R. v. Richens Date:, 2015 BCPC 461

Citation: R. v. Richens Date: 20151120 2015 BCPC 461 File No: 78758-1 Registry: Nanaimo IN THE PROVINCIAL COURT OF BRITISH COLUMBIA REGINA v. RYAN NELSON RICHENS REASONS FOR SENTENCE OF THE HONOURABLE JUDGE J. P. MacCARTHY Counsel for the Crown: J. Kulla Counsel for the Defendant: K. Bradshaw Place of Hearing: Nanaimo , B.C.

Date of Hearing: November 20, 2015 Date of Judgment: November 20, 2015 INTRODUCTION [ 1 ] THE COURT: Ryan Nelson Richens is before me on Information 78758-1. It is an allegation to which he has entered a plea of guilty; the allegation being that on or about the 20th of July 2014, at or near Qualicum Beach, Province of British Columbia, he did commit assault of another person, Garry Richens, and that is contrary to s. 266 of the Criminal Code . [ 2 ] Mr. Ryan Richens is before me for the purposes of rendering a sentence with respect to the offence to which he has entered a plea of guilty.

CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE OFFENCE [ 3 ] Crown has outlined the circumstances. No material dispute has been made with respect to the essential elements of the offence. The allegation is that Mr. Ryan Richens, on the date in question, repeatedly assaulted his father, Garry Richens, who at that time was approximately 72 years of age. [ 4 ] Mr. Ryan Richens himself is a younger man. He, as I understand it, is in his early 40s. [ 5 ] The father and son were residing in the same residence at the time that the offence took place.

It is clear from the report made to Crown counsel and from the statements that have been made today in court that the relationship between the father and the son was extremely strained and at the time in question had reached a very dangerous level of interaction between the two of them. [ 6 ] The interesting aspect of this case is that when the police arrived to investigate the concerns about Mr. Garry Richens that had come from other family members, he evidenced, through his physical condition, an extensive number of bruises and battering, including two black eyes.

But he was somewhat reluctant to provide the police with a full and complete description of the events that took place.

In fact, part of his statement made to police initially gave the police the impression that he was shouldering some of the responsibility for the actions of his son, who had assaulted him. [ 7 ] However, a subsequent statement made to the police clarified that what had taken place clearly was an attack on him by his son, and that the attack had caused him some significant injuries. [ 8 ] I will say, based on my review of the photographic evidence, the injuries that the victim, Garry Richens, sustained were quite severe.

In fact, it is quite difficult to look at those photographs without a certain sense of revulsion, that one individual could do that to another individual. [ 9 ] However, having said that, the background of the family clearly has given rise to feelings of animosity, which for some years caused the accused, Ryan Nelson Richens, to be estranged from his family. However, there was apparently a period of reconciliation at which time he performed dutifully responsibilities for his mother who suffered from a rather tragic and debilitating disease and eventually passed away.

He was responsible for caring for his mother during that period of her disease, and also subsequently caring for his father. [ 10 ] However, their relationship, as a result of this incident, again has become very strained. I would venture to say it could be properly characterized as a rather toxic relationship between the accused and other members of the family as a result of this offence. [ 11 ] The victim impact statement that was provided by the father/victim was provided on September 12, 2014. Portions were read in by Crown Counsel.

It is quite clear that the victim, Garry Richens, has suffered both physically as well as emotionally from this particular attack. He was, as I understand it, hospitalized. He has lost confidence.

He feels cut off from friends. [ 12 ] The victim father expresses, interestingly enough, concern about his son, the accused, and expressed what has properly been described by Crown as feeling very conflicted about the situation; the victim expresses concerns that his son will not only receive whatever necessary treatment he should, but also will start what was described in the victim impact statement as a process of healing.

