunately, it was not acceptable and I have no answer as to how we are going to achieve some favourable results. Thank you.

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Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Allen . Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when an MLA gets involved and has to request information, either through this House or directed to a Minister, to have that information revealed to his municipality where I received a letter from my municipality stating that they requested that information and they also requested an investigation on what is happening. That request was to myself as a Member of this House who represents the residents of my riding.

I had to write a letter to the Minister responsible for Public Works requesting that information. Also, I called people within your department requesting that information. So I ask again, why is it that this information was withheld from the municipality of Fort McPherson?

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Supplementary To Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware that any information was withheld. I shall take that question as notice and respond back to the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Question 216-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Service Costs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Allen . The question has been taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned in my Member's statement, there is a serious need to revisit the seniors' fuel subsidy in light of the rising cost of living and rate of inflation. Can the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment inform this Assembly whether there has been any systematic review of this program? Thank you.

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Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 758

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the program has been in effect since 1995. I do not believe it has had a review. Thank you.

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Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In light that there has not been a review in some time, and the current maximum family income for fuel subsidy is $30,744, and that does not seem to be adequate given that the fuel prices have increased and the cost of living has increased, would the Minister consider raising that ceiling to a higher amount as a result of the higher cost of living? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The amount, of course, is done by zone. It is different in different zones. We have three zones. One includes the communities of Dettah, Enterprise, Fort Providence, Hay River, and that area. Then we have the zone that is halfway to the Arctic coast, and then the zone north of there. We have different amounts for those zones. We can certainly have a look at seeing how applicable this amount is today, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, if that answer results into a review, I would also like to ask if the Minister would consider calculation of a cost that would entail supplying a subsidy to all the seniors in the North? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

I am not sure of the question, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I could seek clarification from the Member?

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mr. McLeod , would you be able to clarify that question?

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister was asking if he would consider reviewing the program and costing out what it would take to include all the seniors in the Northwest Territories under this program.

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Minister Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We would have to take into consideration other programs that we have in place. We can certainly have a look at it, Mr. Speaker, but I do not know what kind of time frame could be supplied. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you. I take that as a commitment, and I would like to ask if there would be any kind of time frame that we would be looking at for a review. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . This is a bit of a confusing question because I think that is what the Minister wondered about as well. Mr. Minister, you may answer if you choose.

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Further Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we would have to see what kind of workload this entails. I cannot make a commitment on the time frame. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Question 217-14(3): Review Of Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, aboriginal studies in the curriculum relate to self-confidence by aboriginal people and how that relates to self-esteem. Self-esteem has always been an aboriginal issue in terms of education. With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Education , what effort is the Department of Education making to ensure aboriginal culture is taught at every grade level in the school system? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 759

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of programs that the department runs that contain aboriginal language content and aboriginal culture matters. For example, we have Dene Kede, which is taught up to grade 6 and will be expanded to include grades 7, 8, and 9. As well, we have Inuuqatigiit, which is a similar program.

The teaching and learning centres are continually working on material and resources that could be used for aboriginal languages, could be used for aboriginal content. There are a variety of these. In addition, the Western Canadian Protocol, the aboriginal language area is being headed by the territorial government to include aboriginal culture in the social studies framework. Thank you.

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Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, regarding the Minister's answers, I acknowledged quite a bit of that in my Member's statement and it is great work that they are doing. However, as I pointed out in my Member's statement, there is no continuity in the delivery of aboriginal language and aboriginal curriculum. I would like to ask the Minister for the Department of Education what he plans to do to ensure that there is continuity in the delivery of aboriginal curriculum? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a variety of programs that communities and schools and districts can choose from in the curriculum. Northern studies program is one, for example, and Dene Kede, as I mentioned. These are available. Also, schools can choose to provide first language in the aboriginal language if they so choose. So it is partially up to the community in consultation, of course, with the district education councils. A lot of authority is passed on at the community level in that respect. We do feel that the programs are consistent across the board. The curriculum is standard. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the schools are going to pick and choose, I do not think there is any continuity in that. What I would like to know is are there any other aboriginal cultures outside the Northwest Territories, such as the Aztec culture and history, being taught in our school system? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member has a very good point. What is taught in terms of North American aboriginal history within our system? That is one that I have already spoken to the department about to ensure that they start addressing these issues and bring it forward to the teaching and learning centres, as well as to the district education councils. I meet on a semi-annual basis with the chairs, so this could be a subject of discussion again in that respect. I appreciate the Member's concern. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The South Slave Divisional Educational Council was allocated $15.2 million for the 1999-2000 school year. What portion of that amount went to teaching about aboriginal culture, Mr. Speaker? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have to take that as notice because I do not have the answer on that, but I will get the answer for the Member. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Question 218-14(3): Aboriginal Studies And Self-esteem

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

The supplementary has been taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my Member's statement, the fact that women have to leave Hay River and come to Yellowknife to give birth has many negative impacts. For most families, the birth of a child is a family event. There are many things that make this next to impossible when women have to come to Yellowknife. For example, husbands are working and they may have other children who are in school at the present time. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services what we can do to help these families that have to leave Hay River and come to Yellowknife to give birth? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 760

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, obviously the best solution to this problem would be if we could recruit some resident positions for Hay River. However, in the immediate future, it does not seem as if that is going to happen, although the health board and the department have been very active in attempting to recruit physicians for Hay River. Now when patients, mothers need to come here to have babies, they are asked to come three weeks in advance of the delivery date. That does cause issues of separation from family, care for the other children that may be in the family, accommodation and travel. It raises a lot of not only financial, but also practical issues for families.

