Debates of Feb. 24th, 2022

This is page numbers 3481 - 3522 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Mission, Values and Vision

Celebrating Indigenous Languages Month

Constituent Housing Issue

Housing Priorities

Co-Investment Fund

Housing

Housing

Housing

Housing in Whati

Housing

Housing Partnerships

International Decade of Indigenous Languages

Eulogy for Bill Rowe

Mr. Jacobson's Reply

Housing Priorities

Housing

Fort Smith Housing Issue

Housing in Whati

Housing

Housing

Co-Investment Fund

Housing

Housing Partnerships

Written Question 34-19(2): Municipal Infrastructure Gap

Written Question 35-19(2): NWT Health Status Chartbook

Tabled Document 570-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Mission, Values and Vision

Tabled Document 571-19(2): 31st Annual Report 2019-2020 Victims Assistance Committee of the Northwest Territories

Tabled Document 572-19(2): 32nd Annual Report 2020-2021 Victims Assistance Committee of the Northwest Territories

Tabled Document 573-19(2): Mind and Spirit: Promoting Mental Health and Addictions Recovery in the Northwest Territories - Child and Youth Mental Wellness Action Plan 2017-2022

Referral of Minister's Statement 202-19(2) and Tabled Document 567-19(2) to Committee of the Whole

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole On Bills And Other Matters

Tabled Document 561(2) Main Estimates 2022-2023 - Environment and Natural Resources - Deferral of Department Carried

Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Diane Archie , Mr. Bonnetrouge , Hon. Paulie Chinna , Ms. Cleveland , Hon. Caroline Cochrane , Mr. Edjericon , Hon. Julie Green , Mr. Jacobson , Mr. Johnson , Ms. Martselos , Ms. Nokleby , Mr. O'Reilly , Ms. Semmler , Hon. R.J. Simpson , Mr. Rocky Simpson , Hon. Shane Thompson , Hon. Caroline Wawzonek . Ms. Weyallon-Armstrong

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

Page 3481

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Ministers' Statements. Minister for Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Employment.

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Minister's Statement 204-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Mission, Values and Vision

Ministers' Statements

Page 3481

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Madam Speaker, on November 24th I rose before the House to announce a strategy for renewal of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation - a strategy that is focused on taking action to address the housing crisis in the Northwest Territories. I am very pleased to rise again today to announce that, guided by the strategy, we are continuing to take action and set the stage for real, positive change.

Madam Speaker, in a motion on March 4, 2021, this Legislative Assembly told the Government of the Northwest Territories to update the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's mission statement to ensure it reflects the corporation's role in social wellness. I have heard the Members and I acknowledge and share their desire for change. That is why one of the first actions in the strategy is to review and update the corporation's mission statement.

During the fall, we collected input on the motion from the Legislative Assembly from the large volume of existing reports and directions, including the NWT ombud and from the corporation's own staff. We also asked the Council of Leaders Housing Working Group for input on the future and direction of the corporation. This input has resulted in its mandate for the Housing Corporation's composed of a new statement of mission, values, and a vision.

Madam Speaker, the corporation's new mission focuses on the wellbeing of individuals, on fairness, and on providing support to those most in need, recognizing the Housing Corporation is about more than building houses. We are part of an integrated support system composed of other government departments and partnerships. At the time, limited resources we needed to focus that supports on those who are most in need.

The new mandate also describes six values to guide the corporation. They are:

Client focused;

Accountability;

Reconciliation;

Collaboration;

Innovation; and

Sustainability.

Madam Speaker, these values reflect a more modern and client-focused approach to the work of the Corporation.

Madam Speaker, I realize that some people might say that a new mission, values, and vision for the corporation is just a piece of paper. People may ask, "What real impact will the mandate have on the ground for residents and communities across the Northwest Territories?"

Our new mandate will serve as the measure of everything that the corporation does. It will serve as a lens through which we undertake the review of the Housing Corporation's policies and programs in the next steps of the renewal. It will also guide the corporation's relationship with the public, with the clients, and with its partners as it strives to address the housing gap in the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, I would like to read the corporation's new mission into the records because I am very proud of the new direction it sets. The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's new mission is to increase the well-being of individual and communities by providing fair access to quality housing support for people most in need.

I give my firm commitment to the Legislative Assembly that, as Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation , my direction to the corporation will consist with our mission, values and vision, which I will be tabling later today.

Madam Speaker, I am excited about this new mandate and where the next steps in the renewal process will take us. I look forward to rising again in the House soon and providing Members with another update on the actions we are taking under our renewal strategy, helping the GNWT meet its mandate commitment to increase the number of affordable homes and reduce housing core need in the Northwest Territories. With this Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the staff of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, all stakeholders, and Indigenous groups that have taken part to make this document and for me to table it today..

Mahsi to the Northwest Territories. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 204-19(2): Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Mission, Values and Vision

Ministers' Statements

Page 3482

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' Statements. Minister for Education, Culture and Employment .

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Minister's Statement 205-19(2): Celebrating Indigenous Languages Month

Ministers' Statements

Page 3482

R.J. Simpson

Hay River North

Madam Speaker, "Let's Go Fishing." That's the theme of this year's Indigenous Languages Month, which we celebrate every February in partnership with Indigenous governments and the NWT Literacy Council. To help everyone embrace this year's celebration, we are sharing a delicious fish chowder recipe in all nine official Indigenous languages. Throughout February, we continue to encourage residents to engage in the exciting activities in communities and schools to promote Indigenous language use.

Madam Speaker, the Northwest Territories is a landscape of rich and vibrant cultures that are the foundation of our northern identity. Our nine official Indigenous languages capture the diversity of our territory and make it truly unique. As leaders and residents, we share the responsibility of revitalizing our Cree, Inuvialuit, Dene, and Metis cultures and languages through education and practice.

Our Indigenous Languages Action Plan has two main goals:

Revitalizing Indigenous languages; and

Enhancing access to government services in Indigenous languages.

And over the past year, we have continued to work diligently towards these goals. In 2021, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment hosted two virtual interpreter/translator gatherings that included 43 participants. At these gatherings, the department heard a range of needs for support and training,

Including the need for technology, linguistics, and specialized training;

The need for accreditation and certification opportunities; Resource development; and The need to recruit more Indigenous language speakers to join this profession.

Based on this feedback, the department is researching potential partnerships to offer training and supports to new and existing interpreters and translators.

In July 2021, the department launched the second delivery of the Mentor-Apprentice Program, and it was bigger and better than ever. The amount of language learning hours was increased from 100 to 200, and the length of the program was increased from four to eight months.

Although the program runs until March 2022, 35 pairs of apprentices and mentors have already completed the required training for six language groups:

Dene Zhatye

Inuvialuktun

Gwich'in

Dene Kede

Tlicho

Dene Souyne.

A final gathering of mentors and apprentices is being planned for next month. It will include a program evaluation, training, and an evening gala that will showcase apprentices speaking in their languages.

Madam Speaker, 2022 marks the fourth year of the GNWT's Indigenous Languages Revitalization Scholarship Program. This year, ten $5,000 scholarships will be available to students who are registered in an accredited post-secondary program with a focus on Indigenous language revitalization. To date, there have been 31 scholarships that have been awarded to incentivize students to pursue studies focusing on Indigenous language revitalization.