There also appears in the victim impact statement the same type of motivation which was evident at the time the police first investigated the incident, namely, that was that the father did not want to hurt his son in terms of some sort of penalty that may be imposed upon him. [ 13 ] During the course of submissions made to me, I heard directly from the accused, Ryan Nelson Richens. During her submissions to the court, Ms. Bradshaw, on behalf of the accused, made it abundantly clear that she had to deal with an important issue.

That issue was to explain to Ryan Nelson Richens that notwithstanding that he may have felt that he was the product of a dysfunctional home, and had suffered as a result, that he had to recognize that this was not an excuse, nor a justification for his actions. Ms. Bradshaw makes that point and then I heard directly from Mr. Ryan Nelson Richens. [ 14 ] He expressed remorse for his actions. However, he did state a context in which he said that he simply lost control of himself. However, in doing so, he certainly gave the impression of what is sometimes referred to as victim blaming.

I am not finding that his statement amounts to that, but it has elements of it. [ 15 ] It is clear in my mind that he is going to be having to work through some significant issues in the future in order to come to some sort of reconciliation about his own behaviour both in the context of not only what he says he may have suffered as a child growing up but also in recent years as an adult.

He is also going to have to be able to put his own behaviour and his own response in some context and to seek some reconciliation not only with his family at some later point, but also in terms of how he has acted on this particular occasion.

[ 16 ] Crown is not alleging any prior criminal record and none has been placed before me. CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE OFFENDER [ 17 ] As I indicated above, Ryan Nelson Richens is 43 years of age. He has, apparently, a very strong record of volunteerism and assisting other individuals. He is a person who suffers from some disabilities. Apparently he has a disease known as Charcot-Marie- Tooth Disease; it is an inherited condition.

He has peripheral nerve issues and issues with foot deformity and, as I understand it, is victimized by losing muscle mass, and has problems with numbness in his feet and in his legs that creates problems with his balance. Accordingly, he is a person with disabilities and receives a payment. However, he does supplement his income by caring for an individual and cooking. Apparently he has some skills in that regard. He lives in a rental accommodation in Surrey, British Columbia. [ 18 ] I am told he had a number of friends show up on his behalf today. One of them has remained in court throughout these proceedings.

So, clearly, he has a support network, which will be valuable to him in terms of his rehabilitation. [ 19 ] I am told that drugs and alcohol are not issues for him. However, there is an acknowledgement that at the time this offence did occur he was, unfortunately, combining alcohol with some muscle relaxants, which caused him some behavioural issues on the day in question. [ 20 ] In his direct submission to me, Ryan Nelson Richens tells me that he has always been hard-working. He has worked from an early age.

He worked to obtain his own house at an early age and, as I understand, continues to do volunteer work, both while he was residing with his parents on Vancouver Island and presently continues to do that in his new life that he has created for himself on the mainland. CASE AUTHORITIES [ 21 ] No case authorities have been provided to me by either Crown or defence counsel. SENTENCING POSITIONS Crown’s sentencing position [ 22 ] In fact, I have before me, substantially, a joint recommendation from both Crown and defence.

Notwithstanding that there were significant injuries sustained by the victim in this case, Crown proposes that this matter can appropriately be dealt with by way of a conditional sentence order for a duration of six months followed by two years of probation. [ 23 ] Crown also seeks a s. 110 order for a prohibition with respect to various weapons outlined in that

section of the Criminal Code , for a duration of five years. Crown seeks a DNA order. It being a secondary designated offence. Defence’s Sentencing Position [ 24 ] I understand that there is no issue taken with respect to any of the matters being applied for by Crown other than the fact that a DNA order is opposed in the circumstances, given the fact that Mr. Ryan Nelson Richens is a first-time offender. [ 25 ] The terms and conditions have been outlined by Crown, and again I understand there is no disagreement about the conditions that are being proposed, either for the conditional sentence order or for the two-year probation order. SENTENCING FRAMEWORK [ 26 ]

Section 718 of the Criminal Code sets out the purposes and principles of sentencing. Those may be briefly summarized in the following fashion: The fundamental purpose is to insure that there is a respect for the law and a maintenance of a just and peaceful, safe society.

