Debates of Oct. 17th, 2008

This is page numbers 1733 to 1766 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was highway .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Speaker’s Ruling

Minister’s Statement 109-16(2) Teacher Education And Aboriginal Language And Culture

Housing Shortage In Nunakput

Alternative Revenue Options

Dental Surgery At Stanton Hospital

Congratulations To Newborn And Newlywed Nahendeh Residents

Lack Of Public Washrooms In Downtown Yellowknife

Elder Facility In Fort Resolution

Premier’s First Year Performance Grade

Elders On The Land Healing Programs

GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Gwich’in Contract Negotiation Memorandum Of Understanding

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Question 497-16(2) Negotiated Contract For School Construction In Inuvik

Question 498-16(2) Food Services At Territorial Dementia Centre

Question 499-16(2) Highway No. 1 Rest Stops

Question 39-16(2) Cost Of Child And Family Services In Mackenzie Delta Communities

Bill 19 Donation Of Food Act

Tabling of Documents

Motion 24-16(2) Tiered Vehicle Registration System

Motion 25-16(2) Food Mail Program Audit

Motion 26-16(2) NWT Milk Subsidy Program

Bill 21 Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures) 2009–2010

Appointments To The Board Of Management (Motion Carried)

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tabled Document 93-16(2): NWT Capital Estimates 2009–2010

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters (Continued)

NWT Capital Eestimates 2009–2010 (Continued)

Committee Motion 80-16(2) Deferral Of Consideration Of Education And Culture Activity In Education, Culture And Employment Capital Estimates (Td 93-16(2)) (Committee Motion Carried)

Committee Motion 81-16(2) Deletion Of $1.4 Million From Highways Activity For Highway No.5 Km 0–266, Chipseal Project Under The Department Of Transportation (Committee Motion Carried)

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 10:02 a.m.

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Prayer.

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Members, before we begin today, I would like to provide a ruling on the point of order raised by Premier Roland on Thursday, October 9, 2008.

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Speaker’s Ruling

Speaker’s Ruling

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Roland rose on a point of order with regard to proceedings in Committee of the Whole on Wednesday, October 8, 2008, and cited Rule 23(

i) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly. This rule states that a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member imputes false or hidden motives to another Member. A point of order must be raised at the earliest opportunity. Mr.

Roland rose after reviewing the unedited

Hansard for October 8, 2008. I find that he raised the point of order at the earliest opportunity.

Mr. Roland felt that Mrs. Groenewegen , by questioning the process of negotiated contracts and by referencing himself as a Member for Inuvik who supported the project and also as the Premier and the Chair of the Financial Management Board for the first eight months of the 16th Assembly, was

directly questioning his motives with regard to the capital project under discussion in Committee of the Whole. I will quote Mr. Roland in stating his point of order, found on page 3 of the unedited Hansard for Thursday, October 9, 2008:

“ Mrs. Groenewegen …in questioning the Finance Minister , asked this question: ‘…was the MLA who approved the negotiated contract the MLA for Inuvik, the Premier and the Chair of the Financial Management Board ?’…by putting that line of questioning out there, she has tried to, in fact…. I would feel that this is written now forever in the record books: [she states] imputing a motive on my behalf that I had a position to make something happen.”

After the point of order I did allow for debate and heard from both Mr.

Roland and Mrs.

Groenewegen.

When speaking to the point of order, Mr. Roland stated: “In fact, by her line of questioning she was indeed imputing a false motive to the process and my role as the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , thereby putting into question my role as Premier and Finance Minister of the day.”

Mrs. Groenewegen , rising to speak to the point of order, offered the following rationale for her line of questioning in Committee of the Whole:

“I’m not a Cabinet Minister, so I’m not privy to the processes that would actually take place behind closed doors in the confidentiality of the Cabinet Room with respect to a Member declaring a conflict or how they’d be involved. I listened to the deputy minister outline the negotiated contract policy, and he said that would necessarily include a letter of support from community leaders, including MLAs. I then wanted to understand that process better. I did not intend to impute any motive. I still want to clearly understand how this project came about.”

Members may recall that in prior rulings I have been unable to find a definite authority to assist me in providing rulings of this nature. Previous rulings, both my own and those of previous Speakers, have relied on a careful review of the transcripts of the proceedings in question and the comments offered by Members when providing the opportunity for debate.

The comments that led to the point of order took place on the floor of the Chamber during Committee of the Whole. I relied on the unedited Hansard for October 8, 2008, to review the questions raised by Mrs. Groenewegen during the committee consideration of Tabled Document 93-16(2). I do find the following comments by Mrs. Groenewegen , found at page 62, to be helpful in providing context for her question:

“To my knowledge, this is the largest capital project ever built. Could we get some

rationalization for why it was a negotiated contract as opposed to a competitive process? Were other means of procuring this project considered, like breaking it up into smaller pieces? On a negotiated contract, when the process has been described previously as having to meet with the agreement of the MLA, the mayor and the Cabinet, was the MLA who approved the negotiated contract the MLA for Inuvik, the Premier and the Chair of the Financial Management Board ?”

I also found Mrs. Groenewegen ’s explanation, at page 4, unedited Hansard, from Thursday, October 9, 2008, to be of assistance. She stated: “That’s not something I knew. So I was asking questions. I was not trying to answer them or impute any motive.”

In making my ruling, I am guided by citation 494 in Beauchesne’s Parliamentary Rules and Forms , 6th edition. I quote, “…it has been normally ruled by Speakers that statements by Members respecting themselves and particularly within their own knowledge must be accepted.” I do accept Mrs. Groenewegen ’s comments at face value, and therefore, colleagues, I do not find that Mr. Roland has a point of order in this instance.

Before we resume Orders of the Day, colleagues, I leave you Members with the following words from Marleau and Montpetit’s House of Commons Procedure and Practice ,

at page 504:

“Nevertheless, while it is the Speaker who is charged with maintaining the dignity and decorum of the House, Members themselves must take responsibility for their behaviour and conduct their business in an appropriate fashion.”

Thank you, colleagues. Orders of the Day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister’s Statement 109-16(2) Teacher Education And Aboriginal Language And Culture

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that the Strategy for Teacher Education in the Northwest Territories: 2007–2015 Action Plan has been approved and that priorities have been set for the upcoming year.

The two primary goals of the strategy are to increase the number of aboriginal teachers and to increase the numbers of aboriginal language teachers throughout the Northwest Territories. We currently have 109 aboriginal teachers and 30 aboriginal language teachers across the Northwest Territories.

Other goals include preparing education assistants, aboriginal secondary teachers and program support teachers for NWT schools and increasing the number of aboriginal school administrators, college faculty and administration, Education, Culture and Employment consultants and management.