In 2021, the department also updated the NWT JK-12 Indigenous Languages and Education Handbook. The handbook provides educators with a user-friendly guide to implement the Indigenous Language Education Policy, ensuring quality, culture-based school programming, and a whole-school approach to Indigenous language use. Contributions to the handbook were made by elders and knowledge-keepers, regional Indigenous language and education coordinators, Indigenous language instructors, other educators, community members, and students.

Rooted in the wisdom, traditions, and lived-experience of the elders and knowledge-keepers that guided the creation of the Dene Kede and Inuuqatigiit curricula, all educators can draw upon this resource to strengthen Indigenous language education and support language revitalization in the territory. The updated handbook will be distributed to school staff in the coming months.

Revitalizing Indigenous language takes ingenuity, commitment, and courage. I have heard it from the people in the Mentor-Apprentice Program - it takes courage to start and courage to make mistakes and courage to learn. Madam Speaker, I would like to test my own courage.

[Translation unavailable]

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 205-19(2): Celebrating Indigenous Languages Month

Ministers' Statements

Page 3483

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Member for Thebacha . This is the first of four theme days in this sitting, so Members' statements. Member for Thebacha .

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Member's Statement 934-19(2): Constituent Housing Issue

Members' Statements

Page 3483

Frieda Martselos

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, along with the rest of my colleagues here, I have a whole host of housing-related issues with my constituents in my community. I could go on about general issues relating the NWT Housing Corp, however today I am going to focus on one constituent.

This is an elderly man who is nearly 80 years old and has been dealing with increased health problems including a recent heart attack and even contacting COVID-19, not to mention he and his wife being homeless temporarily after their home was destroyed nearly three years ago.

Madam Speaker, this constituent endured a tornado in June 2019 which severely damaged his home to the point that it was unlivable. In other words, his home was totalled, and since that time his life has been turned upside down in dealing with the after effects.

Since I was elected, I have been doing everything I can to help with the situation. I've gone to the housing minister at least a dozen times, trying to get this constituent fair treatment in the aftermath of a natural disaster. Madam Speaker, after this constituent's home was destroyed, the Northwest Territories Housing Corp did an assessment of his property and gave him a very lowball park offer to purchase his land. Then he was put into a public housing unit but his rental costs have been very high for him to manage. In fact, there is a major discrepancy regarding the level of rent he's currently paying.

Based on the housing corp's own pamphlet on public housing and subsidized rental housing, he is paying too much for his monthly rent under his current monthly income. Even with the combined income of his spouse, my constituent is still paying more than he should be.

Madam Speaker, this is someone who has worked 44 years for the territorial government in various capacities. He was devoted public servant who did everything right to provide for himself and his family, but he has been receiving the short end of the stick in his dealings with the NWT Housing Corporation since his home was destroyed. To treat a former long-time public employee and a residential school survivor like this is not acceptable. To make matters worse, this whole experience has made my constituent go into debt as he's always been supporting his family with various costs, including post-secondary education. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

In closing, Madam Speaker, it is not right at all for our government to treat this constituent's situation of a natural disaster in some a different way compared to other victims of natural disasters in the NWT. I'm grateful that the flood victims of Fort Simpson and Jean Marie got complete compensation there. The same treatment should be extended to my constituent because it was

an act of God and should be treated as a natural disaster. My constituent is sad and feels he has been forgotten. I will have questions for the Minister of Housing later today. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

MADAM SPEAKER: T hank you, Member. Members' statements. Member for Hay River South .

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Member's Statement 935-19(2): Housing Priorities

Members' Statements

Page 3484

Rocky Simpson

Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, housing was identified and continues to be our priority for this government and, more importantly, it is a basic need that has a significant impact on one's quality of life and potentially one's future. This government, with all its good intentions, has made minimal progress over the last several decades on meeting the housing needs of Indigenous people in the Northwest Territories - and we continue down that same path.

We found our past approach to be flawed and through renewal we are hoping to see positive change. It is important to give a new approach flexibility that allows for adapting to change without having to start at square one. Madam Speaker, many who look to the NWT Housing Corporation for public housing, do so because there are no other options. People come to us, as MLAs, and plead for help. They go to their Indigenous representatives and plead for help. Yet, there is nothing we can say or do that will provide any hope or comfort to a long-standing problem, which is lack of public housing.

Indigenous People in need of housing need not only pressure this government, but must pressure Indigenous and federal governments as well. Our focus must be on solutions that will fill the many units sitting empty in our communities, place new units on those vacant lands owned by the NWT Housing Corporation or Indigenous governments, and increase program funding.

Madam Speaker, I must give credit to the department on the timing and purchase of the Nordic Arms Apartment complex in YK. The per door cost will be considerably less than constructing a new complex or building 24 single-detached homes. Following that acquisition, I will now be looking to the Minister and her department to begin planning a residential complex in Hay River for seniors and one for singles and couples. Land has been sitting vacant for several years and it is time make use of it.

Madam Speaker, the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation and her team have made some good decisions which we need to see expanded throughout the NWT. We now see Indigenous governments taking on housing initiatives, seeking solutions that work for their communities, dealing directly with the federal government and using own resources for delivery. If we expect ongoing results, we need cooperation amongst all level of governments with Indigenous governments taking the lead. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Member's Statement 935-19(2): Housing Priorities

Members' Statements

Page 3484

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake .

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Member's Statement 936-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

Members' Statements

Page 3484

Kevin O'Reilly

Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. On January 25th of this year, there was another announcement about funding for 29 houses being built in small communities. That's all good but it got me thinking about that federal co-investment carve out for $60 million that was set aside for the NWT.

After the last Cabinet failed to make housing a priority, we got very little under the National Housing Strategy, but that's another story.

Recently I got an accounting of the funds spent and used under the NWT co-investment carve out. $25.5 million of this amount was allocated to the NWT Housing Corp to assist with the construction of 60 public housing units and the remaining $34.5 million was allocated to Indigenous governments and organizations to create 66 affordable homes through a combination of repair and new construction projects.

As for the cost share requirements, the NWT Housing Corp has had to utilize its own fiscal resources to supplement the $25.5 million federal funding for the delivery of the 60 public housing units. Unforeseen construction cost increases are going to cost the Housing Corp another $6 million in internal resources. And there could be more. It's not clear what funding the Indigenous governments and other organizations had to put up to access the NWT co-investment carve out. The average cost of a new housing unit, using these funds, amounts to about $520,000.

I guess that's good but I wonder whether we can do any better and what this will mean for the O and M costs for the NWT Housing Corp. I also wonder whether other NWT organizations have been successful in accessing the National Co-Investment Fund and what, if any, support has been given by the NWT Housing Corporation. What is clear, Madam Speaker, is that the NWT Housing Corporation needs improved communications with its clients, MLAs, and the public. I will have lots of questions later today for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 936-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

Members' Statements

Page 3484

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Members' statements. Member for Nunakput .

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Member's Statement 937-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3485

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I'll continue to talk about the needs of my riding of housing.

Recent surveys shows the population of Paulatuk has increased by 33 people, it's up to 297. But unfortunately the survey showed that the number of houses in the community has declined 8 percent. Currently 81 homes in Paulatuk for 298 people. Of these 81 homes, 23 of these units are in core need, Madam Speaker. That means that either the home is not adequate, affordable, suitable for the people to live in the community.

