Debates of Oct. 2nd, 1992

This is page numbers 1291 - 1340 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Implementation Plan

Reconstruction Of Highway #3 To Yellowknife

Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Contributions Of Mackenzie Delta Residents

Government's Response To Proposed Airline Merger

Hon. J. Arvaluk's Visit To Sahtu

T.f.n. Land Claim Ratification

T.f.n. Ratification Committee Tours

T.f.n. Ratification Committee Tour

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Question O914-12(2): Recognition Of Metis As Distinct, Aboriginal People

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O918-12(2): Planning Strategy For Regional Councils

Question O919-12(2): Travel By Court Circuit

Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Question O921-12(2): Department Of Education Human Resource Plan

Question O922-12(2): Cost For Travel To Appear In Court

Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Adopt Recommendation No. 86

To Adopt Recommendation No. 87

To Adopt Recommendation No. 88

To Adopt Recommendation No. 89

To Adopt Recommendation No. 90

To Adopt Recommendation No. 91

To Adopt Recommendation No. 92

To Adopt Recommendation No. 93

To Adopt Recommendation No. 97

To Adopt Recommendation No. 94

To Adopt Recommendation No. 95

To Adopt Recommendation No. 96

To Adopt Recommendation No. 82

To Adopt Recommendation No. 83

To Adopt Recommendation No. 84

To Adopt Recommendation No. 85

To Adopt Recommendation No. 29

To Adopt Recommendation No. 30

To Adopt Recommendation No. 68

To Adopt Recommendation No. 69

To Adopt Recommendation No. 70

To Adopt Recommendation No. 31

To Adopt Recommendation No. 33

To Adopt Recommendation No. 34

To Adopt Recommendation No. 35

To Receive Response Of Review Of 1992-93 Main Estimates Within 120 Days

Bill 33: Appropriation Act, 1992-93

Committee Report 20-12(2): Interim Report No. 2 Of The Special Committee On Health And Social Services

To Adopt Recommendation From Committee Report 20-12(2)

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 33: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1992-93

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, 1992-93

Bill 34-12(2): Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1992-93

Revert Back To Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Amend The

Schedule To Bill 34

Revert Back To Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93

Revert To Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Revert To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Hon. Dennis Patterson , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. Tony Whitford

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1291

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Before I begin with the orders of the day, I would like to read a letter from the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, it is addressed to myself, as Speaker.

Dear, Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories, the passage of Bill 34 , supplementary appropriation Act No. 2, 1992-93, during the second Session of the 12th Legislative Assembly. Yours truly, D.L. Norris, Commissioner.

Also, I would like to recognize in the gallery this morning, the grade 11 law class from Sir John Franklin High School, and their instructor, Michael Madore.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Patterson .

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Minister's Statement 105-12(2): Implementation Plan

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1291

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, later today, I will be tabling the Department of Health's implementation plan for recommendations made by the abortion service review committee.

All of the committee's recommendations have been accepted. The implementation plan was developed in collaboration with Stanton Yellowknife Hospital and regional health boards.

Many of the recommendations, especially those dealing with procedures at Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, have already been acted on. Other recommendations will take some time to implement.

The cost of implementing those recommendations, for which costing has been possible, is about $250,000 in 1992-93, with continuing costs of about $150,000 in succeeding years.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health wishes to acknowledge the cooperation and assistance of the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital, hospital and health boards, the Northwest Territories Council on the Status of Women, and N.W.T. professional organizations, in the development of this plan. Qujannamiik.

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Minister's Statement 105-12(2): Implementation Plan

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1291

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ministers' statements. Mr. Whitford .

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Minister's Statement 106-12(2): Reconstruction Of Highway #3 To Yellowknife

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1291

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to clarify an answer I gave to a question from the Member for Yellowknife Centre , on Monday, September 28, 1992.

Mr. Speaker, in my answer I indicated to the Member that the Department of Transportation plans to complete the reconstruction of highway number three from Fort Providence all the way to Yellowknife within the next five years.

I am afraid in my enthusiasm for this project my statement was overly optimistic. By the end of the next five years, the five year period, the department's reconstruction and paving program will have reached Rae-Edzo, and a start will have been made to the final

section to Yellowknife.

Although it is true that the heaviest traffic on highway three is between Yellowknife and Fort Rae, the road between Fort Providence and Edzo, as the Member for Deh Cho attested to in the House last week, is structurally very weak and in much poorer condition.

The department has scheduled its reconstruction program to attend to the worst sections of the highway first.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 106-12(2): Reconstruction Of Highway #3 To Yellowknife

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1291

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1291

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about the commentary given on C.B.C. radio on September 30. In this commentary, Danielle Whitworth argues that the federal government is pursuant in the policy of assimilation of aboriginal people, and that by agreeing to the proposed Charlottetown Accord, our leaders have been pulled, perhaps unwillingly, into this process.

Mr. Speaker, as a strong advocate of the Charlottetown Accord, and an aboriginal leader, I must disagree with Ms. Whitworth. It is my firm belief, that this accord will, for the first time since confederation, allow aboriginal people to begin to solve some of the problems that they are faced with in terms of health, housing, education, etc.

The entrenchment of self-government in the Constitution allows aboriginal people to implement their own solutions to those pressing problems. Unlike, Ms. Whitworth, I believe that assimilation occurs and is occurring because aboriginal people have no control over the process that shapes our own lives.

To a large extent our institution, programs, or services within aboriginal communities, whether they be health, justice, education or housing, have been based on European models. This is an assimilation. To stop this, we must reinstate our own value systems into our communities and organizations.

I believe that one step in this process is the realization of aboriginal self-government. Despite the flaws, I believe that the Charlottetown Accord presents a unique opportunity for aboriginal people to take some measures of control over their own lives through this self-government process.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, Ms. Whitworth argues that aboriginal women have been unjustly served by the accord and by male aboriginal leaders. That the accord will mean nothing more than the continued poverty and oppression of the rights of aboriginal women. Chief Wendy Grey of the Assembly of First Nations has suggested the opposite, that the women and the aboriginal women have never done that well under the Charter of Rights. This can only be an improvement.

Mr. Speaker, I can only speak from my perspective as an aboriginal person in the Northwest Territories, when I look around and see...

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Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Gargan , you allotted time has lapsed. Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would ask for unanimous consent to continue my statement.