The action plan includes actions such as employing elders in residence to support students, increasing funding by $300,000 to develop an online library database to support community based programs and implementing a student recruitment program throughout the territory.

Last April marked the first year for graduates from the Bachelor of Education degree program at Thebacha Campus through a partnership with the University of Saskatchewan. This is a strong partnership that will continue to strengthen and evolve to meet the needs of the students and future teachers of the Northwest Territories.

This fall committees will be reviewing proposals for community based teacher education programs and aboriginal language and cultural instructor programs.

The goal is for each region to deliver community based programs, as is currently happening in Behchoko, on a rotation to ensure the goal of a representative workforce is accomplished sooner. The Behchoko model will be used to inform future community based programs. Behchoko has included a unique healing and wellness component that may be of interest to other regions.

We anticipate nine students will graduate from the two year Aboriginal Language and Cultural Instructor Program in June 2009 and five students to graduate from the three year Teacher Education Program in June of 2010.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate our graduates and all those who have worked and are working to make the Teacher Education and Aboriginal Language and Culture Instructor programs a success.

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Minister’s Statement 109-16(2) Teacher Education And Aboriginal Language And Culture

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Jacobson .

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Housing Shortage In Nunakput

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the years, through my leadership positions in Nunakput, there has been a deficiency, an inequality and a crisis far beyond most community based concerns. This is a housing situation.

Although I recognize I may sound like a broken record, I cannot emphasize enough that whatever housing concerns are experienced in other parts of our great territory, they are compounded manyfold in the Nunakput region. There are houses all over Nunakput communities that are unfit to live in, places such as Yellowknife or Inuvik. Former leadership in Paulatuk has frequently told me that operating and maintaining certain decrepit homes is merely throwing good money after bad.

In addition to the decrepit conditions of the units, communities have the enormous problem of overcrowding. Overcrowding in housing units is a symptom of a much larger systemic problem and has caused many community problems. Too many times I see ten to 12 people staying in a small unit. As I visit these units, I grow increasingly frustrated and concerned. I wonder when the government will commit seriously to adjusting these deficiencies. There are many families in Nunakput who have doubled up and even tripled up because of simply having no place to live. That’s a shame of this government.

Recently Ulukhaktok was recognized for developing and providing housing for the teachers in northern community based solutions, but these community governments are tight on cash and shouldn’t have to be carrying the weight alone. This is a Housing and Education territorial responsibility.

Don’t get me wrong. We see all the units being built all over this territory, and they’re welcome, but they are barely making a small dent. Making matters even worse, some units are being decommissioned as other units are being built. In other words, we are only breaking even.

Mr. Speaker, this problem has been going on far too long. The buck stops in this House. The government has to make changes.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Housing Shortage In Nunakput

Members’ Statements

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

This has to be the government to make the changes desperately needed in the communities’ housing conditions.

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Housing Shortage In Nunakput

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Alternative Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In its recent insightful submission on revenue options to the government, the non-government organization Alternatives North notes that the revenue options discussion paper does not mention the role that

services and programs can play in attracting and holding people in our communities.

Coincidentally, this agrees strongly with the tone of the message I received at my Weledeh constituency meeting last week. This message was that while many people are noticing the rising cost of living, they also are still appreciating the incredible characteristics of our jurisdiction that make this a great place to live and raise our families.

In a nutshell, Mr. Speaker, people raved about the close community they enjoy; about the extremely high standard of education and educational opportunities they have; about the national-level standard of sports training, competition and accolades our youth and athletes enjoy; about the incredible regional, national and international travel opportunities our people experience, and I could go on.

We need to raise the profile on these perspectives and learn from the lessons they reflect. Quality of life is as important, perhaps even more important, than quantity. This does not deny the need to raise revenue, however. Many communities in the NWT do not enjoy the same quality of living as we do here in Yellowknife, and closing that gap is an area this government needs to focus on.

Better and increased programs and services should be a goal that goes hand in hand with reducing the cost of living for Northerners. But to achieve these roles we cannot place the fiscal burden of those programs and services directly on the backs of our citizens. Many people cannot afford increased taxes, and nobody wants to see a sales tax. Taxes such as these place a burden on peoples’ incomes, which are stretched thin enough as it is.

Some potentially fruitful options we should pursue are focused mechanisms to tax migrant workers or companies who hire them and those with very high incomes and resource taxes on non-renewable resource development and industries.

Finally, we need to provide the long term security and foresight that instills in our residents confidence for the long term by instituting a heritage fund and a taxation and royalty regime that ensures we gain fair and full benefits from our non-renewable resource development.

Let’s listen to our people, embed our decisions within the full context of today’s challenges and move progressively in ways that diversify our economy and ensure a good quality of life and secure future for everyone.

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Alternative Revenue Options

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Dental Surgery At Stanton Hospital

Members’ Statements

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier this week I was asked by a Member of Cabinet why I’m pushing so hard to have Stanton open its operating room for local dentists so that they can perform dental surgeries on young children who require major dental work, work that cannot be performed safely in local dentists’ offices. Why am I pushing so hard, considering that the department has already addressed the financial issues and has opened up time in both Inuvik and Hay River? The reason: because it’s the right thing to do.

I’ve seen disks of photographs compiled by Lesli Fisher in Hay River that show a large number of very young children who require significant dental surgery. Quite frankly, the photos are disgusting. Due to the delays in providing services, the teeth and oral health of these children have become so bad that you can actually see pus oozing out of the sores in the mouths of these very young children. If you see these photos, you’ll want the same thing I want.

What I want is to get rid of the backlog of children as quickly as possible and stop future suffering of the children in need. I encourage each of the Ministers and the Premier to view these photos. Once you see them, I expect that you’ll want the same thing I want.

I would like to acknowledge and applaud the Department of Health and Social Services for the work they’ve already done on this file. Unfortunately, I feel they have stopped short. I recently talked to an individual intimately involved in the dental surgery program in Hay River. She is extremely pleased they have reached the point where surgeries are being performed in Hay River and Inuvik. However, she has indicated that the sheer quantity of children who require the service is a bit on the overwhelming side.

It would be a benefit to all children, as well as to dental clinics in both Hay River and Inuvik, if the workload could be shared and more time could be available, specifically more time in Yellowknife. Actually, any time in Yellowknife would be a good start.

So once again I ask: why is the Minister of Health and Social Services resistant to opening up more time in Yellowknife to get Yellowknife dentists so that they can contribute to the solution? Money isn’t the issue. The cost of the GNWT allowing the services to be provided in Hay River and Inuvik is the same as providing them in Stanton. The original budgetary concerns have been addressed.

By not allowing these services in Yellowknife, the department is telling the residents of Yellowknife that they have to pay more out of their own pockets

for things like travel and accommodation. Why? This makes no sense.