Yesterday we heard from the Minister we have 15 people. When I asked, we have 15 to 17 people on the waitlist. But I'm hearing different. I'm hearing it's almost up to 28 people in the community, which is around five families, Madam Speaker.

Almost 10 percent of the community is essentially homelessness and couch surfing. So it's a significant number of people without homes which leads to overcrowding and just hardships, pressure on everybody.

2019, 16 percent of the homes in Paulatuk, six people or more living inside. That was nearly 13 overcrowded homes in the community. Madam Speaker, Paulatuk, we have 81 homes, 298 people, 81 of those homes are -- 23 of those homes are not adequate or suitable but we're still using them and we'll keep fixing them. We have to give those units to the community, to the people that want to take over those houses so we can add into the housing core, Madam Speaker. Again, 15 to 17 people when the community says 28, people in core need of housing.

Under the United Nations Act, 130 litres of water per day per person and our government gets $35,000 per year to provide service for every constituent across the territory. We need to start working together to getting housing core need in our communities. And then like I said yesterday, Madam Speaker in my Member's statements that we have to look at it a different way. We have to get Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and the community corporations to get on board to start pushing to get houses for the community and working together for a stronger better Beaufort Delta and Nunakput. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 937-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3485

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Members' statements. Member for Great Slave .

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Member's Statement 938-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3485

Katrina Nokleby

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Northview Real Estate Investment Trust, or REIT, was formed in 1986 by former GNWT civil servants that eventually evolved into a publicly-traded company allowing individual investors to buy shares in real estate portfolios. Northview holds thousands of residential and commercial units in Yellowknife and Iqaluit. Sources vary on how much they own, but it's estimated to be between 50 to 80 percent of the rental market.

In 2018, 28 percent of Northview's operating income was derived in northern Canada. REITs are recognized as financialized landlords and the largest landlords for multi-family rental units across Canada with the most significant penetration into markets with weak rent control. In a recent study of tight rental markets like those in the North, it is stated that REITs do the minimum to maintain their buildings while charging higher rents because tenants are desperate. This leads to issues with mold, water damage, pest infestations, and all kinds of frustrations as people have no other choice.

On November 2nd, 2020, Northview Apartment REIT was purchased by two Toronto firms for $4.9 billion. The purchase was considered stable as 66 percent of their leases held in the territories were secured by government or credit-rated corporations. Rent was increased across the board by $300, and with the control of so many units, the market prices continued to skyrocket in Yellowknife well beyond affordability.

In Yellowknife, nearly 35 percent of the entire housing stock was built before 1980, and another 45 percent was added during the '80s and '90s. With supply chains increasingly disrupted through the pandemic, the cost of construction materials and supplies required for housing construction and maintenance have continued to rise, driving up housing prices to unaffordable levels.

The average home price in Yellowknife rose to just below $486,000 in 2021, an all-time high, with average sale prices increasing by 22 percent year over year.

In 2018, the City of Yellowknife conducted a point-in-time homelessness count and found that 338 people were experiencing homelessness in the city with a significant overrepresentation of Indigenous people, particularly children and youth.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 42 percent, or 142 of those enumerated, were age 24 or younger with 104 of those being children under the age of 18. Significantly, the count identified that 90 percent of the city's homeless identified as Indigenous compared to the city overall at 23 percent. A large portion of the homeless in Yellowknife are from other communities due in part to inadequate housing in those home communities.

The terrible state of our housing market means that for far too long residents, and in particular Indigenous residents, have had to choose between a roof over their heads or feeding their families; a choice that, in my opinion, is impossible to make and should be a source of deep shame for our government and nation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 938-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3486

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho .

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Member's Statement 939-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3486

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, within the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, there's always been concerns about the rising cost of electrical power and heating fuel usage to all their rental units. I believe I've offered up suggestions as to how to combat the fuel usage and the rising cost of the diesel fuel in the past by incorporating wood pellet boiler systems to their units as a central unit which is when a central heating system is set up, it can heat up to multiple units. And I'm not talking about the apartment buildings.

This is like replacing -- if you have five house, you have five furnaces, five fuel tanks, that's a lot of fuel usage. When you put a central heating system, like a wood pellet boiler, you can connect all five units which is saving you, you can realize significant savings then. Because, you know, biomass district heating systems reduce reliance on imported fuels, reduce fuel consumption and provide, you know, significant savings overall to the utility costs. And it's known to cut greenhouse gas emissions which we're trying to reach at some point. And we're just not getting there with housing.

I recall back in 2014, I'm just recalling from memory, that we sent a few ministers, or MLAs at that time, to Norway to look at the wood pellet boiler systems and I think it was to introduce them into the NWT. Mind you, those two MLAs, or Ministers, were Ministers of Housing Corporation at some point. But nothing was ever incorporated at that time which is quite surprising considering, you know, the rising cost of living to all residents of the Northwest Territories, even people that rent. And it just shocks me that we haven't even contemplated that yet. We're in the 19th Assembly.

And with that, I'm going to have questions for the Minister of Northwest Territories Housing Corporation at the appropriate time. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 939-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3486

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Members' statements. Member for Monfwi .

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Member's Statement 940-19(2): Housing in Whati

Members' Statements

Page 3486

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Monfwi

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Later today, I will be tabling photos of the home of a constituent from Whati.

The Housing Corporation is asking this constituent to sign a refinance agreement for $140,000. Madam Speaker, the photos I will table later today show that this House has a lot of problems. Madam Speaker, they are using assessed value, not actual value, to determine how much the house and property is worth, which is another way of saying Housing Corporation decides on its own how much the house is worth. Most places in Canada, the price of houses are determined by market value. Quote, "The price at which an asset will sell for in the competitive setting". End of quotation.

Madam Speaker, there is no competitive setting outside of the capital and regional centres in the Northwest Territories. Since Housing owns most homes in small NWT communities, people have no choice but to accept the deal Housing Corporation gives them or they become homeless. There is a clear power imbalance between the buyer and seller.

This buyer feels she has no choice but to sign. She does not want the nine people living in the house or the newborn baby to become homeless. In this case, the Housing Corporation is asking for $140,000 for a house that does not even have a flushing toilet and is in poor condition. Madam Speaker, this is my understanding of assessed value works in simple terms. In 2017, I purchased my car for $60,000. Today, its market value is $20,000. Madam Speaker, if Housing was to sell my car, they would assess its value and try to sell it for $60,000 purchase price.

It is unfair for the person buying that car to pay more than $20,000 market value. Madam Speaker, can I have unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

People buying these houses are overpaying for a house that is going to depreciate in value over time just so they do not get put on the street. There is no housing market in small communities. Very few homes are ever bought or sold. Madam Speaker, there should be an ombudsman or a third party to oversee the sale of houses and ensure houses are fairly valued.

I think in these situations, the Housing Corporation has a conflict of interest. On one hand, they are mandated and government-funded to provide programs to the people. On the other hand, they act like a corporation to try and turn profit. I think that is why the public distrusts the Housing Corporation. Madam Speaker, I think the Housing Corporation should become a department of the Government of the Northwest Territories and cease to be a corporation so they can act only in the best interests of families and NWT residents. Madam Speaker, I will have questions for Minister of Housing at appropriate time. Thank you.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 940-19(2): Housing in Whati

Members' Statements

Page 3487

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North .