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Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please proceed, Mr. Gargan .

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Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and honourable Members. Mr. speaker, I can only speak from my perspective as an aboriginal person in the Northwest Territories. When I look around and see the increasing number of aboriginal leaders, who are women, leaders such as Nellie Cournoyea , Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Rosemarie Kuptana, Erna Landry, Mary Simon, and Bernadette Unka. I know that aboriginal women are in the forefront of the fight for aboriginal rights, at least in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement Regarding C.b.c. Commentary On Charlottetown Accord

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Contributions Of Mackenzie Delta Residents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to continue to respond to some of the remarks that have been made about my questions, but even more so, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to indicate to Members that on September 21, 1992, Mr. Speaker, I had an opportunity, after hearing of the tragic situation that occurred here in Yellowknife.

I heard about, like all Members, that a trust fund had been established for the families who had suffered in the tragedy during the Royal Oak Mine disaster. I wrote to my constituents, Mr. Speaker, asking them to come to the aid of the families and the children of those miners who perished. Mr. Speaker, I asked my constituents, and in fact asked my leaders, to participate in contributing to the trust fund for the families.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you today, that my constituents have contributed, or at least committed to over $2,000 to the trust fund.

---Applause

I hope, Mr. Speaker, this shows that there is compassion in Members of this House, compassion and understanding in other constituencies about the tragedies that involve the residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Contributions Of Mackenzie Delta Residents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo . Oral questions, Mr. Lewis . Sorry, Members' statements, Mr. Lewis .

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Government's Response To Proposed Airline Merger

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over a week ago, I asked several questions about the proposed merger between Canadian Airlines International and Air Canada in question period, and the question is recorded in the unedited transcript as 777-12(2). I was very concerned at that time, when I asked Mr. Whitford about this proposed merger, to find that, in fact, this responsibility had been transferred to Mr. Pollard , the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , because of the huge economic impact this kind of merger would have on the residents of the Northwest Territories, in fact, to all of western Canada.

Mr. Speaker, one week from now, on October 9, the three senior officers of both airlines will be meeting in order to decide how this merger will work, who will be the senior executive officer, and to work out the details of this merger. Since, very clearly, the Government Leader , our Premier , has determined that this is of such a huge vital concern for all people in the Northwest Territories, that she has handed it over to her Minister of Finance and the Minister of Economic Development .

I am somewhat alarmed to find that this government is the only government that, to date, has not responded to the requests of Canadian Airline International employees, who tried to get support all across the country, to save the airline and it disappoints me somewhat, that at least yesterday, we could not give them any kind of response.

So, it disappoints me that if it is such a huge issue for us and we recognize the impact it may have on us, that, to date, we have not responded to the requests of all the people that work for that airline to do something to help save it. Thank you.

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Government's Response To Proposed Airline Merger

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Hon. J. Arvaluk's Visit To Sahtu

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I would like to just make a short statement of appreciation to the new Minister of Education , Mr. James Arvaluk .

Earlier this year, when he was appointed as the new Minister of Education , many of my constituents asked some questions about him. They wanted to know who he was, and asked me to tell them a little bit about him. I told them that he was Inuk, from the Keewatin. I said that he was a very intelligent man who was very interested and excited about his work in education, and that he had a good sense of humour.

Last weekend, Mr. Arvaluk and myself went to my constituency, and in a day and a half, we went to Fort Franklin, Fort Norman, Norman Wells, and Fort Good Hope. I wanted to thank him on behalf of my communities and my constituents. They got to see for themselves the kind of person he is, and I want to thank him for showing the interest and taking the time out of his weekend to come and visit my constituents, and for not making a liar out of me. Thank you.

---Applause

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Hon. J. Arvaluk's Visit To Sahtu

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Allooloo .

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T.f.n. Land Claim Ratification

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1292

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

(Translation) Qujannamiik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to make a brief comment concerning the Tungavik land claims settlement, and their destination for self-government in the future.

Today, I was in my constituency, I mean I was there last week, in Igloolik, and they had many concerns about land claims. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that our future and our own government is going to be our goal for the people from my region.

What I am trying to say to the people in our lands, on the day of election, that being November 3, 4, and 5, I urge them to vote "yes" because, of course, it would mean that if the "no" vote wins, we will not have our land claim, and as a result, we will not have our self-government in our future, which is our goal for 1992.

Today, Mr. Speaker, we are told that the aboriginal people of Nunavut are simply borrowing this land according to the laws of today. This land apparently belongs to the government. First, we want our own homeland, and that is why we want our own land claims.

We want legal recognition that this land is ours. The eligible voters will be aged 16 and up. I will urge them to vote "yes", so that we can have our own lands in the future because, as of yesterday, we are simply borrowing this land. Thank you.

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T.f.n. Land Claim Ratification

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1293

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Pudluk .

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T.f.n. Ratification Committee Tours

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1293

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

Qujannamiik. (Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to the comments made by my colleague, the Member for Amittuq , there are tours being done by the chief and committee. This is for our future, and it is very important. It is toward the vote.

If I was able to join them, I would be prepared to go along with the tours in my constituency. At this time, it will, of course, be up to the people to vote whichever way they prefer, be it "yes" or "no", but I think that more people should vote "yes" as opposed to the "no" votes.

We have been working towards this for a very long time, and we are trying to look at it from the positive side. I think we will be better organized, and that is the way we are trying to look at it. When they decided on the boundary issue, the majority of the vote was for it. The positive vote prevailed, and this is another confirmation of that earlier vote, which is to decide on a positive vote.

We have to look at our past as well as our future, and we have to remember our descendants who will still be here many years after we are underground. There will be a better future for them, more opportunities for them, and that is the way that we want to vote. I urge the people from my constituency to vote.

I tell you there should be more of you to vote "yes" in the upcoming Nunavut Land Claims Ratification Vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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T.f.n. Ratification Committee Tours

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1293

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Pudlat .

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T.f.n. Ratification Committee Tour

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1293

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also, on the same issue, I have some concerns. The tour was in Lake Harbour recently. I am not sure if they are still there, but I send my apologies to my constituents for not being able to be at their communities, because I was interested in participating with the completion of the budget.

I have some concerns I have to address on this issue, so I want to send my apologies to the people in my constituency, particularly people from Cape Dorset and Lake Harbour. If I leave today, maybe I will be able to charter in, but I understand that they will be meetings in Lake Harbour over the weekend, and guess my constituencies will be using their freedom to vote either way. I also remind them that it is good to vote the "yes" vote.