The important aspects of those purposes and principles of sentencing are to denounce unlawful conduct; to deter the offender and other persons from committing offences; to separate offenders from society, where necessary, to assist in rehabilitating offenders; to provide reparations for harm done to victims or to the community; and to promote a sense of responsibility in offenders and acknowledgement of the harm done to victims and to the community. [ 27 ] I note parenthetically that since the commission of this offence that there have been amendments to s. 718 of the Criminal Code .

However, given the timing of this offence, I am relying upon the provisions of the Criminal Code at the time that the offence was committed. However, I can say again, parenthetically, that the amendments that are now contained in s. 718 would be matters which would normally, in any event, be taken into account by a sentencing judge. [ 28 ] Under s. 718.1 the fundamental principle is that a sentence must be proportionate to the gravity of the offence and the degree of responsibility of the offender. [ 29 ] Under s. 718.2 there are other sentencing principles that the court must take into consideration.

The ones that are applicable here is that I must take into account aggravating or mitigating circumstances relating to the offence or the offender. I must also take into account the evidence about the impact that the offence has had, and specifically whether it has had a significant impact on the victim, considering the age and other personal circumstances, including the health and financial situation of a victim. [ 30 ] The other provisions that I must be mindful of are that the sentence should be similar to sentences imposed on similar offenders for similar offences committed in similar circumstances.

I must also be mindful that an offender should not be deprived of liberty if less restrictive sanctions may be appropriate in the circumstances. I must also consider all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances. They should be considered for all offenders, with particular attention to the circumstances of Aboriginal offenders. CONDITIONAL SENTENCE ORDERS

[ 31 ] With respect to a conditional sentence order, I note that that this is provided under s. 742 of the Criminal Code , and in particular 742.1.

I should say that the conditional sentence order is, in fact, a jail sentence that is served within the community. [ 32 ] Before imposing a conditional sentence order, it is important that the court satisfy itself that the service of the sentence in the community would not endanger the safety of the community, and would be consistent with the fundamental purposes and principles of sentencing as set out in s. 718 to 718.2, to which I have referred to above. [ 33 ] There are also certain statutory requirements with respect to the absence of a minimum term of imprisonment.

In this case, the Crown has proceeded summarily and accordingly a number of the statutory restrictions on the imposition of a conditional sentence order do not apply. Nor is this an offence that is statutory prohibited under s. 742.1 (

f) of the Criminal Code . [ 34 ] Having considered that provision of the Criminal Code , I am satisfied that there is no restriction on the imposition of a conditional sentence order. The sentence that is being proposed in this case is certainly within a range which would be justifiable for a first-time offender and it would be a fit sentence. Accordingly, there is nothing that would take the length of the sentence outside of the operative provisions for a conditional sentence order in this matter. [ 35 ] The Supreme Court of Canada, in the decision of R. v.

Proulx , 2001 SCR 61, sets out the principles for a conditional sentence order. A few of these are noteworthy, and I wish to place them on the record for the benefit of not only Mr. Ryan Richens, but also for the victim. [ 36 ] A conditional sentence order, unlike probation, where the primary goal is a rehabilitative sentence or a tool for achieving that goal, is intended to address both punitive and rehabilitative objectives. Accordingly, it is often said that a conditional sentence order should generally include punitive conditions that restrict the offender's liberty.

Conditions such as house arrest or curfew would be the norm. [ 37 ] When considering the safety of the community, I must be satisfied that the community would not be endangered; and that is merely one of three prerequisites for the imposing of a conditional sentence order. It is not the prime consideration. [ 38 ] The safety of the community refers only to the threat posed by the specific offender and not to a broader risk of undermining the respect of the law. It includes consideration of the risk of any criminal activity, including property offences.