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Member's Statement 941-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3487

Rylund Johnson

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When providing public housing, the government should not be paying market rent. However, Madam Speaker, as we know, right now in order to get a income housing allowance you must be placed on a public housing waitlist. Why is this? It's because we know providing people housing in public housing we own is cheeper than paying market rent. Yet despite this, presently income assistance is paying market rent for 885 people at a cost of $7.3 million a year. Additionally, our own Housing Corporation is paying another $3 million in market rent to Northview instead of building public housing, Madam Speaker. We need to build and own and operate more public housing.

We hear this continued concern about operations and maintenance. Where are we going to find the O and M money? Well, it's in the ECE income assistance budget presently, Madam Speaker. There is $7.3 million of operating money that we are giving to private landlords, predominantly in Yellowknife, predominantly to Northview, which could be hundreds of public housing units built.

I will have questions for the Minister of Housing about whether and when we are going to build some more public housing and actually put an end to our public housing waitlist which, right now, is simply being paid at market rents well above what the rate should be. We save money by building housing. We save it in health, we save it in justice, and we save it in income assistance. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 941-19(2): Housing

Members' Statements

Page 3487

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake .

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Member's Statement 942-19(2): Housing Partnerships

Members' Statements

Page 3487

Caitlin Cleveland

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yesterday as my child got dressed for hockey, children in the Ukraine braced for war. As Russia makes the worst kind of history, we must grapple with the best way to be activists for humanity. Again, we face the interconnectedness of the world.

Two years ago, I stood in this House and spoke about the rising cost of construction and healthcare and the vulnerability of the North to surprise events ranging from faulty sterilization machines at the new hospital to climate change, the global pandemic, and now a war that will continue to escalate costs and uncertainty everywhere.

We need to approach this vulnerability differently or simply be overwhelmed by it. Our business-as-usual solution to our priority issues, like social housing, is to throw more money at it. This is a game the NWT cannot win. Supply chain disruptions, labour shortages, and unpredictable inflation will keep us chasing escalating capital and operating costs with little hope of keeping pace. In addition, housing cost challenges across the territory will have huge impacts on housing costs in Yellowknife. We need different solutions.

CMHC recognized this issue through yesterday's $80 million announcement to drive innovative specific to northern housing logistic supply chain and trained labour issues. They recognize building housing the way we are doing it today isn't working. Working within our budget requires creativity, trusted partnerships, and collaborative leadership.

Madam Speaker, the Housing Corporation told this House during our first budget cycle the solution to our northern housing problem is half a billion dollars or partnerships and preferably both. The federal $40 billion National Housing Strategy has made it clear they would like to work with Indigenous governments and NGOs to get this money moving across Canada. We must facilitate those partnerships. Examples of successful public-private partnerships for public housing exist across Canada.

Co-operative ventures between the public and private sectors and Indigenous governments are building on the expertise and each partner to share cost, revenue, and responsibility. Fair financial relationships between all parties need to be signed with a common unified goal of housing as a fundamental factor of thriving communities. Examples of this already exist.

The Housing Corporation has transferred vacant stock to Indigenous organizations to renovate with federal dollars. Transferring to NGOs for federal capital grants and has worked with viable and third party construction companies to build housing while the corporation takes on the long-term obligations of operations and maintenance without the capital cost. Everybody wins but no one does it all. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement, please.

---Unanimous consent granted.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. These are all great examples, but they are exceptions rather than the rule, Madam Speaker. Finding and supporting these partnerships need to become our priority Number 1. Thank you.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 942-19(2): Housing Partnerships

Members' Statements

Page 3488

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Members' statements. Member for Hay River North .

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Member's Statement 943-19(2): International Decade of Indigenous Languages

Members' Statements

Page 3488

R.J. Simpson

Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am sorry to ruin the theme day here, but I want to talk about a different topic.

As members are aware, it is Indigenous Languages Month and the Members may not be aware but the UN also declared 2022 to 2032 the international decade of Indigenous languages. I think this is a monumental event, and I'm always happy when I hear Members of this House speak in Indigenous languages.

My colleague from Boot Lake, the Member for Yellowknife South I've heard, of course our Member for Monfwi , and I think that to mark not just Indigenous Languages Month but the international decade of Indigenous languages, that as an Assembly we should take this opportunity and every Member of this Assembly should take an opportunity to speak in an Indigenous language at least once during this Assembly. I think that we can have all 22 -- 21 Members of this Assembly having used an Indigenous language in this House, and I think that would be absolutely amazing and something to be proud of.

So, Madam Speaker, I challenge all Members, including yourself, to use an Indigenous language before the end of this Assembly. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Member's Statement 943-19(2): International Decade of Indigenous Languages

Members' Statements

Page 3488

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Quyananni, Member. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh .

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Member's Statement 944-19(2): Eulogy for Bill Rowe

Members' Statements

Page 3488

Shane Thompson

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, William Rowe, no ordinary man with no middle name as he was the middle of Rowe's family. He was born on August 24th, 1931. His mother said she ran out of names and one was good enough. That was Bill, one of a kind but so unique that she would always remember him.

Son to Joseph and Maryanne Rowe, he was a brother to 11 siblings, father to six children, and many grandchildren and great grandchildren. He would always say his best accomplishment was his family.

Bill left home at the age of 17 to find his way in the world. He was fond of mechanics and had become successful as a general contractor and founder of Rowe's Construction and JM Ranch.

On January 28, 1953, Bill married a foxy red, a red fox, Rita Ruth Lockhart and they had many, many adventures for 67 years together. With the passing of Rita, Bill remained strong for the family however he always missed his little red fox.

Bill and Rita spent 30 years in the north, over 40 years in Berwyn, Alberta, where their home was and the place that captured their heart. They would still come north to visit their family and friends throughout this time.

During his service, the family passed on the following message to his neighbours and friends: Their father wanted them to know how much he respected and truly valued their time, friendship throughout his life. Bill lived by the Golden Rule, treat one another as you wish to be treated. He loved to laugh, a beer, and his friends and family.

Madam Speaker, I had the honour knowing Mr. Bill Rowe throughout most of my life, and I can say he did live by his Golden Rule.

Madam Speaker, he will be missed by his children, their spouses, and all their family. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Member's Statement 944-19(2): Eulogy for Bill Rowe

Members' Statements

Page 3488

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Our hearts and prayers are with the family. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Replies to budget address day 3 of 7. Member for Nunakput .

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Mr. Jacobson's Reply

Replies To Budget Address

Page 3488

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today's budget address for Nunakput is -- this is what I'd like to see I guess in our budget if we could do anything, roughly 17 million or 4 percent of the GNWT's capital budget will be spent in Nunakput riding. How much of that operational budget is spent in my riding?

In Nunakput, we are in the High Arctic, the most remote communities, coldest darkest region. They don't have basic services that it can be a matter of survival, Madam Speaker. For instance, just last year in Ulukhaktok when the internet went down and a storm approaching, people couldn't access money to pay for gas, food, and basic supplies. Services with internet services need to be looked at in the communities. Service is essential and critical in my riding, Madam Speaker. They are lacking the basic services. We need improvements to ambulance services.