I also want to reiterate my apologies. I was not quite sure what was happening on the land claims issue. Be that as it may, I know the people involved are working very hard toward it, and I cannot help it if I am not there. I am sure that the people on the ratification committee are informing the people, as they need to be informed, and it will be up to each individual to vote the way they want.

I apologize that I will not be in that constituency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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T.f.n. Ratification Committee Tour

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1293

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question O906-12(2): Consultation With Home Owners Regarding Flood Damages

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1293

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Nerysoo on September 30, 1992, regarding consultation with Aklavik homeowners regarding flood damages.

During the flood in Aklavik in June 1992, the Regional Emergency Coordinating Committee was mobilized. The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is the Government department mandated to coordinate emergency response and assistance.

The Department of Public Works provided support to this committee in several ways. One of the tasks during this period was to assist M.A.C.A. and the hamlet to carry out post-flood damage assessments. Following the instructions of the emergency coordinator, which was the regional superintendent of M.A.C.A., D.P.W. worked directly with Aklavik's senior administrative officer, and obtained a list of properties that were damaged by the flood.

Residents of Aklavik were encouraged by the hamlet to report to the hamlet any property damages that occurred during the flood. Based on the hamlet's list of people that had flood damage, the D.P.W. Area Maintenance Officer and the Settlement Maintenance Supervisor visited these people to determine the extent of their damages. D.P.W. then prepared a Flood Damage Assessment Report which included cost estimates of the damages. D.P.W. sent this report to the Superintendent of M.A.C.A. on July 2 for their review with the hamlet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O906-12(2): Consultation With Home Owners Regarding Flood Damages

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1293

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question O853-12(2): Increase Of G.n.w.t. Aboriginal Employment

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1293

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have two returns. One is in response to a question asked by Mr. Zoe . I hope he is listening to this.

---Laughter It was a question regarding the increase of G.N.W.T. aboriginal employment. The Department of Health has a staff of Human Resource Planning Officers, who are working on a long-term strategic plan for increasing the number of aboriginal people within our territorial health administration. I have also assigned a Human Resource Officer from the Department of Personnel to provide support and assistance to the Department of Health.

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Return To Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1293

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

The second return is in response to a question asked by Mrs. Jeannie Marie-Jewell on September 28, 1992, I know she is listening. This is with regard to authority responsible for delivery of legal documents to the board of inquiry. With regard to the Member's question pertaining to a proceeding before a board of inquiry established under the Medical Profession Act, this independent board does have independent legal counsel being provided through government funding.

A notice of the hearing is required under the Act, and must state the substance of the allegations. It is not an appropriate task for the board's independent legal counsel to draft and forward this notice of the hearing for service. For that reason, the board's legal counsel asked legal counsel to the Department of Health and Health Boards to do so. As you know, the Department of Health's legal counsel is a lawyer with the Department of Justice.

That is why legal counsel from the Department of Justice initiated the service of this one document, the only document which has been served to date. This ensures that the board does not have advance notice of the allegations before the hearing. At the hearing, parties have the opportunity to be present, including the Doctor, the board, counsel to the board, counsel to the doctor, and counsel to present evidence of the allegations. Counsel presenting the evidence of the allegations is generally a lawyer assigned by the Department of Justice, and will be, in this case. Thank you.

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Return To Question O868-12(2): Authority Responsible For Delivery Of Legal Documents To Board Of Inquiry

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1294

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O880-12(2): Surveys For Relocation Of Lake Harbour Airstrip

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1294

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to oral question asked by Ms. Mike on September 29, 1992, concerning the relocation of the Lake Harbour airstrip.

On Tuesday, September 29, the Member from Baffin Central asked me if the Department of Transportation has done any studies to consider alternate locations for the Lake Harbour airport.

Mr. Speaker, in 1989, the department commissioned a study by the consulting firm of J.L. Richards and Associates Ltd., of Ottawa, to examine possible sites for a new airport in Lake Harbour. The study examined six alternate locations and recommended a site about three kilometres west of the community near Water Lake.

The Water Lake site would accommodate a 1,000 metre, that is a 3,000 foot, runway properly aligned for the prevailing winds in the area. Furthermore, the site is open for aircraft approaches and fee of the large hills which interfere with the approaches to the existing airport.

For infrastructure planning purposes, the department has accepted the conclusion of the 1989 Lake Harbour Land Development Study, that the Water Lake site is the preferred location for a new airport.

However, this is a very expensive project. The Department estimates that the cost of the airport's construction would come to approximately $14 million. By comparison, the final cost of the new airport in Paulatuk will be about $4.2 million, and the major improvements planned for the Pelly Bay airport are expected to cost about $3 million.

Given that Lake Harbour has an airport adequate for the community's air traffic, and that the airport meets Transport Canada's standards for V.F.R. certification, the department has deferred the Water Lake airport project until it has first brought all of its community airports serving isolated off-highway communities up to Transport Canada's licensing standards. Thank you.

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Return To Question O880-12(2): Surveys For Relocation Of Lake Harbour Airstrip

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1294

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Return To Question O731-12(20: Number Of Doctors From Saskatchewan

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1294

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to an oral question asked by Ms. Marie-Jewell on September 10. Mr. Speaker, on September 10, 1992, the honourable Member from Thebacha sought confirmation on the number of Saskatchewan doctors involved in the review of medical services, at the Fort Smith Health Centre.

With a knowledge of the size of the facility, and the services provided, no surgery or anaesthesia, and only low-risk obstetrics, the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons drew upon its extensive experience in conducting such reviews, and selected two physicians to complete the review.

No written change was made to the terms of reference to state that two physicians, rather than four or five, would conduct a review. This decision to reduce the team to two members was made in advance, solely by the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons, and communicated to the health centre more than three weeks before the review. No objection was made by the administration board, or medical staff.

The number of physician hours the Saskatchewan college used to perform the review is consistent with the estimate of the number of physician hours quoted to the health centre by the Alberta College of Physicians and Surgeons. In the view of the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons to have had four or five physicians perform the review would have been unnecessary and very costly to the health centre.