The solution is easy. Make time available. The Minister has already indicated that they have only one day out of every eight weeks available to Stanton. That’s a starting point. Make that, as well as any dropped time, available in Yellowknife, and we’ve gone a short distance towards fixing the problem.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I’ll be asking the Minister of Health and Social Services some questions on this issue.

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Dental Surgery At Stanton Hospital

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Congratulations To Newborn And Newlywed Nahendeh Residents

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to recognize some births and marriages in the Nahendeh riding.

I’d like to congratulate the following couples, ladies and gentlemen all, for taking the big step and the commitment of marriage. The couples are

Jonathan

and Dahti Scott of Fort Simpson, Jocelyn Kierstead and Kurt Tsetso, James Tsetso and Christine, Willy Michaud and Amy, Wesley Hardisty and Patricia, Cheryl Tanche and Nathan. And from Fort Liard, Virginia Bedine and Willy McLeod.

And let’s take a few moments for a few births in the community of Fort Simpson. To Trish Isaiah, Christine Wrigley, Andrea Grossetete and my niece, Tanya Hardisty. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

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Congratulations To Newborn And Newlywed Nahendeh Residents

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Lack Of Public Washrooms In Downtown Yellowknife

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Today I want to use my Member’s statement to encourage the Minister responsible for coordinating initiatives related to homelessness to support this very important initiative. I first raised the topic of public washrooms last week. Since then I’ve learned that I have support and recognition of this problem from many of my colleagues. I also have the support of many businesses that have spoken out on this issue, and certainly a number of residents who feel it is a serious issue that needs serious measures to deal with. So I recognize that, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly hope there will be a Minister who recognizes that too.

Yellowknife needs public toilets in our downtown. Nobody expects that this alone will completely

solve all our problems when it comes to urination, defecation in the downtown public areas. However, the installation of public toilets can be undertaken relatively quickly and certainly will achieve results. We need to link this to improvements to our housing, treatment for mental illness and addiction to drugs, and this would lead to all types of long erm solutions.

I’ve taken a quick look at what other cities across Canada have done. This is a standard challenge facing many urban communities in our country regarding the significant homeless population. Worth noting, Mr. Speaker, even in the city of Yellowknife, the library downtown has had to take steps because they can no longer offer their washrooms — it’s just public washrooms — because it’s caused significant problems, and they continue to lose their contractors because of it.

Often municipal governments are asked to take a partnership role but certainly not the lead role, because that belongs to the senior government — in this case our Health Minister , our Minister for the homeless, but certainly the territorial government. However, many Canadian cities have been able to access additional funding sources from that senior government and use partnerships through businesses and NGOs. Many municipalities have purchased special purpose self-contained cleaning units for public washrooms.

There are several kinds of standard units readily available out there, and they range, starting at approximately $50,000. Some communities are able to hose those lanes and doorsteps down all year long. But that certainly is not the case here in Yellowknife, and that’s why we need a self-contained unit, so people can go on the coldest days and use the washroom.

At this time may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

Unanimous consent granted.

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Lack Of Public Washrooms In Downtown Yellowknife

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, it is a significant issue, and many cities are working hard on this. I want to compliment cities like Winnipeg. It is a winter city, and they are trying to deal with this problem. I have even read that they have had architects come forward offering free service to design a public washroom to help deal with this problem.

Mr. Speaker, I’m going to close by stressing that access to public washrooms is also a health issue. If the Minister has never heard of infectious disease, then let me be the first to tell her about it. There are certainly her officials who can remind her about what problems this can lead to. This is very important to our community. It is very important to the growth of our community. It’s certainly important to the health of our community.

Later today I will be asking questions to the Minister responsible for the homeless, who hopefully will understand the significance of this file.

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Lack Of Public Washrooms In Downtown Yellowknife

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Elder Facility In Fort Resolution

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Today I would once again like to talk about the Great Elders Facility in Fort Resolution. I have raised this issue in the House more than once. I have asked questions about this facility, but with all my efforts it seems the community and the department are still not able to find a workable solution that satisfies both. This is an ideal facility that has potential to provide very valuable and much needed service to the community of elders.

Mr. Speaker, from reviewing the responses from the Minister to my questions asked previously in the House, from listening to concerns of the chief and council in Fort Resolution and from many conversations I’ve had with elders, I believe I may have an understanding of what seems to be the problem. It boils down to a difference of cultures. One culture is concerned with accountability and all that is associated with it. This culture allows itself and its actions to be governed by the ideals of accountability.

Included in this is a complex set of policies, legislation, liabilities, regulations and certification, with varying degrees of accountabilities and authorities. The other culture is concerned with caring and all that is associated with it. Included in this is the simple notion of somehow, some way, we’ll get it done. Elders care is one such example.

Unfortunately, the kind of elders care I am talking about is not recognized by the department. The care of community elders by grandchildren, family and friends does not fit into the regimented structure of the department. What has to happen is the department has to realize that the communities are the ones best suited to develop and deliver the service and programming for what is needed. The department needs to be flexible with its approaches, and the department needs to seriously re-evaluate the value it places on exploring community based solutions.

Mr. Speaker, I believe the department must exercise its creative side in this matter and not hold steadfast to regimented policies, legislation, regulations that may very....

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Elder Facility In Fort Resolution

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mr. Beaulieu , your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

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Elder Facility In Fort Resolution

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Elder Facility In Fort Resolution

Members’ Statements

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. I believe the department must exercise its creative side in this matter and not hold steadfast to regimented policies, legislation, regulations that may work very well elsewhere but not for a small community of 500 in Fort Resolution.

I may have questions for the Minister later on today.

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Elder Facility In Fort Resolution

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Member for Hay River South

Mrs.

Groenewegen.

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Premier’s First Year Performance Grade

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier this morning I had the opportunity to sit on a panel at CBC to consider the performance of our Premier for his first year in office. The short amount of time did not provide enough time to share all the thoughts I had on this matter.

Last night at the Aboriginal Sport Circle Gala former NHL coach and player Ted Nolan gave the keynote address. A theme he presented from his years of working on or with a team is that we have to learn to win with what we have.

We have a team here. We have chosen our captain, our linesmen, but we have to work with other players that the northern constituents chose to represent them. We have to trust the judgment of those we represent, that they chose us on the basis of our experience, skills and traits they saw and respected. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. We all have our supporters and detractors. But for better or worse, Mr. Speaker, this is the talent pool that we have to work with, right here in this room.

I personally have a philosophy of giving credit where credit is due and to use my voice in this role to try to capture the questions and sentiments of the people and the public. In my role as a Regular Member I look for the passion and strength of all Members so that we can be the best we can be. We all have a window of opportunity to effect positive change for the community’s region and the communities we represent.