In considering the danger to the community, as the sentencing judge, I must consider the risk of the offender re-offending and the gravity of that damage that could ensue. Particularly in the case of violent offenders, a small risk of very harmful future crime may warrant a finding that the prerequisite has not been met. Therefore, the risk should be assessed in light of the conditions that could be attached to the sentence.

Therefore, as it is often said, the danger that the offender might pose may be reduced to an acceptable level through the imposition of appropriate conditions. [ 39 ] It is also noteworthy that a conditional sentence is often said by the courts as being able to provide a significant amount of denunciation, particularly when onerous conditions are imposed and the term of the sentence is longer than what may have been imposed as a jail sentence for a similar type of offence, or custodial time is being served. [ 40 ] It is also noteworthy that when the objectives of rehabilitation, reparation, and promotion of a sense of responsibility are being sought, they may be realistically achieved by a conditional sentence, and it will likely be an appropriate sanction, subject to considerations of denunciation and deterrence.

On the whole, I am satisfied that in this case a conditional sentence order is appropriate. Aggravating Factors [ 41 ] In dealing with this matter, Crown has outlined a number of aggravating factors which they say should apply. I accept those as being the primary aggravating factors. They include the fact that given the age of the victim here that the physical altercation and the injuries sustained by the victim amounts to elder abuse.

I also acknowledge that there was an imbalance of power between the somewhat vulnerable victim and the accused in this case. [ 42 ] The beating itself was humiliating to the victim. The process that the victim had to go through in terms of this matter has also been quite emotionally draining. The process has been drawn out partly because the accused did not have legal counsel at one point; this is, as I understand it, the second trial date. [ 43 ] Crown says, and I do not disagree, that the behaviour in this case is inexcusable, notwithstanding any of the dysfunctions in the family dynamics.

Mitigating Factors [ 44 ] I again acknowledge that this accused has no record. I do acknowledge he has entered a guilty plea which, although not early in the proceedings, has certainly saved the victim and other family members from testifying. [ 45 ] I am also accepting that Mr. Ryan Richens, the accused, has expressed some genuine remorse.

Although, as I indicated in my earlier comments, that is somewhat tempered by, I am suggesting, his over-reliance of some of the unhappiness of his childhood and some of the issues that he faced growing up in what apparently was a very dysfunctional and somewhat toxic family setting. ANALYSIS [ 46 ] On the whole of the circumstances of this matter and on the whole of the statutory provisions of the Criminal Code and the application of them, as referred to above, I am satisfied that this is an appropriate matter for the use of the conditional sentence order followed by a period of probation. [ 47 ] Mr.

Ryan Richens has been in court today for an extended period. He has heard me say to several people, and I will repeat on

the record in this particular matter, that when the court orders an individual to do something, that is something that must be done. It cannot be treated as something in the nature of an inconvenient suggestion made by the court. Failure to abide by the terms of a conditional sentence order may result in the Crown seeking to collapse a conditional sentence order. That is the default position as set out in R. v. Proulx . That has been explained to Mr. Richens and I understand that he is aware of that. [ 48 ] Similarly it can be said with respect to the probation order.

A failure to comply with the probation order may very well result in further charges being brought against him for breaching that court order. So, again, the provisions of a probation order are things that must be done and cannot, as I indicated before, be treated as an inconvenient suggestion. [ 49 ] Mr. Richens, if you could stand, please. CONCLUSIONS AND SENTENCING [ 50 ] This matter will be dealt with by way of the recommended submission of Crown and Defence. Accordingly, I am going to impose upon you a conditional sentence order. It will be of a duration of six months.

The terms of the conditional sentence order will be as follows, utilizing the precedent picklist and starting with number 300. [ 51 ] You shall keep the peace and be of good behaviour. You shall appear before the court when required to do so by the court. You shall report in person to a conditional sentence supervisor. I am going to say no later -- I am going to pause here for a moment. I think it best he reports in Surrey. [ 52 ] MS. BRADSHAW: I would -- was going to ask Your Honour that, 'cause it's going to be too late today and he says he can't afford to stay after tomorrow.