The Executive Director of the Fort Smith Health Centre acted on the motion of the board of management of the Fort Smith Health Centre to have the view conducted by the Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons. While it was not explicitly stated in the minutes of the meeting it was implied that the Executive Director should initiate the drafting of the terms of reference.

The medical staff and the board's legal counsel had an opportunity to review the terms of reference before they were provided to the Saskatchewan college as final. Each member of the board was given a copy of the final terms of reference. Thank you.

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Return To Question O731-12(20: Number Of Doctors From Saskatchewan

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1294

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 907-12(2): Discontinuing Use Of Leg Hold Traps

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1295

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Antoine on September 30, 1992 regarding discontinuing use of leg hold traps.

Present statistics show that between 74-80 percent of the wild fur taken in Canada is sold in Europe. Without this market, there will be no fur industry.

The European economic community recently passed legislation that will come into effect on January 1, 1995. At that time, it will be illegal to import fur from any jurisdiction that still allows the use of the leg hold trap for any of the thirteen species. They are: beaver, coyote, lynx, raccoon, fisher, marten, otter, wolf, bobcat, muskrat, badger, mink, and Russian sable.

Originally, this legislation was to come into effect in 1992. However, because of successful lobbying by the Fur Institute of Canada, Indigenous Survival International, Members of our government, and many others, the European economic community agreed to delay this legislation for three years.

By changing the way our trappers trap we will be ready to keep our share in the European market after 1995. The change over to quick kill traps is a small price to pay to keep trapping alive in the Northwest Territories.

In 1988, knowing of the European Economic Community legislation, all Canadian wildlife Ministers agreed to implement 12 changes recommended by the Fur Institute of Canada to keep trapping a viable lifestyle for all Canadians. Our government decided to phase in those 12 recommendations over four years. Other governments have also been introducing these changes.

We chose to delay the requirement for quick kill traps for small fur bearing animals until the third year of our four year plan to change trapping regulations. This allowed us time to inform our trappers and show them how to use new traps. Throughout this time, trap exchange workshops have been offered throughout the western territories. To date over 30,000 quick kill traps have been exchanged and 1,600 trappers have attended workshops.

As well, we have publicly advertised our intention to require to use quick kill traps for small fur bearers for the past three years.

The new legislation came into effect on October 1, 1992 on the use of leg hold traps for small fur bearing animals. The regulation states, "while hunting fur bearing animals, no person shall use a trap on land, other than a quick kill trap, box or cage, for beaver, fisher, marten, mink, muskrat, skunk, squirrel, weasel, or wolverine."

The use of the leg hold trap will still be legal in drowning sets for aquatic species, and for large fur bearers like fox, wolf and lynx.

Next year, we will introduce the last change which is that all first time trappers will need to take a trapper training course.

During a live phone-in program held by C.B.C. radio on September 30, 80 percent of the trappers that called in were in favour of the new legislation and supported the use of quick kill trapping systems.

The department's regional staff will continue to assist trappers with the change over. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 907-12(2): Discontinuing Use Of Leg Hold Traps

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1295

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question O877-12(2): Transfer Of Social Assistance Responsibility

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1295

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have a late arrival here. This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Antoine on September 29, 1992 in regard to transfer of social assistance responsibility.

As indicated by the honourable Member, Dennis Patterson , in his reply to the Member's earlier questions on the same topic, the Ministry of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs will coordinate the government's response to requests from Fort Liard for the transfer of social assistance responsibility.

Mr. Patterson advises me that he has approved the band's request for funding to participate in the transfer process. Officials from the Ministry of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, will be in contact with the Fort Liard Band within the next two weeks to discuss the proposal and to arrange for a time to meet to begin discussing the proposal. Thank you.

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Return To Question O877-12(2): Transfer Of Social Assistance Responsibility

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1295

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 807-12(2): Amount Expended On Flood Damage

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1295

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Nerysoo on September 17, 1992.

There were no expenditures on flood damage incurred in the communities referred to the by honourable Member. However, the 1992 spring breakup in the western Arctic led to the activation of emergency response procedures in several communities in designated flood risk areas on the Hay, Liard and Mackenzie Rivers to prepare for potential flooding or the evacuation of residents.

As a part of these activations, the Department of Social Services expended $1,466.22 in Hay River and the Hay River Reserve. No G.N.W.T. departments incurred expenses in Fort Liard during the flood alert period. The Town of Hay River expended $55,834 in flood preparations in 1992 and some of these expenditures may have been eligible for cost-sharing under the flood control assistance policy. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 807-12(2): Amount Expended On Flood Damage

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1295

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1295

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a long question, so when my time is up, just let me know.

My question is to the Minister of Justice . I am concerned about the problems experienced in the eastern Arctic with respect to solvent abuse. Recently, the Hamlet Council in Cape Dorset discussed the fact that alcohol, and solvents, are both problems.

Although the Liquor Act gives us some weight to control the amount of liquor shipped to the community, we have no way to effectively control the availability of solvents.

In the past, the idea has been raised that the Government of the Northwest Territories should develop legislation to control the use of solvents, and better counselling services should be developed for solvent abusers.

This idea has been put forward in the past by Pauktuutit and by several alcohol and drug projects. Can the Minister of Justice indicate whether his department would be able to introduce legislation that creates stiffer penalties for abusers and for people who supply solvents to abusers?

One of the main problems we encounter is that solvent abusers and their families resist going for counselling. Is the Minister willing to consider introducing legislation that would allow a judge or a justice of the peace to make an order forcing the solvent abusers to receive counselling by experts?

This has been a concern for a long time, so I wanted to bring this up. Often solvent abusers cannot change their ...

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Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

After you have actually asked a question, then it is not appropriate to carry on with a

preamble. I think you have made yourself very clear, and Minister of Justice , would you like to respond?

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Return To Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Member addresses an area of social concern that is in the responsibility of health in some instances, and social services, but those parts that he read to me, I can try to respond to.

The fact is, as far as I know, as a lay person, I do not know of how we can legislate availability of commercial products and restrict the sale of commercial products because certain members of the community are abusing the use of them? There are ways in which, I think, communities, like Cape Dorset, can, by itself, find ways to restrict the availability at a local level. I do not know that we can find legislation that can do that.

I believe the best recourse is for the community to discuss with the appropriate government officials how they could negotiate some agreement with the outlets at the community level to restrict the availability of these products.