Although I was only able to give the Premier a C grade for his first year in office, I know my assessment could be enhanced by leadership that respects the value and contribution of all Members, including mine. For my part, I will continue to ask questions, offer comment and opinion and, if accepted by the Premier , bring my input to bear for

the benefit of advancing our agenda and his agenda for Northerners.

There is room for improvement on all of our parts. Let’s, as Mr. Nolan said, learn to win with what we’ve got and respect all members of the team.

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Premier’s First Year Performance Grade

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Elders On The Land Healing Programs

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I travel to the communities in the Sahtu, the people talk about help they need at the community level with their families, especially with the elderly people. They talk about their hope that they have some support with wellness workers. They thought that when they had the Sahtu health board, they would get this kind of help. They thought that with the health board they would initiate on the land cultural programs. They thought that people in Colville Lake would get help, and they would have on the land programs for the people and the issues they had to deal with.

Mr. Speaker, in my region there’s been a lot of deaths. In my communities there’s been a lot of hurt. In my community of Tulita, over several months, I experienced a number of families’ deaths. We are expected to take three days off and then go back to work or tell our kids — or sometimes we don’t even tell our kids — what’s happening. We expect them to go back to school in typical fashion to learn while they wonder what is going on with them. How come no one is talking about their grandfather, their brother or uncle?

The people in the Sahtu want an on the land program. Our elders have been telling us: go on the land; it’s for a purpose. But somehow we fall into an attitude that we’ve got to have accreditation from a university. That has shut a lot of doors on my own people with expertise. That shuts them out of true healing.

I am going to ask the Minister if she would support a pilot project like Tl’oondih, Nats'ejée K'éh

or even

wellness centres. Have people on the land. Let our people do our work. We can heal ourselves. Let’s give the power back to our people.

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Elders On The Land Healing Programs

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I want to speak again today about diamonds and how it is that the Government of the Northwest Territories is currently sound asleep when it comes to diamond policy, strategy and vision.

It has been ten years of mining diamonds in the Northwest Territories, and we just have not been as successful as we should have been. I believe we still have tremendous opportunity through the review of the diamond policy, strategy and a firm commitment from this government that diamonds and the secondary industry here in the Northwest Territories are going to be fully supported.

Yesterday I spoke of the feasibility work being done on the development of a diamond bourse, or exchange. This work is being carried out by the Government of Ontario. I was very interested in hearing the Minister of ITI ’s response to my questions yesterday about the development of a diamond bourse. We as a government had officials at these meetings, but I am having a difficult time understanding exactly what we are doing there.

It is obvious to me that the Government of Ontario is interested in a diamond bourse located in either Toronto or Ottawa. How did we let Ontario get out in front of us on this? They have one mine, which recently opened. We have four operating mines and have been in the business for well over ten years.

Yesterday the Minister stated that they determined that we would get more value added by making sure that rough diamonds were made available for the secondary industry. This has happened, and we still do have a cut and polish industry here, but things could be much better. A diamond bourse would put Yellowknife squarely on the world stage as the diamond capital. My fear is that we are out there actively observing and helping another jurisdiction like Ontario scoop our own opportunity. The sad thing is we aren’t doing anything about it.

I would like to know when this government is going to wake up and realize the opportunities that exist with diamonds. In the absence of a resource revenue deal with Ottawa, it is incumbent upon us as legislators to ensure that we get all of the benefit we can from these mines before they are gone.

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GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay .

Before I go on to the next Member, I would like to draw Members’ attention to the visitor’s gallery, to a former MLA, former Cabinet Minister and former Premier ; Mr. Richard Nerysoo is in the House. Welcome.

Members’ statements, the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Gwich’in Contract Negotiation Memorandum Of Understanding

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Aboriginal organizations have invested a lot of time and a lot of money in regard to negotiating land claim agreements where they had to pay back to the

federal government in excess of almost $9 million in the case of the Gwich’in. Almost $75 million is outstanding on the Dene/Métis claim.

Those dollars were paid back for negotiation. People assume negotiations were paid by the federal government; they weren’t. Those land claim agreements were there to improve the quality of life for those aboriginal organizations, the people they represent. In the case of the Gwich’in, we have invested tens of millions of dollars into the Inuvik regional economy. They have invested millions of dollars in the infrastructure by accommodating the offices for government departments or band councils or development corporations for infrastructure trade jobs to ensure that we have an economic footing for the Gwich’in members in the Inuvik region.

Yet we are totally being pushed out of every opportunity that seems to be appearingin regard to this government’s memorandum of understanding that we negotiated in good faith. We have land claim agreements that were negotiated in good faith, where the Government of Northwest Territories was at that table. They signed off on these legal agreements, but today they continue to totally ignore the economic well-being of those organizations and the people they represent when it comes to things such as office space in the Inuvik region.

Mr. Speaker, there was an office built here in Yellowknife. There was total outcry about the private sector in regard to a federal building that was being constructed here in Yellowknife. They, the federal government, took the responsibility on and sought an independent review to look at the market disruption in Yellowknife in regard to the private sector and the amount of retail space and the effect that this facility was going to have in the long term on market disruption in Yellowknife. But in regard to office space in Inuvik it’s basically full speed ahead.

Never mind your tens of millions of dollars you invested buying up for the private sector in Inuvik to consider going into the retail business.

This government has an obligation — and not only an obligation but a fundamental right — to live up to the land claim agreements, the memorandum of understanding, and to ensure that there is an economic footing for the land claim organizations to move forward and improve the quality of life of their people.

With that, Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking questions of the Premier on this matter.

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Gwich’in Contract Negotiation Memorandum Of Understanding

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Gwich’in Contract Negotiation Memorandum Of Understanding

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Unanimous consent granted.

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Gwich’in Contract Negotiation Memorandum Of Understanding

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a great pleasure to recognize the president of my tribal council, Mr. Richard Nerysoo.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, thank you. During my Member’s statement today I talked about the concern from a public health point of view. I wanted to highlight the fact that public washrooms are needed because of health reasons and, most notably, infectious disease problems. Recently the City of Yellowknife received a briefing from a contractor through various sources. They talked about the need for public washrooms and the problems that are caused without them.

My questions will be directed to the Minister responsible for the homeless. Ironically, it’s the same Minister for Health and Social Services , so maybe she could blend her answers equally. My question for the Minister is: what is she doing in recognition of the homelessness problem in this city and trying to solve the problem of lack of public washrooms for that community that exists in the downtown of Yellowknife?

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister responsible for the homeless, Ms. Lee .

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister Responsible for the Homeless

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to say this must be a story of embarrassment of riches. I have to say that per square foot, or by any measure, this government — the Department of Health and Social Services, ECE, Housing, you name it — pours more money into downtown Yellowknife than anywhere else in the territory.