So he is at the Surrey South Community Correctional Office. [ 53 ] THE COURT: All right. [ 54 ] MS. BRADSHAW: He has an appointment on December the 15th, but if you'd like him to report on Monday or Tuesday he can. [ 55 ] THE COURT: I think he should report soon. [ 56 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Yes. [ 57 ] THE COURT: All right. So the Surrey South -- [ 58 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Surrey South Community Corrections. He's got a piece of paper if you'd like to see it, with the address. [ 59 ] THE COURT: All right. I think that would be helpful to get the documentation. [ 60 ] MS. BRADSHAW: It's this big. [ 61 ] THE COURT: Thank you.

So he will report, I am going to say no later than 4 p.m. Monday, November 23rd, 2015, in person at the Surrey South Community Corrections office, Unit 100 - 13545 64th Avenue, Surrey, British Columbia. So that is an in-person reporting and thereafter report as and when directed by your supervisor and in the manner directed by your supervisor. [ 62 ] You shall remain within the Province of British Columbia, unless written permission to go outside the jurisdiction is obtained from the court or the supervisor.

You shall notify the court or the supervisor in advance of any change of name or address, and promptly notify the court or the supervisor of any change of employment or occupation. [ 63 ] Number 305 - On first reporting to the supervisor you shall inform him or her of your present residential address and telephone number. [ 64 ] Number 306 - You shall not change your address or telephone number at any time without first obtaining the written consent of the supervisor. [ 65 ] Number 308 - You shall obey the rules and regulations of your residence. [ 66 ] Number 311 - Curfew.

You shall obey a curfew by being inside your residence between the hours of 9 p.m. and 6 p.m. each day except as follows: (

a) with the written consent of the supervisor. Such consent is to be given, however, only for compelling personal, family, or employment reasons; or (

b) when travelling directly to or returning directly from your place of employment, or while in the course of such employment. You shall provide your supervisor with written details of your employment, including hours of work, the name of your employer, and contact particulars for your employer if requested to do so.

I will include (c), in the company of a person approved of in advance by the supervisor. [ 67 ] Number 315 - You shall present yourself at the door to your residence when the supervisor or any peace officer attends there for the purpose of determining your compliance with the curfew arrest conditions of this order. [ 68 ] Number 319 - You shall have no communication or contact, directly or indirectly, with Garry Richens, or Cari -- and I think I wrote this down correctly. C-a-r-i, is that correct? [ 69 ] MR.

KULLA: Correct. [ 70 ] THE COURT: Richens. [ 71 ] Number 327 - You shall not possess or consume any alcohol or any controlled substance within the meaning of s. 2 of the

Controlled Drugs and Substances Act except as prescribed for you by a licenced physician. [ 72 ] Number 331 - You shall not enter any liquor store, beer and wine store, bar, pub, lounge, or nightclub. [ 73 ] Number 332 - You shall not possess any pipes, syringes, or other drug paraphernalia. [ 74 ] Number 323 - You shall not attend at or be within 200 metres of any place which you know to be the residence, school, or workplace of Garry Richens or Cari Richens. [ 75 ] Number 336 - You shall not possess any weapon as defined in s. 2 of the Criminal Code . [ 76 ] Number 351 - You shall attend, participate in and successfully complete any assessment, counselling, or program as directed by your supervisor, which may include (

a) anger management; (

b) forensic assessment, counselling or treatment through the Forensic Psychiatric Centre or any other facility or program designated by your conditional sentence supervisor. In any case, you should comply with all rules and regulations of any such assessment, counselling or program. [ 77 ] I have all the conditions that were being sought under the conditional sentence order, is that correct? [ 78 ] MR. KULLA: You do. I may have misheard. Did Your Honour mean 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. for the curfew? [ 79 ] THE COURT: Yes. [ 80 ] MR. KULLA: Okay. [ 81 ] THE COURT: Is that what -- I think I said -- [ 82 ] MS.