As far as whether or not we can find legislation that would make it mandatory for solvent abusers to take counselling, again, I can ask the department to prove me wrong, but it seems to me that I do not know how we can force anyone to take counselling, to make it mandatory for anyone to take counselling because these are things that only work if the individual in question is willing to participate. If they are willing to admit they have a problem, and that they want to work as much as they can towards addressing the source of the problem.

So, that is the response that I have. I understand that it is a major concern for the Member, but I am not certain that passing legislation would be an answer, aside from the fact that the problem would still be there. It would just make it a crime, perhaps, an offence, to continue to do so. Perhaps, then, our best approach would be to look at ways in which we could respond to the Member's concerns by discussing with officials who may be able to advise the community on what they can do themselves to get some handle on the nature of the problem.

To seek, and identify the source of the problem that gives rise to young people, and adults abusing their bodies, and their minds through the use of solvents. Thank you.

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Return To Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral question, supplementary, Mr. Pudlat .

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Supplementary To Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am just trying to give some ideas to the government as to what should be done because this is a big concern in the communities, and this was discussed also during the Pauktuutit Conferences. I know that this is a concern all over the Northwest Territories, not only in Cape Dorset.

If legislation cannot be made, I think there should be ways of dealing with these problems to try to stop the people from abusing solvents. I know that all over Canada there have been deaths with regard to solvent abuse. Will this be dealt with in the future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I think that what I will do is take note of the Member's concerns, the ones that he raised in his first question, and in the supplementary, and ask the Minister of Social Services , and Health, to assist me in getting a more detailed response to the Member at a later date. Thank you.

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Question O912-12(2): Legislation On Solvent Abuse

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . Earlier this session, I was advised by the former Minister that the department was working towards concluding negotiations with at least one municipality for a block funding agreement for the next year. I was wondering if the Minister could advise me as to what progress has been made toward this end?

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Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our officials from the department and also from the municipalities have concluded talks. It will be up to the politicians now to finish the deal. The paperwork is very well prepared for me to take to Cabinet but we have not had time, really, to deal with the agreement. Thank you.

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Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. Will the Minister, again, confirm to the House that the goal is to have this agreement completed for the next year?

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Supplementary To Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1296

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In short, yes, but I would like to conclude the arrangement as soon as possible.

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Further Return To Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Question O913-12(2): Negotiations On Block Funding Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question O914-12(2): Recognition Of Metis As Distinct, Aboriginal People

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs . In the Constitution Act,

section 35 recognizes the rights of aboriginal peoples of Canada, and under

section 35-1, existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed. In

section 35-2 of this act, aboriginal peoples of Canada include the Indian, Inuit and Metis peoples of Canada.

My question to the Minister is, does the Minister recognize the Metis as distinct, aboriginal peoples?

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Question O914-12(2): Recognition Of Metis As Distinct, Aboriginal People

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O914-12(2): Recognition Of Metis As Distinct, Aboriginal People

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O914-12(2): Recognition Of Metis As Distinct, Aboriginal People

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Yes, I would like the Premier , who is taking on the responsibility for the Economic Development and Tourism portfolio, a question. In light of the fact that both gold mines in Yellowknife are going to be operating with far, far fewer people in future, in fact, we all recognize that these are non-renewable resources. Eventually, they will no longer be with us, and since our government has already begun to decentralize functions out of Yellowknife and plans to do more. What is there in the economic plan of this government, as revealed in that budget, to help the area that I, and other Members in this Assembly, represent, so that we can have an economic future in this city?

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Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I take it that the question relates to Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, in all the government's involvement, and even with decentralization, certainly with Yellowknife, it continues to grow. I do not think that there has been any decline. We heard, just the other day, about the lay-off of Nerco staff, miners, and workers.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to suggest that, even though Yellowknife might have some foreboding feeling about being left out, or not being considered as a viable economy, that is not the case. Mr. Speaker, Yellowknife will continue to be a central area, which will benefit, much like Edmonton, in terms of forming other avenues to northern parts of the country.

As we develop any kind of economic approach in other parts of the Northwest Territories, it seems that there is always something left and some role for Yellowknife, in whatever happens, particularly in the western part of the Northwest Territories. Certainly, what I would see is that, with the continuing exploration of mining, that Yellowknife will play a big role in the supply area, and a focal point in distribution.

We see, even with hydro development, a lot of the spin-off benefits will come to Yellowknife mainly because of the infrastructure that is here. In terms of any other kinds of development, it seems that Yellowknife has a role to play, and does get spin-offs as a support community to other communities in the western part of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Recognizing the fact that the economy of this community, originally was based upon a non-renewable resource that would eventually disappear, and in light of the fact that much of the development that has taken place over the last 25 years has been as a result of the growth of government. I would like to ask the Minister, in view of the fact that we know that this kind of economy will eventually decline at some point in the future, what is there specifically in this budget, in that economic development budget, that recognizes that this is a capital city, which is of paramount importance for the economy of the whole of the Northwest Territories?

What, specifically in this budget, has this government done to ensure the economic well-being of this community?

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Supplementary To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1297

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I guess that question can be answered so many different ways. In terms of government, specifically, whether anyone is planning it or not, even though there are decentralization and some work-force adjustments, because of the population and the forced growth, there are 80 new positions that have been developed in Yellowknife, in education and different places, because of the general formulas that we have.

In terms of specific areas, I think that when we go to the Business Incentive Policy, many of the companies in Yellowknife have their headquarters here. So, even though there are other companies in the Northwest Territories, the companies that exist in Yellowknife automatically benefit from the Business Incentive Policy, because it happens that the major focus of their home operating base is in Yellowknife.

In terms of transportation routing into other areas, Yellowknife continues to thrive, because everything passes through Yellowknife. If we do something for Inuvik, Yellowknife generally benefits from it. There has been no direction to change the course of where medical patients from the Kitikmeot go, so the increased benefits, better facilities, comes to Yellowknife, and as a result, there has been the Kitikmeot Boarding Home, in which people come here, they enjoy the city, and take advantage of the business development.

Also, because of the Yellowknife hospital, another facility was developed for the Dene people to come here, which in turn, Yellowknife benefits from the fact that it is a focal point. So, I think that no matter what we do, being a capital city, and one of the communities with most of the population, and most of the enhanced facilities, I do not believe that anything that is done outside Yellowknife, Yellowknife does not benefit in some way or another.