Mr. Speaker, we fund the Salvation Army. We poured millions of dollars into the Salvation Army, Bailey House, SideDoor youth centre, Centre for

Northern Families. We fund the Yellowknife Association for Community Living. We fund the YWCA. I say a large portion of our capital funding for health and social services is going downtown, building $15 million — that is $500,000 per bed…. We are building 28 units for the dementia centre, and we are building a primary care clinic. We have three clinics in Yellowknife that we’re combining. Surely, out of all that money the city and the organizations could figure out how to build a public bathroom to serve our people.

Mr. Speaker, if we are missing something.… In my last question, I said I will meet with the city and I will talk to the mayor. The Member knows that I asked this morning that this issue be put on the agenda.

So, Mr. Speaker, I don’t believe it is about money. It is about coordination. I have to say to the Member, he must have everything satisfied if he is spending time talking about GNWT funding a public bathroom in downtown Yellowknife, the richest in all our territory. Thank you.

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee .

Interjections.

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Order! Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, obviously the Minister had her coffee this morning.

You know, it’s kind of shocking to hear a Yellowknife MLA — the Minister, who happens also to be a Yellowknife MLA — complain about the investment in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Minister misunderstood the point. My riding actually doesn’t cover the Bailey House. And by the way, the Bailey House and the Salvation Army? That’s not in downtown Yellowknife.

The question really comes down to what leadership role is she suggesting? She keeps telling the city to do this. This is not a mandate of the city. I have spoken to the mayor, and he does not want to be downloaded this crappy issue. The question is: what is the Ministry and the Minister responsible for the homeless going to do about establishing a public washroom in the downtown?

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister Responsible for the Homeless

I have already indicated that this has got to be something that I have to resolve by working with the city council.

I just noticed that we are building a beautiful park in downtown Yellowknife, by the city. Surely, if we put our good minds together, eight councillors in the City of Yellowknife and Yellowknife MLAs…. We have regular meetings, Mr. Speaker; the Member knows that. We’re working on the agenda. I have asked to put this item on the agenda. Obviously, I’m missing something here, because we’re pouring

hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars into address homelessness issues and other social issues. I’m sure we could come to a resolution without public investment from the GNWT to build a public bathroom in downtown Yellowknife.

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

This is a significant social problem that the Minister keeps wanting to point at the city to solve. This is a shameless approach to pass it on. Would the Minister responsible for the homeless step up and say that she will work to establish a public washroom, without trying to download it to a municipality?

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister Responsible for the Homeless

Mr. Speaker, as I’ve already indicated, I could give him a table of all the dollars we spend for all of these facilities, which we are glad to do. I know that these organizations were saying that they could always use more money. Now, I state again that I’m willing to work with the NGOs and the city government to resolve this issue. I remain, unless I’m convinced otherwise, that this is a municipal issue. They have the capacity and wherewithal to address that.

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Final short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Quickly, the fact is that public health is run by the Department of Health, which is also led and supervised by the Minister of Health and Social Services . Is public health not an issue under her responsibility that also covers the area of infectious disease?

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister Responsible for the Homeless

Obviously, public health is an important issue. I remain convinced that with the resources we have in downtown Yellowknife as well as the capability of the leadership of the city, we could resolve this issue. This is totally resolvable, and we just need to put our heads together and sort this out. I just cannot believe that we provide funding and bed spaces and program money to all of this public infrastructure programming in downtown Yellowknife and they cannot provide a public bathroom facility for people in need. That’s a shame, and it’s a shame for all of us. The city has to take some leadership.

Interjection.

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Question 490-16(2) Public Washrooms For Yellowknife Homeless

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Order! Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement I talked about the Great Elders Facility and its use. I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services questions on this. Can the Minister advise what internal discussions she

has had with her department on the usage of the Great Elders Facility in Fort Resolution? Thank you.

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Member’s question, as well as commitment, on this issue. As I have indicated already, we have been able to provide additional programming at the Great Elders Facility in terms of facilitating seniors to use that facility more in day programs. I know that the Member and the community are looking for an opportunity for the seniors to be able to stay there and be taken care of.

I want to give the Member a commitment that I am interested in working with the Member on that and working on a wider proposal to go to the Standing Committee on Social Programs to see how we could use this Great Elders Facility better. Thank you.

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Can the Minister advise if the department can sit down with the community to hear their solutions and what they think of the usage of the Great Elders Facility and how it could be used as a residence for the elders of Fort Resolution?

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

When this facility was built back in ’96 by the Housing Corporation, there was no arrangement made for O&M for 24/7 care. The problem seems to be that we have to…. The solution to this issue is to come up with ways different than how the budgeting and programming is done with respect to a 24/7 intensive seniors’ centre, which we will not be able to do in Resolution.

I think there are other things we could consider. I have had meetings with the band leadership and the seniors’ community in Resolution. I think the department is very well aware of the commitment and interest on the part of the community to make this work. I’m willing to work with the Member to consider all options we have to make use of those four units at the Great Elder Facility, and I will be coming to the Member and the community with a proposal for further discussion.

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Minister, for the answer. Can the Minister commit to communicating soon with an updated status on what the department considers to be a good solution for residential use by the elders of the Great Elder Facility in as far as scheduling and planning and so on.?

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Yes, I’m willing to make a commitment to come up with a proposal. I have to work out the details with the department. I have not had a chance to do that. I will make the

commitment to come up with a proposal to discuss with the community to see how that facility can be used better.

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister also commit to keeping me abreast of all the plans for the use of the Great Elder Facility so that I, too, can communicate with community governments and elders of Fort Resolution in order that they begin to see some progress on the usage of this as a residential facility?

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Absolutely. I would need the partnership of the Member to work together as we move forward on the use of this facility.

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Question 491-16(2) Elders’ Facility In Fort Resolution

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the unedited Hansard of October 3 the Minister of Health and Social Services stated that “anywhere else in Canada, dental surgeries are provided by private clinics. There’s no reason why the private clinics in Yellowknife couldn’t look at opening that.” Not necessarily.

In the South the way it works is very few clinics actually have these specialty services. Most clinics are like the clinics in the Northwest Territories. There are indeed specialist clinics that do it, and I think it’s unreasonable to expect that the clinics in Yellowknife — as opposed to the clinics in Hay River and Inuvik, which are basically the same as the clinics in Yellowknife — can take on that capacity. I think our solution to ensuring that our children are getting the dental surgery they need is to open up time in Stanton.

To that end, I’d like the Minister to commit today to at least opening the one day every eight weeks that they have available as well as any scheduled drop time, when they shut down the wards for regular surgeries, and provide that time to the dentists in Yellowknife so that they can work with the dentists in Hay River and Inuvik to reduce this backlog of children who are suffering from oral problems and require dental surgery.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not able to commit to having this program be established at Stanton for the reasons that I’ve indicated earlier. It’s the Stanton authority that feels that given all the demands of the services that they

have to provide…. They have to provide insured services first; they have to be able to provide surgeries and other procedures that Stanton has to deliver that other hospitals in the Territories cannot. So that is their first priority.