BRADSHAW: I think you said p.m., 6 p.m. [ 83 ] THE COURT: Oh, did I? [ 84 ] MR. KULLA: That is -- you said 9 a.m. to 6 p.m., so I just wanted to make sure. [ 85 ] THE COURT: Oh, I meant 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. [ 86 ] MR. KULLA: Correct. Okay. Thank you. [ 87 ] THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. If I misspoke I apologize. [ 88 ] Then there will be a two-year probation order which will run after the completion of the conditional sentence order. The terms and conditions will be quite similar, but with some notable changes. [ 89 ] So using number 200, you shall keep the peace and be of good behaviour.

You shall appear before the court when required to do so by the court. You shall notify the court or your probation officer in advance of any change in name or address, and promptly notify the court or the probation officer of any change of employment or occupation. [ 90 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Excuse me, Your Honour, might he sit down [indiscernible/drops voice]? [ 91 ] THE COURT: Oh, yes, please. [ 92 ] Number 202 - Within 72 hours of completion of your conditional sentence you shall report in person to the probation office, and it will be the same probation office at the same address.

So report in person to that office and thereafter you shall report as directed. [ 93 ] Number 205 - When first reporting to the probation officer you shall inform him or her of your residential address and telephone number. [ 94 ] Number 206 - I am going to make this slightly different. You shall not change your address or telephone number without first notifying the probation officer. So it is written consent under the CSO.

It is notifying the probation officer in advance under the probation order. [ 95 ] There will be no curfew condition. [ 96 ] Number 219 - There shall be the same no communication or contact, directly or indirectly, provision for the same two individuals, being Garry Richens and Cari Richens. That will be 219. [ 97 ] Number 227 - You shall not possess or consume any alcohol or any controlled substances defined in s. 2 of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act except as prescribed for you by a physician. [ 98 ] Number 230 - I am not going to put the no go to the liquor stores.

If he wants to go out with friends, but as long as he is not drinking, that will be satisfactory. [ 99 ] Number 232 - Shall not possess any pipes, syringes, or other drug paraphernalia. [ 100 ] So I am not putting in 231; that is not going in. [ 101 ] Number 236 - You shall not possess any weapon as defined in s. 2 of the Criminal Code .

[ 102 ] He does not have guns or anything like that at home? [ 103 ] Counselling, number 251, will be in the same form. You shall attend, participate, and successfully complete any assessment, counselling or program as directed by the probation officer, which may include (

a) anger management; (

b) a forensic assessment, counselling, or treatment through the Forensic Psychiatric Centre, or such other facility or program as may be designated by your probation officer. You shall comply with all rules and regulations of any such assessment, counselling, or program. [ 104 ] I believe those are all the conditions that had been discussed and agreed to. [ 105 ] That leaves -- is a s. 110 order mandatory in this case? [ 106 ] MR. KULLA: No. [ 107 ] THE COURT: It is not. Weapons were not used in this case and he is going to be under a no weapons prohibition throughout his sentence.

I do not see the utility, necessarily, of a separate s. 110 order in this case. [ 108 ] MR. KULLA: It's a shall consider whether it's desirable. [ 109 ] THE COURT: I have considered and it is - [ 110 ] MR. KULLA: And so -- in stated reasons, so. [ 111 ] THE COURT: There is going to be at least two and a half years, or thereabouts, where he hopefully will obtain the necessary treatment. So I do not view the s. 110 order as having significant utility over and above his sentence. So I will not make that order. [ 112 ] Can you just direct me to the