We need improvements to transportation and bus services for the communities. Housing, housing's the biggest concern I have, Madam Speaker, in my riding. It's the health of the residents in our region. It's just overcrowding. We have to fix this issue. We have -- it's so hard on younger families. You know, you have to go live with your parents and you have one bedroom and there's three of you in it, and I have been dealing with constituents like that, and I have a 29 -- I was just told that they're number 29 on the waiting list. That's unacceptable. We have to work together. We can't have lip service no more.

We have to work with the Housing Corporation, not just our government. It's our local community governments too. It's our Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, Inuvialuit Development Corporation, trying to work with the community corp to try to get houses built. We have to look at a different way. All I hear in this last week I've been here are, you know, our government's broke. We have to look at other avenues to find money. Finding that money is working with outside corporations to provide housing for the people.

As long as they could get a long-term lease agreement in place, I'm pretty sure we can go down that road to providing service for our constituents.

When we're reducing our waitlist again, we have to get everything sorted out with our vacancies, housing vacancies, housing improvements, not just waiting for summer. We have to get things done as soon as possible. We can expect our, you know, families are growing, young parents, houses in need, and most of them are major repair, a lot of them. And those houses, we have to address the critical issues.

The critical issues in my riding, again, is housing. We need a business partner. We got to look out and work with the people. The private sector's willing to invest in solutions in my region. It needs to remove the barriers that they create as the Housing Corporation. Businesses need long-term lease commitments and partnerships need solutions in my riding. We need to find ways to take over the mortgages or just give old Housing HAP houses away. You can't pay $140,000 house when you don't even have a flush toilet in some of the communities that we represent. Unacceptable.

We need to find ways, again, Madam Speaker, to get rid of the mortgages that don't need and give it away. Take it out of our housing stock, and then we're able to add.

We need to complete community housing plans like I've been working on for Nunakput. We need to get the housing plan set for each community we represent and getting our housing board, not the local housing board but a board that could work with the community corp and liaison in what's needed in that community, especially elders facilities. Because I got an aging population now, in my riding. I got people with dementia that's really -- I have five or six people in one of my communities that I represent that will be getting moved to Inuvik to long term. And soon as that happens, that's no good because you'll never seen them again.

Housing, Madam Speaker, my primary concern in Nunakput.

After housing, the GNWT needs to rethink our mental health supports. We need to do more counselling available. Feet on the ground, people being hired from outside. Don't have to be government people employees. Empower our own people. Send them out for training to get them empowered to help our own. I think that's one of the best things I heard today in one of our meetings. It's always good to hear somebody from the outside but we still have to work together to try, you know, live together. It's not -- we live it every day, Madam Speaker. Any communities we live in.

When I go home, when I leave Yellowknife, we don't have Starbucks or KFC or no essential -- people call it essential. We have a Northern store, Stanton, we're happy with that and we make do. But at the end of the day, we have to provide service.

Like I said earlier today, our government gets $35,000 per year per person, in the Northwest Territories, and not all of them are getting access to that and being served, you know. 130 litres of water a day; they don't get that, because Housing budgets because it's -- it's the local housing authority, you're -- they're budgeting so much because they get so much to provide service and there's only supposed to be so much in that unit but when you're overcrowded because you have nowhere else to go you're going to take them in. That has to be looked at.

We have to really take a good hard look at what we're doing here. We need that hands-on approach for, you know, in our riding, our high rates of suicide. That has to be looked at, and I'm really happy to hear that there's places that our Ministers willing to work with to get our young youth help and bring people in to help us in our school and that. And so I'm really looking forward to that.

Madam Speaker, we need to make sure our residents have a house to live in and hope in their lives for a future.

My dad always said, you know, you have a roof overhead and you got food in the fridge and you're capable of working, we got it made. You know, we don't want much. But the housing units that we do have have to be liveable and have to, you know, be there -- we have to be there for the people -- we stand here in the House every time and we get, most of the time we don't get getting lip service. I always say lip service because it sounds good here on TV on the mikes but when it's time to get the work done, we have to really push.

But now I know my Minister, the Ministers that I'm working with I know that they want change and I know that they want to do good. So we got 18 months I think left to try to do that, to represent, to get houses, elders facilities, private businesses to come up, and we have to work together for the betterment of the people and making sure that everybody's working together for the common good. And, you know, I just -- in conclusion, Madam Speaker, just the biggest thing is working together, again. Can't say it loud enough. Work together, get it done. No more talking. We got the money there; spend it.

And thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Mr. Jacobson's Reply

Replies To Budget Address

Page 3490

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Replies to budget address. Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South .

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3490

Rocky Simpson

Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, can the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation provide me with some encouragement, and I'd rather hear a "yes", but that her department has a plan for the property previously known as the Disneyland in Hay River?

This land has been sitting vacant for several years and was, as I understand it, to be used for a multi-residential seniors use. And I'd like to see some type of commitment that, you know, at least she'll direct her department to start looking at, you know, a plan to do something with the property. Because if not, let's try and offload it on some private sector that may actually build some houses or build an apartment building. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3490

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3490

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to the Member for the question. The Housing Corporation intends to use this property for future seniors housing development in Hay River.

I want to assure the Member that the Housing Corporation recognizes the importance of working with community leadership and many housing partners to support the seniors housing needs in your community. The Housing Corporation has taken seniors housing study to help inform future investment and is also in the process of completing a comprehensive technical assessment of the Riverview Lodge seniors complex to plan for its eventual replacement in the near future capital plan.

In addition, the Housing Corporation is working towards the development of a community housing plan in Hay River that will also inform the future housing investment in your community. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3490

Rocky Simpson

Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. And I appreciate the response from the Minister. It just sounds like that it's a long ways down the road. And I hope that's not the case.

Madam Speaker, can the Minister tell me when will the apartment building known as the Hay River Singles be replaced with the new complex? It is aging. I know they do work to it but it's almost as old as me. Thank you.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3490

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Based on the current Housing Corporation's unit condition assessment, the corporation anticipates being able to operate this facility for at least another five years. When this facility approaches the end of service of life, the corporation will be considering including the replacement of this asset in a near future capital plan. And I want to assure the Member as well too that, you know, it seems like it's a long time, but also we have to strategically plan when we are replacing these units across the Northwest Territories, and I do realize we have such a huge aging infrastructure across the North. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3490

Rocky Simpson

Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. At 65 years old, I don't have much time left. So I want to see something done.

---Laughter

Madam Speaker, can the Minister please explain to this Assembly the process for her department to take over existing vacant federal government houses in Hay River, and throughout the NWT, and if this is something her department's being -- or has been looking at, and if so, what would the use of these buildings be? Thank you

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3491

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3491

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Hay River South.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3491

Rocky Simpson

Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. And this final question she'll probably answer in a couple days from now, but can the Minister tell this Assembly how has the objectives and direction of the NWT Housing Corporation shifted over the past two and a half years? What changes have been made, and have those changes shown up in the communities? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3491

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hope that my Minister's statement on the new mandate for the Housing Corporation as a part of the comprehensive renewal strategy helps to answer the Member's question.

The new mandate and the renewal strategy responds to many calls for change in how the corporation does business, including a motion from this Assembly from March of last year. While overall of giving more Northerners have access to urgently needed housing remains the same, our new mandate will make us more effective in getting there. We will be building on some success, including the unprecedent level of new housing deliver currently underway. The new mission, values, and vision will help the corporation to be more effective and to sustain these successes in the near future.