But I am willing to make a commitment to the Member that I will revisit this issue, including the one day every eight weeks that Stanton has available and what other options there might be. I will give a commitment to the Member that I will look at all options again and get back to the Member as to what the situation is.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

That sounds like a definite maybe.

In moving forward, I’d like to encourage the Minister to actually contact the local dentists and work with the local dentists as well as the individuals that the department has worked with previously in Hay River to find a solution. I think it would be easy, at a minimum, to do the one day every eight weeks as well as any drop time. Will the Minister commit to communicating and talking with the local dentists on this issue?

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

I guess this is easy as long as we have an unlimited amount of money. That’s something we do not have. We know that Stanton has been experiencing a huge level of deficit. We have programs that we are obliged to provide. Dental service is not an insured service of this government. This is why it is not able to be provided at Stanton.

The secondary issue is that we do need to use all of our facilities. This is something that Hay River can provide, and we want to concentrate those services in Hay River for the south and Inuvik in the north. There are lots of details that I need to work through, but a definite maybe? I’m saying yes to revisiting this issue, because I understand that I need to be able to account for the decisions that I make. I will look at it right through again and report back to the Member as to what all the options are that we have available.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

I like yeses. Yeses are good. I’d obviously like to hear her tell me today that she is actually going to communicate with the local dentists and whatnot. Just as a note, I don’t think the insured services are different in Hay River and Inuvik, so we’re not talking different prices there.

There are savings to the Government of the Northwest Territories to move forward and provide these surgeries to kids. Hay River has indicated to me that they’re quite happy, but they’re overwhelmed. They’re not able to move forward on these oral surgeries as quickly as they’d like. We do need to do something different. Once again I’d like to hear the Minister say that she’s going to do it and not that she’s maybe going to do it. I’d like to hear

her definitely say that she is going to work with the local dentists to find a resolution to these problems.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

The problem has never been with the local dentists. Obviously, the dentists would be happy if the government provided a service and facility to provide their services. That is not really the issue. The issue is putting the burden on…. I understand that this is a huge issue for parents with children who need to have dental surgery. What we need to remember is that health care costs are under pressure. We can’t do everything for everybody. And when we have limited dollars, we have do what we are required to do by our health insurance program. Dental surgery is not one of them. We as a legislature have to make choices about what services we’re going to provide and not.

Secondary, I think that’s an important thing. We as a Legislature have to decide how to use our resources. If we can maximize the use of other facilities, then we need to consider that. I’m willing to consult with any stakeholders to see how we can make this work, and I’m willing to get back to the Member on that.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy .

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The children are our future, and by dealing with their oral issues now and getting their teeth healthy and their gums healthy and their mouths healthy, we’re actually going to save ourselves a lot of money down the road. When they get older and they have poor oral health, they’ll be sick people. Obviously, I want her to continue.

I’m curious. I’ve seen the photos. Has the Minister seen the photos of these young children with their mouths full of sores and wounds that pus out where their teeth used to be? Has she shared that with her Cabinet colleagues? I think that if they were to see these pictures, they would understand the ramifications of not taking action on these issues.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Yes, I have. I was the Minister who was in the room with yourself, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Hay River North . I am the Minister and the department who worked to get this program re-established in Hay River. We understand the needs. It’s not about who needs to do what. This is not a government health insurance program. We need to consider how we’re using our dollars, and this is what I’m doing. I will get back to the Member after I’ve revisited this issue.

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Question 492-16(2) Dental Surgeries At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to reference the statement made by the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment yesterday in regard to apprenticeship and occupational certification and the review that was done. I’m very pleased to hear that a review was done. From my understanding of people who are involved in apprenticeship certification, it was a review that was well overdue.

The Minister stated yesterday that some of the changes that have been implemented are “streamlining activities, making the system more efficient for employers and trades people. There is evidence of results, with the number of registered apprentices climbing by almost 25 per cent…from about 320 for the past several years to just over 400 as of September 1, 2008.”

I’d like to ask the Minister: I understand that we run apprenticeship programs at Aurora College in Fort Smith. I’d like to know what apprenticeship programs are offered at that college.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, we do offer a variety of apprenticeship programs at Aurora College. I can provide the detailed lists of all the different apprenticeship and trades programs we do offer. I can certainly commit to the Member to provide that detailed information. Mahsi.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Minister. I don’t actually need a list of those programs, although it might be interesting to have a look at it.

I’m wondering if the Minister can advise on how thoroughly these programs are subscribed to. Basically, I’m wanting to know whether these programs are full all the time. If we have a listing of, say, 20 apprenticeship programs in Fort Smith, do they run all 20 every year? Do they run all 20 every semester? If we have 20 programs, how thoroughly are they subscribed to?

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, those programs would vary depending on the type of interest in the program. Sometimes we continue to work with the industry where there’s a need. It depends on the industry’s needs. Then we see more students in the program. Most of the time we do have the trades programs to full capacity. But, again, it does vary, depending on certain programs and certain interest from the students and from the community.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

It’s my understanding that it does happen that programs are scheduled and they are then cancelled. I wonder if the Minister could advise under what circumstances apprenticeship programs are cancelled.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Some of the programs have been cancelled in the past due to limited seating capacity. We do have certain criteria that we follow, where in order to cancel a program, there should be a certain number of students into the program. I can certainly provide to the Member that information on the criteria and the guidelines we use for these particular courses we offer.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I’d like to suggest that cancellation of scheduled programs has a huge impact on both the employer and the employee in this instance. We are concerned why we’re losing people to the South, and cancellation of apprenticeship programs is one possibility. I’ve heard of one instance where that’s happened. People plan their lives around scheduled programs, classes and courses, and when there’s a cancellation on short notice, it creates large problems for any number of people.

I’d like to ask the Minister whether or not there are any guidelines as to the amount of notice that is required for a scheduled program when it is cancelled, and if not, why not.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, we certainly don’t want to cancel programs unless we have to. At times we have to go that avenue, but at the same time we do, to the best of our ability, communicate to the students and the families, because we realize the impact that would have on the family and the student. We want to give at least advance notice if there’s going to be cancellation of a program. That will be part of the communication dialogue from our department with Aurora College and on to the students and the families. We do what we can to communicate with the students who will be impacted when there’s a cancellation. Mahsi.

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Question 493-16(2) Apprenticeship Programs At Aurora College

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement I asked about the on the land program with the Department of Health and Social Services and the Sahtu health board. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services : would she consider taking this notion to a pilot project in the Sahtu? People in Colville Lake or Délînê or even Fort Good Hope could have such a program,

inviting the department to have on the land healing programs for people in need.