section regarding DNA? It is around 487 something, isn't it? [ 113 ] MR. KULLA: 487.05(1). [ 114 ] THE COURT: Is it 487? Yes, it is under 487.05(1). [ 115 ] MR. KULLA: It's under secondary designated offences. [ 116 ] THE COURT: Yes. So is that the next section? [ 117 ] MR. KULLA: Yes. It's 487.05 -- Your Honour, 487.04 is the definition

section preceding it, and under secondary designated offence (c)(vii). And then, Your Honour, the test is 487.051(3). [ 118 ] THE COURT: Yes. I just found that, or I directed myself to that. So under that particular

section the test is I must consider whether or not it is in the best interests of the administration of justice to make that order, and deciding whether to make a -- no actually is it (3)? [ 119 ] MR. KULLA: Yes (3)(b): a person who is convicted, discharged under

section 730 or found guilty under the [YCJ] or the [YOA], of an offence committed at any time . . . if that offence is a secondary designated offence [which it is] when -- [ 120 ] THE COURT: Sorry, so we are at 487.05? [ 121 ] MR. KULLA: 487.051(3). Do you have the 2016 Code ? [ 122 ] THE COURT: I do. [ 123 ] MR. KULLA: Page 953. [ 124 ] THE COURT: Oh, I see, okay. I see what it -- it is under the .051(1), right. [ 125 ] MR. KULLA: Sub (3). [ 126 ] THE COURT: Sub (3). [ 127 ] MR. KULLA: Yeah. [ 128 ] THE COURT: Yes. But it is -- the subsection is .051, correct? [ 129 ] MR.

KULLA: That's correct. [ 130 ] THE COURT: Sub (3)(c)? [ 131 ] MR. KULLA: Sub (b). [ 132 ] THE COURT: Sub (b). [ 133 ] MR. KULLA: Yeah. [ 134 ] THE COURT: So the test is I have to consider the person's criminal record. In this case Mr. Richens does not have a criminal

record. Given his lack of any criminal record and given the fact that this appears to have been, although serious, an isolated incident, I am of the view that it is not necessary to make the DNA order, having regard for the privacy and the security of this particular individual and in these particular circumstances. So I am going to decline to make the DNA order on these particular circumstances. [ 135 ] MR. KULLA: Thank you, Your Honour. [ 136 ] THE COURT: All right. Victim fine surcharge? [ 137 ] MS.

BRADSHAW: The regular time. [ 138 ] THE COURT: Regular two months to pay from completion of the conditional sentence order, I believe it will run from then. [ 139 ] That leaves the issue -- there is one remaining outstanding charge. Is Crown dealing with that? [ 140 ] MR. KULLA: A stay of proceedings. [ 141 ] THE COURT: That will be on the breach charge. That is the -- [ 142 ] MR. KULLA: 2A. [ 143 ] THE COURT: 2A, thank you [indiscernible/background noise]. Anything further? [ 144 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Could I just clarify? He has his own sort of cooking knives because he does do cooking.

Would that fall under the weapons. . . [ 145 ] THE COURT: Well, if you want me to clarify that, if you -- I am not sure if the -- is we usually make a separate order for the knives, and if the knives are in issue I can deal with that specifically by making a "no knife" except for employment or for cooking food. [ 146 ] MR. KULLA: I think that it was "no weapons" was imposed. [ 147 ] THE COURT: Yes. [ 148 ] MR. KULLA: So a knife's -- [ 149 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Under s. 2. [ 150 ] MR. KULLA: -- only a weapon if it's used as a weapon. [ 151 ] THE COURT: All right. [ 152 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Oh. So we're okay. [ 153 ] MR.

KULLA: So it wasn't a "no knives" order. [ 154 ] THE COURT: Yes. All right. [ 155 ] MR. KULLA: So I think he should be fine. [ 156 ] THE COURT: Okay. Well, I -- [ 157 ] MS. BRADSHAW: Thank you. [ 158 ] THE COURT: If you are satisfied with that we will leave it as it is, and it is just the "no weapons".