There are some economic proposals that are coming forward. I cannot be specific like Mr. Pollard could be to you, but I think there are some domestic type things that are being planned, and people are taking part.

I know that, as well, the aboriginal women's group has joined together with Robinson's Trucking to put up a type of motor hotel in Yellowknife next to the airport. I cannot exactly tell you point by point, but there are activities here that other people, and aboriginal groups, have established themselves, out of Yellowknife.

So, I believe that whether specifically, or indirectly, Yellowknife tends to benefits on all counts. Thank you.

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Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

I will just follow up then. My final supplementary, Mr. Speaker, on one issue raised by the Minister.

Since we do have a Business Incentive Policy, I know in contracting local communities which have local businesses, they are allowed a 15 percent kind of discount, if you like, or reduction, and if it is a local group they have an extra five percent.

Will the Government Leader assure me that policy of this government will apply for those companies that apply on contracts in Yellowknife, that they will also get that five percent extra, since they would be local companies that would be bidding on government contracts, because that is the government policy. Will she assure me that will continue to happen, in the future, for Yellowknife companies.

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Supplementary To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I think that the word was assure, you know, and I think that I can say that what exists today, I can assure that there is no plans to change the policy to reap benefits, or giving benefits to Yellowknife contractors. The Minister responsible would like to add on to my comments. Thank you.

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Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to assure the Member that the spirit and intent of the Business Incentive Policy will be implemented, and the spirit and intent of the policy is to equalize things. To give northerners 15 percent so that they are equal in bidding against their southern counterparts, and the five percent local preference is to equalize for local communities, when it is implemented.

For example, there is a portion of the policy that says it has to follow the spirit and intent of the policy, that is to create jobs for northerners, and to equalize it. So, in some cases the five percent local preference is waved in order to follow the spirit and intent of the policy, and in those cases, for example, a bridge contract where the contract may be $1 million, and six or seven hundred thousand dollars of that contract, is steel that is manufactured in Edmonton, that portion will not get the five percent, for the simple reason all bidders have to bring it out of the same area. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Question O915-12(2): Economic Plan For Yellowknife

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, Mr. Pudlat .

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Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of the Housing Corporation in regards to the H.A.P. Housing Program.

It is very appealing for people, especially when there is a shortage of public housing. I seem to notice now, or be more aware, that the people who get H.A.P. housing, it is not because they make errors in the building, but sometimes they are short of lumber.

Around 1980, I know that they were applying for H.A.P. housing, and if they were short of materials, then they were able to get more. Now adays, even when they are short of materials, even if they ask, it seems to be getting harder to obtain the material that they are short of, because they can only own it after five years of living in it.

I know it is not just with the housing authority, or the recipients. I wonder if this has been dealt with, if they can provide more material if there is a shortage. Thank you.

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Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the H.A.P. clients receive their material package, they have a materials list that accompanies the package, and they are supposed to check off the list all the materials they have. If there is any shortage they are supposed to report it to the Housing Corporation and the Housing Corporation will ensure that shortage of material is given to them. Thank you.

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Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, supplementary Mr. Pudlat .

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Supplementary To Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A lot of times, when they start building, they do not open all the material right away. They seem to be treated differently now. I wonder if he can find out about to this?

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Supplementary To Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be happy to look into any specific matter the Member has, maybe later on today when we have a meeting, he can advise me of specifics, and I will take care of it. Thank you.

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Question O916-12(2): Shortage Of Supplies For H.a.p. Owners

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, Mr. Koe .

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Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1298

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources regarding the use of humane traps, or quick kill traps.

In his statement today, or response to a question, the Minister stated that there will be a delay in the exchange of traps, but I have got a concern that it is becoming costly for trappers to participate in the exchange program, and I know it is going to be law that they do. In a lot of cases, new traps are not readily available, and they are especially not readily available in the size that they need for the different animals that they trap.

My question to the Minister is, can the Minister assure trappers that there are going to be enough traps of the sizes that are adequate for their needs?

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Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this point, I cannot assure the Member that there will be enough traps available. For that reason, the manufacturers are manufacturing as fast as they can. We were able to get, so far, 300,000 traps for our trappers. I think, for a short period of time, there could very well be a shortage of traps. I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, we are able to get 30,000 quick kill traps for our trappers. Mr. Speaker, there could very well be a shortage of traps for a short period of time, until the manufacturers are able to produce enough traps for our trappers. We will try to make sure that there are enough traps, but that depends on the manufacturers. Thank you.

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Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Fred Koe

Inuvik

I guess it just expounds on the problem that we are trying to introduce new laws and new legislation, and we do not have all the resources available for the trappers. One of the complaints that I have received from trappers, is that it has costing them money. They do not have enough traps and they are obliged to trade in their existing traps. The new traps are not available, or if they are, they are too heavy, too bulky, as was mentioned by Mr. Gargan the other day.

What financial assistance is available to trappers to compensate them for loss of trapping if they do not have the proper traps available, the new traps?

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Supplementary To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is a trapper exchange program that the department runs. The trapper will give the old leg hold traps to our Renewable Resources, or in some cases to the Hunters and Trappers Association. The trapper is then given the new traps, the quick kill traps. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Fred Koe

Inuvik

It seems to me then, that this is an opportunity for entrepreneurs in the north. When I was in the business of trying to promote economic development, there were some investigations on manufactured traps in the north. Has there been any further work done in this regard, to look at the possibilities, or feasibilities of manufacturing traps in the Northwest Territories?

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Supplementary To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Yes, I believe there was a study done to see if the traps could be manufactured in the Northwest Territories. I will work with the Economic Development Minister to see how far that study has gone and how viable it is to produce traps in the Northwest Territories. I am sure it could be a boost to our economy. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

This is your last supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Will the Minister please provide Members with the research and information that is available, and what he finds in this regard?

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Supplementary To Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O917-12(2): Use Of Humane Traps

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Pudluk .

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Question O918-12(2): Planning Strategy For Regional Councils

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask Madam Premier this question. In regard to the regional councils, I know there was legislation established in September 1983, and also the established their policy for funding in July 1984. Today, looking at the operating and maintenance budget, there will be a cut of $128,000. What is the government's planning strategy in the future on the regional councils?