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the Member’s concern. It is one of the issues I am working on: how to bring the control and the…. I do agree with the Member that the best solutions in healing and grieving and wellness are to be found in communities. I do agree with the Member that we need to revisit the way we are doing that. I’m willing to do that, and I’m willing to work on the proposal and present that to the Members and the Standing Committee on Social Programs.

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

My people were very happy to hear the Minister’s response in terms of her belief in taking healing programs into our backyard, on the land. I’d ask the Minister if she would commit to sitting down with her colleagues through the various initiatives that they have. It’s not to expand bureaucracy or to add another wish list to this government; it’s to see how we can coordinate different initiatives from the different departments. Can you come up with, say, $5,000 to $10,000 for a pilot project in the Sahtu or any other region that would help people in our own way? That is the commitment I ask of the Minister today.

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Yes, I’d be happy to work with the Member on that. Sahtu, as a health authority and health and social services region, has been working really well to improve programs and services there. In order to make real investments, though, and to make a difference and build capacity in communities, we need to do more than just find one program money here, one program money there. I’m interested in changing the policy to see how we could build capacity and put real focus in healing and wellness at the community level. I am working on the proposal, and I look forward to working with the Members as we go forward.

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

I look forward to the Minister’s proposal.

Would the Minister look at our wellness workers in the Sahtu region in terms of hiring elders, hiring well established people in the community who know the people very well? I just want to say that we do have good mental health workers when they come into a region; however, it causes some very difficult challenges for us. Would the Minister look at hiring well established community workers in our communities?

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Those are the levels of detail that we have to work through. As the Members know, we have not had a chance to review our first full functioning business plan, where we could introduce new programs and revisit the old

programs. That’s something we’ll be able to do in the month of November. I look forward to working on a new proposal and working with the Members.

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

An elder at Thomas Manuel said to me, “We have a very simple solution. If we could hire one or two people in our community, we can get the job done.” But we seem to go into a bureaucracy where we have to bring in outside workers — some of them are very good — to work in our communities. So I ask the Minister again on those details: would she commit to hiring local people who have the expertise and the knowledge in the language of our people and the knowledge of our land to work with our people in an aboriginal context that would serve our people in the best ways?

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Yes, I do agree that the local community individuals and organizations and leadership have to be at the forefront in dealing with this issue. I would be happy to make that commitment to work in that way toward that.

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Question 494-16(2) On The Land Healing Programs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to my Member’s statement I made reference to different land claim agreements and, more importantly, the investment those land claim organizations make by way of capital investment. They buy properties from the private sector with regard to retail properties. They’ve made a lot of investment in purchasing these facilities in Inuvik. They’ve gone out of their way to retrofit those buildings, bring them up to standard codes and whatnot. Yet it seems like the whole investments that were made could be a loss because of a government project.

Nowhere has this government made an attempt to ensure that those investments that were made by the land claim organizations are going to be protected in any way. If anything, they’re at risk now because of a government initiative.

I’d like to ask the Premier : exactly where do we stand as a government to protect the private sector’s investments, especially those of land claim organizations that invest tens of millions of dollars to get into a certain sector and then find out that the government is competing against them in that particular sector?

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The Hon. Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First and foremost, for the record, we have been living up to the commitments through the land claims. One of those examples is the MOUs we’ve signed with the Gwich’in in the past. We’re negotiating with the Sahtu, the Inuvialuit. But those are separate from land claims. That’s a process we’ve entered into to try and work with the corporations so that they can build up capacity in our communities in the North. We must recognize that.

Specifically in the community of Inuvik — and the Member has talked about the office space situation — 93 per cent of the space that is used by the Government of the Northwest Territories throughout a number of departments is leased space. We’re working with the private sector in those areas. In fact, some would say that when you look at the mix of the portfolio between owned and leased facilities, we have overextended ourselves on the lease side.

The move that’s been planned by the Department of Public Works, working with a number of departments, is to deal with one office space that is leased by another company; it’s called the Perry Building. That fell into some safety concerns there, and we had to move staff out and put them in a number of other places — not the most efficient use of our staff, the way they’ve been put in place.

The department had gone out and issued an RFP initially, and there were no responses back. After that, there were a number of responses, of proposals, after the fact. But because there’s interest from a number of groups, it was felt that a tender needed to go out on that space.

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

With regard to that response, I may even flip the same question with regard to the Yellowknife market. Ninety per cent of the market is private sector in Yellowknife, yet the federal government built a facility here in Yellowknife. They at least had the guts to go out and have an independent review to see exactly what the market disruption would have been over the long term here in Yellowknife in order to satisfy the private sector.

I’d like to ask the Premier : is this government willing to do a similar thing in regard to the Inuvik market and have an independent review to see exactly what the market disruption is over the next ten or 20 years in regard to these facilities that the private sector has invested in?

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

There’s been a lot of work done in this area already. One, looking at the fact that we’ve had to move people out of an existing space, we’ve got to make up that shortfall. The department has notified all those who have leased space with the Government of the Northwest Territories in their community that we are not shortening our leases and we’re not removing people out of that leased space.

We’re going to accommodate that, out of a number of our own older buildings that we have, as well as those staff who were moved out of an existing space that fell into some safety concerns.

The confirmation letters have been sent. There will be no disruption in our existing portfolios when it comes to leased assets.

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

The government requires 25,000 square feet of space. They’re going to build a facility for 47,000 square feet of space. That’s double what the government’s needs are. That is going to double the requirements and needs in the Inuvik region. If you’re talking about office space needs versus the size of a facility that’s going to be built, it’s twice the size of what’s required by the government today. If you can’t tell me that the other half of that space is going to be filled by somebody else.… Those people have to come from somewhere.

As a government we realize that the Inuvik economy is not really that secure without a pipeline. These people made a lot of investments in that area to hopefully take advantage of the market in that area. But as a government competing against that market, it’s not really fair to the private sector. Why should they invest in this market if this is the way the Government of the Northwest Territories is going to treat them?

I’d like to ask the Premier again: why is this government not doing a market disruption review by an independent body?

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . I’d like to remind Members that the issue we’re talking about is before Committee of the Whole right now in the Capital Estimates. That’s the proper place to be debating this. However, I’ll allow the Premier to respond. Mr. Roland .

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Through that process information was provided to Members on the leased space that’s out there in the community. Again, 93 per cent of the office space in Inuvik is leased with a number of companies in the North or in the community as well. As I stated earlier, the department has notified those companies that we are not moving people out of that space. We’re replacing existing space that was used and some of our older facilities that are owned by the Government of the Northwest Territories.