I just also wanted to highlight to the Member that this is the largest housing delivery that the Northwest Territories has seen in decades. And born and raised here in the Northwest Territories and still seeing the Webber units that we are still renting, we try to put those forward and ahead so we could plan for repairs for those units to extend the life of them.

To date, we are going to be receiving 90 units -- a 90-unit delivery throughout the Northwest Territories. And I know this is not going to solve our housing issue, but it's a great start for the Northwest Territories to be accessing these units and for the federal government to come and partner and work with us as well too. We wouldn't be able to deliver these units on our own with the budget that we currently do have. And I just want to thank the federal government for working with the Northwest Territories as we continue to lobby them and recognizing our housing crisis in the territories. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 925-19(2): Housing Priorities

Oral Questions

Page 3491

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Great Slave .

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3491

Katrina Nokleby

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would also like to ask questions of the Minister of Housing . In the government renewable strategy process that the Housing Corporation is undertaking, how is the government going to work with the private sector to address the skyrocketing cost of housing in the North? Is there is a plan to diversify where those leases are held or to build new housing units? Thank you.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3491

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3491

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The corporation fully complies with the GNWT's policy by utilizing in an open, fair, and transparent public request for proposal process when procuring its leased housing units. These public requests for proposal are open to potential landlords including development corporations and nonprofit organizations.

And I just also want to include that since I've had the portfolio that we've strategized on how we are going to be looking at the housing delivery in the territories and I just want the Member to just express to her that I understand that, you know, there's a huge need looking at the leases in the territories but also looking at the limited availability that we have here in Yellowknife as well. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3491

Katrina Nokleby

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate that, but I mean if we have an open RFP process but there's only run landlord, it's pretty much guaranteed where it's going, so kind just a comment.

An issue we hear time and again as MLAs is the lack of land that is available for development in the North. So what is the department and the Minister doing to work with GNWT colleagues on getting that land transferred to the cities or the communities for development? Thank you.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3492

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just to comment on the question asked previously that the Housing Corporation is interested in if there are additional landlords that out there besides Northview for the Yellowknife area, that I'm interested in having those conversations and really a description of what it is that they can offer the corporation and the territory as a whole. And also specifically to talk about the question in regards to land, I would have to get back to the Member because there is such levels of transfers that need to happen prior to a transaction such as that happening. So I have to get back to the Member. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

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Page 3492

Katrina Nokleby

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yeah, that's fine; I do recognize that it's a complex situation. As I spoke to earlier in this session, constituents want to see social programming available on site in their building such was the model at YWCA's Rockhill House. So is the department working to identify spaces within existing leases and buildings to be used for integrated service delivery and social programming? Thank you.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

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Page 3492

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to highlight to the Member as well that I will be tabling the strategy for renewal for the Housing Corporation, and we've taken all of the comments that I've heard from the other side and lobbying for housing and to improve the housing programs throughout the Northwest Territories and that we are looking at the reviewing of programs and policies as well, too, and how I can work with my colleagues in delivering those programs to meet the needs of low income housing clients. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

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Page 3492

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Final supplementary, Member for Great Slave .

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

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Page 3492

Katrina Nokleby

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will also be tabling a document today which has some commitments about availability of social programming for youth so I hope that the Minister will take a look at that.

My last question is that in my riding I have two vacant lots where apartment buildings once stood - Rockhill and Polaris. Both were lost to fire significantly reducing the available units within the city. Is there a plan to rebuild on the GNWT-owned Rockhill lot or to purchase the lot of the former Polaris building for social housing? Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thanks.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

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Page 3492

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

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Page 3492

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you to the Member for the question because I have the similar question in Hay River South as well, too, in looking at replacing units throughout the territory but also looking at vacant land. We don't have that budget set aside. We honestly have to forecast for those replacements. With the significant level of affordable housing projects occurring under the federal government programs, such as the National Co-Investment Fund Program, the Housing Corporation's current public housing delivery, its focus on smaller communities for this government.

The corporation is currently updating its analysis on core need investment, needs for new existing stock, and the intent to share this information with all Members as soon as it's available. The corporation has continued to closely monitor the status of its properties in the city and will certainly be looking at replacement aging assets when they reach the end of their service and their life. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 926-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3492

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha .

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

Oral Questions

Page 3492

Frieda Martselos

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, specifically, only one home was destroyed in my riding for the situation of my constituent. So that is why this case was handled differently. Does the Minister believe that any victim of a natural disaster whose home was destroyed should be treated the same regardless of the community they live in? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3492

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3492

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I want to acknowledge that any situation causing the loss of someone's home and belongings is a tragic event. My heart goes out to those who have experienced their losses especially that I've seen during my term. During my term, I've seen a number of fires that have taken homes throughout the Northwest Territories and, you know, the corporation has tried to work with those clients in trying to help them to get them housed immediately.

In this case, where is a wild spread of a natural disaster, the assistance is offered through the disaster assistance policy through MACA. The incident that the Member refers to was deemed not to be widespread natural disaster and therefore that policy did not come into effect.

For the corporation, we are responsible for our units in these situations. So for an example, in Jean Marie, where four Housing Corporation owned-units were impacted, the corporation took responsibility for repairing and replacing those assets. Personal losses from the tenants in those homes would be dealt with by the disaster assistance policy and not by the corporation. For private homes, the primary relief available repair by typically do not replace private homes that are lost in natural or manmade disasters. Examples, House fires.

But like I had said, that the corporation when we hear of these emergencies, the local housing authorities do reach out to the clients and do try to allocate them units as soon as possible and where we would avoid putting them on the waitlist. We would treat this as an emergency. And for somebody who had been on the waitlist for the past three, four, five years, six months, whatever, we would make sure that we address those emergencies accordingly. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

Frieda Martselos

Thebacha

Madam Speaker, can the Minister tell us if the NWT Housing Corp considers natural disasters that destroys people's homes on a case-by-case basis, or is there an uniform approach from the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation in dealing with people's homes destroyed by natural disasters? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We don't have a policy that guides us into those type of emergencies in replacing private homes. We are responsible for our own assets where they're, you know, damaged by natural disasters. The corporation would try to replace those homes or else they would have to go on our next forecasted capital budget for those replacements. We have experienced where we have lost our own assets and we're not able to replace those units as soon as possible.

But then I fully understand with the disaster assistance policy, it had to have been widespread and my apologies to the Member that we did the best that we can to address this issue and trying to find alternative solutions to work with the Member. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

Frieda Martselos

Thebacha

Madam Speaker, can the Minister tell us if the NWT Housing Corp treats victims of natural disasters differently based on the type of disaster they were in or are all victims treated the same across the board? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Housing Corporation has been consistent with our approach to the homes lost through disasters. The corporation does not hold responsibility for the loss of private homes. It is only responsible for the loss of its own properties. But like I had mentioned before that we try to work with those clients and we try to find solutions for them. And to help them to get on to the waitlist, and we avoid that -- we make sure that there is a unit that possibly is vacant that possibly could be available to the individual but according to the policies we do have right now, we don't replace private homes. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Thebacha .

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

Frieda Martselos

Thebacha

Madam Speaker, the Minister's previous answers to this situation always references the income threshold. My constituent would like to be treated fairly and receive a fair rental monthly fee for the unit he is now in. This type of policy is something I would like the Minister to investigate and think out of the box. Does the Minister believe that any NWT resident who is a victim to a natural disaster is deserving of compensation if their home is destroyed? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will follow up with the Member because this is a file that I've been working with and it's just really obviously who I'm speaking about so I would like to follow up with the Member separately. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 927-19(2): Fort Smith Housing Issue

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Page 3493

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Monfwi .