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Question O918-12(2): Planning Strategy For Regional Councils

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Question O918-12(2): Planning Strategy For Regional Councils

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, like every other part of the government, we looked at the areas where there could be some basic cuts without harming the operation of various boards and agencies.

On the regional councils, there was a 10 percent cut, except for Baffin, who received a higher decrease. What we made sure of, was that each regional organization could operate, could have the meetings they require, and some support. There is no plan to take away how they operate and under what mandate they operate. All the cuts were done, basically, for fiscal restraint and each region was given enough money to have the same number of meetings and support staff to keep them going. Thank you.

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Question O918-12(2): Planning Strategy For Regional Councils

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question O919-12(2): Travel By Court Circuit

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1299

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

(Translation) Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Justice . In the smaller communities, if there are people who have to go to court, the court circuit usually comes to the community, and it takes them a long time. Once they get into the community, a lot of times they are there for only half a day. Even if there are a lot of

people that have to be dealt with, a lot of the times, they do not complete the community.

Can this, in the future, be given consideration, that once the courts go into the communities, at least, if they could stay overnight, then they would be more appreciated from my constituents. Thank you.

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Question O919-12(2): Travel By Court Circuit

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O919-12(2): Travel By Court Circuit

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will take the Member's concern and pass it on to the appropriate people within the justice system. Mahsi.

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Question O919-12(2): Travel By Court Circuit

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. A question to the Minister of Housing . Can the Minister advise this House as to what active strategy he is taking to lobby the federal government, with regard to the social housing dilemma. When the issue was raised, a motion was passed, many of the native organizations expressed their support. I am just wondering what action has the Minister taken to incorporate all the advice and assistance that he was offered?

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Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since we had that debate in the Assembly, I have written to the Minister responsible, the honourable Elmer MacKay. The Premier has also written to the Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney. I have also put together information packages for all the major national aboriginal organizations, and presented that to them while they are here in the House.

I am also putting together the packages for all of the ordinary Members, and all of the other native organizations in the Northwest Territories, so that we can all be attacking from the same front. I will keep the Members informed as we move along. Thank you.

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Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Fred Koe

Inuvik

That is all well and nice, I guess, to provide everybody with information, but a lot of us are aware of the issue and the concerns. I guess I am looking for action and whether or not the Minister has called the Prime Minister, or the federal Minister of Housing , or have any people gone down to lobby them directly, in this regard.

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Supplementary To Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been in contact with the Minister responsible for the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the honourable Elmer MacKay. I have talked to him on the phone. Our officials have gone to Winnipeg, I believe they are there now, or they did go last week, to meet with other jurisdictions, to see if we can come to any understanding of where we would go from here.

As the Member is aware, all the provincial jurisdictions did support us, and I have also written to the honourable Elmer MacKay to ask him if there was any surplus of funding with the C.M.H.C. programs. Around this time of year, it so happens that some provincial jurisdictions do not spend all of their C.M.H.C. funding, so if there is any surplus, he would look at reallocating that surplus to the territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Question O920-12(2): Strategy For Social Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. New question, Mr. Koe .

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Question O921-12(2): Department Of Education Human Resource Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Education . Since he is not here, I will direct it to the Government Leader . The other day in this House, I raised some questions about hiring practices in the Department of Education. The Minister, in one of his responses, said that these arrangements were part of the department's human resource plan.

My question, I guess, is whether, or not, this House can have a copy of the Department of Education's human resource plan.

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Question O921-12(2): Department Of Education Human Resource Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Question O921-12(2): Department Of Education Human Resource Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I think over the last while we have made sure that as much as possible to the Members, I do not see any reason why you cannot, and I will make sure that the honourable Member receives a copy of the human resource plan.

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Question O921-12(2): Department Of Education Human Resource Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question O922-12(2): Cost For Travel To Appear In Court

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a question to the Minister of Justice . It is in regards to whether the legislation is the way it is about people that have to go to court in a different community. The individual that has to go to court has to go to the community he is asked to come to, and it is very hard, financially, for individuals to go to court in another community.

The majority of the time, depending on the airline route, they are usually late for their court date. Sometimes, if it is a young person, the parents have to pay. Is that following the legislation, that the individual has to pay for their own way to go to court? Thank you.

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Question O922-12(2): Cost For Travel To Appear In Court

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O922-12(2): Cost For Travel To Appear In Court

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have to take the question as notice. Thank you.

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Question O922-12(2): Cost For Travel To Appear In Court

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1300

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Mr. Gargan .

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Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Page 1300

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had to think long and hard about whether to give my reply to the opening address today. I realize that it has been a very busy and, at times, emotionally draining session, however, there are some

things that I need to say, and I can only develop those thoughts within the free context of this item on the order paper.

I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that I am aware that the House has its sights on completing its business, so that honourable Members can return to their home communities, and I do not wish to prolong this. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I believe that a good reply is like a ladies' evening gown. It should be long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting.

Seriously, Mr. Speaker, I will not object to people looking at their watches while I am speaking today, but I strongly object if they start shaking them to see if they are working. I hope the Premier heard that, Mr. Speaker.

Over the past nine years that I have been privileged to serve as a Member of this House, I have tended to give replies in which I have attempted to comment on a wide range of issues. This one will be different, Mr. Speaker. Today I want to talk about education.

Mr. Speaker, honourable Members will be aware that over the past few weeks, I have made a number of comments on this subject. Those honourable Members who read the Yellowknifer newspaper, and listen to C.B.C., may have heard some negative reaction to these comments. It is always discouraging when people misunderstand you when you are trying to say something important.

It is even more discouraging, I think, when that misunderstanding arises as a result of out of context reporting, and local politics. To me, it is an important issue, maybe one of the most important issues I have tried to raise during all my years as a politician. I believe that it is important to try one more time, or a hundred more times, if I have to, to get this message across.

Since I was in my teens, I have enjoyed reading the works of Mark Twain. One of his best sayings was, "Get your facts first, then, you can distort them as much as you please."

Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, I feel that some of the individuals who have commented on my position have not bothered to look into the facts. Here are some facts:

1. First, I have never argued for an immediate cancellation of the cultural education programs without our public school system. I have a different vision about how our aboriginal youngsters should learn about their traditions and their Dene, Inuit, or Metis lifestyles;

I hope that, over time, we will see some changes in the prevailing model, and I say that, because I believe in some ways the prevailing model is wrong;

I would not like to see my comments interpreted as suggesting that we should immediately slash funding for our existing programs;

If changes occur, they should take place gradually, and with the consent of the communities;

2. Here is the second fact. I believe in the importance of mainstream education. Self- government, economic development, political evolution, those words will hold no promise at all, unless aboriginal people are prepared to do business with the rest of the contemporary world;

Look at my voting record in this House, Mr. Speaker. I have never failed to support any reasonable appropriations of educational programming, including the existing cultural inclusion programs in our schools.