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final short supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just spoke to the gentleman responsible for reviewing, and right now they’re doing a review in regard to the requirements in Inuvik region. They’re telling me that there’s no need for that large an office building

in Inuvik, which will definitely have an effect on the market. If the private sector is already in Inuvik doing this review, how can the Premier tell me they’ve been talking to the sector that they are concerned about in regard to what effect this is going to have on them?

Again, I’d like to ask the Premier : could you put a hold on this project until a thorough review is done to ensure that all avenues have been taken so there will be no market disruption in that particular area in regard to Inuvik properties?

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

This project has been delayed since the events that happened with the Perry Building facility. There are limited amounts of space in the community, whether it’s one office or two offices, but not enough to properly run the departments, as we have been through — for example, the situation with the Perry Building. As well, we have a number of older assets in the community that are being used right now, and we’re either going to have to invest in fixing up the older properties we own or go into a newer facility to replace the space we lost with the closure of two floors in the Perry Building.

Again, the department has notified those who are leasing space from the Government of the Northwest Territories right now that they will not lose that space.

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Question 495-16(2) Protecting The Investment Of Land Claim Organizations

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I want to continue with some questions today for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment . Again it has to do with diamond policy, strategy and vision of the Government of the Northwest Territories as it relates to our diamond file.

I mentioned yesterday that the previous government blew up the diamond division at ITI midway through the life of the last government. I know we are doing work in the area of developing a review of the policy that’s in place for diamonds. I’m wondering: if the division isn’t there, who exactly is doing the work of the review of the policy and the strategy?

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Since diamonds were discovered in the Northwest Territories ten years ago, the Government of the Northwest Territories has been working very hard to maximize the benefits of the diamond industry for NWT residents and businesses.

In particular, we’ve been successful in developing a secondary manufacturing industry here in the North. I’m very proud to say that it’s well recognized within the diamond industry that this has worked very well, and it’s being adopted by other countries that have diamonds. As far as reviewing our policies, it is has been ten years, so it is important work that has to be done. Right now we’re developing our framework internally, and we will be seeking input from the members of the standing committee. Once we have agreed on the framework, my expectation is that we would seek some outside expertise.

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the Minister that we have to maximize the return we get from having diamonds here in the Northwest Territories. I think the Minister stated that the work was being done internally and that it is a framework. Yesterday I said that time is of the essence. I think we need to be on this. I also heard the Minister yesterday state that we did have people attend the three town hall meetings in Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto as it relates to the feasibility of a diamond bourse. What was the purpose of the Government of Northwest Territories attending those meetings?

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to recognize the difference between a province and a territory. Ontario as a province can collect royalties on diamonds that are being produced, so we have to find other ways to maximize benefits to the Northwest Territories. One of the ways we have done that is by requiring an allocation from the diamond mines and establishing a secondary diamond industry. So that is how we’re maximizing our benefits.

We had people attend the diamond bourse hearings that were held so that we could stay on top of it and monitor what was going on with regard to the diamond bourse. There has been no indication that this is something the Ontario government will continue with; we haven’t seen the report as yet. But we are staying on top of it.

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, the Minister makes a good case. Ontario is a province. The Northwest Territories obviously is a territory, and I believe that it is vitally more important for us as a territory to maximize the opportunity. Ontario has a tremendous amount of other opportunities all over the province, and we are struggling here to find opportunities for our people. We have four operating diamond mines in our territory, yet as a government we just don’t seem to grasp that we can do more and we should be doing more in terms of diamonds. I want to get a better understanding from the Minister. Again, were we just there watching an opportunity pass us by?

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I guess the way I look at it is that the majority of the diamonds produced in Canada are produced in the Northwest Territories, and if we wanted to develop a diamond bourse and it was concluded that it would be something that would be worthwhile and would benefit the residents of the Northwest Territories, then we would look at doing something similar. But this was a Government of Ontario initiative. They had hired a consultant that went around and held hearings, so we went and listened and heard what people were saying.

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, my point is: why is Ontario getting out in front ofthe Government of the Northwest Territories? Why aren’t we getting a consultant? Why aren’t we doing some meetings? Why aren’t we talking to the industry? Why aren’t we trying to set up a diamond bourse and exchange here in Yellowknife, which is the diamond capital of North America? It’s going to be located on Bay Street, not here in Yellowknife, where it should be, and that’s a shame. Again, we need to be in front of it.

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, when diamonds were first discovered ten years ago and we developed our diamond policy, we concluded that we would maximize benefits to the Northwest Territories by having an allocation of diamonds provided for the Northwest Territories and developing a secondary manufacturing industry. We are now reviewing our policy. If it comes out that a diamond bourse would provide additional benefits to the Northwest Territories over and above what we already have, then certainly we will look at that as part of our review of our diamond policy.

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Question 496-16(2) GNWT Diamond Policies And Practices

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 497-16(2) Negotiated Contract For School Construction In Inuvik

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, my questions today are about the negotiated contract for the construction of the replacement of the two schools in Inuvik. There are land claims in place with respect to negotiated contracts in various regions in the Northwest Territories. In the Inuvik region those land claims extend to include the interests of the Gwich’in people. I would like to know if the Cabinet, when negotiating this contract, requested a legal opinion on any obligation they may have to the Gwich’in for a negotiated contract of this nature in Inuvik.

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Question 497-16(2) Negotiated Contract For School Construction In Inuvik

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Hon. Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 497-16(2) Negotiated Contract For School Construction In Inuvik

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process of the negotiated contract policy that the government holds is one that has been put in front of aboriginal organizations and governments for their review and consultation with us, and some amendments have taken place. That policy has been on the books for quite a number of years. When the issue of the negotiated contracts comes up, that is when the claims are very specific. If we are going to negotiate a contract, then we have to go to the aboriginal organization that is in the area. In this case, both organizations, the Inuvialuit and Gwich’in, provided letters of support for the negotiation process.

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Question 497-16(2) Negotiated Contract For School Construction In Inuvik

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, obviously I don’t have access to those letters of support. I have seen a list of the people who did provide letters of support, but I haven’t seen those letters of support.

I would like to know if the Premier would be prepared to make those letters of support available to this House and to the Members. Also, did the letter of support from the Gwich’in include anything about receiving part of the work that would be associated with this negotiated contract? It’s my understanding that Dowland Contracting is 51 per cent owned by the Inuvialuit, and it is also my understanding that….. Well, I’ll just leave it at that. Was there anything in the letter of support that could be interpreted as a condition with respect to receiving benefits for the Gwich’in under this negotiated contract?

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Question 497-16(2) Negotiated Contract For School Construction In Inuvik

Oral Questions

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, the letters of support I believe would be in the package. If they aren’t, we will ensure that Members get that. In fact, as the department goes through the process of finalizing the contract process, I understand that they are targeting about 90 per cent to fall within northern contractors. So that is one of the reasons the negotiation process is ava