Recognizing that, Mr. Speaker, I have asked the department to look at what kind of support we might be able to offer to women from Hay River and other communities, for that matter, who find themselves having to come into the community ahead of time. I think it is a very important issue the Member raises, and certainly we hear about it in Hay River as a very high priority. Thank you.

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Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the Minister raises a point of cost factor and when you look at having to come to Yellowknife for three weeks and being responsible for travel, accommodations and meals, for a lot of the women, they do not have...they are not covered by any plan, and that gets to be very expensive. Could the Minister inform us as to whether there are dollars in place to be able to help these families that are finding themselves in that situation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the patient or the mother themselves, there is accommodation available through the boarding home here, but that does not take into account that husbands may wish to accompany women to be with them and they would not be able to access that service. I have asked the department to look at what we might be able to do in terms of temporary accommodation for them to offset the costs of this.

As far as travel goes, it is like any other medical travel. Only those people who do not qualify for full coverage and are involved in the co-payment would be expected to pay. However, those people are a fairly significant portion of the population in Hay River. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was wondering what other professionals is Hay River in need of, apart from a full-time doctor, to enable women to give birth in their home community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, it is quite a well known fact that a lot of young doctors who are graduating from medical schools now are not interested in obstetrics. They are not interested in delivering babies. So even in some of the communities that do have resident physicians, birthing is still a problem. To the best of my knowledge, if Hay River did have a qualified physician and also a physician with a specialty in being able to offer anaesthetic services, that is all that would be required. A GP with a specialty designation for anaesthetics is all that would be required in order to reinstate the service in Hay River for delivering babies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have done a bit of research in other jurisdictions in the Western Arctic with regard to their doctor situation. In Inuvik, they have a population of 3,500 and currently employ 5.5 doctors. In Fort Smith, they currently employ two permanent doctors with a population of 2,500. In Yellowknife, they employ 20 doctors with a population of 18,000. Mr. Speaker, 20 doctors in Yellowknife seems to be a pretty rich situation. Is there anything the Minister can do to supply Hay River with a doctor out of Yellowknife on a part-time basis or on a rotation basis that can enable Hay River women to stay and give birth in their own community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the specialists do travel to the communities, including Hay River, to provide specialty services. As far as redeploying physicians from Yellowknife to serve Hay River on a rotating basis, I do not know. We have just got up to 20 physicians and that is not a full complement for Yellowknife either. I think that those physicians work under contract to the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Board. I do not know if there would be any interest in providing that kind of service in Hay River. It is certainly a question we could ask, but I think that we have just recently alleviated the very serious shortage in Yellowknife as well.

I would say that 20 is not a full complement of physicians here yet. If they had a full complement of physicians, I should say, that may be something that could be posed to them as a question, but right now I do not think that the workforce here would facilitate that. We have to be creative. We have to look at all different kinds of options. The Member mentioned that there are physicians resident in other major communities and the CEO of the Hay River board informs me that it is not a money issue. It is just trying to find a physician that matches the community and certainly there is a shortage Canada-wide, so we are doing our best to address that problem. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Question 219-14(3): Assistance To Hay River Families

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 761

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question goes as well to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services . In my Member's statement, I discussed the past where the government put into practice zero tolerance for its staff at drug and alcohol centres. I would like to know is that practice still in place here in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Madam Groenewegen.

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Return To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my information tells me that indeed the Member is correct. In the early '90s, it was the policy of the department that drug and alcohol workers not drink or consume drugs. I do not know if that was called zero tolerance or it was some kind of a sobriety clause that was attached to their employment. In the mid-90s, responsibility for alcohol and drug workers was transferred to non-government agencies and so with that transfer did not come such a policy. So if we were to suggest such a thing, it would be up to the agencies who actually employ the drug and alcohol workers to implement it. Thank you.

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Return To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we could give our motion a little more bite if we went back to the groups and ask them to put this in place. We are challenging other government leaders to take up our stance on zero tolerance. Are there any plans to proceed to boards and request them to follow zero tolerance? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is referring to zero tolerance, which is a terminology which refers to family violence and violence. I do not think it specifically refers to the consumption of alcohol. As far as what we might do as the government in reference to the zero tolerance, we have challenged other governments and other leaders and communities to make a proclamation, sign a proclamation in respect to zero tolerance for violence.

As far as the sobriety condition for drug and alcohol workers or codes of conducts, those are the kinds of things that we can set out prototypes of standards for non-government agencies, accommodate them in that way and then leave it up to them whether their boards of directors would like to adopt such a policy. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fact is we do fund these organizations from public monies, is there an avenue that is open that we could challenge the boards from within the realm of your department to institute something along these lines of zero tolerance just to give more bite to what we have done to try to be more proactive? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Further Return To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what we could commit to do is develop a code of conduct that would be standardized. It could then go out to the various regions and the various agencies and they could then take it to their boards and see if there would be an interest in adopting it rather than just asking people to do it without anything in hand that might be an example of such a code of conduct. I could commit to our department developing that.

As for the funding that we offer to these agencies, whether or not we could make that a condition of the funding or not, I do not know. I would have to think about that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Question 220-14(3): Zero Tolerance Challenge Outside Government

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 762

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would not want to cut off any funding from the already poor state we find ourselves in when it comes to drug and alcohol facilities in the Northwest Territories. The Minister did state she could put this in place. I think what she just suggested is an excellent idea, so my question is will she, in fact, look at developing this and bringing it forward to the health boards and other boards out there that deal with this critical area? Thank you.

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