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

Oral Questions

Page 3494

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Monfwi

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Okay, Madam Speaker [Translation] Madam Speaker, this issue I am going to talk about is regarding the people of the Northwest Territories. It is them who wrote this statement. They don't have a lot of job and they don't make very much money. And beyond that, and the people from Housing Corporation, they still have these people's information, they have policies in place and it depends on your income whether you fall into the certain brackets. And they are not able to help them. They have policies like this in place and it's preventing people from being helped which is not right.

In our eyes, we think that this is completely wrong. If they want to help the people in the community, they need to have a policy that helps people equally. And we know that there is a shortage of jobs in the community, and this policy needs to be reviewed. So if they want to help the people in the communities, they need to look at these old houses and some of these people still have old mortgages. We want them to write off these mortgages. So my first question is, Madam Speaker, is it right? Is it accurate? Is it right that some people are still living -- are still living in a rental with no running water?

Is that right? That's my first question, if she thinks this is right for people to live like this. [Translation ends].

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With the current policies that we do have, and I do hear the Member and I pulled the -- I've asked the corporation to provide me with a list of outstanding mortgages that we do have throughout the Northwest Territories. I have said to the corporation that I would like to deal with these files and try to close them up before the end of this government.

But what I have been able to discover was that we do have to follow the Financial Management Act when we are going to be writing off any of these bad debts coming forward, and it does go through a thorough process as well too. So I would have to follow up with the Member for those specific clients as well and I would like to get those further details. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Monfwi

Mahsi. [Translation] I am happy I would say. My second questions would be [Translation ends] assets to ensure it is fair for both party.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Absolutely. Like I had said in my previous responses is that we are working with the 248 mortgage clients throughout the Northwest Territories and trying to strategize in how to work with those debts coming forward, and I would like to meet with the Member privately as well too so I can -- she can provide me a list of those constituents that would need to be addressed from the corporation. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Monfwi

Mahsi. Would the government commit to an ombudsman for the Housing Corporation so people's concern can be reviewed and reported on an independent third party?

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not going to commit to that today. Madam Chair, I would like to meet with the Member privately and we can discuss those files going forward and those concerns and what we could work through and accomplish within the lifetime of this government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Monfwi .

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Monfwi

Mahsi, thank you, I'm looking forward to the meeting. So when is the Housing Corporation policy review going to be completed? Will the MLA and communities have a chance to comment on them? Thank you.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We will be tabling the strategy for renewal for the corporation today, and we do have set timelines and I will be sharing that with standing committee and all MLAs. So I could provide them with a timeline and measure our progress going forward. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 928-19(2): Housing in Whati

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Page 3494

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Nunakput .

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

Oral Questions

Page 3494

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today we'd like to just, you know, find a solution for housing in the community of Paulatuk. We're really in core -- dire need over there because we have been told today we have 29 on the waiting list. 29 applications. Madam Speaker, can the Minister commit to work with the community of Paulatuk for the housing solutions within the life of this Assembly, and that the 28 people that need a home in Paulatuk. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3494

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3494

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I really want to highlight the renewal that I will be tabling today, and it really opens up that dialogue to be working with the Indigenous groups as well and looking at, you know, that we've lobbied the federal government so I know there's federal money coming to the Northwest Territories and in the responsibility for the corporation, I would like to work in partnership in addressing the housing needs at the community level.

Today I can just confirm for the Member that he will be receiving four units in the community of Paulatuk, and I know that doesn't address the housing waitlist as he had mentioned of 29 but I will be working with the Member. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. So Madam Speaker, with the funding that the Indigenous governments got, $34 million into the NWT, how does it work in regards to getting them and holding them accountable for providing -- building units in our communities that need it, or do they just get to sit on the money and pop houses in regards to wherever they think they're needed and we're in dire need now. So how does this government hold the Indigenous governments accountable for housing monies from the federal government? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. And in respect, I would not -- as a housing Minister and part of the territorial government, I would not hold the Indigenous governments accountable in that way. I would like to approach engagement and partnership with the Indigenous groups and trying to find solutions at the ground level.

I'm not sure of the money that they have -- for the federal money that they would be receiving from the federal government. But as we go forward, I would like to work with the Indigenous groups and work on their priorities as well. But not only that, I would like to share the information that we have as a Housing Corporation and what we built in the smaller communities and how we can be working together strategically. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the co-investment fund is $34.5 million. We have to hold our local Indigenous governments accountable. I'm Indigenous, and we need houses in our communities. We need them sooner than later. They already got the monies. They've been sitting on it for a bit. I've been trying to get in contact with my Inuvialuit Regional Development Corporation in regards to where they're at with units. Nothing. How do we hold them accountable, and how do we get houses and units on the ground for people that the money's intended for instead of sitting on it? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With the federal funding that has been allocated to the Indigenous groups, the GNWT had lobbied for more money for the Northwest Territories but also included in the messaging, that it doesn't have to go directly to the Government of the Northwest Territories, that we would support going to the local Indigenous groups. With the distribution that throughout the territory. I don't have that amount of information. I'm not a part of those conversations going forward between the Indigenous groups and the federal government and the further details that are required for that funding.

But what I can say is that for the territories that we had acquired the 25.5 million through the National Co-Investment Fund in trying to address the housing needs throughout the Northwest Territories and through that we were able to provide 60 units throughout the Northwest Territories. But I just want to be very clear that we don't have any involvement with the federal money that's being allocated to the Indigenous groups. But the corporation is willing to be working in partnership in trying to help them deliver those units as well, too. Whatever they may decide. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

What is your point of order.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

Caroline Cochrane

Range Lake

For a Member to be asking a Minister from the GNWT to be accountable to federal money that is given to an Indigenous government or to an organization that the GNWT has no say over. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. There is no point of order. I think the Minister can take the question and answer it accordingly, and we'll move on. Final supplementary. Member for Nunakput .

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

Jackie Jacobson

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I just -- we just need to -- we're just short of houses in the communities, and money's been given. We got like, she said earlier, 34 million. 66 houses for the aboriginal governments and another 30 -- or 60 for our territorial government. A hundred twenty something units, Madam Speaker. We need units on the ground. We can't give lip service no more. We need a timeline to work forward to getting this done. And I'm just trying to hold people accountable. It's our job. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 929-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Member. I didn't hear any question in that so we'll move on. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho .

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I know in the mission statement that the Minister stated there, they used the word "innovation." And innovation is always trying something new and I hope it's just not putting new siding on a House, but. But I really am encouraged by that word and it speaks well to the wood pellet boiler systems that I bring up. And it's not just a word exercise to me but it's to help the Minister and the department in realizing savings and overall there's savings to our bottom line and the budget which we can use elsewhere, Madam Speaker.

I've got the March 29, 2021, letter from the Minister response to my oral question on biomass heating and energy. And it states that the corporation is currently developing its own three-energy action plan. And it goes on to indicate the report will be out last spring. It would have been April-May 2021. Can the Minister update this House as to that report that should have been out in the spring of 2021? Mahsi.