3. Here is the third fact. I have been a strong supporter of the Report of the Traditional Knowledge Working Group, which advocates using elders to enhance existing cultural education programs in schools, and including "traditional knowledge" within the school curriculum.

4. Here is the final fact. I am proud of the record that Elizabeth Ward School, and our Community Education Council have developed in terms of preparing our young Dene to move on to secondary education.

I have noticed the hard work that has been done by Margaret Thom, and Margaret Van Dell, in developing language and cultural education programs for our school. I want to be clear about this, Mr. Speaker. Whenever I have commented about looking for a different way of educating our Dene youth in Fort Providence, I have never meant to sound critical of the contribution that these talented, and hard working, teachers have made.

---Applause

When I hear of the way professionals like Margaret Thom and Margaret Van Dell have been acknowledged nationally, it makes me feel good about what they are doing. At the same time, I have a different vision of philosophy of the model, on which our education system is based.

I guess it is based on the belief that the Northwest Territories is a place where different cultures come together and co-exist, but where one culture does not swallow up the other. I believe that the Northwest Territories has never been, and should never become, "a melting pot."

I do not think that the ways we Dene, Inuit and Metis have lived for thousands of years, and especially, the way we have raised our children, should be considered second rate when compared to non-native education systems which white people have brought into the north.

Mr. Speaker, the two

part challenge facing young people in small northern communities today is to learn how to succeed as a traditional aboriginal person, and how to succeed within the modern ways economy and environment.

Our youth are having to learn how to think and feel like grandparents did. They must also be able to think and feel like the accountant, the lawyer, the social worker, or the electrician they are going to become.

Some people have suggested that the school system is not working well enough to prepare our young people for these wage economy challenges:

1. My honourable colleagues from Keewatin Central and North Slave have questioned whether we are graduating competent students;

2. The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions found some areas where apprenticeship training and pre-vocational requirements ought to be improved; and

3. An

article I tabled yesterday written by Jim Shirley of Nunatsiaq News suggests that there is a need for better training in communication skills and commerce skills within our schools.

Those are some changes that have been suggested in the ways we prepare our young aboriginal people to "think like Canadians." What I am saying is that now is the time to examine the way we are preparing our young aboriginal people to think like Dene, or like Inuit or like Metis. We should be returning to the teaching system which has worked for our children for thousands of years.

Throughout history, it has been the responsibility of the elders, the uncles, the aunties, the community as a whole, to show our children their aboriginal ways of life.

I believe that if we plan now, we can eventually build an education system, not a school system which returns responsibility for socialization, and learning to the communities, and to those traditional ways.

Mr. Speaker, when I grew up, I grew up in a tent. I was born in a tent in the Red Knife area. We never had any doctors, and it was one of those trips where my mom and dad had to go into Fort Providence to pick up supplies, and somewhere along the way, I was born. I was the second born. My sister was first, and I was born about fifteen minutes later.

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Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Page 1302

An Hon. Member

Late again, eh?

---Laughter

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Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Item 8: Replies To Opening Address

Page 1302

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

My parents taught me a lot while I was out on the land, and one of the things they taught me was if you are going to do something, do it now, and mom did it, when she was ready to do it.

When times were hard, my dad used to go down to the barrenland, and my dad is not a very big person. He is less than five feet tall. He used to go down from Red Knife, and up the Horn Mountains, down the other side, and he used to go down to the barren lands to harvest caribou when you could not find moose in our area. A lot of times, even when I grew up, I used to have to carry rifles and bags for my dad, I was quite small and I used to mumble, and complain a lot about the heavy loads.

Even when we used to go visiting rabbit snares, my dad does not think like a white man, so if he caught a rabbit, he would pick it up, and dump it into my bag. So, by the time we got to the other end, the bag that I was carrying was loaded up, and I would have to carry it all the way back, instead of him going right to the end, and working our way back.

So, those are some of the things that I went through. My dad, I owe him my life. All the values, and the compassion that I have within me, comes from this man. Also, I know that a lot of Members here in this House have grown up in that same kind of environment. I do recall seeing Nellie on T.V. fishing on the ice. I have also seen her in McLean's Magazine driving a boat. A lot of the things I have learned through my people, Mr. Speaker.

My dad used to own a kicker. A five and a half horse kicker and a boat, and at that time my dad was one of the first persons who owned a kicker. Not too many people in Providence had kickers in those days, and they used to rely on borrowing my dad's boat, and kicker, to go hunting, but my dad would never let it go unless, I was driving the boat. So, that was the way I learned a lot, too.

We used to go out and drop people off in different creeks and that, and would work our way back, but we always would get a moose or some other animals.

Mr. Speaker, the philosophies that underlie learning to the Dene are different from those involved with learning to be a Canadian. There is no way around it. That is a fact. Throughout history, Euro-Canadian culture has stressed individual success, aboriginal culture has stressed collective survival.

Euro-Canadian culture has viewed child development as a series of stages in which one has to struggle to accomplish certain goals. Aboriginal culture has viewed it as a continuous process of moving closer to a sense of harmony with self, others and the natural world. Euro-Canadian cultures has developed a system which emphasized learning through instructional technologies and teaching methods. Aboriginal culture imparts knowledge through holistic experience.

Euro-Canadian education is based on the most part on learning to succeed by manipulating thoughts and objects. Aboriginal people learned to become part of the environment.

Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to experience both kinds of learning. So have many of the northern aboriginal people in my generation. Interestingly enough many of the non native educators, and experts, who have criticized my views, have not experienced them. I know that the two educational frameworks are different, they feel different. Each has evolved from a different purpose.

The contemporary education system can expose students to curricula that informs them about what it is like to be Dene or Inuit. Make no mistake about it, our Department of Education and the divisional boards have make incredible progress in terms of developing absolutely beautiful books and teaching methods which they do. People like Fibbie Tatti, Margaret Thom, Judy Tutcho, Chuck