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Page 3495

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would have to get back to the Member. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. And I believe they were saying that the report would have been another year or something in the making, but. Can the Minister update this House -- or I take that one back, Madam Speaker.

There is a proposed hydro transmission line to Fort Providence which will reduce greenhouse gas emissions at the local power plant. Has the department considered this option as electric heat for the rental units in the community? Mahsi.

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Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would have to get back to the Member on that response. But I do want to say that we have had some environmental savings approaches as well through the Northwest Territories. We do have solar projects that were completed in Inuvik, Fort Simpson, Hay River, Fort Liard, and Whati. And also for the biomass, we just completed a biomass project here in Yellowknife, I want to say in June of this year, and it was for eight public housing units at Sissons Court. And we do have a biomass project that has been completed in Aklavik, Hay River -- or sorry, Aklavik, Fort Resolution, N'dilo, Dettah, and Behchoko. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. When contractors or others that provide rental units to the corporation or lease to rent unit, whether it is a single dwelling or an apartment complex, I note that the corporation does not stipulate any direction as to cost savings to the corporation. A lot of new ones where the market housing and also the ones to the RCMP. You know, for the provision of using biomass heating systems to these new units. And I'm just wondering if the Minister will develop a plan to include in the contract documents this provision in all upcoming new units. Mahsi.

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Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't have that level of detail right in front of me. But as we are looking at the 90-unit delivery throughout the Northwest Territories, we did take into consideration energy efficiency and when constructing and delivering of those units. So I would have to follow up with the Member for those further details. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Page 3496

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Deh Cho .

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Page 3496

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My wood pellet boiler system always gets blown off by energy efficiencies type of thing where you're sealing a door or fixing a broken window. But to stimulate local economies in the small communities, will the Minister look at contracting out wood pellet boiler systems to local contractors or development corporations for the supply of wood pellet boiler system heat to NWT Housing Corporation units? Mahsi.

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Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. And I like where the Member is going with this as well, too, and I didn't want to -- yes, I'm going to reference your wood pellet boiler system. And also I need to understand the need and demand, the supply throughout the Northwest Territories. I'm not familiar with that. If we were to move into looking at wood pellet boilers, I don't know what the supply is like in the Northwest Territories. So I'd have to get back to the Member in looking at what units would possibly be able -- that would be eligible for that type of transfer and also the operation and maintenance of that as well. And I'd have to follow up with the Member. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 930-19(2): Housing

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Page 3496

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Oral questions, Member for Frame Lake .

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3496

Kevin O'Reilly

Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I'm just going to say to the Minister, I've got a wood pellet boiler in the House. I'd be happy to show her. But my questions are, again, for the same Minister, Minister responsible for the Housing Corp, and they're about the federal co-investment fund and the NWT carve out. Can the Minister confirm that the NWT carve out funding has now all been accessed and will result in 66 new housing units for small communities? Mahsi Madam Speaker.

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3496

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, the co-investment $60 million has been spent throughout the Northwest Territories. $25.5 million of that funding was applied to by the Housing Corporation therefore we were able to deliver 60 units throughout the Northwest Territories. And additionally, the 34.5 million was applied to and by Indigenous governments.

And with the previous announcements by the federal government, I just want to let the Member know that the recipients of the $34.5 million throughout the territory, the Indigenous groups received were Deh Gah Got'ine Nation, Lutselk'e Dene Nation, Hamlet of Tulita, Yellowknife Dene Nation, and Fort Good Hope Dene, had accessed their $34.5 million. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I want to thank the Minister for that. Of course it's good news, but I wonder about the cost of these units. The average cost of the units appears to be about $520,000. Can the Minister explain how this compares to previous new builds undertaken by the NWT Housing Corporation. Mahsi, Madam Speaker. And I gave a head's up to the Minister so she got these ahead of this afternoon's proceeding.

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Page 3497

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. What I had found with the delivery of these units, they are costing us significantly a lot more than expected and the Housing Corporation has to work very strategic in delivering these units as well and trying to meet the obligations and the intent of the federal government for distributing this federal funding.

The corporation tendering cost results depend on a range of factors such as building location, building designs, the method of construction, and whether these are going to either be stick built or modular. For the corporation's co-investment delivery involves bachelor and one-bedroom units configuring either into four-plexes or duplexes for added cost savings.

With the 60 construction unit delivery primarily modular construction, 520,000 per unit cost has referenced in the corporation's total project budget including the design, site development, and logistics.

As with other in the construction industry, the corporation is observing price escalations in its delivery due to the impacts related to the COVID-19 pandemic and also the availability of materials to be delivered to the territories as well. Those prices have drastically increased. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I want to thank the Minister for that. I was hoping to kind of get an understanding of how these new costs compared to previous new builds, but I want to move on.

As the Minister and this House knows housing is certainly one of my own top priorities and we need to close the gap in terms of core housing need. Can the Minister confirm that the 60 units under the NWT carve out for the Housing Corporation will become part of their inventory and how will this affect operation and maintenance requirement and costs? Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3497

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, this will be adding new stock to our current public housing units on the ground level. The corporation is anticipating being able to deliver these units, new public housing units for the list of communities. I'm pleased to advise that the corporation has received an initial funding allocation in 2022-2023 for the GNWT for the incremental ongoing operation and maintenance funding required associated with this delivery, and this included -- this will be included in the 2022-2023 main estimates. This funding for the additional units will begin in the delivery year of 2022-2023.

That fiscal year is when these units should be constructed and people should be living in them. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3497

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Frame Lake .

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3497

Kevin O'Reilly

Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I want to thank the Minister for that and, of course, probably have a few more questions this afternoon about where it's found in the main estimates. But it's not clear what the long-term plan is for the financing of the Housing Corporation, whether its governance model needs adjusting. Can the Minister briefly discuss the lessons learned from the NWT Co-Investment Fund carve out? Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3497

Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The corporation is currently undergoing the renewal. This will help us inform the annual and long-term business planning of the corporation and the governance element for the renewal conversations. Improved engagement with Indigenous groups, effective partnership capacity of stakeholders to apply for the secure federal funding and continue to work with Canada in partnership to seek innovation and flexibility and financing arrangements will also inform the renewal outcomes.

But looking at the long-term plans for the corporation, I will have to follow up with the Member as well, that, you know, we're just trying to get through this construction season right now. We are wanting to deliver these units on time. But that doesn't stop the corporation from going forward and accessing and lobbying for further funding coming forward.

One of the things that the corporation is wanting to do now is address seniors housing in smaller communities as well, too, so we're having those conversations with the federal government on what type of programming that we should be applying for because we haven't received any further direct funding but except for the -- I think it was $25 million that we had received in the spring and those units are now just rolling out this year of 2022. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 931-19(2): Co-Investment Fund

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Page 3497

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North .

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Question 932-19(2): Housing

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Page 3497

Rylund Johnson

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I recently saw that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation purchased the 24-unit Nordic Arms from Yellowknife School District 1. I was just hoping the Minister could update the House on what the plan for Nordic Arms is both in regards to its existing tenants and likely the transfer of it to public housing. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 932-19(2): Housing

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Page 3498

The Speaker

Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

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Paulie Chinna

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. And I just wanted to talk about the Nordic Arms, that that was a huge opportunity for the corporation and also to try to relieve the leases that we do hold with Northview and trying to address that. And I've heard the conversation and the statements coming from th